The RIAA's sue 'em all campaign has resulted in a 22% drop in file sharing, but at the same time, CD sales have plummeted by 9.4% and, "Specifically, curtailing file trading may not improve CD sales, but instead may accelerate their decline," US financial analyst Phil Leigh says.

The prepackaged CD format has "seen its best days," he states. "The transformation of recorded music sales from physical distribution to Internet distribution is inevitable."

Leigh, a Raymond James and Associates vp, is quoted in Britain's Macworld. The magazine doesn't say where Leigh's figures come from, and at the time of writing, there was nothing on the RJA site breaking it down.

But, "The initial data is [sic] not encouraging for the labels as it suggests that the fundamental premise underlying their deterrence strategy is flawed," Leigh says.

What to do?

The labels should, "continue their steps in the direction of friendly consumer-use licensing terms for their content to the legitimate Internet music distributors," he says and, adds Macworld, he, "predicts that once the labels enjoy profits from the new medium, then movie studios will be 'right behind them', predicting a second wave of legal distribution services."

LOL..and to the mass media, this will only be because of file sharing because they refuse to admit there is a boycott on!
~code

This is slightly OT for this thread, but I wanted to open this subject for folks to chime in on and lemme hear your opinions, because I think it is kind of important.

As most of you know that have visited congress.org, one of the options we have is that of proposing a law.
I think we need to propose a law, something like the DIGITAL CONSUMER'S ACT (no M in it) or DCA. I am going to tinker around with writing one if it is something other people feel they would feel comfortable with. Now, before anyone says anything about the DMCA, I have already thought of that, and incorporated in this proposal, would be the evisceration of any and all parts of the DMCA that restrict non-commercial, home use of electronic media.

I see this as a proactive step, and it will show the congress that we DO have an alternative proposal to just one after another bill by the fat cats, that tries to strip us of all rights to using our own computers and our own files.

I would appreciate input, because drafting a bill takes some time and energy, and I don't want to go galumphing down that trail if it leads nowhere.

Thanks in advance for your attention, thoughts, and input.

I remain...
~code

Good it serves them right. I just did some math caculations, I read somewhere that the record industry claims they lose $300 million/year to online piracy. The world population is about 6,314,426,225 people and Us population is about 291,921,990 people. The richest 1 percent in America owns 40% of wealth. The richest 10 percent own 80, The remaining 90 percent own 20.

Now lets look at this 300 million. If divided up equally of the richest one percent its about $102.77/person. if divided equally of the richest 10 percent you would have about $10.28/person. The lower 90% $1.14 per person. $1.03 for every us citizen and a nickel for everyone in the world.
If the lower 90% spent $1.14 less a day think about what we could do to big coperations.

Bill gates has enough money to give each us citizen 178 bucks or everyone in the world $8.24.

Well....might the RIAA have enough of their head out of their butts to realize there is a corelation or will they find something else to blame it on?
It's just common sense. Sue your customers, lose your customers.

Your a good man Code, I wouldnt be able to write a bill like that I'm not the great with the law so I dont know how good my input would be, but I will support you.

I'm not good with the law but I'm good with math ... going back to what I said if every American in the lower 90 percent spent a $1.14 less per day it would add up to $109,500,000,000.00/yr.
Seriously it doesnt have to be $1.14 everday if you can cut 1 item out a week that cost $8 it would have the same effect you could even cut one item out per month that cost 35, Think about it.

miniguinea, thanks for the input and support my friend. I probably will need your math skills along the line
...and for everyone else, lemme hear your opinions as well!

PS..good point on that calculation!
I suggest cutting that money from any spending on RIAA associated products
~code

Well, we've said it all along. Stop buying AND sharing. Hit them where it hurts.

As long as the numbers keep dropping, I don't care a fig what the RIAA chooses to blame it on. They can say whatever they darn well please, but the declining numbers in their coffers says it all.

We all know they will never admit that a boycott is going on, much less having an effect. When file sharing AND buying are both going down, they have to spin it some other way.

Screw 'em all. Man the boycott! Full speed ahead!

I will support you also code i have no real usefull skills but you do have the skills and the backing from most the posters we need a way to fight them on thair own truff and that would be the best way the only problum i see with it is we will need some one lobbying congress person to person we need to take this fight to DC if we plane on winning we must address congress we need a repasentive and we need a plane on getting are foot in the door we need some one to chain thair self to a public land mark to get any one to lisson we need to march on DC we need flyers and more support from the indapendents artest maby some of them talking about the boy-cott well i have only posted on a few other posts and this is the friest time i posted on a artacal that just got in and sorry about my spelling it's not my strongest sute

borrow your freinds cds and rip those. . I actually have an idea that would work for Artist to get money, They should put all of there music on there website offer a couple songs for free. To get the rest the User can pay $5/year that would go directly to the artist and in return they would have access to all the bands music, including live recordings, Demos. They can put demos online and ask for input on the songs. The musician would get the money not the record label. The more music they put on the better value the consumer gets and at the same time the better sales their site would get becuase more and more people would purchase as the quanity of mp3s increased.

o yea bye the way let the RIAA A$$ brun today marks a grate day the friest time P2P had declined and so has thair sales

BOY-COTT-INVADE-DC-WE-HAVE-ALREADY-WON WE-JUST-HAVE-TO-LET-THE-RIAA-KNOW-THIS-MAN

koemoejoe- thank you so much my friend!
And you do have special skills, every one of the dedicated posters on this board have different skills and expertise. I really appreciate what you said. If we do get a bill proposal, on congress.org, we can do blanket proposals from around the country, hoping that with what appears to be a groundswell, one senator might see the benefit in this. Particularly, anyone wanted for re-election or perhaps even a presidential candidate. 60 million sharers are lots of votes
~code

Did they think threatening people with lawsuits would send them running to record stores?

This is exactly why they need these lawsuits as a new source of income.

Has anybody heard from any of the RIAA artist on where they stand, or is it the catch 22 that has them silent?

Also I have been up early and to bed late monitoring any news on this whole issue and there has been none (except for TechTv)!. Do you think they have been told to keep their lips sealed untill something breaks in the court room? And did anybody get any feedback from Judge Judy on televised hearings?

isp-privacy,M1,AverageConsumer, do you have any feedback on my post question (post number 2 this thread)?
~code

code: Not to be negative, this made me think about the 60 million votes you are talking about. Half of that number is under age and as far as people in this country that will Vote, could be 20% of the rest. Its sad but true... Russia has a higher voter turn out..

I have got to agree with AverageConsumer, particularly the AND sharing part. I believe that somewhere in this mess the P2P sites are using the consumer (US) to get them where they want to go. Their customers are being sued and they have done NOTHING to help.

Maybe Nikki and the other P2Ps should have a Summit with the RIAA to thrash this out. But somehow I think pigs will fly first.

I know Dr. Dre and Metalica are against file sharing, Theres also a list of artist on the riaas webpage that speak against file sharing, I remember some of them being Michelle Branch, Mary J Blidge, Missy Elliot.

I read somewhere that Rage Against the Machines feelings (before they broke up) where they dont promote it but they dont have anything against it. They actually posted some free mp3s online at one point becuase the their manager told napster to ban any user who downloads their songs. The manager did this without the Band knowing and I guess Tom Morello was pissed off about it wrote an apology note on their website to their fans and provided free downloads of some songs.


I heard Bono from U2 say on VH1 a while back I'm already overpaid, overfed what can I say.
I also saw an interview with Kid Rock on Much Music and they ask him his view on napster he said with his normal cocky attitude "What do I care I'm already rich"

With the U2 thing I know some of the supeonas had U2 songs so I wonder if the band has any say at all for the RIAA going after customers who downloads their songs.

I agree azburner, but remember how close the last presidential election turned out to be? Even one tenth of that would have made the difference.
And, my proposed bill would NOT just be for filesharing. We are talking DRM issues, DMCA issues, and a lot more. This would be something that any regular citizen who uses a computer for home use, should and could get behind. I for one, am tired of people like Hollings,Conyers,Hatch, and Berman, continuing to try to sneak bills through that would make anyone sharing one file a felon and possibly bring them hard time in prison, and I am sick of bills trying to make it legal for anyone and everyone with a copyright registration, being allowed to do any kind of hacking into our boxes and wipe our drives of everything! We cannot continue lying down like passive victims and let them shooting til they get on bullet (bill) through, and which is a direct assault on our personal freedoms and constitutional rights!

I believe that this is a needed step, and I do appreciate what you said az.
I agree we have an uphill battle.
~code

YES ! I think they have Awaken the gaint (American consummer) and there sales will continue to fall unless they make a drastic turn and come to their sense! BOYCOTTS ARE EFFECTIVE!

Its not to late for them though! They could turn this whole thing around and gain public support if they would stop this nonsense and realize they have to work with the customer!

Maybe this new CEO will realize this and make so much needed changes! OK I know I will get backlash for saying this, but at ONE time the music industry was good! They contributed to spreading the music, creating jobs, making people rich & famous and producing music, so we could enjoy! and I give them credit for that! But it is like evrything else that gets to powerful and out of control! Its time for a change and it will come ! iam a peacemaker too! I would like to see a settlement where everybody is happy! I pray for it!

I'm sorry CODE YES man go for it! You have the knowledge! and use your talents! RIGHT?........you have my support in prayer BRO!

Thank you my friend, in these troubled times, we especially need that now my friend.

~code

I would beg to differ that filesharing is down, actually the KAZAA numbers are back up, so that 22 percent ain't right.

CODE......the way I see it......everything requires a sacrafice! We are loosing freedoms left & right in this country.....a chip here a chip there but they are chipping away slowly through the legal systems and soon we will be wondering WHAT HAPPENED! It will take people like you and others to start to challenge the system through the legal end as you say writting a bill! And as far as TINKERING.....Henry Ford was a TINKER"ER

Eventually the RIAA will indeed have a an absolute hold on Digital Recording Distribution. With the time and resources they possess it's a matter of time only. Boycotts historically do not achieve results. So,what does achieve results? Simple, intuition, adaptation and implementation. With that said, the focus should not be on fighting or boycotts of this entity rather the aim shall be the next platform of file sharing...

Until the next inovation of sharing is created/discovered, I will happily take my chances (last time I checked 50,000 to 1) on the Riaa looking for me. In a sea of sixty million swappers, do you really think there gonna get ya? And if they did, they could get in line with rest the corporate enitites I owe money to and piss up a tree.

I appreciate and enjoy this website! Thanks!

Directive, take whatever spin we can get. I'm not saying we need to fudge the numbers, but if the media want to report it that way, who are we to stand in the way of public education?

Code, go for it. I trust your skills, and I'd be more than willing to read any rough draft you come up with.

We need the sympathetic ear of a few congress members.

The RIAA made the mistake of coming out into the light. Soon, a lot of people will be looking closely at them, and they won't like what they see. Cockroaches need darkness to thrive.

Thanks Average, I shall start to look at what other Digital Consumer Rights Acts or Digital Consumer Protection Acts, or similarly named legislation is in force, so that when I style the short title of the act, I can name it so that there will be no confusion with previous bills,acts, proposals,etc.
I found this so far:
http://www.house.gov/boucher/docs/dmcrasec.htm
Ironically, most things with "digital" and "rights" are those horrible things meant to strip us of our rights and criminalize us all.
More l8er
~code

What we've all said before has now been proven.

Don't I look smart to Senator Hatch, whom I proposed the idea to. The claim that p2p hurts sales is baseless. It seems that the slump in sales corresponded nicely with the slumping economy (& everyone else's decline in sales). They found their scape goat and are trying to kill it. Turns out it was a big chunk of their life force. Sucks for them. Who knew?

Sorry for the second post. Ask Martin Luther King and Gandhi about boycotts, if you don't think there is any history to show how effective they can be.

I don't equate this with their efforts, but you get the point.

As for safety, it's a crap shoot. I don't run any p2p progs, nor do I have MP3 files on my drives, but I have been repeatedly and significantly scanned on gnutella ports lately. Let 'em look, it must get awfully boring.

They're out there, looking. The best thing to do with RIAA music:
we said it before, we say it again, don't buy it, don't download it, don't use it.

Crank up the boycott.

RIP>>>>>>>>>I disagree on BOYCOTTS not having and effect! The problem is it takes time & patience.....and not to many have that today! Kmart lost to Wal-mart beause because of two reasons! 1) BOYCOTTS which started a few years back and 2) NOT HEARING THE CUSTOMER! so you see my friend they do work.....and they do have an effect. This site would not be here for you to make a comment If people did'nt think it would be effective! And your point about being LUCKY not to be choosen! I want the freedom of being able to download without wondering EVERYDAY if im choosen for there execution! And I'm not that lucky!

The sales continue to fall I knew the sue 'em all campaign would be damageing for both sides.

*spins chair*
*Dances round room*
*Steps on cup of hot tea*

The one thing I have learned with big organizations is that the only way they admit that they have made a mistake is if made to by a judge. In this country admitting a mistake is a sign of weakness.

Cary has promised the likes of Sony, BMG, etc that by suing their customers their sales will go back to where they were. Those companies will probably let this go on for 6 months to a year in hopes of a payoff. If they get it, BMG and Sony will approve and they will continue suing. If not, they will finish off the suits and move to legislation.

What I am saying here is that the likes of GE, Sony, BMG, etc, hold Cary's reins. When they say jump, the RIAA says how high.

Two of the big 5 members of the RIAA are conglomorates. That means that their business is not just entertainment, maybe letters to the CEO's and their boards of Sony and GE may have an effect on this mess. Cause right now no one is budging.

I am of course all in favor of a new act repealling as much of the DMCA as possible. There are other bills in the works intent of repealing parts of the DMCA and or Patriot Act. I have taken the time to congratulate the authors, and cosponsors of several of these, (hr 1066, "The BALANCE Act", and hr 1157, "The Freedom to Read Act", to name a couple important ones). I will be as much help as I can, but this will take A LOT of work, and with a hugh amount of qualified help a good projected "deadline" might be one year.

On the subject of the post, I'm sitting here chuckling. I have faith that those numbers are a pretty good start. But besides CD sales as a measure of the RIAA, I wonder how they are doing as a whole. I have the suspicion that many forms of there income a falling off a cliff.

Code. I witya,bro! Have you tried sites like MoveOn.org, or EFF..or ACLU..they would have law experts that would advise you on the proper language..seems you have a good handle on that anyway. Also, they might have an insider in Washington to point to which congressperson could refine/co-introduce/support. Also, plug in elements of fair use, non-profit sharing as an element of free speech...just a thought.

I know that much of this board will not agree with me here, as I'm sure that some will. But I intend to boycott the members of the RIAA until they are replaced by a better system or monitored for every stinking dime they are entrusted for the purpose of the amplification of art. And at the very least, I will boycott them until they have no discernable control over government greater than the influence of the Librians Association of America.

azburner..so what if the votes are few..mo' better. Look how the conservative element has corralled the vote through organization..look how the unions used to dominate through organization..it is always hard do do the democracy thing if you really think about it. Money interest in this country have always enjoyed an advantage..So what? We got energy here and heart and determination to see this through. That is what gives me hope to see the intelligence of the posters here..so gather all your friends into street teams that get people aware of your cause, registered and ready to VOTE THE @$$HOLES OUT!!!

ARE YOU REGISTERED AND READY?

AY-MEN,Hermit!! Dont buy, dont download, dont use, as Average says.
T-Shirt Slogan: BE A CRIMINAL! BUY RIAA MUSIC!

CodeWarrior,

I think you would do us all a great favor and service to take this on. I don't understand the law that much so I all behind you 100% CodeWarrior. I think you are great for thinking about doing it. Keep up the great work you are doing.

Send a protest letter to Sony President Kunitake Ando at : http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/Support/Feedback/Select/other.html
It is the Japan site, the american site is useless.

Send a protest letter to Jeffrey R. Immelt Chairman of the Board and CEO, General Electric Company about Vivendi Universal at:

https://www.ge.com/ge/feedback.htm

Make sure you say that the letter is personal and confidential in the beginning. Also, be nice, otherwise they will quit reading it.

Hey, Code..........I'm interested, I have the time to burn on it, and I'm in the music biz. Rather than hash it out here, though, would you mind communicating via email or messenger? You can reach me at heffe@pipeline.com or fussnfeathers@yahoo.com (ISP's having problems, so probably best to mail both). You're absolutely correct in thinking the music industry needs a consumer law, and alot of lobbying to get the old farts to change with the times.......heh.......same as it was 50 years ago with the Beatles. And with the anniversary of MLK's speech, it's kinda cool to think that we, represented here, could very well be the Rosa Parks of the tech generation.

Anyway, drop me a line, I'm not a legal whiz, but I know the ins and outs of the industry, and have enough contacts and experience that it may help. It'd be my pleasure.

Interesting.....

During the three day period of Feb 28- March 2, some of the leading industry executives and visionaries are gathering together for one of the most productive events dedicated to helping both artist and industry secure the promotion, access and contacts they truly need to succeed.

Held at Le Bar Bat (311 West 57th Street, the former home of Media Sound Studios) The Summit is about creating new possibilities and opportunity by bringing together industry leaders and artists who are committed to both artistic integrity and commercial success.

Considered one of the most productive and pro-active events in the entertainment industry, it's all there... Artists. Managers. Producers. Directors. Filmmakers. Media. New Media. Agents. Music Supervisors. Everything you need to build your career effectively and head in the most productive direction.

Our previous shows have led to record contracts, publishing deals, management deals, music placements in motion pictures and television exposure for many of our attendees.

Some of the numerous participants and participating companies include: SONY Music, EMI Music Publishing, Music Choice, AFTRA, The Recording Artists Coalition, Bowienet, Kayos Productions, ASCAP, Disc Makers, Everfine Records, The Indie Contact Bible, NARAS, Indie Vision Magazine, Lightstone Entertainment, Universal Records, Inside Sessions, Hank Shocklee Productions, Bob Ezrin Productions, Gen Art Film Festival, Jive Records, Actor Fest, NY Castings, Center for Communication and hundreds more.

-------------------------------------Seems to me even the so called "Indies"
are rubbing hineys with the big boys. For instance Everfine Records a CDBABY number one seller, may have some big industry ties....Maybe not , who knows....? By boycott ,the rush to throw our money at indie labels may prove to be a traunch for Sony and he lkes. Just a thought.....

Jazzmary: I am registered and I do vote .I tell friends what is going on here,and send them to this web site.plus I write to our leaders! I support code in drafting a bill,this is a good start.So yes I'm doing what I can Jazz..

Thanks for the valuable input and support to everyone. Since it seems most folks are cool with this, I will get to work on this during the Larbor day weekend, and hope to have some of it written...there are lots of things I have to include on this, and the language has to be technical enough, so this isn't something I will knocking out in a day or so, nor should it be, but I will do my best.

Heffie-brother, I will definitely e-mail you, I have some business to take care of today (folks double billing me on things), but I will e-mail you this evening if that is cool, and thank you so much for your help in advance.
Jazzmary,azburner,isp-privacy,heffie,surfside6,gilbd,miniguinea, AverageConsumer,theHERMlT,goldenpi, TheSherminator...you guys are the ones that REALLY ROCK, not the RIAA puppets!
I'll be gone for a bit, but will be back this evening. Keep on Rockin' and Boycottin'
~code

I know this is slightly off this topic, however "ON" topic it may actually be, and I apologize to boycott-riaa.com is they disapprove of this message.

I am simply trying to let people know of two sites that are in the works:

theriaafreakinsucks.com (and)
ihatetheriaa.com

I do not have these sites planned to be two totally different sites, but have the domains as one of the many features will be free e-mail accounts that will allow you to express your concern over the ongoing and recent events.

I am looking for ANY and ALL available help for these sites, whether it be news gathering, a street team, or simply people to moderate and start discussions in the forums. All interested parties can e-mail me at scubayates@hotmail.com.

The best part, I feel, about this addition to the online stand against the RIAA is the fact that I have chosen to equally distribute 100% of the profits from the site to both the EFF and boycott-riaa.com.

This site will in no way try to oppose or steal the popularity of boycott-riaa.com, which was a primary factor in my decision to donate 50% of the profits to this site.

Thank you for your time.

I predict the RIAA will blame the drop in sales on the war on terror. With all our service men and women in the desert, they can no longer visit record stores.

It is due to a war on terror. The war against the RIAA terrorist regime.

Ripandburn.........there's your issue. Of course, the indie bands are trying to get a contract, or skirt the edges enough to make some money. I mean, let's face it, recording costs. Production, advertisement, distribution costs. I don't know of a single musician, artist, writer, whatever, that wouldn't LOVE to spend their days doing what they love most. But, alot of new guys (mostly indie bands, but no offense) haven't been down the road, and the lure of the cash seems good.

That convention is like any other. 100% are interested, but only 20% actually buys. Also, alot of the industry folks are there simply because they must be.......if they're not, they may miss some changes that may or may NOT be good for you and I.

Also factor in that ASCAP, NARAS, and Indie Vision don't just represent those who want to stay Indie, but also represent those who want to go major label, so they have a responsibility to their clients to explore all resources, and judge for themselves if it's a good idea for the client or not.

Trust me, I'm totally against the current industry trend, but as a musician, and now as an employee of a rather large music store, I'll have to bump booty with folks I don't necessarily agree with, but the hopeful end result is that we'll all agree with each other, and a change can be made. I think we all realize that we as individuals CAN'T make a change on our own, we need to spend time, effort........."Blood Sweat and Tears"........to work with the opposition, and make a better plan for everybody. Certainly doesn't mean I agree with who I associate with, but it's a necessary evil.

CodeWarrior, I agree and support you 100% on this endeavor. If there is something you need me to do, just call for it and if it’s within my ability, it’s yours! Anything that you need I think we can find here. I’ve seen some outstanding examples of research and I think you’ll find a great talent pool to assist you. But I see you becoming the leader of this grassroots movement and we need to know what you want us to do in order to assist you.

But I do have a couple of reservations on using this message board to organize it because of the lack of features and possible noise level that exists on this highly emotional site. A project like this should be taken on objectively and we can’t let emotions cloud the real goal. I’m not trying to slight this site or its membership but its whole theme of the riaa boycott could be distractive to the job we are trying to accomplish. I’m sure we have some members that can suggest something for a solution on this and if not, I have a few favors I can call in from web hosts, if need be.

In any case it might be wise to at least start a new thread in one of the forums for the DCA.

"continue their steps in the direction of friendly consumer-use licensing terms for their content to the legitimate Internet music distributors,"

Continue? They haven't made any note worthy effort to begin with how can they continue. As for friendly consumer-use I can hear Carry "everything you own and your soul are mine" Sherman laughing right now.

I should also point out something, not aimed at anybody, but aimed at us all.

We all get worked up over the RIAA's accusation of "piracy". It's been pointed out that Section 18 of the USC code (or whatever) defines piracy as a high seas crime. There's also a definition of software piracy, which is rampant in China and Russia at the moment.....the copying, packaging, representing, and selling of a product as the real thing. Heh, I live near enough to New York we get Rolex's that aren't worth 10 bucks in mint condition.

There's a quote at the beginning of a Living Colour song, "Leave It Alone".......

"We must never take these words to serieously. Words are very important, but if we take them to seriously, we destroy everything".

Also, in the spirit of Shakespeare...

"methinks he doth protest too much".

It's just a word, and the definition varies widely from person to person. Legalese can confuse the best laywer out there, so rather than focus on the words themselves, focus on the ideals behind the words. This way, we can all be on the same page, and continue to work toward something good for us.

We now return you to your original programming. P

Good idea about the law creation Code.

If you can, also try to attach a clause that would forbid our government from propping up the RIAA with our tax money when the boycott begins to choke them out.

The last thing I want is for them to bypass our boycott and get our money anyway from the general tax fund.

I probably gave them an idea but they are so diabolical they probably would have already thought out that contengincy without my mentioning it here.

We all know they troll these posts. Know thy enemy.

CriticalError, if I may.......I have a website, dedicated to musicians who also happen to be file sharers. I hope some input can be found there as well, it's one of the reasons I started it, and I'm more than willing to use it to further this goal.

My only concern is bandwidth, but I think this will be well within my limits, so it's offered.

http://www.audioeditplus.com

I have an idea tor a "meeting place", I'll discuss it with Code when he emails. Also something I can provide, under the radar, so to speak.

HEFFIE, hats off, thanks for another way of looking at it...

Well I am off to the races gentleman,,, I am gonna burn 250 cd's this weekend and distribte the cd's for free in front of Bestbuy.........Any suggestions as to what artist?

LOL RIP!

What really makes me mad about all these lawsuits - more than anything else - is the fact that the RIAA is trying to act like they're doing all of this for the good of the musicians we're supposedly cheating, when we all know that the only thing they care about are their own financial interests.

I don't know specifics, but I honestly don't think that any musician has become rich solely on CD sales alone. I could be wrong, but I always believed that musicians make most of their money doing tours (and charging ridiculous prices for them, too).

The fact that the RIAA would attack "ordinary" people such as myself, who live on a limited income, and charge us upwards of $150,000 PER SONG that we've downloaded is just insane. Why are we allowing this to happen? Musicians are sickeningly overpaid. They make more in a year than most of us will ever see in our entire lives. We all know this, but we continue to kiss their butts and buy their merchandise and CDs. The idea that I could be sued for millions of dollars, when I barely have enough money to pay my rent, just fills me with rage.

Until we are no longer presented with crap music that is made by cookie-cutter crap musicians (a-la Good Charlotte), I won't buy any CDs. I listen to the ones I already own, and that's it.

in the words of Shakespere, "Kill all the lawyers".

In both text and context, how far are we willing to venture into these realms. How closely are we willing to skirt the lines of what exist? Or are we willing to lay down a new track, and expect that it will be transversed?

CodeWarrior:

I support you 100% and I'll do what I can to help. I have a close friend who's a lawyer and she'll help if I ask her to. If you need to contact me personally, just let me know and we'll arrange a way.

BTW, I think it's great that their sales are suffering. Now might be a great time to purchase an few indi CDs for christmas presents so to show it's not music cd but just the riaa music that is loosing sales.

heffie, grand and welcome idea. I just signed up so you have my email.

the hermit, lets spare one or two untill this project is over
but like they say, the difference between a lawyer and a skunk in the middle of the road is that reasonable people will swerve to avoid the skunk.

Just dropped by the house long enough in between missions..lol...to check what's up. IFeelFree...thank you so much for what you said. I sincerely appreciate your support and everyone, because, ultimately, this is not my fight or your fight alone, we are in this together, and an attack on the one, is an attack on the many.
Will get to work on this this p.m.
and heffie, sent you an e-mail earlier, I think one address bounced back, but you should have the other.
OK...see ya l8er...
Keeping up the good fight...
~code

Boycott is not effective ?

Ask Thailand about that - at one time most of their countries income came from something so awful I won't even mention it here.

Our response ? DON'T BUY THAI - and we strangled them economically, till they started cleaning their act up.

Things have improved over there, and most folks let off on the pressure, which is fine by me, but I continue to hold a grudge, given that I consider their actions unforgivable.

Boycotts often do not work, true - but sometimes they do, too.

-user

Ahh.. I was out for the morning and all this happened. It should come without saying that I'm behind such an act code. I have writing skills, but I'm still young and I can tell through your writing you have considerably more experience and I have confidence you could properly construct such a bill. Good luck with it.

Suikio

Ripandburn Let us know how that works for you at Best Buy. You may want to hand out a flyer to people also. Tell them about the boycott and give them some information about the RIAA. You could handout copies of Metallicas new CD, after listening to that people may Never buy another CD again. Good Luck.

Critical, that's a good point, and I hadn't thought about that to be honest. This is gonna take some time for me. I think writing up a bill proposal is gonna be harder than just writing up briefs,discovery requests, motions to compel...that's easy. So, for the interi, those wishing to give me a shout about ideas or whatever, e-mail me at :

codewarrior_wins@hotmail.com

Suikio-thanks, and everyone thanks!

There is a site called digitalconsumer.org,
(http://digitalconsumer.org/bill.html) that I discovered had a similar idea, but their bill is more like a wishlist, certainly not in proper format for a bill, nor in a lot of detail on the technical aspects.
Their bill is :
1. Users have the right to "time-shift" content that they have legally acquired.
This gives you the right to record video or audio for later viewing or listening. For example, you can use a VCR to record a TV show and play it back later.
2. Users have the right to "space-shift" content that they have legally acquired.
This gives you the right to use your content in different places (as long as each use is personal and non-commercial). For example, you can copy a CD to a portable music player so that you can listen to the songs while you're jogging.
3. Users have the right to make backup copies of their content.
This gives you the right to make archival copies to be used in the event that your original copies are destroyed.
4. Users have the right to use legally acquired content on the platform of their choice.
This gives you the right to listen to music on your Rio, to watch TV on your iMac, and to view DVDs on your Linux computer.
5. Users have the right to translate legally acquired content into comparable formats.
This gives you the right to modify content in order to make it more usable. For example, a blind person can modify an electronic book so that the content can be read out loud.
6. Users have the right to use technology in order to achieve the rights previously mentioned.
This last right guarantees your ability to exercise your other rights. Certain recent copyright laws have paradoxical loopholes that claim to grant certain rights but then criminalize all technologies that could allow you to exercise those rights. In contrast, this Bill of Rights states that no technological barriers can deprive you of your other fair use rights. "
Their site claims 50,000 members.
Anyway, back to research.
~code

CodeWarrior:

I'll be glad to help if I can. We all appreciate your efforts so much. It sounds like the digitalconsumer.org bill might be a reasonable place to start with regard to drafting our own bill. Of course, the wording would have to be greatly changed and a lot of technical details would have to be added. But I like the ideas in it.

Code: I am behind you 100%. I have alot of respect for people that have a passion for helping others and trying to right the wrongs that others (RIAA) are creating. That not only goes out to Code but the rest of the intelligent people that post on this site.

It seems everytime I post my gnutella port is scanned. What I do is save my log and turn them in.

I just can't stand hypocrites like those at the RIAA. They are the very definition of the Pot calling the Kettle black. Even though the kettle (We the consumers) are not thieves.

Code: I feel the best thing I can do to help you is to pray that the Lord give you the wisdom & the words to write this new proposed law that will benefit all of us. You put alot of time and effort into this cause and the Lord is watching and is pleased.

Everyone have a safe Labor Day weekend.

The only thing evil needs to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything.

God Bless Brotherws & Sisters
Peace

yeah rip.... burn our songs on those CD's http://kwiver.dmusic.com

John316 :
Thank you my friend. I am working on the proposal right now and took a break to come see what is happening. I welcome and appreciate your prayers and all the kind words you send. I hope you have a happy , safe, and blessed weekend.

~code

I think there should be a new name for this RIAA-MPAA-IFPI axis of evil which sanctions such blatant violations of human rights in the name of "curbing piracy":

The Imperial Copyright Junta.

W-B
agreed

for the more technically minded, this is one way that things like copyright info, and original source info, can be embedded in audio and picture files/
Watermarking :
http://www.fxpal.com/people/foote/papers/watermark.pdf
~code

Like to see the RIAA's spin on this!

Man, these guys are really painting themselves into a corner, and looking really silly while doing it!

CodeWarrior:

Interesting article. The time base modulation technique does allow them to watermark files in a way that is not easily detected or removed. However, with millions of people ripping and sharing files it seems that the chance of getting a watermarked file ought to be low. Also, if they're freely distributing watermarked copyrighted material on P2P networks (to "contaminate" the pool of files) doesn't that compromise their assertion that we're "stealing" files. It's like handing out your possessions to people on the street and then having them all arrested for theft.

I can't say about the freely distributing deal. They might say that these were from known groups and that users should know they are copyrighted. The thing about watermarked files, is that there are various services which will track watermarked files via bots. For example, if you used Photoshop and created a cool pic, and watermarked it and put it on your website, if people download it and put it on their site, these bots will track them to your site (and every other site that uses them) and inform the copyright holder of your e-mail (which can usually be harvested from websites you maintain) and you get a nasty little C&D letter.
I dunno if they are going to use it, but I think they are using everything they can to track files and identify alleged infringers. So, just another thing to be aware of.
BTW, am working on the bill...
lol..with me, things can get quite specific and technical, so it's taking some time.
Have a great labor day weekend!

~code

lol..i got it mixed up, but basically, if someone takes a copyright pic from your site, and puts it on theirs, the bots track the pics down, note where they are, and let the owner know for further prosecution of their "rights"
got it that time

IFeelFree: In regard to your last point, RIAA attorneys are likely to respond that their oppressive DMCA law supports them in their quest to trace offenders who are illegally sharing copyrighted material. As precedents, they may point to techniques such as currency (granted to extortioners/abductors) having a tracing feature secretly embedded in it. We have all heard of how a narcotic agent might pose as a drug dealer in the hope of catching a supplier. True, sometimes things become rather murky in the gray area of a "manufactured" crime (entrapment?) when, for example, the bait of a "bribe" is offered by an FBI agent to an official of questionable integrity; if the bait is taken, prosecution can follow. Defense attorneys will protest about rights being violated, etc. Legally, there is a lot of treading on thin ice that's been going on in the past, and incrementally so of late. Which partially explains the recent plethora of new graduates from law schools; they're going to be in demand, and they know it!

exactly, i heard that there are going to be more lawyers graduating than are already in practice. the sharks need more fishes and seals I guess.

Thanks, Code. That's an amazing number of sharks -- er, lawyers -- isn't it?
Obviously, they must be drooling with anticipation at all the potential activity that can come their way . . .

Im still amazed at the RIAA's tactics.

Sue college kids
(the bulk of their target buyers)

Sue kids and their parents
(another huge chunk of buyers)

Really the only ones left are people 30 and over.

Sorry but most people my age and over tend to buy or download less new CD's. We listen to classic rock/80's/ REAL alternative music in the 90's/ when it was about the music and the passion of performance that surpassed the lo-fi production and not the predictable glossy overproduced repetitive cliches of:
1> how men suck and women can live without us blah blah
2> how im so in love with you i give you the world
Rewind..recycle...play
3> look at my boobs and my 6-pack

Why do you think the record companies have been producing remastered old music so much over the past few years than supporting new teen pop stars?

The thing about the DCMA, like any other law, is not that the law itself is evil, or that it's badly written. It's not. But, once again slamming the lawyers, laws are easy to find loopholes in, and even easier to abuse. "Give 'em an inch, they take a mile" mentality. Applies to any law, really. Think of how many high-profile murder cases there are in which the criminal got off free, even though there was more than ample proof against him, and in many cases, even a confession. BUT, because somebody on the right side of the law skipped a piece of paperwork, or didn't follow the procedure to the last punctuation mark, the case was thrown out, and a criminal walked out a free man. Even Constitutional rights can be abused, and regularly are. Freedom of Speech doesn't mean you can say or do anything you want, or give you the right to sue or imprison somebody who says something you don't like. You have the right to say something, I have the right to call you a clueless loser, all's well with the world.

Likewise, seperation of church and state has also been badly abused. The only reason that was ever included was to prevent the government from telling you what church to worship at, or the church from dictating government policy. Think England and Europe 400 years ago. Now, however, we have grade school kids being sued for saying a prayer before lunch, we have a parent suing the Government for the Pledge of Allegiance, heck, I've even seen kindergarten classes punished and berated for putting a Nativity scene up at Christmastime. What's wrong here?

The RIAA is only the latest in a lonnnnng string of people who's only thought is "me me ME!", and the hell with the rest of the world.

Talk about loopholes.......while I was living in Vermont, a woman shoplifted $250 worth of groceries from the local supermarket. I think that was the amount, anyway. She was caught, and sent to court to answer for a felony charge, which would have put her in jail. Her lawyer, smart guy that he is (and I give him credit for thinking fast on his feet, for sure), pointed out that the store was claiming retail value for the products, and presented the court with a list of items stolen that had been on sale for far less than retail. Upshot is he got the amount stolen dropped so much, the woman got off with a misdemeanor charge and restitution.

Hee....I always liked that one.

I am a newbee here, but I am trying to read and uderstand everything you guys write about. I am not sure this is the place to talk about bigger picture, but I will try anyway. I think that whole RIAA case is a smaller part of a bigger campaign which is about to be started by corporate America and our goverment. And really, it already has started. It is going to happen in 4 steps:
Step 1. Gain control of information an content flow on the web.
Step 2. Having achieved step 1, define allowed internet content and information. In other words, impose internet censorship.
Step 3. Make people who want access pay for the internet content (fees to the internet content providers).
Step 4. Tax the internet which will provide almost unlimited money to the goverment.
Steps 3 and 4 cannot happen before steps 1 and 2 are achieved. Information control and money control is a source of economical and political power. Internet as it is now poses a grave danger to the ruling forces in the world.

FreedomFreak: I'm with YOU! I've been wanting to talk about the very subject you've brought up. Let's see if others are interested, too.

Code , my friend , I am behind you 100% . I would be honored to help you in anyway I can . Not that great with legalese , but I can bullshit with the best of them . That's what you get from being a commodities relocation specialist for 15 years . (sounds better on a resume than truck driver)

But seriously , now that I am disabled , I have some more time for projects like this . Let me now if I can possibly be of help ,
your friend and allie WABBITMAN

Wabbit, you are a super person, and I deeply appreciate you. We all have such a valuable resource, i.e. the other fine, decent, hardworking, and courageous people on this board.
You are in my prayers Wabbit. I will have you on my list of people to call on...for now, keep doing what you are doing. PS...those commodities relocation specialists keep the nation moving...when the truck don't roll, the goods don't flow!
Have a super labor day my brother.
We are going to topple Goliath.
Polishing a stone for our sling right now.

~code

FreedomFreak and grumpygeezer, you guys are right where you need to be. As newbies, you have missed many of my long rambling rants on it, but I , and many others have expressed the same idea. This board is not just about filesharing, but the broader issue of freedom, and how we are slowly but surely being robbed of that precious right. Many of us are not downloading,uploading, or buying anything from the RIAA, but we are all very much pushing the topic of digital freedom, and constitutionally protected rights. So, great minds think alike. Official welcomes all around.
~code

Thanks for the nice welcome mat, Code! We appreciate you, and these discussion boards are a great service.

Qualifyingly stated, these discussion boards ARE a great service as long as stringent rules of format aren't imposed.

They can be just as badly damaged if there are no rules of format. Ive seen people post without punctuation. Ive seen pointless posts, attention-grapers posting to every thread in the forum, spam (from ES5 mostly) and people who cant post a single sentence without swearing.

But I did say "stringent" rules of format, and isn't there an implication of a significant difference between that and "no rules of format" which you elaborated upon?

In another discussion board of this website, Thumbtack commented on how he desired the news forums to focus on the news of that very article, and that we should reserve other issues to the discussion forums.
My response back to him was basically as follows:

To: thumbtack or whoever . . .
I'm curious: how is it decided that it's preferable to impose a rather regimented structure to the webpages in the sense that discussions ought to be relegated to the forums, and posts to news articles should be restricted to that news topic--without much margin for digression?
This is not so much a criticism as it is an honest quest for information to help us better understand the basis of the rationale of adhering to a stricter structure than has been the case of late. TIA.

P.S. For my point of view, I thought that things were going reasonably well recently, allowing for the freedom of spontaneity as well as diverse opinions as the flow of the river moves us, but then, who am I to make a profound judgment like that? [suppressed chuckle]

As an addendum to the above, I would pose the following question for consideration, and I hope it doesn't escape the attention of the author(s) of this website:
Do we really want our threads to assume more of the flavor of an exclusive club, or can we be willing to tolerate occasional substandard communication and even some digression in the interest of maintaining a more inclusive base of diverse opinions?

There are executives who maintain an open-door policy to their offices, and then there are the ones who don't. Guess which ones employees prefer to work for.