I, Bill Evans, the founder of boycott-riaa, submitted my resignation this morning. I will stay on for two weeks to oversee the transition to the new webmaster (who ever that may be). I will continue to fight the RIAA at every possible turn in my own way.

I would like to thank everyone for the support, donations and words of encouragement they have given the past 3 years and 3 months, during my tenure here. The site will continue in the traditions it has become known for, fightng the RIAA, unspinnng the spin, fighting for artists who are abused by the recording industry and fighting the laws that that make the love of music a crime.

Little will change as the site owner remains the same. (I sold boycott-riaa 2 years ago to keep it alive, rather than closing it down and remained on as webmaster). It is time for me to step aside and let someone else take it to the next level.

It's been real, it's been fun, and sometimes it's been real fun. Sometimes not, but it has always been really interesting.

"So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye"

Bill Evans

NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT THE HECK! I havn't even read your reason why, but your VOICE will be missed! Stop in frequently and see what is going on. I wish you the best

My best memories about this site have to do with talking with you on the phone and being educated by your and George Z. This totally stinks but the site will go on.

what are your future plans bill?

I wish you all the best in your future endeavours, Bill... we'll miss you.

no firm plans as of yet., i'm considering my options

Unfortunatly the RIAA is probably cheering over this announcement or when they get it, you were a huge advocate for the movement.

We must make sure we get a new just as good of leader to keep fighting the FASCIST HEARTLESS RIAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is disturbing

amen george

thank you to you and yours for all the hard work and time

This couldn't come at a worse time. Momentum is beginning to swing our way. I only hope this site will continue to do as much good as it has with you aboard, Mr. Evans. I'm glad to hear you'll continue to fight the RIAA, but can't help being sad, since you and this site is what opened my eyes to the crimes being committed by this organization.

It's a shame to see you go. I wish you could stay to help in the good fight.

Good luck, good webmaster. It will not be the same without you.

Even I don't really know you , but you got something good going here, sorry to hear you leaving. hope the new person whom helms the controls is as good an advocate as you were and still are please do drop in from time to time people who look for guidence look to you about these evil corps. that are railroading music from the people. peace and good luck in your endovers. may the peace force be with you

Who exactly is taking over?

So sorry to hear you are leaving Bill..you will be greatly missed. Good luck to you in the future.

i really hate to see you go...

I have been pretty much observing this site, becoming educated by the injustice of the RIAA. Bill has been at the front lines of this battle.

This is a huge blow to this boycott... First CodeWarrior, and now Bill Evens.

This statement you have made really dissapoints not just myself, but the many many others who have seen the vision of a world without the RIAA festering our sotre shelves with mindless and cookie cutter music. I urge you to reconsider your calling and to not let the drama get to you. This is the time for us to unite and chop down the RIAA puppetmasters.

Don't do this Bill.. You are more of a icon to this fight then you really know...

Bill :
I can only assume you have reasons for this, and knowing you are a sharp fellow, that they are reasons which are for the best.

I want to wish you the very best in whatever you plan to do.

The place will not be the same without ya.

-bulkeraser

the best thing about this site was the difference of opinions, and the free exchange of ideas, i dont know why you are leaving,but i wish you well.
i have noticed that egos have gotten in the way,and we seem to have forgotten why we were here,
we were and are right, what we are fighting for is bigger than anyone of us
hope you reconsider
,
we are only as strong as our weakest member.
i dont post much, but have always been with you all in sprit
hope everyone stays the course

I created a thread for well wishers
who want to say thanks and goodbye to thumbtack. It is in the CodeWarrior's Forum.

Everybody is saying that they are sad to see you go. But not I. Why? Because I don't believe that you are leaving the site. I suspect that we'll see you here and there submitting stories and helping point out the lies. You're letting somebody else run the site, but that doesn't mean that you're leaving.

We'll see you around because it's impossible to give up on a fight that you truly believe in.

A agree with you goofycaca. This whole mess has gotten under our skins so badly it's hard to set it aside, so Bill, we'll see you around! pepe

Well Bill, we've never really talked directly to each other but I've always enjoyed your present. Best of luck on any future endeavers you may puruse.
Farewell for now.

Suikio

I could try to read between the lines here but I don't have enough to go on. It looks as if you have put together a winner in this site and now the investor wishes to in some way cash in. These things happen.

However, be that as it may, I wish to thank you for a wonderful site. Truely, I hope you remain as a member if not as webmaster. Changes are always hard to accept sometimes and the one thing we are certain of is change.

You have been a fantastic webmaster and even the nay-sayers have had their chance. Not every site can say the same.

The best of wishes to you in your future efforts, whatever they may be.

Thank you Bill for all that you have done. May your light always shine brightly in any endeavor you cross!

DONT LEAVE US!!! ( *SNIFFLES*

Bill,

You've done really well here, this site is still the most vocal anti-riaa site I've seen yet and it's all due to your tireless efforts. I thank you for all you've done. I know it hasn't been easy, but I'm sure all of us here agree that it was worth it. Knowing you some, and having an idea of what you'd like to accomplish, I forsee great things ahead, and I promise you, I will be there.

Thanks!

good luck in whatever you decide to do

Sad news... Good luck, and thank you for keeping a good site running.

I nominate directive and code for webmaster.

wait... when did code leave?

They still wont stop us....

i'm a relatively recent registrant of Boycott-RIAA.com and thoroughly support its purpose....

i am having difficulty comprehending and accepting your resignation....

however, i'm quite satisfied that you have "something up your sleeve"....

carry on with the fight, where ever you might choose to land...

and please take my best regards, wishes, and thanks with you...

We paid him off. He is on our side now.

Just kidding. Best of luck to you, Bill. You are a good man.

Bill, I hope you at least hang around and visit! My eyes have really been opened by this site and I have the upmost respect for those who have gone to the trouble of making it available to the rest of us. Best of luck on whatever path your life takes!

Bill

I just want to say thanks for all you've done. I'll say to you what I've said to others, if you're getting out because you want out then that is your decision and I can respect that. I know you've had a pretty thankless run the last few weeks and that can wear a person down fast. All I can do is tell you what a difference you've made (at least to me) i've learned a lot from this site and the people who frequent it. I am grateful for that and I appreciate all you've done. You have my respect and my admiration. Good luck with all of your endeavors in the future. I'm sure you'll post on here from time to time so we'll hear from you again. Thanks again.

This is not heartening news......

Much appreciation Bill, for all you have done, and sincere best wishes for your your future.

This cannot have been an easy decision for you to have made, but know that we all will strive to finish what has been started, to best of our ability. Its still a morale blow to lose you, we will fight on.

Best of luck Bill, and thank you.

~time flies~

tasadar24,
that would be nice, but i someone who is big enough into the fight should take over. I am a big advocate, but no where near as knowledgeable as bill.
What i am thinking is this, i hope that ppl here that post will stick around for years. I plan to be here for years, and hope that others will stick around too. I have been on this site for about 10 months or so, i have so much more to learn and i hope others will continue to learn also.

I don't think this battle will take years to win. And, even if this site falls, another will take its place.
The riaa has upped the ante, and has lost a major PR battle. They have exposed themselves as the heartless (and incredibly dumb) jerks that they are.
They are swimming in a sea of our money. Without further influxes of our cash, that sea will slowly, but surely, dry up. First to a lake, then a puddle, then a dry lake bed - a fitting resting place for extinct dinosaurs.

The Kid

Adios amigo!

May the sun shine in your backdoor one day...

You will be truly missed. I haven't been here all that long, but every post I've seen of yours has been educated. Treat that brain of yours well, and thank you for sharing it with us for those 3 years and three months.

I for one am glad that Bill is leaving. He really never had enough time for this place to make it truely effective. To the powers that be, look if you care that much, look for someone who will do a bit more work than Bill did.

god bless you bill. in the three months i've been on this site, i had the pleasure of learning alot of things that would have taken years to find out about. your contribution to this website is a real godsend to all of us that visit it. i had said in the past that CodeWarrior was one of the cornerstones to this website but you are truly the foundation that holds it all together. good luck in all your endavours and thank you for blessing us with your knowedge and understanding of the RIAA. thank you very much and may god bless you and all us that visit on this site.

We are all entitled to our opinions. I think that the mark of a good webmaster is one that isn't overly demanding.

Thank you, Bill. I didn't mention that in my post above and it seemed sad to part without saying so.

I do wish to say that this site has opened my eyes to what is going on with the music, computer, and movie business. Something that I really needed to be educated in.

Thank you so much for the education.

I was speechless when I first read this post. It's hard to take when the leader of a movement you are heartfelt about makes a decision to move on. I just wanted to let you know Bill, you have opened my eyes to a great many new ideas and a different way of thinking with this site. I wish only the best for you in whatever path life carries you on. I only hope that this website's momentum carries forward as it has of late. Take care Bill!!!!

I don't know what to say. I mean, I guess I understand, but I was shocked to the bone when Code took off. I don't quite understand, but I'm not going to argue because I think you've already made your mind up and nothing any of us say will change it - obviously it didn't work for Code and I expect nothing different here. We who remain will continue to battle on, and I pray you fight the good fight on in your own life, with or without this site. Godspeed to you my friend!!

Zeon
I will, now and forever, "Live Free or Die!!"

bummer

Bill,

Thanks For The Times buddy. I have been for so sort a time but you opened my eyes. We will fight on. We will fight until the RIAA Dies or Surrenders We Will Fight until you, me and all of the Other fighters are allowed to stand and Proclaim V-R day. Victory Over The RIAA. I know nothing I can possibly say will change yuor mind But i know that you will continue. You will fight on. And We will be fighting beside you. All Of Those Sites All of them! Will Fight We Will FIGHT! I was also shocked and now this just blew me away..but I do expect to see you.

Fight On Brave Warrior,
-Devan-

Kneo:
Are you volunteering, sending a significant donation ( we received a $1,000 from a supporter last week)
or anything else?

If not, shut your face. You appear to be an asshole a fraud and possibly an enemy of the movement.

There. I have thrown down the gauntlet.

Your move, turkey.

Leflaw, your ignorance shows through.

Bill just simply didn't have enough time for this place. Take it as you will. I was just merely suggesting trying to find someone who had more time to spend, and someone who would put for even more effort. I've seen Bill mentioned time constraints on here numerous times.

As for the volunteering, I've always been informing people about the evil RIAA. I also boycott. I'm certainly helping out, albeit in a small way.

Yes, I certainly am an asshole, an honest one to boot.

As far as being a fraud? What kind of fraud? That's a vague generalization of me. While you're explaining what kind of fraud I am, why don't you cough up some facts as well.

An enemy of the movement? You obviously have not read many of my posts before. I can't recall the last time I saw you in the boycott-riaa forums. If you'd spend a little more time there, you'd see while I am an asshole and do happen to shit on this place, I also do discuss the movement with people, never putting it down. Sometimes I even give out ideas. On top of that, when other people have said the very same thing you have, other users have jumped to my side. To even remotely think that I possibly am an enemy of the movement is absurd in it's own right.

Yeah, I can agree with kneo24 on this one as well.

Kneo24 is definitely an asshole, but he is on the right side of this movement leflaw. His ideas are also very impressive.

I also agree that Bill needs a break. He obviously didn't have time for this place and I'm glad he has chosen to resign to let someone with a little more time and no life take over. Best of luck to you Bill.

Bill;
I've been a loyal visitor to this website since the whole napster/metallica crap. The RIAA has taken their war a direction none of us would have ever guessed: to the general public. These are strange times, indeed.

Throughout all the static, white noise, distortion, and outright lies that "Big Music" has been feeding to the media and the public, you have been able to cut through it all. Your knowledge exceeds most of ours on the real workings of the RIAA. It's a shame that you no longer have the time to publicize the boycott.

Still, the movement rolls on. I, for one, will continue to patronize this website and boycott the RIAA for as long as it takes- regardless of who's in charge of running it.

Thanks Bill. You will be missed.

i say we vote gorge Z in as web master i know hes busy with his own site but it would be cool but i'm sorry to see you go bill you have been a grate assist to the boycott but keep on boycotting i hope you end up running for office i will vote for you (it would be the friest time i took the time to vote mostly i will not vote one currupt folks in over other currupt folks it's just a waste of my time) but on a final note i hope you send a goodbye letter to the news with the reson for leaveing thanks and have fun bud

Knee-oh:

Think I'm ignorant? I'm not dumb enough to start a public argument with the owner of a website. I don't have to post here. I save my writing for FILINGS IN COURT AGAINST THE RECORD INDUSTRY. You, on the other hand, do nothing but criticize.

You have offered no new ideas that haven't been posted here, on Dmusic, at EFF or the pholist at least a dozen times.


I have no tolerance for talking heads who have no balls, knowledge or creativity.

I think I'll ban you tonite. Go back to slashdot.

Bye.

Here's a little ditty I posted a while back while knee-who was jerking off in junior high school. It concerns a proposal to tax ISP's

______



2.1 unnamed text/plain 5.73 KB

This message was written in a character set other than your own. If it is not displayed correctly, click here to open it in a new window.

I agree with you. "The power to tax is the power to destroy" (Chief
Justice John Marshall, McCulloch v. Maryland). So don't let Hilary
anyway near it, unless you want to destroy ISP's and the internet
itself. Rosen would tax the ISP's and still hassle a celestial jukebox.

If anybody, tax the copyright holders. Poetic justice. There is no
constitutional problem with increasing the cost of a copyright
registration . They levied a tax on blank tape - lets levy a tax on them!!!!

Trademark registrations are $300.00 each. Patents are also expensive.
Cheap copyright registration fees is corporate welfare. And they want to
tax us for their losses?

A copyright tax would deter registrations - a good thing, since all a
registration does is jack up damages from provable to statutory - think
Rakoff and Mp3.com. Failure to register doesn't affect a loss of rights
however. Registration is proceedural, for court.

Alternative - tax all statutory damage awards. Hah!!!!! Tort reform for
democrats......

{This is from kneo24's website. We figured we'd show all boycotters an example of the kind of idiot that we would ban without a second thought. Real tough guy. I am so glad my house is well armed, and I don't mean with a security system.} __________________________________



Welcome to my world. On this pathetic excuse for a site, you will see me wasting valuable Internet space! Actually on this site you will mainly read about many things (like any other E/N site). The things I write about will range from how I'm just generally feeling that day to why I think President Bush is a moron, or how your mom gave me the best BJ in the world. Wait, maybe I am wasting valuable Internet space. If you find something offensive, good. You're probably a stupid nigger anyway (Offended yet?). If you don't feel offended, that's good too. Whatever, ya know? If you don't want to continue any further then I suggest you LEAVE now.

Fool, I don't write to courts. I SUE PEOPLE FOR A LIVING. And you, friend are in my crosshairs.

I'll be your huckleberry. Wanna take me on? Wanna see a creative use of the DMCA?

I can show you places you've never been.

Here's a post from our latest asexual reproducing member Kneehole24.

______________________________

kneo24
(Delete)
Date: October 11, 2003 @ 9:33 PM
I know I am a schmuck, but, Aww, it seems Leflaw wants free speech, but so far as it will only agree with his views.

Why should I offer any new ideas for this site when you want even do anything with the plethora of older ones going around.

Fine, spend your time writing to courts. But you should at least take a look at your forums. Plenty of people have posted ideas there.

Of course, you did wonderful job proving what a fraud I was, didn't you? You also did us all a great service by proving that I have no balls and creativity without backing up your claims. Phew, you are truely a man.

You should realize banning me won't do much. What are you going to do? Ban my username? E-mail address? IP? It's not hard to create a username, get an account from hotmail, yahoo, or the myriad of other free sites out there. Surfing with proxies isn't difficult either.

Yes Leflaw, and you're showing your maturity real well too. Look at all the names you've called me without backing it up.

It's also nice that you took that from my site. Why don't you pick out the rest of the stuff? There's some pretty good intellectual material there. Of course, you *CHOOSE* to ignore.

I like to stir people up, it gets them thinking.

But anyway, what relevance does this have to do with the issue at hand? Care to prove how I'm a fraud? How I have no balls? How I have no creativity? Or are you going to spout out more useless garbage?

Isn't that cute, you're now deleting my posts! I thought you guys didn't do that here! You sure are doing a great job of acting like a lawyer. I sure wouldn't want you defending me.

So, Larry, done acting like a child yet?

Oh, I won't be defending you. I will be prosecuting you.

So, you care to prove how I'm a fraud, how I have no balls, and how I'm not creative? Or are you going to keep avoiding those things?

Everyone I've shown this to agrees, you're being overly emotional. Take a chill pill man.

Check gnutella.com

You do realize I could sue big time for that.

Your move.

But then again, you would have to disclose you ID to sue me.

In thirty minutes I will be posting the reward on slashdot.

... and I think you will find me a bit more tenacious than our former webmaster, who quit over you.

He quit over me? NOW that is hilarious, but I find it hard to believe. If you're going to take the rank as new webmaster and be more active, good for the movement.

He quit over you, and I cannot convey to you how pissed I am and how I have forsworn to do something about it. This will not happen again because one of us is going to make an example of the other.

I have lashed myself to the mast. And if you summon a few neurons, you will realize that I have spent more keystrokes on this than any other issue recently. What does that tell you? I am a 51 year old father of children and I have better things to do.

Now, are you going to voluntarily resign from this site or not?

Nope. I see no need to. I've done NOTHING wrong. If you guys can't take constructive criticism, then you need to seek some help.

This site has a lot of problems, none of which you guys will openly admit to. Instead, you'd rather take it out on me. Hey, whatever floats your boat.

ps: you are obviously a young person, and here is some advice which you can take or leave.

It takes more to be tough than simply typing "nigger" on your homepage, like you seem to like to do.


cc: Iriemon.dmusic.com

By the way, you will lose more faith from the people who come here if you ban me. Numerous people have sent me E-mails expressing their concern over this site and the direction has gone. But yes, please do ban me and post a bounty for my information on slashdot.

Larry, I'm not acting tough here. I have no reason to act tough. If you took the time to look at that site, you'd notice that's one of the things that I do not do.

Thats right kneewho. Slowly back down and go home to your mama. Nice little boy. I guess you just realized that a few dozen gangsta rappers are looking at your site right now.

Right. And I should care because? You do realize you'd be held partially liable if anything was done to me, don't you? You ARE a lawyer after all.

I'm waiting for that bounty on slashdot.

what the heck is this? I'm really confused as to what's going on with this kneo character. I'm gonna have to look through older articles and find his posts so I can see what's up. "take a chill pill man" doesn't sound like a kid to me, sounds like someone pretending to be a kid. Who knows

Leflaw, if you can edit this website, then please hurry up and make the POT already. then move this argument to there. I am disliking Kneo just as much as you but this arguments write under this topic, thats not cool.

Exactly what I was going to say tasadar. I still don't agree with banning him from the website though. He has just as much right to speak his mind as the next person. I thought that's what this site stood for. It's starting to look to me like this site is what's going into the pot, not their conversation, and I don't mean the tea pot.

We found his address in central Pa. I can't move the thread without milla or fu-dog, so it will have to wait until later tonite.

We are on it and him, however. This is serious business. Free speech doesn't give you the right to yell fire in a crowded theatre, or to be an obnoxious pig without getting your lights put out by someone who is offended ( figuratively speaking of course).

If any one at this site is to be rude, it will be me, if you attack my admins, who work hard and are long suffering. We will teach this kid some manners in court if necessary.

And this is now policy. I will put my foot up a rude hecklers arse, in order to keep the movement going forward without distraction. Anyone who disagrees is free to form his own site, with our blessing.

And anyone who thinks that the movement is not effective, just check out our stats. We moved from over one million in ranking to just over 40,000 in one month. We are getting calls from all major news sources, and I mean ALL.

I have no tolerance for rude children. I'm in loco parentis here. This ain't Yahoo.

that's the way it shoule be. i agree

Bill,
Sorry to see you go man. We all have to move on with our lives sometimes, and this is your time. I've enjoyed your comments, and this website for most of the time it's been alive (over two years). Take the time to do what YOU gotta do man, the boycott will live on thru us. Us, the ones YOU have inspired to get educated and not believe the hype. US, the ones that have learned more from this website than any other source I have come across.
The sun will rise tomorrow, and this site will be here too. Thanks again, and to quote the song
"What a long, strange trip it's been"
Best of luck!
Tom

Mm, way to belittle Bill's accomplishments as a valued member of Boycott-RIAA. He an I may not have always seen eye to eye, but he is an intelligent and valuable member of the fight.

This isn't about putting a bounty on kneo's head. It's not about bruised egos. It's about fighting against the entertainment industry's drive to strip us of our rights. It isn't about finding out where Kneo lives or dropping a flaming bag of dog s**t on his door and collecting your $500 buck (way to fan the flame, by the way). It is about educating consumers so that they too can fight for their rights.

Can we please concentrate on the task at hand here?

Bill, you will be missed but certainly not forgotten. I am certain we haven't heard the last from you.

So, moderaters, could you please step in and mop up the garbage? It is distracting the other valuable members of this site. This flame wars are about as usefull as a tit on a bull and taking away from Bill's achievments here.

er.. Sorry, I mean keno, not kneo, but I am sure you knew that already.

Forgive my ignorance, but who is this guy, leflaw? Is he someone in a position of authority at this site?

I was directed to this thread to check out this controversy, and I feel compelled to voice my disapproval.

Does this leflaw have any idea how hypocritical it makes our movement look when he is talking about offering a reward for personal info on a poster and threatening action against him for voicing his opinion?

I find this argument childish in the extreme and damaging to the dignity of this site. Furthermore, I can not recall anything I’ve ever seen Keno24 write that would warrant this kind of extreme hostility.

Freedom of speech is important in a forum like this, which includes being able to say things that you know the majority of the readers will not agree with.

As I said to someone else on this site with a similar problem, if dealing with opposing opinions upsets you to this extent, you should avoid message boards. They will give you hypertension.

Cary Sherman and the rest of the RIAA are having a laugh right now.

thelastvoice.org vs. boycott-riaa.com, meanwhile the lawsuits continue.

Infighting isn't going to help us, kids.

Larry, if kneo is the reason Bill left, and you're upset, I understand, but as I so often say here, if you don't like what someone is saying, just skip his posts and move on to something you find useful, no sense in getting yourself into a position where you find yourself taking cheap shots, it sullies you and the site you represent.

Kneo, I know you have issue with the way things are done here, I know that the code situation left a bitter taste in your mouth and you're hell bent on making sure things get changed for the better here, but it seems like your efforts are putting people on the defensive and they're missing your point. I would suggest taking a breather. You're a great fighter, and you've fought well, but it seems to me that your arms are tired from swinging that huge claymore around and you're swiping at shadows now. In the grand scheme of things, whether posts are deleted, free speech is honored, Bill is a liar, whatever, it just isn't that important in this little corner of the internet world or in the universe alltogether. I've said it before, in 10 billion years our sun's gonna go nova and everything the human race ever accomplished will go up in a cinder. Just try to enjoy your life while your here, don't sweat the small stuff, and everything comes out in the wash.

Love to you all, stop fighting or I'll send ya all to yer room.

Have a super-duper day!!!!

Paul

Otaku - leflaw is the new webmaster for this site. Ever since CodeWarrior left kneo has done nothing but come here and dump all over this site. He is on a high horse crusading for the death of this site. Heres a quote from one of his posts in Codes forum to help you.

kneo24
Subject: Re: Why is this board still here?
Date: October 2, 2003 @ 9:11 PM
Why shouldn't I come here? I like to think that I can help make a difference. If being an asshole to get everyone to finally realize that this place is going nowhere, and nowhere fast, and does not help out the movement, then I'll keep doing it.

This is a private website. The owners can do whatever they want here. If they feel something is wrong, out of place or interferes it is their exclusive right do do what they wish. If you don't like what they do, go somewhere else. I wholeheartedly agree that free speech is of utmost importance, but this site has limited resources with which to do the absolute most that they can and when they get some little jerk doing nothing constructive and only slamming the site they devote so much effort to, I don't blame them one bit for getting angry or banning him. How would you feel if you invested all the time and effort thumbtack, leflaw, and newjon have on this site only to have someone ( who hasn't even done a fraction of a fraction of what they've done) keep trashing your site in a very disrespectful way.

kneo assumes that the community here is incapable of forming their own independent opinions about this site and need to be saved from the "horrors" of Bill Evans.

paulruuss - I'm going to my room now.

Urethra, nice.

Have a super day!

Paul

Urethra901, from what I can see from the quote, Keno isn't saying anything I haven't said myself. Though he may be saying it in a less respectful manner.

I have always had the opinion that there is much that could be added to this site to make it more useful. I wouldn't wish for the death of the site, but I wouldn't want to silence those who suggest improvements or express their disappointment at being unable to use the site to get the help they need or to get effective response to their action ideas.

However, you are entirely right. This site belongs to its creators and/or owners, and if they want to keep it the way it is, that's their choice. If they want to ban people who don't like it, that is also their choice. I would not dispute their right to do anything they wanted on their own site, no matter how counter productive or self destructive it might seem to me.

But I remain concerned about the similarity to RIAA behavior I see happening at this site. First the bad PR move of alienating Code Warrior along with his extensive following, and now attempting to acquire personal information on a member. It looks very bad and could hurt the movement.

Are we not better than the RIAA? Anybody could point to these things and say we are not. I respectfully suggest the owners of this site back up for a moment and take a good look at the public image they're building for themselves.

Otaku, right on all counts.

One thing I've noticed is that Jon, Larry and Bill are no different from the rest of us here when they feel their back is against the wall, they get pissed off like the rest of us and say things they probably shouldn't, it just freaks us out more because they're the ones running the site and we hold them up to higher standards than we do ourselves. That makes it more difficult to hear them when they take a threatenning tone. One part of me would like to express to them that they should take any criticism with a "water off a duck's back" attitude, but I also understand that emotions come into play when one of them (I'm assuming they're all good friends) is quitting due to comments that were made about him. Code left because of comments made by Jon, and Bill allegedly appears to be leaving because of comments made by Kneo, boiling points are reached and hard decisions are made. Just as people lashed out against this site over Code's departure, this site is lashing out over Bill's. Tempers are flared, unfortunate things are said.

It's not a happy situation for a group of people still finding their footing and trying to gain popular support. We've lost a couple of key players this way and we could lose more if we don't exercise some restraint and maturity.

My heart goes out to all!

Paul

If I may, I'd like to make some observations.
1) One is that each time these public events get played out, members are lost from this site.
2) I think that, although the very good posting format enables people to correspond in real time, it also facilitates responding while tempers are flaring.
3) Any time an organization tries to control things to a great extent, such as the RIAA does, it generates rebellion.
4) Dissent by freedom of speech is , for better or worse, a symptom of freedom.
Free speech and dissent is like water that is being heated. If there is no release valve, the teapot explodes.
5) Criticism is harder for some folks to take than others. And, the online forum in an chat type area, seems to concentrate emotional responses , sometimes to the online equivalent of "road rage".

The interesting thing is that this board is, at times, like the Big Brother House played out in text format. Our enemies can peak into our planning sessions online, can send trolls in to provoke us (kneo was not a troll), and I have seen others here who were left alone, even though they are obvious trolls, but are not banned nor are their posts deleted, even though, I think many would be happier if their posts WERE banned or deleted.

Kneo was saying things about the admins and suggestions on improving the site, but unlike some trolls who go on and on ad nauseum how you downloaders should be ashamed, and how you are stealing songs, etc., kneo always seemed to be 100 percent, PRO
P2P.

CodeWarrior went on to fight and erect other sites and get involved in other forums, because he still believes in this fight, and I imagine that Bill will go on to start another website as well. And, perhaps this is not a bad thing, because the more sites there are out there, the more weight our side has, and ultimately,
there will be a critical mass of movement against the RIAA which causes it to collapse.

It is unfortunate that all this happened, but it did. The thing I would ask, has anything been learned through all the sound and fury? Will anything change?

I thought that there would be lots of people who wanted to say goodbye to
Bill, and that's why I started a thread in CodeWarrior's Forum for those who wanted to wish him well. Very few responded to that and posted, relative to the number who were posting during the Flame Wars, as many are calling it.

I just wished that the energy spent by everyone on saturday night, had been used contacting local papers, congresspeople, or others, informing and asking for copyright reform.

With respect to all, and malice toward none...
-bulkeraser

I agree with most of bulkeraser's comments.

But the issue is civility. And I don't mean swearing. Fuck the Riaa is ok with me. Fuck the democrats or republicans, have anal intercourse with Rush Limbaugh while on oxycontin , or give a blow job to Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz.

I mean coming into someone's home or business or, website, and shitting on the
rug and then demanding that someone wipes it up.

That is what a flamer is. Kneo24 is a professional flamer. His posts on Slashdot are downgraded as flame bait. Check it out. He admits as much at his own website.
__________________________________
This is a big thing with me. I CAN'T STAND PEOPLE WHO COME ONTO OTHER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY AND START COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FURNITURE EITHER.
__________________________________

The kid needed a lesson. He knows what to do to regain re-entry, if he cares. I reviewed many posts before I lit into him publicly. And the fact that he may be intelligent and even correct and insightful is irrelevent. Totally frigging irrelevent.

Now I feel a bit like Oliver Cromwell. I don't want to be king - Bill Evans started this site. I bought it to keep it alive, and gave Bill a free hand with it ( except for the T-shirts and stickers.) But I guess I am Lord High Protector at the moment. And the persons who chased Bill and Jon away now get me.

Jon Newton (and I, and occasionally others) write at Dmusic.com, and we "syndicate" the content to Boycott, Gnutella.com, P2pnet.net , and Gnutellanews.com and a few other sites.
Our main purpose was news and to spread the word. People looked to Bill ( and to a lessor extent me) to lead the charge for the entire "movement" ( along with EFF and Future of Music and others), but quite frankly, Bill and I did all we could ( we gave dozens of interviews and TV appearances, answered email, developed the site, etc.)
but clearly this is a serious undertaking.

Not that I am not a man of inaction. I put my money where my mouth is. I was the first sponsor of Future of Music in 2000. I was the first to file a class action against the RIAA companies for a declaration of digital rights on behalf of artists as a companion case in the Mp3 litigation in New York ( Chambers v. Sony, et. al. )
http://gareth.membrane.com/leflawnet/chambersvmp3.html)

(our case is still going on appeal - and we have a good ground of appeal) ; I was among the first group of lawyers in 1993 to file an artists class action that resulted in an 8 Million Dollar settlement (Moore V. Aftra, which is only half settled - we are going to trial against the record companies). As a class action lawyer, you learn to be a team player.

As a result of several litigations that I have been involved in over the years, as well as reading "Hitmen" and "Stiffed", and representing dozens of well known musicians over years ( Kendrics and Ruffin and Damon Harris of the Temptations, Jerry Butler, Lester Chambers of the Chambers Brothers, Vanilla Ice, Jazzy Jeff, etc.), I have learned the nature of the enemy we are facing. And the battle is in the courts. It is not yet in the streets. It might wind up there, like the Gatt riots in Europe, or the recent Seattle riots.

All of this, of course takes place against the larger framework of trying to decide the limits of the "movement." You start with the RIAA - then on to the music publishers ( NMPA) and then Hollywood and the MPAA, and then the media and then the patriot act......

What are the boundaries? The problems to address, or the goals to achieve?

This is what I discuss with Bill Evans, and Code Warrior and Tom Barger and John Parres and Jon Adelstein (the fifth FCC commissioner) and Ron Gertz at Royalty Logic and Richard Stallman and Angelo at Deviantart and others...

I will be Lord Protector of the domain Boycott-riaa.com It will remain here, free of flame. Rest assured. It has served and will continue to serve its main purpose of being a rallying station for those who are trying to understand what is happening around them ,and to unspin the spin - shed light on the tar chamber, etc.

But the poison that is spreading under the name "copyright" I have finally equated in my own thinking to the oncoming of globalization, and the fascist tendencies of its proponents. thuis weights heavily upon me.

I am contemplating calling a joint convention of Dmusic/Boycott-riaa/Gnutella/Azoz and ??? in Philadelphia at either the Convention Center or Temple University law School.
Time for the anarchy to give way to a bit of orchestration. At least a chord chart. Free Jazz will only get us so far.

I am an American, a lawyer and a believer in the constitution.

I also play Violin and guitar.

http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/millennium/artist_detail.cfm?artist_id=CHAMBERSLE#

Ps: Fu-dog is about to post an "employment/internship" page at Dmusic . We need writers and coders and ppeeps to run specific genres' ( hip hop , country, polka, etc)

Nice post bulk...

Hopefully everyone had a day to think things over and work it all out...

btw paulruss wrote:
"I've said it before, in 10 billion years our sun's gonna go nova and everything the human race ever accomplished will go up in a cinder."

I would think in all that time we would have moved out into space like the original pioneers explored our world. And earth would be just one of a multitude of places we would call home with no more reservations than we have now in visiting New York or Boston. So going nova would just be an inconvience not an extinction if we can just manage to make it through childhood and not kill ourselves in the process...

Leflaw, I am behind you. I don't think anyone here knew how much you do behind the scenes, how much money you are spending on this, how much time, and all that. I honestly don't know how you have the time to do anything but the litigation , writing , and attempts at copyright reform.

So, I hope that none of my comments were seen as being critical of the great things you are doing and have done.

This site , as well as dmusic and the rest, would not be here but for your intervention.

I have not read much of what kneo24 has written anywhere but here.

My point was that, it seems like there is one specific poster who most people acknowledge as a troll, who condemns the other posters as thiefs and freeloaders (and I'm not referring to the Feddie the Freeloader guy), but who continues to post in a provocateurish fashion, without being banned .

I know that's the most important part of free speech, i.e. , protecting hated speech. So, I guess, there's not much to be done, but I just found that poster, who shall remain nameless, as being more objectionable than kneo, personally.

That being said, thank you very much for the insight into what's going on behind the scenes, and for the history, as it does give folks a great appreciation of your involvement in this issue, something peeps did not know.

And, it sounds like you have some of the best people working on the copyright issue, Tom Barger, CodeWarrior, Bill,
Mr. Parres, and Mr. Adelstein.

A tip of the hat, and prayers for success,
and thanks for all you are doing/have done.

-bulkeraser
"Making blanks out of ones and zeros."

bulk, your otherwise nameless poster is every bit against the riaa as anyone else here, he provokes us, sometimes insults us, but brings also (if you read between the lines) a cold splash of reality to the situation. I've stuck up for the dude because he has a different viewpoint on filesharing than we do, and when approached properly, can be an engaging and thoughtful poster here. The trouble always starts when he or one of us throws in a small barb that lets loose a torrent of bile. It's a problem that happens often, it's unfortunate, but I still think he has a good mind and I'm willing to weed out his invective and hear some of what he has to say. He will respect you if you respect him.

I personally find it sad when, at any time, someone gets the boot, but those decisions aren't mine to make.

Respectfully,

Paul

RIAA posterchild, of course, you're right, I always have that hope. There's a race going on right now between our ability to get together and move forward in colonizing space (something NASA is not willing to do) and our ability to annihilate ourselves over god and oil (something people almost seem to relish doing). I think humanities' desire to obliterate itself is greater than our desire to better ourselves, it's always advanced farther than any of our technological wonders or fuelled by them. As you can see, I'm an optimist. I think we can do better, but history has proven that given the choice between peace and war, humanity chooses war every time.

All I can do is try to become more active in peace and positive towards my fellow man as I get older (today is my 36th birthday) and hope that other people make the same resolution.

Have a great day!

Paul

OFF TOPIC BUT...
HAPPY BIRTHDAY PAUL !
YOU'RE STILL A YOUNGSTER COMPARED TO LOTS OF US
-bulk

Wow! Thanks bulk!

Have a super day!

Now, can we please end the discussion? There are more important tasks at hand.

Just to weigh in my 2c...
I've watched the forums for a long while before beginning to post regularly, and Kneo has been consistently and tactlessly critical of this site and all the hard work that goes into making it what it is. He's one of those people that complains and complains but a) can't do a better job himself and b) doesn't try to make things better on here. It's hypocritical, it's annoying, and it's stupid. He pretends that being an asshole is his "style" to raise awareness or some bs like that, but the fact is he just is incapable of anything else. He has NEVER inspired me, NEVER offered an original thought, and most digustingly, almost turned me off to the movement with his tactless banter.
As much as we all love this site, we have to remember that we are "guests" at this "house". If leflaw doesn't want a guest at the party, it is his right to throw that person out. For the amount of work the owners have put in as compared the relentless, nonproductive dribble that kneo spits, I say good riddance to bad rubbish.
Ban him and delete all his posts. Being critical of the site is one thing (and we all are at various points), but being a tactless asshole flamer is quite another.

BulKeraser et al:

There are lots of things you don't know about me.

There are lots of things you don't know , period.

This is a serious place, with a serious mission. The mission started many years ago.


You should have that perspective on the events of the last few days.


So, all loudmouths who bashed the admins here,

which of you is now going to VOLUNTEER to work 6- 12 hours a day on this site, and take direction from the owner, and adhere to the party line , and mail out t-shirts and put together artists sites for free, and talk to the media without sounding like an friggin amateur, and debug code etc???

And not anonymously, by the way.
Here you walk among men and women. Sometimes giants.

Anyone who comes in to this site without humility won't be here long.

There is a sadness gripping America and the world, and we need men and women of dedication and committment to the cause of freedom. The RIAA is a triojan horse. More and worse is yet to come.

Jeez, I sound like Morpheus.

Hmmmm.........

Red Pills for everyone

Leflaw, I see that you are a great contributor to the site. You obviously care about the movement, but even you are fallable... so is everyone else.

I feel that you saw Kneo's post and took it out of proportion. The impression I got from his post was this:

1. Bill no longer has time to devote himself to the cause fullheartedly.
2. After a while, causes need new leaders.

I see his comments as trying to be optimistic in light of a sad situation. He was saying in essence, "It's just time for a new leader."

Of course he could have chosen subtler words in saying this message.

I am trying to be entirely honest here so don't ban me or delete my post please.

I think that your offering $500.00 for Kneo's personal information and accusing him of being against the movement and even calling him a suspected plant from the RIAA was entirely uncalled for and unjustified.

You made these accusations out of blind anger and with absolutely no supporting evidence other than his saying that it was time for a change in leadership. For this, you should apologize. If you don't, I am of the opinion that many people will respect you far less than they used to.

As for banning Kneo, I feel you had no real grounds for this.

1. Kneo said he was glad that a leadership change was occuring.

2. Kneo defended his position, and returned insults.

You than made use of ad hominems, which are logical fallacies. Further reducing the respect held for you. As a leader you are expected to hold a level head, you should be placid and in control of any given situation at all times. Further, to ban Kneo and follow by making argumentations against his character is a cowardly act. He is unable to defend himself.

I think that this got way out of hand. I also think that if you are anti-censorship you are being a hypocrite unless you let it go both ways. In other words you shouldn't say that people who agree with you shouldn't be censored but anyone who disagrees should be because they are acting 'high and mighty'. How dare them disagree with you...

Now, I feel that you are a good man Leflaw. You made a mistake, nothing more and nothing less.

You probably think I am Kneo, so I urge you to check my I.P.

You can contact me. In fact I left my e-mail and name in the registration. I am under 18 so I don't want to publically announce means of contacting me but if you e-mail me I will prove that I am who I say I am.

I am a moderator at these forums: http://www.infidelguy.com

I too have gotten angry and went over the line, so I definately don't feel above you in any way. I wish you luck.

You can PM me at those forums if you would like. I hope you don't disregard my above post simply because it is not in agreement with you. And to claim I am Kneo would definately be a cop-out. Especially since I am entirely willing to provide you with contact information.

Kneo is yesterdays news. I don't care where you are or who you are. Welcome aboard.

"This is a serious place, with a serious mission. The mission started many years ago. "

Didn't sound too serious with a $500 reward thread lol.

leflaw, code, kneo, bill, george, even mrpoop and everybody...

you guys are scaring the hell outta me with all this bickering

knock it off for the good of our little "movement" ...please?

Shmoo