WASHINGTON, June 4 (Reuters) - Verizon Communications (VZ) must reveal the names of two customers suspected of distributing hundreds of songs online after a U.S. appeals court declined to interfere, a recording-industry trade group said on Wednesday.

After a U.S. court ordered Verizon to reveal the names of the two suspected song-swappers in April, the telecommunications company asked a higher court to protect their identities while it appealed the case.

But the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington declined to issue a stay, the Recording Industry Association of America said, meaning the two customers could now face legal action from the industry.

The RIAA took Verizon to court last summer to get it to reveal the names of customers who download music for free using "peer to peer" networks. Verizon says such a move would violate customer privacy and force it to police its customers' Internet usage.

"The Court of Appeals decision confirms our long-held position that music pirates must be held accountable for their actions, and not be allowed to hide behind the company that provides their Internet service," RIAA President Cary Sherman said in a statement. "We look forward to Verizon's speedy compliance with this ruling."

A Verizon spokeswoman was not immediately available for comment.

Looks like some more judges got new cars and nice houses.

That just pisses me off even more...

End the madness NOW...

DAMNIT,

this WAS America!

This SHOULD be against the law. Reading things like this pisses me off.

no ITS NO LONGER AMERICA. The land of the "FREE" it's a joke country run by greed.

Well...the law is the law. Can't really blame the RIAA for going after people sharing their files. I'd rather have them go after individual infringers than try and destroy P2P entirely.

Hopefully people will now realize that sharing hundreds of songs will probably get them busted. It pays to be a leech.

*Sigh* I rember reading in school, how the american jusic system was based on the assumption that you were innocent, untill you were _proven_ guilty. The media has been leaning twards guilty untill found not guilty, but even then the jury made the wrong decision, and the corprate world has alwase been guilty untill proven innocent, because its just to exspensive to assume innocence. The Justice system is just catching up to the rest of the world, and the rest of the world is either to apathetic, or to entertained by the assuption of guilt to give a damn.

Just out of curiousity, it has been nearly a year since these two Verizon customers were first accused of trading unauthorized mp3s. Now, nearly a year later, how can it even be proven that they were? Even if the RIAA has their identities, they would need more than that. (Or they SHOULD need more than that, depending upon how corrupt the law is) What if the accused pirates used a file shredding program to erase all mp3s on their hard drives. Even if their computers were confiscated, there is no longer any proof. Does anyone agree with this?

Supposedly they take screenshots, showing the username, and IP address. The IP address is tracked to Verizon, and under section 512 of the DMCA, ANYBODY can get the info....Great news for pedophiles..I've already contacted John Walsh, no answer as of yet.

M1 -- The copyright law was created to protect the authors.

Not the "intellectual property owners."

You can extend the copyright of a song a million years, but if Sony owns it already, the author is, to put it succinctly -- fucked.

He'll never get another dime. All of this is bullshit.

And I'm going to be sharing thousands of songs. The Internet Archive is going to help.

The RIAA is not invited.

We'll just skip the audio portion of the 20th century.

Many years from now people will be like "So they didn't talk, or make any sort of sound for an entire century?!?!"

M1 any relation to musicfann by any chance?

M1 go take a hike. Why are you even on here if you're an RIAA bootlicker eh?

America was founded on greed. Screw the RIAA laws, period.

I could careless about some fat cat sitting behind his empire at a record company.

this makes me want to open up my entire collection of MP3's dating back to the 50's and share em the reson why I dont anymore is because I dont have the hard drive space or believe me, I'd open the RIAA vault!

RIAA President Cary Sherman said in a statement. "We look forward to Verizon's speedy compliance with this ruling."

Two words: pompous jackass

This ruling changes nothing for me. Only I've gained alot of respect for Verizon for fighting this until the bitter end. They have been the only company that really caused the RIAA to dig deep into their pockets to win (BUY) this case. I will continue to subscribe to Verizon DSL. And as for file sharing, I only share authorized independent MP3's. Screw the RIAA and the labels they represent, they can all piss off. I will never buy another cd produced by any label under their umbrella. As I said before, I've turned to independent music, where fans are treated with respect and not like criminals.

Its a shame that Verizon will lose even more customers over this ruling. Their DSL service has been dropped to $35 a month to attract more customers.

But of course, the record companies are the ONLY ones that are allowed to make money in today's economy.

Thanks for posting the link above. People who are interested in RIAA not becomming the downfall of the freedom of information should support it because really it's all we have right now.

The releasing of the names of these poor individuals is a crime to our country and constitution. I feel it is a form of terrorism and discrimination to point out 1, 2, or 3 users to the entire world just to prove they have the power to do it. It's a terror tatic without question. Log in to Kazaa right now. You will notice around 3 million users online and almost a billion files shared at one time. Most illegal I would venture to say..

RIAA knows they cannot prosecute everyone, so they are trying to make exmples out of a few plain and simple. These people will need our support.

The only good thing about this is the backfire effect. It might just piss enough people off that new technologies in peer to peer will arise. No one will ever be able to trace where files came from by ISP,IP,username, etc. True Anonymous P2P. Wouldnt that be fun to see RIAA scramble to figure something like that out. They are winning some battles but there is no way they will win this war. Too bad they are so technically inept that they cannot see where this could and probably will go. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

-fett

I'm from Canada and I get sick every time I hear this. How can Americans allow their society to be corrupted by bribery? I get even more disgusted that they can prosecute me for downloading music. If I was an American citizen I would be sure that I did everything possible to get rid of the RIAA and their web of corruption.

Jprime -- We're working on it.

The law is the law? The US constitution say a Negro vote is 3/5 of a white person. Thats the law, m1,(which may stand for MORON).

Hey,
I have to put my two cents in here. I hate to say it but I do believe that swaping music that artists have said they don't want to be is illeagle and wrong, inless you have the actuall CD/Tape/Record/8Track/whatever. However, If you don't have the actual music then it is illeagle, but, I do do things that are Illeagle so it doesent bother me ^.^However, if my ISP has to give up names Ima be pissed, becuase I am a big Privacy advocite and hate a lot of things that go along in the world nowadays, especially the Patriot Act. Anywho, you REALLY shouldn't trade songs you don't really have becuase you, in inessence, don't own the songs. However, I do it anyway since I do a LOT of illeagle things. I DL everything and copy everything. so, it really doesnt bother me. To me, the Record industry needs to start to accecpt it and make us... a VITAL custamer base again. Im serious. I only buy CDs that should be bought. Anyway, thats just my two cents
Quoteing - leflaw
Date: June 5, 2003 @ 2:35 AM
The law is the law? The US constitution say a Negro vote is 3/5 of a white person. Thats the law, m1,(which may stand for MORON).

Sorry, My bad, but up there where I quoted Leflaw, where does it say that EXACTLY? Please tell me.

I'm screwed.

http://noriaa.the-erm.

Some of you people are the exact reason why everyone sees P2P as just another free music outlet. Thanks for making the RIAA's case even stronger.

Sorry if your illegal free music providers are now in danger of being sued. I could care less about them and you. Music isn't free unless the owners of it say it is, you guys really need to accept that fact and move on with your lives. All of the boycotting in the world won't make the RIAA suddenly give away their products.

My goal is to ensure that P2P technology is around for people who want to use it legally, not the ones who want to get the latest mainstream garbage for free.

M1,

Your comments really PISSED ME OFF!!!

What about those of us that have paid thousands of dollars for music? Then the industry changes formats (LP to CD) and eliminates convenient ways to get songs (what ever happened to the single and 45rpm?). Because the RIAA is throwing such a pissy fit, I am finding it hard to convert some of my favorite albums (of the over 1200 I BOUGHT through the years) from LP to CD. P2P file sharing was a godsend, since I don't really have the facilities to record these myself.

What really gets me about your comments is how you are missing the point. This isn't just about downloading music files. This is about our country and freedom of speech. Since when are our names served up on a silver platter, and our right to PRIVACY violated? Rapists and Pedophiles seem to have more rights than a customer of Verizon does. Since when are we GUILTY until proven INNOCENT? If you download music files, according to the laws that are passed, you are guilty, even if you OWN a copy of the music and were allowed by law to make "FAIR USE" copies. WHY?? Because GREEDY, CORPORATE CONGLOMERATES that own music BRIBED our government to pass laws that said so!!!

Wake up you moron, because our government is doing NOTHING to stop the CORPORATE CONGLOMERATES from taking and controlling our lives. Its up to us, and it starts with P2P. P2P exists because there was a need that the Music Industry was NOT meeting. And by fighting P2P and Internet music, the Music Industry continues to show what assholes they really are.

Well even though they may have screen shots of these people "trading" file they still have to prove that the files are in their possession. Right?
Hope these people know who they are and formatted their HD and hid the burned cds

NO to mention that section 512 of the DMCA that the RIAA has used in the Verizon case, allows anyone CLAIMING to own a copyright to get a supeana with no proof, no judicial oversight. With this info the RIAA can then do what it wants. Sue you, send Guido and the boys to the house to rough you up, etc..

Not only that it gives anyone access to anyone elses information. Scenario: Pedophile has an email exchanged the a kid he met in a chat room. He reads the headers and gets the IP. A quick check reveals the IP number it came from, and another quick check reveals the ISP. (takes all of 5 seconds). Armed with that information, he heads on down to the courthouse, finds the clerk, fills out the form and is issued a supeana for the ISP to divulge the info. Name and address are at his disposal. Sure he must likely lied to obtain it. But do you think that will stop them? I don't either.

The way current copyright law is written something is copyrighted the minute it is created. No need for immediate registration, or copyright symbol. Therefore, if you have emailed someone they have YOUR copyrighted material on their computer. So the courts decision that a reasonable belief is enough works for everyone. Even if they delete it, it's still in the cache. Plus it would be recoverable with computer forensic software as well. Under the law, as it is currently written, if you visited any website, you have their copyrighted material on your computer. (if not in your saved files, but in your cache) GUILTY! And all it takes a trip to the courthouse to find out who you are.

Hello,
i am currently writing from the beautiful country of el salvador. i will be here for about 5 more days. hopefully verizon will take this all the way to the supreme court, but even if they get the names, people will probably flock more to kazaa in protest. here is el salvador, i went to an internet cafe, and kazaa was on the machine, let me see, will they sue the people in el salvador. of course not, they have nothing. my view of file sharing has changed a little because of this. file sharing is forever here to stay, even people here know that. the attorney mr. marks of the riaa pretty much convinced me he has no regard for the constitution when he said that if you have nothing to fear if you are innocent.
take care all and keep up the fight!

Verizons been stalling, but it cant keep this up much longer. Soon its going to have to hand over those names. Once the RIAA has an esbalished precident and is scareing other ISPs they could start a campaign to locate, identify and set the lawyers on p2p users (almost certinly only the ones shareing a lot of music) to discourage people. It will probably work too.

I saw an article this morning that stated that the 4 people that the RIAA is wanting the names of, have been notified. They know who they are.

Good. It's not me or my sister or my family.

That's way more relief than I can tell you right now.

That said, I'm already budgeting in the $10 for each of the defendants in this next round of litigation, just like I contributed $10 to the Google-network students.

-- Funksaw.

Hey M1, it sure does pay to be a leech eh? Look I understand that these groupies are trying to protect "their" works. For some strange reason though I think that they are going about this the wrong way and eventually it is going to end up a very costly defeat for them. I for one have substantially decreased my d/l because I dont want these bastards annoying me. Even if they win this they are going to scare off potential customers. Yes artists deserve to be paid for their works. but
even if peer to peer activity substantially decreased, consumers who never used them would probably be scared to use the legit site for fear that the sound files may contain codes that will snitch to the rec labels if users want to reformat it to their liking. Right now I recommend we watch this very carefully. We'll see when this is over who the riaa is gonna blame for lost sales. Good luck Riaa, protect "your" works, sue p2p users, but remember you got alot of eager customers waiting. What will the choice be?

For clarification: I was a "casual" user starting back in 1998, when I thought it wasn't illegal. Then the DMCA was passed, and I didn't find out about THAT until 2002. So it could have been me. I grabbed mostly rare stuff. No big pop/rock hits cause most of them didn't interest me. Alot of stuff I heard off college radio. Stuff that I wouldn't know how to get at all if it wasn't for P2P.

My sister used P2P too - to grab the Jpop stuff she likes but which she can't get in the US without paying upwards of $40 a CD after markup & shipping.

Okay, it's illegal. I admit that. I don't agree with the law, but I have to admit that it is the law.

It's not because it's free, though. It's just *better.* It's a better way to get exposed to music than the "same 40" radio stations, and it's a better way to see if you like something before you buy it.

Now, I don't use it. I don't listen to that much music now either. Correlation?

-- Funksaw.

If it's onething that pisses me off the most is the people that support the RIAA. what have they ever done for you? Do you work for a label? Why do you care? No supporter seems to answer these questions. They'd rather spin their propoganda. I've spent thousands of dollars on entertainment including high speed access just so I can download. As far as I'm concerned I DO pay. I'm not downloading or sharing for free and what I DO with my internet time and money is my own business. Let the RIAA come a knocking and I'll be waiting but I dont think they'd want to me with me. I'm a gay female, and I'll get every gay group on my side. Welp, time for me to open up my drive. RIAA likes to pick on kids. Well RIAA Im not a kid so come get me, I'll be waiting. Think I'll share all my movies too. I got over 20gigs of music movies and very rare Beavis & Butthead episodes. I got over a hundred episodes.

soooooooooooooooooo lol.

see u on P2P

Think I'll put this shit to the test and see just how long it takes for the RIAA/MPAA to track me down. I've been sharing for almost ten years either between news groups and MIRC. May have ta go back to MIRC this week. lets see if my new ISP provider handles my overflow.

Personally, I think that things are beyond legal remedy. That in order to solve the problem, those who are targeted under these lawsuits find ways outside of the legal system to solve their problems.

I'd be more specific, but I'm posting from an American computer and I could be arrested for being more specific.

-- Funksaw.

Of course, if Verizon doesn't know who you are, or where - how can they hand you over to the scum ?

SOME folks pay their provider by proxy, or in such a fashion that they cannot be individually identified by that provider.

Some even go as far as to connect in such a fashion that their location is difficult, if not impossible, to determine.

Most of those folk were dismissed and shouted down as paranoiacs not long ago.

I'd bet they're laughing pretty hard now.

-User

To reiterate 'INeedALover's' points of June 5:

Another scenario: A brutal, repressive dictatorship searching for "fugitive" dissidents who emigrated to America to escape political persecution, seeking lists of all customers of, say, Verizon. Who knows if that list the RIAA was bullying Verizon for, by some strange coincidence, also showed names of emigres from, say, Cuba seeking to escape from that country's dictator, Fidel Castro? That means that such people would (let's put it this way) be doomed to an unmentionable fate.

But in a sense, this development (a more appropriate headline: "Verizon Folds Like Cheap Fan Before RIAA Thugs") has effectively sunk us to the level of such a country, where ratting on others to the secret police is not only permitted, but mandatory.

And who knows if the judges who've been bought off by the RIAA-MPAA copyright junta (every bit as brazenly corrupt as the goings-on in a Third World banana republic) haven't somehow been moonlighting as jurists in Cuba, sitting in judgment of the 75 dissidents who were recently sentenced to 28-year prison terms?

And finally: What exactly will it take for the public to FINALLY, FINALLY rise up and fight back against these out-of-control monsters? Someone being killed? (And I'm not talking about a recent case in the Chelsea section of New York City where an African immigrant was killed by police around a warehouse where pirated CD's were being stored.) After all, as Edmund Burke once said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Alas, this trend will only worsen in the wake of the recent FCC decision to further give away the public airwaves to these multiple-tentacled Goliaths.

W-B, I can agree with some of what you say, paranoid as it sounds (jmho), but to say ..quote.."...(a more appropriate headline: "Verizon Folds Like Cheap Fan Before RIAA Thugs)..." isn't quite true. Verizon DID and ARE actively pursuing the remedies they are legally entitled to under the same laws they are being held to. Maybe I misunderstood your statement. Maybe you're saying that would/could be a headline if what you say is true. I don't know.
I personally applaud Verizon for standing up and being noticed. For saying "we have a privacy policy in place for a reason and we are going to fight tooth and nail to see that our CUSTOMERS best interests are being served". Note the emphasis in the word CUSTOMER. If the Riaa-Mafia would remember that customers=consumers=money, then this whole thing would have been over long ago, if indeed it had ever gotten started.
oh.. and m1.. go piss up a rope. Get educated. Read the forums, past threads and some very good websites. This isn't about stealing. As a lot of people before me have pointed out, it's about the music. It's about being able to use the rights that were granted LONG ago, and those rights being taken away. Privacy, Fair Use, all of that. The 4th Ammendment as well as others are being trampled upon by the very body of government that is supposed to protect these guarantees. In that sense, imho, it's about the dollar dollar bill.
ttmmm