"If I knew the rest of my life wouldn't be ruined and that I wouldn't have this huge financial thing hanging over my head, I'd stand up to them," Lorraine Sullivan told us exclusively.

"But I can't take the risk."

Lorraine is a college student in New York. She has two cats - TRE and Hamlet. And she's up against the RIAA - the Recording Industry Association of America - and its paymasters, the international record industry, because she's one of the 261 people named in the RIAA's first wave civil sue 'em all prosecutions.

She's apparently accused of sharing 1700 songs and under under US copyright law, could be facing penalties of up to $150,000 per song.

That's why, as she told us, she's decided to settle for an yet undetermined amount and, through her web page, is looking for financial help.

"Like 60 million other people around the world, I've used the Internet to enjoy music," she says on suedbytheriaa.com here. "And now the RIAA and the Big Five record labels want me to pay them a settlement.

"I'd like to resist the RIAA and the recording industry. I wish I could. I wish I didn't have to worry about my future.

"But I'm terrified of bankruptcy. How could I, an already in debt college student, possibly go up against a multi-billion-dollar international industry and survive?"

Lorraine, who's into all kinds of music from hip-hop to John Cougar Mellencamp, offered 1700 files, says the record label mouthpiece. That's a lot. And the RIAA has says repeatedly that it'll nail any individual it can find who's trading in substantial numbers of music files.

However, Lorraine says, she wasn't knowingly trading anything and as far as the downloading was concerned, feels misleading advertising and lack of a clear disclaimer on the part of the p2p company contributed.

"I honestly didn't know about the possible repercussions," she says.

But how could she say that when she offered 1700 songs, as the RIAA apparently claims?

"The real irony is - I didn't even know I was doing it," she says on her web page. "I'd installed p2p software and it went automatically to a folder which stored the songs I'd downloaded. I didn't know it but this folder was also open to the world. It was turned off in the old software."

But what about the 1700 files?

Lorraine says a lot of people had access to her computer and we can confirm that among them, they could easily account for the downloads.

And Lorraine went through the entire 1700 to find the songs she was responsible for.

"I downloaded 108, to be exact," she told us.

Did she inform the RIAA of this when its representatives first told her that she was on the list of people it intended to prosecute?

Earlier, we said she's 'apparently' been accused because she still hasn't received official notification of charges, or anything else, from the association.

"The first I knew about the lawsuit was when about four different reporters left messages asking me to call them about it," she says.

"When I spoke to the RIAA, they threw some numbers at me like $150,000 per song. The man I spoke to was very helpful when I told him I'd heard from a reporter that I'd been sued."

We asked Lorraine how the reporters had known where to phone her.

"I didn't understand how they knew to call me," she answered. "They say they looked me up and found the information."

Lorraine assumes, but doesn't know, her address and other information was on court documents the media were able to access.

Nor does she know exactly what will happen next, although she's decided to settle because she fears the worst if she doesn't.

"Believe me - if I had endless amounts of money, I'd stand up to the RIAA and its lawyers," she says on her web site. "But I don't and so I'm going to have to pay what is to me a fortune.

"If anyone has any other ideas about what to do, I'd really like to know what they are.

"But I don't think I have any other alternative. I have to pay the record industry what little savings I have for having listened to its music.

"I'll cancel my phone and cable, live off of Ramen noodles and use candles - but I don't want to have to give away my cats.

"So, if please help if you can. A nickel, a quarter, a dollar - anything will help. But if you can't do that, send me a message of support. It's very lonely, here."

here you go guys, sue the kids and get mom and dad to pay the ba******
http://www.comcast.net/News/TECHNOLOGY//XML/1700_High_Tech/631c41a7-5ef6-4ba0-9a25-0317382c5fa3.html

Damn can I create a PayPal account w/o having a bank acount. Because I get paid with cash(Im 16) but I really wonna help people who are being sued!

I feel sorry for her....I wish I was rich........

She will probably get back whatever she settles, probably about 2-5 grand. We'll have to see. In the end, the RIAA will loose this one too, and ppl will continue to donate to ppl like her.

She is up to 35.00

Daniel Peng still has 6 grand left:http://m-net.arbornet.org/~danpeng/

directive - the '35' is probably hits, not contributions

Now if i was her, i would have told the reportes I would talk for Money. particualrly for my lawer, court prices, time wasted in the battle ect, and my losses if i ever lost (which wouldn't happen.), Then I would be the RIAA's worst nightmare, I would Attack them where it hurts, get a jury of teens (18 year olds) who use File traiding systmes, or have, and then whip out the speaches, and accuse the RIAA of what they have been soing, I would get national press coverage, and on the day that I won the battle, would be declaired a international holiday, the Defeat of the RIAA.

I donated 8.00 the remainder of my paypal. If you want to express sympathy, email her at Lenabugs[at]aol.com

Don't forget to donate.

This is off-topic, sorry. But I thought you'd like to read it. It seems the 12-year-old girl is getting support...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&ncid=1896&e=13&u=/nm/20030912/us_nm/media_music_lawsuit_dc_11

You see what is happening. Decent good living people are baing turned into poor BEGGERS!!!

That is really bringing people to the lowest 'status' in society. Being a BEGGER!

The sad problem is, these people who act like the French when the Nazis stormed into Paris in 1940 (in other words, surrendering without a fight and immediately submitting to RIAA enslavement) make it all the harder for those seeking to fight back, to do so. It is not all that unlike the U.S. "cutting and running" in Somalia, at the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, at the USS Cole et al., after the respective bombings thereof, which only emboldened those terrorists seeking to destroy us -- and may have paved the way for the 9-1-1 attacks. Such folding like a cheap fan only further emboldens the "enemy" and gives them even MORE ammo with which to disenfranchise, subjugate and enslave the masses, and further ratchet up their "jackbooted street-thug" tactics.

It only further underscores my ongoing point about the double standard between rich and poor in our "just-us" system. How else, as noted before, was a judge able to rule Fox News' trademark infringement lawsuit against Al Franken as being "without merit" -- and then THEY backed down -- other than he could afford all the best representation in the world?

Lorraine feared the worst if she didn't settle? Sounds almost like the excuses given by countries who surrender to conquering entities, for their craven caving.

Ya have to agree with da facts.
W-B...with you all the way man.
You got it right!
~code

but, none of us REALLY knows how we would react til we're faced with the actual situation, we can only hope that in all situations, we would act honorably and honestly...
~code

Damage to the RIAA has already begun.
The public is now aware of what's going on. Further lawsuits will simply reinforce the callous image of the RIAA.

Substantial backlash will surely follow.

Take a Stand Against the Madness
-------- Stop the RIAA! --------

If you haven't signed the petition
take a few moments and do it now

http://www.eff.com/share/petition/

I have a dumb question, how does she afford to have her own .com???

i have got a sick feeling about something. There is continuing theme in all these articles. I read about a girl in California. The one thing these people keep saying is I didnt know is was not illegal when i started using the surface.

Think if i was RIAA and could not take down these p2p by suing them myself. Well i would sue the most innocent, poor, old and young users on that p2p. Bad publicity you say. Well its is my legal right to do so, but these poor people were duped into into thinking it was a legit service, and will be upset and start suing the p2p. Now not only do got RIAA(which is big and bad) but also these people(like a 12 year old girl or 71 grandfather) suing p2p. How does that look to the general public who know no better.

dont know if that might be thier intentions but seems plausible, and i keep readind about how these people thought they were using a ligitimate service. I bet you might hear that RIAA might offer them assistance in helping sue the p2p's.

oh well my two cents

ronnie
guitarist from KWIVER

Posters..

Is there a centralized website where we can donate money to all people who are sued by the RIAA?

If you get sued and you take it to court instead of settling, then you can say she was wrong in doing so. As it stands you're standing on your inflated ego to think that you would not settle when faced with a possible $22 million lawsuit at most, or $1.275 million minimum (going by copyright laws). It is $750 to $150,000 per song is it not?

Anyway, don't think you're better than her cause she settled, you can't honestly say you wouldn't have, not until you're faced with the decision yourself.

I emailed Lorraine ...maybe she is cute. he he he he he he

That's the point: You may take your licks if you take a stand and hold firm, but in the end (and in the long haul) you will earn more respect for trying, and for holding your ground. Sometimes the "easy" way out is a prelude to entry into Dante's Nine Circles of (the "H" word), in other words, ending up far worse than before.

W-B i'm with you all the way. And for those of you who have doubt just remember that nothing is ever won without a fight. And the RIAA is in for a good one.

I think a normal person without much money should of course settle with the RIAA to avoid substantial financial loss.

HOWEVER, I would make as BIG of a stink about this to the local news services, tell your story to everyone, of how you were basically bullied by the pigopolists.

In the courts and the law, the RIAA has a lot on their side. The bribed officials and the law that was created by the bribed officials, is one example.

"There may exist a political arena in America, but it is not the teeming convention hall depicted by the pluralists, but rather a restricted club reserved for the wealthy and powerful.

Only those with sufficient political capital need apply. Lacking such capital, most groups in American society have virtually no bargaining power with which to advance their collective interests.

Instead, by virtue of their disproportionate control over the political arena, powerful groups are generally able to exclude the powerless with little fear of political reprisal."

-Doug McAdam, Political Process and the Development of the Black Insurgency 1930-1970

Second question.. does there exist a centralized p2p network which acts like altnet but does not filter a single cent to the RIAA? It would be a beautiful day once the middleman (RIAA) is eliminated for good, and artists connect directly to their fans and get paid for their works?

"Insightful innovation is often met by resistance from mediacore minds"

i++

hey all watch tech tv right now

ooohh and can you guys put what happened at that tech tv thing on the site i dont have tech tv and i would like to know what happens, if you can tell us what happens i would really apreciate it thanks

Yea im watchign the live debate right now, its a joke the RIAA didnt even show up they said..they dont have anything to hide do they? lol

Sen. Norm Coleman from minesota says it is thievery but not @ 150,000 bucks a song.

Good news folks !

We reached the 10,000 signatures
for the 'Stop the RIAA Madness'
petition. But don't stop now ...
Errors need to be screened out.

If you haven't signed the petition
take a few moments and do it now

http://www.eff.com/share/petition/

Keep up the boycott, we are the buying
consumer and our strength is in numbers.
No RIAA music purchases.
This will be our 'Merry Christmas' to
the RIAA.

Watching techTV right now..
RIAA a no show.. big surprise.
I agree with Chuck D..

RIAA, ADAPT OR DIE.

A job for CODE,
you could handle everything to keep it honest

every member of the p2p's should donate $10 to a fund, to pay for someone to fight them. That around $600,000,000 and should cover the cost.

I just saw the petition counter roll past 10000 and it's still going strong! Good job everybody! Keep 'em coming.

"If we do not hang together, we shall surely hang separately."

We do support the artists in our hard earned money buying concert tickets.

We do support the artists in our hard earned money buying concert tickets.

Hey everyone go to the petition site, even if you already signed... http://www.eff.com/share/petition/

Ok check the number that has signed and memorize it, then quickly press reload on your browser. You will see they are getting 1-2 signatures ever few seconds. YAY

who is john perry typing to? i can see the laptop in his lap...where is he?

It is tragic that people can be duped by p2p software, KaZaa installs so easily, and I forget if it does search more mp3's and suggests to share that directory; or if that was another software...

But people really do need to understand what their software is doing, and who is using their computer and for what purposes. Ignorance does not hold up in court no matter what the situation is, traffic laws, tax laws, etc.

It's a tragic story, help her out, keep the cats fed, and continue boycotting RIAA, but more importantly, help other people you know understand how p2p software works and the possible legal tanglements RIAA can cause, so stories like this do not happen again.

Ignorance doesn't get people off the hook, but it's definately something we can help prevent.

I have to agree with Emenius and Nyer82 with regard to settling. As much as I hate it, I have to admit that, for someone with little or no money it's the only reasonable choice. Unless you can afford a good lawyer you'd lose anyway and that would just be a "victory" for the RIAA. Let someone who's got the money fight the RIAA. That will happen for sure. They might stand a chance. Meanwhile, the sad stories about the people who are forced to settle are winning the sympathy of the public and creating new enemies for the RIAA.

Here's a couple of interesting news items from Zeropaid:

The Beatles management company is suing iTunes over the Apple logo:

http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=internetNews&storyID=3435792

File sharing on the FastTrack network is up 20% in the first 10 days of September compared to August:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3430812

Honestly, the reason that the RIAA didn't go is probably twofold. Number one, they know at their heart their attacks are bankrupt, and also, Cary-Sue is probably a bit paranoid.
BayTSP had death threats against them.

I have been there off and on for less than 15 minutes. Those signatures are still coming. In that time, the totals rose over 300!

I too have "spread the word", leaving the address at a "popular web site" and a popular hub site.

Poor guys, I feel very sorry for them. Damn RIAA.

I have a dumb question, how does she afford to have her own .com???

As of right now you can build a web sote for free on some servers, they have restrictions but can be done. some cable isp(I use comcast and this is why I stoped downloading tunes, a month before the riaa started this comcast sent emails out stating that they would give over isp adress's if they had to, (but it still beats a dial up, and I was not going to give more money to qwest fpr dsl, that is a different story)but comcast gives with your subscription 25 mb of web space thasoe are two options to buy a .com you can go to sites like (well I wont advertise) but you can buy a .com name for around $8.00 for a year. use front page for your html, and wala a website it is that easy.

Well, as far as this article is concerened, most of us people do not have access to good high priced lawyers, or such... so settling would be the only way around it, then asking for donations to pay for it

... but then again how many more people would donate if instead of settling she took that few grand she's got to pay in the settlement, hired a lawyer, then ask for donations to help PAY for the fight, wouldnt more people be ready to actually put money towards a fight, instead of to the RIAA pockets?

Hey Guys,

Thanks Jon for writing a great article and thanks to all of you for looking at my site (go to register.com and register a name for a site then you can have it hosted for about $4.95 a month if your wondering). Especially thank you guys who have already donated!

W-B--What you're writing is very inspirational. It almost makes me want to martyr myself for the cause. Or MAYBE W-B we could trade identities-sounds like you would behave much more admirably than I have. Just curious though, what exact arguments could I use to defend my case? Even Jane Doe is only defending her constitutional right to privacy--not to download music. SO if I lose this case are you going to be there when and if I have to file for bankruptcy? From the information I've received from different sources in a civil case the RIAA have their case against downloaders pretty sealed up.

Thanks to Jon I am definitely educating myself about these issues, many of which I just wasn't aware of before. Yeah, I sure would rather be a hero for the masses then a coward and a "begger". Realistically having a possible multi-million dollar lawsuit hanging over my head is more than I am willing to take on right now. I wish the other 260 (or at least those who haven't settled) RIAA targets could band together as a group and fight. I am glad that others can read my story and avoid falling into a similar trap themselves. The RIAA isn't going to stop, they've made that clear.

I guess we'll all see what happens--one thing I have learned from this experience is EVERYBODY has an agenda. I just wish Chuck D could advise me personally--I kept nodding my head every time he spoke.

Rain

... but then again how many more people would donate if instead of settling she took that few grand she's got to pay in the settlement, hired a lawyer, then ask for donations to help PAY for the fight, wouldnt more people be ready to actually put money towards a fight, instead of to the RIAA pockets?


I would kick in quick. and I belive every one here would also, but I can only speak for my self. So if any one here is being sued, why not create a web page, heck I'll give you space for free and set it up, I will even pay for the .com any takers want to try??????

RIAA is Maffiosos (Maffia). They steal the money from costumer and don't pay the artist. I say DONT PAY FOR THE CDs. Go to the artists web site and buy from them direct if the suport a boycott against the fat baste* RIAA.
Look a cd costing pennies to pruduce all the way to the store, but we have to pay $15-20 for the CD. In the 70 you could go to the store and buy a album for $2-5 and that did cost much more to pruduce!! To day the same album on a CD cost $15!!! I say FU** RIAA. I hope Everybody starting to P2P. Just to scre* with this basteds!!

Just curious though, what exact arguments could I use to defend my case?

Good question some thing I will think on and get back to you. Or you could use your rights were violated, they were. Or YOu could have talked to a lawer to help you decide what to do or organized your "I wish the other 260 (or at least those who haven't settled) RIAA targets could band together as a group and fight" to start.
Who were your sources that told you
"From the information I've received from different sources in a civil case the RIAA have their case against downloaders pretty sealed up."
I feel that you may have been miss lead.
code what are your thoughts on this?????

Dakota81

Kazaa has a box that you can check so you don't share files. It also has a little note above the box saying "Don't do this."

I looked for and checked that box as soon as I started using Kazaa. All the information is there if you look for it. You can block any type of file searching also (ie: exe, scr, etc.). This is supposed to keep your virus vulnerability to a minimum. As most of us know, exe and scr files are the most popular ways of getting virus to different computers.

Anyway, back to the check box. A person being sued by the RIAA could use that statement "Don't do this." to sue Kazaa. But, my question to them would be, "Do you do everything you're told?"

I am not being mean, but I am concerned when someone give in so quickly. As to what advice you recieved and from who??????

I will donate some cash to your cause

Here's a question that I haven't seen answered yet.

What happens if they sue you in court and you lose and owe them millions of dollars that you will never have?? Do they garnish your wages, take everything you own, throw you in jail, or what??

WHAT IS HAPPENING ON TECH TV I DON"T HAVE IT, ANY ONE???????

I am so angry and frustrated with what the RIAA is doing that I don't know what to do! So desperate times call for desperate meassures.
The other day I received a thank you card from a friend for a wedding gift I had given. Included with this card was a compilation CD of some of my favorite oldies. That's when it hit me. What if we all did this? What if, whenever an artist came out with a new CD a few of us bought it, then immediately burned 10 copies and sent them anonymously to 10 people we didn't know. What if we included a letter informing them of who the RIAA is and how they're trampling our constitutional rights. Then,what if we ask that they burn 10 copies and send them on, and so on and so on. I'm willing to bet that once these artist saw that their music was no longer going gold or platnium; and that they could no longer get on MTV and flaunt their wealth, I bet they'd abandon the RIAA as if it were the Titantic. This idea could also be taken a step further than anonymous mailings. What if boxes CDs with the latest music just started popping up all or the place (ie.) in college dorm lobbies, at the mall in front of music stores, at the grocery store, corporate office buildings etc. I mean every where. I bet the artist themselves would be forced to come up with a new business model to get they're music to the fans. Afterall necessity is the mother of invention. I'm all for paying the artist. I just don't see why I should have to go through the record companies to do it. Especially filthy rich companies that don't mind suing 12 year old girls, single parents, college student, and the elderly.
I've been boycotting since they shut Napster down. I'm glad to see that others are doing so also. However, the RIAA took this to a new level when they RIAA started suing the very public that they depend on for support. The RIAA has a sue them all campaign. What if the general public launched a burn them all campaign. (burn copies of every CD known to man) It is clear to me that we will never beat the RIAA in court; Going to congress won't work either; and trying to be heard in the general media,forget it. Nope to win this war we are going to have to take a step back in technology back to good old snail mail (LOL).

As would i, and countless other people on the net. Just spread your cause/case around the net, get lots of press, and ... it could possibly pay for its self.... assuming you win...

Just remember, you cant judge anyone on the basis of settling, until you get that notice saying 6-7 figure lawsuit or a 4 figure for a settlment, and take them to court.

Well as would i donate i mean. (active post)

Folks, it's damn easy to say what we would do and beat our chests on this site, but code is right, we really don't know. If I was bitch-slapped with a lawsuit it would be a disaster. The best thing (in my humble opinion) right now is to lie low and boycott ALL RIAA products. They are going to lose in the end but you don't want to be a martyr.

Quote: There is only one boss and that is the customer. And he can fire any one of us from the CEO on down simply by taking his business elsewhere.

Sam Walton

I pity the people who got sued by the RIAA. Of course, victims need to act smart. A settlement is understandable. Someone eventually will stand up and fight. Those that don't should contact local media saying, "I've been sued by the RIAA!" Then they can make their case. We can help by donating to help them cover the cost of their settlement. It's unfortunate they got caught. Not everyone is smart with their computer. We have to compensate. We must stand together.

hangtogether has an excellent point when he brings up the quote, "We must hang together, or we will all hang seperately." "Join, or die" - Benjamin Franklin

And W-B is right in saying that victims should use their every chance to publicly denounce the RIAA.

DOWN with the RIAA!

:-:~ PhantomGhost ~:-:

I pity the people who got sued by the RIAA. Of course, victims need to act smart. A settlement is understandable. Someone eventually will stand up and fight. Those that don't should contact local media saying, "I've been sued by the RIAA!" Then they can make their case. We can help by donating to help them cover the cost of their settlement. It's unfortunate they got caught. Not everyone is smart with their computer. We have to compensate. We must stand together.

hangtogether has an excellent point when he brings up the quote, "We must hang together, or we will all hang seperately." "Join, or die" - Benjamin Franklin

And W-B is right in saying that victims should use their every chance to publicly denounce the RIAA.

DOWN with the RIAA!

:-:~ PhantomGhost ~:-:

demon--3012

That is a good question?????, but I dont believe a jury would let them win and that is the trick, you are the defendant and you get to chose if you want a jury and you do, you can even have the venue changed if you feel that the trial may be in a place that is biased. this will get a lot uglier, and the RIAA will look worse for bringing it up, and I feel that the little guy, you and me would not stand for multi billion dollar company suieng the little guy, ppl are giving up to easy and this really worries me.
Giving up your rights to a corporation is not right, no matter what they say they can do. You have rights to just process, against any one and you are innocent until proven guilty.
I am very upset with the RIAA saying that the iv amendment does not apply to them they are a private partt and I say BULL S***, you payed for a law, so you need to live with in the law of the land. Have a judge sign the paper work before you can go any further with you investigations. Why do you not have to follow what the Police or any law enforcment entity has to, why do you get to step on our rights. You are a dead emoireand as the word gets out and more ppl know you will be destroyed by your own greed.

Now this thought just occured to me, what if... you took the RIAA to court, fought your hardest, appealed. Did everything you could, now you owe them 1.5 mil. Maybe... you could pull a OJ Simpson, give all your stuff, house money, EVERYTHING to a very trustworthy person, brother, sister mother, so you own nothing, now you can live in your "brothers house" with "his stuff" just like you did before, but the RIAA doesnt see a dime.

I believe thats what he did in the Brown Civil suit like 5-10 years ago right? Wrongful death or something. Just a thought...

those f****ing ba$tards!!! riaa (Retarded Idiots Association of A**holes)

This settlement deal sounds alot like blackmail or extortion. Give us a little settlement money or we sue you for everything you own.

Making my stuff disappear isn't a problem. My exwife got nothing. Everything just disappeared.

1st, demon the law varies from state to state, I believe florida is the most lenient to bankruptcy, also judgements are usually not discharged by bankruptcy so they will take anything you have title to and sell it.
don't be nieve, the riaa searched for the 261 out of 60,000,000. You are kidding yourself if you think these people were'nt screend fo selection. They would not want to lose a case and have a precedent set for other cases.They may be wealthy or corrupt but the didn't get there by being stupid.
Boycott the riaa Vote biycott all riaa supporters

Maybe off topic but... I watched the TechTV debate tonight which I thought was great, helped to get the word out. Even though I thought the valid question was not answered by anyone about how is it different to record a song off of the radio vs. downloading and listening to it on the computer. I thought of a possible defense for someone being sued in a rural area. When I was growing up I lived in a rural area radio reception was a joke at best, it hasn't improved even today. Most of the time I was reduced to listening to AM radio which wasn't even that great. I understand it does cost money to build towers and equipment to transmit in an area with limited population so return on investment would be minimal. My point being why should the people in rural areas have to pay to listen to the same music everyone else to get the opportunity to listen to music and programming everyone else gets for free? The Internet solved this problem, all of a sudden you could download and experience the music everyone else had access to on the radio. I for one would be willing to pay for the ability to listen to the music everyone else has access to, but alas no such service exits as of yet that fills this void. Now the industry has turned against their income base because they do not understand the new technology or fear they will not be able to make money from it as they have from their existing income base. My answer to this is to join boycott-riaa and give my money to fight them, money which I have very little of to give being the father or two children with one on the way. My only hope is my $20.00 is enough to help in the fight. I can say with confidence that if I am sued I will not cave so readily as some have already because I happen to believe in the founding principals the United States Of America was founded on. I may not be the most educated or most well spoken but I do believe I speak for the masses in what I am saying. How much does freedom mean to me? I am willing to go the distance if it comes to it. How many of you are willing to loose everything for something you believe in? Keep up the fight I'm in your corner! Daymare

We should be more afraid of losing our rights than our money, I will fight them at all cost. I would rather represent my self in a law suit and lose everything than lay down and let some one trample my rights as an AMERICAN. I beleive in what this country was founded on. And I am willing to do time in jail if I can not live on the country that my parents , grandparents and great grandparents beleived was the GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH!!! For if you are not living in that country and afraid of what the man could do, you are already in that jail. And that would be the worst thing I would have to live with.
I belive that the founding fathers of this country set this country up for what I feel, not corporate America, or for the all mighty dollar. The founding Fathers of this country fought the tryany that we fance today
there is no differance, so why lay down, why give up your right to due process, why not take a chance with your peers in a court room. It is your right as an AMERICAN CITIZEN!!!!!!! and your duty to to fight opression and that is what this is. A corporation, that is largley not of this country to have laws placed on your freedoms. WAKE UP!!!! your freedom is leaving you, are you not going to fight for it, please!!!! wake up do not give in show the whole world that we are AMERICANS AND WE TAKE NO S*** form any one.

If the big five never sell another cd they will survive through other ventures, therefore we must boycott all their other ventures. Look at sony and time warner

BOYCOTT VOTE

All i know is Oj Simpson owe's the browns millions, but "cant afford it" and lives in a mansion.... LA or not, seems like theres a way to fight and lose, and not be on the street.

(Though he was found "innocent of murder" browns sue'd him in civil court for wrongful death, and he owe's an incredible amount to them, but cant pay. He is the richest poor guy i can think of)

AlfonsoD, if the music divisions become unprofitable, the parent companies will sell them off. They're not going to prop up dieing businesses for long.

Well I have to say the TechTv Music Wars did not live up to the hype. I guess I was expecting a more in depth question and answer session. For me it was a waste of time. There were a few bright spots, Like when Chuck D called the RIAA a gestapo organization. Other than that and when the girl asked the Record Execs about why the Internet was any different than Radio, it pretty much was a waste of airtime.

Just my opinion...

lenabugs - your cats ROCK!
I have two inside cats and a bunch outside..so seeing your cats right away made you ok in my book!
~code

next person they sue may not have two cats and nothing else to lose...they may have two guns and lots of ammo and nothing else to lose.

Thanks AlfonsoD

By title do you mean house and car? I doubt the 12yr. old girl had either. Some of these people probably have nothing. They live paycheck to paycheck. Some might not be able to afford bankruptcy even if it erased the judgement against you. The RIAA could beat you in court ,but never actually get a dime out of you.....Right ??

LOL..broke as I am, boycotting is one of the things I do best!
I can boycott all day to the MAX...
right now, I'm boycotting Russian black caviar and Ferraris

~code

demon--3012

"You cannot get blood from a stone"
Are you on the sue list buddy???? just wondering from you questions.

I only caught the very end of the TechTV Music Wars. Some guy with one of the fee-based download sites was bragging how people could sample music for free and then download the songs they liked for 79 cents each, etc. I was frustrated with the other panelists - why didn't they ask about the restrictions on the downloaded files? Why didn't they bring up the limited selection of music? Why didn't they ask him, "How are you going to prevent people from burning the songs onto CDs and making copies for friends?". Maybe I missed a lot of good stuff but, from what I saw, the anti-RIAA people could have been more aggressive.

LOL..broke as I am, boycotting is one of the things I do best!
I can boycott all day to the MAX...
right now, I'm boycotting Russian black caviar and Ferraris

LOL

Yep, when you make a whopping 4-5 grand a year like me, you have the power to boycott absolutely everything.

Man, I'm really sorry this is happening to people. It just makes me more angry more positive that I will never give one cent to the RIAA and the companies they represent.

Thinking about it, the first thing I'd do is put anything worth any value, like my '75 Nova, into some one elses name. I would stash anything else at friends' houses, or families houses. Then I would try to contact the ACLU to see if I could get some leagle advice as to what to do next. Ultimately, you need to come up with an infallible arguement that points blame at the RIAA for accessing your computer without your permission. Somehow it needs to be proved that what the RIAA is doing is unconstitutional. I read an article someone had posted to this site about the 9th Circuit court (?) (shows you how much I know about law), but they just recently threw out a case because one company accessed another companies computer systems to gain enough knowledge to sue the competitor's company. I think that's how it went. But this really sucks. All I can say is that I wish they would sue me. I have nothing to lose, and would fight until the end.

~goingnova

(well cept those damn price gouging gas companies... )

The RIAA is making a point by targeting specific persons that are apparently of a middle to lower-middle income. one can easily see the psycological effects of this tactic. Throughout history humans have gone through the stages of any freedom that is lost. Similar to being grounded as a child. Can any child successfully overturn the punishment of an overbearing parent without severly damaging their standard of living?

I hope you are right Ifree, but check the figures on toyota and see how many years they lost money in the US before making a profit. They know if they hang on and change strategies they can survive, but they have to be willing to change.

I wonder if i could get copyright infringement lawsuit against me, becuase i named my dog Mercedes?

Actually, I've been told it's illegal to hide your possessions and money if there is a legal action against you. Otherwise, everyone getting sued would do it.

I agree IFeelFree, I laughed when he said you could pay the 79 cent per download, after you pay the $9.95 a month membership fee.

... as i said, you dont hide, they give it away before they win the law suit.

Doesnt going bankrupt mean she wouldn't have to pay back college loans anyway? I know she couldnt get a visa but really! I know Im talkin' smack cause its not me but I think she is making herself out to be helpless when she isnt. This isnt civil rights or voting rights that would call people to put their lives on the line but bankruptsy for a college student, which happens to many anyway, seems a little trivial to freak out about. Now if its about serving time in jail or having all your paychecks for the rest of your life taken by the RIAA then I would say this is turning into an extreme situation you wouldnt want to be in but in that case I dont even have to mention its only a matter of time before they try and sue the guy down the street that beats people to death for 20 dollars as I have almost witnessed once (he survived). Which leads me to my next question. After your bankrupt can they get any money from you ever or can they make you serve time in jail?

sometimes i wonder who the first victim was that thought, "i think i'll find a legal way to have someone pay me money for something that was taken from me".

... yes i do believe they would garnish your pay checks for as long as it takes for that $150,000 per song. As far as jail time... dont know.

i am posting this again damnit, are you not listening WAKE UP!!!!!!!!

Date: September 12, 2003 @ 11:53 PM
We should be more afraid of losing our rights than our money, I will fight them at all cost. I would rather represent my self in a law suit and lose everything than lay down and let some one trample my rights as an AMERICAN. I beleive in what this country was founded on. And I am willing to do time in jail if I can not live on the country that my parents , grandparents and great grandparents beleived was the GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH!!! For if you are not living in that country and afraid of what the man could do, you are already in that jail. And that would be the worst thing I would have to live with.
I belive that the founding fathers of this country set this country up for what I feel, not corporate America, or for the all mighty dollar. The founding Fathers of this country fought the tryany that we fance today
there is no differance, so why lay down, why give up your right to due process, why not take a chance with your peers in a court room. It is your right as an AMERICAN CITIZEN!!!!!!! and your duty to to fight opression and that is what this is. A corporation, that is largley not of this country to have laws placed on your freedoms. WAKE UP!!!! your freedom is leaving you, are you not going to fight for it, please!!!! wake up do not give in show the whole world that we are AMERICANS AND WE TAKE NO S*** form any one.

Maybe you dont understand, its not YOU with a million dollar lawysuit. Everythings alot easier to watch, or look at until you try. Otherwise everyone would be a pro-basketball player or get straight A's. Its not as easy as it looks to say, " i dont care if i have to suck quarters out of vending machines to feed myself the rest of my life." becuase essentially when you owe that much money as a college student, you can no longer afford to pay for it, you are forced into working a minimum wage job, and then get garnished wages until you pay it off (which at 5.15-7 an hour will take you decades)

Count me in woodhead. Just proud there are some willing to stand up!

Oh by the way I'm new here, hey everyone! Daymare

They have to locate your assetts to get them. I sued a guy for losses from a robbery. the judge said "I'm sorry I'll have to find for him, but that don't mean you have to pay him" the judge knew him since he was a kid. It took 3 years but he finally got a job and i was able to garnish his wages. it is civil at this point, jail comes when it's criminal

They can not put you in jail for losing a civil case and not paying. If they could do that OJ would be in jail right now. O.J lost a 6 million dollor suit, to this day they have collected a little over 1 million. My brother was sued over ten years ago, to date they have collected zero dollors.

pay for it=college

Everyone likes to get all twisted up over things they have no control over. people don't like to be pushed around. earlier on this forum a posting recommending the mass copying of discs however the unfortunate matter of this good idea is that most of the RW disc on the market are sold by the same companies that make up the RIAA. talk about getting it both ways.

Thats what i said, Oj's the "richest poor person" you could find.

Well, thats interesting, thought i read something about them griping how the sales of blank cd's jumped to almost higher than one with music on it....

What we need to do is set-up an underground network to hide people from the process servers. If they can't deliver those then the person being sued doesn't have to go to court..right??
A lot of single parents have an underground network similar to this.

Daymare, nice to meet you

Come on guys I leave for a doy and I see doubt, on this thread. lets pull back together an get this movement going. I was discouraged as well but taking some time off and refresh the brain works. GEt the thinking cap back on. We can win this, but you need to stand strong. THe media will not represent us right now we are a small group, but recruit, I work at it all the time spread the word ppl will listen and know your facts, no bull s*** have facts kets fight this oppresion
Vote Vote VOTE VOTE VOTE!!!!! DAMNIT

It does ruin your credit however. She could lose her student loans and things of this sort.

woodhead:

You're free to do as you like, but I have to disagree. If you're not a sympathetic defendant and you can't get a good lawyer, you will lose. That will probably benefit the RIAA, as they can declare a "victory" and point to it as a precedent.

The RIAA is suing hundreds of people and sooner or later they'll come up against someone who has the money and motivation to fight them. Maybe a wealthy person or a lawyer who's 10 year-old downloaded songs without his knowledge. That person would have a fighting chance. If he said he didn't know about the downloading, he can't watch his kids 24 hours a day, etc., a jury might let him off. Alternatively, if the RIAA tries to sue a highly sympathetic defendant (kid in a wheelchair, decorated war veteran, a mother of small children dieing of cancer, etc.) the jury might let them off in spite of the law.

I understand that woodhead, it is about our right of freedom, the riaa thinks it is about money and that is the only way to hurt thwm. I don't smoke, but I believe we should have the right to, I do own guns and i believe those rights, I also believe we are losing our rights at a recoed pace. We have to make a united stand to save our rights, but we must also pick our battles, and an 18 or 20 yr old person has to llok at their future and make their own decision because only they can face the consequinces of thos decisions. Me personally they could sue ( all evidence would be forged) and they would be unable to collect anything. They will finally make a mistake and be in a lawsuit with the government (department of the interior- bureau of indian Affairs)

woodhead

No, I'm not on the list. I'm just wondering about a few things that I haven't seen address here yet. Even though we have many new posters lately, I'm sure we have many more lurking about that are afraid to ask questions. I'm just asking to learn more. Knowledge is power.

DeafToBs your right about that it's what they did not say where's all the data.most of my cds that i buy i put data on it not mp3

baayne:

The amount of money the recording industry receives for CD-Rs is quite small. (I read the amount somewhere but I don't remember it now.) It doesn't come anywhere close to what they make from selling music CDs. I think mass copying of CDs is a good alternative to file sharing for those people who are afraid of lawsuits.

Sue me, Sherman. I have nothing to take and nothing to lose. And I will garner as much publicity as humanly possible against the RIAA. Thats a promise.

**Ignorance doesn't get people off the hook, but it's definately something we can help prevent.** -- dakota81

I'd say that one other part of the educational campaign that us soldiers are set to fight, would involve explaining how our copyright laws were twisted and distorted as noted a zillion times before, For as the old saying goes: "Just because the law is the law, does not necessarily make it just." To reiterate: It is how the "laws" were rigged by the multinational entertainment-media complex, their stooges in Congress and the courts, and their lapdogs in the news media, that led to this situation -- and its being up to all of us, as we're seeing from those stepping up to the plate, to change it.

Not everyone is giving in. Dont forget that nycfashiongirl (i think thats right) is fighting the RIAA. She's doing it on the grounds of Internet Privacy and fighting the way the RIAA has such broad supeona powers, without it being signed by a judge. Or atleast thats what I make of it.

Well it needs to be pointed out, Nothing changes with out someone making it happen. 10 commandments were posted in schools... courts ... everywhere, till someone said, it violated the right of freedom of religion, and separation of church and state.

So until people declare their rights violated, RIAA can do what they want. Until someone decides to stand against it.

Actually, I just read an article that nycfashiongirl has decided to settle with the RIAA. She felt she had no choice.

The financial gains are indeed low for "poor" companies like Sony on the sale of RW discs. Of course they are quoted on sony.net ,"Sony is committed to enhancing relationships with communities as a good corporate citizen. Focused on educational programs for children, Sony is active in promoting the arts, culture, international exchanges and environmental activities. " Well that is clearly the case here.

demon--3012
There are a lot of answers. what is your question, if I can help I will if not will point to some one who may.

Do not give up guys this is YOUR COUNTRY you will take over it and if you do not take a stand now, when will you?
You guys are the greatest, do mot sell your selfsshort to a corporation who wants you to. Talk with ppl that are older, ask advice, try to see where some of us that are older view this country. And do not be afraid, that is what the RIAA wants.

oh yea demon my email is woodheadboycott@hotmail.com

I love you guys and stay the course, you have freedom on your side.

hmmm.... thats not what her Lawyers said on the techtv music wars tonight, but if she did I hope it works out for her since she is probably on the RIAA shit list now for fighting it.

Where is that firm of lawyers that will step up to bat with a worldwide class action suit against these bloodsuckers? Meanwhile, http://www.eff.org/Activism/activismtraining.html

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!!!!!!!!
GO USA!!!!!

The companies make the largest percentage on their movies the first weekend, thats the way they have it set up with the theaters, everyone should stay home the first weekend the movie is released. This would hit them harder than 6 months of cd boycotts, 20 to 40 million at one shot

w-b
"Just because the law is the law, does not necessarily make it just." To reiterate: It is how the "laws" were rigged by the multinational entertainment-media complex, their stooges in Congress and the courts, and their lapdogs in the news media, that led to this situation -- and its being up to all of us, as we're seeing from those stepping up to the plate, to change it

Go buddy run with it you have the fire.

NiteRider52...
those lawyers were representing the 'jane doe' case in San Francisco.
seperate case all together

Oh ok, I was working and watching at the same time, my mistake.

But still someone is fighting it. I just hope she can win or she will probably owe the RIAA millions.

I have to agree with woodhead and this isn¡¦t chest thumping or trying to talk someone into doing something that they don¡¦t believe in. In my case, it would be my children or babysitter who downloaded the songs but that¡¦s not really pertinent. To be perfectly realistic about things, I think I would be better off owing them millions rather than a few thousand as either would force me into bankruptcy. It¡¦s like Mark Twain once said ¡§If I owe the bank a hundred dollars, I¡¦m in trouble. If I owe the bank a million dollars, the bank is in trouble.¡¨ In my case, I have very little to loose as I¡¦m already in debt up to my eyeballs ƒº

As far as a defense, I would look to the generally accepted practice of recording songs off of the radio as a similar activity, unless advised otherwise, and take my chances with a judge. I¡¦d even venture to say that one may find readily available counsel donated or paid for by the ACLU but that would remain to be seen. He would either slap my wrist and send me on my way or he would take everything I have and put my family on the welfare rolls.

For some reason I don¡¦t believe you can receive a jury trial in this but can¡¦t remember right now what gave me that impression, unless it¡¦s wording from the DMCA. But I¡¦ve also done a lot of looking over the patriot and patriot II acts and it may be from them. But if I¡¦m wrong, a jury of my peers would be even better.

lol¡Kbesides, what will the book and movie rights be worth to be the first to be in court in front of a judge.

Again, I¡¦m reserving my donations for someone who actually believes they did nothing wrong and goes to court.

Good luck, lenabugs, I hope everything works out for you.

woodhead, there is a common misconception that right and justice are related. however right runs wioth religion and justice runs with government, therefore they are seperated

But still someone is fighting it. I just hope she can win or she will probably owe the RIAA millions.

I am willing to kick in how about you????
this is for our rights, that a major corporation has ignored, stand up! fight!!!!

You guys rock keep the faith.

woodhead, there is a common misconception that right and justice are related. however right runs wioth religion and justice runs with government,

I disagree they walk hand in hand together, you can not have one with out the other.

And WHO ELSE WILL OWE AND HOW MUCH?!!!!
DEAR GOD!!!!!!!!
POSTPONE THE HELL OUT OF THAT CASE JUST LIKE THEY DO FOR SURE!!!!!!!! FOR EVERY LAWYER YA HAVE, YA GOTTA GET ANOTHER TO WATCH HIS A$$...
!!!!!!!

I'm sure not giving in, lets band together and give them a real fight. No pun intended! Daymare

CriticalError

Thank you and you are the best. Stand up for your self, for if you do not who will??????

lenabugs-the best thing you can do is to get the advice of a lawyer. They should be able to explain all the options to you. I would suggest you go to eff.org click on "Subpoena Defence Alliance" then on "Help for Consumers". There you will find a list of Lawyers that are interested in your case.

Daymare you rock!!!! Stand with me, and so mant others here, we will fight the good fight.

I think this is turning into something of almost civil rights, back in the 1950's-60's. Except now we have the advantage of internet which is an enormous advantage.

We have the masses, we need today's "Rosa Parks" and "Martin Luthar Kings" to rise up and lead against this assuilt on our rights.

I think we all need to remember how many of those civil rights fighters, ended up in jail, beaten, and killed in the fight for their rights. Some of those people gave their lives, can you put a price tag on that?

IF THE RIAA BUSTS YOU DON'T QUIT DOWNLOADING, HELL TELL THEM YOU'RE DOWNLOADING, DOWNLOAD INFRONT OF THEM. RACK UP A 1 JIZZILLION DOLLAR BILL. IF EVERYONE JUST KEEPS DOING THIS, THE RIAA WILL HAVE TO SUE LIKE 50 MILLION PEOPLE, AND THIS'LL ALL FALL APART ANYWAYS. DEFY THEM RIGHT IN THEIR FACE, DON'T PUSS OUT AND ACT SCARED.

well first off all i see here is a lot of bitching what we got to start doing NOW is start a petition in each of our cities with the voters and would be voters.have them sign it. it must be on paper because the emails are most likely deleted. with with a list of demands or we will vote you out of office we put you in we can take you out.even if all the big corps in the world give you millions of dollars we can still vote you out of office. if you have better ideas or wording please do so
.# 1 change the dmca law throw it out.
# 2 stop all of this riaa law suites

The RIAA has already lost. The public and the press are turning against them. The lawsuits have made no dent in file sharing:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3430812

Finally, and most importantly, CD sales are falling off a cliff. The music industry's revenues are drying up. If they're settling lawsuits for a few thousand dollars each, they're losing a lot of money on this "sue 'em all" campaign. (Consider the huge sums they're paying lawyers and all these P2P snooping companies.) The backlash is helping our boycott. Make no mistake, this is an absolute disaster for the RIAA. They simply cannot stop file sharing. Even if the government stepped in and somehow mandated that the file sharing networks had to be blocked, or whatever, people would still share files by burning CDs and trading with friends, email, newsgroups, private networks, etc. I just can't see any way out for the RIAA. They tried and failed to find a technological solution so now they're trying to implement a legal solution. It isn't working. File sharing continues to grow. KaZaa topped 4.6 million this week - the highest ever. The RIAA has lost. It's just a matter of time before it becomes obvious to everyone.

"They can't get me, defendants in court have powerful rights!" Qoute
"Copyright law is mostly civil law. If you violate copyright you would usually get sued, not be charged with a crime. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a principle of criminal law, as is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt." Sorry, but in copyright suits, these don't apply the same way or at all. It's mostly which side and set of evidence the judge or jury accepts or believes more, though the rules vary based on the type of infringement. In civil cases you can even be made to testify against your own interests."

GIVE ME FREEDOM OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!!!!!

Hey just occourse to me. But, RIAA gained all this evidence against us illeagally, by violating our rights of privacy, and illeagal search and seizure.

Now is that evidence now NOT submitable in a court of law, becuase it was not done legally? Is that essentially how OJ Simpson got off? the LAPD planted evidence, so it made their credibility questionable, and they lost. Just more thoughts....

With civil cases it's the "preponderance of the evidence".

so why doesn't anyone go after the riaa and take them to court for their illegal actions? there's enough proof.. they wouldn't know what you have on your computer if they didn't break in in the first place now would they?.......

sorry about the spelling of suits or any others one to many after watching tect tv tonight big nothing

Hi Daymare!!!

I'm with woodhead. I'm with you too greatscottpr...

Give me my civil rights, give me what is outlined in my constitution, or jail me and give me what I have now. If I had to, I'd take my '75 Nova completly apart, piece by piece, send each piece to a different person. They'd never track it down. ; - ) But yea, I for one will vow not to back down, and to never, ever give the RIAA anything again.

~goingnova

Who says the RIAA did anything illegal to gain evidence? All they did was observe who was sharing files on P2P sites. The worst they did was break a user agreement with the P2P network but that's not the same as breaking a law.

hawk77

if all the big corps in the world give you millions of dollars we can still vote you out of office. if you have better ideas or wording please do so

This is what I am taalking about, stand up fight your self, no one else will

VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE

This was true in the past, but today almost all major nations follow the Berne copyright convention. For example, in the USA, almost everything created privately and originally after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted and protected whether it has a notice or not. The default you should assume for other people's works is that they are copyrighted and may not be copied unless you know otherwise. There are some old works that lost protection without notice, but frankly you should not risk it unless you know for sure.
It is true that a notice strengthens the protection, by warning people, and by allowing one to get more and different damages, but it is not necessary. If it looks copyrighted, you should assume it is. This applies to pictures, too. You may not scan pictures from magazines and post them to the net, and if you come upon something unknown, you shouldn't post that either.
my computer is now copyrighted.

THERE NEEDS TO BE A NATIONWIDE CLASS ACTION SUIT HEADED UP BY A REAL BAD ASS!!!! I'LL SEE ABOUT THAT!!!
GO
TIME TO GET DOWN!!!!!

the above post from hawk771 is a qoute

isn't the riaa usin trojans?

Eventually the DMCA will have to be overturned for the same reason that 55 mph maximum speed limits was overturned, and prohibition was overturned. Too many people were ignoring these laws and it made the legal system look impotent and out-of-touch to try to maintain the laws. Something like that will happen to copyright laws, or at least the DMCA. I just don't see the RIAA suing people month after month, year after year. The public will stand for only so much.

these are civil cases, not criminal. the judge determines what evidence is allowed. in p2p your files are open for other downloaders to look at. right has nothing to do with a civil case, it comes down to who's the best liar. so you must ask your self Can i lie better that the riee?

BOYCOTT VOTE

There is one thing about the RIAA claim of only knowing the name of the account holder, the files they share, and ISP that does not fit. From the articles I have read on Brianna Lahara's case, it was she and not her mother that was sued. Also according the RIAA, they scoured p2ps searching for those who offered the most files, subpeonaed the p2p for the ISP#, then subpeonaed the ISP for the name of the account holder of the ISP#. So how is it that the lawsuit was in Brianna Lahara's name and not her mother's? As far as I know a child cannot hold an ISP account, nor afford it...unless it is in the parent's name because the parent must sign up for it and pay for it. Now I could be wrong about that but I'm sure I'm not. Anyway it raises the question? How can the RIAA sue a 12 year old and not know she was 12 years old? The RIAA reason for this is in a way it is the same reason some of the people sued are saying and the RIAA is ignoring....... We didn't know
Cyne

The worst they did was break a user agreement with the P2P network but that's not the same as breaking a law.

Why is this not breaking the law?????
Ripping a CD does not even say it is agianst the law, but the RIAA says it is, this isthe problem, why can a major corporation break the agreement but you can not it is part ofthe big lie, the RIAA LIE.

... They monitered enough to have every song a user has, IP adress, everything they needed to call up an ISP and ask for names. Seems a bit odd that they would be able to gain all that info "legally" considering no one gave them permision to do so. Does that not invade rights of someone? I would not be surprised if they started taking credit card numbers while they were there, because thats essentially what they are, thieves.

I see no need to sue the RIAA or anyone else. In this country money talks. I just want to boycott the SOB's till they and the laws are forced to change.

IFeelFree did anyone say they could copy it if not it might come under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, which calls for punishment of anyone who "intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or {Exceeds Authorized Access"}

DOWN WITH THE RIAA DOWWWNN DOWNDOWN - that signature page has like 14,000 on there now - pretty cool

woodhead:

Breaking a user agreement would mean that you could be banned from their network. It doesn't mean you could be arrested. It's not a law, it's just a notice of how they want you to behave when you use their software, network, service, whatever.

Ripping a CD is not breaking the law unless you distribute it to others. If the RIAA says that simply rippping a CD is illegal than they're lieing.

O.K
The DMCA, lets a corporation look an break the user agreement. They do not have to have probable cause to look in your machine, the law can not do this right. The DMCA gives the RIAA and other "copy right holders" to issue a COURT ORDER, to find out who you arewith out a judges signature, that is right folks, a county clerk can order that you are identified, not a judge a county clerk. But waits it gets better, a county clerk in DC. not where you live but in DC. So what is wrong with this picture you tell me????

DeafToBs:

If someone shares files on a P2P network, it's easy for anyone to get a list of what they are sharing. That's what you do when you "browse" a user's folders. Since the person made the the files available, legally it would not be considered an invasion of privacy.

Well, I'm going to do it. I'm going to call my Mom ; - ) My mother is a die hard music fan, doesn't know how to use the computer, doesn't like getting involved in "heavy" issues, doesn't know what P2P is, but she buys a lot of music every year. I'm going to call her tomarrow and tell her to boycott. I've been avoiding it all this time. But not anymore. Both my older sisters and my younger brother are involved in the boycott. My father doesn't like new music and hasn't purchased music since the late '70s. But now I'll get my WHOLE family involved. I think this is what we are going to have to do. I've already passed hundreds of messages to users on the FastTrack network, now I'll have to be more invotative, get more involved, and get more people for our cause.

~goingnova

now thats bs, Dc's not even considered a state, and its got more power than the rest.

Ripping a CD is not breaking the law unless you distribute it to others. If the RIAA says that simply rippping a CD is illegal than they're lieing.

DId you know that if you buy a CD and make a tape for your self that is "fairuse" but if you buy a CD and record a copy for your self, then one for your wife the copy for your wife is in thier words "piracy" or at least the way I understood it. There is actaully an mp3 on WWW.Dmusic.com where you can hear this. Rosen isthe one who states what "fairuse" is and I bet you would be as surprise as I was when I heard it

Woodhead:

Exactly. A lot of people (even those who don't support P2P) have trouble with the fact that a court clerk can issue a subpoena on the flimsiest of evidence. However, recent rulings show that the subpoena has to be issued in the jurisdiction in which the person lives. That's a small victory, but at least it's a big inconvenience for the RIAA. They have to visit every damn courthouse in the country to get everyone.

heh, i've been persuading people at kmart (yes i work there ... ) to put back cd's, to bad my manager was not to happy with the idea. Just spread around the word a bit of who you "really" support when you buy a cd.

Date: September 13, 2003 @ 1:30 AM
I see no need to sue the RIAA or anyone else. In this country money talks. I just want to boycott the SOB's till they and the laws are forced to change

Amen buddy you have the idea that we are thinking : )

Wee nead a new thread!!!, lol ; - ) Right on DeafToBs!!

woodhead:

Making a copy for a family member would be considered copyright infringement. However, there is some debate whether users are allowed to make a single backup copy of a CD. It's been stated that a strict reading of the DMCA says that just making a backup copy may not be legal. It's never been tested in the courts, that I know of. Copyright law is a mess, so I wouldn't be suprised if there are contradictions and ambiguous areas.

Well, unfortunatly kmart sells few cd's, but it'll be about 20 less this month

Ifeelfree
This is so true, it is so dark and unexplained and this is the reason that I get so upset for ppl laying down and giving in. Stand up, fight for your right to be here or better yet fight your right to party, do not lay down, this has NEVER been brought top a court and I feel that the RIAA does not want it to, they may actually lose the fight in a court room.

GO USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
www.eff.org/A/

For war there is a need of the tools to facilitate that goal. What tools are present? Media mistranslation & fluffery, Endless posts on message boards, protests, boycotts or risking your genuine freedom (jail) for something that has NO value (a free mp3)by performing some rash illegal action. Why bother to resist the RIAA or the hoards of other major groups that are backing them? Out of all of the "rights" we a americans have to show our disdain for the actions of the RIAA the only vaguely functional option is to boycott, but where would we be without our Sony™ PS2's, DVD's and the countless other products that must be subject to boycott to be effective.

Pride. Simply pride leads us to hold the belief that these dizzing and grotesquely rich corporations can be stopped or even swayed by a few (and likely equally guilty) people. The truth is that there is no way in this united states that the ends we desire can or will be realized. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.

This provocation is not an opinion of mine but a proven historical fact.

"now thats bs, Dc's not even considered a state, and its got more power than the rest." DeafTOBs

Yes the goverment of DC has a lot of power because DC is run by Congress. However the residents of DC are powerless since DC does not have a vote in the House or Senate. Although it does have a Representative, the Representative has no vote. For years now DC residents have fought for the same thing our founding fathers/mothers fought for NO TAXATION WITHOUT EQUAL REPRESENTATION.
I know it is OT but felt it was important since in a way it fits what this site is about.
Cyne

Just because the riaa is asking for huge amounts doesn’t mean they are going to get them. You might be found guilty and penalized a penny a song.

The point of the user agreement is that it doesn’t allow for the activity that they were engaged in on the network so they accessed the network out side of the user agreement that members of the network believed they were operating under. By doing this, they made the access of the user’s data unauthorized.

To add to the travesty, they only have to say they are the copyright holder and don’t have to prove it to anyone. This makes the opportunity for identity theft and opens the way for a lot of personal information, like addresses and phone numbers, available to every tom, dick and harry that wants to fill out a form in DC and has your ip from where ever.

If the RIAA is threating 150,000 for a tune why settle for 2000, if you are right????? this is all PR for the RIAA
"see we are not so bad we threatened this but gave you a break" bullsh**, this is simply a ploy to get you to give in to what THEY WANT YOU TO DO!!!!!! stand strong, do not give in, you are AMERICAN WE TAKE NO S*** FROM ANY ONE!!!!!!!!

baayne:

Boycotts have often been successful in the past in getting corporations to change their ways. As for bankrupting corporations like Sony, no, that's not going to happen. What will happen is that the music divisions of these corporations will become so unprofitable that the corporations will sell them off, merge, or shut them down entirely. These corporations only want to make money. If the music divisions are failing they'll cut them loose fast. That's what we are trying to accomplish.

You mis-understand, i dont think DC's bad, anything misleading, i just think that having jurisdiction over other states... (all 50) is not a good thing. I wouldnt mind if DC became a "true" state or not.

History repeats itself time and time again...

baayne, the Populist party did it back in the 1890's. They initially lost, but the new generation afterwards adopted the populists ideals and eventually won in the end.

But hey, that's just from what I've been reading about. I've been reading a lot about the Populist party and William Mckinley (probably spelled wrong), but there seems to be a lot in common with William Mckinley and George W.

~goingnova

Just saw an interview on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" and he spoke with singer/songwriter Liz Phair about the recent lawsuits. This former independent/alternative performer had little sympathy for those being sued and towed the line for the RIAA, calling downloaders "theives", as did Bill Maher. As Liz Phair attempts to rekindle a sagging career by going pop/neo-glamorous/pro RIAA, remember we need to boycott these artists.

For war there is a need of the tools to facilitate that goal. What tools are present? Media mistranslation & fluffery, Endless posts on message boards, protests, boycotts or risking your genuine freedom (jail) for something that has NO value (a free mp3)by performing some rash illegal action. Why bother to resist the RIAA or the hoards of other major groups that are backing them? Out of all of the "rights" we a americans have to show our disdain for the actions of the RIAA the only vaguely functional option is to boycott, but where would we be without our Sony™ PS2's, DVD's and the countless other products that must be subject to boycott to be effective.

Pride. Simply pride leads us to hold the belief that these dizzing and grotesquely rich corporations can be stopped or even swayed by a few (and likely equally guilty) people. The truth is that there is no way in this united states that the ends we desire can or will be realized. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.

This provocation is not an opinion of mine but a proven historical fact


from the way I read this, you have already givin up and I feel sorry for you, this is the greatest country on the face of the earth, but it is missguided and WE can change that.
We the most powerful tool in a war.
We can Vote and make our words and voices heard.

Examples of successful boycotts against corporations include the GE Boycott, which pushed General Electric out of the nuclear weapons business, and the Nestle Boycott, which brought about significant reforms in Nestle's aggressive marketing of infant formula in developing countries.

Wow, Bill Mahar must have sold out. I would have figured he would have been on the side of 60 million filesharers, rather that 5 corporations. Thanks for the info GreenManalishi.

~goingnova

Remember this fight is about money, and WE ARE THE SOURCE. You kill the queen ant, to kill the colony. Stop it at the source, and it will fall.

goingnova, it's the heart feltness of the message here on this FREEDOM THREAD, not the spelling! READ/WRITE/TYPE AND FIGHT ON!!!!
ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!!!!
GO
RIGHT ON!!!!!!!

Hardly can free music & the inalienable human rights be compared. I like free stuff just as much as the next guy, but seriously look at the facts. Even if 100,000 people agreed to boycott these companies products' @ $15.00 per cd lossed then the loss for these companies would be 1.5 mil. I work for a company that measures there profit in the hundreds of millions for one service alone and I can assure you that my employer will never see the pages of fortune 500.

GreenManalishi:

Yes, there are still a lot of people who support the RIAA, but they are losing support all the time. A growing number of musicians are beginning to speak out against the RIAA. See, for example, "Artists blast record companies over lawsuits against downloaders":

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/09/11/MN12066.DTL

"Green Manalishi" I have that song and the video of early Fleetwood Mac. Thats back when Fleetwood Mac was doing real Rock & Roll.

I'm with you woodhead! And IFeelFree is definitely reminding us of the tools it takes to win. These corporations are using the most evil weapon against us right now. It's ignorance. People need to be educated. It think it's going to be up to people like us to educate the people, to strike down the only weapon, besides money, that these corporations have.

~goingnova

woodhead, I can assure you i need no pity and have not "given up" or given in. Any vote against the profit of even 5 companies that contribute billions in tax dollars will fall on deaf ears.

baayne:

With all the bad press the RIAA is getting, I'll bet the number of people who are, or will be, boycotting are in the millions. To that, add all the people who download and don't need to buy CDs. Even the RIAA has admitted to a double-digit fall CD sales. They are huring, even by their own admission.

Yes, but they only tax what they make, and, you cannot say after the "sue em all" campain, that more than 100,000 did not start boycott'ing, because they did.

In some ways, it doesn't matter what happens to the RIAA. Technology has made it increasingly easy to exchange digital content. I don't see how that's going to be reversed. You can outlaw it but there are millions of people still using P2P every day. Even with the lawsuits it keeps growing. 4.6 million users on KaZaa this week - the highest ever.

goingnova,
GREED IS DESTOYING THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just saw an interview on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" and he spoke with singer/songwriter Liz Phair about the recent lawsuits. This former independent/alternative performer had little sympathy for those being sued and towed the line for the RIAA, calling downloaders "theives", as did Bill Maher. As Liz Phair attempts to rekindle a sagging career by going pop/neo-glamorous/pro RIAA, remember we need to boycott these artists.

We listen to what we want to buy what we want to and boycott who we want to.
It is so sad to see an artist to fought so hard to have her voice heard
and then tell the ppl who listened you are thieves. Where is Sid Vicous when you need him??(I know he's dead damnit)

so by that merit the harder you squeeze an oarnge the more sweet juice you get. right? yet i strive to see what "right" we as consumers we have to free music as the the concept of free and the definition of consumer have even the slightest thing in common. I feel very strongly that the loss these companies feel, the "squeeze" as it were, cannot be justified by pilfering up to $150,000 per file from hapless music lovers. Clearly a bittersweet juice they drink.

"5 companies that contribute billions in tax dollars"

wanna bet?

millions in campaign contributions would be more accurate.

who on earth really wants to hear Liz freaking phair or the countless other glam acts, that is not music anyway.

woodhead, I can assure you i need no pity and have not "given up" or given in. Any vote against the profit of even 5 companies that contribute billions in tax dollars will fall on deaf ears.

The sad thing about ppl who support these companies, most of the RIAA do not live here, they want our money and that is all, they do not care about our civil liberties, they do not live in this country, there fore we do not matter, and the scary thing is they have lobby groups with money who persuade OUR government this alone should p*** you off.

Yeah CriticalError, I bet that is billions in campaign contributions or favorite charities and even WARS!!!!!!!!

"yet i strive to see what "right" we as consumers we have to free music as the the concept of free and the definition of consumer have even the slightest thing in common."

They have alot in common. Even the RIAA streams "free" music (which can be recorded) and gives away "free" CD's as a promotional tool to people in hopes that they will become "consumers".

I dont think it was ever declared, we were all in favor of "free" p2p, more or less, people want the artist to get paid, support the artist, but get rid of the corperate part, the RIAA.

These are the people who truly have the least effect on the music, but want to be paid for it. Thats what needs to be stopped. Im not here for a free music service, i want to see my favorite artists and bands supported so they continue to make quality music. The corperate side of music needs to end. Thats what this is about.

A close friend of mine recently copied me on an e-mail sent to our satate congress where he detailed his feelings on this issue. His email was ended with the line, "Just remember a true artist isn't making art for love of money, they are making art for the love of art." he e-mailed this to me with the knowledge of my aspirations of a career in the arts. i can't help but agree fully with these words but does that someday mean that everyone has the right to take the food from my childrens mouths'?

We need to end the deficit!!! I know the President can't make dollar bills but He can make a few coins that say PAID IN FOOL!!!!!!!!

There are a lot of great ppl that come here, just to name a few, Code_warrior,
seriphiex(I cant spell it sorry bro)
Jazzmary, meryl, george, ronnie, thumbtack and the rest we will stand with you we do, so come here earlier in the day and they will be here, and have better advice than I do these guys brock and if you have any questions these are the ppl to ask.
Well I am an old man to most of you and I need some rest I have to work in the morn, so will see you guys tomorrow
and keep the faith and as rosemary would say

EDUCATE REGISTAR VOTE

There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Think about it : )

You guys ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your missing the point baayne. No one is here to hurt the artist, rather support them. But the RIAA is not the artist, rather a corperation out to use artists for money as they've done many years now.

Its time to stop that.

If these distribution corporations are stopped, hypothetically, who then will supply the masses with the latest copy of you favorite artists new album? will the artist go door to door selling albums? Is it possible that each artist can actually be expected to support their own website? i doubt that eminem know how to code html.

2nd THAT WOODHEAD AND THANKS!
GO

I think its time to "Adapt or Die" as its been said. Sure an artist can support its self off a website selling derectly to consumers. But is it not by touring and do'ing concerts that a recording artist makes the most money? Not by selling cd's that a recoding company makes all the profit off of.

baayne, with the price of oil and gasoline, I expect there's a whole lotta people walking door to door. Like I read on maybe this thread? One kid said He was writing boycott RIAA on a piece of paper and placing it on his backpack!!!! That was heavy!!!!!

I agree and cannot dispute that touring is the greatest source of capital for the artists, but who will book the venue?

Things will change, not everything happends over night, but im sure alot of responsibility will be put on managers of bands assuming the industry gives in under all this pressure.

look, i'm not trying to discredit the reason we all feel the way we do, but we MUST think of all the possible reprocutions for both sides to ensure we are fighting the good fight.

If the freedoms we enjoy and the rights we have are what makes this country as great as it is were based on anything less than our undying desire to turn a profit this would be a non issue.

I think more pressure on artists and bands is a good thing. The harder it becomes to get booked for concerts and tours, the better quality the music will need to be. No system is perfect, but i think its wise to choose the one less flaw'd.

I AM SO HAPPY! This site is BOOMING! Leflaw, Bill, Jon, and even George Z, THE WORD IS GETTING OUT, I SEE SO MUCH HAPPENING NOW, Hopefully ppl will stick around and post and post and post!

baayne, I'll go ask those big corporations if ya give me their addresses and phone numbers! I guess we'll just have to wait and see on that one!!!
Right now I'd say it may be some colleges!!!!
POWER TO THE
GO

We have the masses, we need today's "Rosa Parks" and "Martin Luthar Kings" to rise up and lead against this assuilt on our rights

We have have them, they are here with you right now. read, listen, understand they are here, at this site.

Yes but, making a profit should be for the band, not an executive sitting in the office who just got done forcing a 14 year old into debt. The RIAA is old and outdated. I think this has as much to do with artist's rights, as the rights of people.

baayne--I think you bring up some good points. I dont nessacerily want to put the Recording Companies out of buisness. But they need to adapt and change or be left behind.

well, that's my rant. as a new user i'll rate the conversation 10 of 10, "very eye-opening and informed"
I'll definitely be back for more, to the dismay of some, but have no fear RIAA anarchy is underway.
thanks all....baayne

ok guys here is an artical for you to read

http://dir.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/index.html

I am so happy directive is happy but I could and baayne The future is not ours to see and whatever will be truly will be! All we can do is our best but we just gotta shift this mutha in OVERDRIVE!!!!
I don't know what else I can do to ensure ya! I guess the proof is in the puddin!!!
GO

wood... i refer to Rosa/martin as people who did actions, not just words.... yes we have petitions and everyone talks about what to do, but i've yet to see the person take up serious legal action against the RIAA.

goodnite for real this time

YOU F***** rock
Keep the faith
Fight the good fight

I would like to see a website containing a coalition between artists and consumers so we can start discussing how the artists are going to make money after the fall of the RIAA. The popular artisits already have plenty of money to change to a differnt business model, but it would be neat to be able to discuss the situation directly with them. Go TO BED WOODHEAD, THIS WILL BE HERE IN THE MORN'N, ; - )

~goingnova

goingnova, i'd pay to see that venue..but in the words of woodhead, "goodnite for real this time"

Sleep tight Ya'll that can and sweet dreams!!!
And thanks again!!!
I know we will WIN!!!!!!!
GO

Goodnight ya'll!! Rock on!
Good posts greatscottpr...!
~goingnova

Musicians (And a Few Others) Talk About the Music Industry

http://www.rockrap.com/nomusicbiz/musician.html

This is rom the Napster days but worth readin.

I must be getting tired --- rom should be 'from' readin should be 'reading'.

If link wont work take the off the end of the address.

If link wont work take the 'br' off the end of the address.

Man I ought to go to bed. lol

Bayne you are right we are not entitled to free music. However there are exceptions to downloading music imo.

1) The music is not offered in a way that we can pay for it.
2) The artists approve downloading of their music.
3) To sample an album before purchase since a lot of music now is crap called music.
4) To promote local Indie artists who deserve to be heard by the world but aren't because of the way the industry is set-up.

However, I didn't decide to boycott the RIAA because of their disapproval of downloading. I decided to boycott the RIAA because of the actions to kill downloading altogether rather then work on a solution to benefits both artists and consumers.

Cyne

i can't belive there havent been any new threads...everybody must be at tech tv....

code?

and the difference in copying music from the internet unto a cd as opposed to using a hand held mike up to a speaker to record songs being played on the radio? The quality you say? So it is ok if we buy a lower grade cd-r? Or how about if I hook up a set of speakers I buy at a flea market that are generic with horrible sound quality? Hypocrisy at it's finest I think.

I am new to posting here but have been following the news on this site for some time. I am a file sharer and yes I know I am file sharing and damn proud of it! Now to my point, I find most people in here very noble for wanting to support those that are on the hit list but something needs to be put into place to keep cons from collecting money with the use of a false story.(Not saying this one is false)But with everyone being so emotional about sticking it to the RIAA it would be very easy for someone to gather collections therby causing money that could have been well spent funneled away. Just something to think about!

I understand why this person decided to settle the case. According to the law as it stands, it would be very hard to defend against. The problem is that the law is wrong, but changing a law such as this is next to impossible and jury nullification is illegal.

The difference in downloading mp3's and buying cd's is cost and quality. Many of the people that are downloading are the same ones who would patiently listen to the radio because they cant afford the cd's. While file swapping is costing the RIAA lots of money, what is really costing them is their antiquated business model.

The RIAA is trying to scare people off of sites like Kazaa with these lawsuits. If enough people stop downloading then the RIAA wins.

Prosecuting downloaders in this manner is like giving lengthy prison sentences to random people caught speeding on the freeway to make a point or possibly sending every speeder to jail. They cant send everyone to jail or to court. The court system would collapse with 60 million lawsuits.

In a perfect world, all 60 million of us would stand together and say we aint gonna take it anymore by continuing to download until the RIAA gives us a viable alternative and then saying take me to jail when you get sued because were not paying the RIAA a single cent.

Unfortunately this is not a perfect world and the majority of people out there will stop downloading till the smoke clears giving the RIAA a win in this battle instead of fighting what is clearly wrong.

Want to enjoy free music downloads without getting in trouble? Please read my article "Links to Tens of Thousands of Legal Music Downloads" at:

http://www.goingware.com/tips/legal-downloads.html

It is Google's #1 search hit for the query "legal music downloads"

My article also explores the history of U.S. copyright law and suggests steps you can take to make file sharing legal. The suggestions I make are:

* Speak Out
* Vote
* Write to Your Elected Representatives
* Donate Money to Political Campaigns
* Support Campaign Finance Reform
* Join the Electronic Frontier Foundation
* Practice Civil Disobedience

Lorraine, I'm sorry this happen to you and among others. I don't have the money myself to help anyone, but if I did have extra cash, I would be happy to help out.

I can't believe how greedy these people and artists are being about the music sharing, they sell plenty of CDs and make millions or even billions of dollars and its sad what they are doing now.

I have read tons of articles about whats going on, all I can think of is fighting back, in your own way, I decided that I'm not going to buy any music CDs ever again! I'm sick of rich people walking all over people and being so selfish...

There is always online and offline radio to listen to

I love listening to music, but these people have gone too far, but I'm surprised they went this low, if anyone else can see the truth, the rich own america, we the not so lucky are just pawns.

We "the fans" need to take a stand, because we are the ones that pay their salary by listening, seeing and watching their music, plays, and movies.

I'm only one person, but maybe someday things will change, anyways this is my opinion(s).

A friend and supporter,
Brian
shimbuka@msn.com

Bill Mahrer supports the RIAA sue campaign. Hmm. I guess that's another person I'll have to scratch off my list. Will not support his book that just came out.

Right now, I'm in the process of doing a very stupid thing. I'm writing a letter to one of my favorite artists, Peter Gabriel, that appeared on the list of RIAA cheerleaders and asking him, point blank...why? I know I probably won't get a response. But, what the hell. I dunno. The only thing I can do is try. It's sad after supporting an artist's records after 20 years, they do some type of shit like this.

My youngest sister listens to Liz Phair a lot. I'm going to tell her not to buy Liz's albums from now own. She could save her cash to maybe go to a club...whatever, as long as it's not going into the pockts of the RIAA.

Where are the attorney's when you need them? Why aren't attorney's volunteering to help fight the RIAA and defend these people for free? If that doesn't happen then we need a National Defense Fund to contribute to the fight. Are we going to put our money where our mouths are? I think the P2P's need to start that Defense fund with contributions themselves upfront.

MichaelCrawford

That is a VERY informative site you got there. Saved it into favorites! I encourage everyone here to check it out.

Shmoo, of Electric Gypsy
Support Local and Independent Music!

ok, for one the RIAA would not settle for such a small sum if they honestly felt they were right, second, i have nothing at all to loose, so i have a wreked 91 supra, and an old 81 malibu that needs lots of work, as far as my other stuff *computer, tv, stereo, stuff like that* no title so could just stash it somewhere else, i live with my parents, i'm unemployed, and a GREAT lawyer is a friend of the family, i can honestly say if i came up on the list, i would fight, but then again, i'm a U.S. Army Vet, i have fought for what i felt is right, my country, and i would base my whole fight on them inciting terror in the american public, they are scaring little kids and old people, and they aren't scaring them for they artist, they are scaring them for the money in their pocket, they have openly admited this money isn't going to the artist, ti's going to sue more people, yet another scare tatic, if i had any money i would donate it to a general fund to help people out! yes, i say fight, fight your ass off, make peple see the terror in your eyes cause you are SCARED of these people and what they may do to the american way of life and the freedoms many people have died for over the years, and will contine to fight and die for! WE ARE RIGHT, THEY ARE WRONG!

United WE Stand

The riaa is settling for such small sums because they know they will get that out of you. I want to see them get 100 million or so out of a poor kid in a housing project. That's absurd. Yeah I learned to shit money this week so I'll just make you up a few mill. Hey riaa. sue me. I won't settle and if you think I'm ever going to have 100 million to give you then you really are stupid.

damn, i think i need to just start writing the stuff i post here in word so i can spell check it LOL oh well, such is life

United WE Stand

Hey riaa. sue me. I won't settle and if you think I'm ever going to have 100 million to give you then you really are stupid.

my sentimants exactly : )

Draken -
You don't need to write it in Word, just get this FREE little program.

www.iespell.com

kyodylee, thanks! can type fast, but make tons of typos lol toi much chatting and stuff like that, but such is life

Eventually one of these cases will go to court and we will see how well their evidence holds up. Even though they have a listing of shared directory of some they have asbolutely no idea how many of the songs were actually uploaded. I also wonder if having a static IP address made it more likely to be on the shit list.

woodhead- having not seen the evidence presented before the court, it's hard for me to comment intelligently. It all depends on how the "evidence" was collected, and if a jury trial is in the offing, what the Judge allows the jury to hear, and what is admitted as evidence. Absolute proof of the file being on the computer, being "offered" for download by others, evidence that the file was indeed an "unauthorized" copy of the song, and that the RIAA is the actual and legal proxy for the registered copyright owner, are all questions that must be examined. I think the strongest case for the defense involves the manner in which the "evidence" was collected peronally.
~code

Is it possible to keep this article listed on the top of the page so that everybody, including new visitors, can see it and help this girl out?

I just emailed her and let her know we were all behind her. I will be printing out copies of her site and dropping them in various places around campus. Including taping it up right next to those annoying ass DMCA flyers. It's all I can do, but I hope it helps.

Code, I know all too well about being broke. Lately churchmice have taken to leaving things at my doorstep!

I have deep sympathy for those unfortunates being sued by the "evil empire" (RIAA). I am saddend that unfortuneatly most people will , for various reasons , settle rather than fight. I understand also that most of those who settle feel they have no choice.
Everyone has to do what is best for them , and everone has different circumstances.
I am just bothered by the fact that many honest, hard working , average Americans are even faced with this problem in the first place.

anyway that's my two cents,

WABBITMAN

To 'GreenManalishi' about useful idiots Liz Phair and Bill Maher smearing P2P computer users as 'thieves': Five'll get you ten if Al Franken were asked about it, he'd probably label 'em 'thieves' as well. Which, if he did, would only underscore the hypocrisy of his own "free speech" defense against Fox News.

First of all my real problem with this is, that the artists don't get the money I pay for CDs. It goes to all the middle men. Do the math

What do you want from those who settle? What can they do? According to the current laws they are guilty. The only question is what will be the punishment. All they do is try to minimize the punishment.

Until more secure networks will be built, the RIAA has enough evidence to incriminate whoever they decide. All or the vast majority of the 261 first victims as well as those in the second wave will settle. I would do the same.

Boycotting is our strongest weapon.

If you want to download music with little risk of lawsuit, simply move files out of your shared folder immediately after download. Files will always be available worldwide anyway, we don't have to get them from servers in the U.S.! There's no need for guilt over lack of sharing in this situation. The RIAA is targeting Americans, now we will target the RIAA. Downloading will continue forever, and cd sales will continue to plummet. RIAA, be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it.

ronnie71- great points, but here is what I say. The RIAA told TechTV, that in a few weeks, they will fire off several hundred more lawsuits, and then , every few months, fire off hundreds more, until they "cover every jurisdiction" with lawsuits. I think they want to get a bunch of poor people to settle first, because if they sue people with big bucks who actually take theses things to a jury trial, they would be hemorrhaging money. This isn't to say they could not afford it. They have millions at their disposal and are all lawyered up.
But, just think, 250 lawsuits, at maybe a 100 grand each for an extended trial by jury, we are getting into millions. So, they want to get a bunch of people agreeing to 10-20,000 a piece. I honestly think they don't fully appreciate what bad PR suing poor people is for them. Nor, do they care. They are heartless, insensitive bastards, plain and simple.

They are intentionally and with malice of forethought, inducing fear and loathing in their own customer base, so much so that they are going to make people start getting sick of the word "music". And the insane thing about this is, we ALL know that their ultimate goal is to distribute music via an online download system. Hmmm, you make national headlines associating financial ruin and litigation with RIAA music, and then you think ultimately you will put in place a successful distribution model, allowing people to download RIAA music.

Just how socially retarded ARE these jerks!
~code

i say fight, fight your ass off, make peple see the terror in your eyes cause you are SCARED of these people and what they may do to the american way of life and the freedoms many people have died for over the years, and will contine to fight and die for! WE ARE RIGHT, THEY ARE WRONG!

As one great man said "the only thing to fear is fear it's self"

We are Americans, we do have a choice, boycott and vote. This is your right that some many have fought and died for, use it and we will be heard.

"I'll cancel my phone and cable, live off of Ramen noodles and use candles - but I don't want to have to give away my cats. "
Lorraine, you really touched me with that one line. I have two cats and feel the exact same way. And, I understand what you are saying completely. And, if I personally have ANYTHING to say that means anything to anyone on this board, I want to use any influence I have with you to stress this. The RIAA, in scaring this young lady, and treating her like a friggin' criminal, are pathogenic SLIME, and parasites. You cannot take a parasitic flukeworm, and make them anything but a parasite. I'm gonna personally make Lorraine, to be a rallying call around this issue. I don't know where this movement will end up, or when it will end, but reading about the fear and lonliness that this has caused in this young lady, makes me really, really angry.
And, RIAA, you can have millions upon millions, you can have senators in your pocket, and you can have sharks in suits filing complaints in every jurisdiction, but you have earned a lifelong enemy in me. Not only will I never buy any record from any label you are associated with, but will never download your crap whether it is free or pay.

You bastards deserve prison, plain and simple, and I honestly hope to live long enough to see Cary-Sue becoming someone's bunk buddy.

HEY CARY-SUE AND THE RIAA....SCREW YOU!

What do you want from those who settle? What can they do? According to the current laws they are guilty

WHat happened to due process, you are innocent untill proven guilty.

I feel that until someone takes this to court we have no idea what the outcome will be. Do not lay down your right's that is what the RIAA is wanting us to do. I agree with Draken
if the RIAA new for sure in a court of law that they could win there would be no settelments out of court. Yea maybe this is a pr stunt to say "we are not so bad, see give us 2000 bucks and we will call it even" BUllS*** ifthis was true, then why os the RIAA telling everyone, that if you settle we will only fine you 2000, maybe three grand
if you do not settle we are going to sue for 50 grand or more. This is an intemidation factor and ppl are falling fot it, if they can win the 50 grand hands down why settle for less, this is the question you need to ask your self

The part where she mentions being misled by advertising and the lack of a clear disclaimer is VERY understandable. I hope the RIAA has sued SOMEONE with money so they can fight this crap!

Code you are da man, and it is terrible what the RIAA has done to her and some many more, and more to come.
But this also makes me very angry that this corporation and destroy some ones life for a f***** song, almost makes me ashamed of being a musician.

Petition signer #18690 here!

Woodhead, I hear you. I still say too many artists are keeping silent about this. I understand they may be afraid of "alienating" their fans, but the RIAA has already done that for them.

It's easy for us to say, but more artists need to come forward and denounce the way their listening fans are being treated. They need to take a chance, and show some support for the people who listen to the music they make.

I still say the RIAA would be better served if they sent out some heavy-duty cease-and-desist letters instead of jumping on people with both feet.

It's mighty chilling to be staring down the barrel of legal action. Say what we want, but I know darn well they'd get MY attention if they sent me a legal letter, telling me the next action if I got caught again would be a lawsuit.

But, no, they have to fire both barrels the first time they contact someone, and that's too severe for just sharing music, IMO.

The boycott continues.

I agree about the artist thing, but with legal binding contracts for this indentured servants, they can say nothing or would be sued as well.
But some have spoke out such as Courtney Love, it was in the nabster thing but she did stand up and fight the industry and spilled the guts on the whole lot of the recording industry. You can see the article at salon.com I think, if yopu can not find it email me and I will send you a link.
woodheadboycott@hotmail.com

I know, most of them have been muzzled by their contract holders. That really has to suck, because animosity grows toward the industry with each lawsuit. And, whether they like it or not, they are part of that industry, and they get hurt in the fallout as well.

Yeah, I've read the Courtney Love stuff, she has nothing good to say about the recording industry. For good reason.

How can i create a paypal account at the age of 17?

Anyways, Lorrainne, i'll see if i can find something to contribute.
AND TO THE DICK THAT SUED HER, YOU'D BETTER INVEST SOME OF THAT MONEY IN A CUP, CAUSE IF I SEE YOU ON THE STREET I'M GOING TO KICK YOU AS HARD AS I CAN IN THE NUTS.

keep fighting for your rights, unless you're really just a pirating thief, in which case, may i give you a big old friendly "ARRRR" cause pirates kick ass.

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER.

EFF petition passed 20k signatures.. keep it going...!!

I'm curious, if we do succeed in eventually defeat the RIAA, what does that mean to the poor (litterly) folks that the RIAA have financially raped? Will any of the 261 people already served get any of their money, dignity or public image back? If they loose their home, jobs or spouses (and respect from others) as a result of the RIAA's actions, can they reclaim any of it from the RIAA's hide? If the answer is "no", then all these people are fodder for the beast. Truely a sad siduation.

I agree, Tinker, that's why I wish people would just stop putting their necks on the line, at least for now.

How can i create a paypal account at the age of 17?

I don't if you can, but you may. Have a credit card????, Checking account?????
I do not know if there is an age limit, but there may be.

Ya i got a checking account.

well see if you can it is that simple, but the age thing may be a factor, but you never know until you try.
So try.

Keep the faith.

Holy crap, now they've pissed off code!

lol paul, do you really find that suprising? they have pissed off alot of their consumers, and thats why we are boycotting them, cause we are tired of their totalitarian tatics, it needs to stop, and it needs to stop NOW, but we all know that a boycott takes time, thats fine, during that time they won't see a penny of my money!

United WE Stand

Hey Lorraine, instead of begging for money, have you approached the ACLU about your case? There are groups, the ACLU is included, that look at this sort of thing. The determination that this action is a invasion of privacy still has not been determined by the supreme court. Abortion(Not to get into a fight about this) is legal not because it was a procedure, but stopping it was an invasion of privacy.

I have got to admit that the EFF's response of "go get a lawyer" has been poor at best. What they should do is try to band the folks into a pool of defendants. Or maybe pick a person to defend this action to the Supreme Court.

Have you written to the "open source" pioneers of the internet? They are rich because info was freely shared over the net in the beginning. The may sympathize with your pilght.

You may find these alternatives more useful than settling.

I'm a bit late chiming in on this, and I think this is actually my first post, though I've been following things here for a while, and I give props to pretty much everyone here. Anyway. Like I said, I'm a bit late, but I'd like to respond to baayne's questions about distribution/booking tours if suddenly the floor was to drop away and the major labels weren't there to deal with those logistics. As a musician who has been playing and touring with punk bands for the past 15 years, I can testify that it really isn't that difficult to book your own tours. It's getting easier and cheaper all the time, in fact, now that the internet has eliminated the need for endless long-distance phone calls. Distribution is no big trick either, and I don't think anyone here is calling for an end to record labels and/or distributors as such. There's a reason that record labels exist, but as a musician, I know that I would rather work with a smaller label that actually gives a damn about what they release than an enormous bureaucracy that thinks in terms of 'units moved' and 'market niches'. The 'music industry' (those two words should never appear next to each other, imo) should be operated by, and for, musicians, not accountants and lawyers. A move toward smaller labels working independently of the media conglomerates would have the added advantage of bringing the days of the manufactured popstar to an end, and rewarding musicians who actually were willing to make an effort at writing good songs, and god forbid, possibly even being involved in the business aspects of their careers!

I guess this was pretty long for a first post, so I'll shut the hell up now. Thanks to everyone for all the effort they've put into this fight, and for the record, I'm sharing 4,000+ files as of this post - I've got nothing for them to take, and they sure as hell won't be taking my dignity!

what happened to all those lawyers who claim "we don't see a cent till you do"?? I think a lot of them were/are civil ie workmans comp and ssa, but hell guys.. some of the people that are suing will BE on the dole if they can't afford reasonable representation. Besides, if you DO decided to take on the RIAA, one of the first things you should do is file a countersuit for costs if you win. It's legal, has been done, and works. Even if they appeal (assuming they lose, which is possible), they have to pay costs, because that's part of the original standing in court. I know it's a bit convoluted.
The riaa knew this would happen. They knew they'd get a lot of people with little or no money, and I'd bet that before they even filed the first subpoena, they had a list of.. let's call it settlement options..to go with. I'm very sure they did this. Not only would it be in their best interests, in case they sued the wrong person and wanted to back out, but they also did it so they could act "out of fairness" Imagine.."we're going to sue you, but oh damn,you don't have a lot of money. Oh well, you can get us off your back for a mere 1/2 of 1% of what we would sue you for" I've seen time and again how they say they've not picked a specific amount to sue for (they are entitled to 750-150K/song for those who don't know). THIS IS WHY!
First: they know they're NOT going to get 150K for each song, that's just stupid. BUT they didn't want to lowball it and make people think they COULD afford to pay if they were sued.
Second: if they DID name a specific amount, for round numbers let's say 10K/song.. then when the settlement DID reach the public, and we saw it was for 1% or so of the original complaint, then we would laugh at them and say they lost anyway!
Spin Spin Spin.
What a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to decieve.
TTMMM

Warning, pure conjecture on my part, my legal knowledge is pitiful.

It's also quite possble that any lawyer you talk to will tell you that you don't have a legal case. I'm not criticising anyone, but let's face it: you share copyrighted material, you get caught, end of story. Sure, they might want to argue invasion of privacy, etc., but most laywers are probably already thinking about these situations and what they'll tell a client if they get one.

It was suggested that the RIAA is settling for comparative "peanuts" in these cases because they know they don't have a case. I think it's more pragmatic than that: they want fast and easy, because it costs money to bring legal action, even for deep pockets like the RIAA. They also know there's no way in the world they could collect million dollar settlements from average citizens.

Not only that, imagine how it would look in the news media if they leaned on someone like Brianna (no offense, Lorraine) for a million dollars, and actually tried to collect it. Even the hardcore sharers in college only got hit with $15,000-20,000 settlements, and the one guy was running a "server", for crying out loud.

Hmm, I wonder how 12 yr old Brianna feels about buying CDs from her favorite artists now?

I agree, it's all about spin.

Can someone tell me where this figure of $150K per song came from? Seems just a tad high. Where is the RIAA getting this? How could they ever PROVE it in court? Just becuz someone has 1700 songs in their share folder doesn't mean they shared ALL of them...and it certainly doesn't mean that the ones they DID share should amount to $150K each. That's ridiculous! I'd like to see them prove how many times each song was shared. But I know that it frightens the people who are being sued and I can't blame them for settling. I only hope that someone with some dough takes the a-holes of the RIAA to task.

I liked surfside's idea of creating a pool of defendants. Wish it would happen. In the meantime...boycott, boycott, BOYCOTT! I love this site. It helps me know I'm not nutz!!

I think present statutes allow for damages in the amount of 750 to 150k per infringement, and the RIAA counts each file you have as one infringement.

plus, let us not forget, sen. "open" hatch was/is pushing a bill that would say that every song in your shared folder has been d/led 10 times so they could avarage everything out, now if you have 100 songs, they want to charge you upto $150k per infrigment, that would leave you with a judgement of $150,000,000. ok so you play it smart and get rid of everything before court so you have nothing but the clothes on yoru back anyway, make it look like you sold everythign in order to pay for this, so they are nice, they charge you the basic $75k per song, so you are down at $75,000,000 for those 100 songs...sorry, with the law they have now, and what hatch is/was proposing thats how the figures would look, we need to get these invalids out of office and get young people that know a little about tech put in, people like us, people that really DO care about the american people and not about the huge companies....but when will that day come? when the public is finaly edicuated...and you know they are trying to stop tha also, so its up to US to the leg work and help people to see whats really happening to our goverment, paid for by the companies we support and pay every day of our lives

United WE Stand

ok, first off, there are few that beleive in the ability of FREE digital music's possibilities, as far as changing the music landscape for the better, more than I. But I must say that this chick in the above artical is full off shit.

Example:
"Lorraine says, she wasn't knowingly trading anything and as far as the downloading was concerned, feels misleading advertising and lack of a clear disclaimer on the part of the p2p company contributed.

"I honestly didn't know about the possible repercussions," she says."

& as far as HER total goes:

"I downloaded 108, to be exact"

"108"? how the fuck does she know 108 are her's and the other 1592 are her friends songs?
And as far as her "I'm just some dumb fucking blonde" defence about not knowing about the 'possible repercussions' of downloading mp3's ... well, that's just a dumb fucking blonde trying to get us to pay for her fines instead of us donating to someone that at least has the balls to say "I downloaded, now I need help from all you fellow P2P members."

This bitch is one of the few that deserve to pay everything on her own!

Well, if other people user her computer, she probably would know what songs she downloaded. Counting them probably isn't that difficult.

And Kspooch, not every p2p user is tech savy enough to know how to properly use a computer and figure things out. When I was in high school, I was always hearing people say "All I know how to do with my computer is go online, do email, and download songs!".

Get off your high and mighty horse, asshat.

I'm not rich but I am smart. There are two intelligent things to check for now. 1st see if there was a privacy statement you agreed to. Most generally when using these p2p you sign (click) a agreement that states they don't give out your ISP or other personal info. 2ndly if they are going directly to your ISP provider (which they probably did) to get your account info, then your ISP provider can be sued accordingly to pay your lawsuit from them. If neither of these work for ya do what i'm gonna do if they sue me... TELL THEM FUCK OFF AS LOUD AND AS PROUD AS YOU CAN. AND deystroy your machine (including hard drive and ram), that is what i'm doing if they sue me. Much cheaper for a new CPU then 150,000 a song. THese RIAA bastards aren't smart enough to sue me.

HEY What ever happened to the EFF and thier supposed help? Seems to me they are all talk and no action. Haven't heard of NOE case they have taken. Seems alot of hot air going on around the world.

What ever happened to the EFF and thier supposed help

If no one stands up, then they can do nothing.

THe only thing to fear is fear it self.

the other day in mcdonalds my kid wanted some fries, i told him that i would share some of mine with him...he came back and ask what if mcdonalds try to sue you for sharing fries

i busted out laughing and told him to be quite and dont give them any ideas

screw the riaa its a dam file a bunch of 0's and 1's
screw them enough said

I sent in 5 bucks for the cause. Your freedom and privacy are worth your life!
There is a lot more stake here than a few songs my friends. Time to take a stand for the people of the internet or just turn it off. If someone is peeping in your window or listening at the wall what good is the net? Just an easy way to keep track of everyone’s activities. If the government is so worried about copyrights how about your human rights. Why doesn’t the government do something about data miner cookies and spy ware. Next it will be illegal to give a good book to a friend or donate it to the library.

Anyone here from New Orleans? I think it is time for a voodoo curse on these scumbag Ruthless-Insidious-Arrogant-A$$holes!

i would be held in contempt of court the day i had to appear, cause i would come out of my seat and decappitate one of those RIAA lawyers with some sort of ink pen, or pencil, then I would proceed to piss down his throat, if I couldn't fight legally i'll sure as hell fight illegally.

I have the constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness, and if the songs of today are over rated and over priced, I have the right to pursue other methods of obtaining the goods that i need in order to make the things around me ensure my happiness and fuctionality.

I wonder if anyone will plead insanity and compulsive download disorder.

or if anyone will blame it on that sig that says "Remember This: The Faster you download, the bigger your penis is"

just say that the sig manipulated you into download music.

let us fight the good fight and not resort to their types of tatics!

United WE Stand

What the RIAA is doing is very disturbing to me. I myself use KaZaA and have about 270 files, a fraction of them audio, and a fraction of that is songs from CDs (some are just theme songs etc). If they sued me I don't know what I'd do. Believe me, I LOVE KaZaA, and I wouldn't want it to go anywhere, but really, if the RIAA was going to do SOMETHING, wouldn't they shut down KaZaA instead of suing innocent people who most likely can't afford it? Isn't that what happened to us when we used Napster? Well if I have somethin wrong don't yell @ me I'm not that educated on this subject. I'm just wondering.

-A 14 year old guy from Illinois

If i was her i would deny it all surely they would have to have proof to back this up she was trading files?
id tell the RIAA to fuck off you cant get blood out of a stone

This is terrorism, pure and simple. Terrifying people and taking their money is supposed to make them go out and buy more CD's? I saw that Kazaa had over 4 million online today at one point...and the media is still sticking to the story that P2P is "way" down?

FAbRiCaTeDLiE they cant touch Kazaa because its on the other side of the world basically they dont have no jurisdiction over so they pick on those that cant fight back

ohhh i see. well i dont think i have to worry about being sued.