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Canada deems p2p copying legal
Posted by Advancedpepe512000 in on December 13, 2003 at 12:04 AM



Here's the link ~~pepe~~
http://netscape.com.com/2100-1104_2-5121479.html?part=netscape&subj=technews&tag=mynetscape

By John Borland
CNET News.com
December 12, 2003, 2:20 PM PT




Downloading copyrighted music from peer-to-peer networks is legal in Canada, although uploading files is not, Canadian copyright regulators said in a ruling released Friday.

In the same decision, the Copyright Board of Canada imposed a government fee of as much as $25 on iPod-like MP3 players, putting the devices in the same category as audio tapes and blank CDs. The money collected from levies on "recording mediums" goes into a fund to pay musicians and songwriters for revenues lost from consumers' personal copying. Manufacturers are responsible for paying the fees and often pass the cost on to consumers.

The peer-to-peer component of the decision was prompted by questions from consumer and entertainment groups about ambiguous elements of Canadian law. Previously, most analysts had said uploading was illegal but that downloading for personal use might be allowed.

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"As far as computer hard drives are concerned, we say that for the time being, it is still legal," said Claude Majeau, secretary general of the Copyright Board.

The decision is likely to ruffle feathers on many sides, from consumer-electronics sellers worried about declining sales to international entertainment companies worried about the spread of peer-to-peer networks.


Copyright holder groups such as the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) had already been critical of Canada's copyright laws, in large part because the country has not instituted provisions similar to those found in the U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act. One portion of that law makes it illegal to break, or to distribute tools for breaking, digital copy protection mechanisms, such as the technology used to protect DVDs from piracy.

A lawyer for the Canadian record industry's trade association said the group still believed downloading was illegal, despite the decision.

"Our position is that under Canadian law, downloading is also prohibited," said Richard Pfohl, general counsel for the Canadian Recording Industry Association. "This is the opinion of the Copyright Board, but Canadian courts will decide this issue."

In its decision Friday, the Copyright Board said uploading or distributing copyrighted works online appeared to be prohibited under current Canadian law.

However, the country's copyright law does allow making a copy for personal use and does not address the source of that copy or whether the original has to be an authorized or noninfringing version, the board said.

Under those laws, certain media are designated as appropriate for making personal copies of music, and producers pay a per-unit fee into a pool designed to compensate musicians and songwriters. Most audio tapes and CDs, and now MP3 players, are included in that category. Other mediums, such as DVDs, are not deemed appropriate for personal copying.

Computer hard drives have never been reviewed under that provision, however. In its decision Friday, the board decided to allow personal copies on a hard drive until a fee ruling is made specifically on that medium or until the courts or legislature tell regulators to rule otherwise.

"Until such time, as a decision is made on hard drives, for the time being, (we are ruling) in favor of consumers," Majeau said.

Legal analysts said that courts would likely rule on the file-swapping issue later, despite Friday's opinion.

"I think it is pretty significant," Michael Geist, a law professor at the University of Ottawa, said. "It's not that the issue is resolved...I think that sooner or later, courts will sound off on the issue. But one thing they will take into consideration is the Copyright Board ruling."

Friday's decision will also impose a substantial surcharge on hard drive-based music players such as Apple Computer's iPod or the new Samsung Napster player for the first time. MP3 players with up to 10GB of memory will have an added levy of $15 added to their price, while larger players will see $25 added on top of the wholesale price.

MP3 players with less than 1GB of memory will have only a $2 surcharge added to their cost.

With a population of about 31 million people, Canada is approximately one-tenth the size of the United States. But Canadians are relatively heavy users of high-speed Internet connections, which make it easy to download music files. About 4.1 million Canadians were using a broadband connection at home as of the end of June 2003, according to U.K.-based research firm Point Topic. By comparison, U.S. cable and DSL (digital subscriber line) subscribers totaled 22.7 million at the end of September, according to Leichtman Research Group.

Canada has already raised the hackles of some copyright holders through its reluctance to enact measures that significantly expand digital copyright protection, as the controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) has done in the United States. As a result, Canada could become a model for countries seeking to find a balance between protecting copyright holders' rights and providing consumers with more liberal rights to copyrighted works. For now, it remains unclear how other countries might be influenced by Friday's ruling.

Geist said he believes the tariff decision could be just the tip of the iceberg for hardware makers, as Canadian regulators grapple with the full implications of the policy. Other devices, including PCs, may eventually be brought under the tariff scheme, he predicted.

"Given that they've made a strong stand on (peer-to-peer matters), if the policy remains the same, there's little choice but to move ahead on personal computers," Geist said.

However, a representative of the Canadian Private Copying Collective (CPCC), the group of music copyright holders that typically petitions for new media types to be added to the list, said computers were not on its agenda.

"We have never sought a levy on computer hard drives and do not intend to do so in the future," Lucie Beaucheni, vice chair of the CPCC, said.



User Comments

Intermediatepurfus
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 11:12 AM
"Downloading copyrighted music from peer-to-peer networks is legal in Canada, although uploading files is not, Canadian copyright regulators said in a ruling released Friday."

Ummm, thats not what I heard....
Intermediatepurfus
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 11:22 AM
"Our position is that under Canadian law, downloading is also prohibited," said Richard Pfohl, general counsel for the Canadian Recording Industry Association. "This is the opinion of the Copyright Board, but Canadian courts will decide this issue."

something is amis....
AdminCodeWarrior
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 12:30 PM
gotta agree purfus..

RockgdZiemann
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 12:42 PM
"A lawyer for the Canadian record industry's trade association said the group still believed downloading was illegal, despite the decision."

And they wonder why the public ignores the law. We're just following the example of the record labels.
Advancedpepe512000
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 12:42 PM
Under our copyright law, now, downloading is legal..that was understood yesterday by our Copyright Board of Canada...BUT, the CRIA, akin to the RIAA says no, simply because they don't want it to be legal....what has yet to be decided in court is WHO is in charge? Who makes those decisions laws?
Simply by SAYING something is illegal, like the cria is trying to get away with, does not make it illegal. BUT, is our Copyright Board, the lawmaker? No one really knows as it has not been tested in any court.
Does everyone understand this? ~~pep~~
DMemberRagingDrunk
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 1:46 PM
I agree with pepe. The Copyright Board says it's alright to download copyrighted files, but the CRIA is just choosing to ignore them.
AdvancedTheSherminator
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 3:03 PM
"...the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) had already been critical of Canada's copyright laws"

Run and hide canada!

Seriously - this is going WAY too far. So the recording industry doesn't agree with Canadian law? Well make Cary Sherman the new friggin Prime Minister then.

God forbid Canada undermine the recording industry of *america.*
Advancedpepe512000
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 3:11 PM
TheSherminator You got that right. The CRIA would love nothing better than to have the US laws apply to them... in fact, they ASSUME they do! They are all a bunch of ditz'ez as far as I'm concerned. Aren't I polite? ~~pepe~
IntermediateBufo
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 3:37 PM

Perhaps the Canadian copyright regulators are just being realistic (even if the RIAA is not). In practice, it would be very difficult to build a good legal case against folks who are simply downloading music using P2P, even if that music is copyright protected. Also the RIAA is suing folks for sharing, not downloading.

I would be interesting in knowing exactly how they will divy up the government fees collected from sales of MP3 players.
Advancedcompmore
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 3:47 PM
I'm waiting for Carey Sherman to come down from the mountain with some stone tablets decreeing that God has given them authority to make their own laws to undermine nations who disagree. (eathquakes, lightening, plauges)
Advancedpepe512000
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 4:01 PM
Bufo this is the hardest thing to comprehend. It's legal to download from p2p. It's not legal to upload. But, if people were not uploading, then no one could download. Nor could you download if people were not sharing.

I agree with gdZiemann, it's no wonder no one follows the laws, cause no one really knows what the freakin' laws are! it's way too complicated on both sides of the border and I wish to God someone would just straighten this whole mess out! ~~pepe~~
DMembernyer82
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 4:05 PM
Heres the plan guys. Move to Canada but live in a town close to the border. When you need to buy your blank cds, mp3 players, hard drives, etc...just hop over the border to the local bestbuy!

woohoo
Advancedpepe512000
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 4:28 PM
Nyer82 Good Plan, and you've just recieved Bestbuys blessings :) (Smile) ~~pepe~~
JazzJazzmary2U
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 4:59 PM
My question is, has any artists actually been PAID yet from these "funds" from recordable media, players, etc? Thinking
DMemberkoemoejoe
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 5:02 PM
A lawyer for the Canadian record industry's trade association said the group still believed downloading was illegal, despite the decision.

yea you would you over payed monkey in a sute :0P
DMemberkoemoejoe
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 5:14 PM
wow the more and more i think about this the more and more i do not like it basicly thay are saying becose a few millon folks around the world are down loading copy righted songs now thay should be able to take profit that thay do not deserve wow

i can't whate to get my own copyright
hahaha i can get in the bisness of bugging folks to give me money i did not earn

yea what a wonderfull like sueing for money i neaver made.....sueing for maony i might have made......and takeing in a tax on iteams that i do not own........look i can even get any one in amrakas personal info even if my bissness resides out of country......i wonder if osama bin laden can clam copyright infringment on gordge W. buch and get all his personal info and maybe even bring up a law sute???????? sounds fun maybe i'll send a sute his way............ or maybe o he!! f@ck it i think i'll sue you two
becose i'm going to copyright this comment and bye opening this page voilets my copyright bye copying it in to your cash
DMemberXxShadowxX
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 5:36 PM
"However, the country's copyright law does allow making a copy for personal use and does not address the source of that copy or whether the original has to be an authorized or noninfringing version, the board said."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not the same thing as the so-called "fair use" laws in the US?

If so, that would explain why the RIAA hasn't gone after any p2p leechers yet - as they legally would not be able to...

Advancedpepe512000
Date: December 13, 2003 @ 6:54 PM
XxShadowxX

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not the same thing as the so-called "fair use" laws in the US?

Good question. Why don't we all write the riaa and ask them? ~~pepe~~


Advancedgoldenpi
Date: December 14, 2003 @ 3:49 AM
P2P leechers would not only be harder to sue, they would also be much harder to track. The RIAA would need to log attempts to access files they share, but that would only show that a user downloaded one file. Not much to base a court case on, and the indimidation value of the maximum costs would be lower as well, so theres a higher probability the user might fight back, and could win.

The fees will probably be split in the same way as the US fees. A group is apointed as the representitive of the Canadian copyright holders, and the money goes to them. They then split the money according to the ratio of sales between the major copyright holders. It goes without saying that the artists have no chance of seeing the money, and indies even less.
DMemberConsumersAbyss
Date: December 14, 2003 @ 5:36 AM
"such as the technology used to protect DVDs from piracy."

No such Tech exists. If they are refering to Css encryption it is NOT to prevent copying. It is to control playback. Ever not been able to skip past that ad at the begining? Thats what it is for. They want you to Believe it is for Copy protection.
DMemberflibbertygibbet
Date: December 14, 2003 @ 8:38 AM
what's a leecher????
HiphopRasMasta
Date: December 14, 2003 @ 2:46 PM
Wow...they are legalizing everything in Canada now
DMemberTheBeansprout
Date: December 14, 2003 @ 4:57 PM
Legal to download but not upload, eh.

Well, I guess this will be the start of the huge warez servers again.
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