Just wanted to give everyone a status update on what we "know so far" as to where things are heading and at what speed they appear to be getting there.

So far, things have been getting done faster than I or anyone else had expected them to. Tracy has been an excellent consultant on stratagy and coordination. Shmoo is continuing to give me his insights on the pre-existing social environment of BRIAA to minimize my risk of "bumping heads" too much with anyone, inadvertently. Fu-dog has been exceptionally timely when i've needed him to make any adaptations or implimentations. ShadowMom (who mostly deals with DMusic) has agree to help out with the new forums (when they go up) as well as correct all of my horrible spelling at the new BRIAA website :-D

My friend Beta2k has submitted an employment application with Tracy to become a coder to assist me with alot of the backend stuff that I'm not able to wrap my brain around. He's a good coder, i've known him for quite some time.

My worst fears have been realized when I took a look at the new forums under PHPbb and noticed that some spammers managed to slip through the cracks. I refuse to jump through any hoops trying to eliminate that -- so i'll be arranging for the forums to be hosted "off-site" running Synchronet BBS -- which is immune to such attacks. I already know Synchronet can cut that off at the pass -- so i'm not going to spend time monkey-assing around with trying to get PHPbb to cooperate when I'm already fluent with a software that I know doesn't have these issues.

Until my staff of coders (and it will take awhile before I have anything that I can even refer to as a "staff" lol) can make some sort of application to share the userbase between Synchronet and Joomla then the forums will until that time have a different login. Our appologies in advance for this.

Now if your going to have a BBQ -- you'd best make sure your back yard is ready for guests. There are going to be alot of subsections and projects that are not exclusively about "the fight against the evil and greedy RIAA" but they are parrellels.

The first section i'm laying the foundation for is called Operation Freedom. It's purpose being to bridge the generation gap (that annoying little bugger has been a pain in everyones ass for millenia) to bring everyone of all ages together (well, 13 and older more or less -- you don't want to subject 6 year old Jane to some of the more colorful language thats scattered about here and there) in the fight for freedom against those who might attempt to steal those freedoms. Everything from Educational Reform, Blackbox Voting, the Environment, Freedom of Information and alot more!

Please however note that I am just implimenting v1.0 of Operation Freedom. From there -- one of the new teenage entities within the BBS Scene -- "Noneone" will be "taking it over". I'm only one person and I can't do everything -- so I plan to delegate power, not hoard it. Just as ShadowMom will be running the community aspects and Shmoo will be the main man in charge for the articles -- Noeone will be in charge of the campaigns that require a more "rebellious" and "youthful" approach.

It's going to be a slow migration from the old site to the new site however it will get done sooner rather than later. Both sites will be equally available at all times until everything can be 100% converted to the new one. So please always feel free to check the new one and see whats been done so far. There will always be a link off the main page of the current site to the new one.

Since I've been herding cats at DMusic for a while now (and what an education it's been for me), I'm ready to give it a shot. I'm very impressed with the work done so far, but I have an awful lot to learn, so bear with me... I'll do my best. And I think you will all like the way this is being organized. 2007 looks like a busy year here!

New Year Greeting (Recording Industry vs. The People)

The New Year has begun, and unfortunately the RIAA's war against ordinary citizens is still here. No amnesties, no pardons, no compromise, no compassion, no reason.

While I fully understand that there needs to be some litigation between the content community and the technology community, in order to define the perimeters of copyright law in the digital age, I really wish the RIAA would pick on defendants its own size, and stop making war on the defenseless.

And if that doesn't happen, I hope the federal judiciary will wake up to the massive fraud that is being perpetrated on the courts, and shut it down.

To all those who are fighting the RIAA I wish you good luck.

To all those helping them, my heartfelt thanks.

And to the RIAA and its lawyers, my wish is: I hope that you can find honest work in the New Year.

-R.B.

* Document published online at Internet Law & Regulation

FROM THE INBOX:

http://groovegate.com wishes us to add a link to them from Boycott Riaa. They are a website out of Sweden (?) and appear to sell independent music downloads.

I already asked 'em a few things and in reply so far:

-----
"Hi Schmoo,

Nopes we don't have any DRM encryption on the files we sell. Groovegate
have
written agreements with all labels and artists we have made a deal with
and
we report sales to the copyright association in Sweden, STIM/NCB.

You want to know something more just ask.

Best,

Patrik"
---------------

Your call on linking them or not Twarrior.

Hi Scmoo,

Indeed we do have both a faq and a tos

http://www.groovegate.com/faq.php

http://www.groovegate.com/terms.php

As far as treating artist fair, well I'm an old artist myself and I
fully
support giving back so that they can grow and make even better music.

I have also been running the online magazine Pitch Adjust since 1999
although it's a bit on hold right now waiting for Groovegate to happen
and I
have been active in the fight against those Russian sites in the past
as
well as I don't like that they download from p2p networks and then try
to
act legal and try to make money on their illegal business models.

Anyway thanks for hocking us up.

Best,

Patrik

From the link provided by Shmoo:
"A new discovery dispute has erupted in UMG v. Lindor: the RIAA is refusing to comply with Magistrate Judge Levy's order directing them to turn over "all relevant documents" concerning their wholesale prices for downloads unless Ms. Lindor's attorneys agree to keep the prices confidential."

Why am I not surprised at this development?

They can't refuse a judges order. It's contempt of court! LMAO!

To me this also reads as: "we'll admit to murder as long as the evidence doesn't go on the record so we can avoid conviction" lol!

Anyways -- as wonderfuly humerous as all of this is -- this is SUPPOSED to be a status update section for BRIAA itself. I'm not sure why Shmoo got so rantingly off topic. lol ... well actually I do know why. Cuz he's shmoo and cuz he can. lol

That being besides the point -- things happen quicker if I only had some coders helping me that had time to help! Oh say for example, my friend Beta2k (aka my friend Jason ) *glances at Tracy with a hinting look*

The RIAA's legal maneuvers are off topic?? We're supposed to talk about educational reform, black box voting and the environment instead?

I guess I'll go talk about the RIAA somewhere else.

A few years ago, I attended a Federal Court Hearing with one of Leflaw's staff lawyers in LA. The question of Peggy Lee's estate (and other legacy artists, including an effort to include certification for Leflaw's client) was this: did the old Bing Crosby contracts have a favored nations clause that guaranteed the price of physical goods. How and why did a lawyer hack at a record label think that releasing a new format (compact disc) would rollover permission from the phonodisc contracts.

Needless to say, old contracts on paper in rusty filing cabinets are hard to produce from the 1930's ---- And yet the designated successors, such as Vivendi and Sony, insist they have legitimate eternal rights with contracts and copyright papers to prove it!

When Leflaw's lawyer stood up, the RIAA lawyers screamed bloody murder and said that comparing royalty rates or entering contracts as evidence would be revealing corporate secerts! And the judge agreed!

What we have here, is that certain moneyed bigshots claim exemptions from the law. And that only their RIAA-certified music is legitimate.

You should see the light, George Z, and let's take our discussions somewhere else, where TWarrior isn't.

Extraordinary meeting on the Webcaster Treaty in the Patent Office yesterday. Our friends were there by phone conference, George---you recall Robin Gross and Gwen Hinze from the copyright hearings at UCLA---well---Neil Turkewitz of RIAA and Fritz Attaway of MPAA showed up and caused pandemonium when they threw their full support behind the proposal which will be rammed through in Geneva Jume 17.

This boycott site is damaging our movement. Shut it down, please! Give it back to Thumbtack. The idea for increased funding for code writers is a joke.

George Z: "I guess I'll go talk about the RIAA somewhere else."

tomsong: ". . . let's take our discussions somewhere else."

Okay, how about George's website?
Can arrangements be made for readers to make comments underneath articles & editorials that he posts there?

George Z: "I guess I'll go talk about the RIAA somewhere else."

Oh come on you know what i mean. *rolls eyes*

Off topic for this THREAD not for the site in its entirety. My post was about whats being implimented for the website. Am I asking to much to want peoples feedback on what i wrote about it?

If you asked me a question, and I dismissed it and abruptly changed the topic -- i'm sure you'd think me to be rude. If you asked "So Twarrior, whats gonna happen next with the new site?" and I replied with "WELL ANYWAYS -- so what new screwup did the RIAA do now?" that would be an obvious evasive dismissal of your inquiry.

So I will ask you -- is it too much to ask that when I post about whats upcomming for the new site that i get peoples feedback on what I posted about? I mean -- this site is for everyone. I think it only fair that if you think i'm implimenting something wrong or it could be different -- that you let me know. That if you'd like to see some feature or another that maybe i had not concidered or thought of -- you speak up and tell me what it is you'd like.

I'm sorry if you perceive me to be an ass for wanting feedback about what i posted as opposed to not only being dismissed but scolded for trying to get things back on the original thread.

One problem this site has is a lack of coordination and i'm trying to get things coordinated. So please, i'd appreciate not being attacked and not having my efforts underminded. Unless of course you'd like to see the RIAA win.

Oh and Shmoo -- I know you told me about how some people here don't nessesarily trust me yet because i'm "the new guy" and I do expect to have to earn that trust -- and thats the way it should be. However at the same time -- I don't think my reply to this is in any way, shape or form out of line.

"You should see the light, George Z, and let's take our discussions somewhere else, where TWarrior isn't."

Sounds more like your here to hear yourself talk than to coordinate against the RIAA. The RIAA has made the mistake of allowing ego to sabotage their goals. I'd not like to see Boycott RIAA make the same mistakes.

I think the development of the site (which is what this article is about) is every bit as important as the cause it's trying to accomplish.

If I may be so bold as to say -- I think people such as yourself who are only here to piss and moan if someone says boo to them or if they don't agree with your opinions should "go to another site".

I'm going to be trying to do my best to make this site a lucrative resource where people can come and exchange knowledge and ideas, plan stratagies and work together.

Shmoo has already warned me that you might chime in with something to this effect. He has also told me "try to cut him some slack if he does -- he's a very powerful ally and very knowledgable" and I don't doubt Shmoo's wisdom on this.

However I replied to Shmoo with (and have told ShadowMom something similar) -- "I will not attack anyone but if attacked I will defend both myself and the goals of this site. If someone is only here to raise hell and be counter productive -- then it doesn't mater how powerful they are or how much they know about the subject. If they choose to be counter productive and undermine the overall goals with vendetas of ego, then thats not good for the cause".

Shmoo replied something to the effect of "Just don't mistake some of our long term folks as trolls. They just sometimes play a rough game of hardball but they're good people".

Well, if you want to abandon ship -- then how seriously can I, or anyone else take you?

If me wanting to get back on the topic of this article (what YOU GUYS WANT out of THIS WEBSITE) is enough to make you wish to leave -- then I can't see what you could possibly provide for the cause.

I hold nothing against anyone here and I am speaking from a purely objective stand point.

The enemy is the RIAA -- not eachother. Some folks here seem to have a bad habbit of forgetting that.

I'm here to work with you all on stratagies. I need to know what you want out of this website. I need to know what features are important to you. I don't want to dictate to you or rule over you -- I am YOUR SERVANT and I need to know what everyone wants and get everyone on the same page.

So I ask you all -- are your goals and mine the same? Yes or no.

FYI -- one person you all seem to respect grealty (and as do I as well) is ShadowMom. She has been sent this link. She will read whats here. Rest assured i'll be shocked if she DOESNT respond. Whatever she says -- i'd suggest heeding her words, whatever they end up being. She's a VERY wise lady.

Another thing -- you guys can throw your worst at me, I can handle it without a problem. I don't take any of it personally. I know your all good people. I've been told this by very reliable sources. However -- we won't always agree with eachother. I will always be blunt, straight to the point, will stick to the facts and will never mince words or debate semantics.

I will however in part paraphrase something leflaw has told me -- "don't come to me for a pat on the back"

I will never be disrespectful or attack anyone -- but if your here to be always agreed with and to be told how wonderful you are -- you've got the wrong man and the wrong site.

We won't always all agree with eachother. I can agree to disagree. Can you? Fighting eachother is counter productive. We're all on the same team. I think my statements are logical. If you don't think they are -- please explain how they are not. Thanks!

Oh, you know I read it... and this time, I think you all should stop and think. What's wrong with discussing other issues in proper forum threads? Education and legislation, voting, etc. all have a bearing on this issue as far as I can see. Now instead of countless threads, if you don't want to discuss legislation, don't go to that thread. And yes, Shmoo was off-topic, and that's Shmoo, but we all get off-topic sometimes because of the need to express ourselves. Leeway both ways.

George and Tom, you both have different beliefs about how to fight this battle. We are never going to agree on everything. But that's what discussion is for. I would like to see a little less of the personal conversation in these threads and a little more concrete content, especially when asked for specific feedback.

If you don't like something, now is the time to say so, but without the personal comments. Thumbtack is not likely to come back. Move on. You will not like everything that happens here... no one will. There will be times when your temper flares. Walk away, cool off, and come back with a proper response. Giving up is a victory for them.

Btw, none of you are shy, and you are all intelligent, coherent, caring people. And we've been together a long time. The fight's not over. Unless you quit.

ShadowMom -- thanks. Much better said than I ever could have said it. And with less words, too!

You right. We're not all always going to agree which is why i'm dividing the new site into so many different sub-groups. This way -- if you like some aspects but not others -- you have a choice. Your not forced to just "deal with it".

This is why i NEED to know what everyone wants in the new site. Thats why this thread was posted in the first place. I can't do it alone.

"If me wanting to get back on the topic of this article . . . is enough to make you wish to leave --"

There's more involved than the off-topic issue.

"If you don't like something, now is the time to say so, but without the personal comments."

In the present circumstances, that may be difficult.
I also doubt there will be many responders.

"If you're here to be always agreed with and to be told how wonderful you are -- you've got the wrong man and the wrong site."

Potential dissenters don't need "to be always agreed with".
What they're dissatisfied about is . . . uh-oh, can't discuss that (it might break the "personal" rule).

Re: "... come back with a proper response."

Who is in charge of deciding what responses are "proper"?
Leflaw prefers people speaking their minds in open forums.

[relishing my role of self-appointed devil's advocate about now]

"Leflaw prefers people speaking their minds in open forums."

Caveat: I realize this particular thread is not an open one. Perhaps that's one way how you envision "proper" -- to the extent of whether a comment pertains to the topic of a particular thread?
(Just a wild guess.)

In short: this site has lacked any sort of organization or format and thats one of the things i've been asked to impliment -- and i dont think its too much to expect people to follow it -- and i dont think its too much to expect to ask people to help CREATE it either.

What am i supposed to do? Read your minds? lol ... i simply asked that people feed back about what i posted and i get hosed. Thought i am not peraonally offended -- it is counter productive to what this site is trying to accomplish.

And seriously -- statements like "This boycott site is damaging our movement. Shut it down, please!" is like a 12 year old temper tantrum and does not sound like a very credible statement -- nor does it sound like a person that is "for a cause" trying to "fix the problem". It sounds like someone pissed off that i didn't kiss his ass. lol

He's welcome to try some of the more radical sites if he wishes to. I'm sure he'll find those even LESS to his liking. lol

Or perhaps his demenor might be more suited for the nearest grade school play ground

Hey Raid -- maybe you can hook tommy up with some 0-day? lmao! [/inside bbs scene joke]

A little sarcasm goes a long, long way.

Especially when used humerously. I certianly agree. It's a great way to make a point and it avoids getting frustrated with people. A sense of humor is key. Especially in a political environment

Anyways -- as per THIS ARTICLE -- take a look at the new site.

How do you like it?
What do you like about it?
Anything you dislike about it?
Anything need to be done differently?
Anything you feel needs to be added?

This inquiring mind needs to know! I need this site designed in "everyones image" not just mine -- so I require your guidance. So guide me!

I JUST got some breaking news to tell you.

The HD-DVD and the Blu-ray disk copy protection scheme has just been hacked.

You can read more at News.YAHOO.com, and search for: AACS.

There are rumors that the ROM Mark and the BD+ system has also ben bypassed as well, but that's uncertain as of yet.

The MPAA is not too happy about this news, and some say that the movie studios may say: "O.K. We give up. I think that DRM is not working, and we will just have to figure out another way. Maybe that people are breaking the DRM scheme, because the rules are too strict."

Well, Disk based media is going anyways, thanks to online download media.

... kyo pops in, sees nothing much has changed ... *exits stage right*

Pertainind to what JDonahue wrote, comes this quote that I found:

"Hardly anyone seems to be asking the relevant question — who needed or even wanted HD movies? Even with a high-definition widescreen TV, I'm struggling (admittedly with 55-year old eyes) to see MUCH of an improvement in quality. Is this marginal improvement in quality worth paying heaps for in terms of extra cost of new player (even with the format wars over), extra cost of replacing existing DVD discs, etc.? Excuse me, but I don't think so." -- Emru Townsend

Personally, I'm GLAD that the HD-DVD & Blue-ray disk protection scheme got hacked!
Power to the people (hacker people, especially).

pertainind = pertaining

BTW, I'd be just happy keeping only this boycott-riaa website (without any additional site) IF ONLY we could get editing privilege for what we submit . . . at least for the first five minutes or so after clicking "post".

(sigh; I know, that's likely too much to hope for)

Re: "... nothing much has changed ..."

Sometimes I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, kyodylee.
And someone once wrote that the more things change, the more they revert back to the way things were.

Sorry to have gone off topic. You had me lock this article at the top of the page and I thus assumed it was ok to treat it as an open thread in addition to what you had intended it for. (Something we had traditionally done with the top-of-the page items.)

All the kinks will work themselves out eventually. Continue to be patient with folks and persistant with our goals. (Which, last I checked, are to spread the word and bitch about the evils of the RIAA.)

Wish I had time to do/say more tonight, but it's gonna be a couple more days before I can get back online for any length of time. (It really SUCKS being poor and having to work more than full time for $7/hr some 50 miles from home just to scrape by.)

"Sorry to have gone off topic. You had me lock this article at the top of the page and I thus assumed it was ok to treat it as an open thread in addition to what you had intended it for. (Something we had traditionally done with the top-of-the page items.)"

It wasn't so much that as what i was originally asking was and still is being ignored when i desperately need to know what you all would like to see here. Then I get attacked for making another attempt to get this information.

So let me state for the record -- alright. Have it your way. BUT -- after all is said and done with the new site -- if theres something you wanted that didnt make it in -- or something you might not like about the new site -- don't jump on me demanding i make "timely corrections" as if i'm getting paid millions of bucks for all this.

Theres my fair middle ground.

As for:

"The HD-DVD and the Blu-ray disk copy protection scheme has just been hacked.

You can read more at News.YAHOO.com, and search for: AACS.

There are rumors that the ROM Mark and the BD+ system has also ben bypassed as well, but that's uncertain as of yet.

The MPAA is not too happy about this news, and some say that the movie studios may say: "O.K. We give up. I think that DRM is not working, and we will just have to figure out another way. Maybe that people are breaking the DRM scheme, because the rules are too strict."

Well, Disk based media is going anyways, thanks to online download media."

I've only two words to describe my opinions on this: FUCK YEAH!

"It wasn't so much that as what i was originally asking was and still is being ignored when i desperately need to know what you all would like to see here."

Was there ever a poll taken to check how many of us would be content to have just this present boycott-riaa site (but with temporary edit power over our individual posts)?
Depending upon how many others beside myself feel that way, it could explain some of what appears to be apathy about a new site. In other words, some (or even many) of us may be content just to have this site, with one or two modifications.
(I'm betting odds that if a poll hasn't been taken, it won't be taken now.)

"If you don't like something, now is the time to say so, but without the personal comments."

Okay. Depending upon how the majority of participants feel, an additonal site (bsides the present boycott-riaa site and DMusic) could increase participation ... OR, it could diffuse our focus.

additonal = additional

(p.s. a lack of edit power over our individual posts was definitely a thorn for at least some of us, as I recall over the years, but that didn't necessarily mean we were in favor of adding an extra site)

Also, regarding "thumbtack":

For the record, I've enjoyed Bill Evans' input in the past, and I wish he would visit us more often.
To me, it appeared (at the time, some years ago) that he was reluctant to relinquish the reins, so to speak, but practicality probably prompted him to do so.

"Was there ever a poll taken to check how many of us would be content to have just this present boycott-riaa site (but with temporary edit power over our individual posts)?"

My vote for this site with temp. edit feature.

No offense to anyone, but I've simply never understood why a second site was necessary.

In deference to ShadowMom, I will avoid engaging in any colloquoy save to say that I count Tom, George, and Kyo as friends of mine and must agree, respectfully.

God must like chaos, see the Second Primciple of Thermodynamics.
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/ENTRTHER.html

~Code

But, as a last thought, newcomers should understand that Tom and GeorgeZ have provided some of the most cogent and relevant discusssions, postings, and articles which ever appeared on this site. Tom and George have "walked the walk and talked the talk" and been making music when many posters were learning the ABCs, so, before excoriating them for making critical remarks, please note that their "street cred" was established long ago, and they have been to hearings and meetings on the issues discussed here.

The ideas, the sense of rebellion against the attempt to control digitally formatted music, the analysis of copyright law, these things have traiditionally been the real grist for the mill of boycott.

This site reflected a populist movement, and the energy and drive of the site was fueled by the passion of the people to oppose a wrongheaded legal attack on the public by the RIAA.

I believe one can get too caught up in the minutia of the technology, and lose what the real purpose of the site is.

Someone long ago, with respect to websites said, "content is king".

Personally, I've used Joomla and Mambo, but keep going back to PhP Nuke as an information portal for sites other than mere blogs.

I care more about what is being said that whether one uses one CMS platform or the other. If you go see your favorite singer, you go to see them, not really the stage they perform on.

This was far too long and rambling for my original intention, but, I did want to say that Tom and George have earned the right to come here and make a critical remark.

And, yes, if a site changes too much for people, they are free to go elsewhere, but, to my mind, Boycott RIAA would certainly lose some of the best and brightest thoughts on copyright issues and music were it not for George Z and Tomsong.

~Code

The reason this site works so well is that it is so totally uncomplicated....

I believe the reasons that people started thinking something "better" was required because of little comments such as "would be nice to have an editing feature" would be nice to have a spell check, would be nice to have...well, pick whatever's not here...

I don't think a new "site" is worth losing some of the most valuable people here like George, Tom and Code

So my vote would be keep this site..but then again, I'm not paying for it...so perhaps that has to enter the picture as well....

50 inches of snow in 3 weeks. more on the way. no mr. potato head. hmmm, internet is still up. maybe I'll surf a while instead of shoveling snow.

wow, posts from tomsong, gdZiemann, Kyodylee and Codewarrior all in the same thread. impressive.

I wish I were as well informed as tomsong and george.

read the last paragraph of Codewarrior's post. He is absolutely right. I wish I had his insight and fortitude

Twarrior. This guy is trying really hard and he's done a lot of good. I hope he doesn't get burned out and give up. I don't know if he's figured out that you can't give people what they want if they don't know what they want.

everyone understands what it is to be frustrated. no one really understands how to fashion that frustration into a tool which can be used to change things. That's why special interest groups like the riaa are so strong. They are focused and organized and following a set of objectives. the people they are hosing are just responding to their actions.

don't give up folks. the numbers prove we're on the right track, it's just hard to narrow the focus to a single rut.

ok I'm done thinking out loud. back to the snow.

"I don't know if he's figured out that you can't give people what they want if they don't know what they want."

Au contraire, several of his posts above have addressed that aspect.


Significantly, it's evident there are many of us who do know that we'd be satisfied with a minor modification to the present site, without launching out in another direction (additional site). With this site, and with DMusic, we can stay focused. No need to diffuse our thrust.

Code, Tom and I all respect each other. We also piss each other off from time to time because we [i]really[/b] have strong opinions which sometimes are in opposition to each other.

What I've always liked about this site is the element of debate, which is interrupted every fall by a troll. This makes us all complain that we wish we could have that one feature, just before we all step back until the troll goes away. In the meantime, site moderation has been transferred and we seem to take a giant step back.

This is because trying to moderate this site will make you bat-shiat crazy after a year.

If another site is created, it should serve a different focus. This one links from Wikipedia.

I get 5 percent of my web traffic to a page that was first posted in December, 2002. It is outdated and although correct, it showed how little I understood about what was going on. Plus, I was rebuilding the entire directory and it was in an inconvenient place. I wanted to get rid of it, so I did.

I put it back -- in the same inconvenient location -- a couple of months later, and it immediately popped right back into being the most viewed page (after the main page).

But if you look up "RIAA statistics" on Google, it turns out they think it's more relevant than the RIAA.

Be careful about breaking all those links.

There will not be two sites, only one. Just as DMusic has undergone a facelift, so will Boycott-RIAA. But it will be a while before it's all set. What Twarrior is asking for is your input now... before it's set about what you would like to see there. That's all. And I think I have impressed upon him in the nicest possible way how highly I regard each and every one of you. I don't think any of you doubt that. BUT, the site will change, and just like DMusic, if we don't know what you want beforehand, it can be a nightmare to implement later on.

I know I'm off-topic here, but I've been deleted before. It doesn't hurt as much as you might think. George, Tom, and Code-- you all have valuable insight, and so much knowledge, I never can thank you for all I've learned from you. But things change. And if I can adapt, although it has been a little difficult at times, so can you. I respect you all too much to have you think I don't understand what you're saying. I'm only asking that you give it time, a chance. And have a little faith.

"There will not be two sites, only one."

I must presume that means when BoycottRIAA is operational, this present Boycott-RIAA site will not be used?
Apparently, then, this present Boycott site is planned to undergo considerable change, if not replacement.

I'm strongly with pmmusic who wants to keep this site, but with temporary edit feature.

You want to know what we want.
Well, we basically want the current Boycott site, with minor modifications. If changing its designation from Boycott-RIAA to BoycottRIAA, however, keep in mind what George Z. wrote about doing that sort of thing. (I'm referring to his post cautioning against breaking existing links that are out there.)

I want to appologize to all for the way I
ignored the threads here at the old site when the new site was launched. I made the mistake of thinking the "new site" was to be the place where the Boycott Riaa movement was to continue into the future. It was a tactical (strategic?) blunder in hindsight.

What I SHOULD have done is what I think Twarrior, leflaw and fuDog are now slowly but surely working on. As I see it, they will merely be adding the features and tools that are wanted to THIS (the old site) once they get things get knocked into shape. If I understand correctly, we will be KEEPING the familiar structure of simple "article & comment" thing as the primary focus of our front page.

All the "Web 2.0" toys (which I admit distracted me for so many months) will merely end up being side-bar links and add-ons for those who wish to take advantage of them. Both url links will end up pointing HERE when things are said and done.

Think of the "new site" as just the test-bed for the face-lift to be given here.

(At least, that's the way I understand what's going on.)

=========

It's nice to see so many of our dear friends here. Almost feels like old times.



==========

"This is because trying to moderate this site will make you bat-shiat crazy after a year."

Beware Twarrior, George is usually right about things. I know THIS comment to be %100 fact. lol. (I'm sure tomsong, CodeWarrior, thumbtack will all also agree.)

"Personally, I've used Joomla and Mambo, but keep going back to PhP Nuke as an information portal for sites other than mere blogs.

I care more about what is being said that whether one uses one CMS platform or the other. If you go see your favorite singer, you go to see them, not really the stage they perform on."

I agree. My concern, as i've said, for this article is what do you want to see? What do you want to be there? I'm not asking about software and programs. I'm asking about features, strategy and content. How do you guys want things to be run? I've got the "tech stuff" covered already. The only input i need on that is from my fellow techs and that i've got already. I need to hear from our users how they want the site to be laid out -- how do THEY THINK things should be run. What do YOU GUYS want to see? Content, folks. Content. Not software

"Was there ever a poll taken to check how many of us would be content to have just this present boycott-riaa site (but with temporary edit power over our individual posts)?
Depending upon how many others beside myself feel that way, it could explain some of what appears to be apathy about a new site. In other words, some (or even many) of us may be content just to have this site, with one or two modifications.
(I'm betting odds that if a poll hasn't been taken, it won't be taken now.)"

The software currently runing is very limited hence the switch over to Joomla. I'm asking more about content and strategy than anything. Yes, polls are good. The new site supports polls. Any specific polls you want me to put up? You wish is my command!

"No offense to anyone, but I've simply never understood why a second site was necessary."

It's not. Thats the whole point. BRIAA is growing and the current platform doesn't allow for it so the second site is simply the new platform. Once completed, both http://boycott-riaa.com and http://boycottriaa.com will point to the exact same place.

"In deference to ShadowMom, I will avoid engaging in any colloquoy save to say that I count Tom, George, and Kyo as friends of mine and must agree, respectfully."

My concern was how harshly I was attacked. It's counter productive and it scares people away and allows people to think this is yet another flame forum and not a serious site trying to do some good. To say such things against BRIAA due to some pre-judgemental attitude against me personally is a 2nd Grade pissing contest and does not prove to people we are serious. It makes people think we're a bunch of articulate pre-teens venting our testosterone.

I've been told the two people in question have superior knowledge to me about all of these issue and i'd love their help. But i'm not going to have my authority disrecpected, not going to have any whips cracked at me (i'm not making piles of cash doing this, folks), am not going to kiss anyones ass and will not have this site turn into a flame festaval. So if thats all they can provide then it's a damn crying shame that they won't allow me to make use of their vast knowledge and experience -- but i'm not going to let that stop me from trying to achevie the goals of BRIAA. I'm making my choices and they're making theirs. Best of luck to all of us.

"I know I'm off-topic here, but I've been deleted before. It doesn't hurt as much as you might think. George, Tom, and Code-- you all have valuable insight, and so much knowledge, I never can thank you for all I've learned from you. But things change. And if I can adapt, although it has been a little difficult at times, so can you. I respect you all too much to have you think I don't understand what you're saying. I'm only asking that you give it time, a chance. And have a little faith."

Thanks. Having walked into a mess that most people just don't know how messy things are behind the scenes here -- it takes not only faith but to be a persistent and hard working son of a bitch like me. lol ... nothing will stop me from trying to acheive the goals of BRIAA. All help and insights i can get from ANYONE is a most valuable resource.

"There will not be two sites, only one."

"I must presume that means when BoycottRIAA is operational, this present Boycott-RIAA site will not be used?
Apparently, then, this present Boycott site is planned to undergo considerable change, if not replacement.

I'm strongly with pmmusic who wants to keep this site, but with temporary edit feature."

What do you mean by "temporary edit feature"? This migration is going to be a very slow proccess. This is also why both sites are available. People need time to adapt to these slow changes -- as well as assist me in making them by telling me things like this such as you've decided to do. I wouldn't just suddenly throw anyone into a new environment without warning. I'd prefer that you all help me create this new environment. If any request is within the abilities of our coders, Joolma itself and myself and the other staff -- i'm happy to grant it.

"You want to know what we want.
Well, we basically want the current Boycott site, with minor modifications. If changing its designation from Boycott-RIAA to BoycottRIAA, however, keep in mind what George Z. wrote about doing that sort of thing. (I'm referring to his post cautioning against breaking existing links that are out there.)"

The old site is too limited so what your asking isn't possible. I do however have a happy middle ground for you.

The current sub directory structure of the current site does NOT conflict with the new setup. So even though the old site will be abandoned as far as "Continued Use" I will personally MAKE SURE all links that exist now will always and forever still exist. There will just be a notice appended in that explains the situation and links to the new site.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention though -- because your 100% correct. I'll make sure that as the new site is fixed -- old links don't get broken in this proccess.

"temporary edit feature"?

It would be nice if we could see how the post looks on site and still have the opportunity to correct spelling or gramerical errors or add emoticons or surrender, change religious affilliations or political parties, little stuff that might cause offence, or be misinterpreted by the more sensitive of our brothers(and sisters) in arms

BTW ....What is with the guy in the blindfold???(accident victum? mummy wannabe?)
What's wrong with the "Free the Music" poster?
Just a little less dark.

Thanks for being here all of you..

end rant.

Re: What do you mean by "temporary edit feature"?

Having the temporary ability to edit/correct one's post (say, perhaps for the first 10 minutes after posting).

"BTW ....What is with the guy in the blindfold???"

Presumably, a take-off on the (conceptual) blind Ms. Justice; pershaps a blind Mr. Justice?

"Free the Music" poster appears to be a good idea.

what he said!!

Thanks grumpygeezer

"BTW ....What is with the guy in the blindfold???"

That's part of the pic/banner image our friend MixerJaex came up with.

I always took it to symbolically mean that "our side" is suppressed and bound. (a common theme around here.)

But everyone else here seems to HATE MixerJaex's artwork/representation.

My guess is Twarrior picked a FOCAL point of that graphic (the guy's head wrapped up like a mummy) and "ran" with it ...perhaps thinking it was an improvement on the old image that greeted everyone at the top of the "new site" ...in an attempt to IMPROVE without offending the "regulars"

(Folks, PLEASE REMEMBER, Twarrior is NEW to our site. He probably doesn't know who the hell MixerJaex is from adam.)

The whole purpose of this article is a FACT FINDING MISSION from our new servant so he can LEARN what we all indivdually want (...and then, he gets to seek the mythical "middle-ground".)

\\\\\\\\\\

I'm gonna say it again. GEORGE is almost always RIGHT.

Try to admin/moderate/run (whatever you call-it) this place...

You's gonna end up boingy bonkers!

ALL I gotta do anymore, for now, is post articles I find that we would likely want to read, put them in a logical order/place here at the site,

THEN (the best part) I get to bitch and express MY opinion one way or another.

=======

Hell, I'm very HAPPY about my own PERSONAL situation in the ch-ch-changes. (I'm getting to step down and become a HUMAN again.)

But think about it folks. (Especially those of you who have DONE it here before)

Think about how YOU would like to be fairly treated when given the job of hearding a flock of cats.

Tomsong, I am looking at YOU. (I do know and "grok" that you operate on quantum levels and etc.)

You TOO CodeWarrior.

---------

Damnit, even if over time it turns out the "new guy" ain't all that "likable" to all us "OLD SCHOOL" Boycott Riaa regulars...

SO FUCKING WHAT???

-------------

Time marches ON.

We were attempting to impart the wisdom and teach it to the "kiddies" anyways (were we not?)

[[[[[[[[[[

Get in here and be PROACTIVE about the core agenda/issues instead of simply beating up/destroying (instead of sagaciously influencing) any new directions that are trying to occur.

----------

Damnit, ALL of you...

PASS the torch. Be supportive!

----------

(lol. And if it doesn't work and RaidHHI "types" or corporate "make-money types" ever take over the "NAME" of the Boycott Riaa effort

,,,we can ALWAYS come back and start over with a new name if need be.)

Stop fighting each other and fight the ENEMY once in a while!!!

I have a very sneaky suspicion that our NON commenting thousands (millions) of supposed "lurkers" enjoy us only for our "Jerry Springer Effect"

------------

But, you know what?

That's OK in my book if so.
-------------------


My guestimate is that MOST of our message has ALWAYS been picked up by "osmossis" rathter than any direct diatribe.

immesurably good pleasure still feels good

(because it is off the scale)


OK,

I'm done now.

No problem with the new guy, just responding to the request for input...
I am almost totally computer illiterate and I love that there is someone here willing to take on the truely daunting task of making order out of the chaos that we have all enjo- er- endured (darn no edit anyway )for so long.
This site is just about the only source of information on the subject closest to the hearts of so many of us who wonder where the music went. Much of the information shared here is unknown or unreported anywhere else.

Again, Thanks to all of you for being here.

Twarrior, you asked what we want of the new site. Well, I can only speak for myself, but here it is:

1) CodeWarrior said: "This site reflected a populist movement, and the energy and drive of the site was fueled by the passion of the people to oppose a wrongheaded legal attack on the public by the RIAA."

and 2) gdZiemann said: "What I've always liked about this site is the element of debate, which is interrupted every fall by a troll. This makes us all complain that we wish we could have that one feature, just before we all step back until the troll goes away."

Well, that's what I want. I want the drive, the energy, the PASSION, that Code spoke about. I want the debate (even the kind that pisses each other off), and yes, even the trolls that George talked of.

I could care less what the site looks like, but I do care what the site FEELS like.

So there you have it, that's what I want. Oh, yes, and maybe also that damn edit feature that everyone keeps talking about.

out.

Also, Shmoo said: "I have a very sneaky suspicion that our NON commenting thousands (millions) of supposed "lurkers" enjoy us only for our "Jerry Springer Effect"."

Or nowadays it could be called the Rosie O'Donnell effect. Baba Wawa ain't stupid ya know, she knows drama means ratings.

ODDS & ENDS

Posted by Mike (Shmoo) on December 30, 2006 at 4:48 PM

Please stay on-topic when replying to the other articles. Use THIS article for "odds & ends" or any off-topic chatter. -- Shmoo

Hey, TWarrior, have you figured out a way to keep this, (or a similarly purposed article) at the top of Boycott Riaa without affecting DMusic's threads? --Shmoo



Hey, Shmoo, it hasn't worked! That open thread (above) died a slow death, having gradually been pushed downward into the foreground as newer-dated articles were placed above it. Once near the bottom of the listings of articles and no longer conspicuous (on or about January 4), it was ignored from then on. Yesterday (January 7), it was pushed off page 1 and into what could be called the archive zone.

This type of open-ended article does need to remain near the top of the pack.

"pessimist" - definition #3:
One who considers the the evil in the world as outweighing the good.

Yup. That's the way it is.

Otherwise, a username concept such as "LowExpectations" would probably do just as well.
(He who has high expectations is doomed to disappointment.)

"ALL I gotta do anymore, for now, is post articles I find that we would likely want to read, put them in a logical order/place here at the site. . ."

Fine. Do that. But (directing this mild reprimand to you or TWarrior), don't neglect the "ODDS & ENDS" open-thread concept.
Thanks.

"This [current article] is SUPPOSED to be a status update section for BRIAA itself."

As contrasted with off-topic issues; understood.
However, there is often participation support for an open thread, so it would seem to behoove y'all to see to it that a current such opportunity (current = not slip-sliding down to the bottom of the webpage of lists of articles) is available.

And while I'm in a critical mood, what's with IndependentMusician kind of lambasting Tomsong, Codewarrior, and others for their straightforward remarks? If that's how those participants feel, and I betcha there are others besides myself who share their sentiments, then they should be allowed to comment freely without having to face a subsequent rebuke by an admin.

There. I'm done.

pmmusic wrote:
what he said!!
Thanks, grumpygeezer.

You're welcome. Sorry for not acknowledging this earlier.


"There are going to be a lot of subsections and projects that are not exclusively about the fight against the evil and greedy RIAA, but they are parallels."

Hmm. I wonder in what sense they might be considered parallels.

"There are going to be a lot of subsections and projects that are not exclusively about the fight against the evil and greedy RIAA . . ."

WHY must there be a lot of subsections and projects?
Keep things as simple and focused as possible. It may be appealing to reach out in new-fangled eclectic approaches to various age groups, for example, but there is a real risk of dilution or diffusion from the main thrust.

"The reason this site works so well is that it is so totally uncomplicated...."

Right on!

"One problem this site has is a lack of coordination . . ."

Says who? Did anyone make a polling check to see what the members preferred (other than the current status quo, with perhaps one or two MINOR adjustments)?

"You want to know what we want.
Well, we basically want the current Boycott site, with minor modifications. . ."

"The old site is too limited, so what you're asking isn't possible."

CONVINCE us that it isn't possible. What do you mean by "limited" -- other than "too limited" to allow for new approaches and other possibly unneeded modifications such as " a lot of subsections and projects" that you're wanting???
You see where I'm coming from?
Members such as grumpygeezer are skeptics.
WHY can't we consider continuing the present modified mirrored image of DMusic as it is now? (I assure you, I am not the only one harboring this sentiment.)

Just a few tweaks, not drastic changes!

(Can I get a witness?)

Amen to that..

" (I assure you, I am not the only one harboring this sentiment.) "

True, but I don't think that I'm the only
that thinks the new site ( as a REPLACEMENT for this one ) was a good
step in the right direction.

No one likes change, until it works.

There will be differing opinions. That's why I wish there could be a poll (each member gets one vote) to see how the majority really feel!

Re: "No one likes change, until it works."

IF it works. And if the big changes don't please the majority, then what? I am doubtful that our mover and shaker would be inclined to return to the present format. What we have now here is functional and pleases most of us, with the caveat of wistfully wanting only one or two minor tweaks. A major turn-around (replacement site) is drastic; why is it necessary?
I contend the reason is because of a push for pet projects; "a lot of subsections and projects" that the current format can't provide for.
Perhaps not, but who truly needs them?
And is it all worth the dilution factor?

I'm like Pepe and pmmusic and others who favorably regard our site as uncomplicated, simple, and direct.

We need an opinion poll. I challenge the admins to provide it.

"I like change, but I like dollars better."
~Code

"We need an opinion poll. I challenge the admins to provide it."

I had one up over at the new site for quite a while. It didn't get all that much response.

Twarrior has added new polls there as well.

Poke around at the new site and see some of the features and things that are POSSIBLE for implementation.

Just keep in mind that the new page is messy because it is still under renovation & reconstruction. What is currently there now may or may not be anything like the finished product ...It depends on all of OUR input (and, of course, what leflaw approves of when all is said and done.)

Again, I want to say:

The new site is currently just a TEST-BED for what features and things we might want to have.

Sure, I still believe Boycott Riaa needs a lot of improvements, but I don't thin anybody wants the "main thang" of our basic forum's structure/feel to go away ...or become "lost" amid clutter.

I'm positive Twarrior is listening to all of our input and is adjusting accordingly.

-----------

Test bed...

hmm... "sketch" or "rough draft" might be even better words to use.

"I had one [opinion poll] up over at the new site for quite a while. It didn't get all that much response."

I never saw a result.
Did any poll contain a question about whether we would prefer to keep the present site intact (with a minor modification or two), as contrasted with forging ahead with sweeping changes (basically a new thang)?
That's what I meant when I wrote that we need a poll to address that issue, because I don't remember seeing one.

"I don't think anybody wants the "main thang" of our basic forum's structure/feel to go away ...or become "lost" amid clutter."

I'm so certain at all.
Re: "...our basic forum's structure to become lost amid clutter."
Yeah, that's what I AM concerned about.
Case in point: What does this mean to you: "There are going to be a lot of subsections and projects..."
Want to know what that sounds like to me? Our basic forum's sructure might become lost amid clutter.

"Suddo" sends us an image that is free to use for the Boycott Riaa effort. (But he requests keeping his signature on the bottom right hand corner. Too tiny if you ask me.)

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f64/Suddoo/freedom.jpg

It reminds me of some of Tom's stuff.

Nice image!

But (broken record), the specter of the potential clutter of "a lot of subsections and projects" is still unsettling.

Just for fun (and comfort), how about giving us a one-question poll.
And you can guess what that question should be.

Can we have it?

I, myself, don't know how to toss up a proper poll here using the Boycott-Riaa source-code a'la DMusic's infrastructure. (Not sure Twarrior even has figured out yet.)

fuDog and/or Jack'd surely know, but they are primarily DMusic techs and NOT to be bothered too often on our whims. (You would never believe how busy leflaw keeps them with all the other sites DMusic L.L.C. owns/operates.)

Look...

Right now, Boycott-Riaa's "source-code" is still tangled up with DMusic stuff. It is too dangerous to allow any of the Boycott Riaa admin (myself, Twarrior, or anyone else) too much access to the TRUE backend.

In the meantime, at LEAST leflaw threw us the bone of that "joomla" interface which I first expirimented with, and Twarrior is now re-arranging and fixing.

=========

Sigh,

does everyone still not get it? We admin here at Boycott Riaa oftentimes have not even ever MET the site owner (leflaw & his staff up in Pennsylvania) in person. We do all this sh*t online from home.

DMusic has 200,000 artists to protect (and God knows what else on leflaw's law-firm sites and etc.)

Do you think he should just let admin run willy-nilly with the back-end/source-code? (Even a LONG-TIME regular like me who has been a Boycott Riaa participant since Bill Evans started the whole she-bang?)

Give it time.

GIVE your suggestions about what you want.

(But don't ask of us things that require leflaw's approval and fuDog's actual coding efforts/keys unless you ask THEM directly.)

We are ONLY admin.

The NEW site (which so-far everybody hates) has the tools that we ADMIN can actually USE.

Once things get hammered out, we can import those tools back over here.

FYI folks, I no longer mess with anything at the new site. (Unless Twarrior asks me to help with something. But he's far more "tech-savvy than me.)

My "job" now is only to post articles and edit things from time to time, spout comments (just like the rest of you folk) and, in general, just to paricipate in the Boycott Riaa effort.

So, PLEASE direct all your requests/demands about "functions/features" (or other "tech" crap) to Twarrior from now on.

(lol, sorry to pass the buck Dave, but it's YOUR headache now.)

Okay; thanks for sharing that information with us.

"The NEW site (which so-far everybody hates) has the tools that we ADMIN can actually USE.
Once things get hammered out, we can import those tools back over here."

. . . and, once back over here, we can use those tools to sort of re-create what the current boycott-riaa site is like in its present form (with just a few modifications).
That way, most people will be happy, and we admins will have the wherewithal to mind the store without much help from fuDog and others. Plus, there can be a little flexibility for a few subsequent improvements for the future.

(Uh, that IS what you have in mind, I'm sure.)

(Uh, that IS what you have in mind, I'm sure.)

Actually, not all that sure.
That was written with a little tongue-in-cheek cynicism; flavored more with wistfulness than expectance.
I still haven't gotten over the potential specter of clutter from "a lot of subsections and projects" that have been reportedly planned for the proposed site that will replace the current one we've enjoyed here at boycott-riaa.

I remain skeptical about the prospects.

Kudos to Mike: He hit the nail on the head when he said that almost everyone hates the new site.
(Ah, but admins love the prospect of better tools
and better toys and better functionality, don't they.)

Folks, the big question remains:
Can we still keep the simple format we're accustomed to at this site, or will there be too many changes?
This is the concern that resonates among our membership.

"I've been told the two people in question have superior knowledge to me about all of these issue and i'd love their help. But i'm not going to have my authority disrecpected, not going to have any whips cracked at me (i'm not making piles of cash doing this, folks), am not going to kiss anyones ass and will not have this site turn into a flame festaval."

your authority? So it's a power thing then? Heh, kiddo, You'd have to be respected to have any authority. Simply being an Admin doesn't make you get respect along with the access rights.

I certainly don't expect you to kiss anyones ass, but when you talk as if you actually know something about the bbs scene (and you don't really), it's annoying. You talk the talk, but you've never walked the walk.

You earn respect fuckwit, it doesn't just come to you as you get bumped up as Admin. It's just like a bbs, your respected, then you get command. But respect first! Any SysOp who gave some fuckwitt CoSysop rights soon lost his/her userbase when the fuckwitt would start beating his chest and basically making a complete ass of himself.

You just talk so much shit man, it's getting old.

"(lol. And if it doesn't work and RaidHHI "types" or corporate "make-money types" ever take over the "NAME" of the Boycott Riaa effort "

What exactly do you mean by raid types independent? I'd like clarification so that I may respond properly.

"BTW ....What is with the guy in the blindfold???(accident victum? mummy wannabe?) What's wrong with the "Free the Music" poster? Just a little less dark."

You'd have to ask Shmoo about that one. I borrowed that "guy in the blind fold" from Shmoo's previous attempt on the new site design. I just happened to like the symbolism -- which to me signifies -- that the RIAA would rather have you blind to whats going on and have you follow their lead like a bunch of mindless sheep as opposed to the fans running the industry as it should be.

"I certainly don't expect you to kiss anyones ass, but when you talk as if you actually know something about the bbs scene (and you don't really), it's annoying. You talk the talk, but you've never walked the walk."

I know quite a bit about the scene and I don't think ANYONE in the scene knows everything there is to know about it. You offered to help me. I accepted. I asked for your coding help. I never got a responce. All you seem to be is just one of those elitists who think they rule the bbs scene and take pleasure in twisting words, manipulating others and going on a profanity-laced personal insult tyraid when you disagree with someone elses point of view. You gained my respect. Until now. Go join SinX on his anti-tw campaign or something. This sort of thing isn't needed here.

I'm walking the walk and doing my best to coordinate with people and get things done. All you've done is bitch. Put your coding skills where your big yap is and make good on your offer to help. Thanks!

"My guess is Twarrior picked a FOCAL point of that graphic (the guy's head wrapped up like a mummy) and "ran" with it ...perhaps thinking it was an improvement on the old image that greeted everyone at the top of the "new site" ...in an attempt to IMPROVE without offending the "regulars"

(Folks, PLEASE REMEMBER, Twarrior is NEW to our site. He probably doesn't know who the hell MixerJaex is from adam.)

The whole purpose of this article is a FACT FINDING MISSION from our new servant so he can LEARN what we all indivdually want (...and then, he gets to seek the mythical "middle-ground".)

\\\\\\\\\\

I'm gonna say it again. GEORGE is almost always RIGHT.

Try to admin/moderate/run (whatever you call-it) this place...

You's gonna end up boingy bonkers!"

You're absolutely correct on all of the above. Adminning / Moderating this place is what this place has lacked which is why all its been is a great place to get the latest news (and listen to people bitch about everything lol) but NOTHING MORE. I'm trying to get this site into a possition to do more than that. To actively do some good and forge alliances against the RIAA.

Raid was right about one thing - the walk needs to be walked if the talk is going to be talked. This is what i'm trying to accomplish. If all we are is just a news source and thats IT then its all just ALOT of TALK.

""Damnit, even if over time it turns out the "new guy" ain't all that "likable" to all us "OLD SCHOOL" Boycott Riaa regulars..."

"SO FUCKING WHAT???"

My sintiments exactly, Shmoo. People like RAID seem to think they can intimidate me with shit talk and personal slams. Those methods are no more offensive to me than a QBASIC Program designed to reply to everything you type in with some hostile flamatory nonsense.

Right now theres alot I am forced to "let slide" but JUST LIKE in the BBS SCENE (looks at raid) -- obsessive offenses of insighting flame wars will be punnishable by being BANNED just as it has always been in the scene. It's more of a disrespect to the system / bbs / website *USERS* when people do that sort of thing. Sites and Sysops come and go but its the USERS that truly mater.

""Suddo" sends us an image that is free to use for the Boycott Riaa effort. (But he requests keeping his signature on the bottom right hand corner. Too tiny if you ask me.)

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f64/Suddoo/freedom.jpg

It reminds me of some of Tom's stuff."

I *like* this! Thanks!

"(lol. And if it doesn't work and RaidHHI "types" or corporate "make-money types" ever take over the "NAME" of the Boycott Riaa effort

,,,we can ALWAYS come back and start over with a new name if need be.)"

Hahahahaha! The difference between the bbs scene elitists and the corporate whores is the bbs scene elitists don't get paid! lol

"Stop fighting each other and fight the ENEMY once in a while!!!"

My sentiments exactly! I think you see now why i said to you before -- that whether someone is a noob or a regular, regardless of who is friends with who and how good or not of a person and individual is -- that if someone isn't here truly for the cause and gets all pissed off and leaves -- let them go. This isn't a social contest of who knows who and who is friends with who and who is popular with who else. We're here to fight an enemy, and this is war. The enemy is the RIAA.

"No problem with the new guy, just responding to the request for input...
I am almost totally computer illiterate and I love that there is someone here willing to take on the truely daunting task of making order out of the chaos that we have all enjo- er- endured (darn no edit anyway )for so long. This site is just about the only source of information on the subject closest to the hearts of so many of us who wonder where the music went. Much of the information shared here is unknown or unreported anywhere else.

Again, Thanks to all of you for being here."

Well thank you for your support! We appreciate your positive feedback but don't hold back if you ever have any negeitve feedback, either. If you feel we're doing something the wrong way, we need to know. Because computer illiterate or not -- you may very well be right and we may be the ones in the wrong. In these instances -- we need to be told.

"Twarrior. This guy is trying really hard and he's done a lot of good. I hope he doesn't get burned out and give up. I don't know if he's figured out that you can't give people what they want if they don't know what they want."

Thanks

However you'll be pleased to know that I agree with the opinion of my Linux Box:

Malkavia:~# get burned out and give up
bash: command not found

"WHY must there be a lot of subsections and projects?
Keep things as simple and focused as possible. It may be appealing to reach out in new-fangled eclectic approaches to various age groups, for example, but there is a real risk of dilution or diffusion from the main thrust."

Having alot to do doesn't mean it has to be arranged like the city dump. I'll be keeping things organized and easy to follow.

I'll also in the near future post the current planned menu structure for the new site (which is forever being streamlined and optimized).

Once i do this -- you will be able to *specifically* point out if there is anything you'd rather have done differently.

For some things I will have to differ to my own experiences and judgement but I will try to accommodate YOUR NEEDS as best I can. I mean this site is for you guys. For the people.

"I could care less what the site looks like, but I do care what the site FEELS like."

Yes, This is a very large concern of mine. People fight eachother too much here which allows our efforts to be only slightly more coordinated than those of the RIAA itself. This has got to change if our goal is to kick their asses -- and that is our goal.

"Hey, TWarrior, have you figured out a way to keep this, (or a similarly purposed article) at the top of Boycott Riaa without affecting DMusic's threads? --Shmoo"

Yes -- as per the "possible broken links" concerns that was also mentioned -- when the new site goes into place -- this current site will exist within the same directory structure in "read only mode".

This means everything that is here now -- stays here forever. Anything that other sites have linked to -- those links won't become broken. And i'll put some sort of an explanation on the page explaining that this is just an archive and where to go for the current stuff.

"True, but I don't think that I'm the only
that thinks the new site ( as a REPLACEMENT for this one ) was a good step in the right direction.

No one likes change, until it works."

Correct. I will not switch ANYTHING over until I am 100% sure it all works as it should.

"Fine. Do that. But (directing this mild reprimand to you or TWarrior), don't neglect the "ODDS & ENDS" open-thread concept.
Thanks."

Ceritanly not. I agree. I'm sure Shmoo also agrees. We're just trying to avoid the topic being completely ignored. We're not trying to ban off topic posts.

"And while I'm in a critical mood, what's with IndependentMusician kind of lambasting Tomsong, Codewarrior, and others for their straightforward remarks? If that's how those participants feel, and I betcha there are others besides myself who share their sentiments, then they should be allowed to comment freely without having to face a subsequent rebuke by an admin.

There. I'm done."

I'd like you to keep in mind, there is no tone of voice in text. He's not lambaisting anyone and neither am I. It is easy to misunderstand context in textual communications (unless your Stephen King or some awesomely articulate writting genius). So I hope that clears things up alittle bit.

""We need an opinion poll. I challenge the admins to provide it."

I had one up over at the new site for quite a while. It didn't get all that much response.

Twarrior has added new polls there as well."

I challenge the users to use the opinion poll that i've had on http://boycottriaa.com for well over a month! lol

Main page. Right side. Scroll down alittle. The question reads:

----------
The New Site So Far...
Twarrior, YOU ROCK! (Shmoo[tm])
Good, but not exactly thrilling me.
Who's ass did this peice of shit come out of?!
----------

Maybe if people looked at the new design before complaining about it -- they might find that half of their requests may have already been granted even before they asked for them. lol!

"We are ONLY admin.

The NEW site (which so-far everybody hates) has the tools that we ADMIN can actually USE."

That statement is pre-emptive. *everybody* has not spoken up, and i've noticed that things seem to be more assumption and less opinion that should be based on detailed observation. Hell, as per previous -- we were challenged to provide a voting poll thats already been there for more than a month.

Shmoo -- as a computer tech and giving any sort of technical support, know the following:

1) most people will bitch even if there is no problem. it doesnt nessesarily mean anything is wrong except they had a bad day or something.

2) when most people bitch, your words will be mangled and spit back out at you as some sort of frankenstien monster

3) most people will assume and bitch before reading whats there or inestigating. hell, even my PARENTS are major offenders of that. i think its human nature -- especially in todays fast paced world. everyone is in a hurry to get nowhere fast -- no one stops to smell the roses anymore.

4) never, EVER, take what people say to heart. they're just venting. most are trying their best to do their part to improve things -- even the hot heads.

The trick to getting things done, Shmoo, is:

#1 - dont be in a hurry even if others rush you
#2 - never take offense to what anyone says
#3 - do the best you can

My only regret is not having learned these things alot earlier on in my life than I did.

""There are going to be a lot of subsections and projects that are not exclusively about the fight against the evil and greedy RIAA, but they are parallels."

"Hmm. I wonder in what sense they might be considered parallels.""

Because they share the same goals and have everything to do with eachother. Fighting for freedom, community spirit, getting people to work together, fighting injustice and all of the things that corporations such as the RIAA would try to take away from us as their goals are to crack the whip as we bow to their supreme rule. Screw that.

"There will not be two sites, only one. Just as DMusic has undergone a facelift, so will Boycott-RIAA. But it will be a while before it's all set. What Twarrior is asking for is your input now... before it's set about what you would like to see there. That's all. And I think I have impressed upon him in the nicest possible way how highly I regard each and every one of you. I don't think any of you doubt that. BUT, the site will change, and just like DMusic, if we don't know what you want beforehand, it can be a nightmare to implement later on.

I know I'm off-topic here, but I've been deleted before. It doesn't hurt as much as you might think. George, Tom, and Code-- you all have valuable insight, and so much knowledge, I never can thank you for all I've learned from you. But things change. And if I can adapt, although it has been a little difficult at times, so can you. I respect you all too much to have you think I don't understand what you're saying. I'm only asking that you give it time, a chance. And have a little faith."

Thanks. As long as they aren't flamable like RAID and others -- they can be as skeptical as they wish to be. I don't expect instant trust. I don't expect instant faith. Time needs to show them whats going on. It would be unreasonable and nazi-ish of me if i expected everyone to just accept me at point blank and follow my every word as gospel. Hell -- thats what the RIAA expects everyone to do and we sure as hell arent those assholes or anything like them.

As long as they're civil they can be skeptical, they're entitled to their opinions and in the worst case scenario -- they can even hate me with a passion if that is their wish. Hate only hurts those feeling the emotion.

They are 100% entitled to their views and neither of us have to agree with them. They're within their rights.

"I remain skeptical about the prospects."

Thats good because i look at it this way:

What would give you the greater joy?

1) For world peace to be acheived
2) To be on the brink of anhialation with the unexpected twist of world peace resulting

I think negetive and positive keep a very nice little ballence. If you expected the worst and you got the best -- how much more thankful for the best are you going to be than if the best is what you had expected?

Trust me -- with some of the hard-heads around here *I* am as skeptical of success as anyone else is -- just for equal and opposite reasons. But I'm going to try.

The best things in life that are worth doing aren't worth it because they are easy to do -- they are worth it because they are hard to do.

"(lol. And if it doesn't work and RaidHHI "types" or corporate "make-money types" ever take over the "NAME" of the Boycott Riaa effort "

Raid, it is common knowledge here that you believe that sharing and/or seeding the verboten RIAA music via p2p and other means is a good thing to do to fight them. (Folk who adhere to the Boycott Riaa message are of the opposite mindset.)

As for the "make money types" -- it means if Boycott Riaa were ever taken over by someone who's purpose was to commercialize the site.

That's all I meant by the comment.

(Should have been clear enough I thought.)

"You'd have to ask Shmoo about that one. I borrowed that "guy in the blind fold" from Shmoo's previous attempt on the new site design."

Actually, mixerjaexx of http://supportug.com came up with the guy in the blindfold graphic when he helped us instal the joomla interface for the new site. (I had planned on changing or at least rotating it with other graphics, but never could figure out how because mixerjaexx had made it a part of of the html/css or some other file I couldn't access on DMusic's servers. In other words, it was part of the source-code BEFORE the things I could manipulate with the joomla interface.)

"And while I'm in a critical mood, what's with IndependentMusician kind of lambasting Tomsong, Codewarrior, and others for their straightforward remarks? If that's how those participants feel, and I betcha there are others besides myself who share their sentiments, then they should be allowed to comment freely without having to face a subsequent rebuke by an admin.
There. I'm done." -- grumpygeezer


"I'd like you to keep in mind, there is no tone of voice in text. Shmoo's not lambasting anyone and neither am I. It is easy to misunderstand context in textual communications (unless you're Stephen King or some awesomely articulate writing genius). So, I hope that clears things up a little bit." -- TWarrior


Well, I wasn't going by tone of voice. I'll quote a section of his words for you now, so you can better assess whether they're "kind of lambasting" or not:

"Tomsong, I am looking at YOU. (I do know and "grok" that you operate on quantum levels and etc.)

You TOO, CodeWarrior.

Get in here and be PROACTIVE about the core agenda/issues instead of simply beating up/destroying (instead of sagaciously influencing) any new directions that are trying to occur.

Damnit, even if over time it turns out the "new guy" ain't all that "likable" to all us "OLD SCHOOL" Boycott Riaa regulars...

SO FUCKING WHAT???

PASS the torch. Be supportive!

Stop fighting each other and fight the ENEMY once in awhile!!!"



Directed specifically to Codewarrior and Tomsong, those phrases "... instead of simply beating up/destroying any new directions..." and "... fight the ENEMY once in awhile!!!"
at face value, are (to use MY phrase) "kind of lambasting".
Auditory tone or inflection is not needed to reasonably discern that.

[Webster's Unabridged Dictionary: "lambast"/"lambaste": to severely scold]

I had said "kind of lambasting", thus meaning "sort of severely scolding".


Bottom line: My comment was about Shmoo rather severely scolding Codewarrior and Tomsong. You disagree, but the evidence does indicate him doing that kind of "rebuke" (which is the other word I had used in my follow-up remark about how they should be allowed to comment freely).



So, I hope that clears things up a bit.

I admit that I was scolding them. (Especially tomsong) because I felt they hadn't giving Twarrior a fair shake these past couple weeks.

But I am going to try to stay out of such arguements over Twarrior's handling of things from now on. (Pro or con.) Sticking my nose in to defend either side seems to do more harm than good.

My hope was (and remains) for a little "site-unity" amongst our regular members. Instead of cussing at Twarrior or tomsong (and/or whomever are having a flamewar at the moment) I am just going to cross my fingers and hope everyone works it out on their own.

...or else, my ulcer is going to burst

I'm sorry to have had to bring up that issue again, Shmoo, but your friend was disputing me over it.


"I am going to try to stay out of arguments ...
Sticking my nose in to defend either side seems to do more harm than good."

When a person has strong feelings, they should express them!
Keep participating.
Everybody's input is important.

"My hope was (and remains) for a little site-unity amongst our regular members."

I know that's an expressed hope of yours and TWarrior's.
And it's an admirable one.
But, again, when you have strong convictions and feel compelled to express them, you should.
(even in the heat of battle, so to speak)

If what I've just written seems somewhat incompatible with a viewpoint I may have posted previously, it can be harmonized this way:
I suggest Mike, or anyone else, NOT refrain from expressing their strong feelings or convictions about issues, even during the middle of a verbal altercation.
The only caveat I would add is that we don't necessarily want to deter OTHERS from doing the same (which might happen if we rebuke/scold them for speaking THEIR minds).

I've just gotta stop taking everyone's squabbles personally.

It hurts to see friends fighting.

And I want everyone to know I consider virtually all the folk who participate here to be a friend (even if I yell myself from time to time. lol.)

Twarrior, I offer a suggestion:

This ariticle has over 100 comments already. Usually, what we previous admin would do is create a fresh clone-article ...and/or updated "part 2" ...if you know what I mean, where we could continue the discussion of the "top of the page" article without asking casual visitors and other participants to scroll down so much.

Letting the original article slip down the front page (by changing date to it's original posting date) after putting a conspicuous link to it in the new "part 2" always seemed to work well.

I'd do it myself for ya, but I am again away from home and unable to log into the backend from this 'puter at work. It'll be Sunday or Monday before I'm able to do much of anything. (as usual)

"It hurts to see friends fighting.
I've just gotta stop taking everyone's squabbles personally."

Being very concerned is a hallmark of a dedicated person.
You care about people, and you want to look out for the best interests of this website.

"As for the "make money types" -- it means if Boycott Riaa were ever taken over by someone who's purpose was to commercialize the site."

I do wish to attempt (with Tracy's help) to find ways to generate some sort of income for BRIAA at some point in the near future -- but i'd sooner castrate myself than commercialize BRIAA.

"Actually, mixerjaexx of http://supportug.com came up with the guy in the blindfold graphic when he helped us instal the joomla interface for the new site. (I had planned on changing or at least rotating it with other graphics, but never could figure out how because mixerjaexx had made it a part of of the html/css or some other file I couldn't access on DMusic's servers. In other words, it was part of the source-code BEFORE the things I could manipulate with the joomla interface.)"

Unfortunately we're stuck with one graphic. The way Joolma has it setup -- the graphic is defined in the CSS file. If there is a way to make CSS do a random rotation -- I've got no idea what it is. The section of HTML that calls from the CSS is mixed in with PHP and as you all know -- i'm not a programmer. If I had a PHP programmer that could go in and edit that -- there are plenty of scripts that easily provide a random graphic rotation. I will however check to see if maybe there is some sort of Joomla Addon that does this. If not -- for anyone who has viewed more of the new site than simply a page or two -- I am implimenting a graphic (or more than one in some cases) for each sub-section. I don't want to "go nuts" with the graphics though to avoid clutter and I also don't want to make page loads slow.

"Bottom line: My comment was about Shmoo rather severely scolding Codewarrior and Tomsong. You disagree, but the evidence does indicate him doing that kind of "rebuke" (which is the other word I had used in my follow-up remark about how they should be allowed to comment freely)."

Ah ok that clarifies things for me quite a bit. Unfortunately sometimes alittle scolding is nessesary as long as its a last resort and is not done in a "belittling" manor. For example, I respect Tomsongs knowledge of the issues and I respect RAID's talent and skill. However -- personal attacks (be it directed at me or anyone else here) makes this site seem as if (as someone else already stated) its more like an "episode of Jerry Springer" rather than what BRIAA is supposed to be.

Seeing as i'm sure SOMEONE is going to ask the obvious question of "ok, then whats it supposed to be?" i'll just give a pre-emptive answer to that.

It's supposed to be a medium in which we can all work together to help fight the RIAA (as opposed to fighting eachother).

"When a person has strong feelings, they should express them! Keep participating.
Everybody's input is important."

I agree. But I think all of us are capable of attacking the opinion WITHOUT attacking the person who holds the opinion, yes?

An added note: I seem to see far too many statements that more or less state "If I disagree with you, i'm intelligent. If you disagree with me, you're a fuckwit".

I don't think thats a very productive means of debating the issues.

""My hope was (and remains) for a little site-unity amongst our regular members."

I know that's an expressed hope of yours and TWarrior's.
And it's an admirable one.
But, again, when you have strong convictions and feel compelled to express them, you should.
(even in the heat of battle, so to speak)""

Again, agreed. However as i've stated -- I think we can accopmplish that in a civil and rational manor. My issue is that how some of the users here seem to do this is about as civil and rational as a troubled child on crack.

"If what I've just written seems somewhat incompatible with a viewpoint I may have posted previously, it can be harmonized this way:
I suggest Mike, or anyone else, NOT refrain from expressing their strong feelings or convictions about issues, even during the middle of a verbal altercation.
The only caveat I would add is that we don't necessarily want to deter OTHERS from doing the same (which might happen if we rebuke/scold them for speaking THEIR minds)."

Again -- I agree with you. However -- if people think they're going to be viciously attacked for their opinions by other users, this is also a deteorant. Personal attacks are not justified and will be scolded. Once the new site is implimented -- trouble makers will be BANNED after obsessive repeted offenses. People can have heated debates, thats not a problem. I'm just going to inevitably enforce that within these debates everyone RESPECTS everyone else -- even if they so strongly disagree that they feel like beating the other person over the head with a 2x4.

I'm all for debating, but don't bring your flame throwers.

I don't think saying to someone else "You're a fucking moron my God what kind of a fucking moron could say such a thing! You're a fucking idiot!" ... etc... will help debate anything or accomplish anything.

All fighting does it take us away from "I disagree with you because of this fact and thi fact" and brings us into "yo mamma's so fat she's got her own zip code!"

"Twarrior, I offer a suggestion:

This ariticle has over 100 comments already. Usually, what we previous admin would do is create a fresh clone-article ...and/or updated "part 2" ...if you know what I mean, where we could continue the discussion of the "top of the page" article without asking casual visitors and other participants to scroll down so much.

Letting the original article slip down the front page (by changing date to it's original posting date) after putting a conspicuous link to it in the new "part 2" always seemed to work well."

Alrighty -- I'll give that a shot. If its worked in the past then thats what i'll do.

********** STOP! READ THIS! **********

Do not post anymore comments here. Please continue this thread here: http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/21125

Thanks!