Hamas steals Mickey Mouse image to teach hate and Islamic suprema
Posted by pepe512000 in on May 9, 2007 at 10:42 AM
The Hamas Television is using a clone of Disney’s Mickey Mouse to teach children to hate Israel and America, and aspire to Islam’s inevitable and impending world domination.
The squeaky-voiced Mickey Mouse lookalike, named Farfur, is the star of a weekly children’s program called Tomorrow’s Pioneers on the official Hamas TV station (Al-Aqsa TV). Farfur and his co-host, a young girl named Saraa’, teach children about such things as the importance of the daily prayers and drinking milk, while taking every opportunity to indoctrinate young viewers with teachings of Islamic supremacy, hatred of Israel and the US and support of "resistance" – the Palestinian euphemism for terror.
Farfur tells children that they must pray in the mosque five times a day until there is “world leadership under Islamic leadership.” The earnest and soft-spoken Saraa’ explains that the nucleus of this world Islamic leadership will be from “all of Palestine,” i.e., including Israel. Farfur refers to Israel as “the oppressive invading Zionist occupation,” which the children must "resist."
In a religious warning that is striking, considering the young age of the target audience, Saraa’ announces that after death, the children will have to answer to Allah for what they did or did not do for the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, and for Palestinian prisoners:
“I remind you that Al-Aqsa and the prisoners are a responsibility on our shoulders, and Allah will ask us on Resurrection Day what we gave for their sake.”
The writing in this show is quite sophisticated. Farfur's performance is unquestionably funny and entertaining, as is the character’s comic timing. For example, as he rhymes off a list of world figures, he chirps: “We will win, Bush! We will win, Condoleezza! We will win, Sharon!” Then, without missing a beat, he quips, “Ah, Sharon is dead” (sic), reinforcing his message that the plan for world domination is progressing.
Using a character based on an appealing, world famous and beloved icon like Mickey Mouse to teach Islamic supremacy and resistance as Islamic duty is a powerful and effective way to indoctrinate children.
The effectiveness of this program is heightened by including child viewers, who phone in to the show and recite poems with images of hate and violence; for example, “We will destroy the chair of the despots, so they will taste the flame of death;” and, "Rafah sings ‘Oh, oh.’ Its answer is an AK-47. We who do not know fear, we are the predators of the forest."
It is unclear what screening process, if any, is used in the selection of the poems to be recited. Either the themes are selected by the screeners, which reinforces the hate orientation of the program, or they are the initiative of the children and parents, which demonstrates the great success of the show's hate messages.
"Using a character based on an appealing, world famous and beloved icon like Mickey Mouse to teach Islamic supremacy and resistance as Islamic duty is a powerful and effective way to indoctrinate children."
--------
Isn't Mickey Mouse still under copyright protection until forever itself comes to an end?
OMG! Shouldn't Hollywood and the Music/Movie Industry DO SOMETHING ABOUT ALL THIS???
---------
Or, is more lucrative/easy to pick on grandmothers, 12 year olds, and college students here in the good ol' US of A?
----------
Fuck the stupid copyrighted mouse! He was created way back when our grandparents were children.
Mickey has become such a symbol of corporate repression that I can't even stand to watch Fantasia anymore. (At least when HE is on the screen!)
Folks, the problem you see here is the abuse of religion to indocrinate innocent kids into fighting against other religions.
Unfortunately, within in EVERY religion you can find this kind of hate being taught... (nay, "brainwashed" is a better word) into the minds of the young who are born into it.
============
Unfortunately (VERY MUCH SO)
This kind of thing is never going to end.
Mankind is always going to have "religion" (let's hope and pray that MOST of mankind will use it in POSITIVE ways!)
...but, let's cry together about this blatent example of how children are being brainwashed and mind-fu*ked (once again) into acts of evil.
Interesting that you brought up two of the very things that came to my mind when seeing this....first of all..this...
OMG! Shouldn't Hollywood and the Music/Movie Industry DO SOMETHING ABOUT ALL THIS???
---------
Or, is more lucrative/easy to pick on grandmothers, 12 year olds, and college students here in the good ol' US of A?
____________________________________
What you said above was my first thought.....
And second? My pet peeve again of course, you mentioned the brainwashing of the children....and how they become affected...is not our society just as guilty of this?
Old Walt must be in a tail spin watching this...
Glen Beck is going to do a study on this video and air a program about it...should be very interesting...he's on CNN Headline News.
In the greater context of things:
Increasingly, Islam is expanding its sphere of hostile approach to Israel and the West. Unless the more moderate followers of this religion/lifestyle show stronger contrast to the violent side of Islam, it will increasingly be more and more difficult for them to overcome world-wide perception of people associating Islam with radical if not violent tendencies. Personally, I've been in that camp of perception for years. It will just still take a little longer for others to come to grips with the unavoidable fact that Islam, even in its sacred writings, IS NOT "a peaceful religion" by nature of its very teachings!
(If anyone cares to debate this issue, let's start with a few basic quotes from some of their sacred texts, and then let's mention Muhammed's acts from history.)
Centuries ago, Moslem hordes marched into Europe with conquering on their minds. Charles Martel CHANGED their minds, thank God.
"Unfortunately, within in EVERY religion you can find this kind of hate being taught... (nay, "brainwashed" is a better word) into the minds of the young who are born into it."
True. But Islam's influence is growing increasingly hostile, and that appears to be determined enough to even risk starting WWIII if it meant being able to attain their obsessed goal of destroying Israel.
In regard to the Jews and the West, they are fiercely uncompromising.
The present danger is the bad mix of THEIR inclinations together with our "war president" (Bush's own words once describing himself) that we've got as commander-in-mischief.
Well, he called himself a WAR president; I'll just rephrase it to a WARMONGERING president (perhaps more apt). . . considering his pre-emptive approach.
If present public opinion weren't so strong against him, there's a good chance he would have ALREADY attacked Iran.
Just want to side step the Islam issue for a second....in relation to Shmoos hostility toward the mouse..please, don't anyone ever take him to Disneyland.... Now back to serious...
Potential solutions?
To begin with, where is it written in our Constitution or in any amendment, that the U.S. must adamantly support that little nation over there in the Middle East known as "Israel", no matter what???
Radical Islam is obsessed to the death with destroying Israel. America may be similarly obsessed to the death with helping Israel.
If the U.S. hadn't been so fanatic about helping and aiding Isael all these decades, we might not even have to be involved in endless wars against terror right now. That's because 9/11 likely wouldn't have happened in the first place.
How come hardly anyone has the guts to write this obvious truth?
I suspect many of us may think it, but no one wants to express it -- you know, for fear of being labelled anti-semitic. Well, I'm not against Jews; but I am against going OVERBOARD in supporting any nation, that's all. And going overboard is just what our country has been doing!
One more thing, while I'm at it.
As long as any administration keeps listening to people that advise them for our nation to go out of its way to help Israel, what I've been talking about will not get better (that's one of the main reasons we got into the rut we're stuck in now). I'll kindly refrain from naming names; one them has initials of H.K, and the other was P.W.
You can probably guess them.
Israel has nuclear weapons even. Let it defend itself, for God's sake!
We don't have to have our country brought down to its knees because of them, do we?
They don't need Barney. They've got George, and Henry, and Paul, and . . . you know the rest.
Re: Leflaw's allusion to Neville Chambelain --
Neville believed in peace at any cost.
The U.S. administrations believe in war at any cost.
Slight difference, there.
They also (in a foolhardy way) believe in supporting Israel at any cost, too, and what has it gotten us?
George deciding to go into the Iraq with both guns blazing really wasn't much different than charging directly into a hornet's nest.
And talk about predictable: George thinks we can stay the course, and we should trust him that things will get a lot better in the Middle East by doing just about what has been done for years.
Doing better about trying to neutralize of one of Israel's enemies (which is what Iraq was).
Also similar: Iran was/is a major enemy of Israel, too, and Wolfowitz wanted us to go after them as well. Super idea, there.
What I wrote still stands: All the decades we've been nurturing that little nation and risking our national welfare, and what has it gotten us? 9/ll happened mainly because we have been way too much of a friend to an avowed enemy of radical Islam!
Because of 9/11, a few other dominoes are subject to fall as well. That's a domino theory to come to fruition.
Mr. Chamberlain, eh?
It just could be that cicumstances in the Middle East is a slightly different situation than conditions in Europe in 1939, you know.
Besides, there is no way to win the war against terror.
No way we can prevail in guerilla warfare now than we did in VietNam. It's even worse, because of suicidal missions with explosives that they use against us.
No, it's too late to put Pandora's monsters back in the box. And it's too late to undo all the unwise support we gave that little country since about, um, 1948.
"It just could be that cicumstances in the Middle East is ..."
would have been better phrased as:
"It just be that circumstances in the Middle East are ..."
"Israel has nuclear weapons even. Let it defend itself, for God's sake!"
"9/ll happened mainly because we have been way too much of a friend to an avowed enemy of radical Islam! "
can you really be this stupid?
let's try this again
...too much of a friend to an avowed enemy of radical Islam
...a friend to an avowed enemy of radical Islam
...an avowed enemy of radical Islam
...radical Islam
keep saying that until the light bulb comes on. radicals do not need logic or correct thinking. they have a mind set that is focused on a singular objective. no matter who or what or when or where. that objective is the only thing that matters to them. who they kill, how they do it, how many innocents they take with them makes no difference.
""Listen and understand. That Terminator is out there. It can't be barginned with, it cant be reasoned with. It doesn't feel, anger, fear, or remorse, and it absolutely will not stop ever until you are dead.""
how long do you keep running from them and pacifying them?
neville tried really hard and for his efforts he got this...
"I will make no further territorial demands...." extra credit for anyone who can remember who said that in 1939
"Radicals do not need logic or correct thinking. They have a mind set that is focused on a singular objective."
Consider:
1) their primary focus has been to eliminate Israel.
2) but the U.S. has been standing in their way because we've been helping Israel too much.
3) it's not hard to understand they're pissed at us too and WE became vulnerable as a jihad target as well as Israel.
Hence, 9/11 and other crap.
I'm "stupid" for making this connecting-the-dots assertion?
Wow.
I'll try to hold back from retaliating.
BTW, was that Terminator quote from a motion picture?
If so, (and I wouldn't know because I don't waste time with movies), I'd say nice example of reality there.
Speaking of reality, would you hold out hope of winning the war on terrorism? If so, I'd probably be inclined to reflect your "s" word you used against me back to you.
"Speaking of reality, would you hold out hope of winning the war on terrorism? If so, I'd probably be inclined to reflect your "s" word you used against me back to you."
you can call me anything you want. since I'm not a radical I'm not likely to strap on an explosives belt and come over for dinner.
you're problem is that like most liberals you do not understand what the term radical means. (I'm not calling you a liberal, I'm telling you that most liberals do not understand and you are behaving like them)
so let's have a look at your connect the dots assertion.
1) their primary focus has been to eliminate Israel.
does this sound reasonable to you? if it does then there is really no point in debate here.
2) but the U.S. has been standing in their way because we've been helping Israel too much.
well, sorta. yeah we give them money and political support but I'd really like someone to show me where we have committed combat troops that have fought in Israel. conversely, troops (fighters, soldiers, jihadists and cat stevens) from just about every country in the world have actually lined up and fought the Israelis on their own soil and contributed money to continue the fighting. does this sound reasonable to you?
3) it's not hard to understand they're pissed at us too and WE became vulnerable as a jihad target as well as Israel.
Hence, 9/11 and other crap.
I got some bad news for you. it doesn't take a conversation about Israel for a radical to start calling the US the "great satan" we would be the great satan even if there were no Israel.
Bin Laden didn't give a shit about the palestinians and still doesn't. he was pissed because US troops stationed on Saudi Arabian soil based attacks against Iraq which is a fellow Islamic state.
Speaking of reality, would you hold out hope of winning the war on terrorism?
absolutely. saddam hussien kept the radicals in line rather well. they didn't screw with him because they knew he was serious. it isn't a question of whether the war on terrorism can be won. the real question is whether we are willing to do what it takes to win it.
"Israel has nuclear weapons even. Let it defend itself, for God's sake!"
I will repeat myself as many times as necessary on this and If I hurt your feelings thats too damn bad. If you truly believe this is a good Idea you are stupid. not just stupid but a fool who is too stupid to know they are stupid.
read "The Dragons of Eden" by Dr Carl Sagan. learn what nuclear winter is. then ask yourself if this seems reasonable. if it does then there is really no point in debate here.
and just as a side note that I forgot to add in...
up until 1979 Israel got most of their oil from Iran.
what is that I'm saying? an Islamic state that was selling oil to Israel?
imagine that.
after November 4, 1979 that stopped (along with a few other things) I wonder what radical events or people caused this change in an otherwise amicable partnership. I wonder if it has anything to do with the current leadership of Iran and their slightly controversial denial of the holocaust.
I'm being reserved in ignoring insults ("fool"; "stupid").
The only value is debating issues, and I can handle that as well as verbal attacks.
Because Israel has nuclear weapons (and most Islamic nations do NOT), this IS significant . . . and an ultimate form of deterrent. That's why I think it's not a bad idea to let Israel defend itself without us going over there, getting thousands of our troops killed, spending half a trillion dollars, losing face in not being able to solve the civil war in Iraq, and perhaps most importantly, fueling the fire of additional radical recruitment. Don't try to say that these things aren't happening or that they aren't crucial.
"It isn't a question of whether the war on terrorism can be won."
No?
Take a poll on the U.S. public about now and see what the majority of your fellow Americans think about that.
Can a war against bad weather be won?
Terrorism, like storms, can come suddenly and are hard to prevent or stop. To expect the U.S. to be successful against guerilla warfare that's spiked with suicide attacks, is, well, a bit over the top.
Perhaps we are at an impasse on this point.
If so, fare thee well.
That's why I think it's not a bad idea to let Israel defend itself without us going over there, getting thousands of our troops killed, spending half a trillion dollars, losing face in not being able to solve the civil war in Iraq, and perhaps most importantly, fueling the fire of additional radical recruitment. Don't try to say that these things aren't happening or that they aren't crucial.
you're arguing in circles. our troops are not fighting in Israel they are fighting in Iraq. like I said before you don't have to mention Israel to get radicals to start calling us the great satan. we will be the great satan whether there is an Israel or not. if it is not one thing it will be another that is the nature of radicalism and that is my point, you can't keep pacifying radicals. sooner or later you are going to have to deal with them. If you don't believe this read about Charles Manson, the Symbionese Liberation Army, The Shining Path, The Mau Mau.. etc. pick a country pick a group, pick your war pick all of these things and the common denominator is radicalism. it really has less to do with religion or race than it does people who chose to be unreasonable.
What is it, NOT going over there in the Middle East cauldron and NOT fighting pre-emptive wars against Israel's enemies is tantamount to "pacifying" in your eyes?
"We will be the great satan whether there is an Israel or not."
So what. We can't please everybody.
Our troops are fighting Israel's enemies: militant Islam!
Israel is happy we're doing that for them, BTW.
In fact, they'd like us to do even more.
(Just refer to some of the things that one of their fine promoters, Paul Wolfowitz, used to say.)
What is it, NOT going over there in the Middle East cauldron and NOT fighting pre-emptive wars against Israel's enemies is tantamount to "pacifying" in your eyes?
I thought the world trade center, the pentagon and various jet airliners were actually over here. my bad.
1) their primary focus has been to eliminate Israel.
2) but the U.S. has been standing in their way because we've been helping Israel too much.
3) it's not hard to understand they're pissed at us too and WE became vulnerable as a jihad target as well as Israel.
Hence, 9/11 and other crap.
"We will be the great satan whether there is an Israel or not."
So what. We can't please everybody.
ummm, yeah. ok. great. I'm glad we could have this talk. have a good evening.
"I thought the world trade center, the Pentagon and various jet airliners were actually over here."
And twice I have said the main reason why: Our misguided emphasis on coddling and nurturing that little nation over there, against our best interests!
Hell, they don't even have any OIL for our benefit (a little levity there, for comic relief)
We didn't get attacked for nothing; we didn't get attacked because we didn't play Islamic music on our radio stations or something. Had to be a significant reason.
Oh, wait! I forgot. They DON'T think.
So, I guess they attacked us without thinking; without a good reason. Isn't that your mindset for what a typical radical is?
Yep, I suppose they just attacked us at random. Maybe they put the names of a bunch of nations on separate pieces of paper, mixed them up in a hat and had Bin Laden draw one of them out -- and there it was, the U.S.A. Yeah, maybe that was it.
Wow.
I'm just on my way to dreamland here, but I just wanted to quickly add something (setting Israel aside for the moment, cause that's a whole different ballgame)...just keep in mind that Radical Islamists hate our whole way of life in the West...they hate our music, our movies, the way we dress, our freedoms, they hate it that our women are in schools and get educated...actually, just about anything that we have and do..they hate...us..period...AND, their whole purpose on this little ole' earth right now, is to wipe us off of it!
I'm pretty sure they're use of little old Mickey here was really just to PIdoubleSS us off...it's quite the mockery really.
Hey, Pepe, no offense, but ...
those things you mentioned about "our way of life in the West" are true; however, not unique to the U.S.A., are they. I mean, most European nations sport similar music, movies, attire, freedoms, women's rights to education, etc.
It is noted how terrorist attacks have come to Coalition countries (mostly European) other than the U.S., yet our nation was singled out for the worst -- those 9/11 attacks -- wasn't it.
Still, some people prefer to discount the significance of why that occurred.
Not me.
Yeah, no denying the situation is in a super mess now.
I just don't want folks to escape facing the main reason WHY (because it hardly EVER gets mentioned).
The #1 thorn in the side of radical Islam is Israel.
In various ways for decades, the U.S. has helped Israel by means of foreign aid and logistic support and U.N. pressure to enable her to better stand up to her Islamic neighbors; some key militants finally couldn't put up with America's on-going monumental assistance to their main enemy any longer, so they punished us with those attacks in September 2001.
The number 1 thorn in radical islam's side are infidels, not Jews. Its just that Jews are the closest infidels in proximity. They are not too fond of Lebanese Christians either. I don't recall that the crusuades were carried on by Jews.
Do you actually believe that Islamists will accept christians as equals after they murder all the jews?
What really pisses them off is that they have a serious inferiority complex. I mean, after all, the Jews have been a lot more successful in general over the last thousand years, nothwithstanding diaspora and the holocaust, don't you think? I mean - controlling the media and all those banks, without land or oil. Pretty clever, huh?
Bottom line. Fuck the middle East. Solar power now. Then you won't have to cowtow to muslims or jews, eh pissimist?
Ps: And you say your point of view hardly gets mentioned? On what planet?
The planet MelGibson?
PPS: Europe is considered "the West." Originally "West" meant west of Rome.
Persia was the "East" before they discovered china.
PPS: The Unibomber, Timothy McVeigh, Leon Czolgosh, Charles Giteau, Lee Harvey Oswald, the the Kamikaze were not muslims. Lets not get excited. The problem is oil and texans and Haliburton. The military industrial complex needs war and strife to make money (hot or cold - star wars was a grand masturbatory experience for them all from 1980 -1988; Gulf War I wasn't bad; Kosovo was cool. But this Iraq shit is GREAT!!!!). Just what the hell do you think Eisenhower was referring to in his farewell speech? The Mossad?
In summary, you haven't added any knowledge or historical analysis that I hadn't heard a thousand times before. You have the insight of a clam.
Your allusion to Charles Martel is not correct - the muslims had already conquered Spain before the Battle of Tours. (Remember Othello?) I think you meant the The Battle of Vienna which took place on September 11 and September 12, 1683 after Vienna had been besieged by the Ottoman Empire for two months. "The battle broke the advance of the Ottoman Empire into Europe, and marked the political hegemony of Habsburg dynasty." - (from Wikipedia of course).
"The number 1 thorn in radical islam's side are infidels, not Jews."
The number 1 thorn in radical islam's side IS the nation of Israel first, then other infidels.
"Do you actually believe that Islamists will accept Christians as equals after they murder all the Jews?"
I implied that? Where?
" . . .controlling the media and all those banks, without land or oil. Pretty clever, huh?"
I'm not disputing those accomplishments.
"P.S: And you say your point of view hardly gets mentioned?"
In mainstream media, friend.
Not counting esoteric internet websites and fringe literature.
"PPS: Europe is considered "the West."
Hmm. Looking at a globe and where the international date line is, I could swear the U.S. is technically to be considered The West (at least the Westernmost nation). My compass could be wrong, though.
"PPS: The Unibomber, Timothy McVeigh, Leon Czolgosh, Charles Giteau, Lee Harvey Oswald, the the Kamikaze were not Muslims. Let's not get excited."
Say that calming down consolation to captdunsel, not me.
According to the way he wrote, he's the one whose vehemence may want the U.S. to go out and attack Islamic fundamentalists (in any nation, wherever they may be found?). He must be one of those fine supporters of pre-emptive warfare ... in a dreamland of success.
"Just what the hell do you think Eisenhower was referring to in his farewell speech?"
(For everyone's benefit, I'm answering): Military industrial complex - which, according to him, was THE supposedly evil center of power on the planet.
Yet that's not the only thing in the world to worry about, is it.
It wasn't even the only thing to worry about 45 years ago.
"In summary, you haven't added any knowledge or historical analysis that I hadn't heard a thousand times before."
And neither have you!
You're a sort of history buff, and you likely have an interest in all things Jewish, so I would expect you to be aware of most anything that's been put out there -- writings of all sorts of historical persepectives & viewpoints, including some of the information on various websites. But I still contend that the average American could NOT give the main reason why 9/11 happened.
"You have the insight of a clam."
Where did that insult come from?
Do you have the corner on insight?
Does captdunsel?
How is my insight mistaken about Israel being radical Islam's #1 thorn in their side?
(Israel first, then all other "infidels".)
And where is my insight lacking about that paragraph I wrote at 1:07 a.m. today?
(Please re-read.)
I hope you wouldn't contend that the primary cause of 9/11 was the product of the mindset of the military industrial complex???
On second thought, nah, I give you credit for thinking better than a clam.
"Ponder this - why hasn't Israel dropped the big one?"
Hasn't needed to yet. The time may come. But the U.S.'s help or lack of it doesn't necessarily impact that issue.
They CAN defend themselves, and will, when the chips are down and their survival depends upon it.
You don't doubt that, do you?
"So the U.S. should abandon isreal so we can buy more time before we all get slaughtered by the Caliphs?"
We should just fight endless, unwinnable wars against terrorism and keep depleting our resources and our resolve!
(NOT!)
I'd dignify your question with a detailed response, but I must get on my way to work soon.
"So, the U.S. should abandon isreal so we can buy more time before we all get slaughtered by the caliphs?"
We should just fight endless, unwinnable wars against terrorism and keep depleting our resources and our resolve!
(NOT!)
I'd dignify your question with a detailed response, but I must get on my way to work soon.
BTW, I am against the Iraq war and think we should have pulled out once the WMD's weren't ther, and maybe should have not gone at all, since Saddam was behaving himself since 1991. But that's not the point. The point is the nature of islam, and its intractability toward world domination that must be addressed. It wasn't so bad after the Battle of Vienna, until they discovered oil.
Jews don't proselytze at all, Christians do it subtly these days. Islamists, on the other are religous fascists.
At bottom, this is post-colonial revenge of the victims of Anglo-American 20th century imperialism, pure and simple. I read Bin ladin's Fatwah, and thats all it is. Your Israel analysis is simplistic (there are many Jews who think that Israel was a big mistake, that Jerusalem should be an international city, that the occupied territories should be returned, that Israel should not be so close with the US, that socialism is better than capitalism, etc,) and dangerous because if my historical analysis is right, you are selling out freedom of religion and freedom from religio-fascism (with the caliphate being substituted for the corporate partner of the state).
So don't assume you have stumbled on some great insight. There are larger issues at play, many many levels above the simplistic "lets not piss the Arabs off".
BTW, Islam is now largely centered in Indonesia anyway. Why on earth should a muslim in Jakarta care about a jew in Tel Aviv, unless death to the jews were part of muslim orthodoxy? Thats what you are dealing with - muslim orthodoxy. Thats why many israelis will not back down - ever. Its a death struggle.
On the other hand, whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger, don't you think?
No one will be able to sit out this one.
You are championing Neville Chamberlainism, I prefer Franklin Rooseveltism.
"The #1 thorn in the side of radical Islam is Israel."
The #1 thorn in Germanys side was Austria. they were eliminated. then the #1 thorn in their side was Chech. that was eliminated. Suddenly Poland became the #1 thorn and was eliminated. France and Britian tried to stop them. how dare they. they became the #1 thorn in poor Germanys side. The Soviets, well we have to get rid of them too. suddenly the whole world persecuted those poor nazis who was only trying to presurve their way of life and they had no choice but to attack their enemies and defend themselves from a racist world who hated them.
Yes Neville Chamberlin would be proud of all you liberals.
You say, "Islam must be addressed."
Okay, but it would have been better to have done something (or rather refrained from doing something) about that long ago. And I'm not only talking about our counterproductive policy toward Israel. I feel as you do -- Iraq was a blunder.
At the time most of the public were willing to give George W. the go-ahead, I'm on record as telling quite a few folks three things:
1) Why is George so sure of WMD when the U.N. inspectors couldn't find any?
2) Charging into a nest of hornets isn't a good idea unless you have a good exit plan.
3) There's a good chance we could de-stabilize the region and create worse anti-American sentiment, possibly adding fuel to militant Islam recruitment.
(I've since been vendicated on all three counts.)
In addition to dozens of fellow members of a computer club organization, most of those I tried to discussed this with at work, as well as among my friends, didn't say much, but it was their expression or absence of a response that really made an impression on me. I knew then I was quite in the minority.
Yeah, I know; that's water beyond the bridge.
So, given the U.S.'s poor track record in asymmetrical warfare (VietNam and now Iraq), I'm truly curious what course of action you think will lead to achieving whatever goal you would express. Please elaborate!
Would you want to be pro-active, even aggressive? (I hope you don't suggest we should attack Iran.)
Much of our military resources have been squandered, but we still have some mighty weapons even besides nuclear (a last resort, admittedly). However, the American people aren't favorably disposed toward any more mililtary engagements about now.
One option is to let things cool off, build our resources back up, and get better vision for a future "crusade", heh-heh.
(Or, at the least, prepare the best we can to DEFEND against a major confrontation.)
So, again, considering our country's abysmal performance in unconventional warfare, what would be your plan?
You've really got me wondering what kind of "great insight" YOU think we should be using in the context of the current situation.
"some key militants finally couldn't put up with America's on-going monumental assistance to their main enemy any longer, so they punished us with those attacks in September 2001."
again, (and again and again and again) get the facts straight.
9/11 was bin laden's baby. he pulled this off. in fact he tried once before in 1995 and we didn't pay attention then either. it was not the palestinians it was a fanatic who wanted to kill everyone and everything that he does not like. and for the record there were muslims in the world trade center so his fanaticism clearly outweighed his supposed values towards his religion. This attack really didn't have much to do with Israel.
now for the question do I have a corner on insight? I dunno about that but I do have a pretty good grasp of criminal and psychotic behavoir. after all I was taught by some of the best in the business
and for the record
"He must be one of those fine supporters of pre-emptive warfare ... in a dreamland of success."
ask moammar qaddafi if pre-emptive strikes work. If memory serves correctly qaddafi figured out pretty quickly that if he kept supporting bin laden he was gonna be toast and arranged osama a ride out of his country. truth is stranger than that novelty shop at 39th and market streets.
Here you go pessimist; Israel Dismantles; World's Problems End.
_____________________________________
Persistent rhetoric coming from concerned progressive critics worldwide has finally convinced Israeli officials that the state of Israel has no moral right to exist. "That's it," Prime Minister Ariel Sharon explained at a press conference. "We are dismantling the Nation of Israel. I'm leaving for Poland next week."
______________________________________
"My cabinet and I had long discussions about world troubles, and we concluded that our critics are right - all the troubles can be traced back to us. So, in order to resolve these issues, we felt it would be best to extend our withdrawal beyond Gaza to include the West Bank and Israel proper," Sharon said. "The Gaza pullout was only a test, and the ensuing waves of peace and brotherhood it had triggered in Palestine and beyond, encouraged us to disband altogether. Without us here, people of the world will finally be able, once again, to live in permanent harmony and understanding - just like they all did before Israel's founding nearly sixty years ago."
____________________________________
Regarding: 9/11 was bin laden's baby . . . a fanatic who pulled this off --
Last time I checked, Bin Laden was a type of leader of a group of Islamic militants (then and now)... not just the specific ones involved in 9/11. There are various groups of militants in the Middle East, aren't there.
"This attack really didn't have much to do with Israel."
Some may call 9/11 an isolated event by a fanatic and a few others.
Others may call it a planned plot of retribution against what Islamic radicals perceive to be a "great satan" who supports their ("Allah's") number 1 foe.
You're welcome to your opinion and to leave dots unconnected.
"It was not the Palestinians . . ."
I never said it was. HOWEVER . . .
At least some Palestinians were delighted about 9/11 occurring (I recall t.v. footage showing a number of them dancing in the street as a symbolic celebration).
Also, did you get to see some of the clips of reactions from Arab t.v. coverage following 9/11?
I don't think it unreasonable to say that there was considerable support for what a major player in Middle East militancy had planned with some of his jihad troops.
When I talked about "pre-emptive warfare ... in a dreamland of success ..."
I thought the topic was about Iraq (already a failure) and the potential for attacking Iran (a similar fate could eaily follow the outcome of that as well).
Perhaps I didn't clarify my point at that time; if so, I extend my regret.
Compmore:
Labels (conservative; liberal; Democrat; Republican) should be considered unhelpful except for political advantage. I know, "should be" isn't the real world; but it's sad that someone's position on issues might be diminished if not discounted by pointing a certain label at them.
Re:
"liberal"
"fascist"
etc.
I'd rather not play those name games; I'll just let others do that.
Read his Fatwah. He called for holy war against the US because they overstayed their welcome after the Gulf war in 1991. They were looking for something to do after they kicked Russian ass in Afghanistan in 1989. They figured if they could beat the Russians, then maybe we were a paper tiger too.
perhaps the use of the word Liberal wasn't accurate in this case. I was refering to the extremists in this country. I am an independent myself. I will rephrase it...
Neville Chamberlin would be proud of all this apeasement attitude toward these radicals.
BTW . . . compmore or captdunsel:
While waiting for leflaw to render his plan in dealing with radical Islam, how about telling us what YOURS would be?
[initial bars of dreamland music warming up]
The problem is what you would like to have done stands a limited chance of getting done right, anyway; thus, there has to be a contingency option avialable as well...and then hope like hell it, too, doesn't fall flat.
Then again, perhaps you have more confidence in the leadership abilities of contemporary presidents AND our military's potential regarding asymmetrical warfare than a lot of other people (including myself), so have a go at it!
This is pathetic Leflaw. I recall your greatest hit "Hilary Duff is a Nazi." Why would anyone such as myself want his name and reputation associated with your drunken ravings?
Notwithstanding your privilege to post anything you want--please note that the music sharing community has fled. Perhaps it was the rude intervention of TWarrior that drove everyone away.
But your own international political observations, Leflaw, are a mess.. Nobody cares. At this point I will post Thumbtack's redneck comments, for your enjoyment.
(quote)
]The attention today seems to be turning toward Roanoke Firearms which sold the shooter the Glock 19 last Friday. They are ignoring the Pawn shop across Main street from the campus that sold the shooter the Walther P22 he was carrying.
I know the owner of the gun shop. I've bought 4 firearms from them, and have taken the concealed carry class John teaches. Just looking at the photos of him that are popping up, he is clearly upset to anyone who knows him. BTW a lot of law enforcement purchases their weapons there.
pretty sure I said this before... not much point in debate here.
tomsong
the music sharing community fled long ago. all they really cared about was finding a way to keep themselves from getting caught by the riaa. I can only remember a handful of people who visited this site who actually cared about producing and trying to create music or change the business. the rest were just worried about lawsuits. george z was right all along.
it's time for me to leave this thread. you guys have a good night.
PA pulls Hamas TV children`s program with mock Mickey Mouse advocating violence
_____________________________________
A program using a Mickey Mouse-like character to urge Palestinian children to fight Israel and the West and work for world Islamic domination has been pulled off Hamas' television station for review, the Palestinian information minister said Wednesday.
_____________________________________
"The world loves children and this [show] is just going against the grain of humanity," Diane Disney Miller told the New York Daily News.
"What we're dealing with here is pure evil and you can't ignore that."
_____________________________________
Just like radical Islam America too poses a threat to world politics. America has its own ideological, economical, and religious agenda when it comes to foreign policy. This private agenda is mostly fueled by the rich and goverment elitists of the nation. As ludicrous as this Mickey Mouse spoof is to our democratic way of thinking we too are fanatics of a different kind. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. May we look inward before we judge others.
Yeah, it's sort of like ChillinBuzz wrote: "democracy" — the U.S. government euphemism for global intimidation and bullying.
America's ostensibly noble penchant for exporting democracy can be misused, or rather misapplied (has been and is).
I'm thinking of the Middle East, and there are a number of factors that come into play regarding that -- some idiological but very practical reasons. Too much of our nation is steeped in cultural ethnocentricity, and if I may say, arrogantly so.
Perhaps I could elaborate on that in a subsequent post.
Spee wrote:
"Just like radical Islam, America too poses a threat to world politics. America has its own ideological, economical, and religious agenda when it comes to foreign policy. This private agenda is mostly fueled by the rich and goverment elitists of the nation."
Yes, that's true, sad to say. So, as leflaw said, Eisenhower wasn't far off the mark when he warned about the military industrial complex... embodied at present by the Bush and Cheney administration and various corporations that have vested interests in military contracts, oil prices, etc. -- not just Halliburton or the Carlyle Group. What really frustrates genuine patriots is how most Americans seem to be aware of this lamentable trend but still don't demand needed change. Evidence, to wit: specifically, they re-elected a corrupt adminstration for a second term in 2004, but even more significantly, they continue to cling to the delusion of the present entrenched two-party political system which is both corrupt and self-serving. . . opting to bask in a false comfort (referred to by that pessimist poster as a label of Republican or conservative vs. Democrat or liberal). What is needed is more voters to demand better choices, and in the meantime consider voting libertarian.
Being "independent" isn't good enough to make a real difference IF all it involves is alternating exclusively between either of the two main parties!
Change is gotta start somewhere. People need to be encouraged to vote for the best candidate to serve even if he/she DOESN'T stand a good chance to win in the present circumstances. Help and do your part to CHANGE the circumstances, one vote at a time!
The way things are now, politically, is nothing short of pathetic. And, thus, as long it remains so, the future is bleak. . .
(and probably more perilous than necessary).
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything
else, that prevents people from living freely and nobly."
— Bertrand Russell
(Hey, that's certainly pervasive in our society, isn't it.)
Ive no problem with a political thread at a musical site. This threads feeds three (four?) differant and related sites. Dmusic, for independant musicains and fans, Gnetulla, for "pirates" , and boycott-riaa, a political site devoted to changing the laws in copyright and against mega-corperate control over everthing we see and hear....
meh better descriptions are in order... but my basic point still stands. No problem with a political thread....
Every male in my family has seen combat since my great great great (great?) grandfather William Whipple freed blacks to serve against England's king and stole (er um "comendered") English ships. (Argh ) Look up Justice Chambers and see what my blood did against Hitler's reich. If I wish to know military history I simply ask a vetern. The news media is too controlled and slanted.
Many people talk as if the attack on 9/11/01 was the first Islamic Fundy attack against the US on US soil, somewhere I found a page explaining most of the Islamic Fundy attacks since 1958, many on our soil, most on bases (man I wish I wuz better at finding links, but google sucks ass). Another interresting page (and PBS show) is the connection between the Islamic Fundamentals (and Radicals) and the Nazis. Seems the guys who formed the Bath Party served in Hitler's war machine.... Hitler had hatred for Jews to unite his people, Saddam had Kurds. Hitler claimed the world hated him because of being a superior race, Saddam said the world hates him because he's islamic....
Seems to me the America that some of the rest of the world hates, is the same Corperate-Owned America that I dislike and our Founding Fathers would hate.
I have to agree, at times it seems the US supports Isreal NO MATTER WHAT, and that's wrong. But that doesnt justify any attack against us. Nothing has justified any attack against us.
I don't agree with what we are doing over there, but I do believe we should be in the Middle East, armed to the teeth, doing SOMETHING
May Mother Nature bless our men and women over seas, May Father Time keep our men and woman overseas safe, Be Well
pepe512000
independentm...
pessimist
Now back to 
leflaw
ChillinBuzz
InsaneWayne
, and boycott-riaa, 
) 
