by George Ziemann

This is a quick one.

I saw a commercial on television for MTV2, the motto for which is apparently, "Where the Music Is".

So what is the motto for the "original" MTV? "Where the Commercials Are"?

From a viewer's standpoint, simply:
MTV is focused on shows
MTV2 is focused on videos

MTV2 also gives air time to independent acts, but most of it is just pop pap. A few years back the network gave more time to independents and had a basement, low budget approach, much like mtv was in the beginning. It's far more commercialized now.

I'm ashamed to admit I've noticed this by watching.

geez...I have MTV and I guess MTV2 and VH1 and every other incarnation...I never watch them...if you ask me, they went downhill AFTER the first time they played the video VIDEO KILLED THE RADIO STAR or whatever that was from the Boggles...

Aw, come on Code. MTV was probably good for an entire month just on novelty alone.

Buggles*

I never watch either. They are a big part of the problem.

I'm sure MTV2 show at least ONE good video a day...don't they?

Being a former film student, I'd have to say there have been a handful of videos that I'd confidently call great short films. Also, from that same pov, I'd say that it's been fun to watch the art form develop (only the groundbreaking ones). Some great directors came out of this school, David Fincher, Michel Gondry and Tim Pope are but a few that cut their teeth on this genre.

I don't think it's fair to characterize the network in it's early days as pure novelty, like anything else it had it's moments, less these days but in the beginning there were a lot of groundbreaking works like Bowie's "ashes to ashes" which was made well before the network even existed.

There's a lot wrong with the programming now and few alternatives to it's clear channel approach exist.

If you like the medium at all, vh1 classic shows a lot of the real groundbreaking (and more alternative) stuff during it's "we are the 80's" segments. But sadly, it's a viacom subsidiary and as yet, no station exists that will show videos from independent artists.

There was a time when the relevancy of music videos was a valid question, but now it's all a part of the exposure game, it's damn near impossible to generate sales without having a video on heavy rotation, and that's a shame. But you really have to split the blame between the viewers and the network for that one.

There are a whole lot of hairy issues surrounding where the network stands, viewership on "the real world" skyrocketed as the show became more salatious, and subsequent programming has become more so. The network has become a pg13 version of girls gone wild, one has to wonder about the influence on young women and men. As the focus shifts more from music and more into "shocking" reality tv, it's merits dwindle daily.

MTV2 has 120minutes and subterranean, which do show a lot of underground and independent music. There are significant blocks of time dedicated to music on the fringe.

MTV was damn near as perfect as you could get for a "music" channel from '81 -'85. Then being sold to time Warner it became just another tool for the corporate yahoos. MTV2 has its moments, but they are few and far between. I used to like the Canadian version Much Music for a few years but no longer get it on my satellite.

For those that have the opportunity, check out MTV International, has the best stuff, indie, et al from all over Asia, Europe, Pacific Rim. Hard to get though. But it is run entirely indeoendent from the Corporations mostly, and shows the underground and avant garde groups/directors like MTV did in the early '80's.

In fact, I highly reccomend getting any International channels you can, music, news, sports, cultural, etc. You will see the perspective of the rest of the World vs. the sanitized crap we get here at home. 98% of what the US gets media-wise is pure, packaged crap!

I used to watch MTV and MTV2, also VH1. But... I like rock, and all they ever play is rap and pop, and then if that isnt the case, its real world or road rules. It could be half decent, if they werent so... "pop-y".

Also, what programming it has is idiotic now... I mean come on, arent we hitting like, road rules 4,214,024,124,743th edition?

MTV doesn't have to try very to compete with alternative television. If your a teen in college, its entertaining because its not the news or sports. It's just kids having fun which is the entire allure to the channel.

I am interested in how MTV stands in the whole food chain. You're thinking along the same lines as me , George Z. Looking at the whole consolidation puzzle, with vertical integration of distribution channels and production, Viacom stands apart and we have to think it through. Viacom alone has no record labels. (leaving aside Paramount Famous Music Publishing)

I spent a great deal of time in Paramount Film ten years ago, and they were discussing the revival of Dot Records. It wasn't followed up--no one can start a new label, and Paramount had the opportunity to see Disney squander $100 million in Hollywood Records. So Viacom didn't place that piece of the puzzle in the hogs-to-sausage killing floor; ie, soundtracks from their hit movies and TV shows.

But the other path was an interesting choice, to buy MTV. MTV is hands-down the most hated enemy of the record executives, and ranks right up there with the Betamax debacle as the biggest mistake of all time.

Think about it; WE pay YOU to advertise our product? And you (MTV) get free programming? That thought alone has blinded music executives to an unreasonable extent to ever utilze technology and to prevent another Vietnam from ever happening again. Strangle 'em in the crib and ask questions later.

Now at this point, I cannot speak particularly of MTV's programming choices. I don't watch it. I am not 12 years old. Its blatant Tweenie manipulation is nauseating. On the music side, like Rolling Stone, they sold out to the Tweenie pop market; Britney Spears on the cover.

On the production budget side, as they ceased running music videos, they were first to position reality prgramming, game shows and cheesy beach series.

No writers to pay, cheap production values, and using non-actors. Especially noteworthy the invention of here-today-gone-tomorrow hacks & cheaply-paid Tom Green and Carson Daly. Unfortunately, Disney and everyone else got on the reality show kick and beat it to death, and advertisers have fled screaming.

What can MTV do to stay relevant? They need not predict trends. They are just sausage products of the top-down creative decisions of the record labels and star making machine. Seems to me that the Popstar Contests are eating MTV's lunch; THAT is how tomorrow's pops stars are being found, and MTV will watch helplessly as the TV networks marginalize them. I wouldn't invest a dime in MTV's stock.

dudeitsmason, mtv2 did bring back headbanger's ball, if you're into that kind of thing.

ok George ...will give you one month for novelty alone..but not one nanosecond past one month.

like they say that a movie never lives up to the book...i doubt the MTV or MTV2 videos every live up to those I have already produced in my mind...there is one exception..that Bonnie Tyler TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE HEART..."Turn around bright eyes.." I like those darn angel looking characters.... and Bonnie's feathered hair do...

Reckon Heaven is like that Bonnie Tyler video? Dunno...just hope none of those burning eyes people is there..reminds me of The Matrix REVOLUTIONS..saw it last night...good!

ok...I just read Tom's post..changed my mind...if MTV is hated by record execs..
then I love it..more MTV I say...
turning it on now..

MTV sux poo

VH1 sux poo

I only watch either of those to watch viva la bam and i love the 80s cuz you hear more music on i love the 80s than you do an entire day watching MTV

i love the 80s is great, but michael ian black sux

"they went downhill AFTER the first time they played the video VIDEO KILLED THE RADIO STAR"...I don't know if anyone else got this joke so i'll explain it. it's funny cuz thats the very first music video MTV played, lol. and its true, it went downhill from day 1., both MTV and VH-1. Now you have to get the MTV-2/VH1 /archives/classics/megahits (whatever its called) just to see a music video at all. I just got the VH1 megahits channel, which came free with a price hike from Adelphia. At first I thought it was cool because it had been so long since I had seen a music video. After watching it on and off all week, I can safely say that they play the same 20 or so videos with maybe a random one mixed in every 3-4 hours (maybe longer). Music video as a media form is dead.

I would rather be deaf AND blind than watch MTV 1 or 2, VH1, or that country channel! VH1 Classic is ok, but I'd rather watch Andy Griffith or All In The Family re-runs!

i usually like musique plus, seen some good videos on there, more often then much music

I got the Video Killed The Radio Star pun even though MTV is only availlable in Canada on digital. Music videos make me dizzy and gives me an heachache with their kaleidoscopic camera angles. Why show one scene for a nanosecond? The visual often have nothing to d with the song. My all-time favourite music video pre-dates MTV: Dreadlock Holiday by 10CC.

I remember when MTV first came out, they were the t.v station of the day. MTV was like a household name. You would go to school and talk about the latest videos that just came out.

Now all MTV shows is crap, crap and more crap. Haven't watched MTV since they stopped doing what they did best and that was show music videos.

Throws MTV along with the RIAA into the recycle bin

My college aged daughters outgrew mtv by the time they were 12. And I am not sure if there even was a good month's worth of viewing. Code...those angelic looking things in Bonnie Tyler's fantastic video remind me of the Village of the Damned kids...but then I am strange.

And while we're at it, what the hell happened to Rolling Stone???? Jessica Simpleton is on the cover this week...in underwear and highheels pushing a swiffer wetjet mop. When I recall some of the incredible covers of the past, it makes me want to cry.

MTV is the RIAA and any other advertisers wet dream when it comes to pushing crap that we don't want or need down unsuspecting and ignorant teenagers throats because at this point in their lives they don't understand all of the money and greed behind the culture of it.. I stopped watching MTV when all the music started being the same old shit boy bands and brittany spears wannabees while having to sit through the real world in which a bunch of cry baby jerk offs bitch and moan about how they can't get along with their roomates and how much they hate getting a free mansion to live in for 6 months. Please, give me a fucking break...

They should do a documentary on True Life called, "I've been sued by the RIAA, and i'm struggling to make ends meet". This would be a good REAL WORLD show, but MTV won't do that because they are practically synonomous with the RIAA...

I only watched 2 shows: Headbangers Ball & 120 Minutes. They did bring back a reincarnated Headbangers Ball though.

Rolling Stone's new editor was the editor for one of those guy magazines.. Stuff or FM or something like that thats why you got the pornagraphic covers.

If you want real music, it is my humble opinion that you must seek underground.

Or you can always listen to the opinion of others mainstream ideas, and share your identity. Of course you are going to get sued, but isn't "futhering the dreams of the artist", worth that kind of effort?

yep...headbangers ball and 120 minutes bro!! i rarely watch MTV now cause its just plain sell-out. they need to change theirn name b/c they barely have anything to do with music.

MTV2 is a bit more bearable with the new Headbanger's ball, concerts and what-not...but only by the skin of its teeth.

the 'M' in MTV should stand for money instead of music.

The day MTV hit the air, was the day, music truely died. I feel for the kids, who never knew a world without MTV. It took the imagination out of music, for the listener.

It is also turning most of our children into sheep. Sad, so Sad. Part of the dumbing down of America.

I really wish MTV would take a little more responsability for it's programing. Most of there shows, have content that shouldn't be viewed by children under the age of 17, in my opinion. MTV seems to think thay have an older audience, but reallity, most of thier viewers are under 15 years of age. Yet MTV still promotes videos, and shows that have images, and subjects, unsuitable for young people, in my opinion. I was completely pissed off, one day, when I came home to find my 12 year niece watching MTV with my 8 year old daughter. It wasn't that they were watching MTV, it was what was being shown, in the middle of the day, to our young children. They were watching "Road Rules" or something like that, and it showed these young adults drinking at a night club, which is no biggie, but then they started showing one guy acting like he was humping the floor, then showed two men kissing each other(that is a rated G account of what they were showing). My 8 year old then asked the question" Why are those men kissing each other?". My only answer was , "Go to your room, you are not allowed to watch MTV ever again".I didn't know what to say,so I excercised my right as a parent, but it's time for MTV to take a little more responsability for thier programing. Young "Tweeners"(as someone called them) should not be viewing stuff like this, and MTV should not be showing filth like that in the middle of the day, for young kids to see.

Another problem I have, is MTV spends most of it's time promoteing some of the worst music ever made, and along with it, a culture of greed, violence, sex, vanity, and complete stupidity. I thought the music I listened to was a bad influence when I was a kid, but it's tame compared to todays standards.

It's time they put the "M" back in in MTV, and shit-can all thier stupid shows, as well as start playing some REAL music.