The Webcaster Alliance has filed a complaint against the RIAA and the Big Five record labels alleging anti-competitive conduct.

"It's time for the RIAA to be held accountable for years of manipulating an entire industry in order to stifle the growth of independent music and control internet content and distribution channels," says Alliance president Ann Gabriel.

"And we're prepared to take it all the way to the jury," she told us, saying the WA filed in the San Francisco Federal court.

At the time of writing, the RIAA hadn't responded but, "I understand they have a statement ready," says Gabriel.

Last month the Alliance warned the RIAA it would initiate legal proceedings unless the RIAA took concrete steps to address anticompetitive conditions the WA says threaten to eliminate small commercial webcasters and injure the music market.

The RIAA's, "ruthless campaign has also had the devastating effect of destroying the hopes and dreams of thousands of independent Internet radio stations," says Gabriel.

"It's time for us to stand up to the RIAA and fight for the American consumer's freedom of choice."

The Alliance’s allegations, "arise from an alleged unlawful agreement among certain participants in the December 2002 agreement between the RIAA and certain webcasters that was allegedly intended to harm competition, which would in turn harm the distribution of independent music which competes with RIAA material," it says in a statement.

This is so very true! I was just writting a letter to "Stormin Norman"
about this very thing! IT IS hurting the independents! And not only that it has customers all confused on what they are allowed to download! Everybody I talk to is afraid to download music period! because of the fear the (RIAA) have injected through ads and the media,about downloads in general. GOOD GOING!

Finally somone is standing up to those crap heads. Hopefully this will get it through the Riaa's thick head that they shouldn't mess with us.

~DM~

right there with ya darkmaster


just waiting for the kiddies to get wind of the jane doe case...its gonna be hell to pay

This is great news, but right now, am watching 60 minutes II, showing people lining up in the snow to get food, working people. Kinda puts filesharing in perspective, but they really are all related...fat cats driving expensive cars, living in mansion, and the working man getting screwed and sued. It angers me and saddens me at the same time.
~code

I hope many many more people sue and counter-sue the RIAA. That combined with a hopefully growing boycott, will bankrupt them, or at least cause a major hurting.

code...
fits right along with capitalism. The rich get richer, while the poor get poorer. I remember watching TV in the 80's and they were showing the russians lining up to get 1 loaf of bread and 1 roll of toilet paper. Sad to say, but capitalism bears a strong resemblance to communism.

"God created man to work for his food and said that those who ate without work were thieves" -Mahatma Ghandi

I pesonally don't wish to see the RIAA hurting (unless it hurts just before they DIE)
WABBITMAN

This is the story I've known about for a few weeks, been kind of hinting at but haven't been able to talk directly about.

I've talked to Ann Gabriel quite a bit in the past month or so and she is sincerely determined to see this through to the bitter end, which is why I nominated her to be on the panel to speak up to Senator Coleman.

EFF is also going to get behind this effort in some manner and do what they can to inform the public.

This is why I've been pushing to help raise funds for the WA and right now I need to go and update my own web site to reflect this new story.

The text of the court filing is available at http://www.webcasteralliance.com/docs/WA_complaint.pdf

The battle begins.

Let's see how they like it when someone shoots back at them. Way to go, webcaster alliance!!! We are about to witness a modern David vs Goliath.

I rejoice ANY time someone sues the RIAA, and this is indeed great news, but you have to keep the pressure on for Congress to examine their alleged "non-profit" status, while they are spending big bucks lobbying politicians, in violation of the non-profit rules. Also, ask them to look into the issues of payola, monopoly of an industry, and price fixing. Remember when Gulliver was pulled down by the Lilliputians? This is the kind of thing that must be done..WA, Pac-Bell, public demands for investigations, court battles, boycott...YIPEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
...but, on a more sober note...
Hmmm...looks like things are heating up. Scanned the articles about the nycfashiongirl or whatever name...and there are so many things to talk about with this, don't know where to start.
Number one, as I understand, she claims she bought the computer with songs on it... "Nycfashiongirl's attorney told the court that his client had purchased a computer with music on it, had legally ripped her own CDs to her hard drive, and had used the Kazaa application to listen to that music. She had tried several times to prevent sharing that music with the outside world, her attorneys wrote. "
Now,it's not clear whether she is talking about those sample songs you get in a new computer, or that she bought a used computer which had tunes on it, and legally ripped her own CDs.
900 songs would be about 90 cds worth,give or take. That's a lot of ripping. If it was a used box (probably not), this raises a legal issue of making certain you really wipe a drive if you ever sell your old box. Now, at first blush, when I saw something about her saying she tried several times to block sharing, I thought, yeah, RIGHT! But, seems like I remember a virus or worm that was making the rounds a while back, that was downloadable from KaZaa . It was the W32/Kingdom-A virus. It made registry changes to enable file sharing. "Upon execution, the worm drops itself to C:\Windows\Sys32 as kingdom-hearts.exe and modifies the following registry entries

HKCU\Software\KaZaa\LocalContent\DisableShari ng

HKCU\Software\KaZaa\LocalContent\Energy
The above changes enable P2P file sharing under KaZaA and make C:\Windows\Sys32 a shareable folder
.
Thus, it is possible that that happened. The notion she was using Kazaa just to play her tunes, ok, MAYBE, but there are a lot of better MP3 players than Kazaa's.

OK, now to the meat of the matter. To be honest, I didn't dream that the RIAA was going to the level of technical analysis that they did. I thought they were just going to have the IP, the time downloaded, and copy of the copyrighted file, and the username. This deal about going through her shared folder and "but had examined the full contents of Nycfashiongirl's shared folder, looking in detail at the "metadata" attached to each file such as song name, artist, notes attached by earlier file swappers, and even at the contents of the file itself.

Some of the files exactly matched the "fingerprints," or specific digital characteristics, of songs earlier identified on the now-defunct Napster service, the RIAA said. All those factors indicated that the anonymous computer user was a "frequent and significant participant in illegal downloading and distribution of music," the group wrote.", in my humble opinion is bad news.

All this tracing files, looking at the metadata, etc., is going somewhere, and it is NOT just about this one lady.
They seem to be making a questionable lot of emphasis on this Napster connection, and apparently, looking for other usernames in the files, and trying to trace the history of the files, and apparently, who originally recorded the MP3s.

"The RIAA, the trade group for the largest record labels, said it also found other hidden evidence inside the woman's music files suggesting the songs were recorded by other people and distributed across the Internet".

And, judging by all the talk about the digital DNA, it seems BayTSP was the toadie that did the grundge work. I just think there is something Machiavellian behind all this tracing and linking crap. Not good!

If I'm being too suspicious, it's ok to say so...but my gut instincts are usually right on with this kinda stuff.
~code

http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/doe_v_RIAA-Doe_Motion_to_Intervene.pdf

filed motion to intervene from Jane Doe

~code

Actually I can see her buying a machine with kazaa and all the tunes on it, who knows the machine may have been hot for all she or we know, or she may have bought the machine from a dumb a** who didn't clear the drives and if she was using kazaa to listen to her tunes she may not know a whole lot about computers her self. So the
doubt is there and with that doubt a jury should throw it out at least in theory.
What you posted code aboutabout the history is a little scary and disturbing. I wonder if the RIAA is actually thinking of sueing everyone associated with that file, if they can actually see the history and trace it back to it's original owner, if this can be done would it not be like double jeopardy to sue some one else after you have sued the first person you caught with it??????
This DMCA HAS GOT TO GO, EVERY ONE NEEDS TO BE SURE THEY ARE A REG VOTER AND LETS CHANGE THIS LAW AND VOTE THE A**HOLES WHO PUT IT IN PLACE OUT OF OFFICE DAMNIT!!!!!!!

I know that I don't post very much mainly because my points are already made or reinforced by such great supporters like codewarrior and directive but when I do I try and bring a new thought to the arguement. Having someone analyze my files and folders, shared or not, is still an invasion of privacy. It's just like me standing over your shoulder watching everything you do on your computer. But if we have an IP range of RIAA computers... why doesn't anyone hack them to shit? It wouldn't take very much just to waltz right in to a local library and get to work on their network and computers. Has anyone? Will anyone? I mean, you can use a program such as "Angry IP" to scan and see which IPs are "alive" (active) or "dead" (offline) and what service they have. With the knowledge of activity, you'd know just what computers to fry and when to fry them... just a thought.

Please forgive me for bringing this up, But today in Alabama is just another example of how screwed up our courts of law are! Of All things removing the 10 comandments from that justice building! As if our courts didn't have more important issues to address! And its not the removal of the stone itself because they are written on our hearts. What bothers me is how powerful the courts have become to make these kinds of decisions ....to change what out forefathers built this country on. Our freedom keeps erroding away from an out of control judicial system! Just as our privacy/freedom is under attack right now with this RIAA issue!
WHEN ARE AMERICANS GOING TO STAND UP! and say enough is enough? When are our leaders going to start taking some action aganist the High courts and the men in the black robes? Congress needs to be more involved! I heard Dr. Dobson on fox live tonight saying Thomas Jefferson feared the very thing that is happening today, an out of control supreme court !

hey thats the seperation of the church and state,as a pagan thats a big victory for me

not to sound chezzy but remember the whole salem witch thing and what effect it had..even though they only burned stupid talking monkeys so its not really that big of a deal.

A lot of people have computers and realy dont know a lot about how programs work, where I go to school practically everyone has a computer. I end up helping people out at times fixing there computer. The average computer user doesnt know about adware and spyware, how you get it and how to get rid of it.

Most people have too many items start up automatically when there computer starts, I have norton start automatically thats it. just about everyone I know has real player I hate real player and everything else that company puts I refuse to put it on my computer becuase its one of those programs that tries to take over your computer, not to mention some of real's products has spyware. If I can only view the video in real audio then I dont view it, its not worth it to me.

The people the RIAA are going after are the people who really dont know what they are doing the true computer geek/hacker will outsmart them. They are fucking a lot of inocent people and I truly believe they believe they cant totally stop it but they are trying to scare the average computer person to get rid of there filesharing program to significanly reduce the amount of filesharing done online.
I really hope it bites them in the ass.
you wouldnt punish a kid who stole a candy bar to make up for the guy who robbed the safe and didnt get caught.

nothing against other eligions and all that,i don't care what god/godess you talk to..

i talk to all kinda of gods and godessess

Finally someone with POWER and MONEY to get into the ring with the RIAA, all the lawyers must be in a feeding frenzy with this.

On another note, I almost put an ax through my television, I was flipping through the channels, came to VH-1, and they had on "The Fabulous Life Of Britney Spears". Now I'm not a big Britney fan, but, considering how insanely popular she is, she must of been shared in P2P networks like a Freshman girl in a frat house. If file sharing is hurting the industry so much, how can she pay a private jet $5000.00 to fly to the east coast to get her favorite coffee? I know this isn't part of the listed topic, just needed to get that off my chest.

I agree with (isp) our leaders are failing the grade when it comes to the 10 comandments ,changes in our overtime pay,or letting the RIAA run this attack. (TO MUCH TO LIST) It is going to take the voters to send a message! Write your leaders and let them know how you feel... Still boycotting!

Britney Spears is more of a product then a musician. They sells Dolls of her and all kinds of other crap, so a kid who doesnt know any better gets the gotta have it feel and buys all of her stuff, She lip sinks her music. Granted her dancing on stage takes a lot of effort, but look at the musicians who bust there ass and finally get a record deal around age 30, They might sell 1 Million cds but they wont get shit. The record industry loves products that will grab kids. You want to know why nsync will always be #1 on MTV when they release a video, its becuase the same group of kids will call requesting the same song like 20 times in one day. When other people will request a song once and they eventually give up and never try again.

sorry I don"t want to mix church and state either and sorry If I offended....the point I'm trying to make is we are loosing our freedom of privacy with all this investigation they are heading up and I hope her defense lawyer jumps all over this issue!

those 12 year olds better not let there freind borrow their Britney Spears they might get sued for infrigement.

12 year old gets probation for lending best freind Britney Spears Doll.

miniguinea is right. Many users don't know anything about their PC or how to use it. With all the news coverage that Napster got years ago, it just drew newbies to p2p like a moth to a light. All the media coverage makes people want to try the "cool new thing to do". Especially if it's free. And now alot of innocent people are gonna get busted.


Code.. your not being "too suspicious". This is getting scary that they can trace an mp3 back to it's source. Especially all the way back to Napster.

We have to educate the uneducated about the RIAA and the other freedoms that we will surely loose.

BOYCOTT THE BASTARDS

Good point Demon. File Sharing probably got more popular by the Record company making such a big deal. Just like how Eminem sold more CDs with more protestors of his music.
As for this metatag information is it hidden I'm kind of curious on how they can trace it, does this mean that filesharing programs somehow modifies tags with information everytime someone downloads a song from you?

SlimChanz:

It's not a victory for religous freedoms. It is tearing away part of what our country was founded on. Do you disagree that it's wrong to kill someone, to steal, to commit adultry, to lie, to not honor your parents, to not be faithful in your faith. These are right and just morals to try to live by no matter what your religion.

BTW I believe that the first amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...". By putting the ten commandments up they are not making any law or prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

The one thing we have not lost yet is the freedom of speech! so far!

and Miniginne....Your right I DON"T KNOW WHAT COUNTRY I LIVE IN ANY MORE?

I have a lot of CDs from Epitaph I thought they were a sub label of a bigger label, offsprings first few cds were on epitaph, I also have like 12 Bad Religion cds. 8 or 9 of which where on Epitaph, Then they switch to a major label.

CodeWarrior:

The way I see it, the fact that the woman had the identical files on her computer as other users on the network (as determined by hash functions) may not mean much for her case. Either she ripped the files from CDs she owned (or the files were pre-existing on her used computer) and she inadvertently shared them, or she downloaded them but owns the CDs anyway (she claims). If she's not lying (or her story is consistent!), she may have a plausible argument. I believe we're allowed to make backup copies of CDs we own and whether we rip them, or download the tracks from P2P, shouldn't really matter, should it?

Now, the fact that the RIAA has been cataloguing and analyzing MP3 files for years is bizarre. Almost seems a little paranoid. I guess their reasoning is if they can show that two people have identical files, they must have shared them. Again, I ask, what if they both own the CD? Why can't one rip the tracks and share with the other? The end result is the same. I'm sure the RIAA lawyer will try to make hay out of it anyway. This whole thing is getting interesting...

Way to go isp-privacy!!! I'm with you 100% on the commandments issue. The people entering that courthouse were not viewing a religious artifact, but a statement of law.

The foundation of our legal systems in the Western world was laid out on that stone for all who enter to see. Again Church and state in the United States are separated not to keep the Church out of the State, but to keep the State from interferring with the Church. pepe

if two different people ripped the same cd using the same ripper with all the settings exactly the same wouldnt that create identical tags and copies?

I feel displaying the 10 commandments is an expression of free speech. If a Judge used the bible to make a ruling then that would be a violation of church and state.

HI! PEPE how are you ?

They can't change what you believe can they ole buddy?

I see you argument, it is a tough call. I just dont want to see people trying to have religous books or information removed from public libraries becuase it violates church and state laws. I'm worried about what people are going to try to do next.

Looks like Slim's "justice for all" comments are getting wiped out by the moderator.

So much for discourse!

OK i'm sorry I opened a can of worms.....lets get back on track I respect everyone here for what they believe. And we should stay united for the cause we are fighting for on this RIAA issue. BOYCOTT THEM TO DEATH!

Good, because all he wants to do is pit one aganist another !

IM posting this here in hopes taht someone in charge will read it
Drop me a line at vgtbob@yahoo.com


Boycott-Riaa,
While I think your cause is quite a worthy one, I don't think it's being effective in the least. People in general don't react while they are comfortable, and up to now EVERYONE has been comfortable. I would have heard nothing of this campaign had I not been worried about downloading music. A boycott isn't enough. We need legal action. We need evidence of a monopoly. The people won't do anything on there own, and they most certainly won't do anything while they're comfortable.
Up to this point it seems to me that this campaign has done little to know good, and to be quite honest I am worried sick over the outcome. But unless there's a miracle or the cost of advertising goes down and we make a name for ourselves, It's not going to go anywhere.
Around here there was NO news coverage because the people in charge of setting up the picketing didn't do anything. No emails were sent, no press was called. There was No organization.
I'm sorry if I sound like im picking this organization apart, but we have no publicity.
The people need to know we're here, and we need to press for more legal action against the RIAA. We need to contact those who have been subpeanad and start a class action suite. You talk of terrorism, of conspiracy against the american people, yet why haven't you called in the cavalery?
We need to fight back. The passive aggressiveness of this campaign isn't working. It's time to play the same game the RIAA is playing. It's time to get political.
Sincerly,
Adam Leonard
Schaumburg Illinios

The Fact is that MP3's are not an Orginal Copy whatsoever, the Quality is far lower than CD Quality, yet these BrainWashing Manipulating RIAA Tyrants compare this with Shoplifting a CD!!!

Not everyone will Buy this kind of Tactics they use.

Know this Folks that ULTIMATLY the more Truth goes out to the Population the Better!
Down with the Greedy RIAA! KILL THE MONEY GRABBING BASTARDS!!

Ripple on Folks do NOT give in to Them!!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030827/ap_on_hi_te/downloading_music_2

New Story from AP. I found. Oy gevult. ALso if the link doesnt work, which it almost always is the case, delete the BR part at the end.

Forgive me isp-privacy-Just one more thing on what miniguinea stated. In court one swears on the Bible to tell the truth. Remember "So help me God?" and of course, money is political, and if God on your money offends people, they can send it all to me!!! Do you know what US Funds in Canadian dollars turns into? Now, speaking of big bucks, back to the riaa and the web casters, we REALLY do need to financially support these people. So lets all ponder this shall we?

Pepe:

How can you disagree with Slim?
Today was a huge victory for religious diversity. Just as you have the right to listen to any music you want, or believe in any religious principles you want, now a person of any religious denomination can walk into that courtroom and not have the Judeo-Christian 10 Commandments on a two-ton gorilla of a monument staring them in the face.

Take it away isp-privacy. This was your can of worms and take note standup, slimchance is GONE!

Standup:

SlimChance has a history of making highly offensive comments on this board, as well as posting links to pornography. I wrote an email to the moderator yesterday asking that he be censored.

Hey PEPE!

I got it BRO! Hey Bro I know how old you are lol!

nyer82: Good article. The argument of the RIAA seems to be, "The source for nycfashiongirl's sound recordings was not her own personal CDs". My question is, so what? As long as she owns the CD, what does it matter whether she ripped the tracks, or downloaded them? The result is the same. Maybe she doesn't know how to use the track-ripping software. I'm assuming Fair Use rights apply and she's allowed to have a backup copy of the CDs.

SlimChange has been Eliminated...
It Appears he has been Blocked!

Good Rythems to bad Rubbish

Sorry Folks, needed to let go

isp-privacy. I'm never going to hear the end of this age thing am I Oh well, I'm outta here for now...need my rest you know, us oldies! pepe

How can we be sure the bastard isn't posting under a different name?

I loved that Slim guy. He kept things lively around here. I'll miss him.

The people are now taking action, the power is dwindling.

Guys..gals..can we put the commandments/religion stuff in the General Forum or somethin'? Jon is talking about the Webcaster's Alliance and their lawsuit here..can we stick to topic? I would discuss the other stuff in another thread. We need to focus our energies here on an obviously common cause..how to defeat the Riaa and the associated cartels. By the way..new posters..welcome!!mile: We are broadening our base of folks. Let's keep working on that and how we can effectively pool our knowledge and resources to this task.

Here's a good article arguing in favor of internet privacy:

http://www.freep.com/voices/columnists/eswire26_20030826.htm

Here's a quote:

"Privacy is destroyed because it has become so easy to reveal the identity of Internet users. Now, a copyright holder simply fills out a one-page form and a federal clerk immediately issues the subpoena to the Internet service provider (Verizon Online, AOL, MSN, etc.). The service provider must then release the name, home address and phone number of that user. Internet service providers risk large penalties if they even question the validity of the subpoena.

This procedure violates due process, as there is no judicial oversight and only the flimsiest showing of cause. The openness of the Internet is restrained and the First Amendment is undermined when anyone can trace every e-mail and Web page post to a home address and phone number."

krackah -- If you're new here, then you probably don't realize the scope of the problem even though your post mentions it specifically. No press coverage.

The RIAA farts and it makes national news. Today an antitrust suit was filed against them and it has yet to be mentioned on any news source. I have personally written to CNN, the Washington Post, the Inquirer (London) and several other media outlets.

The RIAA owns the media. You're not going to see our side of the issues covered. Just another facet to the overall problem.

As for the music file "fingerprints"...

I've had discussions with Diskmakers about this and it is one of the primary reasons I have refused to have CDs mass produced, will not take part in CDBaby's program and do not want my music listed on Apple's iTunes site. The entire digital rights management bullshit has been in place for years now and this is exactly where I thought it was leading.

I trust my fans and frankly, I don't care if they share my songs on Kazaa or anywhere else. I write and record music to share my creativity with others (thanks to heffie, BTW). There is no way to achieve any measure of success by being an anal greedy pig and worrying about every damn dime you might have gotten. I refuse to be part of it.

The RIAA is a self-destructive organization bent on controlling and monopolizing the music industry at all costs, including our constitutional rights.

I've asked the US Dept of Justice for a class action suit on behalf of all the independent musicians who have been systematically screwed by the so-called industry. The antitrust suit filed by the Webcaster Alliance is a good step in that direction but stops short of dealing with the real issue -- the tens of thousands of us being shut out of the market.

We've been complaining loudly for almost a year now. No one listens, no one pays attention, no one cares.

Especially the press. So if you're new to this drive, understand that the press is our greatest obstacle. They don't want to show our side. FOX, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, CNBC, Gannett, not one of them even gives us more than a glance and never a mention. I've written to every US Senator in the country and only two of them outside of my state have bothered to respond. We are the overwhelming majority, each act a small business in and of itself.

The government does not care what happens to us. We're not buying trips to Taiwan, so our voices do not count. We are illegitimate, irrelevant and have no say in our own livelihood.

I'm beginning to think someone will have to do some outrageous public event that gets them arrested to get any media attention at all.

I just sacrificed my entire life savings and perhaps my house to push my own personal vision of supporting independent music and I simply can't afford to be the one to get arrested on a major felony charge to prove a point. I would lose my just-obtained liquor license, my business, my house, and probably my marriage, the last two of which are on a dangerous footing already as a result of moving to Iowa and believing a friend.

This country is rotting from the core. So please don't come in here and tell us we're not doing it right. No offense, but I've been personally waging as public of a war as I have been able to accomplish for as long as I knew the root of the problem.

The major artists, even my heroes, have turned out to be a bunch of useless idiots who are afraid to speak out or stand up for anything other than their next royalty check. I'm personally sorry that I wasted so much money supporting so many of their careers for so long.

They obviously do not appreciate their fans, are a group of greed merchants and their vision ends at their bank account.

They have turned their back on their fans. They deserve nothing further from us and the music cartel must be legally dismantled.

Don't tell us we're not trying. We're busting our ass to get the truth out.

No one wants to hear the truth and they don't pay attention when they DO hear it. 97 percent of the American people and 99 percent of our government is apparently brain-dead morons.

They're comfortable? Is that what you think krackah? Then don't spoil the status quo. Don't wake up. Let them take you to court for listening to music. Let them search your bag at the airport because you're an elderly white woman that could be a cleverly disguised Muslim terrorist; let them invade your privacy; let them take away your constitutional rights, your freedom of religion, your right to believe in God, your right to free expression, freedom of speech and freedom of choice.

Antitrust? They rewarded Microsoft for antitrust by giving it a contract for national security. That's why I've received more than 300 e-mails containing the SoBig virus in the last 36 hours. We give the world's worst security threat the responsibility of protecting the rest of us. Feel safe?

It's all about money and tyrannical power. I'm hoping the end of the world comes soon, because God knows the human population no longer serves any useful purpose whatsoever except to rape and pillage each other in the name of US mint green.

That's what our country has turned to and I'm ashamed to be part of it. Proud to be an American? The Bill of Rights? Antiquated notions that died with our the tobacco-growing, slave owning, religious zealot founding fathers.

Despite the flaws and moral shallowness of our country's founders, they had a good idea. And Germany is doing a better job of protecting our principles for its people than the US is. Irony? Or is it just that humans are so stupid that they have to get kicked in the face so hard before they'll pay attention?

Homeland Security? For who, the terrorists? Defense Department? When is the last time they defended anything instead of attacked? Central Intelligence Agency? Where's the intelligence? Supreme Court? Hardly supreme. Elected representatives? Representing who?

This is all so wrong on so many levels. It gets worse every day.

gdZiemann:

I agree with everything you say. The old system doesn't work anymore. If we as a society don't adopt a more enlightened approach to living together on this planet then change will be forced upon us. There will come a day of reckoning.

The problem that I see with RIAA, is that if any one of the people whom they are suing were to own all of the cds that they are accused of "virtually shopliftin" then RIAA is in fact suing some of their best customers. The other problem is that even if any of the defendants had copies that originated from Napster, at the time that Napster became popular, it was under debate in the courts as to whether or not it was illeagle. Therefore, making those copies far less illeagle. Also RIAA fails to aknowledge the CD's and merchandice that is sold due to people enjoying the music and then purchasing items related to that download. Also RIAA will eventually shoot themselves in the foot when a foreign napter/kazaa comes out of a country with no copyright law. Leave the internet for the geeks and those who love to share information

I wonder if someone should call Michael Moore on the issue. That guy cracks me up. He is always looking into any issue poses an evil empire vs the meager public. I went to the movie store today and his most recent release "bowling for columbine" was all sold out. The video store had an entire section for this movie. If you don't know who he is, check this out.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

This guy has connections and he really pisses off the CEO's of a lot of corporations. Anyways, just a suggestion.

What ye Sow, so shall ye Reap

There's a Cause & Effect on everything we do...
Spreading Light Spreads Light, Spreading Darkness creates Darkness, similiar to the RIAA.

Here's an Exciting Quote for the Good Folks who love Serving others without Greed etc----> VICTOR'S REPLY: (source of information from Anthony Borgia, Silver Birch) - if the mentioned closed-minded skeptics (for selfish reasons - career promotions, funding etc) - intentionally spread darkness nasty afterlife propaganda - when they KNOW there is empirical evidence for the afterlife, the undisputed information is that on crossing over they will be sucked down to a dark realms to accommodate their low level of vibrations.This is about the unavoidable law of 'cause and effect.' They will initially deny they are in the afterlife. This is because they will be EXACTLY how they were on earth with a body - with all their memories, character, nastiness - if any - all intact. The probable worst case scenario is that they will be down in the dark, horrible realms for hundreds of years, all confused, in horrific conditions - probably with a great deal of despair. When they admit what they did was wrong, they can turn towards the good spirits, towards the Light. Highly credible sources - Silver Birch, Hugh Benson -tell us some stay in great despair in the dark realms for hundreds of years by earth's time. To get some idea of the horrific, really nasty conditions that will shock the daylights out of you in the lowest realms go to the chapter THE LOWER REALMS- in the book mentioned above by Anthony Borgia. Aghhhhh!!!!
Exciting Link---> http://www.victorzammit.com/

George - I feel your pain. Hardship, frustration, anger, and desperation are not strangers to many of us here.

But please remember that tens of thousands of America's best, brightest, and bravest men and women with everything to live for and their whole lives still ahead of them have made the ultimate sacrifice for this country. They gave their lives for us.

The fight for freedom, to live our lives how we choose, is a never ending battle. But to stop would be a dishonor and disservice to all those who have died for us and continue to die every single day in IRAQ and worldwide.

I'm not ready to give up on America.

"Absolute power, corrupts absolutely."

george you alright man. I agree with George. everyone is looking at RIAA and how RIAA does this and does that. Ignore the industry totally and they will not be a problem. There is plenty of music that is not RIAA owned. People also keep talking about legal ways to pay for the music like through cell phones and ISP's but in the end Independents will be tossed aside once again and the system will be controlled. So if you truly want to boycott RIAA. Go see a band on Friday and Saturday night at the local bar buy thier CD and share thier music and tell people about the great band you have found in your area. Tell them on tthe messageboads,chatrooms, emails. The way you kill a 800 pound gorilla is not to fight it but take its food away and starve it.

George,
That post was one of the best i've read in a while. It sounded like that AWESOME speech you gave in front of the copyright office, its only a shame they don't even know how to turn on a computer. Not sure why they even came if they don't even understand electronics. I will be out protesting in one and a half weeks. The music industry in the RIAA's eyes is on its way out as they claim to be loosing about 3 billion dollars a year. Next year they will be under 30 billion and by the time my kids are 5, they will have been below 20 billion or so. Hope things are working out with your marriage, keep the faith.
Cya

great thing about posting late, nobody ever readsmy rants so I don't have to answer for them. )

Still, It's time for a rant so even if nobody reads it... well

I've been pretty quiet lately because I've been waiting for some big developments. I think it's great that the WA is suing the riaa. I think it's great that Earth Station 5 told the mpaa to go screw themselves (even if ES5 isn't all it was made out to be) But let's put something in perspective. These people are willing to lose a little money in the short term as long as they get to keep screwing the world indefinately as a payoff. As long as the riaa survives they win and they know that.

There are a lot of different issues right now that are clouding the real problem. That is control. Someone else has control. they want to keep it. They want to tell you what to listen to, what news to hear, what politicians to vote for and where to spend you're money. Anyone who stands up to them is a target Look at that guy in Alabama. It really isn't a question of religion, it's a question of making us obey. If you don't want to obey then you will certainly be broken.

Now I'm going to tie all of this together quite simply. Today in Chicago a guy went off the deep end and killed a half a dozen of his former co-workers in a shooting spree. Why? Because he was pushed too far. Right or wrong (and I think he was wrong)he was pushed into doing something horrible. Says a mouthful doesn't it? What's the lesson here? Simple just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Hey the boy named sue, (cary sheman) are you listening? You been watching those people who are pissed because they can't keep the 10 commandments in a government building? You should be because if you're gonna keep screwing the public you may need Jesus.

Here's a quote from Martin Luther King Jr. that will probably get me sued. "We must learn to live together as brothers or we will perish together as fools."

Am I making threats here? No. I'm stating the obvious. A few pennies of profit is not worth the destruction of our social fabric. It is not worth fucking people out of their lives and making felons out of a third of our contry. If you think it is maybe you should read "Moby Dick"

First off, major props to George, Bill, and Jon (where's Ringo?
Second, I noticed on one of the articles, that one of the lawyers was wondering if it is legal to rip MP3s from CDs you own or not. So, that's a consideration. See, the reason for that, is that you are not just making a backup of the original CD, you are changing format and altering it, and I believe the RIAA would say you are making "unauthorized" reproductions at that point.

But, on to the more serious thing. This deal about why they are keeping all these digital fingerprints, tracking the movement of the files, getting names of previous file owners, etc. kept bugging me, because they didn't need to go to that extent for simple copyright infringement actions.

And, they kept mentioning the fact that these files, some of which, could be traced to Napster. I kept thinking,why would they care?

Let's look at what it seems they are doing. They are examining all the files in a shared folder (remember, with nycfashiongirl, they claimed they found a downloaded movie). The apparently are maintaining extensive records of the "fingerprints" of downloaded songs, kind of like the unique pedigree of each song. They are obviously, trying to find each username associated with each file. My suspicion is that they are developing flowcharts of each file and where it has been, kind of like a little family tree of each file.

Now, this is gonna be reaching, but follow me down this path. The RIAA has been after law enforcement to go after filesharers in criminal investigations.
So far, they have been unsuccessful for the most part.

I believe all this checking for past history is that they are developing either a civil or, the elements of a criminal RICO case (RICO are organized crime and racketeering statutes). Before you dismiss this idea out of hand, check out this link :
http://www.supremelaw.org/copyrite/msen.com/subid2.htm. Note that on that link, there is a FOUR YEAR statute of limitations under a civil RICO.
OK, now, I believe it's possible they think there are a certain number of people, who are associated with each other, loosely, that have been uploading the files to the services. That's why they are doing all this tracking of the files, hash mark analysis, etc.
Now, I could be way off base, but it wouldn't be too outlandish for them to be heading in that direction. It is obvious they have been meticulously following these files for a reason, since they are tracking them since Napster, and it makes little sense to do that just for a copyright infringement case to me.

Of course, I could be wrong. I hope I am.
~code

George, I wrote the deal about props to you before i read your post, because I know you to be one of the people who are honest and care about other people. And, after reading that post, wow, you are right on every count my friend! But, unfortunately, most people are just not aware of the scope of the problems, because, as you so properly said, the media is intentionally managing the news, not just on our issue, but every issue, and they just point with their virtual finger at the issues they want us to preoccupy ourselves with, like this Kobe Bryant story. Apathy has been at epidemic proportions for some time now. People are trying to keep their jobs and keep their head above water.
For those who strike out alone to break new ground, it is a rough road. Pioneers don't move into new areas over a smooth, paved, six lane highway. The push themselves bloodied, past thorns, over rocks, in the rain, snow, and heat, fighting mosquitoes and hunger.
Your post reminded me of a biblical quote about crying out in the wilderness.
I think a lot of us who love music, and have been around a while, are like you. We have built up this image of our favorite artists as good, decent folks, but now, are having our illusions smashed , dashed ,and crashed, by seeing that they are money grubbing , greedy jerks (maybe not all). It's also EXTREMELY frustrating and disheartening to be that voice crying in the wilderness, and no one listens, and no governmental agency seems to give a damn, when people with money break the law. It seems the only time they even make a show of doing something, is when the media gets in the act or someone goes public with allegations of wrongdoing. I think it is odd that no one associated with the RIAA has become a whistleblower, unless, the money is too good and none of them have any morals or ethics or integrity (could this be? ).
I too feel your pain from what you wrote George. You are a good guy, and you are doing the right thing brother. Doing the right thing often is not pretty, not popular, not profitable, and often, not the safe thing. But, for people of conscience, it is the only thing.
I was looking at all the usernames on the latest list of subpoenas and wondering, why aren't they here! The site is easy to find on Google. I know not everyone shares the same religion here, and probably there are people with no religion, and are atheists, and I for one, am totally against pushing my beliefs on anyone, so please don't anyone think I am trying to offend anyone by saying this, but George, I am praying for the best for you and yours, physically, financially, and in all ways brother!

You really are fighting for the rights of others, and I hope you hang in there, and do what you can. But, with all you've done, I for one would also say, that if you decided to stop now, you've earned a rest my friend.

In closing, and this is from the heart George, God bless you!

Love, luck, prosperity, and health to all...
~code

I remember reading on the RIAAs website something to the effect that you can one convert cd's to MP3s that one bought the music and they want people to listen to it any way they desire, its only violates copyrights when someone makes music availble for others to grab. Note this is not the exact quote I can take the agony of going back to that site to get it.
I also read that they have no problem with someone making a cd copy for there own personal use..
I wanted to call sueman and say then why the f*ck do you make copy protected CD's and try to make CD's unrippable

So if the RIAA claims in any way ripping your own CD's to MP3's is illegal then they contradict what they have posted on their website.

as for what krackah said a ways up in this message I think this site is helpful, Its in my aim profile, people will click on the link and it will spread, Every person we can get see how the RIAA sucks is one more person that can help spread to word, and potentially take action.

Every person that speaks on here is critical, it could be one message that one person writes that opens someones eyes. It could take a lot work to get one person to open their eyes they may believe its stealing and its wrong becuase they have been brainwashed. If they here from enough people the reasons why the RIAA is wrong it will stick to some people.

George, sounds as if you are "venting" like I frequently do on here. Somehow you do it eloquently and I (usually in a drunken stupor) tend to offend everyone and everyone. You been sitting on the Webcaster Alliance vs RIAA suit for a while and I want you to know that everyone here made so much noise cheering when it came on the Tech TV broadcast this morning that we got the law called on us! (nope, not kidding!) Just the FACT that some progress is being made to advance the issues is heartening.

But it is OK to get dispondant every once in a while.

Shmoo, of Electric Gypsy

Here's a sobering thought.

*Generally* - just generally mind you, the media doesn't have the power to dictate what people think. It merely has the power to dictate what people think about.

Generally, this has not been in our favor, as the RIAA's abuses haven't recieved any attention.

But, in order for RIAA's "sue 'em all" campaign to work, to intimidate 60 million Americans - they HAVE to change the system. A fear campaign that nobody knows about is one that no one is afraid of.

So the RIAA is getting into the limelight. And like krackah, when people start to realize that the RIAA could sue them, the instinct is not to go out and buy CDs. Indeed, the instinct is to, well, come here. To not give the RIAA any more money. In some cases, even to spread the word.

When you target people with a fear campaign, you also make yourself the object of loathing.

This is why I only buy Indie CDs, this is why I don't use Peer-2-Peer except for Furthernet (and why hasn't anyone used the Furthernet source code to develop a peer-2-peer solution that only distributes indie music?)

George is right, though, this is a symptom of American Military-Corporate culture. While Clinton's administration passed the draconian copyright laws, Bush's administration ignores the anti-trust violations... this country is rotten to the core, and I can't help but see parellels to other historical empires which valued military expansion over individual freedom.

The truth is, while the RIAA makes it difficult for filesharers, we can't win in the courts. The RIAA bought the laws. Best to lay low, not share for right now, (or better yet, share only authorized indie music) because the battle will have to be won at the ballot box.

-- Funksaw

Hey, everybody..howzabout going to the Webcaster Alliance Site and kicking in a donation..I am going to the bank today and firing off some money. Something tells me that financial help at this point would be critical..
BTW.The lawsuit story is all over the news today..quoteth the Riaa, the suit is a "publicity stunt."

gd..good idea, I will post some education on my site as well.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/32524.html

The above story has a little extra background to let everyone know a bit more than the basic facts.

George, we're behind you all the way. No more RIAA music, maybe never again.

As much as I loathe the RIAA's tactics, maybe it's a good thing. As you said, people won't wake up until they get kicked in the head a few times.

I think it's interesting that the number of subpoenas hasn't risen as sharply as the RIAA said it would. I expected multiples of thousands of subpoenas by now, they way they hyped this thing. Their "storm" of subpoenas looks more like a trickle to me.

Once people actually start having to face court action, maybe we'll hear more about it. Or, maybe the RIAA had to rethink their strategy, because too large a number of actions WOULD draw attention to what they're doing. It's a hard one to call. When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember your initial mission was to drain the swamp.

We'll see. As for the state of the country, the 'silent majority' is still silent, for the most part. Yes, the govt is doing stupid and dangerous things, but they still have to tread carefully, because they don't want to wake up the kids.

That's the problem: the frog placed in cold water and slowly brought to a boil doesn't realize how hot it is until it's too late.

Yeah, I'm rambling. Coffee hasn't kicked in yet, but "it ain't over 'til it's over." hmmmm, can I be sued for that?

T-Shirt Slogan: It's not INTERNET PIRACY, IT'S INTERNET PRIVACY!