"The record industry is a mess because of it. Record labels are losing so much money due to downloading that many of the more interesting bands are being dropped or ignored and only 'sure things' are getting signed," says Wes. "Basically people don't understand that every cent that an artist takes from a label has to be paid back. It is literally like taking a loan from a bank. The artist ends up paying for everything.

"When you download music, you are stealing directly from that person that made the song that you are downloading. And it's forcing the 'banks' (record labels) to merge with each other, becoming larger, more confused monsters that are afraid of the future, and that's a creature that I don't want to be around. More Justin Timberlakes will be signed instead of Radioheads. And some people are responsible with it. They check out a band online, and then go pay for the record if they like it, but there is, as you are well aware, an entire sub-culture of thieves, who never pay for anything anymore. It's these people's fault that bands are sounding the same, and that MTV only plays top 40, along with lame TV shows. That is a direct result of stealing music.

"The demise and collapse of everything that is still good about music. Keep it up, and you'll be able to watch it fall." - Wes Borland

Imagine taking out a mortgage for 30 years, and you make your payments. At the end of the 30 year period the the bank still owns your home...That's like the typical record deal. You "borrow" the money, you pay it all back out of your 10% or so, and then you don't own it. What's wrong with this picture? This makes Venture Capitalists look heavenly, and shady lawyers look like Saints. Loan sharking at its best...

Heheh...makes me wonder why any of these bands would want to do buisness with the big labels. They kind of tell them right to their faces they are going to screw them over hard. Pretty sad !

It's these people's fault that bands are sounding the same, and that MTV only plays top 40, along with lame TV shows. That is a direct result of stealing music.
Can you believe this guys said this what an idiot, yea I am to blame for Britney Spears, I don't listen to bubble gum, can't stand it and it is my fault??? you need to wake up Wes, if you think the record companies are interested in music it is the bottom dollar they are interested in and if you do not to adapt, the future will leave you behind
Geez

I never liked Limp Dikzit anyway. Why would I listen to his new crap, dowloaded or otherwise? He hit one problem right, the RIAA members keep signing drek artists like him.

You said it thumbtack! How right you are!

I think the word "Limp" aka "impotent"
fits this moooosician wannabe...
my opinion

yet again some people actaully assume people will pay for their crap anyway, i haven't bought a cd in about 5 years. i would've bought evanescence's cd or maybe linkin park - metorea because i actually listened to more than 4 songs on it repeatedly but of course checking their label they are apart of the RIAA and the boycott lives.

why the hell is the RIAA so retarded and scared of change? If they wouldve just setup a file format that allows music to retain copyright info correctly and to what artist/record label it came from they could just make a $0.001-$0.01 charge per file shared on all the p2p systems and have gotten rich how many billions of files have been transfered? 1,000,000,000 * 0.001 is still alot of money...

hey wes, I'm eagerly waiting for the whole music industry to fall. If it were as simple as you say that would be sometime tomorrow about 3:00 pm. unfortunately for a lot of good bands (you don't fit in here)it ain't that easy. Go smoke another bowl and try not to think too hard. It will give you a headache.

Wes Borland's statement that downloaders are the reason that more Justin Timberlakes will be signed rather than Radioheads is pure b.s., to put it nicely.
Manufactured acts were around even before downloading took place. Don't believe me? Then it's time for a history lesson. Remember the early 90s? There was a little phenomenon called the the lip sync factor. Groups like Milli Vanilli and C n C Music Factory were outed because they had other less "image-ready" singers singing the pop song. Milli Vanilli lip synced (at concerts and on their videos) while they got all the fame and glory. It wasn't until a couple of lawsuits by the "real singers" that the public learned that they had been duped. By then, millions had already been spent on their albums.

And it's crap that downloaders are responsible for the crap that gets played on MTV and the radio. Wes must not do the marketing for his album, or else he'd remember the pay for play system (aka payola) that's been going on in the radio market (and I'm sure video market as well) for years. It's radio and record industry's fault for the same song phenom. ABC's 20/20 did a story about a young independent artist who wanted to get played on the radio. He couldn't because it would take a middleman and $500,000's to get his song even played once. And that wasn't a guarantee of a hit.

And as to Wes' statement that the recording industry wouldn't take a chance on groups like Radiohead...again, I have to say PLEASE. As much as I love Radiohead (I own every album of theirs...minus the last two)... they were commercially successful. This is rare for most alternative acts. After OK Computer, which was Radiohead's most critically acclaimed and successful album, they basically could do what they wanted to do artistically. Groups like Supergrass (who are just as good in my opinion and make quality music) get dropped if they don't produce commercially. This was happening even before downloading was occurring.

Downloaders purchase more music because we are exposed to more new groups than we would have ever been exposed to on MTV. I know this will anger some people off, but I'm happy that I wasn't, nor now never will be a Limp Bizkit fan.

only 'sure things' are getting signed," says Wes. "Basically people don't understand that every cent that an artist takes from a label has to be paid back. It is literally like taking a loan from a bank. The artist ends up paying for everything.

Since when did record companies NOT sign up a sure thing?

And yes, why do you think we are trying to get the rules changed...dude, do you not think that maybe things could get better out there for the artists without the Bank of the riaa? pepe

I haven't bought anything in a while, because all recordings are "LaMesmaMerda"

I know what you mean, Wes. All those people that have a chance to preview your stuff and realize what a load of steaming crap it is won't be buying it. We must terminate this unholy previewing of music! Instead of continuing to listen to vacant, manufactured pop-crap, people will seek out actual music. Oh the horror!

Panic Wes! All the bands that actually have talent are stealing your label's money!

Hey WES

YOU sign a shitty contract with the record company and get rapped in every orifice by them.....OUR fault

The RECORDING INDUSTRY only signs boy bands and little peacocks to strut around a stage half naked and jiggle to some heavy beat..and they call it music?....OUR fault

WE don't stand in line at media play to blindly pay for this crap so that you can get that 3rd ferrari....definatly, OUR fault.

I know several musicians who LOSE money to play in local clubs just because they love what they do. Go and get a job in some factory and then tell us how tough you have it.

Another RIAA Puppet: Wes Boredland. and Meryl hit the nail on the head. these big ass record industries uses the p2p culture as a scapegoat for their own failures to produce better and expose us consumers to new acts and future big sellers. its too bad that they have to alienate us because they are afraid of change.

The really good artist should start to realize that they don't need thousands upon thousands of dollars to make a good album. You don't need to borrow money at all. One thing the RIAA is probably afraid of is the fact that a few hundred dollars worth of nice computer equipment and some Tech skills and you have better quality recording equipment then they had to offer people not too terribly long ago. An artist can easily make, record, and burn their own music without any help or giant loans. The Lables might be able to provide some benefits but if the music artist can master the art of mixing their own music they wont need a glorified bank to suport them any longer.

Jeez, did the RIAA get this dude a record deal or what? I notice he is "ex" band memeber. I hope there are some musicians paying very close attention to this site. I, for one, listen very closely to what the bands have to say on this issue. Take Metallica, for example. My husband is a huge fan. HOWEVER, HE WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER METALLICA ALBUM AGAIN....EVER. Why? Because a band that turns on its fans is downright despicable. So people like your music so much they want to download it. Sounds like flattery to me. Instead of finding out why their fans weren't buying albums and asking what they could do to remedy the problem, they whined and moaned about those awful downloaders (aka, fans) and that "terrible" Napster site. I hope musicians, whether crappy cookie cutter bands or not, realize that siding with the RIAA is going to cost them fans, and eventually money.

I would have to say to any artist that signs with a major label like that, it's their problem not mine. I didn't make up their mind to sign their soul over to the devil they chose that all on their own. They should have thought about what they where doing with their brain instead of sitting on it. And as far as the people are to blame for bands are sounding the same, and that MTV only plays top 40, along with lame TV shows. Maybe they should start looking in the mirror and point the finger of blame

He's right about crap "sure thing" Justin Timberlake artists being signed more than interesting bands and MTVs lame top 40 garbage.

But that has nothing to do with people stealing RIAA owned music. Lame cookie cutter artists were around before Napster showed up.

Nice try though!

Eh, maybe this pro-RIAA statement was Wes' chance to make a personal jab at Justin Timberlake after his success with "Justified" and his "Cry Me A River" at the MTV Video Music Awards.

The song "Cry Me a River," as most everyone knows, was about the failed relationship of Justin and Britney Spears. Suppoedly, Britney cheated on Justin with one of the LimpBizkit crew. It could have been Wes, but to be honest, I don't know and don't care. It's just an alternative theory to the motives behind Wes's statement.

Can somebody here name a few of the top selling pre-napster bands?

CODEWARRIOR, you are usually good at this.. this is in direct relation to his mentioning that because of "stealing music" all the music sounds the same.... go figure pepe

Riaa is a combination of all thehorrible despicable things that can and do happen in Corporate America.
Monopolistic, Terroristic, MCarthyistic, corrupt scumbags that have no respect for their customers.

Hey guys, don't be too hard on Wes. He's just really worried that he's actually going to have learn something about music theory and how to actually play the guitar in order to make any money at all after the RIAA falls. And speaking of learning how to play the guitar, he better hurry, Madonna's already got a head start!

~goingnova

hey guys lets guess how much money he got for saying that crap
i say a cool mill
what do you think???

pepe I can name more bands than most people will ever hear of

best sellers (this is just commercial stuff before napster as you asked)

rock- The Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, Kiss, Bruce Springsteen And the E Street Band, Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers

country- Alabama, George Strait,Johnny Cash, Kenny Rodgers

soul- Barry White, Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin,

reggae- Peter Tosh, Bob Marley

easy listening- Anne Murray, Harry Connick Jr. , Helen Reddy, Placido Domingo, Julio Iglesias, (Ofra Haza if you're in South America)

some Jazz greats- Tom Scott (screaming sax!)Candy Dulfer, David Sanborn,


blues- B.B. King, Ellas McDaniel (aka Bo Diddley)

big bands- Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey, Benny Goodman

I can go on with stuff that most people won't ever hear of (wonder why that is?) but maybe this answers part of your question?

We all know the real reason why MTV plays Top 40 and only Top 40. It's the money! Shut up Wes you talentless piece of trash. I bought two Limp Bizkit CD's and I just recently sold them to a friend for 2.50 each. I of course ripped them first.

pepe..thanks
Commentary on Boring Man BORLAND...

"The record industry is a mess because of it. Record labels are losing so much money due to downloading that many of the more interesting bands are being dropped or ignored and only 'sure things' are getting signed,"
OK, so you're say that "interesting bands" are not the same as "sure things" and that the labels aren't signing them. Isn't that LOGICALLY, the fault of the record labels because of their lack of perspicacity? DUH!

"Basically people don't understand that every cent that an artist takes from a label has to be paid back. It is literally like taking a loan from a bank. The artist ends up paying for everything."
And, in your spaced out world , that is the FAN'S FAULT? Good god man, take a course in economics or something. After all, you are going to need a day job before too long Go get a loan from a REAL BANK, instead of Cary-Sue Sherman's Savings and Loan, where the vigorish, er...interest rate, is your soul!

"When you download music, you are stealing directly from that person that made the song that you are downloading. And it's forcing the 'banks' (record labels) to merge with each other, becoming larger, more confused monsters that are afraid of the future, and that's a creature that I don't want to be around. "
OK..he thinks the record labels are banks, and then, they are confused monsters, and they are going to merge...LOLOLOL...I'm sorry, but Wes has gotten so screwed in the head he needs to change his name to East, 'cuz his sense of reasoning took a 180.
Paging Wes...we have a clue for you..
please find the white courtesy phone...a real brain is calling you...
Hey Wes..stay off the stuff, "BRO".

"More Justin Timberlakes will be signed instead of Radioheads. And some people are responsible with it. "
Yeah, Slick, if that happens, the parties responsible for more Justin Timberlakes ...would be Mr. and Mrs. Timberlake, right Einstein?

"They check out a band online, and then go pay for the record if they like it, but there is, as you are well aware, an entire sub-culture of thieves, who never pay for anything anymore."
Now, Wes, let's have a talk man. Number one, you're an idiot. Number two, you have dreamed up this entire "sub-culture of thieves...who never pay for anything anymore."
NEVER PAY FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE?
Wes, lemme know who these people are, and more importantly, what their secret is...there needs to be a story about them on Dateline or CNN...I mean, they don't pay for clothes, food, rent, taxes,cable,electricity,
gas,school tuition, medicine, ANYTHING?
Geez louise, I have to get me an eBOOK on this trick, cuz I been paying for everything, and I could use the infor on how not to pay for anything anymore.
Hey Wes..hook a brother up..or better yet, write a book on this, make a million, and quit bending over for your corporate masters Dude!

"It's these people's fault that bands are sounding the same, and that MTV only plays top 40, along with lame TV shows. That is a direct result of stealing music."
Ya flunked Logic 101, didn't ya Wes. Come on, fess Wes, you came out with a screaming ZERO on your syllogism test!
Dude, you write like a schizo high on crack ! There's no way any examining doc would say you were oriented five by five saying that kind of mixed up, hebephrenic bovine fecal matter!

"The demise and collapse of everything that is still good about music. Keep it up, and you'll be able to watch it fall." Wes, what do you think is GOOD about music? You can't believe that you are good for music, or that confused crap you create was good music.

Do you really think that BB King, Johnny Winter, Johny Lang, KoKo Taylor, or any of the greats are just going away because people download some songs? I'm sorry, but to put it nicely, from what I read, the basic function of your brain at this time, seems to be keeping your ears from touching. This is the only time I have said that your brain, in medical terms,
is "A Space Occupying Lesion".

LOL..this is SOoooooo predictable, and something I told some people a while back was gonna happen..they are trying their own version of a blitzkrieg..suits against everyone..
then start dragging out these hasbeen musicians who will now do and say just about anything for the RIAA, and am just waiting on them to start doing more anti-"piracy" ads on tv and radio.
I'm just surpised they haven't cranked up the hasbeens before now.

These little puppets like this cat,
Wes Borland ...or more aptly
"I conFESs I'm BOR-ing mAN", have been told by their corporate masters just to say downloading is stealing. It's a very simple tactic which Adolf Hitler loved, "The Big Lie". The notion is that if you say something, anything, no matter how patently false it is, loud enough and long enough, people will start to believe it. The best way to fight DISINFORMATION that is repeated often and loudly, is to say the TRUTH, more often and louder.
like...THE RIAA ARE CROOKS, THE RIAA ARE CROOKS..OR ONE I LIKE THE BEST...
THE RIAA DOMESTIC TERRORIST NETWORK!

"Mr. Sherman,at long last, sir, have you no sense of decency? Have you no shame?"
~code

Code,

you are the master.

"Keep it up, and you'll be able to watch it fall"

Promise?

My person list of faves :
Rock : Chris Rea, Little Village, Go West, Stones, Santana, Danny O'Keefe,
Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes,
Golden Earring, Johnny Winter (and Edgar),Simply Red, David Bowie, Kiss,
Lynyrd Skynrd,. ZZ Top, Hall and Oates,
It's A Beautiful Day, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Emerson Lake & Palmer, Eagles, Aerosmith,Whitesnake, Scorpions, Cream, Whang Chung,Hendrix,Joplin,Led Zepplin, Jeff Healey Band,and more.

Blues- BB King, KoKo Taylor, Slim Harpo, Muddy Waters, Johnny Winter,
Robert Cray,

Reggae- Bob Marley, Peter Tosh,
Third World

Country- Amazing Rhythm Aces, Danny O'Keefe, Alabama, Hank Williams I,
Willie Nelson

Soul - Barry White, Aretha, Nat King Cole (not really soul, but, in a way...very soulful)

Jazz- David Sanborn, Spiro Gyra

Assorted - Black Oak Arkansas, some Van Halen, Rick Astley (don't laugh ), Atomic Rooster, Bonnie Raitt, Nicolette Larson, Van Morrison,
Robin Trower, Rod Stewart, Lee Michaels, Beatles,...too many to list...

captdunsel -
thanks my friend...
but alas, I'm broke..LOL

Wow, codewarrior and captdunsel, you guys are good, and in relation to what this Wes was saying

...entire sub-culture of thieves, who never pay for anything anymore. It's these people's fault that bands are sounding the same, and that MTV only plays top 40, along with lame TV shows. That is a direct result of stealing music.

Lets not forget Boys II Men, N'Sync and Backstreet Boys-all the same group.

As M1 said, we had bands all sounding alike long before Napster appeared on the scene! pepe

I remember one time when all Wes ever said about downloading was this "P2P is both good and bad for me." He left it at that. A very nuetral stance, but nothing to get people upset. He said this over a year ago. Now he's completely lost any integrity that he regained when he left that shit hole band Limp Bizkit.

I don't think Wes has been around long enough to realize that even without downloading, there are no royalties beyond the advance.

Let's review the Incubus/Sony deal for those late arrivals. Here is how their previous deal boiled down...

30% royalty on a $12 wholesale CD comes out to $1.86.

If you get $1.86 per CD and sell 7 million of them, this is not quite enough to pay back a $4.25 million advance.

So go try to BS someone else, Wes. Maybe the 12-year-olds will believe it, but we're not buying this line OR your CDs.

Amazing.It seems like Wes doesn't realize he was in one of those generic,crappy Top 40 bands.

Guess it's different now,isn't it Wes?

Mr. Borland is one of the many reasons why I always hated Limp Bizkit's crap music. Keep talking, dude, I'll laugh as your foot gets deeper and deeper in your throat.

Wes Boreland is an idiot. Spoken like a true np talent ass clown. He can't develop a new act because he is lazy and a coward. Go out on the road and make your own way, Wes. If need some large multinational conglomerate to annoint you and make you a star then you have no business claiming to be a performer.

Wes sucked anyway, he just wants some publicity and the RIAA is probably just paying him off to say that BS. OK, so how was Limp Bizkit so successful if they had to pay backk all the money they earned plus interest? Wes, if you're that desperate for money, go somewhere else instead of sucking RIAA's dick for cash. What a backstabber.

Limp Bizkit has always been and always will be a media-friendly RIAA-ass-kissing "band." They have no decent talent. They have three things:

a) They can swear
b) They can shout
c) They "play" loud instruments
d) They are marketed so much, and over-hyped so much. They count on the sales from blinkered teenagers being blindly driven and controlled by their consumer-orientated, media-driven lives.

Oh wait, that was 4....still, math was never a strong point of mine.

Point being, nobody with a degree of sanity will listen to Limp Bizkit, or however you spell the name. It'll be interesting, because most teenagers use p2p, and probably a fair deal of them listen to 'Bizkit....will they listen? I doubt it. Will their parents? Possibly. I don't know.

"More Justin Timberlakes will be signed instead of Radioheads. And some people are responsible with it. "

>>>> Can't you see yourself Wes, how you are part of that group? You have succumbed to it! It started happening years ago, mate. Sometime around 2000 when Cher came back to release a single or two to capitalise on the millenium. Oh, and let's not forget electronic music. Then there's this whole "black rapper" stereotype, whereby if you combine rapping with rude words, sweat, sex, booze, drugs and fast cars, you get "cool" (unless it's on p2p and being talked about by the RIAA, in which case it's mind-destroying pornography).

I think I'll finish there, before I get totally caught up in this. It's ridiculous, and I can't believe how any human being with an understanding of morality can possibly even begin to think about starting to contemplate a desire to need to sue people, including 12yr old girls.

I can no long help this board. The only reason I have stay here is because of CodeWarrior and if he is not here I am not here either.

Funny, I could have sworn that Wes Borland killed himself about 8 months ago (maybe he should take the hint and save himself the indignity and us the bitching). I'll admit, Bizkit sucks without him; but, they sucked before so I doubt anybody really noticed. Maybe at a concert some drunk frat boy said to another "hey, the guy who paints his face must have forgot his makeup kit tonight".

On a somewhat positive note, the new Limp Bizkit video has Thora Birch in it, holy shit she's so fucking attractive.

Borland has the deal between the record company and the artist right. They do start with a loan that you use to record and maybe make a video with. This is just what has been said by more than a few people in the business. About MTV destroying itself.... no one told them to become a real world, beach games, dating games and top teen video only station. They did that themselves, with or without, and long before file sharing ever got around. As for a top 40 only getting air time, that is a numerical definition that has nothing to do with how many bands exist, there are only going to be 40 videos in the top 40 unless a major breakthrough in mathematical science just occurred or MTV simply decides there is a top 100 or 500 that should get aired, in which case I say that would be progress. Borland needs to really rethink his statements on this.

Wes must've been paid to say that by the RIAA... Wes doesn't have a career to put on the line if he sides with the RIAA so it won't hurt Wes at all.. Little Biotch!

been lurking here forever, thought I'd sign up for this cos I'm a little shocked.

You guys are being way too hard on a guy who said nothing really inflamitory. He took several huge stabs at the labels here. Said they were out of control, said they're only signing cookie cutter acts now, said he wanted no part of it. He even acknowledged there are a lot of responsible downloaders - would the RIAA spin machine EVER do that?

Another thing is, he's not saying he's pro 'sue 'em all' or anything, he's just saying there are a lot of people who just flat-out steal music, and that hurts the band. Where I live, that's VERY true in some circles - it's 'ghetto' to burn your rap/rock and hip-hop CDs instead of paying for them.

One of the big reasons I've never really joined the boycott movement, even though I've followed it from literally day one, is a big misconception people have about who's getting screwed, which is touched on here. thumbtack said it best, the labels front a young band some money promising they're going to get huge, FORCE the band in to using certain studios, personel, etc. - whoever's pockets the label wants to line, then the band has to pay all of that back. I could name a lot of rock acts (Fuel, Korn, Filter) who very nearly went bankrupt early on.

I don't think people realize that the consumers get screwed, the bands get screwed, and the labels get fat off of both. This is one of the most VITALLY KEY THINGS in the entire debate - nay, the entire cause - that has gone woefully overlooked. The people who the RIAA claims they're protecting, the studios, the recording engineers, so on... ARE PAID BY THE BANDS. If more average people understood this - that labels provide loans, not support - then our cause would benefit tremendously.

So please, cut Mr. Borland some slack. He's not that far off. You send him some of George Z's numbers showing that the labels - who he clearly mistrusts - are the cause of the sales drops, and you'd probably win a supporter. You'll catch more flies with honey than 'f**k you, you suck anyway'.

P.S.... for all of you saying he sucks and won't buy his album, I reiterate what's been said already, he quit Bizkit and has no album.

In fact... he's a virtuoso guitarist. I first heard his name associated with Bach and not Bizkit, I heard a little clip of him playing a classical piece at triple speed. He apparently quit because he saw where that moron Fred Durst was taking the band (straight down), and was reportedly "disgusted" by their last album.

I am also in the "cut him a little slack" camp. I do not agree with his statement that downloading is like stealing directly from the artists, because he has no idea whether the person who downloaded the file would have ever purchased the album. However, he is correct that a lot of people are going to suffer during this transition period for the RIAA and that includes the artists, but I think it will be a lot better for the artist in the long run. I know this is little consolation for the artist currently signed on RIAA labels.

Boycott RIAA and MPAA.

status7: How do you interpret "The artist ends up paying for everything" then?

Unless he has some special deal with the RIAA, he'll be getting next to nothing.

TheBeansprout: could you please elaborate? I'm not sure exactly what your question/challenge is?

Hmm...in 2000 didn't Limp Bizkit do a FREE tour supported by Napster because they supported file sharing...I believe so

My issue with Mr. Borland is this statement -- ""When you download music, you are stealing directly from that person that made the song that you are downloading."

First of all, I don't do Kazaa, didn't do Napster. I may have downloaded a total of five major label songs in the last three years, and then only to learn the song and perpetuate the performance royalty stream, if such a thing actually exists (not at ASCRAP, that's for sure).

Most recording contracts are 7 years in duration. I sincerely do not believe he has been in the "elite" crowd long enough to realize that there simply is no royalty check after the advance. There's always a new expense to pay for -- payola, street teams, advertising, marketing -- and it's always just enough to suck up the extra pennies.

What a WEENIE!!! "Basically people don't understand that every cent that an artist takes from a label has to be paid back." And DOWNLOADING is to blame for THAT? I don't think so! Every download is a POTENTIAL SALE you MORON!!! The way artists get famous is not because some record label put your CRAP out. It's because people have heard it and WANT IT... also know as EXPOSURE.

The lines are being drawn in the sand. Any artist that cries like this baby should be totally BOYCOTTED and shut down. Maybe THEN the artists will understand that it's the FANS that buy music, and that we BUY it AFTER we are exposed to it. The internet is the 21st Century radio, and every artist should be BEGGING to have their songs downloaded. Only then can potential fans get to know your music and then want to buy it and see you in concert. DUH!

The only demise that downloading will bring is the demise of all that's GREED and DISHONEST about the music industry, including the RIAA.

My two favorite indie bands are

Indigenous: 4 Sioux Indians from the Nakota Nation (blues & rock) kick ass guitar work sounds like Stevie Ray or Jimi...
http://www.indigenousrocks.com/

&

Manic Hispanic: They're brown and down & coming to your town. (punk) funny is not the word for these guys more like outrageous...
http://www.manichispanic.net
Here is a review of their new album
http://www1.agouti.com/bands/manichispanic/mijogoestojrcollege/manichispanic.asp

Enjoy

Great, another useful idiot / collaborationist slavishly serving the purposes of a dying regime, albeit one determined to drag all of us and our freedoms and everything else down with them like the proverbial lemmings. I need only point out, though, that Mr. Borland's onetime Bizkit-mate Fred Durst had been linked at one point to Brittle Sneers -- er, Britney Spears -- in the tabloids, thus his "statements" in a sense may smack of a cheap shot. Besides, if all his energies are focused on "downloading" and all that (as the industry WANTS those like him to be), then he won't notice the REAL reason why he's been screwed, and thus the industry's off the hook yet again . . .

Never mind that (as said a hundred or so times before) the reason that there is such proliferation of these cookie-cutter "mickey-mouse" acts like the aforementioned Mr. Timberlake (or the vocal group with the voices of neutered wusses to which he's belonged, N*Sync -- not that they're in any way unique in the vocal regard) is because, downloading or not, P2P or no, the industry PREFERS such acts for the following main reasons: a) they're more, er, cost-effective, b) they're an ostensibly "family-friendly" alternative to alternative rock, ganster rap and such, and c) they're totally under the thumb of the industry (i.e. recording only what the record company and / or producer hands them; almost never do such virtually-exclusive-to-Radio Disney or pseudo-American Idol "talent" write or even co-write any of their own material). That plus when such trained seals are "young" (read: "tween"), the company can do whatever they want to such victims, er talent, er whatever. Furthermore, to add on other points, I hereby note that there wasn't even an Internet, thus no downloading, uploading or even sideways-loading, when, in the late '50's and early '60's, the radio was flooded with such acts as Frankie Avalon, Fabian, Jimmy Clanton, Bobby Rydell et al., all of whom were brought up by the industry as a REACTION to the likes of pre-Army Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Little Richard. Or during late-'60's psychedelia when people were being exposed to the "sounds" of the 1910 Fruitgum Co. and the Ohio Express. And so on. And so forth. Another example of how Mr. Borland is either full of it, or is a full-fledged puppet of his RIAA "massas."

As for those "black rappers" (per Thebeansprout), a new book out called "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast has pointed out that a good chunk of them are out-and-out collaborationists with the RIAA in their war against consumers and new technology, chief among them being Eminem mentor Dr. Dre. Which, when I read that section (dealing with the RIAA's anti-Napster vendetta and their being part and parcel of the larger New World Order), reminded me in some way (essence, not specifics) of the "Judenrat" who handed over their fellow Jews in Europe to the Nazis during World War II so as to save their own necks. Or, in a loose quotation of another old saying, "They scream 'Freedom, freedom,' but I can hear their chains rattling." Which is appropriate, given that they OPENLY support the RIAA / MPAA etc. campaign to enslave us all.

Wes Borland.... Isn't that the same guy who three years ago on MTV proclaimed his strong support for Napster? After all, this was during the whole Napster-sponsored free tour with Limp Bizkit...

Now we can see his true colors...

oops! sorry about above posted to wrong article.

Note to self don't keep more than 5 windows open at once.

I guess Wes doesn't know the real reason why there are more "Justin Timberlakes" than there is music that's unique. It's because of these people known as 12 year olds. You see, the music industry has hit upon this drug induced idea that if they pander to pre-teens, then they'll make more money, seeing as in this day and age, parents of 12 year olds will give in to a child's demands instead of saying "no" like they should. And since they got the formula right back in 1999 (or maybe before then) that's the way it's been. And it just keeps getting worse. Since they got away with the lewdness to begin with, the labels are creating more and more.
And absolutely none of this has to do with downloaders, especially seeing that it all began BEFORE Napster and the other p2ps came about.
Bottom line: learn your history, Wes. It helps a lot when trying to figure out why things happen a certain way.

It seems to me some musicians don't care that the music listeners are sticking up for the them. Isn't that the purpose of this site, sticking up for the muscians and not the RIAA? I wouldn't be waisting my breath if I didn't care about the musicians and there work.

Just because I don't want to pay $18 for a cd doesn't mean I don't want the musician to drive a ferarri. I want what's fair to the musicians and also what's fair to the music listener.

As for file sharing, isn't 1 of the reasons people file share is because of the rediculous prices people have to pay. You may say it's wrong for people to file share but I didn't hear any musician speak out against price fixing. You may thought of it ok to swindle your fans, listeners and customers, I don't know.

Just remember when you make that next song. It's the fans that help you get where you are not the RIAA. The fans are your bread and butter. If it wasn't for your fans you wouldn't be able to drive that ferarri.

It seems to me some musicians don't care that the music listeners are sticking up for the them. Isn't that the purpose of this site, sticking up for the muscians and not the RIAA? I wouldn't be waisting my breath if I didn't care about the musicians and there work.

Just because I don't want to pay $18 for a cd doesn't mean I don't want the musician to drive a ferarri. I want what's fair to the musicians and also what's fair to the music listener.

As for file sharing, isn't 1 of the reasons people file share is because of the rediculous prices people have to pay. You may say it's wrong for people to file share but I didn't hear any musician speak out against price fixing. You may thought of it ok to swindle your fans, listeners and customers, I don't know.

Just remember when you make that next song. It's the fans that help you get where you are not the RIAA. The fans are your bread and butter. If it wasn't for your fans you wouldn't be able to drive that ferarri.

Apologize for my double posts, wasn't meant to happen.

If Wes has a thought in his head it's probably because somebody put it there. If the RIAA had the vision to sell music that embraces the technology instead of resisting it I'm sure Wes would be singing a different tune.

status7: It's well known that the RIAA practically rape the artists. The RIAA suck up all the money and put it right in their back pockets. They don't actually care about the artists (except for the really marketable ones which will make them lots of money).

Long before the orgy that spawned wes boringman I mowed grass to make money so that I could purchase albums from groups like Sha na na and Bobbi Gentry. I did so faithfully up until about 3 years ago when a group of chickenshit little no talent pukes named metallica cried to congress about me stealing from them. I'M a theif? I steal from them? I have paid a lot of money for the over 3000 LP's, 8 track tapes, cassette tapes, Cd's and mini disks that I own. Some of them I have bought several times - I have Alice Cooper's greatest hits on every recorded Media except a victrola. And yet a guy like this who probably can't even read music has the gall to call me a theif. This is why I'm here and I'm boycotting the riaa. Thirty years of being a fan and paying thru the nose for their "product" has netted me a potential lawsuit and this kind of disrespect from a dopehead, no talent piece of shit, prefabricated, commercial, industry hand puppet who would not call me that to my face.

Hey wes, here's a wake up call for you and your riaa buddies. I'm not buying any more of your crap and furthermore I hope you go under and I hope they go under. And if you really want to call me a theif to my face pick the time and the ring.

Moreover, Mr. Borland's apparently RIAA-sanctioned scapegoating (variations of which I've heard and read from others in the "bidness" over the last few years) merely proves the point of what I'd been saying (and writing) all along about how the Internet et al. has changed the industry "spin" on how and why we have the "music" acts that are around today. And I second 'NiceGuy2003's' historical background; after all, Britney and all the others who "started" this trend of pre-manufactured pap emerged BEFORE Napster and other P2P's were first launched.

wow.....i never did like limp bizkit
for a rich guy, thats the single most moronic thing anyone but cary sue has ever had the pleasure to stick in my copyrighted ears.
im just gonna listent to classical music from now on.....limp indeed.
how bout flaccid buscuit? any takers?

~time flies~

wow code......you are a long winded one!
but, well said....

love and peace to all, i have to take my conserative republican butt to feed my horsey.

you, know, we make a good business model here......shame the RIAA cant see it. they might turn a profit.

and yes, i have a horsey, ;p

oh, to stay on topic, um....limp bizkit?
that not even funny.....its just...lame.
if I have a band, ill call us the primer grey erections or something. be funny at least wes, you suck.

~time flies~

Apparently he was not paying to make that statement in support of the RIAA. So I guess he hasn't had to pay for everything, and he probably got quite the reimbersment for that statement.....

limp sucks so badly...a virtuoso guitarist? LOLOLOL,
whatever, may this thread rest in peace.


~time flies~

If I could get away with putting a bullet in each one of the RIAA execs, reps, or strong supporters I most certainly would... That's about what they are doing to downloaders by killing their livelyhoods financially!!!

W-B -- You give Britney way too much credit. The practice of fabricating acts, writing their songs for them, creating an image, oppressive contracts giving the artist nothing, etc., go back at least to the early 1960s and Motown.

This started more than a half-century ago -- before Spears was conceived and possibly before her parents were born.

No one said you HAD to be in a band dummy. When in Rome do as the Romans. You sound a little pissy about paying back every cent you took. Maybe you shouldn't have made the deal with the devil. Idiot, man, idiot.

Oh geez..cry him a friggin river.

All major artists at some level know that the majors rip em off big time.

You would think that only getting 10% of the CD sales MINUS all the amentities and expenses would clue anyone who the REAL thief is.
Most major label contracts also include their onerous outrageous agreements to extend options as well...meaning they'd still get ripped off out of new album release sales.

Man..how old is this dude? A/R and producers used to churn out songs like a machine since the motown days..brill building..etc.
So what's he bitching about?

I never listened to his group much less d/l it...but even if his music was great I already lost all respect for this mf'er to care.

Personal to Wes....You can't blame me cuz I never downloaded anything or bought your crappy CD, nor from your former band. Untill you learn how to play guitar or write a decent song, please dont bore me with the RIAA crappola. They only look out for their and their lawyers best interests, not yours.

To 'gdZiemann': I did refer to the likes of Frankie Avalon and Fabian -- whose prefabricated images and personae even predated Motown's rise to prominence, albeit by a few years (although I am aware of Berry Gordy's planting the seeds of Motown at the same time as those two "American Bandstand" faves were having their respective runs at fame). But as they say, "same difference." Not to mention the old adage "only the names and the players change." The point I meant, of course, is that by implication, the "suits" seem to think that P2P et al. are SOLELY responsible for ALL the low points in music over the last half-century (or more) . . .

To all else: Do any of you know whether or not Mr. Borland hooks his name to such pet causes as PETA, the environment, abortion, the anti-SUV movement, and so forth? If so, his toeing of the RIAA party line would figure.

And the only way in which the RIAA "cares" about their artists is to use them as pawns in this whole battle. And Mr. Borland seems to have "pawn" written all over him.

Look people are entitled to make their own decisions and oppinions but

CodeWarrior
Date: September 20, 2003 @ 4:18 PM
I think the word "Limp" aka "impotent"
fits this moooosician wannabe...
my opinion

Dude you have no idea what your talkin about Wes is one of the best new age guitarists around, you need to think about what your sayin b4 you just go sayin stuff like that cuz hes bad and hes not with Limp Bizkit.