The idea of one day not being able to run any program you wish on your computer will soon become a reality if the new Palladium technology is released. In a FAQ posted at http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/longhorn.asp they describe Palladium as a way to "protect privacy by allowing only authorized software." It's not suprising that Microsoft has had it's hand in the bucket of DRM. The fact that Palladium will use DRM to "control information sent to your PC" has many privacy avocates worried. "Movie studios and the recording industry could use this technology to let their customers exercise their fair use rights to copy audio CDs and movies." When in all reality the MPAA nor the RIAA give a crap about your rights, but Micro$oft uses this excuse to promote their technology. When Palladium is released, it will be intergrated into both Intel and AMD chips. Basically, there is absolutely no way you can get away from it. You are going to be forced into buying "bugs" so you can be spied upon. Windows Longhorn (to be released late 2005) will use fully support Palladium. No word yet from Micro$oft if they will be releasing a service pack for older versions of Windows (95,98,ME,NT,2000 or XP).

And, within the first 24 hours of introduction, some 13 year old will probably outsmart it with a felt marker or something. Relax, EVERYTIME one of their "fool proof" techniques is released, it is defeated within a day. P2P will not be the most controversial technology any longer. The next generation of internet users will reap the rewards of other programs that will buck the system.

I'm getting sick and tired of these people forcing stuff on us that isn't needed. If this gets out there, I say no one buys computers with any of this and makes it as public as they can. Make an aggressive move towards VERY publicly boycotting them and getting others to join you. Privacy is about to be extinct if these jerkoffs get their way. What if I need a certain program to rip my own CD, then I want to distribute MY OWN STUFF on the p2p network that I want? What then? Will they tell me no because they don't trust me? Well, then I don't trust THEM. It's time to go to the legal extremes to get our message across! Do it now before it's too late!

And for you people not buying a new computer with this Longhorn, DON'T download ANY updates from Microsoft, as they may sneak stuff in. Stick with what you have, and all will be well. They'll never force people with old computers to do anything they don't want to. They can't right now.

I don't even care if someone bypasses this. Having it in the first place is too far and no one should waste the 2 minutes to figure it out.

Here's an elaborate explanation of "Trusted Computing":

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

This is really old news. I read this about palladium two years ago.... And it wont be easy to bypass. Thats why it is being implemented are the hardware. There is sort of a computer within your computer that is designed to excert complete control over the main processor. Hacking it would be like trying to manually control your own liver. As a user your really wont ever know it is there unless it stops you from doing something. The real unfortunate thing is that you can bet money microsoft will create a network back door with it. One which would easily bypass any firewall. The freaks are probably already writing viruses for it.

just do not buy it !!! i'm not going to

LOL pretty soon mr bill gates will be putting himself out of business too time to move to linux

boycotter if only that were true about Bill going out of business. however you beat me to the punch with linux but you still have the same hardware installed. maybe it's time we switch to Macs.

These companies market to the mass public. the public doesn't care as long as they can get email and play their games.

My next 2 computers were going to be Dells, but if they allow this on their computers, I'm getting Macs instead. Then I'll do what I was going to do before anyway: Build a few computers out of all my parts and put Linux on them. This current computer will stay as is without updates and whatnot, and connect to the internet only when I need Windows to do something. Thank you, Microsoft, for confirming my suspicions I had all along, leading to my decision...

Well, well, well, that was an interesting link undeath. (I can't believe I actually read AND understood the whole thing!)
I've already been looking into linux, and finally, last night, got away from I.E. (I'm now using MOZILLA FIREBIRD for a browser and it screams! Mozilla loads webpages in about half the time it took my I.E. to do it!
Also, it appears to me that those of us that post here often are gonna have our own little internet Island in a few years, since most of the world will eventually buy that crap.
Unfortunately, I did want to get a faster cpu before this happened as I'm running a 2GB Celeron right now and it does bog down from time to time.
Oh yeah people, you might wanna replace WINDVD with POWER DVD too.
-just FYI

guess i better start learning Linux again...

alexandertheegreat, I use Mozilla Firebird too. I like that it lets you pause and resume downloads. Also, in Internet Explorer it cuts out uin the middle, and Mozilla Firebird keeps on going. I go to etree.org to get my concerts, and get it all using Firebird. But if it's speed you're looking for, use Opera. It's faster than Firebird. I believe that's how they promote it (it's speed).

Instead of Power DVD, use Interactual Player.

And as for the island, there are people who run a server or something in international waters. Sounds like a good idea, but with the way things look, that will soon come to and end, unfortunately.

If this actually goes as M$ intends, I can see a whole new era of censorship and unjust "Rights Management." This *must* be stopped before it actually happens!

Purchase the parts you can now...

undeath, I'm still realatively new to computers, only 2 years experience, anyway, I'm trying to figure out how to run filezilla right now, and still haven't figred out how to do ANY ftp downloads. (Pretty frustrating!) I will however, try out Opera and Interactual player, anything's better that that WIN DVD, that took about 30 seconds (at least) just to appear on the screen!.
Again thanks, advice that helps my downloading, archiving and browsing experience is ALWAYS welcomed!

hmm.. why would intel and amd want this built into thier chips? I could see why microsoft would.. Secondly, If microsofts pallidium is as good as XP then I think we can all say it will be cracked within 2 weeks after release.. Also, who's going to want to buy new computers with such a device when it invades your privacy... It sounds like with how restrictive the software is they are turning PC's into Video Game machines that can only read one format... Well bottom line is i'm not buying this pallidium crap ... starting to tihnk about linux just because I hate microsuck!

P. S, Does anyone know why their are so many updates from Microsoft.. I'm assuming to block worms but couldn't you forget about those updates with a good firewall and virus protection?

So, if i just use win2k or xp from now till eternity, this stuff wont work (assuming i dont dl any service packs)

If you have a fast connection, FTP downloading is probably easier for beginners by using an FTP client. If you have a site or message board user who posts an FTP site where stuff is offered for free, then use that FTP client to access that site with the given username and password.

Example:
Someone gives you ftp.website.com to go to in order to access their files. Then they give a username and password (sometimes it's just anonymous across the board). Use your FTP client (I prefer SmartFTP), and use that site name, username, password, and port given and connect.

I did this once, and it went sort of slow, so I don't anymore. I have cable internet, and my bandwidth was maxed out for the month, which might have contributed to it. (I'm in that predicament right now, as a matter of fact.)

I hope this helped with your FTP downloading experience. That's one way, and the easiest way without just clicking a link to connect and download the file.

Well, well, well...looks like I'll just keep runnin' my lowly 900MHz Win98 box..

good advice from undeath on FTP..
the ftp client I use is an older version of CuteFTP, but there are lots of them out there....WSFTP from Ipswitch, FTP Explorer,etc. Generally, to me, the earlier the version the easier to use..
www.globalscape.com for cuteftp

This is why I've boycotted Micro$oft longer than the RIAA.

Hawk7771 may have highlighted the biggest weakness to the palladium idea.
There is no rule that says you have to buy a computer with palladium, even if all microsoft packages come with it.

If people don't like palladium, they won't buy. There will always be some computer manufacturer who will try to make what customers want.

This reminds me of the electric cars that California has been trying to mandate. They can pass all the madates they want, but if people won't buy it (because it is crap and/or too expensive) then it will be dead in the water.

"If this actually goes as M$ intends, I can see a whole new era of censorship and unjust "Rights Management." "

Kinda reminds me of the books "Farenheit 451", and "Anthem", both taking place in a dystopia of HEAVY CENSORSHIP

I see the pionts risen here are ones of certainty. It is certain that the Palladium technologies are unbreakable at the current time.

However, nobody who breaks programs has access to the data or technologies of Palladium at the current time.

If this is unjustly forced upon the people, there will be hell to pay. In time, however, Palladium will be broken.

MP3user: I actually thought of Fahrenheit 451 right after I posted that. Just an other reason why it shouldn't happen.

As for Palladium being broken: any thing that can be made can be un-made. I trust Palladium will be no exception, although it would be better if it were not even given the chance.

i'm in my fifties and been on the putter for two years now started late but i will not buy a dell or any putter from any company. newegg . com build your own like i did its not that hard now to learn Linux. back to dos. if i can not get what i want then the hell with that company

I installed a match from windows update yesterday. After the reboot it requested, my hard drive controler chip exploded. That is an impressive bug even by microsofts standards. I dont know if it was coinidential or some strange effect of the patch, perhaps it crashed the drive firmware while it was driveing the motor?

Palladiums security and DRM will be broken of course. It will be broken in many places, with many methods, by many people. But thats not going to defeat its real aim. Its the ultimate lock-in technology. Palladium-encrypted office documents will only be readable using MS palladium office. Palladium-secured hard drives will only read in windows, even if someone works out how the new FS works. MS even plans palladium-equiped keyboards, encrypting everything you type from the keyboard chip to the application to prevent keyloggers.

Once the hardwares in on it, wht happens if you try to run linux? It will run, yes. Intel would never block linux completly and lose part of the server market. But the BIOS will not flag the OS as trusted. So you wont be able to use the palladium-based features. Wont be able to download authenticated files, or even watch authenticated streams. The sound card might refuse to capture SCMS-copy-once media, because it cant confirm your running the correct tamperproof encrypting recorder.

MS has renamed the technology now, palladium is now called NGSCB. But people will continue to call it palladium for a long time.

** If people don't like palladium, they won't buy. There will always be some computer manufacturer who will try to make what customers want.** -- Bufo

Only one thing. In an environment where everything is governed not by the market but by the dictates of a few radical ideologues with no regard for the consequences of their insidious agendas (as is increasingly becoming the case throughout the civilized Western world of which the 'U.S.A.' is but a part), that will no longer be true. It will be permanently shoved down our throats whether we want it or not. This whole scheme has "radical social engineering" (among others) written all over it. It also smacks of socialism.

Here's an idea. Put a server on the Moon (which can't be claimed by ANY government or nation) and satellite routers in orbit of the Earth and provide access to the billions who won't use this Palladium crap. Sure, the only problem would be servicing the servers if they should crash, but you'd be surprised at what micro-robots can do these days.

If you tried that some government would still try to claim it We used to have pirate radio transmitters in international water near here to avoid UK broadcasting regulations. The government responded by jamming them.

People will buy NGSCB for the same reason they buy windows. They wont have a choice. You cant buy an off-the-shelf computer without windows XP installed. Soon you wont be able to buy an off-the-shelf computer without a NGSCB chip and windows installed. The people who build their own will always be in a minority, and even if you do build a drm-free computer, its going to be very hard to get it interoperating with the propritary systems properly.

M$ does not do things for fun or for free. Why would they want to implement DRM for no reason unless they want their own versions of media software as the industry standard. In which case the non-M$ would not work on their computers. This is not the first time they hav tried to take over a industry and it probably won't be the last.

Could be some interesting court fights, unfortunatelly lawyers and judges will decide the law, not our money stuffing politicians.

"protect privacy by allowing only authorized software."

How come everytime a company like Microsoft or even the RIAA come out with something dumb like DRM or some other copyright protected crap they always say it's in the best interest of the consumer? How is limiting the consumer's ability to use something in the best interest of the consumer?

All it does I believe is to control how a person uses that product. Throughout history there is always someone who wants to control another. Do we have control over what we do with our own computer? I don't think we ever had control. The only we do as computer user is to keep that control in check.

DRM is basically a all or nothing philosiphy. Just like the RIAA, a all or nothing philosiphy. You can't share non copyrighted files on P2P cause that will defeat the purpose of what the RIAA is doing. Under DRM, you won't be able to run non copyrighted software cause that will defeat the purpose of the Software Alliance's cause.

A person that gets something for free is a shot in the back to the company that charges for something. A case in point is Microsoft campaign against freeware, particularly Linux. Even with Microsoft saying how bad Linux is, they couldn't stem the tide of people, companies, and governments from using Linux.

DRM is not to prevent people from using hacked software, it's to control how people use that software and there computer. When we give a company control of the software we buy, we essentially give them control over our computer.

Oh and btw, the consumer will lose out with DRM. The consumer will have less choices and will be left with substandard software. Only the big monopoly players like Microsoft will be left standing which is sad in itself.

Is Apple part of the Palladium group?

I know Apple is generally more expensive than AMD/Intel machines, but I have to imagine they would really benefit from this garbage since they'll be Palladium-free, especially with the right commercial campaigns.

I'll keep using my AMD machine, and maybe buy a new just-before-Palladium machine to keep me going strong 3-4 years and see if Palladium is still around then. If it is, I'll buy a Mac.

Linux is easier than XP. It installs much faster. Most of the software is free and much less annoying. There are problems getting all the hardware to work sometimes because all the drivers were developed for windows, but you can always sell a piece of hardware that has trouble and buy a linux compatible one. As linux gains users companies will support it more. This is what M$ wants to prevent.

This is why i give a big FU to Microsoft. I had a rotten gut feeling MS and RIAA will make alliance to censor consumers.

F**K THIS S**T IM SICK OF THIS! YOUR GOING DOWN MS THIS IS WAR!

Does anyone realize that microsoft's website is ran on linux servers?

just do not buy it they will have to go back to what the people will buy

SOMEONE EVERYONE START GOING PUBLIC RIGHT NOW

Guess I'm getting a Mac soon...Or maybe I'll just stick with Windows ME,and hope people put out hardware without it...

Linux

I would be funny if this gave linux the upper hand

censorship is going to far. someone needs to stand up to this bs

motorolla or mac will probably beat ms to the punch. Gaumond, palladium will probably be stored in your BIOS, so your OS wont matter

all i know right before TCPA comes into effect, ima spend every single cent i have, along with maxing out all the credit cards i have to buy motherboards, processors (and ram if they attach it to that) the fastest that dont have it, wait a month or 2 then hit ebay

well the way it sounds on the link at the top, in 2005 only select boards will come with the chips to test it out and to see if it seems more like a more perminent solution or not. so we may have longer than 2 years.

yeah but the OS has to imploment the palledium so if linux doesnt use it it wont really make a big difference, yeah ull still have it but it wont do much.

Anyways sence i Build my own computers I will just look to buy board w/o the technology. Untill I cant anymore.

I have my extigy card. Thats audio covered. Dont bother stockpileing firewire cards - the protection on that is software-based.

I guess I'll just have to keep upgrading this computer as time goes by. If I can't escape this technology, then I'll just have to live without it.

I think I may have to build my own comp without this stupid technology, and you can bet thier will be a ton of retailers ready to sell you non pallidium hardware and software... If there is customer demand, then they will make it... With such a drastic measure by microsuck, i would imagine that people would be more likely to build their own comps without this technology.. What about Mac?

The trusted computing alliance is trying to get a law passed that will make the palladium chip mandatory in all computers. It would also make it illegal to run OSes that don't support palladium.

Macs (that is Apple) have traditionally been pro consumer choice. However, with iTunes hawking DRM, who knows?

As a Mac tech and user I hope Apple will see the foolishness of MS and not follow. On the bright side, Apple seems to be moving in a direction the will make it less dependent, if not independent from MS. They introduced a web browser, and are rumored to be working on an office productivity suite. They already have Keynote, the powerpoint killer.

Ok Ok...gotta clear some things up here. I'd post links to this info, but I don't remember the pages off hand and my connection is rather slow atm.

AMD said that they were only on the list of companies going along with NGSCB because they didn't want to be left behind. They didn't necessarily have plans to put the crap in their chips. I have my doubts that Microsloth will let them will hold to that descision, but if they do they could stand to make a lot of money. Here's where it gets interesting. AMD has surpassed Intel with their Athalon 64. (there's your faster processor btw for the person that was looking for one. Be prepared for a 4 digit price tag though.) Intel has never liked AMD much simply because Intel was never able to squash them like it has with the rest of their competition. Intel will probably try to convince AMD to stay out of NGSCB thinking that the profits will be in NGSCB.

As for the cracking part I really don't think that is going to happen. The system uses collaboration between software _and_ hardware. Add on top of it the second generation "Fritz" chips will be put inside the processors and you have a real nightmare for any hackers that want to try.

Thirdly I don't think simply not buying it is going to cut it since there are two strangle holds that Microsloth is working on. One is that Big Businesses always upgrade their computers about every 5 to 7 years. Most offices use a form of Windows for their employees machines. Therefore the businesses will be infected with NGSCB forcing the suppliers and retailers that communicate with a particular office to buy NGSCB and the employees that also do work from home to buy NGSCB and the family and friends that want to trade e-mails, pictures and other digital media to buy NGSCB. Thus it spreads much like a virus until the sane people are choked into buying it aswell. The second way is that there is a bill, or there was not sure if it still is, in Congress called the CBTPA? Consumer Broadband and Tellecommunications Protection Act I think. It was sponsored by Senator Fritz Hollings and it makes this NGSCB crap as well as any other form of DRM manditory for all electronics.

Which brings me to my last point and that is resistance. This can be fought. There are certain abuses of NGSCB that could cause another Enron but this time the bastard CEO could get away with it because he could simply lock up all the info. So step number one in fighting NGSCB is to inform your CEO, if possible, your immediate employer and have them inform their boss and also talk to your IT department about it. First and foremost don't just tell them get some documentation on these abuses for them to read and no web links give them something they can throw in their briefcases and look at when they have a few minutes. The other way to fight should be fairly obvious. If the CBTPA is still circulating then contact your Congress person and tell them in no uncertain terms that unless they make a move to get this bill shot down then you will see to it that they get shot down in the upcoming elections.

Good luck to all of you.

Is it just me or is it becoming ever more difficult to run a PC these days.

Currently you need a firewall, Anti-virus, ad blocker, spam protection, ad-ware scanner and god knows what else I'm not aware of just to be able to view a few web pages and send email.

It's not worth the hassle anymore.

Now comes Palladium.

I'm not sure what, exactly, it is designed to do.

Can someone give a few laymans examples of the dangers with Palladium. I read all the posts so far and think I get it. But I'm not entirely sure.

Is simply buying a MAC going to avert the dangers of Palladium?

Are there disadvantages to the MAC?

Thanks

This is ridiculous. I'm going to keep using my old computers as long as they keep running.
Of course this means I won't need to upgrade my OS. If it comes down to it, I will switch to Linux or Mac.

Been Mac since the begining, always will be! There is nothing you can do on the Pc that you can't do on the Mac - except stress over viruses and widespread problems with OS.

"The average Wintel home user spends around 50 hours per year troubleshooting their computer, while the average Mac user spends less than 5."

For those considering a switch to Macs check out this webpage:

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/

I don't have any affiliation with Apple, but I should considering the amount of folks I have gotten to to buy Macs.

The problem with the" you don't like it don't buy it" stance is that most people won't know they are buying it. It will probablbly be one of the bullet points on the side of the box. So most people that do read will think its a GOOD thing. Only the few will know better and they don't care what we think. Not if they can keep us quiet. The need to be some super dirty little secret to exposed to show it for what it really is.

According to the link mentioned in the article about Palladium will be an optional security component. Now i know what Micro$oft say's and does is to different things. but if it an optional component it is a little reassuring.