"... it seems unlikely to me that the recording industry can win this arms race. I think at best they can fight to a draw and force the people who want to share files to keep advancing their technology and working hard at it."

That's the view of professor Edward Felten, the man who took on the RIAA and won. To his loss. And he expressed it during a July 8 National Public Radio show called All Things Considered.

The slug was Cyberguerrilla warfare heats up as recording industry pursues music file swappers and other guests included the RIAA's Cary Sherman. Below is a transcript.

Now read on ....

ROBERT SIEGEL, host:
Just two weeks ago, the recording industry announced a new front in its war against music fans illegally sharing songs online. It announced plans for bringing thousands of civil actions against copyright violators, but some dogged techies are already at work devising a way to keep who's sharing what under wraps. NPR's Laura Sydell reports.

LAURA SYDELL reporting:
The Recording Industry of America, the industry's trade group, announced it would go after individual file swappers on a Wednesday. On the following Monday, OptiSoft, maker of a file sharing software called Blubster, announced new privacy features that promised to hide the identities of users. But this isn't about helping people steal music, says the Madrid, Spain-based Pablo Soto, developer of Blubster.

Mr. PABLO SOTO (OptiSoft): I'm not helping anyone doing any crime. I'm helping them to keep their rights.

SYDELL: After the RIAA's latest salvo, privacy rights suddenly had new appeal. Blubster downloads doubled the day after it announced the new security feature, according to Download.com, which offers the program.

Mr. CARY SHERMAN (RIAA): I really think that you can run but you can't hide.

SYDELL: Cary Sherman, the president of the RIAA, says no program is going to stop the association from tracking down and suing people doing unauthorized music file sharing.

Mr. SHERMAN: This is one of those situations where activity on a public network is ultimately detectable, and people should not think - just because somebody tells them, 'We're going to protect you,' they really shouldn't believe that because it's just not true.

(Soundbite of door closing)

SYDELL: But the RIAA is going to be fighting a cyberguerrilla war against some pretty savvy soldiers. Here in the computer science building at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California, students like Jason--not his real name--are ready for the challenge. And it isn't about music, he says.

"JASON": People like us, who are working on computers, hate to see really neat programs be destroyed. So something like a peer-to-peer system, which has very nice properties from a technical point of view--to see someone come in and throw that away is like throwing away a nice work of art.

SYDELL: Michael, another computer science student, says that a government that can stop songs from being shared can stop political messages, too.

MICHAEL: There's no real difference between like a copyrighted song and something like the Constitution of the United States--Right?--if they can be declared arbitrarily illegal.

SYDELL: The challenge for people like Jason and Michael is to develop a program that makes it possible to openly share music files without giving access to snoopy RIAA agents. Princeton University computer science Professor Edward Felten says it's already been done. The program Freenet was developed to be used by people in China and other repressive nations so they could safely trade information. Felten explains how it works.

Professor EDWARD FELTEN (Princeton University): So if, for example, a file goes from user to user to user to user before finally getting to the final user, then the final user who gets the file is not going to know necessarily who the original source of it was.

SYDELL: What will the industry do then? Jonathan Zittrain, a professor at Harvard Law School, says it could go after users who have downloaded the software and thus turned themselves into conduits for illegal trading.

Professor JONATHAN ZITTRAIN (Harvard Law School): That will in turn pose for the courts the question of are those who participate knowingly in such systems willfully ignorant, and as a result, maybe they should be penalized if it should happen that copyrighted material passes through them even if they didn't have any ability to know that it was.

SYDELL: Zittrain says they may also target Internet service providers. But the legality of both strategies is untested in the courts, and such efforts may energize programmers to develop even more sophisticated weaponry to hide user identities, says Princeton Professor Felten. He thinks the RIAA has embarked on a technological arms race with no end.

Prof. FELTEN: And it seems unlikely to me that the recording industry can win this arms race. I think at best they can fight to a draw and force the people who want to share files to keep advancing their technology and working hard at it.

SYDELL: But RIAA President Cary Sherman thinks consumers may tire of the battle.

Mr. SHERMAN: At some point, people will feel like it's just so much trouble to go so far underground to get music illegally that it will just be much better and much easier and legal and the artist gets paid to go to a legitimate service.

SYDELL: The RIAA's legal threats already have had some effect on the file-sharing world. The number of files shared on Kazaa, the most popular such program, has dropped by about 15 percent in recent weeks. But the service still boasts more than three-quarters of a billion files and more than three million users on the network at any one time. Laura Sydell, NPR
News.

(Soundbite of music)

Can't hide eh? I'll prove you wrong CARY SHERMAN. I'll help everyone hide, we will all endure in a very popular network, that the trafic is so hevily desguised that that they, won't be able to hold evidence against us! haha haha ha ha ha!

RIAA: You can't run, had you really suck at hideing

oops! it's supposed to be...
RIAA, you can't run, and you really suck at hideing.
(they suck at hiding the evidence that goes against they even tough they try to eliminate it)

We enjoy the technology, using the existing tech and learning the new.

Does the RIAA enjoy paying lawyers, I doubt it.

Fight them with one's and zero's, dont waste money in the courtroom.

Hmmm, the RIAA vs. the tech saavy.

Smart money is on the motivated tech saavy folks.

Cary, it doesn't matter whether we can hide or not anyway. It's going to be found in the courts that what you are trying to do would require a federal warrant IF found constitutional, and it probably won't BE found constitutional. It's exactly the same as the Betamax situation, but moneygrubbers never learn. Like virtually everyone in the world has been telling you, you need to quit trying to resist an irresistable force (technology) and start trying to figure out how to make it work for you. The problem is, and has always been, that you're richer than most and you think you're smarter and, ultimately, more RIGHT than everyone else in the world. Not to mention that you never listen. Guess what, Brontosaurus? The meteorite just hit. Pepare to be extinct.

Well, as far as I know the corporate formula for advancement has always been "lick up, kick down".

Check this out:
AP) - Production of pirated recordings of music increased by 14 percent last year and now account for a third of all CDs sold around the globe, an industry group reported Thursday. The estimated value of pirated recordings last year reached $4.6 billion, and included some 1.1 billion CDs, according to the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry, representing 1,500 record companies in 70 countries

Looks like the music industry is on its way out.

HA HA HA
Fuck the RIAA, the people have spoke and we say "FREE DOWNLOADS RULE!" bring on your lawsuits, but remember this the billions you made last year, you'll be spending in court cost suing literally millions of people

Also, this also shows that people want there music ON THE INTERNET, or atleast i hope.

I'll never get tired of going deeper underground to find my music, as General Sherman says I will. I'll get my music fix no matter what.

Speaking of Sherman, I wouldn't be surprised if Sherman were related to the real General Sherman. Guess we can expect him to burn Silicon Valley soon just as General Sherman burned Atlanta.

Or Columbia, don't forget about Columbia.

Personally, I think they just don't have a smart approach. The strategy is simple through the legal method: Find the folks with illegal files, sue 'em, and make sure those files don't come back. But the floodgates are wide open...my Kazaa Lite window says a little over six million GIGABYTES of files are at my fingertips.

I've got files that anyone can share legally. If anyone wants to stop me on that, they're gonna have to show me a really big check of theirs. (And then I'll find my copy of Gnucleus.)

What irks me about the statement made by sherman is that he totally ignores the CONSTITUTION, and the right to privacy! I found out at UCLA at the Copyright hearings that the RIAA doesn't care about the CONSUMERS RIGHTS, just there pockets.

Don't waste your energy getting steamed over this guys. Now with WiFi they will have no way of stopping P2P. Think about it. 3,000 people walk through a city square and download and simultaneously upload a few hundred files to various nearby hotspots and then walk off in their own directions every hour. How can they stop that? How can they monitor all of them? It cannot be done. Anyone who knows Union Square park in NYC or Seattle, Washington knows what I am talking about. I defy the empty suits at the RIAA to find a way to control the non-physical. I don't think they could be that arrogant.

Don't waste your energy getting steamed over this guys. Now with WiFi they will have no way of stopping P2P. Think about it. 3,000 people walk through a city square and download and simultaneously upload a few hundred files to various nearby hotspots and then walk off in their own directions every hour. How can they stop that? How can they monitor all of them? It cannot be done. Anyone who knows Union Square park in NYC or Seattle, Washington knows what I am talking about. I defy the empty suits at the RIAA to find a way to control the non-physical. I don't think they could be that arrogant?

so freenet IS proxy-based, heh?
maybe i should try it, since that's what I imagined safe filesharing to be like.
i guess i dont need to keep working on my p2p2p thing.

Anyways, keep filesharing - you are safe as long as you use common sense. You are still more likely to die in a car crash than to be sued for filesharing.

if i download music vids..does that fall under the RIAA??

Hahah Sherman is a putz! I bet he is one of those ignorant chaps that thinks people hadn't been trading music UNTILL napster! Let em nail the coffin lid om themselves! The more publicity that P2P music trading gets the more people become aware and the more people will persue it.

I heard about this on NPR. Some computer nerd would rather spend hours at his computer developing a new way to download and hack music than to just go out and buy it. How sad is that...really? For the time he spends hacking away at his computer, that time would have probably been equal or in excess of the amount of money it takes to buy a CD. Plus, he could have had something some of us refer to as a "SOCIAL LIFE." Then again...I'm sure Mr. Hack-n-jack has no idea what a social life is, outside of chatrooms and phone sex lines.

Why have on been gone for so many months, some of you wonder? Part of it is because I have a life...unlike Hackmeister....and the other reason is that this site frankly gets a little boring. It's always "RIAA blah blah. Spin blah blah. Smoke and mirrors blah blah. MP3's blah blah." This whole MP3 thing is getting boring. On one side you have an industry that needs to improve, and is finally doing so very slowly, and on the other end you have a bunch of morons that try to make it sound like fighting for, and downloading all music, for free is a noble cause. Was that a run on sentence??? Ah, I really don't care.

Get a life. If you sit at your computer and download unauthorized music, you're just a thief. If you are the long haired dork who finds ways around everything...you need to get a life.

Before I close...this site sucks, the RIAA will never go away and most of you remind me of overly idealistc, warped hippies from the 1960's.

Obvious from all this that Generalissimo Sherman thinks that this is Cuba (amongst other totalitarian police states), what with how that country's "justice" system is rigged. That, plus his "collective guilt" attitude of penalizing all for the actions of a few.

But I have a question here for all of you. What if Generalissimo Sherman, or Matt (I-Sue U.) Oppenheim, or the other useful idiots of the multinational entertainment-media complex:
- Invoked the name Willie Horton (as George Bush Sr. had when running against Michael Dukakis in the 1988 Presidential election) in their inciteful remarks against P2P users;
- Likened file-swappers to, say, Jewish settlers in Israel building homes in areas that the selfsame RIAA-coddling media call "Palestinian areas"; or
- Openly wished that P2P file-sharers should die of some incurable disease (i.e. cancer or AIDS)?
Would there be such an uproar over any of those kinds of remarks that one or more of these execs would get the kind of treatment that we saw doled out to the likes of John Rocker, Trent Lott, Rick Santorum or (more recently) Michael Savage? Or would they continue to get a free pass from the de facto RIAA-and-MPAA-controlled news media, as they have been getting these last few years, given the poisonous atmosphere they themselves helped create?

Consider that one of the key 'useful idiots' of the industry, Eminem, gets kudos (in the form of wink-wink, nudge-nudge) from the RIAA for openly inciting violence against file-swappers; whereas if he did likewise against blacks, gays, women or other certain groups of individuals, he'd likely face hard jail time for many, many years. As I keep saying, the double standard here is thoroughly nauseating.

Hey Doug77, I just want to say on behalfof all of us here:

FUCK OFF, YOU RIAA DRONE!

Huh? He DOES openly incite violence against every group you mentioned! Have you ever heard the guy? Anyway- Doug77- no one missed you. This site is really here for people to talk about this. Why are you here? Can't quite tell. Half your crappy life is facilitated by people who spend a lot of time at computers because you're too damn lazy to actually DO anything- you just buy things. The reason most of us are here is not to avoid paying artists for CDs. It's to avoid paying beaurocrats and industry hangers-on for CDs! And I just can't help but add that people who worry about other people's hairstyles and whether they're "dorks" or not- weell, they're either just a tad bit shallow & not too bright- or they just need to "get a life".

P.S. how sad is it that anyone would bother to visit sites they think suck? that's just plain pitiful.

Again, Kazaa can limit who does and does not use the service. They should have an opening dialog box advising that the RIAA,MPAA,MediaDefender,Baytsp,et al, are not authorized to use this service and if they do, they are trespassing both on the service and on the computers of any person who they connect to. Any business has the right to exclude disruptive would be patrons.
There is a federal law under title 18 making unauthorized access to stored electronic communications a federal crime.
BOYCOTT THE BASTARDS!

Doug, if I've already paid for the copyrighted material, and illegally download it, I've stolen nothing, just conducted copyright infringement.

Oh, and since you claim to have not been here for months (which is most likely true), you're in position to label the general population of this place like that. You didn't spend much time here before to even get that kind of indication.

Hey Everyone,

We're all entitled to our opinions, include Doug77. However, Doug77, if you're not here to participate in the debate and voice some intelligent constructive argument about the issues, but would rather criticize the others who do, or who at least have the decency to just vent about the RIAA, you really need to fuck off.

It's lazy fucks like you who the RIAA is counting on to make sure their business model and suppresive practices towards artists stay in place.

It's those "no-life" geekoids who are smart enough to know better and want to do something about it who are helping the rest of us discover new music and develope a technological tool that allows us to sample our interests in a manner we see fit, rather than in a way some company wants us to. The RIAA wants to keep things their way, but the consumers have already spoken. So now it's sink or swim time for the RIAA's business partners.

oh! argh ekkk Oh my...my ego has been shattered. What will I ever do now? Some Anti-RIAA dipshit thinks I am shallow or whatever. There is not a thing wrong with furthering technology or exposing yourself to new music. However, stealing it is never justified. No matter what reason you give, you can and will never justify stealing music online. By the way...I stand by the "geek comment."

now,now,now, you guys!....I was going to quote a song lyric here, but it is probably illegal..LOL...LOL

By the way Doug 77, are you absolutely sure that the artist gets their money?? Are you absolutely sure that this is honest and on the up and up? Are you sure that all here are geeks? Are you sure that one opinion is true uber all?

Doug77-

It's not that "Mr. Hack-nJack" is anti-social and just trying to bum songs for free, he is a forerunner in the Anti-RIAA movement. he wants to DO, rather than just SAY. His extra hours of work and extra pints of sweat poured into a better P2P program, secures the future of privacy, and the not-so-future of Big Corporation bullies like the RIAa, who are hipocrits for sucking so much money from good artists. (and the bad ones too, just to be fair).

To Doug77

You still haven't answered the last questions I posed. Are you back for more? Forget to answer? Thought I left?

The RIAA doesn't have a chance. My Indie movement is now teaming up with the Webcasters Alliance in THEIR antitrust suit. The Justice Department is already looking into my antitrust allegations.

The "sue everyone" scenario is a futile effort by a futile, outdated industry to fight a futile battle to save themselves from technology.

Without the artists there is no recording industry. You'd better learn a new trade. The old industry is dead and it is NOT getting better by any means. So we finish it off.

Embrace file sharing or die. Resistance is futile.

only the artists that ASCAP and BMI judge worthy of recieving a check get one. Dont even get me started on what those two orgs do.

Any other org doing what they do would be accused of extortion, which is really the biznez they are in. I know cuz I worked for a station that had to deal with thier greed first hand.

Change your ways or be left behind.

hey Doug77.
first: Copying is not stealing. And it has never been stealing. Don't try to shove your nomenclature down my throat; it will not work.
There is absolutely no way to fit "copying" into my definition of "stealing", especially with music. Music is neither a product nor a service; it cannot be "stolen" no matter what you do.
The only thing that can be stolen is the media it is stored on.
I don't know where the RIAA gets the idea to preach THEIR ethics to ME.
If they think downloading music is wrong, well, they should avoid using p2p software. I am not about to stop.

Second: I am an engineer, I make more money than you, and my wife is smarter and hotter than yours.
Being a technical major, I actually CONTRIBUTE TO CIVILIZATION, while you represent just some shit residue on the ass of mankind, not unlike a dirty career-telemarketer.
So right there, my opinion is simply more valid than yours, since being smarter I am more likely to be right, making everyone's dominant strategy to assume that I AM.
Those you call "geeks" look down on you, knowing fully that it is them who create the technology which may some day extend your little useless life by a few months.
Oh and I am quite satisfied with my social life. Me and my friends and colleagues have higher security clearance than you or any of your offspring will ever have. Needless to say, there is not a minute of boredom in my life.

And I actively develop new internet/filesharing technology at work AND at home.
Those RIAA dumbfucks have enemies in very high places, you just don't know it yet.

So how you like them bananas

A few words to Doug77:

You sound like you believe the RIAA so why don't you join them? There's no room, need or want for you here. Some of the return posts are plain evidence of that.

We don't need or want you if all you want to do is call us names and tell us to get a life. Plain and simple. If you have valid points to back up the other side's effort then we're all ears. I'm not saying you won't get an earful yourself, but to simplify my point even further:

Nothing intelligent to say? Then don't say anything.

P.S. Don't come back with the lame excuse about just wanting to see what kind of rise you could get out of us.

word

Kazaa Lite has a new version out that blocks riaa and other evil ips' it came out just today in fact, and it updates its list constantly

corporate greed
makes me sick
fuck you all
you stupid mother
fuckers
all you people who are addicted to a substance
fuck you all you riaa demons
you can suck my big nuts
you AGH
if i wasnt stoned id hurt someone

Ignore this Doug77 character. He's just jelous because must buy music or movies because he has not knowledge how to download. He said "get a life". What life? To work so hard for make money then to give that money to Mr Doug77 and his Masters in RIAA - profiteering gluttons who steal from actually artists. Fuck this. Kazaa rules.

i dont know where that came from but shit im a junky by day and a c++ master by night i have fun fuck you dougnut77 oh but yea anyhoo winmx i dont know if its gnutella but i havent had any po po potroll knock on my door
???

I'll let the cat out of the bag. Doug77 is really............Lars Ulrich!! That's right folks, Lars is here to tell you all how pathetic and evil you are for not downloading his band's garbage or for buying it! In fact, he's ready to line you all up for litigation because you haven't marched out like good little fascist sheep (consumers) and bought his latest piece of garbage, "Tales from the Drunk Tank" (sorry, that was Hetfield's solo album he did while in rehab - I thought it was sooooooo cool to be a heavy metal raging alcoholic - guess not), I mean "St AssWipe" - Executive Producer - Hillary "I Quit" Rosen.

You should be getting your summons any day now.....

What a putz - must be a republican capitalist pig.

Doug77,
This statement "Before I close...this site sucks, the RIAA will never go away and most of you remind me of overly idealistc, warped hippies from the 1960's. " is mixed with TRUTH and LIES. The riaa may be around, but most of us are just people who are against the RIAA. Mix TRUTH with TRUTH next time. ALSO, this site does NOT suck!

Well...whadayaknow. Can this be verified,audiophreek? Now that I think on it, the rhetoric sounds familiar....

Sure...I'm really Lars Ulrich.

There is a difference between piracy and privacy. These are two words that rhyme and used interchangably. Sorry, theft is theft. I'm all for P2P networks and technology. But I am not for a bunch of high-tech theives

Directive...sorry, the site sucks.

187....congrats on mastering C+++. Would you like a cookie?

Massimo, I do know how to download. Infact, I was a download freak when Napster first arrived. It was soon that I realized it was stealing and I stopped. The difference between me and most other people, is I realized what I was doing was wrong and I changed my behavior. Instead many other people get self-rightous about it and continue to steal and try to justify it.

Nope, I'm not a Republican...nor will I ever register for a polictical party. I am, however, conservative in my views. By the way...I like capitalism. Capitalism is what runs this country and it's economy. Since you're against capitalism, Audio, what does that make you...a Communist? Go move to China if you hate capitalism and copyright so much.

Remember....the big 5 will always remain and you're all living a pipe dream that will soon end.

"Infact, I was a download freak when Napster first arrived. It was soon that I realized it was stealing and I stopped. The difference between me and most other people, is I realized what I was doing was wrong and I changed my behavior. Instead many other people get self-rightous about it and continue to steal and try to justify it."

Well aren't we the shining example of moral clarity? I was an alcoholic, but I stopped so now I am above all you slimy, pathetic, good for nothing alcoholics, down there at me feet. Why do you feel the need to play fair with an industry that has never played fair in it's existence?

Capitalism is ruining the planet at a tremendous rate. It's not as simple as "if I don't like it, i can move to .

A real visionary stays and fights. Ostrich Americans ( I assume you are American from your tired, unimagitive "commie" comment) like yourself make excuses for the status quo and then stand there looking dumb when the hammer falls on them (how's your 401K doing? health premiums? Take a swim in the Gulf of Mexico lately?)

"Remember....the big 5 will always remain and you're all living a pipe dream that will soon end." Yah, okay Kenny Boy. Say hi to all at Enron for me. Bet you thought that THEY would remain forever, as well. Nothing ever stays they same. Change is inevitable and constant. Those that don't change get left behind, like you.

Since I am against American Capatalism Inc., that makes me a free thinker.

I dont get it, why people so stuck wit kazaa, this prog sucks. eDonkey is way better. Also, no riaa will ever shut down edonkey network coz there are no centralized server, all network is divided between smaller servers connected t each other, and there is no way riaa can shut them down.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe downloading music is illegal, as long as you copy it onto a CD (tape, whatever). Under the Home Recording Act, the RIAA members get a cut of every recordable medium sold. In short, THEY ARE GETTING PAID! So where's the piracy? (I think it's in the movie theaters, "Pirates of the Carribean" opens this week.)

Today we got old-fashioned trusts and monopolist who want to control everything on the planet. We got some people, powerful people, who actually regrets for inventions like CD RW, DVD recorder, computer, internet, p2p software, mp3 & DiVX codecs etc. Partially, they right. But, new prohibition cannot resolve anything. Any prohibition cannot solve nothing. Copyright concept must change. Pay sites where I can download only song I like for symbolic price - one buck for example is OK as alternative to p2p programs, but chase then pursuit ordinary people for mp3 or DivX files exchange is ridiculous. Attempt to forbid useful p2p programs is act of arrogance and disability.

All in all I'd say that the majority of the people posting to this forum have the right idea: RIAA, your time has come. I do hope that many (most?) of you will take your fight beyond this forum to your Congressmen and representatives. Make your voices be heard. Let others know that there is a war going on. :::cue music "Glory Hallelujah::: Paint it whatever color you need to paint it to get their attention and call them to act. The time is now, people. You must get out there and fight for what you believe!

Doug77: If you're really Lars Ulrich can I have your autograph?

(Doug77) capitalism is stronger, and more true to our forefathers goals in china. And the big 5 is soon to be 3, and I don't believe you are Lars if you are, your new album sucks. garbage days re-re-visited with clean vocals and sloppy shit music. LOL.


Have a nice day

Doug77,
I do agree with you on some topics, i share ONLY Legal files on kazaa, 1200 of them, and they are AUTHORIZED.
Second, i would say this site has some things that suck about it, but so does every website in existence, or atleast someone will not like how it is setup or ran.
This site serves my needs, therefore it doesn't suck.
Be sure to join us as we protest on August 1st. I have decided to educate the public about this, your help would be appreciated.
Lastly, even if the RIAA is still around in 20 years, it will not have the power and control it does now have. That is not bragging, just according to what the economy and there lack of transition to TECHNOLOGY.
Cya

Doug77 says that this site sucks and we have no lives, yet he's been back here five times. Who's the one with out a life again?

I am absolutely AMAZED that Mr. Sherman believes the public will tire of the battle. WOW!! This man clearly doesn't know his bunghole from his head.

Let's take a look at REAL facts and lessons from a similar industry: computer software. The distribution of "crackz", "serialz", and "warez" are at an ALL TIME HIGH. The more software developers fight back, the more crackers try to get their stuff freely distributed to the public. It's a constant cycle. Always has been, and I imagine always will be. I know this all too well - I am president of a fairly well known software company (I will not make the company name public on this board, for obvious reasons), and our products are CONSTANTLY under cracker attack.

So, why does Mr. Sherman think music will be any different? In fact, it will likely be worse for the following reasons:

1. Pretty much everyone listens to music and most gladly seek out new tunes... not everyone seeks out software in the same, more vigorous, way.
2. On the data-integrity side of music, it is not required for bit-for-bit purity to make it work, as it is required with software... (for example, you can convert a 128b MP3 to 192b MP3 with no signal loss, but the data gets changed.) This makes it FAR easier to copy into various formats, etc., obfuscating the process of distribution.
3. Plus, the RIAA as a whole has a larger target market than any software developer, and also has to fight a public attitude of "music should be free" (after all, we've been getting free music on the radio for over half a century).

So, I say "WOW! This guy is just as ignorant as they come"... it's truly amazing... he actually thinks he can win. Wow... the reality is, the best he can hope for is to continually battle back and forth, just as it has become so for the software industry.

GET A CLUE, MR. SHERMAN.

Doug77: Do you believe in God, or a higher power?

This is a relevant question.

If there is a God, I would imagine that he would not want us to be selfish, but selfless. If there is a God, I do not think that he is so mad about people copying art than he is about money stolen from artists by the RIAA.

If there is a God, I would imagine he would approve hours spent trying to enlighten and make other people happy, rather than spending money on entertainment, while that money could be used for food for someone in need goes to a corporate conglomerate with too much money and power as it is.

If there is a God, I would imagine that he's a HolySupernode.

See, you may believe that filesharing is theft. But even if filesharing is theft, it's the classic Robin-hood case of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor.

And the tactics of the RIAA are commesurate with the Sherrif of Nottingham, setting fire to EVERYONE'S rights in our constition to get the few "scoundrels" who hang out in Sherwood Forest.

And they have to go away. They just can't survive - at least, not in the current form. The RIAA isn't a capitalistic organization. It's a monopolistic organization. It's very presence threatens capitalism - and if a black market develops for overpriced product, well, then, so be it. That's capitalism at it's basest form - it's part of what brought down the Soviet Union, for chrissakes.

And like the Soviets, they cannot continue to expect to have full control when everyone is rebelling against them.

Do you believe in a higher power, Doug?

Search your heart, and you'll know what the right thing to do is.

Please don't mix religion with this. It has no relevancy what so ever. It doesn't matter what you believe. You don't need to have faith in a higher being to be a good person or to do the right thing.

(well put, kneo24)

ok, while Doug77 is definitely an RIAA troll, he is not nearly as good as the previous four.
He is not nearly as creative, so arguing with him is boringly easy.
While previous ones actually TRIED to reason, this guy just keeps repeating "blah blah stealing, blah theft, blah blah blah theft, blahblahblah stop stealing, blah blah blah.."

My theory is he is one of the old/disabled/uneducated people, whom the RIAA pays minimum wage to sit at an old iMac and preach their horseshit in different forums.

kinda like a telemarketer, only for internet propaganda.

That's why going indie is much more attractive. No strings.

ok doug77
no more downloading
but i'm still buying used records/cds for pennies online or at my local flea market. it this stealing?
no artist or record label sees a penny. only the poor jerk who paid full price.
should he be allowed to sell it and make a profit?
what if he or she just gives me a record or cd
is that stealing?
wait what if i just download it instead?
what's the difference?
maybe we should shut down every yardsale and flea market.
for they are making $ off copyrighted material.

there is an interesting history to recorded music.
when edison first invented the cylindrical records they were very expensive
over time and with technology the price came down to a much more affordable rate for the day
falsh forward to cds.
cheaper to make than records, much cheaper
price seem to keep going up
with no reach arounds either
so what goes around cones around
instead of the record industry being smart and lowering the price of cds as technology increases their profit margin, technology has forced their hand and the price of cds is going down with out their control.
hmmm i think 0$ sounds fair for something that costs pennies and consumers have paid 15$ and up for years for.
sorry riaa
you had your chance
you got greedy
now control is no longer in your hands
the dike has sprung countless leaks
you cannot control the flood
time to start respecting your customer base
put out some decent music and charge like 8$ a cd.
or you can keep pissing off the very people you depend on for economic survival.

Doug, I need you to help me out here. I seem to fail to see where my downloading music is stealing. Turn on the radio, do you hear that? You are now consuming a copyrighted work for free. Is that stealing? Now put a tape in your stereo, press record. Now you're recording that copyrighted work. If the former isn't stealing, that has to be stealing right? I do not know one person who hasn't taped a song off the radio. Why is the RIAA doing everything in their power to supply radio stations with music rather than suing them into poverty?

Take this into consideration when before attempting to run your mouth again. The vast majority of file swappers download various popular singles. The majority of music consumers do not want to pay for entire cd when all they want is a popular single. The RIAA has practically phased out the entire cd single format, therefore eliminating their ability to compete with file sharing.

The RIAA has fixed their market to force consumers to pay over inflated prices for one song, and they expect people not to resort to file sharing? I could hear 15 songs (the average for a retail cd) on the radio that I enjoy, and instead of paying for the price of one cd to get all of those songs, the RIAA has forced me to pay $10 - $20 per song. That's rediculous. Even if I COULD afford that, I wouldn't pay just because it goes against all common sense.

I have been downloading music since 96, and before that as a kid I would tape songs I liked off of the radio. If I enjoyed an artists work, of course I'd purchase the album. But I don't see how I'm stealing (as well as the 90% of other file sharers that do the same thing) when I wouldn't buy the cd in the first place. I'd just tape it off of the radio and play it until the next song came along.

By the way, I think it's cute how you beat around serious posts addressed to you and attack the more simple-minded posters (no offence to the rambling morons doug mentioned in his posts). Here's a tip when you go posting in forum, always remember the law of internet debate, the first party to make resemblance to nazi germany has already lost.

Doug...

First off... BITCH...

You are FAR from Lars Ulrich

LARS WAS FUCKING RIGHT!!!

Nappyster was a fuckin' scar on the music sharing scene and it NEEDED to be shut down...

It's one thing for music lovers to share the music they love, and quite another for a fucking company to jump and make millions off of an IPO in stock off of the backs of the musicians and the music lovers.

James said it best...

"I don't have a problem with some kid in a garage who thinks its cool to spread our shit, but I have a MAJOR problem with a company that profits from it..."

We share music because we LOVE music...

and because we love music...

WE BUY IT.

ummm.... by the way... audiophreek001???

How do you consider yourself a "free thinker" when you cant even spell the word?

i.e. "Since I am against American Capatalism Inc., that makes me a free thinker."

Ummm.... hello...?

Could it be... 'Capitalism' ?!?!?!

FYI

Capitalism encourages FREE society!

ok damn... I'm actually going to post 3 times in a row... but... I have to admit, it's only because of 4 factors...

1. its almost 4 a.m.

2. Doug (who is obviously a moron) tried to align himself with Metallica, who I happen to think was fully justified in their stance against Nappyster...

3. Some idiot who hates capitalism (call me a capitalist pig any day!)

and...

4. Tonyrat... who's opinion I respect, but must disagree with.

Tony...

While I do agree that there are many similarities to the software scene and the music scene, it is largely superficial.

Music lovers share music because there is so much unheard music that never gets radio play that we love. We painstakingly heard our music collections. I know so many mp3 fanatics who search for hard to find CDs to buy just so they can add them to their music collection.

Software is at a much different level, and a much more lethal one. Many companies support software crackers so that they will not have to pay licensing fees...

We don't do what we do for money.

We do it out of pure love for music.

One would hope that one of the lawmakers who are more on the side of the consumer would clandestinely sneak in a provision that would severely curb the obviously anti-technology RIAA-cists' litigious tentacles in connection with the latest drive within Congress to enact tort reform (and if there's anything that screams "tort reform," it's the RIAA's blatant abuse of the legal system for the purpose of bankrupting, and thus perhaps permanently alienating, potential customers); however, given their buying off of politicians, judges, etc. (the corruption in this whole business reeks of what one would've found in ancient Rome), I wouldn't bet on it.

Capitalism is democratic!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, for those who GOT MONEY! Ever listen to Public Enemy? Ever read the book World on FIre, by Amy Chua?? Thought not.

Look, P2P services do NOT have to allow every minion of the MPAA,RIAA,SBA to access their service. I strongly applaud software level blocking of these criminals, but I say that ALL P2P services need to have a disclosure notice which pops up when the program loads that states that MediaEnforcer/BayTSP, Ranger Inc, and other employees and agents of MPAA,RIAA, et al are NOT invitees to use the service, are in fact DISALLOWED due to previous and current activities meant to intimidate and harass other users, and that entry into the service past that point by these visitors is unauthorized, is trespassing, and is a violaton of certain sections of Title 18 of USC code .

BOYCOTT THE BASTARDS !

let me ask all of you this,if you have already bought the album ,and you want to copy it to cd ,i know there are ways to copy it using certain hook-ups and software,but isnt it easier just to download from someone who already has it on cd?why of course it is.but according to the riaa that is considered copyright infringement.what a load of bullshit,i've already paid for the right to have that album and to use it when and how i want.what i hear is if you make yourself a copy that is considered illegal.that can only point to one thing in my mind.greed plain and simple greed.they think that if they scare the shit out of quite a few people that they can force.... thats right force them to go buy music.to me if i've already bought the music in whatever format then i will do whatever i please with it and the riaa can kiss my ass.right in the crack!!!!!and as for you doug77i bet you work for the riaa or they are slipping a few bills in your garter belt just like a good stripper or whore would want!!!!move your head away from there ass long enough to get a breath there doug and maybe you'll smell alittle truth in the air instead of the shit you are smelling!!!

I agree with all of you and it's very unrealistic that with user-by-user lawsuits the RIAA can make a dent in the MP3 revolution of music. Anyway, I'm honestly a little concerned about getting a lawsuit myself. I used to share a little over a thousand songs but it was just for a couple of weeks. Since then i would quickly download a couple things and then log off. Do you think that's enough for them to have put me on their list?

im sharing over 2000 right now.... no lawsuits yet.....

I have been watching this RIAA thing go on since the mid 60`s ..reel to reel came out, now you can jack into your stereo and record off the radio and your turntable.. they bitched about copyright infringement, 8 tracks came out .. same thing ..cassettes , now cd`s..they complain about artists not getting their fair share .. but I guess I have never seen a broke artist,other than the ones who piss away millions and want the consumer to fund their drug habits .. this isn`t about the artists .. its about corporate greed pure and simple .. what you are seeing here is fear on the RIAA`s part .. the times they are a changin and the recording industry just plain doesn`t like it, they no longer have control over the lowly consumer , they can no longer charge exorbitant prices for what amounts to garbage about 80 percent of the time .. face it , how many cd`s have you bought , got them home and found out they had one good song on them ... the rest of the thing is pure fluff .. you just paid 15 bucks for one damn song .. thats whats going on with p2p ..for the first time consumers have the ability to put songs on a cd that make it worth listening to .. also .. there are people out there searching for that one song from an earlier era that you cant find .. but someone has on their hard drive.. instead of paying 15 bucks for that one song you can download it and put together a decent cd of older music..this is the same song that has been playing for 40 years now and in each case the consumer has ended up winning ..now the riaa wants to be able to crash your computer to stop file sharing .. gestapo tactics only come when fear sets in .. they see themselves losing and are resorting to drastic measures .. but only if the people let them ..and i will certainly go as far underground as i need to go to get music ..just because I can

Hootie..you ain't never seen a broke artist? Boy, I sure have..thousands of them. Struggling in day jobs to support their RIAA habit.

Oh no the RIAA crashed my computer, what do i do now? omfg! help plz! oh wait i'll just get my windows CD out and format, reconnect to the net and download numerous filesharing programs again, just to piss u off more. Time taken: 2 hours tops if u have a shit computer.
If they think that they can crash a computer and that person who was assumedly sharing a few thousand mp3s isn't going to go download some more, they my friends are profoundly naive.

P2P users are like dogs, when they smell fear they attack!

An afterthought for the people bitching about the artists losing money, if the artist is in the music business solely for the money, they aren't writing music for the right reasons.

Granted most artists are blatantly in it for the money: anyone from the UK will know this all too well(FastFood Rockers anyone?).
The entire music business is a joke, even in calling it the music business i have just degenerated its image. Music is an art, if people want to buy the art thats supposed to be a bonus right? Music should return to being an art and stop being a business. We're overlooking who is really to blame. Us as consumers have destroyed an artform and turned it into a business.

And that is why i pay zer0 and lose zer0. Artists should take on the fact that consumers no longer want to consume they're music, we want to listen and it ends there. The problem is the RIAA have realised this and seen the fire at the end of the tunnel. What we have in P2P music sharing is the ultimate weapon to completely destroy a captilitised business and bring it back to medieval times i.e. when Music was ART and not PRODUCT. I don't think anyone has really realised what we are about to do. The arms-race analogy that is used in this article is all to real for the RIAA, except this time, its not who can build the most, this will end in the destruction of one or the other, there is no two ways about it.

Anybody who buys a CD copied or not, is degrading the art form that is music further.

Bloody hell, i've just seen the light.

Plus anyone who is trying to argue that a computer nerd is actually going to go get a life rather than developing the ultimate music business destroying weapon is sadly mistaken. 1 in 50 people (in the western world) have a fairly good knowledge of at least 1 programming language. Still think computer nerds are a technological minority?

well said

One Track Mind....

Well I guess you told me! Yes, if I hadn't been trying to throw up my response in a hurry on my way to doing something more important here in the real world, or if this forum had an edit feature, I suppose I would have been able to catch and correct those minor TYPOS (believe me son, I can spell your ass out the door....) By the way, Mr. (or Mrs.) English Professor, what does "We painstakingly heard our music collections. " mean? Is that supposed to be "hoard", or what? And this; "How do you consider yourself a "free thinker" when you cant even spell the word?". I guess spelling is important but punctuation is just too complex for you. I also find the irony of one who calls himself "One Track Mind" attacking a "free thinker" particularly amusing...

Before you shoot your big fucking mouth off at anybody, have your editor proofread your own work, asshole. I guess you were out buying the latest Metallicrap when you were supposed to be in Grammar class.

Obviously, this is not the place to start debating the complicated details of capitalism or such, but trust me; American Predatory Capitalism is not working and will not survive. This is not just my opinion; this is the opinion of many (majority of world opinion) who are more qualified than I. I am, however, intelligent enough to study their opinions and the facts and form my own conclusions. Ask Argentina how they like American Capitalism and the World Bank and the IMF. Ask them how their economy is doing. Ask them how their currency is doing. They are the direct result of American economic interference. Ask your neighbours how their retirement funds are doing or if they are having any luck getting work in this BushJuniorInc. economy and his 2.5 million unemployment numbers. We need a new kind of economy that works for more people, not just the elites at the top of the pyramid. We need "sustainable capitalism" (remember that term, as you will be hearing it more and more in the future - remember, you heard it here first!) with an emphasis on working with what we have. We live in a finite world and we are quickly coming up against the boundaries of this finite planet. If we ruin our environment, where are we going to go? Mars? We will become as extinct as the dinosaurs. That kind of (fore) thought just might be a bit beyond your mental grasp, however. "Capitalism encourages FREE society!" - this is just so pathetic (and a terrific oxymoron) that it stands on it's own...I'll be teaching a course soon, you should enroll.

Now, I know you are an asshole because you defend Metallica and their actions. I was a huge Metallica fan right up to the Black album (from "Kill 'Em All" on - I still have it all on vinyl). This is the point that these assholes decided to hire Bob Rock to produce a "more commercially viable" product, as Bob Rock is very well known for producing that kind of music (Def Leppard, Bryan Adams, Bon Jovi!!!!). From that point on, their music has gone down the crapper. I was also one of those 300,000 or so Metallica fans that was banned from Napster, courtesy of Lars. Let's see now, am I going to go out and financially support this band that has attacked their own fans? Will people support the RIAA after being sued by them? Maybe you would. Do you think Cliff Burton (who?!) would appreciate doing a video with Tom fuckin Cruise? I think not. Even Jason Newsted couldn't stand them, and left. Corporate Sell Outs...

So listen up, asshole! If you want to come here and join in on constructive debate, then be my guest. When you come in shooting off your trap before your brain can catch up, you will be corrected.

Now Fuck Off and take your buddy Doug77 with you. What ever happened to 'ol Doug77....?

Cheers to Jazzmary2U, who gets it!

hi everyone

1st of all who the fuck is dis doug77 bitch?!?! He sounds like one of dem riaa bitchs.
2nd of all when the software company see how much tha riaa's makin their gonna do the same thing on sueing everyone.
3rd downloading shit off tha net isnt stealing its sharing. You see some kid walkin down tha street singing his favorite song well riaa better sue him too then cuz he stole the music and put it into his brains and started singing it. I guess they have to sue everybody that ever copyed music or recorded movies off the tv then.


FUCK THE RIAA they aint shit

In response to Doug77 and all others like him:

1. I'm a Geek and proud of it.
2. Eccentricity should be normal. For is not eccentricity but an extension of individuality and freedom?
3. The geeks shall inherit the world

Just some things to chew on. I am tolerant of anything but I prefer it if people actually think before they talk. It makes the world a much more understandable place.

Keep posting, guys...good thread.

Well im not a geek i just like getting shit off tha net for free. Even if the riaa bitchs win there will always be a internet sharing site.
The riaa bitchs will always be around to sue people and get our money from people that "steals" from the internet...if its on the net probably thousands of people already downloaded it well all i got to say to the riaa is good luck finding millions of people that "steals" from the net

FUCK THA RIAA

I don't consider file sharing stealing. I use it to preview stuff I've never heard before. I mean, why go spent 19-21.99 on a cd and then get it home and find out its total shit? An oft-incorrect 30s sample offered at FYE isn't enough either.

And then when I get it home, it is my right to copy it, store it on my PC, or any other media I choose. They fuck with that right, and I'll fuck with them.

I'm waiting for my subpeona. 'll get to court with a massive box of cds matching the shit they tried to sue me for downloading (If I like the music, I usually buy the cd) and laugh in their faces. They can't, after all, sue me for downloading shit I own. And they can't prove I bought it after I stole it off the internet. The fuckbags....

Fuck Cary Sherman and his RIAA. Fuck them with a big rubber dick. Then break it off in his ass and beat him with the other end of it. And then skullfuck him with a broomhandle.