p2pnet.net news:- Grisoft partner AVG UK & Ireland is offering free software to detect and remove rootkits, intended to, "conceal running processes, files or system data from the operating system," as the Wikipedia describes them.

The most infamous example of recent times was Sony BMG's dangerous-to-computers rootkit spyware hidden on music CDs. It installed itself without buyers' knowledge, and Sony BMG is still reaping the fallout.

Rootkits, "were originally used by hackers to cover their tracks after unauthorised access to computers," says Grisoft. "Today, these techniques have been redesigned in order to mask the presence of malicious software used to gather and exploit personal information such as credit card numbers and social security numbers creating a serious threat to users," says Grisoft, going on:

"Rootkits have become a severe threat in comparison to traditional malware because conventional antivirus often misses the hidden rootkit. They execute by embedding applications within the operating system, which is also an essential application to many necessary programs including antivirus protection, so it is important to correctly distinguish between malicious rootkits and legitimately hidden processes."

Click here for an Anti-Rootkit download.

http://free.grisoft.com/doc/5390#avg-anti-rootkit-free

There is one problem in dealing with rootkits and other spyware. Once your computer is infected, you can no longer trust your computer to tell you the truth. Once you have been infected, really the only way to make sure that your clean is to format your hard drive, and re-install your OS (or use your restore CD's).

Rootkits, by their design, work to avoid detection. Without getting way to technical, your computer works by poling the running services on your computer. This is done by running down the list of what is running (if you open Task Manager, you can see more easily what I'm talking about). Computers poll from one service to the next, via a hyper thread method, as each service that is running relys on the one before and after it to report that it's running. What a root kit does is break the link between it's self, and the software runing around it. Basically, it causes the OS to look at the service before the rootkit, and the kit tricks the OS to ignore that the rootkit is there, and skip to the next service.

In order to detect that a rootkit is there, you need to have an outside OS look at your computer, and do a system list of running services (not fail proof, by the way). Root Kit revealer is one that you can use that does just this.

As I said before, if you think your infected, the only way to make sure that your clean is to format your drive, and restore your instalation.

Beware of Sony DVDs, too.

Word is that their "new copy protection" also prevents them from playing in a lot of DVD players.

Rootkits will start to act like viruses as time goes on, being designed to foil the anti-rootkit software. In the meantime, don't just rely on one application and be wary of all results.

Other applications around include Rootkit Revealer, Darkspy & IceSword - However these don't do any actual cleaning as such but work in slightly different ways, which may or may not dig out potential rootkits that other apps miss. *Caution: Use these apps at your own risk, you can seriously bugger an otherwise clean machine with them*

gdZiemann wrote:
Word is that their "new copy protection" also prevents them from playing in a lot of DVD players.

I haven't heard that, but given the track record Sony has with their Rootkit, I'd say it's a possibility, but it would be more likely to be on Sony's HD format disks, and not normal DVD's. With the agreements that have gone around for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, it would be very easy for a manufacturer decide that their encription method has been broken, and for them to update the copy protection on disks to force an update to the Decript chip in the player, and revoke older codes. And, as a consumer, you have no rights, as you are only licencing the movies that you "purchase."

This is also part of Windows Vista, as part of the DRM tied into the OS. While I'm fairly happy with Vista, I don't use that machine to watch high def content, nor to listen to CD's.

ChillinBuzz also wrote:
*Caution: Use these apps at your own risk, you can seriously bugger an otherwise clean machine with them*

The same can be said of the Spyware detection software. It's fairly good, but if you get rid of the wrong thing while using it, you can hose your system.

Your best bet is to do a complete system backup occasionally, and should you get infected with something, you can go back to that last known good image. You should also back up your documents and other things that you can't loose regularly, just in case the worst happens.

Can't a knowledgeable person start up their operating system in an alternative mode so as to go into the resource editor to locate and eliminate rootkits?
If so, that wouldn't require any speical application at all.

Off topic:
(But, what the hell, we don't have a current off-topic thread on page 1 anymore, despite recent assurances to the contrary) —
So, here goes a little comandeering . . .


Referring to the Virginia Tech massacre:

Our society really needs to stop and think about some things.
Number 1 should be how males could be encouraged and supported, from upbringing years through school and beyond, to work at SOLVING THEIR PERSONAL PROBLEMS WITHOUT VIOLENCE, damn it.
IF IT CAN APPRECIABLY HELP to eliminate brutal movies & t.v. shows and violent video games, then let's do it!
Why are we as a society so damn timid about doing what common sense should say is right and avoiding what common sense would say is not right? Those who sniffle cries of "censure" deserve to find themselves censured in matters of deciding the obvious basis of what's decent and what ain't. Let common sense prevail!

Here's the rationale: 95% of the cases of brutality and abuse are committed by males. Ditto the same gender for the starting of wars. I could go on; but you get my drift.
There has to be some significant reasons for the causes, and likewise there has to be some sginificant reasons to counteract this despicable trend.
Boys need to be brought up with viable alternatives to catering to macho and hurtful ways to get things done or remedy their problems.

Somebody -- no, MANY somebodies -- need to recognize, emphasize, and clamor for change!
And don't bother about how the main blame ought to be put on firearms (the murder tools of choice). Some, yes, but not most, of the trouble belongs with weapons.
(Just as some, but not all, of the blame belongs to bad movies, t.v., and games.)

CHANGE IS NEEDED!
The big question is: when, and what will it take???
How much more senseless tragedies and loss of life???

"The answer, my friend,
is blowing in the wind."
—Robert Zimmerman

We could control some of the extent of gun availability and some of the extent of violent entertainment, but, again, the real need is to somehow re-educate the male mindset from little on!
We have such a major, major problem . . .
and WHO IS ADDRESSING IT???
WHO?

Alright, some additional perspective to bring better balance:

Males AND females, from a tender age onward, could be rewarded by our culture for PRODUCTIVE use of their activity and assertiveness — choosing to channel energy in ways that don't lead to hostility (physical injury or hurt feelings for others) but still achieve personal goals or other forms of gratifification in pursuit of happiness . . .

Acknowledging the value of this scenario and Imagining it as a potential reality is the first important step.
Why can't we as a culture, collectively, take that step?

Either very few people are reading what I've posted, or they're not inclined to respond. Mystifying.

Well, there's more food for thought.
I'll keep coming with controversy until somebody engages me in conversation, because change is way overdue in this pathetic nation we're putting up with.

I'm usually not favorably disposed toward federal legislation, but we can make an exception now and then (in reasonable matters).
Let's decide on criteria for classifying a person as unstable enough to qualify as a sociopath. Such a dysfunctional individual should not be permitted to purchase or own certain weapons (specifically: firearms; explosive or detonation devices; radioactive substances; toxins. They should also be barred from entering hazardous facilities. Perhaps their I.D. needs to be so noted accordingly for all of these restrictions, and significant incarceration penalty for failure to follow the rules. We need to better protect society from wackos.)

Designated unstable/sociopathic people should be barred from being granted visa or immigration status into our country.
Note: That alone would have prevented Mohammed Atta, and most of his ilk, from entering the U.S.
Atta was a primary facilitator of the horrors of 9/11/01.

Fodder for reflection:
At what point is a sociopath at risk of becoming a psychopath?
(Red flags may present themselves.
Example: In various ways, Cho was a "loose cannon", a walking "time bomb" that could have been EXPECTED to eventually "blow up" -- himself and others. And, guess, what . . . HE DID!)

The big question is: What the hell are we as a collective society going to do about trying to make this kind of crap harder to happen in the future???

Here's MY answer: I predict America WON'T learn the right lesson from this tragedy anymore than it did from previous tragedies.
We may be technologically astute and oh-so-savvy about a lot of things, but, really, Americans are notoriously door-nail dumb when it comes to prevention or logical remediation.

Hmm. Have I gotten anyone's attention out there yet?

Comment on the gun control push secondary to the Virginia Tech incident "
1) Cho was not an American citizen. He was here on a Green Card. The second Amendment should apply to American citizens
2) Cho was not right in head. Read his two plays he wrote. These were obviously the product of someone who not only had "issues", but very likely had serious mental and emotional problems
3) If some of the 30 people he murdered were armed themselves, it is possible he would have been shot and stopped long before he slaughtered 30 innocents. Armed, even with only a 9mm Glock and 22 caliber, he was like a wolf among sheep since they were unarmed.
4) Cho did not break any laws (as far as I know) in regard to obtaining the firearms. The reports are that he had a receipt for the Glock, and purchased it in March. If someone is bent on killing people, they will do it somehow , someway, even if they use a baseball bat. Guns don't kill people by themselves, people kill people.

- EndofRant
~Code

" Here's MY answer: I predict America WON'T learn the right lesson from this tragedy anymore than it did from previous tragedies.
We may be technologically astute and oh-so-savvy about a lot of things, but, really, Americans are notoriously door-nail dumb when it comes to prevention or logical remediation. "

What, precisely, do you suggest ?
More ' laws' ?
Already laws against what he did.

What brilliant strategy can we use
that won't take away even more
individual liberties and freedoms ?

Isn't it possible, that as more and more
liberties are taken away to 'protect' us,
combined with the appearance that only
the wealthy and powerful are actually
protected, more people will feel as
desperate ?

No, it's no excuse at all, don't get me wrong ...

The harder you squeeze the bird, the more
desperate it will be to escape.

I think, only my opinion, if more wealthy
powerful CRIMINALS start getting served the
same 'justice' for the same crimes as those
with less ... status ... some of this may ease off.

That's never going to happen though.
Here come the political opportunists,
looking to squeeze more rights away,
squeezing even harder.

We're screwed

" 1) Cho was not an American citizen. He was here on a Green Card. The second Amendment should apply to American citizens "

Agree, wholeheartedly.

" 2) Cho was not right in head. Read his two plays he wrote. These were obviously the product of someone who not only had "issues", but very likely had serious mental and emotional problems "

Yup, the signs were all there, as far back as 2005, when committment papers were signed regarding him.


" 3) If some of the 30 people he murdered were armed themselves, it is possible he would have been shot and stopped long before he slaughtered 30 innocents. Armed, even with only a 9mm Glock and 22 caliber, he was like a wolf among sheep since they were unarmed. "

Tough call, but I tend to agree.

" 4) Cho did not break any laws (as far as I know) in regard to obtaining the firearms. The reports are that he had a receipt for the Glock, and purchased it in March. If someone is bent on killing people, they will do it somehow , someway, even if they use a baseball bat. Guns don't kill people by themselves, people kill people. "

Lots of anti-gun zealots will jump right on this one ..
as I said, the political opportunists are
foaming at the mouth.
We, as HUMANS see tragedy, they see
opportunity.
If guns were completely illegal, it probably would have made NO difference.
One way or another this determined freak would have
found a way to take as many out as possible, be it a
bomb, or ILLEGALLY purchased gun.
Banning them will only creat a nice lucrative
black market.

Not trying to flame ya gumpy,

I just believe that we would all be better
served by finding out what causes people
to snap like this.
Just looking around at what passes for
life in the US should give us all a huge
clue.

One last thing ....

Some people are just wired wrong.
Sometimes there IS no reason, other
than they are just f'in nuts.

There are no number of laws that will
EVER stop people like that from exploding.

Dredd — your comments noted; thanks.

With all the crap Cho had been pulling off for the last two years, this guy should have been locked away in an institution -- okay, mental institution. Yet our laws are too lenient, too heart-bleeding, to provide for that... despite the obvious plethora of documentation on him to support rationale for such.
But, you know what? Wouldn't someone like him having his ass locked up be immeasurably better than 32 innocent bodies of youth that had their life cut short and will be grieved over for decades?
You, the reader, be the judge.
I've already decided, thank you.

Alright, let's get down to brass tacks. Yes, if I had my way, there will occasionally be someone put away that wouldn't have gone on a rampage and wiped somebody out had they been permitted to put society at unnecessary risk (but we'll never know, will we)? A prime example is repetitive family abusers. Or, take the alternative, sort of throw discretion to the wind, kind of like the way things are now, and just let most kooks and wackos run amok and buy and wield firearms and see what we continue to get by NOT putting them away when the level of risk reaches what should be a reasonable point as it should have been with Cho.
(In fact, our laws are so lax, that this nut was considered eleigible to purchase a handgun last month, after all the blasted crap he had been doing, stalking, threatening, etc., and writing horrible stuff for almost two years!)
No, friend, I've had it with the American system.
It's broken.
And there's little hope of fixing it.
No functional protocol for putting dangerous people out of circulation.
(Oh, we can't do much of anything until he acts out his expressed aggression and threats, I can hear. By that logic, we don't need train signals at high-risk crossings until someone gets killed so as to truly affirm the danger.
Aburd as hell. No, worse. STUPID!!!)

Not enough stiff laws with strong teeth of significant punishment.
Not enough deterrence.
Not enough prevention.
Too many loopholes.
Too much plea bargaining.


[I'm really pissed this time, and I could keep going for awhile longer, but I'll relent and give you-all a break for a bit.]

"Mr. Bonnie said that it was not a simple matter to force people into treatment against their will. Lawyers, patients’ advocates, and psychiatrists have debated the question for decades."

It had better be made simpler, or you can keep debating and likewise keep anticipating more and more senseless tragedies thanks to sociopaths and nut jobs that run loose.
Those who exhibit compelling episodes of anti-social behavior and hostile attitudes need to be excluded from mainstream society for an undetermined period of time.
Period.

But, guess what? It won't happen.

I really think that's what pisses me off the most -- the fact that we live in a nation whose leaders and populace do not learn the best lessons from mistakes.
Logical strategies have been notoriously lacking, in all kinds of arenas. Consider the misguided direction our government so often takes in foreign affairs. Hell, specifically, just ponder the kinds of decisions our president has been making since he was re-elected.

What is it that's said about a fool? He doesn't change, but hopes for different (better) results anyway.
Yep, that's the U.S.A.
FOOLISH!

We haven't succeeded in Iraq since 2003, so what's the recommended solution now?
THERE IS NO GOOD SOLUTION except to let the fanatic factions fight it out among themselves, something Bush could have let them do four years ago. If a civil war isn't stoppable, then just let them have it!
After all, we pulled out of Lebanon twenty years ago, and THEY managed.

But no, we're supposed to pump more money and more troops into an obvious lost cause over there in Iraq, anyway. Anything less is unpatriotic and a disgrace to our nation or something, apparently.

A foolish nation led by a foolish leader. I guess that fits.

[exasperation; good Lord, save us from ourselves]

Did I manage to get anyone else stirred up yet?

The worst case of mass murder in a US school was in 1927 in Bath Michigan. 45 dead. The weapon of choice? Dynamite and a homemade bomb. No guns, AFAIK.

Actually, we need more sane people carrying guns. We need to develop in responsible citizens a greater sense of moral duty to get a gun and learn to properly use it -- for their safety and that of those around them. Even a crazy person may behave differently if there are people shooting back at him, instead of being able to move anywhere without resistance and kill at will.

Good point about guns for protection.

I want to weigh in with an observation about something else that's been brought up.
What can you expect from a nation that has a history of "justified" violent take-over (land from native Americans; manifest destiny), glorifies pre-emptive force in its military approach to foreign "problem-solving" (Iraq; next, Iran?), is enthralled with murder mysteries and fascinated with crime stories, and, oh, yeah, glorifies the bad-boy image practically everywhere?
Grumpy is right about that male macho problem of aggression that permeates society.
It is puzzling, isn't it, how this is such a huge issue and yet remains undebated and unchanged.

And I also should say: Aha, I see a few viewpoints of disgust and pessimism being posted on this forum and on several others around the internet.
Good! I hope the feeling spreads.
Maybe if more people get really fed up with the sorry state of affairs in this country,
there can be a chance for change.
At least, a slight chance.

— a rather rare glimmer of hope from a perennial pessimist

" Maybe if more people get really fed up with the sorry state of affairs in this country,
there can be a chance for change.
At least, a slight chance. "

Change things ??
How ?
By doing what ?

Voting ?
The programming is complete you know.
Us vs them, translating to Dem vs Rep.
Those who think realize that both are the
same, and the ILLUSION of choice reigns
supreme.

We can rage, be disgusted, etc about
the sorry state of affairs, but we can't
change a damn thing.
The ruling parties WANT things this way,
the WANT us to be divided and fearful.

I would expect more people to get
'fed up' and react the way this
coward did, and play right into the hands
of our rulers.

Good grief, NBC played right into his
hands.
What I think they should have done ?

Turn the package over to police,
Tell people they recieved the package,
show NONE of it.
If the families of the people the coward
killed wish to see it, they can ( they
are entitled ), but other than that ...
No one else.

Don't give these shits the incentive to
emulate this act by giving them what
they want.

Next,
Never speak the coward name again.
Henceforth he should only be referred to
as the Coward that killed all those people.
This way name is forgotten, but the
deed is remembered, and remembered
for what it was.

A pathetic act of cowardice.

All of this stuff works toward drastic gun control to have the public disarmed. Only then can a tyranny through martial law succeed. But I guess you know that.

I'm like you: There is very little chance things will change. But it doesn't hurt to have the public start to demand better government, more accountability for aggressive acts (beginning at boys' young ages), etc.
However, we would have to overturn the two major political parties to get any real difference in government — not likely to happen.

Probably nothing short of a revolution is what's needed. Fat chance of that occurring.

[exasperation]

A point to more sane people carrying guns... Insane people start off sane, surely... Arm them with guns, something sets them off. Result - Lots of newly insane people WITH GUNS. Not a good thought. And is it me or were the images he left behind of him holding guns looking remarkably like everyday images you see by rappers?


And on pessimist's query regarding alternative boot modes, rootkits have a tendancy to dig right down into the core of an operating system... I wonder if a dual boot system could be an answer there.

Quentin Tarantino writes horrific stuff...is he nuts? Suicide bombers go to school to learn their "craft" are they nuts?

How about accumulating a choice list of appropriate adjectives to cover those kinds of people (terrorists included). In no particular order, what do you think about these:
misguided
self-serving
detrimental
unaccountable


Feel free to go ahead and add some more.

Notably absent are references to lack of sanity,
because most of these folk who harm a segment of society, or even the society in general, don't actually lose touch with enough of reality to be labelled as insane.

When children grow up without disipline, they never learn self disipline.

Without consequences for your actions, no-one learns reponsible behavior.

Civility and respect go out the window when all that matters is ME.

The need for structure and order in life is demonstrated by the rising numbers of gang members in our communities. Young people join gangs because there is a recognizable code of behavior expected of them in that setting.
Too bad they can't get that structure and security at home or in school.

The VT killer just seemed angry and frustrated so you can add those two descriptions.

PM...you're right....Dad can't discipline Johnny at home, nor the teachers in his school (if he's even in school) anymore...but Johnny goes against his gang leader..he just may end up dead....go figure.

We're a decadent society with misplaced values.

And misplaced topics. Why the fuck is this in a thread about rootkits?

dont blame me ,


Blame

(2006-06-15 19:39:53) OldCodger (Active)
(2006-04-04 23:42:27) CherishTruth (Active)
(2005-11-04 08:51:49) grumpygeezer (Active)
(2004-11-14 05:35:17) Diogenes2 (Active)
(2004-11-13 20:42:09) DemandTheTruth (Active)
(2004-11-13 20:38:43) LetLightShine (Active)
(2004-11-12 05:24:42) DemandRelevance (Active)

Not blaming you, Leflaw... it's just sad that people decide to make a thread their own personal battlefield for their opinions on guns and video games. I noticed the lack of the word "parenting" and very little "personal responsibility", but now *I* am guilty of continuing this ridiculous hijack.

It might have occurred partly because at the time there wasn't an open thread available for venting.

And perhaps partly because it seemed at the time that the discussion about rootkits had peaked, anyway.
(Not that it still can't be discussed, though.)

Going back to DemandRelevance, the archive record shows one his/her pet peeves was too many articles about non-music issues.
That's in contrast to the current situation, though.

[signing off for good; over and out]

Yeah, this is off topic, but look how many posts are on this thread compared to the others.. reminds me of the old exciting days on dmusic where passionate, intelligent discussion was displayed on the front page.. it is what brought me (and probably others) to this dmusic community.. that and the music. Now back to rootkits..

on DVD rootkits,
yes, Ive reformated Toad's PC 4 times now cuz the dumbass keeps installing that program that comes with the DVD for watching it! On older DVDs the DVD veiwing program is optional to install, installing it means no copying to your hard drive and there is no un-installing the DRM (that I know of)

on Cho (cuz I can't find a thread for it yet)
the last time I looked at the paperwork for firearm purchase there were two questions that Cho mustve lied on. One asking about medication for psychological problems, the other asking about being committed to a mental hospitol. There is NO check for these thur the FBI criminal check. There is also no check nor question about mental retardation.
At some point a doctor should be able to add the mentally handicapped to the FBI's check.
School Shooters (or almost ANY public shooter) are only stopped by one of a few ways. 1) they run outta ammo 2) they shoot themselves 3) they get shot by the first legally owned firearm
I send my children to school everyday and trust their teachers with their minds, social skills, physical health, mental health, and even religous differances.
I trust those teachers to carry a conceiled firearm