Let's use a short-hand code and limit it to "CD vs Record"


Most of the CD's I have listened to STAND OUT on first listen. The old LP's can't beat them on overall loudness volume.

I am very quickly able to switch to a differnet song on a CD (and/or even CHANGE to another CD) if I want.

CD's do not have all the scratches and pops found on vinyl disks.

You can cram an entire syphony on the single side of a CD. LP's only have 20 to 40 minutes of quality audio per side. (The more audio info recorded, the less "fidelity" you can allow on an analogue thingy like an LP.)

DESPITE THE TRUTHINESS IN THE ABOVE...

I still prefer the old vinyl records.

Why?

DYNAMICS! (I'm no scientist, but I am fairly certain that is the proper term.)

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Folks, it is NOT the fault of the CD format itself...

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The REASON your mom/dad g'ma/g'paw's old records sound better is because the Recording Industry decided to monopolize and homoginize in persuit of the "holy almighty dollar"!

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Folks, EVEN at just 16 bits, I believe the CD is technically and usefully superior.

But, NONE of the RIAA labels have EVER released on CD proof of that concept. RIAA CD's are mixed for compressed loudness (so they can "stand out" on the radio)

--Shmoo
Support Locan and Independent Music!

Different track/train of thought...

one/some of you Audiophiles/Experts mull on this question...

When the "original" RIAA formed and subsequently created that analogue "RIAA curve"...

...was it deliberate early experimentation on techniques that have come to he known as DRM?

(Was it all conspiracy from the begining?)

My grandma died a couple of weeks ago. (Oh, YES I certainly DO miss her, and am still crying over the loss.)

She had in storage quite a huge colection of my old records.

Even tho I was a kid, and then later, a brash teanager, some of these records have survived in fairly good to great shape.

I used those against the CD replacements I subsequently bought as my "basis for comparison" insofar as my opinion at this moment on which format is "better"

It all depends on your purpose, your level of listening ability/desire, and your expectations/preconceptions.

LOL

(That means I told you absolutely NOTHING above!)

...other than to go and find out/experience for yourself

Make up your OWN damn mind!

"...was it deliberate early experimentation on techniques that have come to he known as DRM?"

Absolutely. They had a patent on the RIAA curve and you have to pay them for the right to use it in a playback device, if they let you use it at all.

CDs vs Records
the big differance is in the playback. The average portable CD player is of better quality then the AVERAGE record player of 1984. Yes there wuz that guy who owned a lineir tracking turntable suspended in fluid with a quartz locked direct drive motor.... that'll blow away the best CDs has to offer (you can hear someone plug in their guitar on Pick Floyd's The Wall, you can clearly hear what the mumbling is in Beatles records, ect ect)
the other big differance is daily care. It's easier to care for CDs then for records. I have the entire original Kiss in perfect condition, but Sgt Pepper's is plain ol' wore out.

Digital is good enough for the masses tho'. Home recording is now cheep and easy with many Indies having better sounding studio techniques then the RIAA-owned "wall of sound" and compressed loudness crapola. hell, listen to Shmoo's and George's studios; better recorded then Madonna's last CD!

First of all, the premise of this is flawed. The vinyl record is limited due to the laws of physics.

There is very little low end below 50Hz. The cutting heads of the lathes could not handle it.

The reason that there are more dynamics on LPs than most CDs has absolutely nothing to do with the medium. There are many CDs mixed and mastered with dynamic range. You will not find them in the top 40, but they are out there. It is all part of the loudness war, because people will think whatever is louder and brighter sounds better.

I could make a CD and LP sound close. There are many other engineers that are doing that now.

I forgot. The reasons most given for LPs and CDs sound differently is flawed.

For decades, mastering engineers mastered at the cutting lathe. They knew how to get the most out of their machines and the vinyl. They worked with engineers so that the mixing engineers knew how to bump and cut EQ. Too much of a boost at specific frequencies would ruin the master, sending the cutter off into a tizzy. There was also the consideration of the listening environment. When more people began listen to audio through 1970s Jensen Triaxial speakers in their cars, that changed the EQ curve. The bass bump was higher than it is today. Most records had a warmer bass tone as a result. It was not low, but it was well represented, and hit harder, higher than mixes do today.

Those early CDs were still mixed and mastered by old record guys. They had no idea what they were doing. Or in many case, LP masters were transfered to CD, which REALLY sucked, because the environment had changed drastically.

To me, there has to be some sort of ambience factor. I mean, whether it's vinyl or digital music that's in progress, I go just outside to the entrance of the room where the speakers are, close my eyes and try to imagine to myself: "Could they (the artists) be playing in there?"
If my gut reaction is, "No way it's real!", then something (could be several things) needs improving.
Okay, I know, very imprecise -- but, hey, perception is virtual reality.

The best investment you can make is a DBX range expander. It allows you to adjust the output of a CD so it sounds almost as warm as vinyl. Personally, I do it by ear, but the oscilloscope doesn't lie, the thing's worth its weight in gold. You can find a decent used rackmount for $250 or so. 2-channel, 1/4 inch in/out into the effects loop of the preamp or EQ. And yes, I prefer my vinyl, too, but CDs don't wear out as you play 'em, so I put my favorite vinyl on CD.

RF

Ambience factor....that's understandable. It isn't likely, but understandable.

This is how I mix. I place the musicians and instruments in the room, as if they were recording together, and mix in compressed room mics to capture the room.

So much of todays music is done on the cheap in a bunch of smaller spaces that aren't really studios, and it is reflected with smeared ambience. The music sounds like what it is.

If only bands were good and COULD play at the top of their game in a few takes all at once.

i've had the rare pleasure of sitting in a darkened room, listening to an electronically generated track that i'd been involved with get cut on a newman lathe, and call me fanciful, but i could feel the energy pulsing in that room, and feel the magic being drawn into those cutting heads, and onto the master thingy.

a few hundred pressings later, take it back to the club, and that bit of vinyl beat the living daylights out of the test CDs for pure oomph on the dance floor. maybe it was just the two analogue smoothings inherent in transferring to a cutting head and back through the playing needle, maybe it was the magic of what happened in that cutting room, but something made that vinyl special.

and yes. vinyl wears out, and yes, cds are handy, and yes, modern CD tables give the touchy feely thing back, but i've so many fond memories of vinyl use that i'd still be glad to see more of my tunes make it to vinyl (not that i make dance these days)

all we need is a way to make 5.1 vinyl!

I started expiramenting with recording back in high school band and choir days, long before digital meant anything other then watches lol Depending on what one is trying to capture depends on what techniques to use. Im still trying to figure out the ins and outs of digital, something much differant then analog tape. Rock and country bands are much differant then the high school jazz band.... perhaps a trip to the high school with some equipment is in order to teach myself a few things...
anyways, don't reject either format and limit yourself to only one way to playback music. Hackers have the best programing before megacorps figure em out, and Im sure Indies will figure out better digital recordings before Madonna does

Have any of you used any of the USB turntables out there? Are they worth they money, or would I be better off using Audacity and a patch cable? I have a bunch of old Albums and 45s that my Wife and I collected when we were young, and it would be nice to make mp3s of them for listening at work.

Newman is actually Neumann (Noy-mon).