dc.internet.com/news/article.php/3092661


Hatch: P2Ps Are Child Porno Central
By
October 16, 2003


In a twisted turn of unintended consequences, the enormous success of the Internet as a distribution vehicle for pornography has created competitive pressures among smut purveyors to provide more depictions than ever of children engaging in violent and deviate sexual conduct.

John G. Malcolm, deputy assistant attorney general in the Criminal Division of the Justice Department, told the Senate Judiciary Committee Wednesday afternoon that the "proliferation of this material and the desire by pornographers to differentiate themselves in a highly-competitive market have prompted pornographers to produce ever-more offensive materials."

Malcolm said that in addition to child pornography, depictions "glorifying" bestiality, scatology and rape are "readily available" and "aggressively marketed" on the Internet.

"Because the Internet has popularized the trade in child pornography, there has been a surge in demand and a corresponding surge in production of child pornography," Malcolm said.

Malcolm cited a recent survey by the National Society of the Prevention of Cruelty of Children stating that approximately 20,000 images of child pornography are posted to the Internet every week. He added that the study indicates that about half of new images appearing on the Internet depict children between the ages of 9-12 years-of-age and the rest are younger.

"We must never forget that each image represents the rape of a child. Each image is a tragedy and a gruesome memorial of trauma, abuse, powerlessness and humiliation that will be with that child for the rest of his or her life."

While Wednesday's witnesses focused on Web sites featuring Internet child pornography, Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch singled out peer-to-peer (P2P) networks as the most pernicious purveyors of online child pornography.

"I am currently considering legislative solutions to the many risks inherent in the use of peer-to-peer networks. Almost half of the people who use these networks are minors," Hatch said. "Recent studies have shown that millions and millions of pornographic files are available for downloading on these networks at any given time."

While P2P networks have come under criticism from Congress and the recording industry for music copyright violations, Hatch said the distribution of child pornography through file sharing deserves immediate attention.

"This is simply unacceptable. Many parents -- possibly the majority of them -- are unaware of this problem," Hatch said. "Even more disturbing is that searches on these networks using search terms that a child would be expected to use, such as Harry Potter or Pokemon, turn up an enormous percentage -- over 50 percent in one study according to the General Accounting Office -- of pornographic materials including child pornography."

Malcolm dodged the P2P issue but agreed that "offensive material that used to be largely unavailable to average citizens and children" is now largely unavoidable.

"Far from being hidden in brown paper bags behind the counters of disreputable stores, offensive material is now readily available to anyone with an Internet connection within a matter of minutes with a few clicks of a computer mouse, accessed by unsuspecting children and by adults who had no intention to seek such material and no desire to view it," Malcolm said.

The decentralized nature of P2P networks, which allow users to download and directly share electronic files independent of a central server, has raised concerns among lawmakers and law enforcement officials that child pornography is spreading through the networks at an alarming rate. A number of reports have linked child pornography with pedophiles.

Since Napster, the first widely popular P2P program, was shut down by court order, newer file-sharing programs like Kazaa, Grokster and BearShare have all surged in popularity and have become one of the most popular applications on the Internet, particularly among children and young adults.

Unlike Napster, which allowed only the sharing of music files, the newer P2P networks allow the sharing of digital images.

The March GAO report cited by Hatch conducted a Kazaa search for image files using 12 keywords known to be associated with child pornography on the Internet. Of 1,286 items identified in the search, approximately 42 percent were associated with child pornographic images. The remaining items included 34 percent that were classified as adult pornography and 24 percent as non-pornographic.

In another Kazaa search, the U.S. Customs CyberSmuggling Center used three keywords to search for and download child pornography image files. The search identified 341 image files, of which approximately 44 percent were classified as child pornography and 29 percent as adult pornography.





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You can go to any search engine and find child pornography, but we don't ban Yahoo, Google, Alta Vista, and Lycos across the nation.

This is so much crap. I just did a search on eDonkey for 'Harryp Potter' and 'Pokemon' and whilst Pokemon did return the odd 'few' unsavory items. NONE of the search results and I repeat NONE returned anything to do with child pr0n.

However if you search for 'Britney' you will find lots of pr0n. But we all know Britney has been sold as a musical prostitute by the music industry anyhow so that's no big deal

Who are these guys kidding? The Hatch'ett man is suffering from senile demintia.

Down the Hatch!

IMHO:

Senator Hatch, who addressed the Future of Music conference as a technology advocate in 2002, and who thereafter decided it was better to blow up downloaders' computers remotely, must go.

hatch knows porn! He must deal in it quite a bit to keep coming up with these crazy notions. Maybe he is the problem?

I agree the guy is totally clueless! Someone should tell him about news groups. lmao

I agree with leflaw.
U nite
T he
A mericans (against)
H atch

I wonder how hatch knows so much about this? Pete Townsend was pretty well versed on this issue and look what it got him, I wonder if oral hatch can look forward to the same treatment?

Usually, those who fight this hard against pr0n have a secret to hide..

Anyone remember Peach in St. Louis??

I don't remember Peach, but I'm from St. Louis. Weird.


They want to kill P2P, yet it's video cameras that are responsible for the filming of them.

It's sick old men that are responsible for producing it.

And Electro-N is right. You can find anything in any search engine on the internet.

Here's a theory:

The people searching for it are the problem.

And Hatch, I thought this was about music "piracy"? Why are you looking up child porn? Get distracted after you logged on Kazaa?

Ya know, Hatch, p2p != the Internet. On the Net, pr0n can be very aggressive in bringing itself to you. On p2p (at least the p2p i've used in the past), you have to actively look for it. I never thought of that before aaron..usually those who go on these 'holy crusades' have some skeletons in their closet. Wonder what Hatch's are (just the name brings a few unsavory things to mind, but this is a family website ).
Anyway, nope, not buying it. I see through the smokescreen and scapegoating you're doing for your cartel masters, Hatch. Do not pass Go.

The surveys do seem exagerated. Ive run a few searches that might be popular with children, and found very little porn.

There was ways to bias surveys which I can see have been used. I suspect a very wide definition of porn was used, includeing the parodies and the mild hantai-parody images (Those digimon fans must have seriously twisted minds). Even some comics could be classed as porn with a wide enough definition.

While the conventional porn industry is muttering quietly about competition from the internet, it has made it easier to find the less conventional varieties. Ive not actively looked for it, but just browseing ive seen that almost every perversion imagionable can be found somewhere online. Hatch does have a point there. But his implication that its p2p that causes the problem is false, its just as easy to find porn on the web or usenet.

Hey,

This is just using P2P as a scapegoat. The internet as well.

Who wants porn? Well, apparently everybody! Otherwise the industry would not thrive as it does.

American citizens:
Direct porn
Pay porn stars
Film porn
Sell porn
Give away porn
Force porn on our computers
Love porn on their computers
Want more porn
Download porn on p2p
Download porn off the web
Watch porn with friends
Watch porn alone
Film themselves in "the act"
Listen to sexual lyrics in music
Can't wait for the first episode of "Skin"
Have collectively supported increasingly lax tv censorship of sexual themes/content.
Watch sexual commercials
Make sexual commercials
Tell friends about their favorite sexual commercial
Make Sharon Stone popular just for being in Basic Instinct.


Porn on P2P?
Say it isn't so, moron!!

The "porn industry" being on P2P and pop up windows and in your emails is just the tip of the iceberg. Granted everybody hates spam emails, but you all get my point I hope.

If you want to stop pornography in all of it's forms, you must attack the source: Hollywood. (oh, irony..)

he's a puppet for the RIAA. a man with great power in the senate judiciary committee with a a lot of clout. the strings that the RIAA uses and the ventriloquist act of RIAA words that he utters in the senate are dangerous, because when orrin speaks, everybody listens in the senate. this man is dead on getting p2p out of america and is making a design of it by saying the future of america's children being theatened by p2p and porn. hatch and the RIAA is out to destroy the p2p nets at all costs and good ol' orrin's CD will be a number 1 hit in the good ol' U.S. of A. thanks to a liitle promoting promise from his good ol' friends of the RIAA. i can see them now at a power lunch scheming on how to destroy the p2p nets with the dream of the DMCA act and the HR2517 act terrorizing the american people and extorting them with threats "settle or we will sue". this act is a low blow by the RIAA and having orrin hatch in their back pocket is no good because they will present ANYHING to promote the HR2517 act into law, thus enforcing nazi like tactics on the people and the internet.

ps -

p2p doesn't make it popular. society does.

What does it say about the citizens of Utah that they keep sending this doofus back to Congress to do more damage to our nation?

That 51% or more of people in Utah are blithering idiots.

I work for an organization that combats internet child pornography on a daily basis. The international child pornography laws are not so cut and dry. I think Hatch needs to educate himself on international child pornography laws before he starts attacking p2p. A good start would be here:

http://www.usis.usemb.se/children/csec/child_pornography.html

First of all The federal child pornography statute, 18 U.S.C. 2246, defines "child pornography" as "any visual depiction" of a minor under 18 years old engaging in "sexually explicit conduct" which includes "actual or simulated sexual intercourse, bestiality, masturbation, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area." The statute's definition includes not only actual depicitons of sexually explicit conduct involving minors, but also images that "appear to be" minors engaging in sexually explicit conduct. This does not include nude pictures of children.

Secondly most of the "child pornography" sites reside on servers outside of the USA. The age of majority differs from country to country and in some cases even from state to state within the US. For instance if the server hosting these pictures is in Denmark the age of majority is 15 years of age. This would not constitute child ponography in the US.

As I have found working with this organization child pornography, as defined internationally, really is not so "readily available" and "aggressively marketed".

Get a clue Hatch!

Hatch would be more believable if he actually believed in his cause. he's against P2P a whole lot more than he is against child Porn.

Orrin Hatch is nothing more than a hipacrit. He protects the RIAA which promotes pornography but goes after P2P for pornography. Look around you and see what would classify as porography. I bet I can find alot of things that would fall under the porography rule. We have come to the age where when 1 person does something bad it's a crime but if another person does something bad, it's in the best interest of the community.

I wonder how these surveys are being conducted. I mean, if they type in 'child porn' and count the number of ones that says '14yo with daddy' then there is obviously a problem. Half the files on Kazaa or any other P2P network are misnamed by ignorant people who think it makes them kewl to make someone download something they never wanted to begin with. For instance, i recently did a search for a group called Lagoona (TSEC from a long long time ago) on Kazaa to find an older song of theirs called Telescope. I got about 30 returns labeled as being Lagoona/TSEC - Telescope. Over half of them were not the song i was hoping for. So i think they need to stat releasing the methods they are using to conduct these surveys.

Also, i've never seen any definative proof that pornographic images positively have negative effects on children. Hell, just a hundred years ago or so, it was common for girls to marry as early as 12 to 14. And that society of old men marrying young women didn't spawn a string of homicidal rapist whores, and men who felt it neccisary to play with little boys.

I'm going totally off-topic for an instant to point out one phrase from the article.

"Almost half of the people who use these networks are minors," Hatch said.

So...
Either Hatch hasn't shared his information with the RIAA...
OR...
The RIAA is out on a litigation bloodfest knowing full well that half of its potential victims are minors.

Back on topic...
You don't need P2P to find porn on the internet.

If you have an e-mail address, they'll find you.

Funny how Hatch never mentions that just about every popular p2p program has a filter from "offensive" material. I guess he must've left that option on purposely when he did his search for Harry Potter III: Advent of the Sexorcist.

Or both

Someone really needs to do a full survey, with downloads, but the idea of spending five hours looking at the sickest perversions on the internet is not my idea of a good time. Anyone here want to do it? We need numbers, and we need good numbers. We also need to make the survey look respectable enough and document everything. Not hard, just time consumeing, and it would require looking at far too much porn.

I NEVER worry about anyone finding porn on Kazaa here on my computer. Images and videos CAN be PASSWORD blocked on Kazaa, and I have always had them blocked, so they won't even show up as hits, let alone be downloaded. What I do worry about though, is when they are on Internet Explorer (Microsoft, go figure) the number of sites that porn pop-ups affect! My Zone Alarm stops them quite well, but that is not the point. The internet is NOT child safe, but I can make Kazaa to where I am not worried about them finding porn. Images and videos WILL NOT appear if password blocked!

If Hatch wants to do something about child porn, he really needs to start with Internet Explorer, Netscape, etc. And search engines that are on them. The problem is EXTREME there, not on p2p!

goldenpi -- Isn't that how Pete Townshend got arrested? Don't do it in the U.K.

I know it has been said before but no one has mentioned the dreaded mtv in this thread yet. There you will find it in all it's slendor for all the children to see. Thank you riaa for corrupting this generation...

Maybe G Hatch has been doin' the groovin' to the thuglies and it warped his grey matter...

I hate to say this-but as most of you know, im a staunch republican.
having said that....orrin really makes me wanna switch parties.
hes always been a poorly researched loudmouth.
Please dont let his senile madness reflect on all republicans.
Hey, i got a better idea, instead of me switching parties...how bout we just throw the bad apple outta ours.
Orrin, you make me sick-and im as conservative at it comes.
PS-i have let his 'staff' know this, several times.

~time flies~

RIAAposterchild

You are SO right about MTV! I hate that damn channel so much, (and MTV2, and even VH1) that I have them blocked on my Direct TV. No way is anyone going to watch any of that sh*t on my tv! I used to check into the channels occasionally just to see if the same old rap and hip-hop garbage was on them, and sure enough, same sh*t! My kids definately did NOT grow up watching that crap! At other people's houses they may have at times, watched things I forbid here, but I can't control the world.

Knowing what is on there is shocking, and no child should be allowed to watch that crap! I haven't even checked the channels out for months now, so I don't know how much worse it is now, but I know it could not have improved!

Hollywood, I believe, is nearly 100% responsible for the corruption of our children. I don't know what pisses me off more, Hollywood, that produces thug sh*t like MTV, and R-rated gore and sex movies that they know and do not care that children see, or parents who are STUPID enough to let their kids watch them! Hollywood DOES NOT care about children and their easily influenced minds, but neither do WAY too many parents!

sorry to rant

Two words: Family Filter.

I wonder what the hell child porn has anything to do with the RIAA's witch hunt against p2p sharing to begin with. Plus, for anyone to do a survey as suggested by goldenpi you would have to have it backed by ASACP and any other organizations out there devoted to fighting child porn.

The RIAA was the one who first made the "link."

I don't know how they can be sure there is child porn on Kazaa.

With music, they can search and download it. They own the copyrights. They can verify the content of the file that way.

With child porn, they can search, but to the best of my knowledge there is a 'one click and you're guilty' policy.

Whoever mentioned them counting all the files with names like '14 year old, blah blah' is right. Go on kazaa and type 'sex' or something. I'm pretty sure you'd get back basically what you'd expect. But descriptions are littered with stuff like that.

If the RIAA says there is child pornography on P2P:

1. Their statements are completely unfounded
2. Their methods of determining the presence of the material is flawed pretty bad.
3. They have been looking at it themselves.

Emeraude - I agree with you. I'm 21, no kids. But television in my house will be strictly monitored. I don't give a damn about video games. Those never hurt anybody. Television shows (even more than movies) are supposed to portray themselves as realistic.

I do believe that seeing pornography at a young age can affect kids. But here's the catch:

A kid watching a hardcore porn once in his life will not be NEARLY as damaged as a kid watching suggestive television all the time.

When you combine the content, suggestion, etc etc. in every single aspect of everything on television, I believe that creates a much much more warped sense of reality for that child than for the one who stumbled upon some porn. I think most of the guys here probably 'stumbled' upon porn before we should have. It's television that's the poison.

downwithRIAA -

I share your curiosity. What the hell is the RIAA doing freaking out about porn? Can we investigate them too? Who was the child porn artist they employed? R. Kelly?

Yeah it might be available on P2P
But only after people assosciated with the RIAA (R. Kelly) make it themselves.

He states that many/most parents aren't aware....

Isn't that the problem? How could any parent not take proactive measures to safeguard a preteens surfing habits.

My niece is not allowed on the web unless my brother or sister in-law sits with her and monitors.

If your going to use the "exposure" argument, start your accusations where they SHOULD start. look at the parents. Not many 10 year olds go out and purchase their own systems and acquire net access accounts without anyone's consent.

Orrin Hatch just a know nothing blithering idiot that doesn't know anything about the internet, he just needs to go why do taxpayers keep paying people like him that doesn't know anything about the internet in office. he's just like those preachers from the 80's bashing porn for all he can then gets caught having or doing porn for that very same reason Hmmmm I think a recall would be in the works if I lived it utah I would hate for my money and time wasted on a blithering idiot ranting about porn when the country in general needs real problems solved.are you reading this Orrin I hope so I hope someone in your state reads this and takes up my cause because I sure would
but because I live in arizona your safe from me aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa RRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH
I can't stand you you sound like a hypocrit like Rush.

Oh and btw there is stuff made tailored for the internet so kids can't see or do things take for instance netnanny it don't work if the parents don't educate themselves on protecting their kids on the internet,thats like letting them walk down a bad part of town in the middle of the night with no parent in sight. man that orrin guy can really get under my skin sorry for the rant but thanks for letting me blow off a little steam guys and gals whew.

I have just as big of a problem with kids being able to veiw porn as them veiwing movies and images where people voilently slaughter each other. Hollywood and the RIAA put both out available to kids. My youngset is 17 years old, but I still, and have for years, blocked all adult and R-rated programs, MTV, MTV2, BET, and VH1, and even block access to pictures on my computer when I am not home. I do not regret it one bit. I hope my kids do the same responsible thing for their kids. I just know they will. All of this blocking I do is ANOTHER way I "fight" the intertainment industry.

The internet is fast becoming the land of the government.

And if they can't cut off the HEAD of the hydra known at P2P with copywrite, they have started the wheels turning to crush unlimited knowledge with an even more sinister plan.

So, If P2P gets crushed by this, what is next? Perhaps newsgroups/mIRC/ICQ?

Does anyone believe me now, at this turning point, what I've said all along. The government doesn't give a rats ass about you getting your favorite gem of a song for free, or even if you share it. To them, the idea that you can get anything, from the disturbing speeches of "Malcomb X" to every poignant speech made in congress is what scares the dickens out of them. They would much rather govern an ignorant America, than one with knowledge.

to Emeraude,

I believe you, and applaud you, the parent is in control of the information that a child is subjected with. Please write the esteemed senator Hatch from Utah, and tell him that you have the matter well in hand, and that you will not tolerate his suggestive remarks of further government control over the contents of the World Wide Web.

You see, this is just another reason I hate Republicans.

www.mikemalloy.com

theHERMlT

Thank you! It has not been an easy fight! Stuff kids should not see comes at them in all directions! Being a stay at home mom helped a lot! I couldn't do a lot for my step-son though, his STUPID-ASS mother let him watch WHATEVER (and I do mean WHATEVER) he wanted since he was old enough to put tapes in the VCR, and she thinks it's funny! I could just choke her! As long as she kept him busy so she could go smoke her dope... what a worthless...oops, I'm way off subject, sorry!

This decade has been termed the "naughty noughties" because of the rapid relaxing of the traditional sexual taboos. Look at TV today, compare it with just ten years ago. Even many kids programs would have been judged too extreme then. Hardly a film made which doesn't show some breasts now. Same applies to violence. (Disney attempts to maintain its old super-safe image through, by not puting its name on anything remotely sexual or violent.)

This is rediculous. What do they think they can possibly do about it? Shut down the whole interent and maybe you'll slow it down. But there are always gonna be pervs in contries where its not ilegal doing this sort of thing. Forget about P2P and start changing laws in all the countries its legal.

to be a true pessimist,

I don't think they are about to hatch a plan to completely revoke the internet from the people. The fact is the rest of the WORLD WIDE web is out of their reach for the moment. But I think that the government is aimed at being a big overseeing eye over the internet, in ways that we do not anticipate.