USC has welcomed students back to school with a letter admonishing them not to use P2P file sharing systems, or risk losing their internet connection, further disciplinary action, and possible fines and jailtime. Welcome Back.
The letter is below.

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Dear Student: This email is being sent to all students at USC to make sure they have the same information about copyright compliance.

Introduction

The University of Southern California is committed to the education of its students. Part of the educational process includes the provision of internet connections for students in classrooms, residences, libraries, eating establishments, and other places on campus. Students who live off campus may also access the internet through USC's computers via modems. Over the past two years the university has made efforts to make students aware of policies governing the use of its computing facilities and systems to enhance their educational experience and keep them from violating university, state, federal polices and laws that would negatively impact their student status.

As a part of this ongoing effort we want to alert you to the fact that many of you are risking complete loss of access to the USC computer system and both disciplinary and legal sanctions. Below is an overview of how students are placing themselves in jeopardy by inappropriately using USC's internet connections.

Is File Sharing Worth Losing Student Privileges at USC?

You are undoubtedly aware of the development of file-sharing software such as Napster, Gnutella, and Hotline, also known as peer-to-peer networks ("P2P networks"), and the fact that the use of P2P networks to share copyrighted material, such as movies, music and software, can violate the rights of copyright owners. As you probably know, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals recently ruled that the majority of Napster users are directly infringing federal copyright law by sharing music files without the permission of musical artists and recording companies who own these materials.

Copyright infringement occurs whenever you make a copy of any copyrighted work - songs, videos, software, cartoons, photographs, stories, novels - without purchasing that copy from the copyright owner, or obtaining permission some other way. Infringement also occurs when one person purchases an authorized copy, but allows others to reproduce further "pirated" copies. For example, if a student purchases a CD and creates an MP3 copy on his or her hard drive, and then uses a P2P network to share that MP3 copy with others, both the student and those making copies are infringing the owners' copyright rights and violating federal copyright law. USC prohibits any infringement of intellectual property rights by any member of the USC community. As an academic institution, USC's purpose is to promote and foster the creation of intellectual property. It is antithetical to this purpose for USC to play any part, even inadvertently, in the violation of the intellectual property rights of others. The USC policy regarding student use of USC computing resources clearly states that a student who reproduces or distributes copyrighted materials in electronic form without permission from the material's owner may be removed from the USC computer system and face further disciplinary action.

Further, infringing conduct exposes the infringer to serious legal penalties. In response to the growth of infringement through P2P networks, the recording and motion picture industries have increased their efforts to identify and stop those who download unauthorized music and video files. Organizations such as the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) and the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) can and do monitor P2P users, obtaining "snapshots" of the users' Internet protocol addresses, the files they are downloading or uploading from their P2P directories, the time that downloading occurs, and the Internet service provider (ISP) through which the files travel. (Gathering this information is not a violation of the users' privacy rights, because the user has voluntarily made his or her P2P directory available for public file sharing.)

Once this information is obtained, RIAA, MPAA and others can demand that an ISP remove any infringing copies from its system and may obtain a court order directing the ISP to identify the infringing user and to cut off the infringing user's access to the ISP's system.

Further, if the user is determined to have infringed copyright rights, whether through P2P networks or other means, he or she can also be subject to sanctions such as the destruction of all unauthorized copies and monetary damages. In some cases, criminal sanctions - imprisonment and fines - may be imposed.

As an ISP for its students and faculty, USC has received an increasing number of notices from RIAA and MPAA identifying the IP addresses of USC students who are sharing copies of music and videos without authorization. USC will be forwarding such notices to the individual students involved and taking further steps to ensure that the infringing conduct ceases immediately, including, where necessary, depriving that student of any access to the USC computer system and further disciplinary sanctions. Obviously, if the complaining organization decides to take further steps to identify and prosecute the infringer, such conduct also runs the risk of incurring sanctions under federal copyright law, which can include monetary damages, and, in cases that are sufficiently extreme, criminal penalties - both imprisonment and fines. Copyright law provides no exception from liability for university students.

You should be aware that sharing music, videos, software, and other copyrighted material is a violation of law and can expose you and those with whom you share to legal sanctions, as well as sanctions under USC's own policy. Please do not put yourself, your friends, parents, and USC in the awkward position of having to confront such issues. We trust that you will take this issue seriously and conduct yourself accordingly.

Sincerely, Jerry D. Campbell Dean of Libraries and Chief Information Officer

Sincerely, Michael L. Jackson Vice President for Student Affairs

Big deal, go home and do it.

bring 'em on i'll tak 'em all. They are violating my rights by restricting me from p2p networks, hehe. well i am not at colage yet, and i'll do my sharing here at home.
What about Gnucleus LAN? That can be set up in colages and form an internal network on a multi-player game protocal, it is not gnutella, nor real p2p, it is more or less a p2p2p. kinda like p2p, but not.
any ways who cares?

With grammar like that, you won't be going to 'colage' for a long while.

i will never go to collage if they start bending to the will of the copyright industry.

it seems all these collages think that they can just violate law like that. IF they were to spy on their users, their users can sue on the charges that they violated code i dont remember of the Electronic Communication Protection Act, which has a code on the privacy rights of users.

The problem is that the statemnt is inaccurate. for example:
"Copyright infringement occurs whenever you make a copy of any copyrighted work - songs, videos, software, cartoons, photographs, stories, novels - without purchasing that copy from the copyright owner, or obtaining
permission some other way." Even the best copyright attorneys reiterate that some copying is clearly fair use, and that it is not per se a violation of the copyright laws to make copies.

For example, you visit a website. The page is copyrighted. As you view the page a "copy" is downloaded to your cache. Under this statement, you have made an illegal copy. It can still be found on your computer after you leave the website. Indeed even the webcasting ruling charges webcasters for those incedntal copies used to stream music to you. That's the RIAA's doing. Rick Boucher and Jay Inslee's bill seeks to exempt those incidental copies.

Gnutella hosts are down, including limewire and bearshare.net tried all of em. any news on this??? couldn't connect via my ggnutella client. Has the RIAA gotten hold of em too or what?

The warning mentions Napster allot and Hotline (what is that?).

Anyway, what would happen if the student file sharing activity increased, instead of decreased, because of this notice? Would they take away internet access to a large number of their students?

Perhaps a professor at USC who is familiar with copyright law might find this warning interesting.

BTW, I just tried Limewire and it works.

This letter makes me frustrated and sick in so many ways. Colleges have NO CLUE what's going on here, and they just want to remain safe from the law, so they sent this out. When I goto college, I'll just get cable or dsl from an isp like OOL or roadrunner or verizon, not this college stuff if this is what they will do.

had to switch clints to login gnutella. Limewire was down all morning and most of the afternoon.
I'm on ir right now. There's gotta be ways for the college's to work around the block? Colleges should not give in to the RIAA. Neither should the ISP that customer's are paying for.

Saying big deal and go home and do it? what if the RIAA reaches our homes? That's next on their collective minds ya know?

This is so hilarious... I think that horsefucker's observation is the greatest - what if this INCREASES use of gnutella on campus. lol... talk about advertisement eh?

Most people don't have T1 lines at home, so that would be a real downfall. I say it should be easy to find a way around the system... and I'd love to see USC actualy prosecute with that shit... man... that'd be the queue for the 60's if anything right? Where's my music!!! heh.

Anyways... funny. I think it'll help us more than hurt.

The college is paranoid about litigation.
It is taking the RIAA sabre rattling seriously and in doing so, playing right into their hands.
Similar attempts by the RIAA to supress technology which allows copying and distributing music freely have failed in the past. It will probably fail again, the only thing they can do is scare people away from file sharing with empty threats.
I wouldn't want to be held responsible for what people do with my computer without my knowledge or consent, would you? That's what this is all about.

I agree about just how naive they are and that they want to protect themselves so badly, but does anyone recall any lawsuites brought against any colleges for students using their lines as a method of mass copyright infringement in the past? I don't.

I'd also like to know how the hell they plan to enforce these rules. Random polygraph tests? Monitoring all student activity on their OWN computers? I hope the activity does go up.

I really don't blame the schools for not wanting students using their computers for purposes that are irrelevant to their course work. Whether file sharing becomes truly illegal or not, it is still a controversial issue and they don't want the hassle.

If I had a roommate that was downloading kiddie sado-porn with my computer I'd be concerned.
I don't care if he sits around all day watching Shirley Temple movies and jacking off with sandpaper, but if he wants to do freaky stuff, he can use his own bloody machine and internet account.

Schools should protest these labels' bullshit by all means.

Education and free information exchange are infinitely more important to our species than the interests of some idiotic recording industry.

The problem with this is that, in many universities, the administrative personnel are complete idiots, who never got a real education.
They are morons, who majored in nonsense like Education or *-American Studies, which I find ironic.
Sometimes their behavior is also governed by bribes and intimidation from the industry.

wow ain't that some crap?

in reply to betta447 about how they can monitor what you dl

All dl's on any university campus travel through a central server which is constantly copying material traveling through it for reasons of keaping the server up and running and to provide data on the amount of info traveling through the server. If the university suspects you are dling illegal content they can just monitor your computer port and see exactly what you are dl and even make coppies of it because you are using their network.

Well I would just like to see what happens when word of this letter gets out. Students are probably the ones who are most aware of the issues surrounding this, and if the USC wants to take this stance, I'm sure some students would think twice about going there.

I hope this sort of thing gets wide publicity, I will certainly spread it around as much as I can, and I also sent the USC an email saying how damaging that letter could be to their enrolment numbers.

good point horsefucker(I just wanted to say horsefucker he he he)

Hotline was the forerunner to all of the "filesharing" programs. Developed by a 14 year old Austrailian in 1996. It was originally for Macs, and later, about 1997 I think, ported over to WinDoze. It was around before any of the current programs were. It involved actually setting up a server, and using a client to download.
It was sold to a company, and they maintained (along with others) a dynamically generated list of servers that was up and running on the web. It was very hit or miss, you either had to know the person and request permission, and passwords, ot usually click on a bunch of ads to get access. Napster, Gnutella and others basically combined the services, and made them easier to use. for more info check out
http://www.homenethelp.com/p2p/hotline/index.asp

Ok, just wondering if anyone here goes (or has recently be a student) at USC. Well, I am and I lived on campus for two years. Here's the deal:
First, having a fast connection to the school server and internet is awesome but it SUCKS when the server is down. They determined there to be so many problems because people were constantly downloading stuff from filesharing programs. My roommate used to leave her computer on ALL DAY downloading stuff. They're just trying to protect the network.
Second, is case anyone forgot, USC was sued by Metallica for filesharing by students. They DO NOT want this to happen again and it is easily prevented by telling students what they can and cannot download. No crime, no USC responsibility.
Finally, the fact is that USC has the right to do this. It's a private institution and just as your parents can tell you not to use the car, so USC can monitor (and stop) students from doing certain things with USC property.
If this pisses you off, don't go there! But I don't think it's really going to impact enrollment numbers. Really, if you're so obsessed with music downloading that you turn down admission to USC, you need to reevaluate your priorities. I love downloading music as much as the next person but we must not be stupid.

Also, college is spelled c-o-l-l-e-g-e, not the many number of ways it's been spelled in these posts!

It would affect my decision. I wouldn't enroll at a school that restricts its user access like that.

Collage rules!

Luckily my school is in my neck of the woods so I just stay at home and don't worry about my school adopting more rules. And don't talk to me like I'm s-t-o-o-p-y-d wave, I know how to spell k-o-o-l-e-d-g-e so no need to correct me ahead of time . I arr edyoumakated think u vary mutsh

Colleges are just being pussies. they're afraid of the big bad RIAA and we all know it. College is nothing but party time and very little studying. american public is not that dumb everyone knows what goes on in colleges. they do everything but what they're supposed to be doing, studying. I can see restricting access if its becoming a network or overload issuse or bandwidth issue but don't be pussies about it. If that had been the case then downloading wouldn't have been allowed period, from the beginning not after they were sued.

They cowed my school into snail-mailing everyone a little note saying that Sony was taking action against the university. Everything here's behind a NAT and it's a real pain in the ass to run a server, but P2P worked just fine when I lived on campus. Also, I haven't found a public college yet that has any spine to speak of. Here, they get a legal threat and cave before the end of the first paragraph.

There have been bandwidth issues elsewhere in Michigan. The most glorified account I heard came from a sysadmin at U of M who had to shut down some guy's Ethernet port because at its peak, his 250GB warez/movie/MP3 server was requesting 46 GB/second and eating up 75% of their backbone. His mom had the audacity to call the Dean and complain about the university cutting off his Internet access. I'd say that's starting to get excessive, but that's just an opinion...

FOLKS,

NO MATTER WHAT DRESSING IS PUT ON THIS,
IT IS THE INFRINGEMENT OF OUR RIGHTS!!
NOW THE RIAA HAS SCHOOLS JOINING THEIR CRUSADE AGAINST PERSONAL FREEDOM! NORMALLY INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION SUPPORT FREEDOM OF CHOICE. THOSE THAT DO NOT SHOULD BE SUSPECTED OF RECEIVING REVENUES FROM THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY IN EXCHANGE FOR RESTRICTING OUR RIGHTS. DOWN WITH THE TROJANS!!!!!

Unfortunately, the reality is that copying copyright material for distribution across p2p networks is illegal in most jurisdictions worldwide. The only way you can legally copy material is if you own an original, licensed copy - in that case, you can make as many copies as you like, provided they are for personal use only.

Looking at the letter USC sent above, I am surprised they haven't blocked access to the Gnutella system, which is what the university I am attending has done. It is a little tiresome, but it isn't going to stop me going to college, and I am not so badly stuck for music that I need to download more - there is plenty available on internal servers to keep me happy.

As for infringement of privacy rights, you will find most that on most corporate networks, the company/college will reserve the right to monitor your network traffic if they feel you are abusing the system, and agreement to this monitoring will be implicit in your work contract/enrolment application.

It is somewhat selfish to expect the recording industry allow this copyright infringement to continue without stepping in to curtail it. It is important to remember that many people are employed in the music industry and that money from record sales keeps these people in jobs. If any one of you were to come with a patentable idea for a product, you wouldn't like to have people coming along copying it, and self-righteously claiming that they have every right to do so becasue they can't/won't pay the license fees necessary to legally copy it. At the end of the day, copyright legislation is there to protect the intellectual copyright of individuals and organisations, and to prevent the unfair exploitation of that property. So while you are moaning about your right to copy music illegally, bear in mind that you are denying someone else their right to the protection of their intellectual property.

You sound like an industry shill, chiamera. Those jobs are predicated on setting themselves up as middlemen and raising the cost as high as possible. No job is EVER secure, unless you work in these industries, then it's sacrosanct, right?

Of course!

Cradle to grave employment, riding on the backs of the talent, while you get dollars to their pennies. Once upon a time, the recording labels supported the artists, now it's the other way around. It's patently unfair (most artists are only offered 7 year contracts with no job security, or health insurance whatsoever. Take for instance Mary Wells, who was in the Supremes. Her singing talent made MILLIONS for the label she was signed to, and yet she had so little at the end of her life that she died in a county sick bed in the charity ward at USC Medical Center. Does that sound like the labels are fighting over copyright to protect the artists, or their own sorry, greedy balls?), blatantly parasitic and raises costs unnecessarily. Don't be so quick to support music indudtry copyright holders, they've been cheating the people who actually do MAKE THE SONGS for decades.

It's time to squeeze the middlemen out like the pussy little zits they are.

Have you gone to Janis Ian's website and read her essay titled "The Internet Debacle"?
Here's the link:
http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html

It's really, really quite good. Too bad about Michael Greene, though. (NOT!)

Also, check out the essay on the whole music industry in general, written by Steve Albini. It's titled "The Problem With Music" here's the link to the essay on the Negativeland site (which is really good, you should check the whole Intellectual Propertyrights Issues page out):
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

Do you really feel sorry for these craven fools after all? Who's more important to you? Some mid-level sales rep. pissing away his life, in an office, making himself rich off of the talent of a composer, or the composer himself? As an artist myself, I'd rather see the whole industry die. Then the MUSICIANS might get paid what THEY are worth.

Deb.

Both you guys have great points, i'm with Debart on this one though.
Change can never occur without someone's apple cart getting toppled over in the process.
The record industy has been riding a gravy train of profit for decades without giving most composers/musicians their fair cut.
Now that quality recording is so cheap and promotion/distribution so easy thanks to computers, musicians can rid themselves of the recording industry shackles they've been forced to wear for decades, if a few record company folks are unemployed for awhile because of that, so be it.

I'm not saying I agree with the way the music industry does it's business, but there's a bigger issue here on how highly we value people's intellectual property rights. As an engineer, I would own a certain amount of IP and I wouldn't like to see it being used without my permission, and without being compensated by whoever uses it.

At the end of the day, regardless of how big or small their cut is, the artists still had to sit down and write the music, arrange it, go into a studio and record it, and publicise it afterwards, all of which takes a good deal of effort and time on their part, and they are entitled to a financial reward for their effort imho. I don't think it's all that fair to deprive the artist of their cut just to spite the record companies.

If the artists did cut out the middle man and sold their music directly on the web, how many of you out there would be willing to buy it, even at a reduced price? Personally, I am willing to pay a fair price for music because I like to listen to it, and buying through a record store, or online through a website is far more convenient than going onto a p2p network and searching for the songs that I want, then having to download maybe three or four different versions of the same track to try and find one that's been compressed properly.

The thing about musicians is they can always play live, that's the way they SHOULD make their living in my opinion, in that case, recording the music would serve an indirect, promotional purpose rather than a money making end in itself.
I do feel differently about the IP issue where, engineers, software developers and the like are concerened, they don't have the live performance option.

Consider that most graphical artists don't have a 'live' performance option either. Also consider that Photoshop came out a decade ago, and virtually rendered the hand skills of many a fine artist obsolete and put alot of artists out of business - who can compete with a 20 year old RISDI art school artfag with a computer and a few graphics apps?

Nobody said a peep or even noticed when that field went tits up. Do you think that I as a classicly trained illustrator really feel sorry for an IP tech?

Let's be honest here. It was the computer's ability to move pixels that made it an inevitable end to handmade commercial art. Now it's the very nature of that SAME machine that is going to shake out alot of programmers as well. That's evolution.

One of the things I've learned is that NO job is inviolate. Don't throw all your effort into the IP thing, chances are, it'll go the way of the wind too.

The only things that are worth worrying about is technology going _backwards_ and the 'toolmaking' ability to mold and manipulate the programs to suit your needs being destroyed by those who will do to you about the same that they have done to the musicians and composers.

Have you looked at the musician's 'Artist for Hire' contract that they get offered by the big labels? I hear from a few tech friends that they look suspiciously similar to the same things you have to sign if you work for a large software firm. Hmmm. Why is that?

Chimaera, did you actually go and read the article on the Negativland site? The artists AREN'T getting compansated for their work, not nearly to the degree they should,and in the case of many, not even enough to meet basic living costs.

The artists get fucked over royally. Enough so that it is incumbent upon each and every one who is able to, through boycott, or finding legitimate free sources, to undermine the industry. To it's demise, and ABSOLUTELY! I would buy CD's from artists that were producing and selling direct. As long as they were getting the lion's share of every dollar I spend, I don't have a problem at all.I do that now, with the local musicians in this area that have released indie CD's. Alot of it is a damn sight better too, less polished of course, but infinitely more diverse that the shit coming from the big labels.

I run my LimeWire app. most nights, and believe it or not, there's so little of merit online that actually does get my attention.

Beyond the obvious of the mp3 trading, is the other end of this, and that's the people like myself who do freely share work online. What is really so enraging in all of this, is that the filesharing, is a way for the limited budget artist like myself to get my stuff public. I cannot afford to buy space on a server and keep an internet connection at the same time. So you can image my indignation at the very thought that a forum that IS used for more than just crap rap songs is something to be censored or destroyed outright by a bunch of craven pricks..

Deb.

You guys are killing me. Most of you sound like your 12 or 13.

Regardless of anyone's opionion of how it should or shouldn't be, and no matter how many different experts offer their opionions, it's ILLEGAL! And you know it...you may not want it to be, but you it is. So to compensate, you freak out at letters like this...

It's funny how those who know they are doing something wrong/illegal always complain the most. I would love for it to be legal to share all files, but that's not the way it is. And we are all reminded of this every time we install new softwre and "agree" to the license which states you will not copy it, or break the CD-Rom seal which reads "if you break this seal you agree...". Wether or not your agree or disagree doesn't matter. If you disagree, don't install or open it.

As has already been stated, put yourself in their shoes, once you grow up and start having your own ideas, inventions, etc, you will want to receive credit/compensation for your idea's, work, etc. And it IS fair that you get that credit/compensation.

The way I see it, sharing files is like stealing a million candy bars, you eat one then give the rest to your friends. Most of us wouldn't do that (well, except for those who are still not grown up), but yet, you copy and share files, just because you can get away with it. Deep down we all know it's wrong. Just grow up and stop denying it...

Instead of complaining about it, do something about it. Call your Senator, write legislation, but then when you grow up and gain employment and find out you won't get paid for the work you do, don't come back here complaining.

Grow up and get a life! For those of you who are grown up, GROW UP! Get a life! Stop playing Playstation and Nintendo, stop staying up all night copying files, get a real job, get some education, and get into the real world!

You guys are killing me!

Alteci, I've already written BOTH State Senators, and a coupe of congressmen. Suprisingly they are in favor of the First Amendment and the filesharing is seen as a 'fair use' issue. Not all politicians are interested in brownnosing Hollywood and sucking up to it and it's 'celebrity' lifestyle.

Perhaps you should quit being so pedantic and learn a bit before you shoot your mouth off and look like nothing more than a blind corporate yes-man without a life yourself. Go read:

http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

As far as compensation, only 5% of RIAA artists actually do get the big support from the labels, those are the Celine Dions and Eminems of the industry.

Have you heard of Janis Ian? Go and read her article,

http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_deba cle.html

and come back and tell me that you _really_ believe that the artists get support. I wonder how many rooms Michael Greene's mansion has in it?

Who's talent built that?

Do you think that the bulk of the artists writing the songs live in any where as nice luxury? Hmmm?

What support did Mary Wells get? Do you even know who she was?

Somehow, I doubt it.

Deb.

Interesting response...

Show me where I said any artists make/receive any compensation, but that's not even the issue...maybe my point was above your head...or you're too busy yelling to hear me.

You're still just talking about opionions, your opionions versus the fact that you agree to a license as soon as you open it. How many people even read the terms of the license, or want to? I think it's an out of site out of mind thing, the less you're reminded of the license you *just* agreed to, the less guilty you feel violating it. You then go on boards like this and start yapping about "...freedom this freedom that..." or "blind yes-man this yes-man that". Your freedom is to accept or reject the license, period. But don't go breaking the license because you disagree with it, then call it freedom of person, 1st ammendment violation, or whatever you want to call it, especially after *you* just violated a law.

You know as well as I do that it's *currently* illegal. You agree to it every time you open a package and "break" that seal. The keyword being *currently*, if you don't like that law, change it. But don't go sending a couple of letters, or yelling on a few boards, then say "I've done my part and can continue to break the current law".

So let me guess your next justification...you didn't see a seal, because you got it off the net...and I guess you stop thinking at that point. Afraid to realize that the person who did agree to the terms just broke the terms by sticking it on the net. Or you justify it by stating it's good advertising, and "now I buy more *because* of file sharing". So in your mind it's all legal, right? But you've still broken a law!

Grow up! Change the law! But do go violating it because you disagree with it. Grow up!

Sounds like denial to me...

Rosa Parks violated the "law".
Mohandas Gandhi violated the "law".
Americans violated the "law" in 1776.
People who sold alcohol during the Prohibition violated the "law".
All the Jews that escaped from Nazi camps violated the "law".

hmm..

no, BREAKING THE LAW seems like an excellent idea to me in this case.

Keep breaking the Copyright Law as often as you can.
This is the way to victory. I assure you.

And Alteci...
I would tell you to "grow up", but you seem to think that you already "grew up"..
So since you are already grown up - now DIE!!!
Yes, Alteci!
Why don't you DIE!?

And yes, I do not give a fuck what is a "law" on paper.

I CHOOSE WHICH LAWS I OBEY. ALWAYS.

So anyone, who thinks Copyright _LAW_ should be a _MORAL_ guideline, go fuck yourself.

Go figures...yet another justification...I'm obviously not talking with adults...I'll walk myself out of this romper room...chow...

I can't resist...

Okay Spica, explain to me why it's a good idea "...in this case..." as stated by you:

"no, BREAKING THE LAW seems like an excellent idea to me in this case."

Why in the world would it be a good idea...

No let me guess, you *think* one of your "rights" is being violated...

screw rights.
RIAA is useless to mankind.

I hate the RIAA and I want it destroyed.
There are "legal" and "illegal" means of achieving this.
And I see more "illegal" means.

I do not care what a bunch of old, retarded, corrupt congressmen decided to make into "law".

I do what I want.
It is I who chooses NOT to kill people, or to rape, or to destroy property.

And it is I, who chooses to not give a fuck about copyright law.

And I obviously do not need "justification".

The logical DECISION and the WILL to do something is enough "justification" for me.

If others like the dickheads in RIAA do not agree with my decisions, they are welcome to try and stop me.

p.s.: I am an adult, and I have been one for a while.
I work on engineering projects for various military branches.
And I have decided to channel all my free resources and spare time into destroying the RIAA and MPAA.
Suck on that.

It's people like you who cause all of this. Your the type *TO* kill, rape, and destroy things. Look at your statement stating you want me to die...I feel sorry for you. You and people like you are the reason we have so many laws now.

I disagree with your statement: "I am an adult...". I don't think you are. You may have physically "grown up" but you still have a lot of growing up to do. And once you do, you will then be an adult.

But I still haven't heard any reasons to break any laws (not that there are any), just a lot of anger and hatred, I think you need counseling.

I hear a lot of selfishness..."I do what I want."...

So explain to me your "logical decision". I think it just comes down to will. You WANT to do it so you do, regarless of any laws.

What is your logic in your "logical decision"?

You have already heard enough reasons to break this stupid law.
Now give reasons NOT to.

And I stand by my statements.

besides, I think you are still the same 'Hrrglburf' moron, who comes in here trying to brainwash people.

I have not heard *any* reason/s. Only people upset that it's illegal. Enlighten me, or what maybe you don't have any good reason/s.

Brainwashing...interesting...remember, when you point at someone, three fingers point back at you. Are you feeling guilty?

Well, frankly I think you already know what I am talking about, and you only play dumb.

I am quite ok with it, since MY opinion seems to be getting a great deal more respect among gnutella users than YOURS.

The majority of educated humans are AGAINST you, RIAA dipshits.

otherwise, if you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to give me your home address; I will come visit you, and then, we can talk all night long.

For an "adult" you act very childish, and yet, still no answers...

Give me even *one* "educated" reason?

ok, just for formality, one of many good reasons not to obey copyright law:

People getting music for free will make CD sales go down, such that the RIAA loses money, thus losing the means to infuence politics and legislation.
As a bonus, many overpaid pot-smoking retards like Snoop Dogg will get a little closer to average financial reality.

say, john, chris, or whatever your name is, how much do they pay you to do this pointless shit?

It will not work, we just hate you more and more.

Even if you get John Ashcroft himself to read us a lecture on copyright, we will continue slowly eating the RIAA until it is dead.

Are you really serious? Who do you think you're kidding? What kind of reason is that? What I hear you say is "...I want free stuff, so I'm going to do what I can, including stealing, to get more free stuff...". What kind of false reality are you in? You know, reading your journal explains a lot, you just want free stuff, period. And you're doing all you can to justify it and make it okay to get it. What is that called...oh yeah, a leech or a mooch. Acutally, since you said you are an "adult", we don't call you a mooch anymore but a theif.

I fall back on my original plea, grow up!

I'm done with this conversation...once you get a life, an education (or finish one), and grown up, we can continue this discussion. Have a good life.

Well, Sir, being a professional engineer, I am far from being a "leech".

In fact, in my short life, I have already done more for mankind than you ever will.


So why don't you shut up and go get a real education yourself.

By real education, I mean any of the following:
-science
-engineering
-medicine

until then, you are just a useless parasite on society, just like the RIAA.

and just FYI:
I pay only for tangible goods and useful services.

Music and movies are neither goods nor are they services.

I will not pay for entertainment, EVER.

for example, watching you dumbass suffer is entertainment, AND it is free

Alteci:
> Give me even *one* "educated" reason?

Principle.

Music that should be recognized

http://www.emuparadise.org/soundtracks/ff9/

Final Fantasy IX soundtrack

Yanni should be recognized.


The game Final Fantasy IX should be in a museum for that moving story.

Britney's dance beat should be burned.


People that the RIAA support such as Ja Rule, and biggy should not get money.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, the RIAA's supposed "artist" biggy was shot and killed in a _gang_fight_ . These people shouldn't make money, and gnutella will stop them.

There are talented musicians out there, but they are not popular with the majority of the music buyers now-teenagers. Anyone who followed Eminem's bio, it took many talented brainwashers to make that load of shit up. And the people eat it up.

Spica, entertainment should be paid for. Yet the RIAA is not selling entertainment, they are selling crap.

I would gladly pay for a cd with yanni, marching season on it.

I would die before I bought fat joe's cd.

The R.I.A.A should be destroyed. They make music that appeals to idiots.

When I see in the newspaper how much these people make, I rip the thing up, they just scream or talk fast things that make no sense!

Really people, there is entertainment that should be paid for. Yet the gangsters and drug addicts that want to get rich so they can have more pot are ruining it for all the good artists.

- Lou

Alteci. What license?

Perhaps we are at cross conversations here? As far as opening anything and agreeing to a license. I don't.

I don't buy programs (perhaps this is what you are on about?) or music new.

Why do I need the newest copy of Paintshop or some music app - most of what I have and use is *Freeware*.

Have you ever heard of it?

You're on about software, here obviously.

I find it interesting that it hasn't been, and isn't generally the tech industry that has a problem with piracy.

Anyone connected seriously to the computing industry KNOWS that it is an accepted loss in the buiness. As far as complaining, the software manufacturers don't. It is the *Entertainment* industry shills that have been screaming loudest like a bunch of Nancy-boys and running to the government and whining about losing revenue.

What a bunch of pussies.

Consider that in data put out by the MPAA, the RIAA and the SIAA, it is the software manufacturers that generate about 165 billion dollars annually, see a nearly 12 billion loss off of that due to piracy and arent whining about it.

Hollywood grosses roughly 68 billion yearly, sees losses of only 3 billion, while the RIAA had a paltry 13.8 billion in revenue and lost 4.5 billion.

Hollywood and the RIAA *combined* generate only HALF of what the computer industry does, and loses 7.5 billion to silicon valley's 12.2 billion and yet it is they, who disproportionate to their revenue are going to dictate to the computer industry what a computer may or may not do?

You' re doing a VERY good job of trying to derail this dialogue. In fact, you are STILL at it, in drawing out young hothead Spica, but let's get real here. All your name calling to the effect of me or anyone else acting immature is irrelevant to the main issue.

Do you understand what the Doctrine of First Sale is?

How about 'Fair Use'?

You throw out invective and make insults towards myself and other posters here whilst offering NOTHING of serious debate, just some line reminiscent of 'do what mommy says..'

Well, there's this little thing called "Civil Disobedience" - that is NOT going to go away, and if you were more an American and less a corporate scab, you'd understand the problems with a copyright that now is dangerously extended 45 YEARS longer than a human lifespan.

So much for securing a 'limited time' for the copyright holder.

I am not going to hold your hand on this issue any longer, so you'll have to get your head out of the sand and open your eyes and think about it.

Deb.

hehe, deb, neo, have u noticed how these (c)-preachers are always quiet on Saturdays and Sundays?
-does anyone else still doubt that they are really PR 'experts' sent by the RIAA?

Well, seems their target audience was teenagers.
Damn, prolly sux for them that there are so many adults here.
hehehe

I wonder what that Alteci/hrrglburf fuck will do next.
Prolly keep calling me a thief and a leech, lol
What a dumbass.

Thanks Spica. I only have one point on your arguments, and that is that you do get hotheaded and a bit brash. This whole thing has to be framed so that it doesn't sound like it's a bunch of kids spouting off - this back and forth between you and Alteci is a good example.

He is a distracting element, and he's deliberately trying to derail the topics.

Don't let him.

Get yourself a handy list of URL's to articles that are good and short and USE them to make your point and keep hammering away at it. It's the only way to keep the dialogues on track.

Look at the newest article posted by leflaw - it's great, but it's long. If the kids are the main people out here at times, at the very least, lets see if we can figure out a way to effectively distill the arguments down to the main core bits so the kiddies will get it.

Make the argument easy to digest and you'll have it won. Part of me selling my art had been learning how to 'make the sale' and often it involves telling folks _only_ enough to get them going. The Hollywood types have it down to a fine art - have you ever seen a movie preview?

It's time to use that very same mentality in spreading a different message. That's one of the main reasons why I break up my posts into little paragraphs. It keeps it easy to read.

It works.

see?

Deb.

Deb, if only you knew some of my posting-history, you would notice that I already tried reasoning by exclusively calm/logical means.

It doesn't work.

"Grow up! Change the law! But do go violating it because you disagree with it. Grow up!
Sounds like denial to me..." ~Alteci

His arguments exist beyond any reasoning.

See, their strategy is to shout us down.
(THIEF!!!!
LEEECH!!!
AAAAAAAAAAARGHH!!!!
--------THOU SHALT NOT..!!!!!
GAAAAAAAAA!!!!)

Furthermore, they think most of us simply don't care enough to keep arguing.
Kinda like: "...so we will be allowed to break into your house and search your harddrives, so what, it doesn't bother you, does it?"

All I am trying to show is that I DO care, very much.
And my obsessive/brash posts in no way reflect my emotional state. My pulse never goes above normal, unlike the poor PR dipshits' hehe
Debating passionately is something I had to learn for situations like these.

Usually, I am very boring and quiet, so enjoy this while it lasts.

...and if he ever again claims that I am a kid, I will ask him things like:
"...what is the convolution sum of X(n)=u(n)a^n and H(n)=u(n)b^n ?"

Let's see who is more "grown up" then.

Well all that does, as I see it, is give the troll what it wants -- an irrational reaction -- to solidify in its mind, at least, what characterizes those who represent what you say you do.

Spica: they will be able to easily get to teenagers. They are stupid. Since they are too stupid to understand all of the stuff behind it, why we are doing it, and why not to listen to them, just tell the teens this: _free_music_. I guarantee that will spark something in their idiotic minds.

And also, what the @*$% was that "...what is the convolution sum of X(n)=u(n)a^n and H(n)=u(n)b^n ?"
about?

Either way, Spica, why concern yourself with such morons? Just ignore the little R.I.A.A. spammers, they are a waste of time and effort.

P.S.
I see the irony in insulting teenagers although I am one, but I don't consider myself one of them; I am a leader, not a follower; and I am not another idiotic teenager.

hmm
so ok, let's see.

So the RIAA will think we are irrational.
So they will think we are all stupid teenagers.
So they realize we cannot be reasoned with.
So they will stop trying to shove their ideology on us.
...and?

THAT WOULD BE EXCELLENT.

What else CAN they do?
No, making them unwilling to talk to us is a very desired outcome.
Get them frustrated, get them to SHUT UP, is what we should be doing.

Guess who...

This is an interesting conversation...I do apologize as it does sound like there are a *few* adults in here, but still, it's sounds like you're just upset and that you want "free" files. The defensiveness of most in here sounds like most are not yet adults.

Deb, When I speak of licenses I speak of both software/programs and music/videos, since both are and can be shared using File Sharing programs, since this is what the original article is about.

Regardless of who you think I am or work for, or the assumptions you make, I still have not heard any valid arguments to Share These Types of files. Sure if it's Open Source, or sure if it's freeware or shareware, but that's not what we're talking about.

I would love to be able to go on-line and get whatever title or program I ever wanted without paying a cent. But, if the artist or author has copyrighted it, then it's illegal to share it, period. Regardless of what you think of that artist, group, or author. But for some reason that's keeps being pulled into the conversation. I know we all know this, but many *deny* it. So explain to me why file sharing, illegal files, is okay...

"The RIAA can not be persuaded or reasoned with.
If it is not destroyed, it will destroy us."

~War

well, hello there.
Monday, another workday, eh, Alteci?

It would? How about just giving our point, listening to 1 post by them, say why they suck in 1 post, than just ignore all further posts by them. I'm no irrational stupid teenager Spica, I thought you saw that. But to the stupid irrational teenagers, just tell them free music! Really, except for me, there's azhazhellfire, the only other teenager on the site. No teenager in my school even knows who the RIAA is anyway, so if they do not know of them, they cannot be brainwashed.

They are losing. With p2p2p, it will be hard to find 1 user. There are so many, it's not even funny! Look at WinMX, that usually gets the most results, how many people are there too? Many.

Do not worry.
Downloading files off P2P is not stealing.
It is gettign things for free.
It is a very good thing to do.
Free Market means, if you can get it for free, you do not pay for it.

So keep downloading software, music and movies for free.

You will be the heroes of generations to come.



(I think I should start posting on DMusic as well... )

I would pay for it. It is just that ja rule and nelly and these jackasses do not make anything useful, tell me that is creative and I'll scream.

Ok, I'll say it again.

Yanni deserves money.

Nobeu Uematsu deserves money for the Final Fantasy IX music.

What do these people get money for? Eminem Ken Kaniff, they guy is getting his dick sucked in the song. Britney Spears I'm a slave 4u has her sound like she's screwing someone in the background. Fat Joe What's luv has him saying how he wants to fuck many women at once instead of one.

This is not art, so they should not be called artists. The notorious b.i.g. was killed in a gang shooting. They are all bums, and an insult to the word art, and they should not get paid for what they do.

- Lou

hey neo:
I say Yanni willl get enough from live concerts.
And FF9 is a game, they make MORE than enough from game sales, no need to pay them for soundtrack.

Sure, if they can get CD prices under $1.00, maybe we can do business...
Otherwise, if you can not compete, GO OUT OF BUSINESS!

Spica..Hmm. Ill have to look into your posting history!

One oft he things I've noticed is that very few of the people I've tangled with on this forum come back for a second try. One of the main things is to out argue them each and every chance you get. They'll shut up if you keep highlighting the points they wish to hide.

Someone like hrrglburf makes a point about sharing music meaning artists don't get paid? Make a point of bringing up artists like Mary Wells, or countless others who have been lied and swindled (that's almost any black jazz or blues artist since day 1). Show the industry is not any better, and is in fact *worse* as it has routinely put the wants of a few select stars above all it's artists.

Someone says it's just the way corporate business is done? Bring up the original Founding Fathers' objections to laws made by corporate fiat. Just what WAS the Boston Tea Party about, after all?

Someone brings up issues of the 'law' and how we should always obey it? Remind them of the idea of "Civil Disobedience," resistance to the 'mommy state,' and bad laws.

Just whatever we do, let's keep an eye on the issues and not get distracted by trolls.

Deb.

About the FFIX soundtrack making money, $66 for the cd, so maybe I will reconsider paying for it. It's good, but come on, $66?!

Spica, what do you do anyway, as you say how you do things to contribute, but never anything specific.

BTW, a friend of mine (a guy I went to HS with) works for the RIAA now.

Because he hates them more than shit.
He simply spies on their new copy-protection and other technological developments.
Then, he reports that info to his friends at Kazaa.

How you like that? -----

yo neo, I develop highspeed networks stuff for the military.
We currently have research grants from Army, Navy, and (i hope) soon from NASA.

So I would say, I directly contribute to that thing we call "civilization".

Unlike some other people I saw here. |

The new kazaa is so much better. It lets me share ogg vorbis, and the spyware that is needed is blocked by my zonealarm.

Ogg Vorbis rules, when will people get that if they use ogg cbr 200k it is good, not that vbr quality bar crap.

Anyway, yay!

alteci is annoying as hell!! When will these annoying mo-fos get that noone cares!!!

All those people searching in the shoutbox make me sad. Why do you work for the military, as you have stated that you think bush ordered osama's attacks?? Why do you work for the army of your enemy?

- Lou

the military has nothing to do with Bush.
it is still called "Clinton's Army"

besides, they dont bother me, they give me money for my services.
I have no problem if they then go and kill each other somewhere in the mideast.

secure employment, great resume builder.
nothin wrong with that.

Evil you are. But in a good way. My goal is to become an IT manager, just for a short time, and secretly use one of the T1 lines or the sdsl for gnutella, with those upload speeds.

You seem to be incredibly smart with computers, I am, err was too, I had learned to make an interactive program with gwbasic for dos at 7 years old on some 286 garbage. Use this, and if whoever made the FFIX soundtrack expects me to pay $66 is outta their mind!!!!!

Cannot wait to see the RIAA die. Movies are somewhat good, but today's music is just retarted. Really retarted. I mean, eminem might be good for a laugh or 2 for FREE, as in that the world turns song where he insults the fat lady, but it is not entertainment, they have to understand that.

http://ryans.dmusic.net/pictures.php?detail=1&picid=777 just for laughs, ms word joke.

They make all shit. Why don't these riaa ***** understand that that is an absolute disgrace to the word artist?

-Lou

You guys crack me up...you talk about brain washing, yet if I were to collect Deb's comments I would have a nice Brainwashing handbook. And yet still no valid reasons, ummm, maybe because there are none!

I'm mistaken, I thought I was talking with a few adults, but I was wrong. What kind of adults have the "Ignore them and they'll go away..." attitude?

You guys talk about staying on track with the topic, yet you don't ever get to the point, or answer questions regarding the topic with direct answers, nor do you have *adult* conversations.

I lean back on one of my previous comments, this is just a romper room with kids wanting free stuff, period.

Granted, there are many of you, it's still illegal...and we all know it...that's why you dance around the questions and ignore those who oppose you. Who do you really think your kidding?

Adults tell their children that, it's a parenting technique you ****.

I have paid for some FFIX cds.

I have paid for a yanni cd.

I have paid for a christmas music cd.

I wrote this some time ago, but it applies here too.

Also, the RIAA says that the "creative" works of artists are being pirated. How much creativity did it take for eminem to make the song "ken kaniff" on the album "The Marshall Mathers LP"??? As I recall, the man ken kaniff is gay and is getting his dick sucked in the song by 2 other guys, and you hear slurpy sounds, than the guys say Eminem instead of Ken and the guy gets pissed off.

In Fat Joe's "What's Luv" song, he says about how he wants to screw more than 1 girl at once, and the girl is saying "it's about us, it's about just me".

In the song "One Step Closer" by Linkin Park, for about 30 seconds, in a loop you hear "SHUTUP!! SHUTUP WHEN IM TALKIN TO YOU" over and over again.

In Britney Spears' "I'm a slave 4u" Britney Spears sounds like she’s getting screwed in the background, like a dog in heat for the entire song. Also, using file sharing, it's out in the open what "other things" that ho does for money. On Oprah "I'm a virgin" my ass!

In the song "Square Dance" by Eminem you hear "so wont you please jump off my dick, lay off, and stay off?”

In the song "Drips" by Eminem, you hear "all... of these diseases, streaming from Obie's penis" and "all these bitches on my dick"

Tell me how that is creative??? Maybe people will buy music when they make songs that sound good, like Jimmie Eats World, The Middle, where he relies on his words and his music, not his being perverted, screaming for no good reason, sounding like you’re a dog in heat, and so on. Songs like Linkin Park Points of Authority were good.

Maybe then people will buy music, but until good music comes out, screw buyin it. The reason people download it is because no one knows whether they will get good stuff or the crap listed above.

- Lou

That's what I thought.

What do you mean that's what you thought??

As long as you talk reasonably, I am open for discussion.

hey Alteci, I know it's illegal; I just don't give a fuck.

btw, what are your thoughts on Industrial Espionage?

Doesn't it just... how you say...ah yes: SUCK?

ohahaha, "Today, virtually all RIAA member companies filed for Chapter 11 ..."
oh yes baby, I can already taste it

Hey, hello Alteci, I am sharing over 100 movies and 7Gb of music on a 10Mbps connection

I have things like Red Dragon, XXX, Minority Report, and lots more! (L! O! T! R! 2! ahhaha)

hey, go catch me, moron, i am doing something illegal

"hey Alteci, I know it's illegal; I just don't give a fuck." That's what I've been looking for, honesty. If you would have said this in the beginning, that would have been the last you saw of me.

I have well over 5 gb of stuff, and for some reason my dsl has been on steriods from 608/140 to 4000/200-400. I have in gnucleus 218 completed uploads. Suck on that alteci! All superb ogg files and movies.

it is Illegal. but it is not Immoral, Alteci.

P2P is a great service to mankind.

Soon you'll be unemployed, Alteci.

Better go get a real education real soon!

And then, maybe a real job ???

Wasn't escaping slavery illegal? I could list a lot more, but the point is the law is often wrong.

to claim that the Earth is round used to be illegal.

wow, the dumbass finally left.
I guess his workday ends around 8pm, eh?

10:43 here Spica.

These people are really annoying!!

When will they stop!!

Once the RIAA and MPAA are destroyed, what than?

lol, you guys crack me up. It's you that "real" American's need to be afraid of. Not some other nation, warheads, or any government.

But before I lower myself to your mud slinging, I'm outa here, chow.

You can't debate so you run? *sigh* I thought paid brainwashers could do better than that.

lol, keep trying guys...

hey man.
Here in America, we have something called "Free Market".

This means, if I can make something myself (like copies of music files), I am not paying for it;
and if you can't compete, you go out of business.

Now tell me, when did shit like YOU come to MY country???

Cuz we sure don't want your kind here.

I'm sorry, but while what we have what's called a "free market," it's still free only in degrees. We have copyright law, which severely limits the "freeness" (as in source) of the market(s).

You are deluded into believing we are living in a /pure/ free market. The sooner you admit that you want to change what you perceive as wrong, and start behaving that way, the sooner things might change.

well yes, that's true.
I guess it should say:
"we are supposed to have something called Free Market".

Yeah, market isn't "free", but many politicians claim that it is.

I suppose we can only come closer to a True Free Market, but never reach it.

Straight up? Copyright Abuse.

120 years of copyright length is not a 'limited time' as it was meant to be by the Founding Fathers.

Constitutionally, the rights of *human* beings to have access to materials and information, literature, arts, sciences.. You name it, has been LOST to the 'limited time' of the life of *Corporate* beings.

(Consider Coca -Cola was incorporated in the 19th Century! As a legal *being* it is 114 years old - how many people live that long?)

Corporations can by their nature 'live' longer than any individual human alive, and can in effect become sole owners of culture, art and _history_.

This is dangerous. It stagnates the culture, restricts innovation and stifles creativity. There is no logical reason that copyright is so long, other than greed and corruption.

Corruption on the part of politicians in that in making these changes they are only thinking of the taxable revenue gained, and NOT the idea of the 'common public wealth' lost. It decays the culture, by commodifying as many aspects of it as possible.

Yet another excuse to generate taxable revenue.

The greed aspect comes in in that this country's citizens no longer are creating a 'cutlure' but servicing a business.

This is where the rubber hits the road. When do the *corporate* legal beings start acting like citizens and _giving_ (*not selling*) back to the public they have been taking from?

They won't, they're too craven. And beholden to stockholders.

George Bush said recently that America's youth needs to learn history better. I wholeheartedly concur.

Let's start at the Start of America - the Boston Tea Party. A foriegn run corporation, The British East India Tea Company was making laws and raising taxes on behalf of the LEGAL government (the Crown) of the time.

Sound familiar?

Isn't one of the Hollywood and the RIAA's biggest concerns Sony? How about Bertlesmann? Vivendi? I wonder where they come from?

It is in THAT spirit, I say it is every American's DUTY to share files. Yes, it's against the law. So what? It's the foriegn concerns, their corporations that have pushed for these copyright extensions so far they become absurd and abusive.

I will fight that and gladly break any law made by a foriegn concern.

Now you have your answer. I hope it is what you are looking for. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go give back some art - for free - to the people who've been stealing pictures of naked men from gayporn paysites.

Deb.

If that's not greed, I don't know what is. When have you as a citizen ever "given" back to the public?

"...the rights of *human* beings to have access to materials and information, literature, arts, sciences.. You name it, has been LOST to the 'limited time' of the life of *Corporate* beings..."

Sure if you want to twist it that way. You should have said "your *desire* to pay for these types of materials has been lost."

I feel sorry for you if this is how you feel..."It stagnates the culture, restricts innovation and stifles creativity"

So what you're saying is that you're not creative or innovative without relying on someone else?! What kind of creativity is that? I'm not saying sharing someone else ideas is a bad thing, but to say it stifles creativity...it sounds like it's coming from somone who is not very creative.

yep our DESIRE to pay for these materials has been lost.
So the lables will either lower their prices dramatically, or they will go out of business.

I would prefer the second option.

The entertainment industry is drawing way too many resources from our society, and it needs to be obliterated.

Music and art used to be donation-driven, and that's the way it should be again.

The concept of "professional artist" should not exist at all.

There is no need for "professional artists".
Art and music should be created on a 'hobby-basis', by people, who have real jobs.

...hey Alteci, since you are grown up and all,
can you tell me: what is the integral of dx/x ?

I guess not.

So here's the deal:

Whenever I expect to gain DIRECT profit from someone else's art,
I *might* (if I so please) pay the original creator (not his company) a certain amount of money, simply to have public approval from his/her side.

For non-commercial purposes, movies and movies will be distributed and downloaded for free.
There is nothing that the industry can do to stop it.
Fuck what the law says.

This is the closest I will ever come to a compromise.
The RIAA and MPAA will take it, or be destroyed.

...err, i mean "movies and music"

Oh, please Alteci.

Mister, I have given away more of my time to individuals, donated materials and volunteered at schools, without financial reimbursement than you know.

That argument you are using is a last ditch attempt to make a case.

NOW who's cynical and self centered sounding here?

I routinely go into the high school I graduated from and work with the kids. FOR FREE - I've been doing that the last 20 years.

On the cultural note, art, science and literature of a culture must COME from it. Truthfully, American 'culture' is one that is centered on television, MTV and McDonalds.

All art and creativity comes from the surrounding environment. Nothing will grow in a vacuum.

Cave painters at Altimira in France were painting bison on rock walls 30 thousand years ago. Peter Breugel the Elder was painting the farmers and workers of medieval europe. Andy Warhol made a soup can into a cultural icon, so you can see that your cheap jab at my 'lack of inspiration' is a bit ill placed. Art has to reflect the _public_ culture that it comes from.

What does that mean for said culture, if everything in it becomes effectively locked away into the hands of private concerns?

What will be left that is actually _of_ the greater culture at large?

Would you have a nation of citizens who's cultural expressions celebrate freedom, liberty, values of sharing and charity or a culture who's expressions represent continued profits for corporations and stockholders?

Please, do tell. Enlighten me here and now as to WHY I should want shallow, materialistic values to be the dominant paradigm?

Deb.

I have given back to the public. I have used their ja rule and fat joe cds as frisbees and showed them real music such as yanni, FFIX, some of the stuff on DMusic.com that is indepandant and sounds much better, etc.

Where is the money for schools, I am in hs, and using a textbook for history that was probably written as history happened. It's in the RIAA's pocket. The bathroom sink in my junior high and high school have water sorta brown come out. No ac in any room.

Ever seen the roads where I live and in ******** lately? All potholes.

ALL THE MONEY IS IN THE POCKET OF ASSHOLES THAT SCREAM IN A DEEP VOICE AND GET PAID. THEY DO NOT MAKE MUSIC. THEY SIMPLY SCREAM JIBBERISH TO A BACKGROUND BEAT, AND MAKE MILLIONS.

And Spica, I have more brains than have the people on this site and I have no clue wtf the integral of dx/x is.

Also, the cd for the FFIX music is 66$. The game itself was 40$ now 20$. Why is the game which has the music and tons more so much less than the cd of the music alone? Because the music industry takes a chunk out for itself. And the fact that that music can be played only while playing the game, but come on, $66 for a cd? That's a joke.

Alteci, please, you are using the same brainwashing tactics as before, if you will come back, at least come back with something that may convince me.

-Lou

neo, thats something "grown-ups" should know after graduatign from hs.
that fuck is prolly desperately trying to look up "Integral" in his dictionary.

Damn, I hate it when uneducated people think their opinions are valid on any given subject.

hey Alteci, since you don't have a real education or a real job:

how about you come over here and work for me?
you can carry my stuff and make trips to the grocery store for me.

I'll pay you $8.00 an hour.

Eh, when I learn it I learn it, I'm smart enough with what I need to do.

I'm educated enough on gnutella and the RIAA to give an opinion Spica, alteci, and hrrlgbruff are not. I think for 13 I have done quite well, except for that last post, ouch.

Frankly, they keep saying the same thing over and over again, just as the elderly do, stubborn and annoying. But as with the elderly, they go into homes or die, and we take control. Just as the RIAA will die, and than we take control.

We don't need them anymore, look at dmusic.com alteci, it's all indepandant, all done _WITHOUT_YOU. I know it hurts, but if it makes you feel better, there is a wendy's in my neighborhood hiring, may be useful once gnutella, opennap (aka winmx) and fasttrack (while it is still here) are done ripping into you until you are poor.

I expect to see you serving me my chicken nuggets within a few months alteci, heh heh.

-Lou

neo, dun worry, at least you try not to impose your opinion on things you have no experience with.
so ur posts are all valid.

Unlike Hrrglburf/Alteci/JimsMyName 's.

Good thing they are proving my claim:
-People working for the RIAA are more likely to be stupid than those seeking to destroy the RIAA.-

Most people don't even know of the music industry and all of this anyway, so they wouldn't care.

To the smart, read this and see the real reason to shut the RIAA down, and why it is needed for our economy.

To the stupid, if you can read, free music.

Simple as that. Tell the smart this stuff, and the idiots "hey wanna know an easy way to get free music!" so we will have everyone on our side. The only RIAA supporters are the RIAA themselves and those who they bribe.

- Lou

NeoFlash wrote: I am in hs, and using a textbook for history that was probably written as history happened.

Lou, that's probably the best textbook you'll ever get, if it IS really old. Hey, if you're truly serious about history, go to the library and see if they have a copy of the book "Lies My Teacher Taught Me - Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" by James Loewen.

It tears apart the fabricated history and the cheesy way that most of it is given a hippy-happy whitewash. If you do get a copy, show it to your teacher and see what the reaction is.

Read it! You'll never look at your history class the same way again.

Deb.

It was just a joke, what I had meant is that they are falling apart. There aren't enough and those who get them get ones that look like they went half-way through a shredder.

My point was that the RIAA is taking money out of the economy that could be used for schools, making better buses, nuking osama and other equally annoying assholes like him, etc.

I will look for that book though. I know the history is tampered with. That's why I don't care to learn it.

- Lou

P.S.

Is it just me or is it only me and deb that put our names at the end?

lol, you guys crack me up, sure whatever you say.

The funniest thing is that you're serious...

"Is it just me or is it only me and deb that put our names at the end?" Great observation NeoFlash.

lol, have a good one.

Oh probably it's only you and I.

Deb.

So Alteci, how about it?
Wanna carry my stuff for $8.00 an hour?

I think just let them do whatever they want you know that theirgoing to do it anyways so why try and stop them you know damn well that kids aren't going to listen to what their teachers and their parents say so why try and stop them just leave the kids alone...