New Site Promotes Dialogue on Both Sides of P2P
November 03, 2003:

A new site meant to foster working relationships between all sides in the p2p file sharing wars has just gone online.

IMIRA (International Music Industry Reform Association - http://www.imira.org) is the brainchild of Bill Evans who founded Boycott-RIAA.com which, possibly more than any other site, has focused international attention on a music industry controlled by the Big Five record labels to the practical exclusion of all else.

The Rio sport is listed on Amazon

"It's now time to move on," says Evans. "IMIRA will provide a middle ground. Issues centering on music, consumer and artist rights and concerns can be discussed freely and openly, and by parties from all sides. IMIRA will promote discussion on a music industry that takes market, customer and artist concerns and interests equally into account."

The subpoena war used by the record labels' RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) to relentlessly terrorize people it claims infringe copyrights by sharing music online has achieved little else other than to alienate people around the world, says Evans, going on:

"It's time for everyone within the music industry, smaller and independent labels included, to start taking advantage of the tremendously exciting opportunities p2p (peer-to-peer) file sharing offers listeners, music-makers and business people on- and offline."

Evans says IMIRA is now looking for article submissions and editorials from consumers and artists, both major label and independents. "We'll keep your name confidential if people want it that way, and names and contact information will NEVER be given out, sold or added to any list without clearly stated prior permission," he promises.

Working with him is p2pnet.net's Jon Newton (http://www.p2pnet.net).

"Any number of potentially viable solutions exist," Newton says. "But every one of these has its own advocates and to the considerable benefit of the major record labels, they're frequently at odds with each other and out of synch with the realities of artist, business and consumer needs.

"Musicians and the on- and offline music loving public must now start working together to drag the record labels into the new millennium. We hope we can help them do this with IMIRA."

Forums will be open and free for anyone, anywhere, no matter which side of a particular fence they're on.

Although there's no membership fee, and no charges, "We can use all the help we can get," Evans says. "$1 or $100 - anything you can contribute will will be great. If you can't afford anything, welcome anyway."

For more information:

Bill Evans: 215 825-7616 (email press@imira.org)
Jon Newton: 206 347-6068 (email p2pnet@p2pnet.net)

This is great news, I went and joined immediately. The format is quite nice, and the profiles are extensive. I'm glad to see Bill again, the sites really great, good job both of you.

Good to see Bill's keeping himself busy, however, I will not ever buy Big 5 music again(or RIAA labels...)

I am now a member over there.

I, unlike tasadar24, WILL buy that music again. As a matter of fact, if I had money right now, I would buy a few CDs. It's because I don't want to see the best local place for music go out of business. I DON'T want to go to Wal-Mart for music ever again. I went to buy another copy of Nirvana's Nevermind album (old one got ruined), and they had cut out the most important track on the whole CD. The bonus track is the most intriguing piece of art by Nirvana ever, and now I have to get another copy from Strawberries. The reason I support Strawberries is because they are level-headed. If you walk into Strawberries in Norwich, CT, you will see tickets for sale from local bands. No matter where they are playing, no matter who they are, the tickets are for sale. Now if only these artists would print a couple hundred CDs, they'd sell out. Enough rambling. Gotta get down to some business.

I joined it also.I will not leave boycott riaa"ever "but it is a really nice site and I am always looking for new and more information on the RIAA and the music buisness. I am still and will continue to

BOYCOTT !!!!

*Note- The following comment is from me, personally, and NOT speaking for this site.
_____________________________
As for me, personally, I am not for forming bridges, establishing a working dialog, getting all parties to the table,
kissing Cary Sherman's backside, or looking for any money from them, or any such conciliatory nonsense or words of appeasement.

I am not for anyone who appears to be doing this.

The RIAA knows EXACTLY where I stand, and where the admins of this site stand.

It is my decision to avoid ANY dealings with that site. I shall not give them my name, my five dollars (the "suggested" setup fee) or one dollar or one penny.
I will have NO dealing with Mr. Evans site.

I am in this fight, and I do mean fight, to oppose the RIAA, not give them aid and comfort.

I am proud...let me say that again...
I am PROUD to be associated with Leflaw, Tom Barger, and George Z. I KNOW what they are doing. I KNOW where they stand, and I know what their goals are. I KNOW what their agenda is in this matter.

They are for YOUR RIGHTS. They OPPOSE the RIAA. They oppose the DMCA.

I belong to other sites and forums and contribute to those fine places, as well as to my own sites.

I have a finite amount of time and energy, and I personally choose to support the people and places that are working to defeat these tyrannical regimes, not find a friggn' "middle ground".

Sorry folks, but that's my two bits just from me personally.

Thank you for listening.
~CodeWarrior

by the way, didn't TechTV copyright "MUSIC WARS" when they did that special...or is it up for grabs by anyone and everyone to use?

I admire Bill and all, but I just don't think the RIAA deserves "meaningful dialogue" at this point.

The organization lies, cheats the artists, steals their copyrights, and has done nothing for the last three years except attack music fans.

While we're at it, let's have some meaningful dialogue with Charles Manson, or Sadaam, or Osama Bin Runnin.

lol...now THAT's the kind of attitude I support 100 percent.

Agreed. We'll talk reasonably as soon as they act like they deserve it.

To me when the enemy (RIAA) comes to kill, steal, & destroy you do not sit down with them and try and work things out. You go out meet them head on and crush them like the insects they are. The RIAA needs to be annihilated and done away with. Their services are no longer required. The RIAA has declared War on the music loving community. It is time for US to fight back with all the zeal and passion that we can bring to the battle field. They may be a big corporation (Goliath) but we have NO FEAR(David) and we know how this story ends. Remember Joshua 6:1-27. The walls of Jericho came tumbling down after 7 days and the injust walls of the RIAA will come down as well. Just be diligent and strong.

The only thing evil needs to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything.

Peace Brothers & Sisters

and to add a little old East Texas wit to that fine comment John...
"you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas"

code: lol. that made me laugh this fine morning. What is Bill Evans up to? Why should we try and have dialogue with the enemy when they are taking people to court? They do not care about anyone but themselves.

Just tried to pull up his site...
http://www.imira.org/
All I got was...

Fatal error: Call to undefined function: message_die() in /home/imiraor/public_html/db/db.php on line 88

lol..maybe even the server doesn't want to display the page...lol , even computers hate the RIAA

Have a great day John..God bless you.

ok...it's back up.
back to your usual programming

I have a bad taste in my mouth and this thread makes me feel dirty. Code, you're becoming quite the demagogue. This is not one of your better moments. You have many, but this isn't one of them. I feel like you're using your cultish influence here to supress any views that even slightly oppose yours, this is quite different from when you were just one of us, posting here and being supportive of all those who had something to add, now you're being a bully. You're freaking me out. I'm not certain that your "with us or against us" and "I am not for anyone who appears to be doing this." stance is the right one to take, especially for someone who is now a site admin, or whatever.

Sadly,

Paul

Thank you for your input Paul.
It's obvious you have disagreed with on many occasions. I express my views.
I admit I am opinionated, but, you know what, that's just me. You seem to be establishing an ongoing theme to your posts in my threads of finding fault with me personally. I am not attacking you, and will not. I just think that we need to work together, and beyond that, I really have no other comment to what is clearly an ad hominem attack, except to say if I am freaking you out, you must get "freaked out" easily.
lol...
Loosen up Paul, life is too short to get torqued up at every little thing in my opinion.
PS...if you would READ the very first line of my post..it says :
"*Note- The following comment is from me, personally, and NOT speaking for this site."

as a PPS, I cannot, and actually, care not, to try to make every one like me, or agree with me. If you do not agree with, or even, don't like me, that's a shame, but not something I can help.

I'm just wishing you the best Paul,
and that's real, not sarcasm.

code, I want to work with you too, but it's unsettling when a thread is going along, various viewpoints get expressed and then this unusually scathing post by you slips in, virtually smearing bill's site (which isn't nearly as bad as you think it may be) and then the next posts fall right in line and every other post is from you, supporting their negative opinion of the site.

In all fairness, I'm not torqued up about everything you say, the majority of the things you post are fantastic, but you seem really hell bent lately on making sure that everyone falls in line with the death to riaa mantra. And, like I said, your post was uncharacteristically harsh. I only take exception to your posts in relation to your job as a pps because of the influence that you have with people here, believe it or not, these folks would follow you through the flames of hell without question. That's a tricky position to be in, threads tend to radically change direction when you post in them. Many people will read your post and just say, "well, code won't go there, so neither will I!" The disclaimer did little to soften the blow.

I think that Bill is after something different than the direction this site is going in, he's talking about things there that go way beyond p2p, he's trying to work with people inside and outside the recording industry to help map the future of it. to make it more fair, to figure out a way to make whatever comes next more equitable than what happens now. I can't fault him for that. Anything that happens there will not hurt our cause here, but what happened here could hurt his there.

I'm not trying to "attack" you, as you say, I'm expressing disappointment in your choice of words and your personal distaste for all things Bill, I don't get it, I think it's below you and I think, whether you know it or not, it does influence the people here who tend to hang on your every word. Because of that I think you have a responsibility to be more even handed with your comments as you have been in the past.

I don't get freaked out easily, I let a lot of things slide, but I do think, given that we're all in the house Bill built, that we at least all owe him a "good luck" and leave it at that. Just as we did when you left and when george left. No one of influence said, "Hey, nobody go to that troublemaker, code's site, he's a bad egg and I won't support anyone that supports him!"

I wish you the best, too, code, sometimes we're going to agree on things sometimes not, most of the time I'm right with you, in some cases I'm going to take exception, and vice versa. I think that's healthy now and then. Thing is, when I agree with you, I don't feel the need to reply, because I agree and have nothing to add.

Your influence here is the greatest, try to remember that when you comment on things is all I ask, you have potential to bring balance to all the issues here, I like it when you do that, I get a little unsettled when you beat the drums, even if it's just your opinion.

I think highly of you, so I have to be more critical of the semantics you use.

I should probably watch my tone, too, I probably could've phrased things better.

But I ask that you re-read this thread and your post and tell me if you think this was a fair way to react to Bill's site. Seriously. No one's going to think any less of you if you change your mind.

Let's help each other out here,

Paul

Paul:
I appreciate your comments, and to other posters, I apologize we have gotten off course, but I want to try to answer Paul's comments.

Paul, I have five decades of life under my belt (soon to be 5 plus one year).
I've been like I am now for all the time I have been aware of things.

It is not unusual for people to misunderstand things I say, because I say so much . And, I want to make something very clear. I have nothing against Bill. You may remember it was I who did the writeup of his appearance on TechTV. I should hope that Bill and I could disagree about these things without resorting to unfriendliness. But, if that cannot happen, I will just not communicate on these matters.

I really meant my comments to be more broadly interpreted, that indeed, I am against the RIAA, and do not advocate working with them, and do not want to dialogue with, and for that reason, I don't support any site that APPEARS to do that, and I am talking about ANY site. If this one advocated that approach I would probably leave. So, I was trying to explain how I feel about that approach, and my reasons for not supporting any person or any site, that appears to be softening in their resolve that the RIAA needs to disappear.

I also do not claim to have any and all answers, for ANYTHING. I never have, and never will. Actually I don't think ANYONE has all the answers for such an intricate problem.

I actually exchanged several emails one on one with a very influential former record producer last night, who was adamant that what the people sharing MP3s were thieves, plain and simple.
I of course, was stressing that it is NOT theft, and certainly should not be called "piracy". To him, it was clear, they were stealing money from him, and were thieves, and he was kind of upset that I would suggest we stick to the term "copyright infringement".

Again, I re-read my post, and I was making a broad comment on sites in general which would not strongly oppose the RIAA and call for its dissolution. IT IS NOT, AND WAS NOT A PERSONAL AND SPECIFIC OPPOSITION TO ONE SITE ALONE OR SPECIFICALLY. And, it was based on my own feelings, which are certainly true as far as I am the best judge of how I feel about things.

I like Bill, but believe he has taken an approach which I do not agree with, as I understand his approach, but that's MY opinion. I imagine a lot of people agree with his position on this issue, just not me. I wish him all the best with what he is doing, and did not mean to slight him personally, nor his site.

Now, I really want to put a good ending on this Paul, so here's my suggestion. I propose that you and I work together, as I am trying to work with everyone here, to do what is right for the consumers and citizens.

I promise I will not expect any certain behavior from you, nor judge you personally from what you say, and I promise to try to be cordial, and in any disagreements, to be as objective and positive as I can be, and to respect your opinion, but not necessarily to agree with it.

In return, I just ask reciprocation from you, to extend to me the same as I extend to you. Don't expect me to act in any certain way, respect my opinion without having to agree with it, and try to be cordial and positive even when we do disagree.

I think that is reasonable, I think that is fair, and I think if we ALL did that, we could get a lot of things accomplished, and at the same time , make this journey more enjoyable.

I'm extending a virtual hand for a virtual handshake...if that's cool with you.

With that, I want to go on to some of the more pressing issues confronting all of us.

Thanks again, and best wishes.
~CodeWarrior

Fair enough.

Paul