With an estimated 60,000,000 desperate criminals using p2p apps, it would take a couple of thousand years, or so, to get all of them into court.

But that's really what the RIAA subpoenas are all about.

Cary-Sue Sherman and the rest of the RIAA's TARA (truth-and-reality adjustment) team have figured out a fail-safe way to ensure job security not only for themselves, but for their successors.

With all those wicked file-sharers to deal with, they'll be at it forever.

AND THIS JUST IN ....... (heh)

iH8RIAA (see way down on 'Comments') has done the math:

"At the current rate of 75 ill-gained subpoenas a day, assuming that all subpoena'd users shut down file sharing, and asumming that the filesharing community is over 60,000,000 users, it will take about 2197.8021978021978021978021978022 years before nail em' all succeeds, and that is also assuming that the community doent get bigger."

hehe hehe hehe hahahahahahhahaha!

True, so true, but then it's not their fault that they are self centered, it's the parrent's fault.....

The RIAA is going to over load the f'ing court system, then real criminals will get away scott free, because they had no trial or room in jail because of the RIAA BS. The American people should rise up and relise that the RIAA is wasting our Tax money by takeing so many people to court.

and then make it illegal for the RIAA to sue more than 1 person/ company/ household/ family a decade. then it would keep the RIAA busiy 'tell they go bankrupt!

Actually, I think the lawsuits are just being used to suppress file sharing and tie the RIAA over until Digital Rights Management (DRM) becomes implemented over the next few years. After DRM, the RIAA won't need lawsuits. Control of our computers will taken away from us. Every program you run, every document or picture you download, will have to be "approved". The battle will be over. We will have lost big time.

I hope I'm just being paranoid. I also hope there are enough clever programmers and engineers out there who will devise a way around DRM. Otherwise, we're screwed.

u r n0t being paran0id Ifeelfree!
~code

some ways around DRM, easy...
1. use linux
2. use XP pro (don't update except to sp1)
3. Don't use the internet (well that's no fun )

I see DRM just being a bigger scale version of copy protected CD's. It'll be annoying at first, but the "security" will just crumble away.

And in the meantime, i see no problem just useing the computer I currently own.

Plus imagine, some senator being sent a picture from his(or her) wife, but can't even download that. Then the shit would hit the fan and changes would have to be made.

opps, ment wife (or husband)

"mtekk"
Just use linux?
Yes I agree and I'm a luser as well.
But, the current growing concerns with the liscensing issue surrounding linux, and even though its not at that point yet, still if the linux community doesn't come together and fight against these concerns linux(as a desktop OS)will fall by the way side. And that in a nutshell is what there trying to do.
Linux(opensource)has proved to be competitive, very reliable alternate OS.
They(Microsoft and others)are threatened by this.

SuSe, as much as it probably is the most user friendly linux distribution. Its also the one with the weakest backbone, meaning, they would be one of the first distributions that would stray.

ORRIN HATCH STRIKES AGAIN...
FROM NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
"WASHINGTON - Attorney General John Ashcroft is hitting the road to rally support for the Victory Act, which would further expand his powers to go after Al Qaeda and narcoterrorists, the Daily News has learned.
Ashcroft will starting pushing the Vital Interdiction of Criminal Terrorist Organizations Act later this month in a 10-day, 20-state Victory tour that includes a stop in New York.

But the nation's top cop is facing tough opposition from critics on both the right and left, who fear Ashcroft is eroding civil rights.

The Justice Department's reach was vastly increased by Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks with the Patriot Act.

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) is expected to introduce the Victory Act next month. If passed, the feds would be allowed to:
Clamp down on Arab hawala transactions, where cash exchanged in an honor system has been funneled to terrorists.

Get business records without a court order in terrorism probes and delay notification.

Track wireless communications with a roving warrant."

You guys don't get it. The DRM will be hard-wired onto the friggin' motherboard! You can't get around it! Run LINUX, whatever, doesn't matter:

http://www.you.com.au/news/1219.htm

It's already happening:

"Intel intends to include the [DRM] technology in the Prescott chip design, which will succeed the Pentium 4 as the Santa Clara, Calif., company's flagship PC chip in the second half of 2003."

The good news, if there is any, is that there is considerable public opposition. Hopefully, people will be smart enough to resist it. If noone buys there stinkin' computers, they may have to re-think.

Will the newly configured hardware even run Linux?

Hadn't thought of that until now.

Guess I better go out and buy some older mobos and procs now, before they get scarce.

IFeelFree, "Paul Otellini, Intel's president, said the chip maker would include no copyright protections in LaGrande, but he acknowledged that digital publishers could use the technology with software programs such as Palladium to create their own. "

sounds like he is saying that there requires software to work with the hardware for the whole process to work.
Like the software determines what features of the software it want's to use...could be wrong though

meant software determines which parts of hardware, sorry

da-gimp:

Yes, you can run linux. You just won't be able to download any content that isn't "certified". With each generation of PC chips you will probably lose more and more control over your computer. That appears to be the plan. First start out by restricting activities that most people consider illegal, in particular, unauthorized downloading/sharing of copyrighted material. As time goes by the restrictions become more draconian. For example, you won't run any program that isn't certified by the software company that made it. It's horrible.

drumdrumdrum:

Yes, for now. It's going to be a gradual roll-out of DRM technologies. What they're working toward is complete hard-wired control that can't be bypassed by an software.

does anyone know if sun microsystems are in on this?

IFeelFree:
You hit the nail right on the head.
Its a crying shame too.
Having the approval to download whatever ever I want and when I want will be completely restricted. If that isn't communisum I don't know what is.

drumdrumdrum:

From what I've read Intel, AMD, and all the other major chip producers have expressed their intention to get on board. Intel is just the first to start making it available. I can't remember about Sun Microsystems. I'll have to find the article...

Throw it(article link)up when you do.

Time to get the old slot mobo out again and buy up some socket boards that aren't yet affected by the DRM.
Just bought a Nforce2 from Soltek I'm good there. I would think most current strand of mobo's would be okay.
But by the end of this year of the first of next year maybe an entirely different matter.

I sure as hell hope the DRM doesn't pass (it most likely will), but ah, if only those riaa punks would let it be. The RIAAs plan of going after individual users up until the DRM is passed is really stupid. They should just wait a while and leave us p2p users alone.

Here's a more recent article:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25852.html

They're using all sorts of propaganda about "insuring privacy", "preventing spam", "Controls your information after you send it", etc.

CaptainCupa...

This is more than the RIAA. All of the entertainment industry wants it. Software companies want it. Publishers want it. The government probably wants it.

Now we have to add computers to the list of things we boycott!

Looks like Apple, Cisco, and Sun Microsystems are on board too:

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-982467.html?tag=fd_top

That's it, i'm keeping a backup linux copy incase i have to go... underground.

Here's a good quote from the novel "Life Line" by the science fiction writer Robert Heinlein:

"There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute or common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back."

These RIAA dicks will fall.

United we stand........

Yep, I see where were heading and its not good for this country. They are getting it done in the name of national or homeland security. Its been something they have been working on meaning to do for sometime and 9-11, gave them the golden door of opportunity to accelerated the overall process. Many of these issue and concerns where are and have been discussing at this site.

How is that possible?
They prayed on the simple and unlearned minds of many Americans, and used a time of crisis to work to their advantage. We need this(Patriot Act)to preserve our countrys security. And of course, what Americans wouldn't agree to a safer land and the preserving of our freedom. They hooked lined and sinkered many American's with little if any effort at all. Because that which is really important, issues the matter and affect our daily lives was/are hidden down in the Patriot Act.

This is all the result of 9-11 people. They cleverly snuck some crap in with the Patriot Act that affects us all, not just terrorists. But good honest civil law abiding citizens are affected as well. And the RIAA are the biggest crooks in the bunch and the entertainment industry and software companies will be following behind them. Again, in the name senstionalism, fear and security these things are getting done.
We need to fight and stand against this, big time.

"Knowledge is power" people, we need to be informed and get involved or we don't have a fighting chance.

Our only hope is that the public rejects it. Already there has been resistance but the software/PC industries are being very sneaky about the way they're introducing it. A little at a time. The other problem is that so many computers are purchased by corporations. They don't mind DRM. They probably support it. With such a guaranteed base of PC buyers, the average home PC user may have no other option in a few years.

I'm trying real hard to find something here to be optimistic about but, I don't know...public resistance is our best hope, I suppose.

"some ways around DRM, easy...
1. use linux"

Yep. Getting around DRM requires the following: Adjusting to a better OS while consequentally putting Microsoft out of business in the process.

There is NO almighty power out there that can force us to be controlled. People choose to be controlled, and then choose to bitch. Don't bitch, just have your friend toss your MS Windows cd's up into the air while you shotgun them into pieces.

Then figure out a way to go about your life with all of your liberties in tact.

Hint: Microsoft does not promote retaining our liberties (imagine that).

Linux rocks.
It's free for download, it's 40+ bucks (that's right, not $200) to buy at the store if you *want*.

Go get it.

IFeelFree - don't worry about DRM. Unless DRM suddenly becomes both platform (OS - Win, Linux, etc) and hardware independent, and the public embraces this technology (read: accepts it, either by choice or by force), it will never be used everywhere.

For example - if some sort of DRM is hard coded to the Pentium 5 (f.k.a Prescott) this November, the new AMD chips would have to be able to use the same technology. Would 2 competing companies be willing to develop/share technology for a common purpose? Not likely...

DRM is nothing more than the leftovers of the SDMI (Secure Digital Music Initiative). DRM, like its older brother SDMI, is going to fail - miserably.

Furthermore - how many of you actually remember hearing about the SDMI? (Or how electronics companies actually started adding SDMI compatibility to mp3 players, thinking SDMI would work and catch on?)

Last, but not least - on a hardware level, DRM is legally impossible.
Why? Because in order to embed DRM support to physical hardware, there has to be some sort of policeware installed, to ensure it hasn't been tampered with.

Policeware, however, violates just about every privacy policy in the book...

Some aren't understanding how DRM will implemented.
It will be implemented already into the mobo. Installing any preferred OS(sytem software)has nothing to do with it. It will already be in the mobo. All other hardware and software will eventually be compatible and recognize it and utilize its purposes silently in the background. Then when you attempt to downloaded something/anything that conflicts with its restrictions. You will be alerted to delete it or your PC will showdown. Chances are if you don't comply(delete it)your PC will become a piece of useless furniture.

IFeelFree:
As you and I both know, its one thing to come here to inform others and vent our feelings. BUT, to get enough people of all ages and cultures to get involved and fight against these things is entirely another whole ball game.
They got to see this as enough of a concern to get involved. Like yourself, I hope many do or else America is heading down a very wrong road.
Can't let or allow any organization, institution, agency, corporation, business and etc. have that much power over the people. It's very unconstitutional and any body with a little bit of common sense knows its a violation.

I hope so XxShadowxX, I your right bro.

what i don't understand about this whole thing why is the music sharing a big deal? its not more different than someone like me who createds a FHL using team logos, names, and other copyright material. i believe the basic of the copyright is, your not supposed to distribute or share with others copyrighted material like putting up a logo for others to view and to not to profit. i mean how many people breaks copyright everyday. from xeroxing a page to recording off a radio and distributing to someone else. you and i are not profiting off the music, no more than i or anyone else profits of the use of team logos or other copyrighted material. the reason i believe the riaa is turing this in to a big issue is because, they saw new tech and ran scared. this would be the equivalent of the NHL seeing FHLs and fan sites, run scared and start sueing the millions of people that have fan sites and fhls. sure you woudl say well thats absurd, why sue the people that you profit from? well thats exactly whats going on here.

now if us millions of people were profiting off the music, then i would say, you know what the riaa is correct in suing people the artist should be profiting not you. but none of us profits, most of us are buying the cds anyways except for the boycotters.

XxShadowxX:

It is happening already to various degrees in recent and planned versions of Windows OS software. Fortunately, the release of Intel's LaGrande chip design is still several years away. AMD, Cisco, Apple, and Sun Microsystems have stated their intention of incorporating DRM as well.

When implemented in PC hardware, they won't need policeware. Initially, this hardware will be an adjunct that is installed on the motherboard by the manufacturer. The next phase calls for the technology to be part of the actual CPU chip design and motherboard-BIOS, thus further making its removal virtually impossible by the end-user.

In essence, hardware will be permanently embedded in every PC that cannot be removed, or circumvented. It allows the operating system to monitor, control, and report every aspect of the computer's use, thereby allowing a particular computer to be branded for identification and registration purposes for the entire life of the machine.

Any software that wishes to communicate with a TCPA-compliant system will have to meet strict guidelines that specify who is a trusted system. The computer must also satisfy the DRM that are part of the standard. (These specifications necessarily include the potential ability to refuse to run files that
are specifically disallowed by a
host server (which the system, must be allowed to contact prior to any content being accessed).

It would also (apparently by design) effectively eliminate open-source operating systems (such as Linux) since they could not function under both the TCPA standard and the open-source GPL the license that governs open-source software development).

Our best hope is the lack of public acceptance. Let's hope that the consumer rejects this assault on our freedom.

wlfhcommishjava:

It's a big deal because the content industry (music, movies, publishers, software, etc.) believes they are losing a huge amount of revenue due to copyright infringement and they want to stop it any way they can. Personally, I think they're over-reacting and not being very creative in dealing with the problem. Also, they're afraid to give up any control over their content.

Dear GOD!

Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic. It appears that hard-wired DRM (at least in it's most draconian form) is probably years away, if it's ever implemented. What concerns me in the short term are the forced automatic updates to Windows that could install DRM against my will. If that happens I'll have to go to Linux. Of course, I have a lot of software that runs under windows so I'll probably have to have one computer running windows and the other running Linux - a pain in the arse.

Ok they better not force people to buy computers with drm cuz i just got a new one that runs all my games fine so if this computer is banned from the internet or somethin cuz it doesnt have drm, im just gonna stop buying computers and just use my large collection of games on this computer to last my lifetime =)

>With all those wicked file-sharers to >deal with, they'll be at it forever.

Don't you mean "forever minus a day?"

SUGGESTION :

DO NOT THROW OUT OLD PARTS OR EQUIPMENT.

That Pentium II or III will run windows 2000 or linux for quite a while. Just add more ram, update the hardrives , processors, etc.

AND AVOID MS MEDIA PLAYER 9 +

WINDUX.com -


Any volunteers?

My fic slotA board and my classic athlon 900mhz and my single stick of crucial 128megs of PC133 runs 2000 wonderfully.

is windux like lindows?

My fic slotA board and my classic athlon 900mhz and my single stick of crucial 128megs of PC133 runs 2000 wonderfully. OS? Keep all your OS around. These are important and useful tools to around when necessary.
I've got both 98SE and 2000 and have several different linux distributions. Yet to get XP pro edition but it's on the to do list.

EVERYONE SAVE YOUR OLD STUFF!!!!!! LETS KEEP P2P UP!!!!!!!!

heh, if we keep p2p up, the riaa may eventually have to give up.

to me its all about control...not money.. RIAA and the labels want control of this new system of delivering music......thats the reason they ingnored Napster when Napster offered to pay... it wasnt money.. they want to control every aspect of the music industy so no can make money on music except them and so bands would still have to rely on getting signed just make it..

as it is now bands are more and more of a position to make it on thier own than with a label.. and it scares the hell out of them

just my two cents

Here's an interesting site that's offering an anonymous proxy service:

http://anonip.com/#

They say:
"A N O N I P allows the user to traverse the Internet anonymously, across all ports and protocols. The only question that you need to ask is 'Do I want to be UNKNOWN ...'"

It looks like it's $1.95 per month and will be available next Monday (8/11). This might worth considering if you're worried about file sharing. Any thoughts?

They also say

"ANONIP is a new service that allows surfers to traverse the Internet anonymously. The service utilizes strategically placed proxy servers and network load balancers to randomly route IP traffic through one or more proxy servers before reaching the traffic's final destination, thus leaving the surfer's identity anonymous. Subscribers can use the ANONIP service with their existing software, including web browsers, email clients, FTP clients, etc."

I think technically they can't offer it explicitly for hiding your ISP while file sharing as that would be illegal. However, it sounds like it would.

http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3492869,00.html
Nikki Hemming video of interview on TechTV

Folks, this stuff has been in the works for quite a while. Once you hardwire chips and motherboards to enforce DRM, doesn't matter if you run Linux,Lindows,OS X (Jaguar for Mac),BeOS, Solaris,WIn XP, Longhorn,Palladium,whatever, you're screwed. At one point in my million year span, I worked for one of the biggest computer makers and sellers worldwide. They were TOTALLY in bed with Micro$oft...if Bill G. said jump, they said how high...and they bragged that M$ used their boxes (computers) exclusively in Redmond. What you see unfolding is a combined effort of a consortium of computer makers, software makers, and the government.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look around and see that there is an effort to turn everything into digital. Once everything you do gets imported into a digital format, it is easy to track,store,manipulate, and manage. All this is about power, about managing the lives of Americans, and being able to snoop on them to make sure they are not behaving outside the box. Already, I would be leary of buying a new box because, the new boxes have Windows "Media Edition" loaded from the factory...when you see "Media Edition" thnk DRM. Media Player 9 already has some of that snoop and poop soft DRM imbedded.

But already, if you are running automatic updates, what info is going to redmond about what you have installed. Check this out:
"Windows Update spies on your XP box and sends information
about your installed software back to the MSFT Death Star.
Best of all, this was discovered by sniffing the "secure"
SSL protocol that MSFT uses to communicate. How? By
exploiting an undocumented API in MSFT's own system.

Evidence obtained by German hardware site tecChannel
suggests a list of software installed on an XP machine is
sent to Microsoft when users run Windows Update. When
patches are downloaded, a few kilobytes of data are sent in
the opposite direction over a secure SSL channel. Because
the data is encrypted a simple packet sniffer can't be used
to see what this data contains. However tecChannel's tecDUMP
utility takes advantage of an undocumented WinInet API,
enabling an examination of the data before it becomes
encrypted. According to tecChannel, the information sent to
Microsoft includes details of all the software installed in
a machine, not only Microsoft applications."
http://www.securityfocus.com/news/2746
gives us a little more...
By John Leyden, The Register Feb 28 2003 7:59AM

Evidence obtained by German hardware site tecChannel suggests a list of software installed on an XP machine is sent to Microsoft when users run Windows Update. When patches are downloaded, a few kilobytes of data are sent in the opposite direction over a secure SSL channel. Because the data is encrypted a simple packet sniffer can't be used to see what this data contains. However tecChannel's tecDUMP utility takes advantage of an undocumented WinInet API, enabling an examination of the data before it becomes encrypted. According to tecChannel, the information sent to Microsoft includes details of all the software installed in a machine, not only Microsoft applications. The latest version of Windows Update Privacy Statement (which dates from last October) states: "Windows Update must collect a certain amount of configuration information from your computer". This configuration information includes OS version number, IE version number and "version numbers of other software for which Windows Update provides updates" along with plug and play ID numbers and regional settings. But there's no mention of collecting data on software from other vendors running on a machine. And this software can't be updated using Windows Update. So why is Microsoft collecting this data? "

Also, notice how new phones have that little "feature" so you can be tracked anywhere you take your phone...oh...it's a safety feature right? Notice how the little icon on your phone screen that is for this "feature" is like a gun sight with you in the crosshairs>?

I'm not very optimistic about the DRM deal. And, as I was reading the posts, I was thinking, what a sorry state of affairs that we are in, that we pay good money for the computers, good money for broadband, good money for electricity to run it, good money for the software on the machines...and yet, we are skulking around like frightened kids trying to figure out new ways to hide our IP address. We are NOT the fucking criminals brothers and sisters...but we have let the criminals run roughshod. We've lost congress for now. But, we have two weapons, and they are like multigiga ton weapons...the vote and the dollar.
Computer sales have fallen in the last five years to the point that various companies have gone out of business. Compaq hooked up with HP. I advocate not buying new boxes ('puters) for a bit, and then, when the sales start dropping...let 'em know WHY we aren't buying their shit..tell em, I own the computer, and I tell IT what to do. I'll be damned if I let redmond or any other arsehole tell me what I can run on my box. I still have some 486s and a 386 loaded with ancient Windows. I also have an old mac running system 6 or 7. If I have to, I'll just run my text editing programs and screw everyting else. Windows XP and Office are too bloated anyway. You used to get Word 2.o on floppy disks to install. I just think we are victims of incrementalization...you know, the deal about not being able to cook a live frog by dropping him into boiling water right off...but if you drop him in warm water and SLOWLY increase the temp, you can cook him? Well, that's what has been going on...we had Windows "Activation" and if you changed "too many hardware components" you had to reactivate or it wouldn't run...just cranking up the pot a few degrees...heading us toward DRM...

Now, it's kinda depressing. We can't buy music, we can't buy new computers...well, what's the alternative. We can't call up Billy G. and say..Hey Bill, please take that DRM crap out of the code. Or call up AMD, or other chip makers and ask them pretty please with sugar not to install DRM implementation.

Right now, as we speak, they are fusing satan to the mother board, making beelzebub part of the bios, and Big Brother is running Quality Control.
~code

I don't know where palladium is going to end up, but we won't have much choice. Hopefully, MS will screw that up just like they do everything else.

The average citizen won't have a clue, but they'll find out really quick when their brand spanking new whiz-bang machine craps the bed on them because they tried to do something unauthorized with it.

How happy they will be when that brand new 1500 dollar box becomes just that....a box. Man, that's gonna suck.

Sure, we can use our old stuff for a while, and we can use Linux, but they'll shut that off too. One of those "upgrade or no access" deals.

In the grand scheme of things, music and movies won't be shit in a few years anyway, and none of us wil be in any kind of mood to buy or share any of it.
Maybe we won't even have access to the technology. Talk about shooting themselves in the foot, huh?

The only real power we ultimately have is not to spend our money. If file sharing disappears, we still won't be buying. At least I won't. I'm fed up with it all.

I don't have to buy music, see movies, or buy new equipment with fritz chips. Sure, I won't have access to the net, or even new software, but they're going to kill whatever makes it useful anyway.

Greed sucks, and the lust for power just compounds it. Those assholes ruin everything, and they're going to ruin it for themselves, too. They're just too stupid to see it.

LOL, just about makes ya wanna join a militia, doesn't it?

Code, I'm freaking out here. You and I typed just about the same thoughts at the same time.

How wild is that?

Hey, you guys talking about Linux. I downloaded the latest updated version of Mandrake 9.1 and put it back on my box.

I like it, they fixed a LOT of things. It's very smooth, and the GUI is better integrated now.

I'll see how it works out, but so far, so good.

Oh yeah, Open Office rocks. I haven't found any MSoffice apps it hasn't run yet.

The best part? It's all FREE. And legal. I already replaced MSoffce on my main machine, and put OpenOffice on the rest.

Screw you Billy G.

hehe, at least for now, until the ink dries on your contract with Satan.

Note to those code layers out there, any chance of resurrecting some of the older operating systems? Like DR dos or IBM's old operating system and updating it? They probably do not have the crap the newer o/s have.

great minds think alike Average

It's all about market control. If they can knock all the indies off the Internet, the only way to reach the public is through them -- Again.

Ain't gonna happen.

I've been watching the letters at Congress.org. One thing is clear...your average Joe is pretty upset with the way the country is being run. Some folks are so mad that they really say what they think..I'd be scared to write some of the stuff they are writing. I've also noticed a lot of people calling for an investigation into the non profit status of the RIAA, given all the money they have shelled out for lobbying and all..it certainly does seem to be a need for this kind of scrutiny into their business practices.

Check out this Interview on Tech TV:
http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3492869,00.html

I am starting to feel a little overwhelmed with this bullshit. stopping the RIAA is starting to seem like a calkwalk now.

there was a movie that made fun of microsoft called antitrust, some what relevant to what's going on.

i am a drummer and a comp sci major, so this gets personal for me on many levels. When anyone says, it gets easier for indie's to make it on their own, they are completely right. even a few years ago going to a studio was my only option, now i can just record everything on my machine.

But what happens if i put some of my music on my website as a marketing tool, will the DRM stop them from downloading it?, or stop them from giving it to their friends (which would save me lots of bandwidth)? if you ask me, that is as anti-competitive as you can get.

mabye i'll just have to name them .txt files and have everyone rename them after downloading

A comment on pay for music websites. Courtesy of Tech TV.

Sure, some people will try these sites, and some will even come back again and again to download more and more songs. To fill a massive hard-drive player like an iPod, I'd need to spend about $5,000 on new music. Though the industry is banking on -- and says it needs -- lots of big spenders, I don't know who's going to pony up that kind of cash when waiting in the wings is the next free-and-secret swapping service released from some offshoot of KaZaA.

Codewarrior:

Thanks for a very good post.
Not to get all Biblical or spiritual and I'm sure all be flamed big time for this, and my intentions aren't to offend. So, please don't misunderstand me.
All this digitalizing to control/mon itor is an early distant look if you will, at a period of time coming spoken of in the Bible called "The Great Tribulation."

Ifeelfree

by that same token, can't the NHL or anyother professional league say, because of drop in sales the poeple using the logos and copyrighted material is costing them money and that we are pirating copyrighted material claiming that they are not being compensated for using copyrighted material.

what worries me is, if the whole copyright issue keeps being pushed, a person like my self could be sued for violations of copright material by having a FHL or a fansite.

i guess im thankfull the professional leagues arent as greedy and stupid as the RIAA.

i mean if the RIAA can sue millions of people for copyright violations, why can't sports leagues jump on the bandwagon and sue millions of people for copyright violations on the same token.

Righton, I have no doubt whatsoever this is all a setup for a system to allow central monitoring amd control of the entire planet.

And there is only one reason for all that control to be centralized: so one entity can run things.

There you have it, the antichrist.

Technology exists for embedded smart chips in dogs already, so it's ready for humans as well.

The RIAA is a boil on the backside of the antichrist, they'll be gone one day.

The other stuff should give all of us pause to consider what is REALLY important in our lives.

We could all make a very good moral case not to buy from the RIAA if filesharing never even existed.

Well, we have no idea what the timeline is, so we watch and wait.

I have a feeling if the riaa pushes tracking chip designs people will protest. If privacy on a PERSONAL computer is taken, people will revolt and take this further than court. Personally, I see people committing murder purposely to make other people listen to them. This is not fantasy, this is reality. Time to kill privacy violation.

Well, though I have not deleted I have stopped sharing RIAA albums on the net. I also noticed that some of the bands I stopped sharing are no longer being promoted and are all but forgotten. These bands are casualties of the record industry. People like me gave them extra life and if it were not for us they would be erased from existance. Thanks to the RIAA they now do not exist and never have. They are not being promoted and they are not making new albums and if the RIAA gets their way, these bands dont even exits on the net. Gone. I hope they enjoy having thier work locked up forever.

Righton...you're right on target. My parents were ministers, so the notions of the tribulation and Last Days, or endtimes, are not foreign to me, and until the last year or two, I did not really believe it could happen, but this is playing out now. In the Christian bible, it talks about that in that time, you would not be able to buy or sell without the mark of the Beast, 666. And, I keep abreast of the latest news, and the indications are that that is exactly what is coming. The RFID chip for example. Then there are the embedded chips like Digital Angel. It's kinda funny, H G Wells writes about the future and was dismissed because such fanciful things could supposedly, "never exist" Then, people that said that the gov was spying on them and watching everything they did, according to the DSM III and IV, were diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenics...but now,it is the same person who is aware of just these things. Look at the brain reading machine that DARPA is investing in, which could not only read your thoughts, but put thoughts in your head.
http://www.charleston.net/stories/080503/wor_05darpa.shtml
"The $24 million enterprise called Brain Machine Interfaces is developing technology that promises to directly read thoughts from a living brain -- and even instill thoughts as well.
The research, some of which is being done at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, is already surprisingly advanced. Monkeys in a laboratory can control the movement of a robotic arm using only their thoughts. And last year scientists in New York announced they could control the skittering motions of a rat by implanting electrodes in its brain, steering it around the lab floor as if it were a radio-controlled toy car."

And, you know, even if a person is an atheist, the sheer evil that is developing should be clear to anyone that is able to understand the implications of the current developments, and folks, this is only the stuff that we can learn about that has been released into the public domain, we aren't aware of what we aren't aware of...the stuff that we know about is scary enough, but the stuff that they are keeping under wraps or in development, would scare our socks off.
AverageConsumer, you and me and Righton are but a few of what I assure you, are people around this country who are suddenly wiping the sleep out of our eyes and realizing that this train is not heading where we thought it was supposed to go, it is a hellbound, runaway train with a madman in the engineer spot.
And,ever since I was a kid, I have made it a practice to stop occasionally and mentally challenge different ideas or philosophies I hold, because I always think that an unchallenged belief is never as strong as one that has been challenged and stood the test. Anyway, I stopped for a second the other day and said, wait a sec, am I being paranoid? And then, I found that article on the brain machine and remembered several months ago...maybe a year ago) where the president was asking companies to develop a machine to predict behavior and read minds. Even if you tell yourself "NO NO NO, this can't be so!", you scour the net, watch TV, and there will be another release of news that points to the fact that, YES, this is where it's going. Just this "KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER" program that is mandated to go into effect by law prior to Oct. 1,2003 is frightening enough. Each credit reporting or financial institution you have dealings with is mandated by law to come up with a profile of each customer with all their important identifying info (name,address,etc)and monitor all your financial transactions, and look for "suspicious" activity. And, let's say you start taking a lot of money out of your own account, without telling YOU, they are to contact the Feds about you. This is scary stuff people.
Again, as drumdrumdrum said, the RIAA thing and downloading files is like a dot in a much larger picture. And, maybe Righton and AverageConsumer, maybe our function on this board is to wake the others up to the context within which the RIAA deal is occuring.

I have particularly quit listening to major news lately when they refused to cover our boycott or mention it. This Kobe Bryant intrigue is being shoved down our throats in a constant drumbeat...ostensibly to drown out other news they don't want us to think about. I never even heard of this guy before all this, and don't care about him now. This is an alleged rape case, like probably thousands that go on in a week's time.
The "President" has said he is going to sign the newest gun ban thing that would ban semi-automatic shotguns for Pete's sake. These aren't machine guns or "street sweepers", these are regular semi-auto shotguns!

If the average person were to start collecting the news articles about what the government here and other countries are doing (just cutting them out of the paper or cutting and pasting from a website)...just collecting them for a month, and then, just sat down and read them all at once, I honestly believe they would get this cold , sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach. I actually saw videotape of a FEMA seminar that police and firemen were attending, where the speaker was telling them that Christians and the founding fathers were terrorists, and that Christians would like and do or saying anything for their "cause" and were to be considered dangerous. That's not second hand, I saw the tape (I think one of the firemen surreptiously recorded it).

OK, that's my rant for this morning.
I am praying for everyone and for our country..just hope I am not one of the "left behind".
Peace/out
~code

OK...just so this post will not be totally off topic...Down with the RIAA/DMCA...now...
Here's a sample of the "NEWS" that CNN thinks we should preoccupy our minds with:
"Gary Coleman on California ballot
Schwarzenegger enters California governor's race
NBC picks actress to play Jessica Lynch
Dial-a-dolphin on your mobile
Fast, one-shot Ebola vaccine developed
(wonder what all is in this vaccine?)
World's first cloned horse born."
Nuff Said...
~code

OK...back on target...just a plea to everyone on the board...please, if you haven't written a letter to your reps and senator at Congress.org, do it today or next week...or next month. It's more effective if they get mail on this issue everyday. And, you don't have to write just to the one that represents you. You can write any of them...just go to the letters to leaders section, and if you see a rep you haven't written (no sense writing to hatch,conyers, or berman of course, since the receipt for them is probably in sherman's pocket)write them. You don't have to use any of the letters that you copy and paste. Its actually better if you can, to write your own and use your own feelings and angst to power it. Just try to correct your spelling, don't be insulting , threatening, or abusive. Ask for their help in this issue. There is currently an excellent letter showing someone's true concerns from someone in Louisiana, titled...Do We The People Matter Anymore? And make sure that you allow them to post your letters so others can see that they are not alone in writing...and if your letter is good, I've seen that other people who read yours, will often copy it and send it on to their reps.

Please do this. It doesn't cost anything if you use their email.
Here's a few topics...
Repeal the DMCA
Concerns over Digital Rights Management
Call for Investigation of the Non Profit Status of the RIAA
and any other concerns you have!

ok..sorry for hoggin' so much space.
thanks for listening and fighting the evil out there !
~code

hey, it looks lie the TCPA has been replaced by the TCG, with even more members

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/0,39020645,2133194,00.htm

"The Trusted Computing Group (TCG), announced on Tuesday, will license and market security hardware and software technology that they intend to be integrated into every computing platform, from PCs and PDAs to mobile phones. "

sounds more like the movie AntiTrust everyday

code, i will write ALL of my congressmen tonight for sure

thanks drumdrumdrum..you RULE!
here's some new info....
"RIAA Sues MIT, Seeks Name of Music Sharer
By Keith J. Winstein
NEWS AND FEATURES DIRECTOR

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V123/N30/30riaa.30n.html

The Recording Industry Association of America sued MIT on Friday,
seeking to require the Institute to identify a network user alleged to
have illegally offered hundreds of copyrighted music recordings for
download on the Internet.

The suit against MIT, and three similar suits against Boston College,
came after the two universities balked on procedural grounds at the
RIAA’s formal requests under the 1998 federal Digital Millennium
Copyright Act, or DMCA, to identify the network users.

The RIAA, a trade group of major record labels, has sent out over 900
of the formal requests, known as section 512 subpoenas, to Internet
service providers in the last month as part of a campaign to sue those
who illegally trade recordings using the popular KaZaA and Grokster
networks.

The aggressive practices reflect a change in tactics for the RIAA,
which has not previously sued individual users for trading music
recordings online. “We’re going to sue anyone who is infringing our
copyrights,” said Amy Weiss, an RIAA spokeswoman. “We’re going to sue
anybody who is file trading.”

Under the copyright act, users sued in such a case could be liable for
hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages.

RIAA requests user of TDC IP

The RIAA in early July ordered MIT to reveal the name of the user who,
as “crazyface,” “was offering hundreds of copyrighted works to the
world-at-large” on the KaZaA system at 9:29 a.m. on June 27 from the
Internet Protocol address 18.237.0.70, the RIAA wrote in court papers.

The address, assigned by MIT to the Theta Delta Chi fraternity, is
assigned to individual users automatically and dynamically by a
computer run by the fraternity, said James D. Bruce, the vice
president for information systems, so MIT could not initially identify
the user or even the computer’s owner.

But MIT decided against telling the RIAA that it is unable to identify
the user because the fraternity, not MIT, has assigned the address to
an individual user, Bruce said.

Instead, MIT asked TDC to provide it with logs from the computer,
known as a DHCP server, that had assigned the address to a particular
computer.

The DMCA requires Internet service providers to identify a computer’s
user based on such a request “to the extent such information is
available to the service provider.”

“The conversation that we had with TDC was, ‘If you provide us the
logs, then we can act legitimately,’” Bruce said.

“‘If you do not provide us the logs, then ... once we get a legitimate
subpoena the only recourse we have is to point to you,’” Bruce
recalled MIT saying to TDC.

Under those circumstances, “they made the choice to give us the logs,”
Bruce said.

It is unclear whether those logs go back far enough to identify the
person whose computer held the disputed IP address on June 27.

TDC’s officers did not return repeated requests for comment.

MIT to require FSILGs to give logs

As a result of the matter, MIT will revise its agreements with
fraternities, sororities, and independent living groups -- for whom
MIT provides free high-speed Internet access -- “to say that they will
need to provide us the logs on reasonable demand,” Bruce said.

MIT is also “investigating the creation of explicit policies and
agreements” to govern whether FSILGs should be able to run their own
DHCP servers and assign their own IP addresses in the future, and
considering establishing “clearly defined consequences” for failing to
keep records up-to-date of what users control what addresses, wrote
Timothy J. McGovern, a senior project manager for Information Systems.
“The details are still being worked out,” he wrote.

The changes and proposed changes to make MIT able to better identify
users of its IP addresses met with some concern. “It seems unlikely
that these changes will benefit MIT in its educational or research
mission, or significantly improve the MIT computing infrastructure,”
wrote Richard S. Tibbetts G, an officer of the Student Information
Processing Board.

“I believe that the decision of whether we should change the
fundamental architecture of our network so we can always know who’s
using it, which may, by the way, add significant burden, ... that’s a
decision the community has to make,” said Jeffrey I. Schiller ’79,
MIT’s network manager. “I think that’s a community decision and should
be made that way,” he said.

MIT, RIAA sue each other

MIT has not yet responded to the RIAA subpoena, delivered in early
July, because MIT believes the subpoena was issued through the wrong
court and did not give MIT enough time to inform the network user.

As part of the DMCA’s subpoena procedure, a copyright owner must
obtain the signature of a clerk of a federal district court. MIT and
Boston College have asserted in motions filed in Boston against the
RIAA that the court whose clerk signed the RIAA’s subpoenas -- the
federal district court in Washington, D.C. -- did not have
jurisdiction over the schools in Massachusetts, making the subpoenas
invalid.

Because the federal Family Education Rights and Privacy Act, known as
FERPA, requires that a school only release student “education records”
in response to a “lawfully issued subpoena,” MIT and BC argue they are
barred from voluntarily releasing a student’s name in response to
subpoenas they say are invalid, and that any subpoena must give the
schools enough time -- a few days -- to notify a student that their
records will be disclosed and give the student a chance to contest the
release of information.

In a response to the MIT and BC motions in Boston, and in four
separate lawsuits filed in Washington against the schools, the RIAA
argues that the DMCA grants the Washington court jurisdiction to issue
a subpoena to the schools, that students have had plenty of time to be
notified, and that the names of students with particular IP addresses
are not “education records” under FERPA.

MIT’s argument that the names of students corresponding to IP
addresses may constitute “education records” appears inconsistent with
Information Systems’ practice, which is to allow anyone at MIT to see
the owner of a dormitory IP address through the “stella” tool on
Athena.

“We probably should look at that,” Bruce said. “No one has raised that
question.”

Expert says cases, DMCA unclear

Neither side’s arguments are obviously compelling, said Michael J.
Remington, a Washington attorney who was chief counsel to the
intellectual property subcommittee of the House of Representatives
judiciary committee for most of the 1980s.

“There seem to be good issues on both sides,” he said. Congress, in
enacting the DMCA in 1998, did not clearly specify whether the RIAA’s
interpretation -- that any court may sign a subpoena -- or MIT’s
interpretation -- that the RIAA must go to a service provider’s local
court -- is correct, he said.

“If Congress doesn’t pass laws with enough clarity,” he said, these
issues have to be solved by litigation.

“What bothers me about decision-making by litigation is that it takes
lots of money, it’s fairly slow, it’s subject to appeal, and it
doesn’t create nationwide uniformity,” he said.

MIT promises to comply

MIT has emphasized that it will release the name of the user -- if MIT
in fact has the name of the user -- if the RIAA sends MIT a subpoena
signed by the clerk of the federal district court in Boston giving MIT
enough time to respond.

“MIT believes in protecting the privacy of students, and we don’t
yield information willy-nilly, but the bottom line is ... we can’t
necessarily protect the identities of our students when they engage in
illegal file sharing,” Schiller said.

“Nobody is above the law, whether they’re a student or a grandparent,”
Weiss, the RIAA spokeswoman, said. “If they’re breaking the law,
they’re breaking the law.”

“My advice to people who are using KaZaA for sharing copyrighted files
is, ‘Now would be a good time to stop,’” Schiller said.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This story was published on Wednesday, August 6, 2003. "

Code, I've been thinking along those lines for quite some time now, and I no longer look forward to each new advance in technology, because it all seems to take a darker and darker direction.

It stopped being about making our lives better a while ago. Now it's all about manipulation and control.

This boycott and dissatisfaction with the RIAA may help wake a few people up, but I'm not real hopeful.

It's no longer about the music. It was at some obscure point, but now it's larger and darker.

Even 9/11 was a convenient excuse to clamp down on our liberties even further. Do I think the govt caused it? I guess I'll never know the story behind it all. No matter. I'm not a raging conspiracy theorist. Yet.

We really don't have any control over this, but we have to keep plugging.

I agree with you, I'll probably use my present hardware until it won't pass muster with the thought police, then it looks like I'll have to stick to word processing and simple stuff offline.

I may not be able to stop it, but I don't have to roll over and cooperate like a robot, either. At least not until they bring me in for 'reorientation'. At that point, it won't matter anyway.

Kobe Bryant? Who cares about this fool and whether his adulterous activity was consensual or not? I agree with you.

I never thought of myself as a Luddite, but I'm not so sure they were completely wrong.

this is probably old news (July 15)for most folks..but i just found it...
Metallica has sued a Canadian band (Unfaith) for using TWO CHORDS...E and F (I am not making this shit up)>http://www1.scoopthis.com/411/met_uf/stc_met_uf_mtv.htm
""People are going to get on our case again for this, but try to see it from our point of view just once," stated Metallica's Lars Ulrich. "We're not saying we own those two chords, individually - that would be ridiculous. We're just saying that in that specific order, people have grown to associate E, F with our music."

Metallica filed a trademark infringement suit against the indie group at the US district court for central California on Monday. According to the drummer, the continued use of the two chords causes "confusion, deception and mistake in the minds of the public".
-Lars...and from their lawyer...
"It's just a matter of a band having the right to protect the chords it uses. I couldn't start up my own soft drink company using the exact same formula as Coca-Cola." — Jill Pietrini, Metallica's lawyer

GEEZ LOUISE...better not be walking around humming their tunes...Seems like to me...that Metallica should change their name to "Weregonnasueyourassfornoreason"
~code

code, i think that turned out to be a hoax

http://launch.yahoo.com/read/news.asp?contentID=214232

"It turns out Metallica does have a sense of humor. The band is well-known for their willingness to take legal action when they feel they've been crossed. But, when a bogus news story about the band suing an unknown Canadian band, Unfaith, for using the guitar chords "E" and "F" recently made the rounds, the band was amused."

As for file sharing: look, guys, these people are deadly serious, even to the point of physically coming to your house. I think that's a real possibility not too far down the line.

All the more reason to avoid any business with the RIAA altogether.
With each new victory, they will get bolder and bolder.

Personally, I think they're on the verge of being out of control now. The standoff with MIT is a petty little thing about jurisdictions. The RIAA is too arrogant to go to Boston to get a 'correct' subpoena, and they want MIT to jump through all the hoops.

All MIT can do at this point is stand their ground on jurisdiction, and wait until the RIAA blinks.

thanx drumdrumdrum..it did sound preposterous, but so does a company suing thousands of its customers...
thanks for the headups.
AverageConsumer...me and you, as usual, totally agree bRO!

I'm new here, and I have a question: If someone pays for their satelite (sp) service, and they tape music from the satelite radio included in the subscription package, and/or burn that music to a cd and play it in their car or make copies of that cd for friends, is that considered illegal?

I believe it would be ghosthouse.
If you buy the CD and make copies for friends it is illegal.

Now...more crazy news...
Big Brother is instituting "THE MATRIX"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21872-2003Aug5.html
"Police in Florida are creating a counterterrorism database designed to give law enforcement agencies around the country a powerful new tool to analyze billions of records about both criminals and ordinary Americans.

Organizers said the system, dubbed Matrix, enables investigators to find patterns and links among people and events faster than ever before, combining police records with commercially available collections of personal information about most American adults. It would let authorities, for instance, instantly find the name and address of every brown-haired owner of a red Ford pickup truck in a 20-mile radius of a suspicious event. "
and...it seems Ashcroft is trying to FORCE judges to give maximum time to defendants...check this crazy crap out...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25892-2003Aug6.html

"Ashcroft Orders Tally Of Lighter Sentences
Critics Say He Wants 'Blacklist' of Judges By Edward Walsh and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, August 7, 2003; Page A01


Attorney General John D. Ashcroft has ordered U.S. attorneys across the country to become much more aggressive in reporting to the Justice Department cases in which federal judges impose lighter sentences than called for in sentencing guidelines. "
~code

At the current rate of 75 ill-gained subpoenas a day, assuming that all subpoena'd users shut down file sharing, and asumming that the filesharing community is over 60,000,000 users, it will take about 2197.8021978021978021978021978022 years before nail em' all succeeds, and that is also assuming that the community doent get bigger.

I H8 ASHCROFT

Well, Code, this might be a good thing.

If they start messing with federal judges and making them angry, they might just go belly up and start letting people off just to get even.

What ARE these people thinking?
Is it me, or does the pace of this stuff seem to be picking up?

A point that may be in our favor: these judges and attorneys have families like we do, and sooner or later, this is gonna affect them, too.

I have been reading post on this site for a few weeks now and I agree whole heartedly with alot that is being said. I have found that alot of people on this site are very smart (code, righton, average, bulk ... etc) and know what is really going on in the world. I feel that this is not just about downloading music files ( to me who cares about that) it is about our rights and freedoms being taken away from us. By the riaa bypassing our 4th ammendment rights and using the DMCA in away that it was not intended to be used.

I am a Christian man and I truely believe that all that is going on is a way to give the anti-christ ultimate power when he decides to show up on the world stage. Believe me folks he is alive right now and just waiting for the opportunity to strike.

But don't be worried or have fear (2 Timothy 1:7) for we have a King who is on our side and He will defeat the evil of this world. His Name is King Jesus and HE is watching and will take care of all those who abuse the power that they have to oppress the people of this world.

Just remember, everything that is going on is foretold in the book of Revelations.

Just my two cents and beliefs. I just had to get that off my chest.

I have written my Senators and Congressmen on the issue of the riaa terrorist network. Hope someone in gov't is listening.

The only thing evil needs to triumph is for good people to do nothing

If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything.

Peace Brothers & Sisters

great usename! For God so loved the world...
We're glad to have you onboard John and thank you for all your kind words...
And I believe (not to get too preachy) that this is a spiritual war as well as a physical,economic,and political one, and we need to fight evil on every level, which also means we need the prayers of everyone both for our ability to keep up the good fight, and to work against the powers in high places that would destroy us...
John316...remember, the prayers of the righteous availeth much...
Peace to you as well my friend...
and God Bless You
~code

by the way John316...please excuse my occasional cursing...it is certainly not meant to offend anyone..I just get so worked up over the loss of freedom and the evil that is going on..but that is no excuse for my profanity...and i will try to extirpate some of my more outrageous words...but hopefull without eviscerating content...We need to have a board that kids can come to and express their concerns over this issue as well!
Peace/Liberty/Freedom
~code

Me too, Code. I was sitting here thinking the same thing. I need to behave myself, especially since I just sent a bunch of my son's friends to this site.

Somebody else on another thread accused me of mind reading...............

LOL

I appreciate the reminder.

Awh, where art thou Faith?
My friend, your surrounded by more brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus then you think.
This Sunday my congregation will be hearing a message from Revelation.
Its the sign of the times folks, all of this are reminders that the Bible is true and that the Rapture is at hand.
Whoever said Christian are intelligent?
We mostly certainly we watch and pay attention to current events more so than others. Why? Prophecy my friend, seeing prophecy being fullfilled right before our very eyes.

what else can I add but AMEN!
~code

what else can I add but AMEN!
~code

Let's keep in mind that things like this have been going on since before we were born. I'm from Generation X and it seems like things in the 80s were tougher than they are now. Also, I'm a Christian(converting to Catholic Faith). Let's not be quick to say that the elementary shinanigans of the RIAA is part of a Biblical prophacy. I got saved in 1979, and have been hearing about the end-of-the-world ever since. I believe, as Jesus said, to watch for signs and wonders. But no man knows the hour or the day. How many beloved Christians thought September 11th was the end of the world, or a sign of Christ's return? How many believed the same thing in WWII durning Hitler's rein. Look at it like this: I was walking down the street one day with my wife back in, I think, 1999-2000. We came across a street lamp post with an old sign stuck to it that said, "Jesus Will Return in 1992," and then the name of the church. I turned to my wife and said, "How many people did this church mislead?" The fact is, we all need to be praying if we plan on making this a better country. We need to put God back in the schools. We need to educate everyone -- politicians and students alike... Just my opinion. I understand if you disagree with me. Remember, Jesus said, "Follow me," not your local pastor and his church.

ghosthouse, I appreciate your comments as well. To try to draw all this together, please bear with me.
For some time now, our nation has been getting lost...and by that, I am not using the religious term of being far from God (though many would say that as well). As someone who was around in the 60s, many of my generation were trying to point out the need for freedom of speech, equality,the ability to express our individuality...you have to remember in the 50s, guys all looked the same..white shirt,skinny black tie, Whites had more rights (the way it was seen in the south) than blacks,short hair, usually no facial hair, and general intolerance of people being different. I had long hair back then and though I have never smoke or drank or used recreational drugs, was always being pulled over and hassled by the cops...much like the blacks and hispanics were. The 70s were a transition period and the 80s were me, me , me...but also, the emphasis was on making money...much as you could...and the high ideals and goals of the 60s were all but lost. Long hair became "unfashionable"...but, as we started down the road that money is most important..there was also the relaxation of the need for kids to get a more rounded education...there was more of a push toward preparing you just to make money...MBAs were big then...Once you get someone into the mode of chasing the almighty dollar, and doing or saying whatever it takes to get hired and keep your job...you start people down the road we find ourselves. It says in the Bible that it is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. Companies began just focussing on doing whatever it took to produce profit, or at the very least, a good bottom line and quarterly statement to please stockholders. This led to Enron, WorldCom, and how many more. The character Gordon )"Greed is Good" Gecko, captured the zeitgeist.

Like you ghosthouse, I have heard people preaching the end of the world for decades. Heck, people were saying this in the 1700s and 1800s...and there have been various apocalyptic movements over the years.

It's amazing to me that around 2000 years ago, writers in the Bible were predicting something that has not really been technically feasible til now to do.

Now, I'm as honest as I can be with you. I am not here to evangelize or to convert. While that may be a fine calling, I recognize that this board is for everyone to participate, and I don't want to exclude or marginalize anyone who may not be religious at all...because the issues we discuss, affect atheist and Christian, Taoist and Buddhist, Muslim and Mormon alike.

I am really beginning to believe that this may be heading us toward the events predicted in Revelation by John on the Isle of Patmos.

But, whether it is the antichrist, or just very evil fatcats in the music industry and their associates in government, we have a very real interest in what is happening. For those of us who have children, grown or still growing, we don't want our kids to grow up in the kind of world this is quickly becoming.

I want our kids to have freedom of speech, the right to life,liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. After all, the constitution writers talking about preserving the rights of liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

But, what is going to happen if we just do nothing? I recall that stirring speech by William Wallace in Braveheart. We are some of the people that did not choose the blue pill...and with awakening, comes responsibility to act in a way to oppose tyranny. "When in the course of human events..." is as true today as 227 years ago.

I don't want to wake up in a sci fi nightmare 5 years from now. I don't want to feel cameras watching me 24/7....I don't want some government lackey listening to every word I say, or tracking every dollar I draw from the bank...and I don't want to be afraid to type these words!

We are now, unfortunately, beginning to live in fear...all this talk about hiding your IP and stuff..it's fear driven...and nowadays, being concerned with privacy and security is not paranoid...there are evil forces after you...something at least 1000 people would now agree with.

I have posted long enough, and apologies for that...but I guess I am saying this...this movement is open to the Christian as well as the atheist.
Shackles don't look different for the unbeliever than they do for the Jew.

We must ALL hang together or we shall surely hang separately.

I just want Christians of all faiths feel at home here, I want people of all races and nationalities to be welcome. I want men and women to both be able to meet here and share their thoughts.

Not to sound too sappy, but I really, really appreciate you all. I wish and pray that we all shall be happy, healthy, and free.
Love, light, and luck to us one and all...
and to quote an American slogan...
E Pluribus Unum...One from Many...
peace/out
~code

don't want to wake up in a sci fi nightmare 5 years from now. I don't want to feel cameras watching me 24/7....I don't want some government lackey listening to every word I say, or tracking every dollar I draw from the bank...and I don't want to be afraid to type these words!

Very well said, Code. You are a smart man. No lie. Question: According to your statement above, do you think if things really got that bad, that would lead to a second revolution, seeing we, as American's, are freedom fighters. Do you think what the RIAA is doing, for example, would be a sort of modern British gauntlet?

This thread seems to have taken a religous turn...OK...what the heck...I'll join in.

I get slightly uncomfortable when religious or political sides get taken on this site because I'm afraid that some people might be offended (Christan/non-Christian, democrat/republican, etc.) and we want to be as inclusive as possible. (I'm actually more of the Buddhist persuasion.) However, as long as we don't get defensive or have the attitude "I'm right, you're wrong" it's probably OK. Everyone here seems to be respectful of each other. Hopefully we won't put off any "newbies" that come here.

Also, I'd like to express my view that it is not useful to look toward some future event (such as Rapture) to find happiness, inner freedom, salvation, or God. The Divine presence can be felt in the present moment. World events will transpire in accordance with God's plan to the extent that humans let go of the ego identification that causes us to see ourselves in conflict with others and with the world. When we lose touch with the Divine inner awareness we identify exclusively with our life circumstances and the mind-projected past and future and this gives rise to a feeling of need. I need this or that to fulfill me. This is the root of evil, in my view. The 9/11 terrorist could not accept the state of the world so they felt the need to strike out. Had they been aware of the inner Divine presence they would have felt compassion and love for others and would have acted in different way, or just accepted conditions as they are. Whenever we use the present moment as merely a means to an end we are denying the Divine reality in the here and now.

I apologize if I've offended anyone and please feel free to flame me if you feel the need.

Codewarrior:

I guess we both agree on the need to be inclusive. I appreciate your comments.

no flaming from the bulkmeister
I may not be as religious as most...but
I agree with Code on the need to be inclusive. It's clear that the movement is not just kids high on drugs wanting to download some rap music. Articulate good people are apparently joining in to fight injustice. I also agree that we don't want to make it too religious and turn off some folks, but we want to make people feel free to express their opinions. So, from the bulk man...
I am just glad to have so many good folks with me in this fight!
-bulkeraser
Making blanks from 1s and zeros

hey IFeelFree ...remember the answer to the question "What do you do if you meet the Buddha on the road?"..,
could be apply the same answer to the RIAA toadies? {sorry, it's something that will make a fellow Buddhist laugh but no one else will get it}

I am really pleased that there are those of faith in this site. The only way that evil can be truely defeated is by prayer as the Bible teaches. Code, no need to apologize (we ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God). That is why He sent His Son (Jesus) into the world. Not to condemn the world but thru Him the world might be saved.

Code, I have learned alot on this site about computers just by reading your posts and the posts of others that are knowledgeable about the industry. I just wanted to say thanks and keep up the Good work.

Now to the topic of the riaa. I feel that when a corporation starts to lose money the first thing they should look at is their product and not the consumer. They have been pumping out garbage for so long and charging ridiculous prices that the paying public has had enough. They stopped selling singles so they can try to force people to buy a cd that may have only two good songs on a cd. To me that is highway robbery. The riaa is to greedy and stubborn to change as technology changes. This will be their ultimate downfall.

Everyone keep on fighting the good fight. Sooner or later our voices will be heard.

The only thing evil needs to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything.

On the DRM aspect, of what i know, the hardware is no good without software that supports DRM, therefore Linux (opensource) can be rid free of DRM, which then there would be no problem.
I myself am not using Linux yet, due to certian and various reasons. Even if DRM is implimented in full scale then someone will find a way around it on the software end, everyone will get it and we'll be free...

Note to intel:
Dear Intel executive,
Me and my 60,000,000 freinds are very concerned about you support in the DRM 'issue' if you do not kill support for DRM in future chips, we will buy computers with out Intel chips. that allot of money that you will lose, so it is in you best interist to kill all DRM support in future intel chips.

thank you,

-Mtekk

Though I don't think it will work, it should possible help sway intel to kill their DRM support. If they actually launch a chip with it built in, They will face certian doom, just as the RIAA. I may have to sell all of my intel stock, darn...

IFeelFree..naw,bro..I,like you, have a spiritual side. It is not reflected by my throwing verse around, but by my actions standing up for the rights of people to be heard. John316, understand that by your injecting your religion here, you are open to critisizm that I think does not belong here. After all, we are more inclusive than most sites, but you have no right to label me in any kind of spiritual way..."we ALL sin..." Your imput is welcome as long as you reflect your personal beliefs, just don't assume that everyone here is in automatic agreement. Other than that, you seem to make some good points.

BTW..Can they sue not only current file-sharers, but those who have shared files in the past, and might just have it sitting on their harddrive? And if they count each instance of file-sharing, couldn't the count be closer to...say....45 BAZILLION!!

I didn't mean to offend or upset anyone with my religious comments and even said that in my post.
But I do believe the Rapture teaching and make no apologies for so and neither force anyone to comply.
Nonetheless, yes, it seems there are many of differents faiths and culutres represented at this board/site.
That is good because this evil(DRM,RIAA,Microshaft and others)has no boundarys. It effects us all, and its wrong, unconstitutional altogether.
Their goal is not only have it concerns us here on America soil but eventuall and much more soon than later its gonna be on foreign soil as well.
Going to a digitalized world is their goal, and not for good common interest either. Although they will market it to be and say it will be, we know otherwise.

No offense here Righton. I believe in the Rapture too. And I know, if BB King and Eric Clapton were here, they would say "Preach brother!"
-you are the best Righton. You earn your name daily here.
-bulkeraser

For those who wish to criticize me for what I believe in or the way I feel go right ahead it does not bother me. Critisizm will not deter me from my faith or wanting to spread the Good News from time to time. If you do not believe the way I do that is fine. What I said was directed to Code and the rest of the Beliver's in Christ.

I can respect your opinion because I spent 3 years of my life defending your right to free speech while I served in the Military. On the same hand I also have that American right to free speech. I will not try and shove my religious opinions down anyone's throat. If at times I think it is called for I will take the opportunity to inject a viewpoint from a Christion point of view.

I am not here to cause any trouble, I just want what I think most everyone here wants, and that is to try and save our freedoms before they are ripped away in the guise of fighting terrorism.

I will be praying that the Lord give all of us the strength to stay the course and fight the good fight even though there may be some bumps in the road in the fight for freedom.

The only thing evil needs to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything.

Peave Brothers & Sisters

You paid your dues John316, and please let me be the first to thank you for your service to our country. You seem to me to be a man of honor, and I respect that. I think Code left the board for good, but I know if he were still here, he would appreciate your words as do I!
I would appreciate you remembering me in your prayers as well (I'm serious). I need everyone's prayers and kind thoughts.
-bulk

bulk,
Thank you for the nice words, they are really appreciated. Bro I will pray for you and anyone else who needs prayer. You will be in my prayers tonite. Just keep fighting bro. I think you are knowledgeable in your posts and I like to read what you have to say. Stay strong and remember we can never win this fight as individuals we can only win as one unit.

Improvise
Adapt
Overcome

The only thing evil needs to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything.

Peace Brothers & Sisters

Code if you are out there come back this board needs a person of your skills and integrity.

Just a quick question:
What does it take to make an OS?
What does it take to make computer hardware (Motherboard,Processor,HD,etc...)?
Can anyone out there that is on our side do it?

I'm kinda bummed out about Code. Wish I had his email addy.

Do not build your world upon a grain of sand......know what I mean? This is what the Big media "brother" is trying to do. I feel a new revolution comming on!

oh i just got an idea. if they put these chips in some1 make a site that sells hardware without the drm and buys the hardware premade to sell. the government couldnt stop somethin like this =D

I haven't seen many christians that were so worried about offending any non-believers, I'm agnostic and I don't plan on swinging one way or the other...but for what it's worth, I appreciate that you guys are so thoughtful about other's political/religous views. I hope Codewarrior comes back I really enjoyed reading what he had to say....

Sorry, didn't have time to read all of the posts...
Anyhow, Righton:
Righton
Date: August 6, 2003 @ 3:46 PM
[...]
Having the approval to download whatever ever I want and when I want will be completely restricted. If that isn't communisum I don't know what is.

It isn't, you have no clue
Communism is an economical ideology.

Brainwashing/Panopticon living/High restriction of freedom, etc, are not inherent functions of Communism.

Anyone who feels their view and knowlege of communism is tainted/derived from Cold War propaganda or similar, I suggest you go and get information on your own.
Propaganda should almost always be taken with a pinch of salt.

A place to start looking might be http://www.marxists.org/

There is actually there also whether or not Sovjet ever became Socialist.

A bit OT, sorry

*There is actually also a discussion on whether or not Sovjet ever became a Socialist State.

-Better, no?

Yeah, Marx would probably now call the internet "the opiate of the masses".

If they were really interested in control, they would allow file sharing and software downloads, to keep people happy and docile.

Npgamer, I wish it was that easy. I'm sure you wouldn't even be able to log on the net without DRM in place, but I'm just guessing on that one.

Windowatcher: Thank you for responding to my simple question. I am a Christian, and I love my country so much that I served it for 6 years in the U.S. Air Force. When Sept. 11th happened I was part of the homeland security here in New York. I get angry when big company executives want to bully Americans. So what will they do, have every military member, police officer, doctor and fire-fighter jailed for downloading? Doesn't make sense to me.

If can still quote a politician legally, or not, I submit this;

"In the long history of the world only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility, I welcome it!"

also;

Here on Earth, God's work must truely be our own!"-
John F. Kennedy (at his innagural address.)

heh, DRM? what about the good, old-fashioned CRACKING?
Once there was a well-protected CAD system, having a special PC-connected external card (it would not run without it). My compatriots have broken it, hahaha! After this, it no longer needed the card, having the 'card-checking algorithm' just plainly removed!

Headers? What's the problem with FORGING them (it started with Napster's problems with Metashitica (sorry Metallica fans, I mean only the pro-RIAAite attitude of the group, not its music, which I like, too); the names have been converted, for example reversed: acilletaM-gnihton-esle-srettam. And that's just the 'innocent' example; what about using a 256 bit encryption keys for those names? )

Certificates? What's a problem with counterfeiting some? It needs only some reverse engineering of the working 'certifying applications'. It is possible to get the DRM-maker (that means, a program which imposes a protection, not the one that enforces it), so why not disassemble it, reverse-engineer, get it all plain, distribute crackz and the code over the net (don't care for the 'DeCSS case' (or Dmitry Sklyarov's one) - not everyone must be famous! Just the good, old-fashioned 'cracker-style', anonimous publishing is still working ... Nobody will ever get to know WHO wrote the program, if it will be put in the Freenet or other such a network ...

P2Ps packets will be easily recognizable? Why not make them 'imitate' other packets (mail's, for example) ?? IPs? There are already some anonymizers or, better, programs that tell the other side on the net that you are, for example, the President of the United States with his IP in White House. ROCKZ, doesn't it? ?

And the DMCA SHALL NOT work in the anti-encryption aspect (all those anti-circumvention sh*t), if the crackers don't give up their identities voluntarily (the 'law enforcement' is too stupid to get them).

Eh, anyway ... If the main processor-makers will embrace DRM, there will still be some companies which WILL NOT; or even some, that will produce chips with counterfeited DRM (dummy-DRM, showing up as DRM machines but not working for this purpose; just some imitation). If Chinese are starting to produce the microprocessors ... It seems that this technology is cheeper and cheeper, gradually, and more popular.

Anyway, there was a unique number implemented in Pentium III ... The scandal was big, the outrage even bigger and the company was forced to make this an OPTION.

It seems to me, that the DRM-using companies will be 'ghettoing' themselves: that means, nobody will use THEIR products because of DRM, and this DRM will work to prevent, yes, to prevent, but the public from using their crappy products; it will be a kind of 'branding' (in the sense of 'branding with hot iron') - a DRMed product will be a BRANDED product, what would start to mean: USELESS one.

Anyway, it's a good idea to condemn DRM to hell before it's implemented.

Cheerz!
Critto

ghosthouse: I know. I bet there are a lot of us in "those fields" who do not wish to be found out to be "criminals"..and we will all be humiliated & lose our jobs...good luck to us for finding another if this becomes a felony..(some of us didn't even understand how the p2p really worked...belive it or not) because most of us were brought up in the techonogy (pardon my spelling) to make copies of movies, tapes etc. for their own personal use. I have GREAT FEAR IN ALL OF THIS...I want the RIAA to stop their terroristic threats!!

I just wanted to say a few brief things and hope I haven't overposted
Since we really don't know much about each other, I wanted to tell ghosthouse that I for one appreciate his service to our country. Thank you brother! And for any other vets how are on board, I really thank you. We too often fail to fully recognize that freedom is rarely free (and never). I read that in Texas, Waco, they closed one of the better Veteran's hospitals, and now 28.000 patients are without care. I dunno how many people on this board have downloaded songs, and don't care, but I bet some have. I have come to kind of know each of you by your posts, what you say and don't say. I imagine we range in age from teens to, well, the older guys like me and Wabbitman, and a lady just a bit out of her 20s -Windowatcher. The RIAA calls downloaders "pirates". This evokes the image of bloodthirsty thieves that would murder you at the drop of the hat, predatory swashbucklers. I came here and found no pirates. What I did find, were people like me, who are concerned about their fellow Americans, and concerned about what is happening to their country. I found people who are motivate to help. People like directive who got out on the street with signs and protested,thus keeping up a proud tradition in this country.
We are students, grandmothers, soldiers, computer nerds, all with a dream of freedom that at times, is turning into a nightmare. I see this as an opportunity to really see if this republic really works like it has been taught to us it does. Probably, some us will get more politically active than we ever have. Shakespeare said something about the fact that it's an ill wind that blows no good. Sure, this RIAA thing is an ill wind, but there is potential for each one us to bring something positive from this experience, to take a depersonalizing thing like a computer, and find it to be something to unify us.
I hope I don't get flamed for this long post. I think I got some courage from watching Code say what he felt, and I was lurking around before I posted the first time, but I remember thinking, that, hey, take a shot, say what you think dude.
All this is from my heart, and yeah, it's a long post, but I think it's on topic and is something that deals with what we are all here about.
Props and respect to one and all.
-bulk

Yes, if there are options to using DRM infused pcs, the informed people will resist. My fear is that somewhere down the line some legislation will be passed in the name of the Boogie Man that will force it or something similar upon us all.