by George Ziemann

According to a story at Yahoo News, Microsoft Corp said it would be forced to offer European consumers a substandard version of Windows if the European Union makes it re-write its operating system.

A substandard version of Windows? While you contemplate that for a moment...

" The European Commission has proposed forcing Microsoft to remove its Media Player software from the Windows operating system and imposing a hefty fine, as part of a remedy for allegedly muscling competitors out of the market."

"The Commission wants computer makers, rather than Microsoft, to choose which software to install for capturing Web-streaming audio and video on their personal computers.

"But from Microsoft's presentation at the hearing, both orally and through a videotaped presentation, it was clear the company ruled out removing Media Player from Windows as part of any settlement, the sources familiar with the case said."

This is the real interesting part. Deja vu all over again.

The EU calls Media Player a product but Microsoft considers it one function of Windows -- the same lame story it used in the Microsoft v US antitrust case, which Microsoft lost, as I recall.

"A judge ordered Microsoft to remove Internet Explorer and Microsoft responded by offering a broken version of Windows.

"Later, experts hired by the Justice Department testified that Microsoft had chosen to write its software so that other functions would not work if the Web browser were removed. They added Microsoft could choose to write the software any way it wanted."

I must confess to not being a Microsoft fan. However, the Justice Dept.'s logic is inescapable.

For Microsoft to even claim that removing a Media Player would damage Windows seems ludicrous from a programming standpoint. I would buy it had they said that it would break the Media Player, but to complain that removal of an audio/video component upsets the system of balance in an OS seems to point to a cart-before-the-horse approach to programming.

If taking out Media Player shatters Windows, it was already broken.

Windoze has always been "broken". As they used to say, Windoze 2000 = Mac 1984.

it's BS to call Media Player a function...its an app plain and simple. M$ wants to leave it in because Media Player 9 is part of their DRM scheme.

Micro$oft has been pushing this integration nonsense for a while now...and they try to imbed these programs like little cancers with their tentacles all mired up in the OS, so it is difficult to remove, trying to make them APPEAR as parts of the OS from a functional standpoint. It's sleazy and slimy...they're sleazy and slimy...

"Later, experts hired by the Justice Department testified that Microsoft had chosen to write its software so that other functions would not work if the Web browser were removed. They added Microsoft could choose to write the software any way it wanted."

EXACTLY my point.

check this out out Rejected: 38.114.129.220 - PSI Inc. ( Techtv ) TEST RPG (11-07-2003 @ 18:42:33)
Rejected: 38.114.129.220 - PSI Inc. ( Techtv ) TEST RPG (11-07-2003 @ 18:42:33)
Rejected: 38.114.129.220 - PSI Inc. ( Techtv ) TEST RPG (11-07-2003 @ 18:42:33)
Rejected: 38.114.129.220 - PSI Inc. ( Techtv ) TEST RPG (11-07-2003 @ 18:42:33)
Rejected: 38.114.129.220 - PSI Inc. ( Techtv ) TEST RPG (11-07-2003 @ 18:42:33)
Rejected: 38.114.129.220 - PSI Inc. ( Techtv ) TEST RPG (11-07-2003 @ 18:42:33)
Rejected: 38.114.129.220 - PSI Inc. ( Techtv ) TEST RPG (11-07-2003 @ 18:42:33)
Rejected: 38.114.129.220 - PSI Inc. ( Techtv ) TEST RPG (11-07-2003 @ 18:42:33)
11-07-2003, 18:42:33, 38.114.129.148
Rejected: 38.114.129.148 - PSI Inc. ( Techtv ) TEST RPG (11-07-2003 @ 18:42:33)
Rejected: 38.114.129.148 - PSI Inc. ( Techtv ) TEST RPG (11-07-2003 @ 18:42:33)

i wonder what thats all about techtv is spying on us now?

man MS has lost thair minds thay really think thay can pull off bs li8ke this in this day and age are GUV is getting smarter about computers and the way thay work and MS is still trying to use the same tricks thay have been useing to blind are GUV. for so many years MS. needs to be baned along with the RIAA/MAPP/KAZAA/alnet/90% of congress/big bissness! in it's full form

microsoft is fucked now
money money money moneyy thaz wha its about

I just figured it out -- he's Boomhauer!

I love Boomhauer. My favorite character on King of the Hill ever.

How is MS Media Player considered an integral part of the OS when it can be uninstalled from the Add/Remove Programs box? The first thing on a PC is uninstall MEdia Player and then install a player of my choosing.

Exaxtly what I was thinking Etrigan while reading through this thread.

Etrigan-
Have you been able to uninstall Win Media Player 9 on an XP system?
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-957704.html
I've never installed it because of the DRM..and will not let my system upgrade WMP..but I've heard you have a very hard uninstall of Win Med Player 9 on XP

"Some people looking to uninstall the latest test version of Microsoft's new Windows Media Player 9 Series software may find the program is like a bad houseguest: It just won't leave.
Microsoft's latest media software doesn't include a mechanism for uninstalling the software on Windows Millennium Edition (Me) or Windows XP operating system. Typically software makers like Microsoft provide a simple means of uninstalling software--particularly software such as Media Player 9 Series that has yet to be officially released.

The Redmond, Wash.-based company released the public beta version last week amid much fanfare in Hollywood.

Windows Me and XP users must rely on a feature called "System Restore" to roll back their Windows installation to a time before they installed Media Player 9 Series if the want to uninstall it. The clunky alternative doesn't really remove all Windows Media Player 9 Series files and could potentially wipe out other system changes.

David Caulton, a Windows Media product manager, said the uninstall issue isn't a bug or mistake: Microsoft intended the software to work that way, and the company warns people before they install the software that it's hard to get rid of it.

"We tried to make this clear on the download page. It's the method we use to get the OS back to the previous state. As with any OS component you might upgrade, everything has to go back sequentially together. If I install Windows Media Player 9 Series beta and Office, and I roll back, that would be to a pre-Office state," said Caulton. "The more users that can be informed that's the method for going back, the better," he said.

Users running Windows 98 SE or Windows 2000 can easily uninstall the media player using the operating systems' "Add or Remove Programs" feature, a typical means of getting rid of unwanted software. This option is not available on Windows Me or XP because of the media player's deep integration into the operating systems, Caulton said.

"Windows 2000 doesn't have the issues with deep media integration into the shell, the way Windows Millennium Edition and Windows XP have," Caulton said.

"This is really an OS upgrade," Caulton said of Windows Media Player 9 Series. "If you imagine a situation with an XP user who has got all these links into media capabilities...and you updated to Windows Media Player 9 Series and removed it, all those become dead links."

Analysts said the uninstall issue will most likely cause problems"

"How is MS Media Player considered an integral part of the OS when it can be uninstalled from the Add/Remove Programs box?"

I again reiterate - when those in our generation end up in office, crap like this won't fly. I'm not saying it'll be happy-land. It'll be messed up as can be, I'm sure. But we grew up on computers and grew up on windows.

If Microsoft says "IE and Media Player are integral" it's a big deal trying to actually determine whether or not it is. Those of us raised on this OS know very well two things:

1. Not integral
2. We hate it


And my original reason for wanting to post: I hate macs. I hate the mouse, I hate it all. When my Windows98 (first edition) will no longer function because MS has purposely forced me to upgrade by phasing me out.. I will upgrade to:

1. Linux
2. Mac

If I was Bill Gates I'd tell the EU to take it or leave it, but i'm not, thankfully there is always Linux.

.. Eh. Windows was already substandard.

.. and clearly, an "Upgrade" that is technically more difficult (which came first, WM as an APP or WM as a fundamental peice of the OS?) and "everybody" hates, is hardly the thing a company should be pushing as innovation. It won't surprise me when the security problems caused by IE being a peice of the OS start showing up on WM. ("Don't watch that movie, it'll eat your hard drive!")

Shermanator I wish you luck. those in my generation (60's and 70's) hated everything that had to do with the establishment and we said the same thing. the problem is not everyone in one generation wants the kind of change we do. and they're the ones who usually go into public service.

code I'm sure there's a registry hack that'll get rid of most of the working components but you have to know enough to leave any shared files. I may look around for that

money is king and that transends all generations.

Would a stripped down car, a car without the power windows, power door locks etc.. be considered substandard?

Imagine if a stripped down version of Windows was available. Windows without all that bloated garbage added to it. A operating system that actually gave the computer user only what they needed. A operating system that is secure yet easy to use.

Miracles can and do happen

Amen to compmore's words!

There used to be a stripped down version of Windows..it was 3.0...
and before that....DOS

of Windows Media Player 8 uninstall from the add and remove i read some where that it stills runs in the back ground in xp.

This is weird. I just spent the better part of this morning trying to REMOVE WMP from my system. It won't let you. I tried to delete the whole "Windows Media Player" folder. Nope. So then I went into the folder and started deleteing single files. Some would reappear five seconds after I deleted them. Before all that I went to Add/Remove Windows Components and removed WMP, but it would still come up when I popped in a DVD even though it was supposedly uninstalled. I can attest that it DOES still run in the background.

Using XP Pro btw.

WMP8 is tightly tied into the OS, but only for its DRM functions. When playing protected audio, it actually passes the audio data encrypted to the kernel module which decrypts it, to prevent any userspace loggers recording it. Most of the ties are completly pointless, intended only to complicate attempts to remove WMP.

The reason MS wants WMP bundled so much is because its trying to destroy all open media formats. AVI and MP3 are too open for microsofts liking, and just mentioning Vorbis will get dirty looks from the management. Microsoft belives (correctly) that if it can use bundleing to give its WM formats such an unfair advantage as to kill all competition it will perminantly take over that area, and in doing to make it much harder to run non-windows desktop systems and streaming servers. Primarily they intend to achieve this aim by bundleing WMP, through they also bundle windows movie maker, the utility which windows loads by default if a firewire video source is detected and which saves only in WMV format.

The intigration of DRM in the WM system is both a commercial and idological decision. From a commercial point, DRM gives MS a good excuse to lock out competition and gives them more control over the technology, and also allows commercial content services to use WM technology (thus preventing non-windows users on those services). From an idological point, MS has always been very strongly pro-copyright, and pro-IP of any kind. Understandable for a company that relies on copyright so heavily of course, but MS is one of those that takes it to rediculous extremes. They have many pointless or trivial patents. The windows 2000 startup logo contains *five* (tm) symbols And of course they are famous for their incomprehensable licences.

Zuckuss you have discovered the wonder of windows file protection. Its a "nessesary" feature microsoft has given to it's users. It monitors "system" files and ensures they are not deleted. It will work the the prefetch directory and recover files from their or other installation sources. Because media play is a nessesary part of windows WFP ensures you do not delete it. Oh and if you use add/remove, your actually uninstalling a link to mediaplayer. Same way they saved some face with internet explorer. The number of people that thought it was actually uninstalling ie were enough to keep them in the clear. The thing to do is to disable WFP. www.litepc.com is a cool utility. There are others that disable WFP. Then you can go ahead and delete stuff you dont want. Also go into your registry and delete anything associated with mediaplayer. This probably wont get rid of everything, i'm sure theres more big brother crap integrated to the point of no visibility. Winxp is pretty much a user marketing research tool for microsoft.

Thank you, purfus. I knew MS was dirty, but hadn't personally experienced the ridiculousness of until this morning. XP will be my last MS OS. I'm off to your much appreciated link now!

I just use Ultra player. works great with audio and vieo files. I don't even touch WMP. then for added measure I've downloaded all the Divx codecs to compensate for those files not covered with Ultra player. I've found very few (if any) files I can't play and record with this set up

notice that in this story, the european commission hasn't said a word about benefits for consumers.

"The Commission wants computer makers, rather than Microsoft, to choose which software to install for capturing Web-streaming audio and video on their personal computers."

that quote seems harmless on the surface. but it's not.

Europe has become a real steaming pile of corrupt capitalism as of late.

What Bill G should do is give us Europeans a version without windows media included, charge another 25% for doing so, then we still have to purchase a media player from somewhere so offer us a euro version of the MS media player and charge us again. It makes perfect sense to me !!!! LOL

I'm glad I could help zuckuss. I am writing an article on cleaning up windows does anyone have any request of issues they would like to see discussed?
Here is my current contents. Please add to it.

Contents

1. Windows Services
a. The root of the problem.
b. Messenger
c. Universal Plug and Pray
d. Windows File Protection
e. What’s all this other stuff?
2. Cleaning up unwanted windows software
a. Media Player
b. Internet Explorer
c. Movie Maker
d. Net Meeting
e. Oh just delete it all.
3. The truth about Media Player
a. Direct Show
b. Real alternatives
4. Anti-everything
a. Anti-Virus
b. Anti-Add
c. Anti-Spy
5. How to stay clean
a. What to and not to do on the net.
b. Keep the up the good fight.
6. Conclusion
a. Why Linux is a viable alternative.

I agree ashleighj, "screw the consumer, this is about us other just as greedy corporations god given right to make money too" is a good translation of that quote.

Shmoo, of Electric Gypsy

purfus,

Include some links and resources for using Linux. Also, please post your completed article on this site, thanks so much for doing this. I'm ridding myself of the Windows disease, and I've installed Mandrake Linux.

Hey!... they need to remove the calculator too!