Saddam Hussein Captured Alive in Tikrit

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By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer


BAGHDAD, Iraq — American forces captured a bearded Saddam Hussein as he hid in the cellar of a farmhouse near his hometown of Tikrit, ending one of the most intensive manhunts in history. The arrest, eight months after the fall of Baghdad, was carried out without a shot fired and was a huge victory for U.S. forces.

"Ladies and gentlemen, we got him," U.S. administrator L. Paul Bremer told a news conference. "The tyrant is a prisoner."







Bremer said that Saddam was captured Saturday at 8:30 p.m. in a cellar in the town of Adwar, 10 miles from Tikrit, ending one of the most intense manhunts in history.

In the capital, radio stations played celebratory music, residents fired small arms in the air in celebration and others drove through the streets, shouting, "They got Saddam! They got Saddam!"

At the news conference announcing his capture, U.S. forces aired a video showing a bearded Saddam being examined by a doctor holding his mouth open with a tongue depressor, apparently to get a DNA sample.

Then a video was shown of Saddam after he was shaved.

Iraqi journalists in the audience stood, pointed and shouted "Death to Saddam!" and "Down with Saddam!"

"The captive has been talkative and is being cooperative," Sanchez said. Saddam was being held at an undisclosed location, and U.S. authorities have not yet determined whether to hand him over to the Iraqis for trial. Iraqi officials want him to stand trial before a war crimes tribunal created last week.

Two other Iraqis were also arrested in the raid and two AK-47 assault rifles, a pistol and $750,000 in $100 bills were seized, Sanchez said.

Sanchez described Saddam's demeanor during the arrest, saying he seemed "a tired man. Also I think a man resigned."

Forces from the 4th Infantry Division along with Special Forces captured Saddam, the U.S. military said. There were no shots fired or injuries in the raid, called "Operation Red Dawn," said Lt. Gen. Richardo Sanchez.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair welcomed Saddam's capture.

"This is very good news for the people of Iraq. It removes the shadow that has been hanging over them for too long of the nightmare of a return to the Saddam regime," he said in a statement released by his office.

Trapped in the cellar, Saddam was in a six-to-eight-foot-deep "spider hole" that had been camouflaged with bricks and dirt. The soldiers saw the hole, investigated and found him inside, Sanchez said.

The video showed an air vent and fan inside the hole to allow Saddam to remain hidden for an extended period.

In Baghdad, shop owners closed their doors, worried that all the shooting would make the streets unsafe.

"I'm very happy for the Iraqi people. Life is going to be safer now," said 35-year-old Yehya Hassan, a resident of Baghdad. "Now we can start a new beginning."

Earlier in the day, rumors of the capture sent people streaming into the streets of Kirkuk, a northern Iraqi city, firing guns in the air in celebration.

"We are celebrating like it's a wedding," said Kirkuk resident Mustapha Sheriff. "We are finally rid of that criminal."

"This is the joy of a lifetime," said Ali Al-Bashiri, another resident. "I am speaking on behalf of all the people that suffered under his rule."

In Tikrit, U.S. soldiers from the 4th Infantry Division, the unit that is responsible for security in Saddam's hometown, were smoking cigars after hearing the news of Saddam's capture.

Despite the celebration throughout Baghdad, many residents were skeptical.

"I heard the news, but I'll believe it when I see it," said Mohaned al-Hasaji, 33. "They need to show us that they really have him."

Ayet Bassem, 24, walked out of a shop with her 6-year-old son.

"Things will be better for my son," she said. "Everyone says everything will be better when Saddam is caught. My son now has a future."

"This success brings closure to the Iraqi people. We now have final resolution. Saddam Hussein will never return to a position of power from which he can punish, terrorize, intimidate and exploit the Iraqi people as the did for more than 35 years," Sanchez said.

After invading Iraq on March 20 and setting up their headquarters in Saddam's sprawling Republican Palace compound in Baghdad, U.S. troops launched a massive manhunt for the fugitive leader, placing a $25 million bounty on his head and sending thousands of soldiers to search for him.

Saddam's sons Qusai and Odai -- each with a $15 million bounty on their heads -- were killed July 22 in a four-hour gunbattle with U.S. troops in a hideout in the northern city of Mosul. The bounties were paid out to the man who owned the house where they were killed, residents said.

A Governing Council member, Jalal Talabani, told Iran's official news agency, IRNA, that Saddam's detention will bring stability to Iraq.

"With the arrest of Saddam, the source financing terrorists has been destroyed and terrorist attacks will come to an end. Now we can establish a durable stability and security in Iraq," Talabani was quoted as saying.

HURRAY!!!!

The timeline of the future...

War on terror considered over...

Democrat comes into office...

The RIAA tries to make a big fuss...

RIAA gets the beatdown as the people take their focus from Iraq, back to the US...

Let's pray this comes true...

now we can finally learn which name he's been posting under and kick his ass.

Let's hope that the guerilla war will start to fizzle out so that we can get on with rebuilding Iraq and then, by late next year, have most (if not all) of our military out.

Yahoo! And don't forget that more and more evidence has come out in the past few months of cooperation between Al-Qaeda and Saddam. The British papers published evidence that Mohammad Atta, a lead terrorist in the World Trade Center attack, was in Baghdad for training just prior to 9-11. Saddam was part of the axis of evil, and though Bush was ridiculed for saying so, he was right, he acted, and the process of bringing to justice those responsible for 9-11 and those in league with them will continue for a long time.

Because of this victory, and because of gerrymandering issues (see the December 8 issue of New Yorker magazine), the Republican party will most likely be in charge of Congress and the White House for at least four more years.

We'd better start working on arguments that appeal to conservative Republicans -- such as issues like the "original intent" of the founding fathers on copyright. tactically, I think this is about the only hope this movement has in Washington.

Outside Washington, we need to continue to educate consumers about the way RIAA companies really treat artists, and make the boycott more widely known.

Have there been any polls done on campuses to see how effectively we are raising awareness there, and what effect we may be having on buying behavior?

I heard he may have downloaded some RIAA copyrighted tunes....

Uggh, 4 more years of Bush? Time to move to Canada. And that 'evidence' about Mohammad Atta was proven to be questionable intelligence MONTHS ago, even Bush came out and said that there were no definete links between AlQaeda and Saddam.

Code,

If he did, the RIAA would've found him quickly to serve that subpoena. Now his sons probably DLed copyrighted tunes, because we KNOW what happened to them. ;^)

Without starting a political flamewar, this doesn't bode well for the Democrat front runners for 2004. A rising economy & the capture of Saddam leaves little for them to criticize Bush about, but I'm sure they'll find something.

Little room? How about the Patriot Act? How about that schools are so underfunded that some have dropped to only 4 days a week? How about the fact that millions of people who had no problem with the US before are now burning our flags all over the world? Until you've traveled, you really dont know just how reviled we are. Yes, even in 'free' countries.

Now how can they prove that this is the real Saddam, I mean the guy had like 10 body doubles or something. lordperrin I think John is right because most of the American public has no clue what the Patriot Act is and they really dont care.

Unfortunately, he will be tried by the Iraqis instead of an international tribunal. That means that he will not be able to put forth evidence of all the help that the Reagan and Bush1 administrations gave him so that he could be the tyrannical and murderous thug that he was.

lordperrin the patriot act was passed by both Dems and Repubs. Both parties share the blame equally for this assault on our personal liberties. With any luck, as things keep dying down overseas and as the economy continues to improve, people will see the patriot act for what it is, which is a poor bandaid for the public's fear of terrorism, and repeal it.

I say congratulations to the US Army! Job well done. Hopefully this is another step in the right direction to getting your service men and women back home. ~~pepe~~

HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN?

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US -

SADDAM HAS NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE, MAKE HIM SUFFER!

HA HA HA

----------

We should do the same for the RIAA when they are shut down! Maybe have a big anti-riaa party in Washington? hehehe

The Iraqi minister for information replied to claims of Saddam's capture "These are despicable lies. The American infidel is lying and showing an obvious fake Saddam. They shall all burn in the lord almighty Alah's armpits for a thousand years! Oh yes and one other thing. There are no allied soldiers in Baghdad"

Let saddam out to play with some of the RIAA executives. he he he he he

pepe512000. I concur ........ one big rat down and many more vermin to go ........

Well lets just kill him stuff the body and give it to the bush familly in exchange for never participating in any political process ever again.

Saddam Captured, whooptee doo.. so now what? Where the fuck are those WEAPONS? I believe that this is just more political bullshit spewed from Pennsylvania Ave to brainwash us into thinking that the Bush regeime policy is actually working. We captured a bad man, but what's missing is the rationale for going to war in the first place, which everyone seems to have forgotten.

It particularly looks more than coincidental that Saddam was found just 1 day after the Halliburton scam was just starting to make headlines.

With Saddam captured or not, Bush has an agenda.. to get re-elected. Yes, the same patriot-act, big-business pro-RIAA bush who facilititates this mess with his cronies Michael Powell and his father mr. Puppet Powell.

Saddam's caputre is nothing more than a piece of bread to hold over the starving pigeons for another election year.

Everyone may be cheering in the streets becuase Saddam's nabbed, but while everyone's in the streets, their homes are being robbed of freedoms, one item at a time.

btw.. Amen purfus

couldnt have come at a better time thanks american troops and all the allies that have helped. as far as the democrats and the other countries that are working against the U.S. all i can say is HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

lordperrin, you simply havent kept up with the news. The Atta item was not disproved months ago, it is a fairly recent item. Also, a leaked memo from our intelligence services to a senate committee gave evidence of numerous links between Al-Qaeda and Saddam, confirmed by multiple sources.

Anyone think there will be any evidence Saddam was financing the RIAA?

Now that Saddam is under the coalition thumb, doccuments discovered in Saddam's hidey hole will expose the RIAA as an activated Al-Qaeda cell bankroled by the Baathists whose mission is to perform non-violent acts of terrorism on the citizens of the USA.

No, it wasn't the troops. It was the RIAA. They caught him downloading Justin's new single via a satellite link.
Honest...

"The Atta item was not disproved months ago, it is a fairly recent item. Also, a leaked memo from our intelligence services to a senate committee gave evidence of numerous links between Al-Qaeda and Saddam, confirmed by multiple sources."

Care to back that up?

people seriously need to be quiet about schools i went to private schools my whole life and my parents paid half of what it cost to send me to private school to school taxes how ridiciulus, stfu and goto a real school or deal with public schooling, i understand schooling is important but we aren't a socialist society we're not supposed to be giving hand outs to people that haven't earned any (ie welfare) and for all the people that wanna complain about how schools are why don't you do something about it and donate your time or money? i didnt think so

So you're basically saying that public school is an educational equivelant to welfare? You sir, are a class A fuckwit.

HAHA, darkened. The world through the eyes of someone who can afford to segregate him/her -self from the poor. To be blunt I can't justify a thing you said. You shut the F$$$ and go to a real school, cuz that one daddy bought for you is far from real. And what makes you think a socialist society shouldn't provide a good education to its people? It would be a pretty in-effective society if the majority of it were numb as a brick now wouldn't it? You might enjoy standing on your money now but what are you gonna do when all the little people are stupid, sickly and can't run your mechines anymore? Can't serve you food or clean your yard. People do not seriously need to be quite about anything.

Here's a qoute right off the U.S. Department of Education's homepage.

"ED currently administers a budget of about $63 billion per year and operates programs that touch on every area and level of education. The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve nearly 15,000 school districts and more than 53 million students attending over 92,000 public schools and more than 27,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan, and work-study assistance to more than 8 million postsecondary students."



Rural and Low-Income Schools Program




Notice how they do not imediatly break up the funding towards public and private schools but you can rest assured that deviding the total budget by the number of public and private schools will not give you an accurite answer to how much money per school. The distribution is weighted heavily towards the private sector. I think it is great that all those things are afford but how much money has been spent on the "war"? A whole lot more than 63 billion and how much more is to come? Healthcare isn't in a much better position. Excuse me for suggesting the United States should offer its people education and healthcare, but I am and I will continue to do so. Especially when we can go blow trillians over seas.

If you really interested browse around on the departments web page.
http://www.ed.gov/index.jhtml

Check this excel file out;

Funds for State Formula-Allocated and Selected Student Aid Programs, by Program

And look under the Rural and Low-Income Schools Program. You'll find the numbers are pretty small, but the important thing to note is that the actuall figures are much higher than the projections. This means that the need for funding in that sector was not met. And it was obviously very short otherwise they would not have been in a situation that could make the feds reconsider the need and give them more than the estimates deem is nessesary. It's not easy to get more money from the feds in this country, not for any sector.

Yes we need a military to protect our selves. No we should not spend EVERYTHING on education alone. We do however need a future as well and I don't think the world would spin very far if the only people smart enough to work were those that got to go to private school. The real funny thing is that if we gave more to our society we might not have as much terrorism.

To sum up I don't agree with you one bit darkened, and I hope to god I'm not the only one here.

Well put lordperrin...

"The torture chambers and the secret police are gone forever."

But isnt the RIAA the "secret police?"

The comparison I was making to welfare and schooling is why should some one have to pay for others to go to school when they do not go to public schools in the first place. Which correlates to welfare as why should one be responsible for paying for others to not work when they are out working themselves...

And please don’t try to argue that welfare is needed because the people on it have no other means to survive because there is really no way more than 2% of the people on welfare honestly deserve it.

And about your argument of spending more on the war than on schooling I am actually perfectly fine with that. Protecting the lives of Americans (which includes me) seems to be a little bit more important than something that will never benefit me in any way as from what I've seen I will never allow my kids to attend a public school. The timeless law of "you get what you pay for" applies to everything including education. If it doesn't why does Harvard cost 8x your community college? So if you'd rather other people be paying for your kids education so you can save money send them to public school.

Like Iraq was any threat to us to begin with.....

And feel free to personally attack me because it does not bother me at all. It only proves you can not attempt to form a valid disagreement with my statements and therefore resort to name calling.

And how would increasing socialistic programs decrease terrorism? Terrorism is fueled by hate of Americans actually having a good life to live, that the only thing the terrorists have to look forward is their honorable hari kari missions....

Darkened - The easiest reason people with money need to pay taxes for other people's education and occasionally food is because education and food are lot more expensive than guns, and there are a lot fewer rich than poor people in the world.

More usefully, though perhaps beyond your grasp, (they don't teach you economics or history in rich people's schools?) it's the great depression problem. Short aanswer - as soon as too many people can't meet their basic needs, the entire system collapses and takes you down with it. That's a very simplified answer but if you really wanted to understand, with all that private schooling you could have managed to develop a finer understanding yourself.

My question is, why do those of us who worked to pay for and learn in school have spend our time explaning these things to the princesses who couldn't be bothered to stop piddling around with their ponies and cocaine? A second round of the 1930's and you can bet the economic bottom won't settle for a lame New Deal, the corporations and rich would be up that stanky creek...

"And how would increasing socialistic programs decrease terrorism?"

I've wondered this. How would it help anything at all? These damn people want everybody in America to find out what it's like to live in Cuba or China.

Gotta love those democr... I mean socialists.

As far as spending the money on schooling - Are you saying that that's where it would have been spent if there was no war? That's the last thing we need is another naive hippie.

Why don't we go to Iraq and give them all hugs? Love cures everything, and it's cheaper too! We can use the left over money on our children's future!!! god.

Oh thank you darkened.. Thank you for permisions to attack you personally with words. "And feel free to personally attack me because it does not bother me at all."
Here goes....

You are a a self centered unintellegent drain on society. If you have failed to understand what it is I do not agree with it just further proves your myopic views on life. I know well the point you were trying to make. Your inflated ego made sure of that.

"And please don’t try to argue that welfare is needed because the people on it have no other means to survive because there is really no way more than 2% of the people on welfare honestly deserve it."

Freud would wonder why such a psyche would conclude with the figure 2%. I know where it came from and I'm surprised it made it out unscathed. Whether or not someone is entitled to something is of course always up for debate. This does not negate the fact that the person needs it and unless you wish to take an approach similar to Hitler's we as a society need to do something about it. If you want to watch people suffer and die off start your own country and invite people in to do just that. I for one do not. However, none of that matters because many people do not live on welfare their entire lives. Many of these people who you seem to so loosely categorize, giving your argument to the fallacy of the hasty generalization, do actually make something of themselves. Yes despite all of the stomping those who are empowered to commit some do make it up the ranks to achieve enough wealth to compete and be secure in their lives.

A penny saved is a penny earned. "So if you'd rather other people be paying for your kids education so you can save money send them to public school."
But a penny that is not there is still not there.

You should be happy you are lucky enough to choose a private school for your children. You should also not tred on those that are not for nothing more than the fact that they are not. But I also shouldn't have to tell you this. This should tell you a little something about your charector. Maybe I'll use that latter to "personally attack" thanks again for the permission.

And as far as Harvard is concerned.... How many Harvard graduates have been convicted for fruad?

"And how would increasing socialistic programs decrease terrorism? Terrorism is fueled by hate of Americans actually having a good life to live, that the only thing the terrorists have to look forward is their honorable hari kari missions...."

More short sighted remarks. In fact many of the people that are attacking could very well be americans. First off its not hard to get into the country and second off ways of thought do not need to be spread face to face, there are many technologies in this age that communicate and it would not take much for a disgrumpled american to learn other views. Look at all the cult problems we've had. Not to mention the people of the country are more likely to stand up for their country if they are being taken care off. If the country were run as you suggest and all those that could not afford the means to survive did not get to there would be a lot fewer people out there willing to stand behind their leaders. From a more abstract stand point those with money are usually the ones that cause economy to expand. While that is good to an extent inflation becomes a problem. There have been many lesons in our past that give proof to that. Because it is those that have the money to do so cause this expansion causing the prices of nessesary goods to increase they are the ones responsible for dis-enabling the less fortunate to survive.


I'm sure you do not care though. Why should you. Like I said before. Through the eyes of someone who can afford to segregate.

"My question is, why do those of us who worked to pay for and learn in school have spend our time explaning these things to the princesses who couldn't be bothered to stop piddling around with their ponies and cocaine?"

Sorry for the triple post, but I was just wondering what any of that had to do with supporting our way of life in this country. You talk about him making more of his education . . . and your stereotypes are the conclusions you reached after you got your education?

To answer your question: You don't have to spend time pushing your socialist agenda. You choose to. Who ever said you have to? If you don't want to, and you said you don't, then don't reply anymore.

I'm not a princess, I don't do cocaine. I don't recall ever piddling with any ponies.

My single mother is unemployed and I am paying my own way through college.

You don't know as much as you think you do. You're right though - let's sell all the guns in the world so we can buy food and shelter and whatever for everybody. Can we hold hands and sing around a campfire too? It really is a great idea, but I challenge you to find an expert on economics who will tell you that it will work.

darkened - In someone's defense (I'm not even sure whose) - I have seen several figures that most people on welfare do actually need it, but many of them spend the money inefficiently. Many are also not on welfare for quite as long as we think they are. Nontheless - I agree with everything else you said.

quick note - didn't see the "public school is an educational equivelant to welfare?" part. Which seems to have started all of this.

Don't agree =)

Publicly funded schools provide everybody in this country with an education. That was pretty snooty dude.

Sherminator, I don't believe anyone called you a princess. And among the many things we disagree on I have never read anything from you that would signify such. I have also never suggested we hold hands with anyone. Nor would I ever suggest we sell all our guns for education. I like my guns. But my education cost much more than my guns and I am a better marksman because of my education. Personally I'm not much of a social person. I find many people to be quite annoying and in-efficient is an understatement when it comes to most people's spending habits, but not just those on welfare. I would be willing to bet that the spending habits of the poor are much more efficient than that of the rich. If for nothing else than the fact that they are in fact living on less. As far as prejeduce goes. Well probably not something you should be speaking about, although I'm sure you would not deny your prejudgements.

But as usual we are about a quarter turn offset from each others point of view. Just enough to agree but for mutually exclusive reasons.

Now that Saddam is captured, it appears that "Bagdad Bob" needs a new cause. Perhaps there is a place for him as a spokeman for the RIAA.

It seems to me that some Republicans don't care about the welfare of their fellow Americans, unless of course if they are rich also. By saying that paying taxes towards public education is a waste of your tax dollar is ridiculous. Our nation needs to be uniformially strong when it comes to Education. Yes, I have a lot of issues with the public schools, I don't think they are run very well and I also think that they are under funded, but they are essential to preserving the American dream and capitalist society that we live in. It seems like that some far right winged conservative Republicans are somewhat selfish when it comes to paying taxes, hence the tax cuts Bush pushed through Congress. Yeah, great Saddam was captured, does that effect me personally like college and school funding would? Not at all because Saddam had nothing to do with Osama Bin Laden. I wish we had that 87 billion dollars working for the American people rather than being wasted on a foreign nation that I don't care about at all..

I already see it coming from some conservatives, I made some typos.. so before you attack me, I acknowledge that.. So if you're going to discuss issues on here with me, don't get into semantics...

Al-Qaeda cell bankrolled by the Baathists.
if you believe that propaganda from the Bush party. first off the two parties do not believe in the same things. in-fact they hate each other. the only thing that they agree on is that they both hate the USA Al-Qaeda started in Saudi Arabia and is financed from there. but the good old USA can not go there. oil money kings

JC123, you're absolutely right.

Bush will certainly use this to get re-elected, although the memory of this will fade before the election swings around.

Since the RIAA is so good at getting what it wants from the US government, maybe it can secure his release and hire him as a spokesman (and his information minister, too). I can see it now.

"We will not let the pirate infidels continue to steal our music! They will burn in the gates of Hell! There will be massive lawsuit campaigns against the thousands who dare to download! Bewarned, you will be slaughtered in court for trodding upon the magnificence of the DMCA!"

:-:~ Phantom

http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/Continuedfunding4remedialclasses

Saddam could be the new spokesman for Halliburton. Who better is out there to run a currupt org.????

Saddam ain't crap.. So they found the guy in a hole. Yep he gassed people like what 20 years ago and yep maybe our people over there might not get killed like they were but we shouldn't have been there in the first place .. there are bigger piles of crap to find namely Osama!

Things would be a lot better if we had never created Saddam Hussein.

Hi guys.. nOOb here... Names Dave,
love the place...

Idea.. Why don't we sell him on ebay?
say... I dunno. 87 Billion $$$ about right?

Purfus - when I said I'm not a princess, I was referring to viscix's comment that seemed to imply that disagreeing with him makes one a snooty rich person. I also agree that poor people spend more efficiently.. or it seems likely rather. But no poor people can afford to spend inefficiently, but it is the truth that too many of them do. I do not have a problem with welfare. I honestly used to until I stumbled upon those figures.

The whole freakin' purpose of taxes is to pay for things like public education, building hospitals.. etc. I agreed with a lot of darkened post, but not his first one. viscix was way off though.

Not sure what you mean about my prejudices.. except I do project a general hatred of baby boomers and hippies on all old people. maybe that's it. Regardless, he was guilty of it. I also didn't use my dislike of stupid hippies to justify any argument here.


On another note - glad we caught saddam. whether you're for or against the war, it's a good thing that we completed one of the primary objectives.

The other primary objective, preventind the use of the non-existant weapons os mass distruction, is still just as politicially embarassing through

I bet Hilary Rosen tries to find out who dug and outfitted his little hole, so she can get one for the end of the RIAA

WTF you guys keep flying off topic like a bunch of noob skate boarders trying to do tricks off a speed bump!

That is the only pre-judgements I've ever seen from you sherminator.

Racketgib, what are we supposed to talk about? Some imaginary figurehead our country has spent trillians to capture? Thats kind of a sour subject wouldn't you say....

ocket - thanks for the interesting analogy
purfus - I'd hate to think of myself as not hating all hippies, etc.

goldenpi - you never know.. he did have the weapons before, we all know that much. I wonder where they are, but I also don't trust Saddam that he just went ahead and destroyed them when told to. I try not to think about it anymore - I'll just wait for something to happen to settle the dispute. For one reason or another, he should have been removed (just looking on the up-side).

So Saddam's been captured?

Whoop-de-fucking doo....he was never a threat to anyone but his own people anyway.

There has never been any proven link between Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda. Al Qaeda declared war on all secular states. Saddam's Iraq was a secular state. Osama Bin Laden has been quoted as saying that Saddam was the epitome of a bad muslim and a 'socialist infidel'. He hates the man more than the US does.

Furthermore, Bin Laden is the guy that the US should be worried about.

If Saddam had these weapons, then where the hell are they? US forces have been in Iraq and have had unlimited and uninhibited access to every square mile of the desert nation for the past 8 months, and they still haven't found a thing. Also, if he did in fact have these weapons, don't you think that he'd have *gasp* used them?

As for the prime objectives, capturing Saddam Hussein was never one of them. As a matter of fact, I don't even know how anyone could possibly remember what the prime objective was, as it kept changing from "Saddam Hussein and the search for WMD" to "Operation Iraqi Freedom."

Let's also not forget that it was the US who provided this man with said weapons he had during the late 80's and early 90's, and it was also the US that supported him while he brutalized his own people and waged war on his neighbors.

He may have been a ruthless dictator who slaughtered 300,000 of his citizens, but anyone who thinks that the reason for this war was to help the poor Iraqi people really needs to a clue.

"If Saddam had these weapons, then where the hell are they?"

Just because we haven't found bin Laden, doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

Don't get me wrong - I am leaning towards the belief that our government lied to us. Johnson lied to the entire country to win support for the Vietnam war. This isn't anything new.

I seriously believe that sometimes a country's people need to be lied to. Unfortunately the more corrupt a government becomes the more dangerous the lies are.


"One of our own ships was attacked today in the gulf of tonkin." -Johnson

And thus the beginning of a huge escalation in the war.

Presidents lie to the people because the people usually whine too much. I don't have a problem with a war to control the middle east, oust an old nemesis and evil man, lower oil prices, and put the strength of our forces right in the middle of the most concentrated areas of terrorist activity on earth.

Iraq was nothing worth having around. It's people are already better off. Personally - I feel the link to terrorism is that Iraq would be a great place for us to have "military central" given the middle-eastern origins of terrorism. Yes, I think the government lied, and I am also growing very wary. Lies & war are not new, however.

Not new but that just makes them even more harmfull.

"Just because we haven't found bin Laden, doesn't mean he doesn't exist."

Look, the US forces have had access to every part of Iraq for 8 months, and they've still yet to find anything.

As I've said before, if he had them, then why didn't he use them? You mean to tell me that if someone invaded the US, it would just keep it's thousands of nuclear weapons in their wrapping papers?

"I seriously believe that sometimes a country's people need to be lied to. "

This isn't applicable or sensible here in any way, shape, or form. Why you believe that it's a good idea for a government to knowingly lie to and mislead its people is beyond me.

".............oust an old nemesis and evil man......"

More like an old friend, unless you've been living in a cave on Mars for the last 20 years.

"Iraq was nothing worth having around. It's people are already better off."

By whose standards?

Just because the Iraqi people suffered under Saddam Hussein doesn't mean that they welcome a US occupation force with open arms. The insurgent attacks should tell you that. All that's been done by removing Saddamn Hussein is to pass Iraq on from the rule of a dictator to the rule of a bunch of generals who want to play an exciting game of 'Empire Builder 2k3.'

The Bush Administration went into this war without and plans or preparation of what was to be done after the invasion was complete, and now they're paying for it.

What's really hilarious is that they're asking for help from the same nations that they told to fuck off when they didn't agree with the war.

Yeah there is no reason for a government to lie to its people. Unless that government is trying to force its will on the people in which case it is not a free democracy....

1.I think we need more conclusive proof of his detention,perhaps an appearance on the Dave Letterman show (with guards).
2. and payment for the mp3's he stole, just don't send me a cheque, an oil-well will be sufficient!

I am skeptical about any "news" from Bagdad.. go to Code's thread about newspeak to see what I mean.. I think the Texans will bring him back to Texas and drag him from the back of a truck..