Jane Doe's legal motion to block an RIAA subpoena demanding that Verizon give up her name says the subpoena violates her rights to due process, privacy and anonymous association, as well as her contract with Verizon.

Her arguments "have already been addressed by a federal judge - and they have been rejected," NewsFactor Network's James Maguire has RIAA senior vp Matt Oppenheim saying here. "Courts have already ruled that you are not anonymous when you publicly distribute music online."

Court records say Jane Doe used Kazaa, but tried to prevent other P2P users from accessing files on her PC, says Maguire, going on, "She used the Kazaa software mostly as a music player to listen to music from her own CDs as well as files that were bundled with her computer, court documents claim.

"The RIAA issued a subpoena to Verizon, her ISP, on July 9th, demanding her contact information. Verizon informed Jane Doe of the subpoena on July 15th. Jane Doe, deciding to fight the subpoena, asked Verizon to withhold her name."

The pressure on subpoenaed individuals is enormous, Forrester analyst Josh Bernoff told NewsFactor.

"An individual who settles with the RIAA is likely to end up paying in the range of $10,000 to $30,000 dollars. An individual who does not settle is liable somewhere in $100,000 per downloaded song range." Fighting and losing a lawsuit against the RIAA "could bankrupt an individual forever," he said.

The RIAA's subpoena skirmishes will continue, and "almost every individual will end up settling," Bernoff said.

But, he added, the RIAA, too, is in danger - of losing a case against file swappers.

Not only that! but there will be a hugh landslide of American consumers that will basicaly tell them to EAT THEIR MUSIC!

Can we challenge RIAA lawyers to a tackle football game? (darn, I couldn't play, as I always am guilty of unnecessary roughness).
ANYWAY...to the RIAA...Guess what else has been rejected, but by even a higher power...the MUSIC FANS..your client's music is being rejected!

Will the RIAA lose a case? Just let some soccer moms, some plumbers, some independent musicians on the juries...
hmmm...lemme put on my swami hat and dust off my crystal ball...
I SEE....its murky, lemme polish the surface...now, it's becoming clear...
I see a newspaper headline...
RIAA LOSES...CARY SHERMAN CRIES IN COURT LIKE A LITTLE GIRL.
=====First Mate===Make it So~!
~code

everytime they win a case they always say "you are not anonymous when you publicly distribute music online." shut the fuck up, its the same old song everyday, ooo you know what i found out, you know those goodie bags you get when you leave a childrens birthday party, well they give a goodie bag worth 31,000 dollars to people who present awards at the oscars, 31,000 just to go on stage and give a fuking award, to them its nothing man why dont you give those 31,000 to a homeless family or to hungry children in africa instead of a rich spoiled celebrity that doesnt apreciate the blessings god gave them. the rich are getting richer and the poor is getting poorer. man i rather move to a starving country than to keep living here. atleast they have some respect and dignity which this country will never have. it took a terrorists attack to make people proud to be an american and put the american flag on their cars and windows, when they should of been out from day 1.

What does it take to get illegally nabbed by a RIAA-sniffer?

And where do I sign up?

The RIAA's play has been challenged by the opposition. Upon further review, the RIAA is simply blowing smoke: they mention nothing in the article about the Jane Doe case since it has yet to take place. They are misleading the press into thinking the case has already been won by falsely stating older, unreleated, and wholly different cases which tilted in their favor in the past. The RIAA will be charged one time-out, automatic first down...

Good for her!

You know....come to think of it,if it were me I think I would consider a jury trial instead of settling out of court. If I had to pay 25,000 dollars , I I would go for a "hail mary" and and take my chances with my 60 million peers in favor of file sharing. haha get it? peer to peers?

Sorry I posted on the wrong article I meant good for her on the first Jane Doe article.

They may not be able to find a jury, who isn't already prejudiced.. one way or another

This irks me when the RIAA says this:
Her arguments "have already been addressed by a federal judge - and they have been rejected," NewsFactor Network's James Maguire has RIAA senior vp Matt Oppenheim saying here. "Courts have already ruled that you are not anonymous when you publicly distribute music online."

SHE IS NOT DISTRIBUTING MUSIC, THE FILES MAY HAVE BEEN IN THAT FOLDER, BUT ACCORDING TO HER, THEY WERE NOT BEING SHARED! This is going to get interesting.

I just love how the RIAA says your guilty of Filesharing even when you files in your shared folder and you may not be sharing them. They sure don't know jack about computers.

Here is another idea. Many artists have a webpage where you can either send a massage to the band (or singer) or at least post a massage on their guest book. Say one of your favorite artists has just moved from an indie label to an RIAA memeber labla or belonged to RIAA member labal all the time. You can tell them that unfortunately you'll not be able to buy their music now since they belong to the evil empire. I, for example, love the 'Mooney Suzuki' and they switched from an indie label to Clumbia. I posted a massage on their board telling them I'm very sorry but I can't buy their new album and why.

Some of the artists may actually pay attention to what their fans write there (especially the less know ones) and if not at least the other fans who visit the guest book can read and maybe be aware of what is going on.

Be sure to include the adress of boycott-riaa in your post.

NCdude

Ok... if they were not being shared....than what the hell were they doing in her files? The news interview on TechTv said they were only looking for people with open files (WILLING TO SHARE). A'm I missing something here?Does that mean they are snooping files another way? Hmmmmmmmmm! This makes me mad, its going to put more fear out there.....I think the EFF or the P2P industry needs to lobby and launch a full scale investigation (other than Norm Colemans committe) into just how they are gaining this information? Somebody needs to do some detective work.

I agree with r0dr0ddy. This is just RIAA propaganda. It's a PR move intended to discourage othere subpoena targets from doing the same thing. The RIAA is scared to death of losing just one case.

VERY GOOD IDEA NCdude......that thought passed my mind also!

isp-privacy, as I understand it she tried to setup KaZaa so she wouldn't share her files but apparently didn't set it up correctly. The files were inadvertantly shared, from her point of view. They were probably rips of CDs she had purchased. It seems to me she might have a case. It was not her intent to distribute the files. The fact that the software makes it difficult NOT to offer the files for sharing isn't exactly her fault. The RIAA can't back down on this one because of the publicity. It'll have to go to court. Then it's a crapshoot. The only way the RIAA could try to get out of it is to offer her some deal like: pay a $1 fine, the lawsuit is dropped, and you sign a confidentiality agreement saying that you can't say anything about the settlement. The RIAA could then declare victory. Hopefully, this woman wouldn't go for something like that.

Well. I'm already bankrupt you RIAA f***S! And I'll do it again if cornered. It ain't as bad as people think.

You are far better off without credit cards and paying 3 times the cost of a home anyways.

I feel good that the bank doesn't have my soul.

I haven't bought a cd in ages and If I ever do, it will be used, so only the record store guy gets paid but not the RIAA. However, I will probably just borrow from friends who were stupid enough to buy them.

They cannot win this fight!
Rebel. Fight. Win.

Just another note on my suggestion above. If it is OK for the RIAA to contact individual members of the online community (our community), it is OK for us to contact individual members of their community: namely the artists signed in their labels. And we shpould tell those artists that staying with those TIAA labels will cost them in fans.

NCdude

The actions being taken against common people are detestable. The RIAA is a form of people I hate more than any other. People doing pure evil in the name of good. Fighting for the Artist does not justify destroying lives. Thats what taking 10-30 thousand dollars does to someone. They have to know this. It would be impossible not to. Beyond that bills into the hundreds of thousands of dollars is financial murder.

When I think about the people I know that do this stuff I only know of people
that deserve the best out of life. Never would any of them deserve to be treated
like this. These are every day people. Husbands and wives. Children with futures. Friends and every other kind of loved one. Yet the value of their lives it back seated to that of business. How can anyone anyware begin to justify the morality of this?

You are going to tell me that one dollar worth of music can cost someone 750-150,000 times its original value? there is no place for this in a fair world.

It should a best be a fine. Like a traffic ticket. Fined 2-3 times the original value of a song perhaps. At that point you have been legally forced to purchase the music and its the end of it. No outrageous fines. Just big enough to not make someone want to do it again. But NO. We want to allow people to be raped for everything they have. Evil. Pure and simple. I don't want to hear it painted as justice or anything else noble. Its not.

I think everyone is getting the feeling that these issues go deeper than stupid music trading. This is about a government that is run amok driven by corporate control.

Check out this NAtional Initaiative for democracy.

If passed, we can directly electronically vote for bills and suggest new laws. This would get around our representatives that are not really representing us and would help keep corporations like the RIAA from mowing over the people against our will.

http://www.ni4d.us
Check it out if you have time and post your ideas on this.

An ex senator is putting it together. He basically got up on c-span and said that senators think of what the people want lastly if they even do. The first thing they think is how will this vote affect my career. Secondly, my party. thirdly, campaign contributors, etc etc.

As you see. We clearly cannot be represented under these circumstances. It is a corrupt system that we must fix.

IFEELFREE .....Ok that happen to me. If it were not for my 17 year old son my files would have been wide open. It took me two years to figure out what the little cat icon was on my computer when he was on Napster! I'll tell ya fellers i'm over 50 and I was'nt hand fed on computers. You younger guys were brought up on this . I was into Japanese transistor radios& hulla hoops. I did'nt get into computers until the commodre 64....remember that ?

To have a trail on this subject would be ludicrous! The Constitution already gaurantees us certain rights to privacy, liberty, due process, and freedom of expression, all of which are being violated by Laws and Bills written to suit the Recording Industry itself...Hmmmm....Kinda reminds me of the Political Process in Italy where the Premier is having Laws written to suit himself and his top aides to protect them from prosecution!
When are the people in the "We The People" part of the constitution ever going to have a say in what laws get passed? It seems like our forefathers gauranteed this from the start! NOT! Government has gotten too big and too greedy. It also has tied itself to the "Special Interests" like a baby to the mothers' umbilical chord! Each sucking the fruits of labor away from the citizenry and placing us in the predicament that Germany was in just before and during WWII (remember the Nazi Party where everything was controlled via Hitler and his henchmen?). This is making it awful hard to declare that you are "Proud To Be An AMERICAN"! This comming from a US Veteran is an awful hard, bitter pill to swallow, but, it is true! So, why don't the 60 million or so of us just secceed and form our own country? Any Takers?

OH goodie gum drops... I just love it when Im going to go bankrupt by ppl who are affluent, money rolls out of their nose

I agree. The fines are ridiculous. They think that Americans are so afraid of being ruined. They don't realize that we already have been. All good manufacturing jobs are done overseas and we created the technology.

It's a stupid system. We are all becoming unemployed and then taking Walmart and Mcdonalds jobs.

The more I think about that. I think that would be better nowadays. Why make a crapload of money just to get taxed to death and support illegal aliens that are taking over, foreign manufacturing sectors, and rebuilding people that would kill us.

Don't bother making your kids go to school unless they are going to be a lawyer. There will be no good jobs here before long worth investing in an education for. But lawyers will be suing the crap out of us for years to come.

So, RIAA. You are trying to squeeze blood from a rotten turnip by going after Americans.

Maybe thats part of the overall plan. Think about it.

Take the middle class jobs and drag them further into poverty level. Let illegal aliens flood into the country so the ones who are working will be bogged down supporting them and giving our jobs to foreigners. foreigners work for nothing and this keeps everyone poor. We could block the Mexican border if our government wanted to. Now we are being ravaged by a corporation targeting our already bankrupt finances directly. Can it get any worse?

This in effect chokes out the middle class. Since none of this makes any sense, it must be a conspiracy.

Either that, or our government officials are retarded. Something tells me that they are not retarded.

These actions givien enought time will toss this country into ruin. People are going broke and takeing all their money and turning common people into criminals is not going to fix anything. It is a short sighted solution at best.

Behind all these legal arguments, there's the moral argument. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to discuss this issue with non-file sharers and their response is, "It's stealing". OK, let's say, for the sake of argument, it's stealing. Does that make it wrong, in and of itself? Every action depends on the context. We all agree that killing is wrong, right? How about in self-defense? How about a soldier who goes off to fight a just war? How about a father who kills to stop someone who is attacking his children? People who try to reduce morality to a simple set of rules are just misguided and lazy. Yes, file sharing is "stealing" in some strange, restriced sense of the word, but it's not wrong. If I choose to sample new music that I've never heard before before I can decide whether I want to buy a CD, what has the recording industry lost? Even if I choose to download but not purchase CDs, it's mainly because no acceptable fee-based service exists. I don't accept copyright law and I believe in the concept of a gift-based economy. You may disagree, but that's a matter of personal philosophy. Do not call me morally inferior. I do not accept that.

I will pay a fare share for an artist's cd....but i'm sick and tired of paying for these greedy bas----s that are always on the take for someones elses creation!' Same goes for the insurance companies! what did people do before the insurance companies got their greedy hands into the pot!. There is always someone ready to make money off somebodys hard work! They ride around in the black limos, eating at the finest resturants,FATCATS yessiree!
Well I want to pay the artist direct for their fine music SOOOOOOOO how do we let them know that?

There's another development in the RIAA vs. MIT matter:

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V123/N31/31riaa.31n.html

It seems the RIAA is re-filing it's subpoena against MIT in the Federal District Court in Boston. Also, it appears that there's some confusion about who owned the MIT computer where the alleged file sharing took place. Also, is uncertain who actually shared the files. Also, the RIAA continues to press the matter with the Washington D.C. court so they won't have to go to local courts with these subpoenas. What a mess.

Both r0dr0ddy and directive mentioned that this has not really been addressed by the courts. If the RIAA is more than happy to lie about what is going on why wouldn't they lie about a judge addressing the issue. The ONLY person to say that the issued was addressed was the VP of the RIAA. And he did not actually state that a judge ruled on the Jane Doe motion.

And the lies continue.

The files had to have been shared, that's the only way a user can list someone else's files isn't it?

If she tries to grab publicity by lying, the RIAA might decide not to settle and destroy her in court.

isp- oh, but you're forgetting that "countless unsung music employees" paychecks depend on you giving your money to the labels (as forced down our throats in the RIAA "educational campaign"). What would our world be like without, uh, the guy who designs the plastic CD case, or... um... the sales guy at best buy who has no idea what good music is or, ah... forget it.
Digital downloads don't cost a penny to the artists, the only costs incurred by them is engineering, paying for studio time, instruments, and mastering. Like you, isp, I am more than willing to pay the artist direct, but the RIAA isn't willing to let that happen. Sending a letter to the band will get the point across in the most direct manner, but if they're bound by a contract we may simply be blowing in the wind...

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=e0000452a66d812d

Why don't they go after toshiba....they have a big pocket....check it out!

Sorry.... article talks about Toshiba just came out with a 20 gig (Gigabeat)1.8 inch HD that can hold up to 5000 mp3'S

M1 - don't be so sure. If she can prove she took some kind of technological measure to keep her files from being shared, and the RIAA circumvented it (either accidentally or intentionally) Jane Doe can claim a breach of security, and state that her computer was secured and that any information the RIAA may have obtained from it is inadmissible in court, because they (the RIAA) obtained it via unauthorized access to her pc.

Furthermore, what if she is able to physically produce evidence that she had licenses for/owned all of the alleged music?

This could go one of two ways - she is either lying, and will have a brutal trial on her hands, or she truthfully DID try and prevent her files from being shared.

In the event of the latter, this could get very messy - Jane Doe will claim she was not sharing, the RIAA will show their so-called "proof"... Who's to say where it goes from there?

IMHO, it may very well depend on what angles the lawyers take (assuming it does go to court)...

(PS, r0dr0ddy - you'd be suprised how many 'major label' artists are thumbing their respective noses at the RIAA lately... [did you hear about Pearl Jam, lol?])

Yea....rOdr.....I see what your saying but ..The artist can can handle their own promo's and there are many disk pack (blanks) companies out there that would deal direct with them. have you ever downloaded a cd (exact duplicate CD cover) off the internet? they are there! I could'nt believe it. So I don't think it would be much of a problem for them to hire a distributer. IT WOULD MEAN MORE JOBS! and I think they would enjoy THE FREEDOM!!!!

damn check this out..

http://dc.internet.com/news/article.php/3067341

Hypothesising that "jane doe" was nabbed by current law, and there is no positive outcome of the fleecing of "jane doe"'s saving's account.

How do I entangle the same injustices to ultimately find me just?

Wethepeople I agree with you 100%,They keep this up and we'll all be living in a hole.This goverment has not created one new job in 3 years,and you have lawyers suing us for money because we downloaded some music that keeps us sane. We need vote all that hurts this nation out of office..

IFeelFree this is off the topic of the riaa and more on the topic of the morals issure you raised, and I don't want to incur anyones wrath here, but look what is happening in Alabama with that Christian Justice Minister Roy Moore. They passed the law (8 members on this supreme court) to tear out the monument of the Ten Commandments, but on that monument is also a tribute to your Declaration of Independence - charters of freedom.. all this because three people were offended by the monument. People, rules are being changed at the drop of a hat. Who are these people who are getting all these rules changed? Pepe

So what do we do now. The RIAA has the money to sue anyone (even when they are wrong) into bankruptcy. Should they win you lose, should you win they appeal until you run out of money and settle, and they win by default. They have the ridiculous copyright laws giving them ownership of music well into the 22nd century. They have the DCMA and have purchased congress to do their bidding.

We may have the people on our side but we is not protesting the draft and Vietnam. No one really is going to jail or Canada in a protest over P2P sharing.

The generation of the 60s viewed itself as the new generation to change things for the better. Look at it now that they are in charge, things couldn't be more fu*ked up. Large conglomorates control everything and everyone from the 60s has a new God the almighty $.

It sounds like most of the people on this site are under 25-30. It is up to you to get involved, either get elected or elect folks who share your views on music among other things. When it is your turn to run the country, de-emphasise our societys dependence on the $ and dismantle the monoliths that the generation of the 60s created. Because if you don't, you will live with even more terrible demons than the RIAA.

As for me, I will vote for those candidates that share my views, and I am considering going back to vinyl, seems you can get a lot of music cheap on ebay.

^\surf

"My country shitted on me (My country)
She wants to get rid of me (Naw, never)
Cause the things I seen (We know too much)
Cause the things I seen (We seen too much)" My Country by Nas

If the people running the country are the products of the 60's.. what happened to them? They were promoters of peace and free love, and sharing all your stuff was the thing to do. Music sharing should fall into that category. Whats with all these rules to incriminate everyone. As I said, what has happened to these people? How did they get so warped!

they got rich thats what happened pepe512000 and then they became greedy little bitches

HEY WATCH IT PEPE! I'm a product of the 50's and 60's .....LOL... just kidding!
Our generation grew up as spoiled WW2 brats! Our parents fought the war to end all wars and commenced to raise us BABYBOOMERS! And yes PEPE.....we are all spoiled selfish greedy brats! You are looking at the seeds what were sown 50 years ago or more! And you know what it gets worse as time goes on. During the Vietnam years if you served in the military you were treated as a Baby killer. when you came home you were spat on. You were ashamed to wear the uniform at times in public. It was that bad. And now yes these same people are running this country! Bill Clinton was a very good example! He protested during Vietnam in Russia aganist our own troops!

Who the hell only uses KaZaA as a media player? It's only a WMP plugin.

http://www.fairtunes.com

If the link is fucked it's:

fairtunes dot com

GO AHEAD, BANKRUPT ME FOREVER. THEN I WILL HAVE NO CHOICE, BUT TO KILL YOU ALL.

isp-privacy AMEN to that! I hear you I'm a 60's product. I still believe in what I was preaching back then (not so much free love anymore, cause that just gets you trouble But I feel I have pretty high morals, and I still believe that file sharing is NOT stealing. If someone opens up his hard drive and says help yourself, his computer, shouldn't that be up to him?

BTW, it's a Canadian site now expanded into America.

All I can say is, arm yourselves with knowledge...

PEPE....I look at it this way! EVERYTHING CHANGES.....You and I have lived long enough to see that! I lost a 20 year career to downsizing and deregulation of the Nuclear power Industry .. .. I had to start all over! My rug got pulled out from underneath my comfortable Arse... so you know what I say to the music Industry? JOIN THE WORLD OF CHANGE! Its their turn......even if they win every suit......They will loose the war they are waging.......You can't stop change!

I'm from the 60s as well. The problem is that not all of that generation were into the peace and love thing. Some put on a pretense but were really closet capitalists. Most of us from that era who really believed in creating a better society never attained sufficient power to implement those ideals. It's hard to work from within the system if you don't really believe in the system. It's getting to the point where the old ways don't really work anymore. Chaos always precedes change. We'll try to change the system if we can, but if the status quo hangs on with an iron grip, we'll have to defy them. For file sharing this means, give us acceptable, inexpensive fee-based systems, Fair Use rights, and reasonable copyright laws. If not, we must become outlaws and circumvent the system.

Somebody provided this link:
http://dc.internet.com/news/article.php/30673 41

What I do not like about the article is the RIAA's attitude toward catching this guy. Also, they say they have nabbed 22 ppl total. My logic tells me this, 22 ppl ain't jack. Pure scare tactic. Its like saying, the city of los angeles only prosecuted 22 murderers. Make sense, there are thousands of ppl getting away with it.
Nuff said.

Also, i don't condone sharing there files, but just fed up with the RIAA making a statement like: "We've caught 22 ppl illegal filesharing, look at us, were doing SO MUCH".

If the Music Industry came to thier senses lowered thier pride, and said WE are sorry we know there is a better way to handle this. We want to work with our artist and P2P companies. We want to hear our customers demands, They would begin to see new growth in a new market. Instead of putting all thier resources into lawsuits driving people to boycotts, they could actually begin to build a new company in an exciting new market!

IFEELFREE......very well said!

Maybe I will write a letter to the RIAA and try a different approach! YES I think I will do that!

I'm sorry, I too want to see the artists paid, and like IFeelFree, want to see a paid subscription service put into place. I don't want to be made to feel like a criminal. And I sure don't like hearing how this is considered stealing from the riaa... even so. We just have to make them part with their precious liscensing, and get this thing legalized. Which brings me back to the other post I made about laws being created at the drop of a hat. If they could figure out a way to get the money they.. cough cough.. needed? or moreso desired.. your heads would swim with how fast this law could be put into place!

ISP...me and you bud....we're the "OGs"...heck, I was here when I first heard "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" as a first release on my transistor I got for my birthday. I downloaded that song straight into my auditory canal and played it over and over in my brain and didn't have to pay a nickle. Come to think of it, I recorded it off my transistor onto my little cheap tape recorder. So I guess if Cary-Sue had been on the planet, he'd have wanted to figure a way to sue me...ooops, but he couldn't..no DMCA back then...Ahhhhhhhhhh, the good old days, I remember them well!
~code

Since Sen. John McCain is also going to be looking into the RIAA shenanigans, let's send him an e-mail on OUR concerns on the RIAA! cool?
~code

CODE!!!!!!DID YOU BUY A BEETLE WIG! LOL!!

LOL...my real hair WAS a beatle cut

Hey, here;s a new link I found.
http://www.protectfairuse.org
~code

As with all lawsuits it seems that one is better off if they are filthy rich, or pretty damn poor.

It would be killer if "Jane Doe" turned out to be Cher.

Oh code, I bet you were a doll!
Seriously, did anyone just see the Daryl Kagan interview with(can't remember his name darn) they were discussing the first lawsuit coming up in November against (can't remember his name) See I am a 60s product anyway, it was a good interview and actually had a semi-positve slant.. the main question was why aren't they (the riaa) trying to make money on the internet rather than squashing the technology and alienting their customers and the other person actually agreed. I love Daryn Kagan!!! pepe

Code, you guys are amateurs. I was a member of our 'Dave Clark 5' fan club in 4th grade.

Sorry for the double post forgot to mention this is CNN we're talking about! pepe

This may be old news. but I was on the Techtv RIAA hit list and I see they added about 300 more today. Im not sure of the totals but lets say get on the avg 20,000 per victim thats ummmm! lets see: Kaching Kaching! clikc clikc click What a about 2 1\2 mill before lawyers fees? dam i'm no bean counter CODE!!!!!

What about

isp-privacy :

Yellow submarine , your favorite movie ay ! LOL

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, $150,000 for a song... perhaps the punishment should be buying the CDs that you downloaded?
Think about who gets paid when one purchases a CD from a store, the store, the trucking company, the CD pressers, the label, the producer among others, and the smallest cut of all goes to the artist. When one downloads the only one ripped off is the artist, Kmart and the truckers have nothing to complain about. The largest cut and the most unfair goes to the riaa-backed label, they're usually ripping off both the consumer and the artist. Fining someone $150,000 shows the informed world that the riaa has bullshitted our lawmakers and bent justice at the core. Does the artist get the $150,000? Does the filesharer after paying the fine now legally own the mp3? Who the hell is looking at my PC's contents?!? (Im not sharing my virus hope you know aboot firewalls) Are our lawmakers not concerned about these questions?
Good luck Jane Doe, I see these laws as unconstational and Im registered to vote (and a gun owner)

Ok This post will definetly get lost, so please someone email me. I just need to know the website where I type in an Artist and I can find out if their OWNED by RIAA or not. Email me at

ando.warrior@verizon.net yes I have verizon, yes I am worried about being sued.

ttp://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/news.asp
will email 2

SHUT UP little boy and I will give you a candy bar! lol

nyer82...you got mail

isp-privacy:

My thumb nail still hurts !

Swami CodeWarrior :

Loved the dream headline , as seen through your crytsal ball . And Susie Boy cries ! Who wouldn't with a name like that ? All I can say is ,"It must have been pointing inward at birth for his dad to name him Sue ". If he even has any.

RIGHTOBARE.....check your email!

I'm with r0dr0ddy. I don't think there's a whole lot more to disect and analyze here than the RIAA is just blowing smoke. Especially given that her arguments haven't actually been rejected yet.

This is just more straight lies from the mouth of the RIAA. This is hardly anything new. "Breaking the law is breaking law," "Piracy is bad for record sales," "She's already lost.."

yadda fricken yadda.

You guys do remember when they said that SBC's claims were already rejected in the Verizon case, right?

What the hell kind of authority do they think they are? Talk about complete arrogance.

"Her arguments have already been rejected!"
"SBC's arguments have already been rejected!"

Continue the assault.. futile challengers aside!

Give me a break.. my lord.

note: To anyone on my AIM buddy list - that Blaster virus infected the University Servers here. So they are allowing web access, but restricting everything else as a way to keep the net up while they fix it. Don't worry about me, my computer is fine.. I still use Win98 because I kick ass.

THATS RIGHT SHERMINATOR!!!!! DAM THE TORPEDO'S FULL SPEED AHEAD!

this makes a whole lot of sense, we have terrorists whos main objective is to kill and convert our society and all thats on these vampires have on there minds are suing little suzie for downloading her favorite song? absolutely sick in my opinion. notonly that we have these same vampires trying to erase god in particularly religion from the country.

which brings me to my point, who do you fear more these vampires or the terrorists?

thanks Rightoshare.
Sometimes I feel like this board is an oasis of sanity in a world gone insane!

LOL...you folks got me thinking about the old groups like Paul Revere and the Raiders, and yeah Dave Clarke 5.
I remember seeing Jimi Hendrix on Johnny Carson's tonight show once. If I remember correctly, he didn't have the Noel Redding or anyone, just him, his guitar, and a long cord. And I remember the first time the Who was on TV...they start smashing all the equipment...it was unheard of back then. And, LONG before KISS and Alice Cooper, was the Hello People (dressed in mime looking outfits) and the "Sensational Alex Harvey Band"
http://www.rock-photos.co.uk/sahb.htm
Geez, I just remembered they released FRAMED, 31 years ago!
Sorry for the nostalgia, but it's cool to see folks as ancient as I am....
and..lol, remember how we used
to drive the T-Rexes and Velociraptors from the caves (wink wink)...yeah, dem wuz da days!
~code

IFeelFree :

Regarding your post on 'the moral issue'. You are absolutely right about understanding the context of the issue. I have tried talking with non-users about the RIAA and their claims and most of them make the same response. "You can't do that. That's illegal. Your stealing." Most of them are oblivious to what is going on short of music pirates being sued. They only know about one side of the story. I suppose if I was in their shoes I would think the same , not knowing any more. Educating people is very crucial to gaining support for this cause , but it has to be done on a "laymans terms" level. not many people(apart from those involved ) know or understand what is really going on. I think the best way to approach any one on this is to simply start by asking them if they like music. Do they like to listen to it in their homes or cars ? Do they like to have choices in what they want to hear ? Do they want to pay for something that they will partially listen to ? This , then , opens up a whole new conversation.

Give them something to think about!

80 G's huh ? You should be able to put some more MP3's on. HAHAHA!

Burn baby burn...

CodeWarrior just to make you drool a tad, I was AT the Beatles Concert in Vancouver, BC, Canada....39 years ago today, 1964. Talk about nostalgia. Sigh! Now who's old? Tickets were $4.00 and change. Also, I found this. Sure hope there's enough bandwith for all this posting. pepe

THE BORG V. THE RIAA
By Eric de Fontenay, Editor
Mi2N's B2N, Business Net News
July 9, 2003

Who could have predicted it? Wasn't it common knowledge that file sharing would recede to the farthest edges of the Net in reaction to the RIAA's legal threats. The time-tested rule of extreme punishment as the best form of crime prevention is the cornerstone of more totalitarian regimes such as Saudi Arabia as well as the primary justification for capital punishment in the US. Seems someone forgot to explain the rules to file sharers though as p2p systems reported a surge in new users and volumes of traded files. And I'm not talking about the newer 'anonymous' systems either, but the old-guard 'monitorable' Kazaa & Morpheus.

There are only two possible explanations for this blatant inconsistency. The first is that file sharers are irrational decision makers, willing to face the risk of costly litigation rather than give up or miss out on the chance for free music. While such a degenerative effect of file sharing might appeal to industry PR types ("Warning: File sharing can make you dumb!"), a more plausible alternative explanation is that file sharers are acting in the interest of the file sharing community/movement as a whole versus as isolated & disconnected individuals. In other words, existing/prospective file sharers are tacitly colluding their actions to ensure the survival and long term prosperity of the whole.

This hypothesis assumes a few things: (i) that file sharers are conscience that the actual risk of a lawsuit is small in the sea of file sharers; (ii) that the RIAA will focus/restrict their efforts on the worst offenders; (iii) that the RIAA is not targeting downloaders which constitute the major portion of the file sharing community.

If these assumptions reveal themselves to be accurate, the most appropriate action for file sharers would be to add to their ranks and crank up the sharing. This is because that set of assumptions provides a major loophole in the RIAA's strategy that actually reduces the average file sharer's risk to nearly zero. The more members join the community and the more trading each engages in, the perceived risk is reduced further, leaving the industry with a grave credibility problem. It's akin to everyone on a 55 MPH highway going 65 MPH: they are all breaking the law, but by doing it collectively, they minimize the risk any actual enforcement. Law enforcemet eventually accepts that when the traffic as a whole goes at 65 MPH, it becomes the defacto speed limit.

The problem with the alternative - the RIAA straying from that set of assumptions - are the political ramifications that would likely result. For if the RIAA were to start suing downloaders or randomly suing individuals irrespective of the volume of files they trade, the true risk to the average trader would increase significantly as well as their incentive to exert their extensive political voice. That's why p2p companies recently formed a lobby group to help direct that political voice to the appropriate channels of government. Just imagine on the one hand say 25,000 youngsters suddenly left destitute due to copyright infringement lawsuits, and on the other, the ensuing political uproar from parents, extended family, friends, a sympathetic file sharing community led by their new lobby group, the media,... all the way up to the halls of Congress. And 25,000 is barely a dimple in the global file sharing community, leaving you with better odds of winning the lottery than getting sued.

It's a scary thought: an ever-growing community of like-minded individuals sharing a collective conscienceness - call it a hive-mind - sweeping all opposition aside in its pursuit of a single goal: to trade more & more music.



A RESPONSE: MY MONEY'S ON THE FEDERATION REBELS
By Marc Freedman
July 10, 2003

Eric,

I admire your work but must disagree on this piece.

You ask "Who could have predicted it?" [that direct consumer litigation would INCREASE file sharing]. Most anyone.

You accurately describe this consumer treatment "as a time-tested rule of extreme punishment ... the cornerstone of more totalitarian regimes."

Totalitarian: Of, relating to, being, or imposing a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed.

Here's an industry that demands total control over its product and how its used, denies civil liberties to consumers, cloaks itself in its "moral imperative", threatens all businesses that oppose it, is convicted of price fixing and cheating artists, blatantly lies, and uses its massive power to pass one-sided legislation like the DMCA (all documented at the DiaRIAA.com). In fact RIAA is better than a government. No one can vote RIAA off the island. In this drama it is RIAA which pays the part of the relentless totalitarian Borg.

Do you truly expect Americans to drop the soap and submit to such an organization?

We forget recent history all too quickly. The explosive rise of Napster and P2P was a form of civil unrest by consumers against an oppressive industry that had abused its customers (such as charging MORE for CD's that cost LESS to produce) and refused to adapt to a digital realm that its customers already embraced.

This isn't about college kids, foreign CD pirates, or some fringe group. P2P users are not some irrational mob or collusive hive mind. There are 60 million US P2P users. It's my daughter and her grandfather. This is the American public.

The market rules in our economy. And this market, the American public, was rebelling against the Borgian RIAA to fight for fairness, choice, and freedom. A rational reaction.

In response RIAA proclaimed resistance was futile and brutally tried to maintain the status quo. It is RIAA that is acting irrationally, even silly at times, ignoring the public demands of the very market it needs to survive.

Over the past few years RIAA's behavior and the industry's lame online efforts have only continued to fuel public outrage and P2P popularity. Now RIAA's direct lawsuits scream into this same raw nerve. It's not difficult to predict that the public response will be the same as it's been the past 5 years. To vote with their time, software, bandwidth, and MP3 players on the side of P2P until the industry adapts. My money's on the Federation rebels.

Copyright 2003, Marc Freedman

That's the RIAA alright. Resistance is futile! One things for sure . They are definitely going to go down screaming and clawing like two school girls in a cat fight. Hmmm ? Hope Susie boy has a good manicurist.

Well what about the radio?? They play music!! We listen..they are ways of hooking up AM/FM Radio players to record the songs to CD's! Iv'e read about it! Do the radio stations pay the artists or companies??

HMMMMMM 1964 if you were 16 you are the same age as me PEPE!

GREAT POST PEPE!
That was neat about the Beatles..
FOUR BUCKS! Geeeez.
You know, in the past three years, I've been to more concerts with my wife than I ever did in all the years before. Seen Kiss,ZZ TOP, Scorpions, Gonzo Detroit Madman Ted Nugent (shooting fiery arrows onstage), Aerosmith,David Bowie, Whang Chung,Nine Inch Nails, Skid Row, Cinderella, Poison,Winger, Faster Pussycat. Lynrd Skynrd, Flock of Seagulls, Neil Diamond, and more. And yes, I can still hear..lol!

And you know something I was thinking about? I was looking at the latest list of people the RIAA is going after (long list) and I thought, man, this site should have a LOT more posters than we have. Every one of these folks needs to be here, helping, writing congress, etc.. I'm here because I care about our rights, and I care about music, and I care about my fellow human beings, but they have a legitimate interest in the success of our movement.

Oh well..so it goes!

~code

TO ALL :

All of the news that's being posted about current events involving this CRAP campaign of the RIAA can make ones blood boil at times. I know it has mine. But you know what? The media can shovel all of the one sided manure it wants and the RIAA ( and big 5 ) can stick their noses in the air and tighten their ties and brush off their sleeves , BUT just like the ol' saying goes " It aint' over till the fat lady sings."

and this is going to be one FATTTTTT LADY ! Better sport yer earplugs!

Well I sent e-mail to sen.John McCain , its a start! this is it... Subject:
RIAA attack on Americans

To:
Sen. John McCain

August 22, 2003

Mr Senator,I understand that you will be looking into the RIAA subpoenas . I feel this is way to harsh of a penalty for American working people,Kids,and grandparents that just like music.Over 60 million Americans share on peer to peer networks,maybe its time we find a way to make this work for all sides with out suing people for what I have heard $20,000 to $150,000. When you have this hearing may I suggest both sides be heard,it sounds like the RIAA is the only one at the table. Mr Senator as your constituent I have full confidence in the way you would handle this matter. Thank you for your time and service.

LOL Are we fishing isp-privacy? I don't care, I was 14 at the time. OOOh, secrets out.

CodeWarrior. You have been to more concerts. Other than the Beatles, I caught the Dave Clark Five, Zombies, blues singer John Lee Hooker, Goose Creek Symphony in Calgary, Alta Canada. Then one gets married, has children, end of life as one knows it! But the music remains important. It's all about the music isn't it? Were running a dj company now, and we'd love nothing more than to see this thing (downloading) legalized with a program we can live with just for the sake of convenience. pepe

there is a new company out there that is looking to coordinate the defense of all those people that are getting sued... and raise money for their legal defense. www.filesharingdefense.com

Good letter azburner!

I've written to several of my so called "Reps." also. One of wich is among the idiots wanting to imprison downloaders. Shouldn't expect any more out of him , he's one of the retards who wanted to know if it was a "Hanging chad , or a Dimpled chad" -hint-hint (bet ya can't guess where I'm from.) Still, have to flood them with 'letters of concern'.

Persistance eventually gains attention.

I have another idea! When ever you logon to a chat rm, forum or play an online video game use BOYCOTT-RIAA as you username. I was playing a medal of Honor game the other night and someone had it for a name! I do believe the quickest way down will be to dry up the funds. if they can afford 100,000 $ to win a 15,000 $ case... don't you think the artist would start to question where the hell they are getting this extra money. Why aren't we (the artist)seeing more on our contracts?

Does the RIAA only pursue music downloads or can it be pictures,music videos,movies,books,game,etc.??

Oh yeah, Whitesnake and Def Leppard. The drummer with Def Leppard may have only one arm, but he drums with it like he has both! And these old guys can still rock...Since my wife is younger than me, we go see most of the hair bands from the 80s, and I grew up with Sabbath, Edgar and Johnny Winter, Joplin, Hendrix, the Doors, Savoy Brown, Steampacket, Howling Wolf, (Lady)Koko Taylor, Slim Harpo, Taj Mahal (I taught myself to play guitar listing to the old blues guys, and of course, the obligatory "Sunshine of Your Love by Cream ),Santana (to me,one of the best guitarists alive) Arlo Guthrie, Country Joe and the Fish, Mountain, Cream, Quicksiulver MS, It's A Beautiful Day, King Crimson, Doctor John, the Mad World of Arthur Brown, Atlanta Rhythm Section, Amazing Rhythm Aces, Gram Parsons, Danny O'Keefe, Stones, Beatles, the WHO, and to my mind, one of the best organist and wild musicians, the crazy Lee Michaels (with his drummer Frosty). And, you know, back then, with the Vietnam war, and the fact that those of us with long hair were hassled by cops and looked down on by the older generation, music helped lift us out of the negativity. As I was sitting there listing these groups and remembering the songs, I was smiling and it brought back a lot of fond memories. And I was wondering, thirty, forty years from now, what will the kids now remember ? Will they fondly remember 50 cent, or Busta Rhymes, or Eminem? One singer/songwriter I liked a lot was Danny O'Keefe and years later, I found his email address and started corresponding with him, and as a result, I liked his songs even better. But my first album of his, was an 8 track tape and I literally played it til it wore out. I no longer have an 8 track player, and the original album is nowehere to be found on CD or cassette, so I asked Danny if he knew where I could get one, and even HE did not know. He suggested I could look at the older music bins of different record stores. And, I know there are a lot of folks out there that are luckier and can find songs they liked that are in MP3 format. And do you think I think them downloading those songs is bad? Not one bit, because these songs mean a lot to these folks, it is part of their youth, and if they could find these songs,they would buy them in a heartbeat.
Just the thought of one of these older folks who had some of the hard to find songs in their shared folderto share with folks of the same generation, and getting busted by the bots that were violating several sections of the user agreement to get the info, makes me angry!
Sorry for using up so much space. Guess I got in too much of a nostalgic binge. Thanks for your patience one and all! Have a great evening. Tomorrow is another day to battle the forces of darkness!
~code

isp:

You are definitely addicted ! I thought the EWEE was bad. Man Alive!

Does the RIAA only pursue music downloads or can it be pictures,music videos,movies,books,games,etc.??
Please Reply!!1

Does the RIAA only pursue music downloads or can it be pictures,videos,movies,books,games,etc.??
Please Reply!!!!!!!!
I wanna know really bad!!

I had a look at the UFSDF site (filesharing defense fund) which is an awesome idea, and suggested a few times before, but one must be cautious as well, wouldn't you all agree? I'd feel better if it was an already known and trused site like the EFF or even Bill here were setting up such a program. What does everyone else have to say? pepe

Does the RIAA only pursue music downloads or can it be pictures,videos,movies,books,games,etc.??
Please Reply!!!!!!!!
I wanna know really bad!!

Someone's gotta know.

Pippille :

Right now their only concern is with copyrighted music. The MPAA ,however, might be interested in your DVD collection though. HAHAHA , just kidding.

Only music for now.

rightoshare CHECK YOUR EMAIL!!!!!

AGAIN ! why don't you just tell me here!

Codewarrior, don't go to sleep yet..check out that UFSDF site and please someone get an answer for Pippille. I think the riaa is only into music, or music related things like music for car ads, etc. Videos and movies are the mpaa (motion picture of america? is that right? .. their domain anyway. Games? Books? I don't know. It's all covered under copywrite anyway. pepe

ISP-PRIVACY:

YOU NEED TO SEND A LINK OR CUT-N-PASTE TO THIS SITE ! THEY WILL WANT TO SEE IT!
GREAT!

NO! not yet.....I will later

Thank You pepe512000 and Righttoshare!!!!!!

I gotta go, chat later.

BOYCOTT-BOYCOTT-BOYCOTT...............

Code - pls check out this site. Don't d/l. Don't buy. Merrily, merrily, merrily life is but a stream!

www.live365.com

great letter azburner!!!

Damn it. My senator gave me a form letter this afternoon referring to me as Mr...... Number one way to piss of a constituent is to call them the wrong sex when you wrote a letter to them. He gave me this bull $@#$ that the RIAA was right and whatever.

Can you believe the *W#$ on the radio today? And they want 20 bucks for one single and a bunch of other s#$#$ty songs that coundn't make it as popular?

If the RIAA is hurting for money, how come all their people are rich? Celine Dion doesn't need 40 million dollars. None of the RIAA artists need that much money. Mary Kate and Ashly don't need to be worth one billion dollars. The gap between the rich and poor is so far apart right now it is scary. I go to a prestegious university where I will get a degree to go work at Wal-Mart because no one is hiring. If I do work, 20000 dollars will be my starting salary.

150000 dollars a song is so outrageous. Viva la revolution. We need reform for our government. The little guy doesn't matter any more--if it ever did--your vote won't be counted (cough cough Bush) You are bought by a corporation the minute you are born. We need to get the word out that the RIAA has its fingers in pies everywhere.

Pippille...the RIAA goes after the songs copyrighted by the record labels it owns. They probably would also go after people using things like cover art, artists pictures,etc., unless a separate company or the artist themselves, maintains all copyright rights to their images. Movies, games, etc. would be the responsibility of the respective copyright owners.
As far as radio stations, they used to pay royalties when they play a song, I think they may have to pay some blanket copyright fee, but as far as their specific arrangements, I don't know the specifics of how they pay the labels for playing things like top hits. Did that help?

kyodylee.....yea sure....none of us will download music ever again..*cough* yep whatever

kyodylee
thanks for the link, loaded the site, will chk l8ter
~code

Yes, thank you, it did, CodeWarrior

PUFF THE MAGIC DRAGON

The sad thing here too is the law states the punishment must fit the crime. COME ON $750 to $150,000 PER SONG?????

So how is that fitting the crime? A Cd sells for around what 15 to 20 dollars for 13 to fifteen song average so thats again what 1 dollar per song average yet they think $750 PER SONG??? or more.

I could kill someone or knock over a 7-11 and get a less fine as a matter of fact for the most part you get jail time and NEVER pay any money back so if I steal say 1,000 dollars from some store I'll see some jail time but I get to keep the money.

But let me download a song and I'll pay $150,000 YA RIGHT can't get blood from a stone they make you THINK your life is ruined forever but move around a few times and they'll never find you.

Just like everything else the States aren't going to track you down to get the money. Heck as an example look at the deadbeat dad problems where some guy (not trying to pick on anyone by the way just a good example of my point) skips out on paying child support.

the state SAYS they are hunting them yet can never find them EVEN THOUGH most of them have regular jobs which means SOMEWHERE there is a tax record which gives all the info they need to get them yet the state can't find them or even get thier tax refunds if they are elligable????

THEY AREN'T LOOKING!! and thats when its even in thier interest to do so since they may be giving this woman money every month and in finding the guy they get thier money back.

Anyway the point is this being a civil matter would be up to the RIAA to find you if you just up and moved away and stopped paying your fine NO ONE will find you the State isn't going to waste its time on some private company when it never even goes after its own interests.

I have a question. Could someone get caught and sued for having about 40 downloaded files on their computer that they arent sharing?

Although I wasn't brought up in the 60's and 70's, I was raised on the music. My father was a baby boomer and I was constantly bombarded with the likes of lynyrd skynyrd, procol harum, the spencer davis group, blue oyster cult, black sabbath, peter frampton, aerosmith, van halen (with DLR and SH), kansas, toto, iron butterfly, the WHO, the guess who, ELO, REO Speedwagon, Montrose, ted nugent, grateful dead, kiss, the scorpions, beatles, monkees, the eagles, joe walsh, alice cooper, don henley, joe satriani, crosby stills and nash (w/ and w/o neil young), and a slew of other great musicians/bands. Sad to say, most of these bands are still around today. I don't like modern rock. It is too structured and force fed to us. The music industry of the 60's and 70's was tornadic. This force feeding all began in the 80's with the cardboard cut-out glam rock bands. Then came the "alternative" movement. Alternative was force fed to us, then boy bands, now angst rock. As the Meat Puppets once sang "somethings will never change, they just stand there looking backwards, half unconscience from the pain." I have a voice in this country, or so it says in the US Constitution, and my voice says "I AM FED UP WITH THE BULL S--T FORCE FEEDING!!!" I own cds/tapes/records/8-tracks of all the artists/bands mentioned above. Granted I am not of the age that most of you are, I still claim this music as my heritage. I am one for technology, just as the tape progressed into the cd, cd must move to solid state (mp3). If there was a valid and minimal fee service were I could purchase these songs, I would use it. If I want to use MY computer to listen to music that I have long since purchased/inherited, then I can do it. If they want to take me to court, I will rent a semi and wheel in all the music that I own, proving that I own valid copies of all the MP3's I've downloaded. Do I share? Yes. That is what this country was founded upon. Many years ago, the pioneers of america set up trade between themselves and with the native americans. There wasn't any handling of currency. It was a mutual trade for one fee/service for another. In fact, that was how North America was accidently discovered. Columbus looking for a better trade route to India. If it wasn't for trading, we wouldn't be here. Also, I wonder if the RIAA will go after auctioneers next. I get a lot of great music at auctions. Some of the baby boomers had a little too much fun in the 60's and 70's, for they are passing away too early. Anyways, enough of my rant. Sorry to take up so much space. Just aggravated is all.

Interesting post sonofliberty. My kids were brainwashed with 60's and 70's music as well. They still love it today. This is a very aggravating time. But as someone said, it's a changing time as well. Wonder how the first person felt when they saw the first lightbulb come on, or plugged in the first refrigerator, saw the first car driving down the road without a horse! I wonder if 20 years down the road we'll all be saying things like... remember those little silver discs we used to have to buy to put into our machines? Who knows eh. One thing we do know is that this IS a revolution and things will change because of it, and aren't we living in so very interesting times? pepe

I assume this is the same lying bastard Matt Oppenheim who said "if an independent artist feels their access to the market has been blocked they should contact us..." on PBS (I did -- no response, for the hundredth time)?

So he's in charge of the federal courts now or what? These arguments have been addressed by a federal judge? Has this been to court? Is the RIAA the police, judge and jury now?

This is so infuriating that these assholes are allowed to circumvent the entire fucking constitution with their terrorism and waste the government's time and money because they don't know how to run the music business in a profitable manner.

Even CNN said today that maybe the overpaid record execs who live in luxurious mansions should consider lowering the price of CDs becaue the gevernment has more important things to worry about than these whining greedy bastards.

Okay, that was paraphrased slightly...

I'd just like to know how these asswipes get away with lying each and every day and the media never calls them on it. Are they all just fucking stupid morons?

Sorry. I'm a little pissed off about this today.

KISS MY LOUZY UNSETTLING ASS YOU COCK SUCKING BLOOD SUCKING BASTARDZ FROM HELL!!!!!!!! I WILL NEVER BOW TO YOUR SICKNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only thing the RIAA can do is bully a tiny minority with subpeonas while issuing more rhetoric. The fact is they are only going after the most vulnerable P2P networks and only those that probably have taken NO precautions to protect themselves from the sniffers. Meanwhile there are a plethora of other places to get MP3 files and anything else under the sun (book warez, movies, whatever you want.) This is why I find the efforts of the RIAA amusingly pointless... they lost the war a long time ago. If they managed to shut down Kazaa and the FastTrack network, it would make little to no difference to the sharing of albums and songs, or anything else for that matter. Kazaa in my mind should probably die in it's present form since by all accounts is rather poorly designed. There are much more secure alternatives; the RIAA's actions will simply push people there more quickly. The day the RIAA wins this war is the day they shut off the internet.

Pippille, code, et. al., all radio stations (and web stations) are required to pay ASCAP and BMI licensing (sp?) fees before playing any music by signed artists. Most of the time, it's an annual flat fee to cover all artists. However, thanks to the cheesy record label reps who visit each and every commercial station weekly, they (the labels) pay the station to play songs by artists from their label. This method is sometimes referred to as "payola" or "pay for play".

When I worked at the local alt rock station (since bought out by the second bastard child of the airwaves, Emmis communications), the money would be slipped under the table to the operations manager. As it turns out, getting a song played on commercial radio station instantly creates a demand for the albums in record stores- which is why the label reps always "sweet talk" (bribe with money or gifts) the DJs and program managers into playing their songs as often as possible.

The playlists at commercial stations are so rigged, just remembering my involvement in the deal makes me sick to my stomach. The "all-request" hour late at night was hardly so: the playlist was created days or weeks in advance, and pre-recorded "callers" were played inbetween songs. A popular example of such fakery is total request live on the real world channel (MTV), which doesn't play requests, nor is it live.

"Payola" is considered bribery by legal standards, yet is so common it's overlooked by the people who benefit. Much like speeding on the highway- everyone does it, and cops only ticket the worst offenders. As for the ASCAP and BMI fees, they're important to the wallets of the artists, but both organizations are as bitchy as the RIAA about their copyrighted material.

To this day, I still haven't found out how the RIAA works with BMI/ASCAP.

Interesting article in Marketwatch.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B3F08CBE9%2D2416%2D42CB%2DA7FA%2D12D8D4471141%7D&siteid=mktw

to view remove everything after mktw

Justification for all you old timers...

Rod, great answer! It just goes to reinforce the notion that the music industry is rife with corruption. It's great to have people with insider knowledge who know who the industry works, and we're really lucky to have you as such a great resource.
~code

Surfside, great link and yes, for us oldtimers, it does justify what we were saying
"If you look at the latest statistics, the biggest record consumers are over 40,"-Lee Abrams, chief programming officer at XM Satellite Radio.

But then, there was this quote:
""You can't find anybody other than the rare technophile over 30 who knows how to download to an MP3 player." That of course is just not true. There are lots of tech savvy folks over 40 on this board I think (or are we just rare technophiles?)

I think that there is something going on in the movie and music industry. It's the "copy the winner" mentality which eschews true innovation in favor of doing the same thing that has been popular over again. That's been going on for a long time, but it has gotten worse and worse so now it's form over substance.
And, I think most of us older folks just cannot relate to the big think nowadays, rap/hip-hop. And I have always been fairly eclectic in my music tastes including reggae,soul,blues,"hard rock", alternative, middle of the road type stuff, and yes...shudder, even some country. The funny thing though is that most rap nowadays is being bought by white kids. My son, blond haired, fair skinned and blue eyes, listens to rap (he also owns a club/bar popular with college kids).
But, I think part of the problem my gen has w/ modern music, is that it just seems thrown together, without little heart and soul. Too much formula, but that's NOT too say the older stuff wasn't either. I heard that no less a songwriter than John Lennon was big on using a formula, repeating the hook with a mathematical formula, etc. Guess what I am saying is that music back in the 60s and 70s, was a personal statement from musicians. They were forging new ground and didn't mind being experimental, and really cared about the product and their craft. I think one thing the RIAA hates is that people can download and sample the new music, and after hearing it is crap, not buy it! Why don't all labels offer little snippets of all songs on albums for potential buyers to evaluate? Know why? They are ashamed of the product and know if people hear it before buying the holographic tape sealed jewel case, they won't shell out hard earned bucks for it.
OK..enuff of the old guy griping
~code

And like the article said, people want 2 or 3 songs, not pay 20 bucks for a bunch of other crap they don't want to listen to.

Okay, time for me to step on my schlong. Bear with me tho.
Downloading is stealing.
It is. We've all said the same thing. Most of us at one point or another have said that. We do agree that to download something that isn't yours IS stealing.
however.. put it in context.
IF you profit from it, then it's stealing. IF you sell copies, or put em on ebay on a compilation cd, or just rip copies and sell em for 5bux/ea to your friends.
Downloading in and of itself it NOT stealing? Opposing viewpoint? Sure, it's not stealing when you're just trying to rebuild the library of 50's and 60's vinyl that got lost in the housefire (personal example sort of). It's not stealing when you are just looking for that ONE song that's on "The Beavis and Butthead Experience", but not on the artists actual album.
Last I heard it wasn't a crime to share things. Like ice cream. Like air. Like opinions. The word share has so many new contextual meanings now than it used to.. maybe we should try to find a new way to talk about it? *shrug* not for me to say.
Downloading IS stealing.
IN CONTEXT.
ttmmm

Interesting thought piece Remye, and well received here.
First off, governments make laws and laws make criminals. If there were no laws, there would be no criminals. If they passed a law tomorrow saying anyone using the word "the" in a sentence, most of us would be criminals overnight.

The appropriate act is the NET Act
http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~smikes/property/net/amended.html
--------------------------------
The No Electronic Theft Act
Section 2b: Criminal Offenses
Corresponding section of PL 105-147
Corresponding section of analysis

17 USC 506 is amended to read:

(a) Criminal Infringement. - Any person who infringes a copyright willfully and either--
(1) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain; or,
(2) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1
or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more
than $1,000,
shall be punished as provided in section 2319 of title 18, United States
Code. For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction or
distribution of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be sufficient
to establish willful infringement.
______________________
Thus, the Net Act itself stipulates
that evidence that a person has reproduced, or even distributed,
such a copyrighted work, is NOT sufficient evidence of wrongdoing.

In other words, the law is supposed to ask "Did you know this was wrong and did it anyway" and "Why did you copy and distribute this?" Also, we notice the retail amount (not the 150K amount, but the RETAIL amount) of more than 1000 dollars. Now, if you had 50 CDs worth (let's say 500 songs), that would be around the 1000 mark if you rate each at 20 bucks a piece. 50 CDs worth is a lot of songs!

Thus, in both subsections 1 and 2, we see an essential element of criminal copyright infringement is the financial gain element. If folks just have MP3 files in their shared folder, and are in now way financially rewarded for making these files available, it guts the criminal copyright infringement and would act as a bar to an action under THIS provision.
Thus, if anyone under were prosecuted under this act, it is clear that if someone copied, and make available in a shared folder on a P2P network, in terms of falling under this guideline, they would have to be making available, WITHIN A 180 DAY PERIOD, copyrighted songs which have a retail value of more than 1000 dollars. Notice the 180 day period. You have to remember that as well.

Now, that's the NET act, but what of the DMCA, that 59 page long piece of excrement, what does it do and say?
Of course, this 1998 piece of garbage is a title 17 amendment, and an implementation of the globalist, new world order piece of crap called the World Intellectual Property
Organization Copyright Treaty and Performances and Phonograms Treaty,which is one of the worst pieces of feces one could find. I'll get into this later, it's early for that kind of reading.
==>>>>==================}>
~code

In context, stealing is not only taking something that does not belong to you, unlike air, but harming somebody in the process. For instance, the investors in the artist… or children that use you as a role model… what do you say to your child, that it’s OK to download somebody's work for free?

If you lost your 50s & 60s albums in a fire, whose fault is that? You should not have been smoking in bed.... If you get caught downloading those lost albums then you better be able to prove two things; 1. that you have tangible evidence that you purchased the music at one time and 2. that you are not in receipt of stolen property.

Go to http://freddiefreeloader.com to see my commercial on the subject. To me its not about the record companies its about the average Joes that work to support musicians making music for you guys to steal.

There are 2.5 billion freeloads a month and the cash flow is to a trickle and I need work. Stop the freeloading.

I do not have the years of experience to follow the trend of music first hand. My first concert was Pink Floyd, "Momentary Lapse of Reason", at the tender age of 15. I am jealous, in fact robbed of inspiration. I have inherited or dragged the net for a small stack of reel-to-reel tapes,(Hendix, Jethro Tull, Vietnam live radio, ect...), and 8 tracks,(The Who, The Beatles, Iron Butterfly, ect...), thirsting for inspiration.
The truth is that the tap is turned off. And now with the DMCA, ACCOPS, and PD&EA, ((piracy deterrence & educatation act)), the legislation reads; "Keep the inspiration turned off". Even the youngest child won't be able to freely listen to Elvis until they start looking at retirement seriously.
Why is it neccesary to make these restrictions? What purpose did that serve? By threating the majority of the population, the RIAA is even going an added step to make people cower under authority rather than shirk it. The system in place, and the people running the game are starving the people intentionally, in my humble opinion. What a "Brave New World"!

To KingAuthor

I still have my over 2000 LP's also have I don't know how many 45's Cass 8 Tracks & CD's and you are say if I download a mp3 I'm stealing from you. I don't think so. I have been overcharge for a lot of music. And if I want a copy of it in a mp3 that I'm stealing. Get real. After all it's the music companies that are cheating us. They can charge us what ever they want for CD's. But it's also our right not to buy agajn and again for the same thing. Sorry you lost my vote.

Please note-stealing is generally not a legal term. Theft, burglary, criminal copyright infringement are proper terms for illegal behavior. The civil equivalency of theft is conversion. And, I hope by mouthing off thusly "To me its not about the record companies its about the average Joes that work to support musicians making music for you guys to steal."
that you are not making criminal allegations in writing against anyone on this board, because most of us are not filesharing anyway. Making defamatory comments in writing is libel. You need work? Get a job!
Sorry, your website is LAME!
==>>>==================|>
~code

To Remye,

I totally agree with you. At this moment according to intricate letter and number of the law, "downloading is stealing".

Since this is the letter of the law, I will obey it. Further, it will justify this cause.

But I will continue to loathe the implications of these laws, and will not be spoon-fed any:

law, music, opinion, or any matter of taste by anything.

I will fight every institution that takes any step in that direction tooth and nail, and I will begin by boycotting them.

You know when I was a kid in the 70's I came up with the money to buy LP's. Musicians back then had 10 songs on the record, 9 of them was great!When I use to buy CD's in the year 2000, the musicians sold me 1 song that was great and the rest was CRAP! NOW WHO IS RIPPING OFF!

for humor sake,

It took me over half an hour to make my previous post. And I found where I said nearly the exact same thing in another post a month ago.

I guess KingAuthor,
aka
Jeffers Dodge
tazmo@gte.net
Third Planet Inc.
PO Box 49-1456
Los Angeles, California 90049
United States
3109799964
Fax 5207527495
doesn't like us. Makes me so sad, think I shall cry!

I guess KingAuthor,
aka
Jeffers Dodge
tazmo@gte.net
Third Planet Inc.
PO Box 49-1456
Los Angeles, California 90049
United States
3109799964
Fax 5207527495
doesn't like us. Makes me so sad, think I shall cry!

KINGAUTHOR Sir you have a very good point and I know where you are comming from, I 'am out of work as write. I do feel for the small guys in the music business and like always they are the ones to take the hit! For the last 30 years change such as: Deregulation of the trucking industry, airlines, utilities and so on has affected millions of Americans. Take a look at the steel industry! ask those guys about change!
I do not agree with the point you make about FREELOADERS causing the the largest dent in the music sales! Music pirates have always been and will aways be with us ! I can't tell you how many times I've been in flea markets accross the country, where your REAL freeloaders are selling bootleg cassett's and cd's ,It has always been there! Any way what are you going to do about the 3rd world countries that have no threats of lawsiuts, downloading music? The true fact is! technology has finally come to the music industry. Customers are demanding the industry to change because they see something they want! Like myself I want to be able to search an MP3 music site that has EVERY SONG I'M looking for! Then I can create MY OWN hits on one cd instead of someone else putting thier music on! So far the only site that has come close is KAZZA! I am willing to pay for music! But when I purchase it I want to be able to store it on my own computer without the threat of someone scanning my files! If i'm correct Kazza and other companies have asked to work with the music industry and be lisenced, but they refused! Read the article posted above by surfside6.....It will give you another view why the sales of music has dropped. One thing is for sure! Change will come to the music industry. History will prove you either get on the technology train or get left in the dust!

In reply to:

M1
Date: August 22, 2003 @ 3:45 PM
The files had to have been shared, that's the only way a user can list someone else's files isn't it?

If she tries to grab publicity by lying, the RIAA might decide not to settle and destroy her in court.

And an elaboration on the reply by:
XxShadowxX
Date: August 22, 2003 @ 4:08 PM
M1 - don't be so sure. If she can prove she took some kind of technological measure to keep her files from being shared,[...]

On how such a technological measure can easily be accomplished. All you need to do is to deny the user launching the application the rights to read those files. A file that can't be read can't be copied, wich is what d/l and u/l are, but over a network.

Any it can be done easily Unix or any Unixish system, by using command:
chmod 330 targetfile
as an example...

I'd be really surprised if you couldn't do it in windows, NT/win2000/XP.
But don't ask me how

The files would of course still be visible.

Btw, you can get Kazaa to run on a lot of Unixish sytems using wine - winehq.com

His site shows he has TOOOOOO much time on his hands. He should take up decorative whittling,...on his leg!
-bulkeraser

I agree with Code...where does this creature come off saying something like"
"making music for you guys to steal."
He's calling us criminals and doesn't know a damn one of us! I don't friggin' download or upload ANY music files, so the guys a bald faced liar if he is directing that comment at me!
-bulk
"Making blanks out of 1s and zeros."

Stardaemon

I have found that a lot of people don't know anything about how to use Kazaa. Or any other program like it.

Also a lot of people don't know about the DMCA. I didn't for one until I found this sight. They say it was on TV and Radio. Never saw it on TV never heard it on Radio. So she may have not know it was being shared. If she was only using the folder for her songs she never saw the download part and never downloaded a song theirs a good chance she didn't know anything was going on. She could have been using it just for music.

Pippille said:".....yea sure....none of us will download music ever again..*cough* yep whatever"

I never said nothing about "forever," do what you want no one here's stopping you. But ALOT of people here are not buying AND not downloading RIAA artists to boycott. And as Code was reminiscing, it shows it's really hard not to "listen" at all. If you have broadband, streaming is a viable alternative, for some, at least for now.


r0dr0ddy - Thank you for your post concerning stations and payola. It was very enlightening. The site I posted has both commercial and "homebrew" stations streaming. Anyone can set up a station on the site. But thanks to your post, I will only stream the homebrews.


KingAuthor - are you paying royalties to King Arthur & Queen Guenevere's descendants for stealing and creating an unauthorized derivative name? Yea, yea, I know copyright time limit expired now. But if folks like RIAA had their way, copyrights would NEVER expire. Is that the world you want to live in?

gilbd:

?
All I did was point out that it is a quite easy to have files visible in your shared folder, when you know how, and at the same time denying anyone to download them.

I think your point is valid, though. There are a lot of ignorent people out there. The scary part is that I am probably one of them, but ignorant something else...

lol..takes a lot of intestinal fortitude for someone to enter a board, allege everyone there is a thief, and run away like a little girl!
This cat even looks like a LOOOOOSER on his site. Ok, now, new topic. Where I live, they are having a pool party and hired a band (its a once a year thing), They hire different bands some years, but they always do the same thing, they play old 70s and 80s rock. Word for word, note for note of copyrighted tunes. I don't think the copyright owners have given them express permission to cover their songs in live, PAID performances, so is THIS a violation of copyright?

Also, everyone that is using the following words and saying anyone here is guilty of this, please list the federal criminal code that defines such things as :
1) stealing- where is this defined in federal law using the word "stealing"
2)music piracy- where is this defined in the code. the only piracy i've found is the same one CW talked about, referring to real pirates and the act deals with murder on the high seas.

If there is a specific law that defines these acts USING those terms, please link to it. If not, I suggest we should not continue using terms that may not apply. I don't believe Jane Doe is going to be charged with "piracy", or with "stealing"!
-bulkeraser
"Making blanks of 1s and zeros"

Is cheating your own customers for High Priced cd's STEALING FROM THEM or do they have a softer term for it?

as a final note, when you go to Mr. Dodge's personal loser page, and try to see his resume, it lists him as a "Media Consultant" and if anyone wants him to "consult" with them about their media,its' 1318 1/2 Amerherst Ave., West Lake, CA 90025
310-826-2298. Now PLEASE, don't everyone at once hire this fine young man! ....LOL....what a L000000000SER
this weinie is. Bet he ran and called Cary-Sue after his one shot wonder post and told Cary "Yeah, I called em all thiefs, ha ha ha"
-B U L K E R A S E R
"making blanks out of 1s and zeros"

Sorry, correction its/
Jeffers M. Dodge, and its "West LA"
NOT West Lake...wouldn't want to get his address wrong...
1318 1/2 Amerherst Ave., West Los Angeles, CA 90025
310-826-2298 OK NOW, HANDS? HOW MANY NEED THIS KIND OF "MEDIA CONSULTING"?
GUESS NOT MANY, HE CLAIMS HE "NEEDS WORK"...GUESS THEY AREN'T BREAKING DOWN YOUR DOOR TO HIRE YOU "MR.DODGE"!

kyodylee , like Bulkeraser, I checked out the guys site, he's obviously a shill for the music industry or, shamelessly, trying to garner favor with Cary and the boyz by his "one man crusade against filesharing".
I have little patience with that kind.
Indepedent's know that the RIAA is a corrupt and horrible bunch. They should embrace the internet, not try to screw a cap on it. If this KingAuthor idiot is part and parcel of the RIAA, he should be aware that things are going to get a lot tighter, and his work will trickle away and hopefully, he and the rest of the RIAA will go out of business, sooner rather than later!
=>>>>===============|>
-code

Stardaemon

Same here i am one of them hahaha at least i'm learning now. Just reading what ppl or saying here has me up to date on a lot. LOL to you just puting another point on the table.

jeffers m dodge = quack. plain and simple. look buddy. I own a lot of albums. some are the very same duplicates from vinyl to 8-track to cassette to cd. i also own hundreds of singles on 45's. if you want to accuse me of stealing, it is america and you entitled to your point of view. Now it is my turn, you can go back and tell cary "i'll sue you" sherman that we're not buying. We are sick of the garbage that is released in todays music market. I haven't bought a cd released by your association in 5 years, and it is not because of P2P. It is because I have 20+ coasters and I don't need anymore. If you take me to court, I will win. There are 60 million people using P2P. There is an estimated 282 million people in this country. My chances are great that the jury panel will have at least 4 people on it. And in my city's demographic, it will probably be greater. You brand me as a pirate. I like the term pioneer. I hope you are not branding the likes of Christopher Columbus, Lewis and Clark, and Jedediah Smith as pirates. You should take a look at the history of America. It is based on the concept of trade. Whether it was the spice trade between India and Europe or the Fur Trade in Utah, we are all here because of trade. As a side note, I bought a paper shredder today. I am hoping that my subpeona arrives soon. I am waiting to try it out.

HIGH FIVE SonOfLiberty !!!
I think the "Dodge Boy" left his website hoping the RIAA will see it and hire him as a "medai consultant".
Not only is he a moron, but he's a coward. Notice he didn't stick around to have an active dialog with us.
Makes me hate the RIAA even more!
~code

I don't think he is very good at his job. A consultant is suppose to try and work things out between the two parties right. I think he needs to get a real job.

See, here's the obvious problem with Cary-Sue, and little Mr. Dodge's allegations about theft and "stealing". If the RIAA was affirmatively aware of over 1000 cases of theft or as they so ignorantly put it "stealing", then, isn't it their corporate and civic duty to turn their evidence over, or at least inform the law enforcement authorities and let them handle it? The problem(s) which prevent them from doing it that way are:
1) They KNOW it is not legally theft or "stealing", and thus, they would be charged with making a false report.
2) Even if there WERE actual cases of theft, the RIAA collected evidence in an improper way, they violated about 75 % of all user agreements and interefered with the function of a private network (actionable under title 18, unauthorized access to stored electronic communications, since they fraudulently misrepresented themselves as human users when they were robot programs, and they know that law enforcement would never have been able legally (without using the Patriot Act) to violate people's rights in the manner the RIAA has.
So, if you have over 1000 acts of theft and "stealing" and "piracy", why aren't you reporting all this to law enforcement ?
and so it goes...
~code

But, is their theft of music? Here is something from zeropaid.com about a guy who released music BEFORE it was released...

"Authorities warn the internet does not provide anonymity A man who has admitted illegally distributing songs on the internet before they were released in shops faces up to five years in prison. Federal prosecutors said Mark Shumaker, 21, of Florida, who headed the Apocalypse Crew group, has admitted infringing copyright laws. The Apocalypse Crew obtained pre-release copies of CDs from music industry workers including DJs and magazine employees, according to the US attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. It would then release the music on to the internet which would filter down to file-sharing services such as Kazaa and Morpheus before going on general release to the public.

Shumaker faces a maximum jail sentence of five years and a fine of $250,000 (£158,590) at a sentencing hearing on 7 November. He was also accused of operating an invitation-only website where members could secretly discuss their activities. He was caught as part of Operation Buccaneer, a worldwide investigation into music piracy on the internet. US attorney Paul McNulty said this conviction was a warning to those who believed that the internet provided anonymity for criminal activities. The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), which has spearheaded a campaign targeting music pirates, praised Shumaker's conviction. "The theft of music on the internet is a serious crime, and this action shows that the Justice Department means business," RIAA President Cary Sherman said. "

CodeWarrior:

While I sympathize, I have to point out that the burden of proof is much higher in criminal cases ("beyond a reasonable doubt") than in civil case ("preponderance of the evidence"). The RIAA would probably prefer that law enforcement does their dirty work for them but they know that the chance of losing a criminal case is high. Also, as you point out, the matter of violating user agreements could be a problem. Besides, the RIAA only wants to intimidate. They're hoping a few thousand lawsuits with big money settlements will scare the bejeezus out of file sharers. They're wrong.

In the case of Schumaker, this is disturbing since it appears that lawmakers are bringing a criminal case against someone who (apparently) didn't profit from the distribution. However, since the material was pre-release it could be argued that it was stolen. Also, there was a conspiracy involved since the pre-release CS were obtained from "music industry workers including DJs and magazine employees".

A quote from another article on the same subject:

"...John G. Malcolm, deputy assistant attorney general for the Justice Department's criminal division, said money wasn't motivating the groups as much as the thrill of the chase...
Malcolm said the thresholds for bringing criminal charges against a file sharer 'are sometimes difficult to meet.' Nevertheless, he said, the department wouldn't hesitate to prosecute people if it gathered the right evidence."

This suggests the Justice Department will get involved with music copyright infringement cases if sufficiently strong evidence is available. In the case of the average user, that threshold is probably not met. Besides, the Justice Department must have better things to do than chase after teenagers downloading songs. Still, the fact that the Justice Department is helping the RIAA in copyright infringement case at all (as opposed to piracy cases in which profit is the motive) is very disturbing.

IFeelFree, as usual, you and I are in total agreement, and you are very correct about what you said. Operation Buccaneer was a criminal investigation from the git go, and I think little Shemey baby just stuck his two bits in to get associated with the whole issue for extra scare factor. Buccaneer was also aimed at distribution channels, i.e. groups that were releasing material before general release, so I think there were breech of security issues.
And of course, as you point out, beyond a reasonable doubt is much higher than a "preponderance" as in civil cases, in which the scales have to be just tipped ever so much in the direction of the plaintiff.
But, to me, it gets to the motive of the RIAA. If they REALLY were after scaring people, criminal charges would be much more of a deterrent than civil trials.
But, something that we both can agree on, is there is a need for a change in the laws. On the board, I think you and I probably delve into the legal aspects more than most, and the more you look into the "authorities" behind what they are doing, the more you become afraid that the elimination of ALL our freedoms could be the logial outcome of government moving in the direction they are moving.
Toward that end, we need a national referendum to repeal the DMCA. I'm on other email lists about the DMCA, and most people think there is almost NO chance that such a repeal will happen. But, if things continue with DMCA, DRM, etc., we are getting put in a corner of only being able to use our computers for what other people want us to. Right now, I have to keep my security tied down so tight to keep intruders out, that I get really tired of it all. Sometimes, I feel like just cutting the connection to the Net and just using my box like an island unto itself. But that's what "they" want us to do.
Kinda depressed about it now.
Really thank you for the great discussion and as always, great thoughts my friend. Surely, there is something we can do to halt the tide of fascism.
Anyway, thanks!

~code

This reminds me of that 60s protest phrase, "They've got the guns. We've got the numbers." (Wasn't that from a Doors song?) Well, from what I've read, pressure on the government from public opposition did limit the duration and scale of Vietnam war. So we, the public, do have considerable power. With the RIAA we have added leverage: BOYCOTT!

CodeWarrior:

I appreciate your comments as well. I pretty much agree with everything you write and I enjoy your thought-provoking posts. Keep the faith.

I occasionally read pro-RIAA news articles just to get another perspective. What I notice is that the reader feedback from such articles tends to be strongly anti-RIAA. There are a lot of people in the U.S. who feel deeply about this issue and the larger ones concerning the erosion of our freedoms. Where is this country headed? Sometimes I worry, but all we can do is try to speak the truth.

There were some comments here regarding the "downloading is stealing" issue.
Apparently there are some folks who would stop getting paid once music becomes completely free.
I say: FUCK THEM. If they can't get into a serious business, they shouldn't beg me for money. Begging is NOT a valid business.
I never asked them to make music into an industry.
Today all of our music needs can be covered by a tiny percentage of hobby musicians, who make a living in real jobs.
There is no longer need for the giant music marketing machine which the RIAA represented.

So the RIAA and all their trolls can just bend over and suck on it, for all I care.

SPICA, and everyone, we've had two riaa trolls in one day...first one was KingAuthor, now we've got SlimChance calling us thieves in the MIT Thread.
Looks like Cary-Sue is getting desperate!

Exactly.

Capitalism in my view is just a sick way to rule to world.

EVERYONE:

Get on your P2P client and download some speeches by NOAM CHOMSKY 99% or so of them will not even be copyrighted). LISTEN. THINK. PONDER. CHANGE. ACT.

I was saying "exactly to this quote but it did not show up:

>>>>I think everyone is getting the feeling that these issues go deeper than stupid music trading. This is about a government that is run amok driven by corporate control.

You know, with all the hype that the RIAA is generating with P2P systems, what about those people who buy a mass quantity of blank CD's, copy CD's verbatim and give those copies to their friends? Is it going to come down to the RIAA policing every CD blank that is sold and/or manufactured as well? Have they even thought of the complicity of users "sharing" songs the way "cassette tape" brought sharing songs during the 80's?

If I'm not mistaken, if it weren't for the pioneering venture of Sony and Phillips, the whole recording industry would have collapsed in the 80's because Vinyl was on the way out and people were already "trading" tapes.

I remember buy blank cassette tapes at low cost to record high quality vinyl pressings - which was the "in" thing to do. Instead of the music industry collapsing under it's own weight from pre-recorded cassettes being too expensive, the CD saved them. Instead of the industry collapsing from it's own CD technology, why didn't it ever think to evolve to take advantage of new technology like it did over 20 years ago? It's amazing how 2 decades ago, they re-invented themselves without endangering their "investments" yet with digital technology moving into a far "easier" shared medium, they'd rather risk alienating a whole class of consumers than trying to cater to them.

I'm not up on how the DMCA provision on copyrighting effects digital copying and *manual* distribution, but wouldn't that be as large of a concern for the RIAA besides the P2P issue?

Ok, I think I'm rambling, but I hope I got my point across, no?

I've tried both version of this app. And I hated it. I don't see what's so special about it. I couldn't even download the songs I was looking for.

KingArthur: It was my CAR that burned, and I was in the process of moving, had about half my LP collection in it. It was parked in a parking lot someone smashed into it. BOOM. However..
I'm not about blaming anyone. Fault isn't the issue here. My point in that post was to play devils advo for a bit, to put the entire word play into some sort of perspective.
Your posts are mostly right on, and you make some very valid points. Thanks for reading mine, and for commenting. I've always welcomed the opinions of others to enlighten me when mine were skewed left or right.
Code also makes a valid point when he says that most of us are NOT downloading. I've not downloaded ANYTHING in about 6 months. Not because I'm "afraid" of anyone. I've not had time. No one's fault again, just me being busy.
It's NOT about blame. It's not about "Joe Sixpack" and the other lackeys who may or may not have helped produce a song.
It's about the music. Quality v. Quantity.
Thanks again for saying what's on your mind. That's what makes forums like these great!
ttmmm

Isn't it a little bit arrogant to declare a judicial decision before ANY TRIAL HAS EVEN BEGUN?? What happened to innocent until proven guilty...that does not apply to civil cases as well?

I wonder why the ISP's would have to save the IP address information. If they didn't log the history of IP address usage then there would be no information available.

Foopah:

You bring up an interesting point about kids copying CDs and handing out to friends. I wonder how much of the drop in CD sales we're seeing is due to just that. With the proliferation in CD burners and blank CDs, this has to be making a big impact on CD sales. As I understand it, copy protection schemes have not been too successful and are capable of being defeated. If all this is true then the RIAA's current campaign of intimidation is a waste of time. The recording industry is truly screwed. Shut down all P2P sites, it won't make any difference. The only hope would be hardware DRM, but the public won't go for it. Who's going to buy a computer or CD player with all kinds of stupid restrictions attached to it?

boltbot:
The ISPs are required by law to log IP address information for each user, for a specified period of time. One year, I think.

not really on the subject , but in the time it has taken me to read this thread, Ihave been "pinged" 157 times .
I'm going off line now and look at the logs. If these pings are from the RIAA's lackeys I will let you know.

i think the RIAA should use the American Flag for it's logo.. I mean the RIAA has already purchased American Politics so why the hell not ya know... someday i'm going to start a company and sue everybody in the country after i buy off American gov't.. it's the American way baby!! fuck America and the RIAA..!!!

i'd like to fund some terrorist orginization to bomb the RIAA headquarters... With a country like this who cares.. it's fucked and greedy.. i'm suprised corporate America didn't come up with a scheme to make money off of the 9/11 bombings.. morals are out the window in this country and money is king...

Happy America? you're destroying your youth.. i'm unpatriotic and proud of it.. i'm not going to be supportive of a country that neglects basic human needs over it's own greed... join the military..haha... fight for a country that screws me.. fuck that.. if i did fight for a war and came home alive i could return to a job serving hamburgers to corporate pigs for 5 dollars and hour after they rape me on taxes... give me a fucking break..!

CEO's making millions upon millions of dollars while workers get laid off, pay cuts, and no health care... Fuck this country!

as a veteran reader, but new poster on this wonderful site I would like to point out to KingAuthor, if it has not already happened, that which is painfully obvious to anyone who reads the boards here.
The ones who create the music that the RIAA 'owns' do NOT see thier share of the profits. The RIAA in fact, steals from the 'artists' they purport to support.
Justin-I am a veteran, and proud of it. Its not this country its the government-how did the saying go?
"I love my country, but I fear my government..."

~time flies~