Limewire Hits Back Hard: Sues RIAA For Antitrust And Consumer Fraud

from the this-may-get-interesting dept

Last month, the RIAA sued Limewire after Limewire wouldn't agree to simply roll over and pretend the RIAA's interpretation of the Supreme Court decision in the Grokster case was actually what the Supreme Court said. The court actually said that services could be found liable, if they were shown to actively induce infringement. The RIAA and the MPAA pretended this meant that any file sharing network that had unauthorized content was flat-out illegal. Of course, that's a bit of a stretch. So, it already seemed like it would be an interesting case, but now Limewire has hit back even harder with counterclaims accusing the RIAA of antitrust violations, consumer fraud and other misconduct. Specifically, they seem to be making the case that the RIAA only wants to shut down Limewire because it is a competitive distribution mechanism that they cannot control, which helps compete with their monopolistic control on traditional distribution. It's an interesting claim that does make some sense, though the RIAA will simply try to paint Limewire as a tool for "thieves." As with many of these types of cases, there's probably a decent chance that the sides will settle before any decision is made, but in this case, it would be very interesting to see the actual outcome of any lawsuit -- both on the issue of whether or not simply running a file sharing network is inducement and on whether or not there really is an antitrust claim here. If the case does go forward and the RIAA loses on the antitrust issue, it could have a big impact on the traditional labels, and could actually be a catalyst towards forcing them to accept the changing nature of the market. This is becoming a case well worth watching.

Brilliant. Hurray!

God bless Limewire. It's about time someone gives the RIAA the kick in the balls it so desperately deserves.

I'd like to see Limewire win, it's a good program, i've used it for a long time, and I don't know what I would use if it stopped working.

RIAA can suck my halal meat

i hope there's a jury trial

i also would like limewire to show how the riaa has violated the terms of service of limewire's file sharing network

that would put the cartel on the defensive even more

any improper act that can be used as another tail to pin on the donkey should be of some value

go, limewire!

I Love Limewire

GENIOUS!

Why should the RIAA care about it at all? Common! I have Limewire. Most of the content is not even good MP3 quality, let alone CD quality. If someone is happy with crappy MP3s, then they probably were not dropping too much change for new CDs on a regular basis.

Now, if the RIAA dumb-butts were smart, they would push the envelope and bring better content to the table.

Well, the RIAA accused them of unfair competition, if you can imagine the arrogance it took to say that.

Big Kudos to Limewire, I definatly want to see what happens next!

This is terrific, but what does the RIAA even hope to accomplish by doing this? Even if they were able to sue every P2P program out of existence, the flaw in this strategy is that all of these programs utilize a free, open, decentralized, public network (ie Gnutella, BitTorrent, FastTrack, Overnet, Soulseek, DC, Ares, etc.) Almost every single P2P app that exists uses one of these networks; the only ones that don't are programs like MUTE, WASTE, and Freenet, which specifically use private networks for the sake of protecting its users' privacy. Others have died out due to lack of popularity.

That being said, wiping these programs out accomplishes nothing. Not only are the networks decentralized (meaning that if the developpers are forced to cease and desist, people will still be able to use the software regardless of what happens), but anyone is free to create software that works with them. Even if Limewire gets shut down, anyone can still create and distribute a Gnutella-based filesharing program. And since it is open-source, and considering the fact that Frostwire is dedicated to preserving the freedom that Limewire provides no matter what happens, all of the RIAA's efforts will be in vain. Imagine if they tried to sue the developpers of a BitTorrent client: It would accomplish nothing.

The way things have been working against the copyright cartel lately, the only real threats to the P2P community are security risks (which are easy to avoid), and spam.

In other cases, when the spotlight gets turned on the RIAA, they seem to panic, and put a fire under their shysters to try to shut down information about things like their contracts with Media Sentry, contracts written by the RIAA lawyers.
http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/
"In the Buckles declaration they admitted that the "instructions and parameters" for MediaSentry's "on-line investigations" were developed by the RIAA's lawyers. (See Buckley Declaration, paragraph 6, page 2)."
http://www.ilrweb.com/viewILRPDF.asp?filename=umg_lindor_060927protordernotnotmot

As I have said many times, Congress needs to start a very close examination of the business practices of the RIAA, especially in terms of the actions and inactions of their agents such as Media Sentry.

The methods used by their toadies may in fact be illegal, and the illegal actions may be at the behest of the RIAA...I say "may" because I have not direct evidence, however; there seems to be good cause to look further into the methods and practices used in collection of "evidence" by Media Sentry et al.

It's cool that someone is standing up to the RIAA but you can't help but think that this is a knee jerk reaction to a lawsuit brought by the RIAA against Limewire suing for damged of 477 million - don't want to sound a drag but not many people get any change out of the RIAA in court and I'm sure that whatever lawyers Limewire can hire, the RIAA can hire even bigger names that cost the top dollar, so I wouldn't put a $10 dollar bill on Limewire winning a court battle, let alone my house

"Congress needs to start a very close examination of the business practices of the RIAA,"

Why would anyone in Congress do THAT? The only thing people in congress give a rats ass about is whether or not they can get re-elected to another term in Congress. They don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.

CodeWarrior: "Congress needs to start a very close examination of the business practices of the RIAA..."

INeedAlover: "Why would anyone in Congress do THAT? The only thing people in congress give a rats ass about is whether or not they can get re-elected to another term in Congress. They don't give a shit about anyone but themselves."

i agree with INeedAlover
in fact, it's even more compelling when you consider
that the riaa contributes to certain members of congress

why would congress bite the hand that feeds them
john q public are considered peons
and with the media usually parroting the riaa mantra
congress doesn't have much to worry about

the pipe dream that the corrupt congress critters might investigate the business practices of the riaa is just that, a dream

even worse, our government is complicit with the global push on intellectual property
and its mood is to lean toward strict enforcement
thus it's doubtful they would act in a way
that might be seen as opposing the riaa
which itself clamors for strict enforcement
you understand what i'm getting at

sorry, Codewarrior, but congress may be one of the last places one might hope for justice or fairness

the best cards will have to be played in the courtroom

Good.... sue those bastards... the best defense is a good offence.

I use lime wire

My Boss at work uses it to infringe on copyright. She's been downloading it to her MP3 player without paying.

And to you people, What you are trying to support is an infringing company who does not care about the real effects of the music industry.

I am not on Boycott-RIAA to defend infringers, I am at Boycott-RIAA to take a stance against the deteration of fair use rights.

Ever since I heard about copyright protected CDs comming out, I was shocked to hear that this unfair move from the entertainment industry has made caused me to bash at these people.

Grokster, Limewire, eDonkey and eMule, and KaZaA was from the beginning infringing companies that destroyed the industry.

What I am complaining about is all that move from the RIAA taking away my freedom to listen to my music that I purchased. With these copy controlled CDs, ARccOS-encrypted DVDs, and with that out-of-this-world encrypted HD disks comming out, I feel like a criminal making a personal copy of a work so that I can listen to my CDs and watch DVDs on my iPod.

There are legal alternatives to Limewire, and such, like Zune's Song-beaming system that let's users share music legally with a peer. New copyright file-sharing sites will open up allowing one consumer to "sammple" and "purchase" someone elses song. A site may allow consumers to purchase iTunes, Rhapcity, and other stores.

Hopefully, new Blu-rays and HD-DVD disks may get it right this time and allow me to freely make copies of my movie collection and store it on my backup hard drive and to my iPod video.

"and with the media usually parroting the riaa mantra"
most of the news media is owned by the same companys that are members of the riaa
read George Orwell's 1984 while listening to Rush's 2112 (while smoking pot with a walrus, then you'll understand my point)

"Grokster, Limewire, eDonkey and eMule, and KaZaA was from the beginning infringing companies that destroyed the industry."
and guns kill people not the user of the firearm?
P2P is older then the world wide web and can fileshare anything weather copyrighted or not. The RIAA has said that over 90% of what's shared is porn, and yet I hear no cry from the porn industry. The only cry is from people who wish to rid the net of russian porn (16yr olds to star) so that ya'll have to watch Disney Channel and Zoey 101 to get yer fix of jailbait.
its been proven over and over that filesharing isnt damaging the riaa-backed industry, but getting the mass news media to say so isnt possible consitering who owns NBC, CBS, ABC and the rest.

Im sure Bush, Clinton and the rest all watch the news on TV and never go bloggin', it may not even be about the money lobbists can give. Anyone recall Winston's job?

yepperz, dun get me wrong, Im basicly against the filesharing of copyrighted materials. But Im not buying any of the RIAA's lies. Limewire is simply a tool that can be used for so many things (including the promotion of anti-riaa "unsigned" bands).

yeah... I ramble like an artist so Im hard to read, that's okay Code's so intelligent he's hard to understand

I am not on Boycott-RIAA to take a stand against deterioration of fair use rights. I am not on Boycott-RIAA to defend infringers.

I am on Boycott-RIAA because of the anti-competitive, monopolistic, arrogant, terrorist, bullying, illegal behavior of the RIAA extortion team, which is pretty well outlined in the LimeWire countersuit.

If you are a Mac user trying to promote your own music via peer-to-peer, there is no alternative to LimeWire. It's our only choice.

"Grokster, Limewire, eDonkey and eMule, and KaZaA was from the beginning infringing companies that destroyed the industry."

You say like that like it's a bad thing. The industry is a cesspool of thieves and scoundrels whose primary goal is to collect any money due to recording artists and use any means necessary to avoid giving it to them. You also used "destroyed" in the past tense.

We're not finished yet.

Then you mention Zune like it's a good thing. I thought you did security. And you promote Microsoft?

"With these copy controlled CDs, ARccOS-encrypted DVDs, and with that out-of-this-world encrypted HD disks comming out, I feel like a criminal..."

You should. You're obviously buying illegal music. It only comes from one place.

"I am not on Boycott-RIAA to defend infringers, I am at Boycott-RIAA to take a stance against the deteration of fair use rights."

JDonahue, I think you are reading and posting from the OLD website.

(Did you not get the memo about our move to: http://www.boycottriaa.com ???)

Everything at the OLD website for the past few months has been nothing more than a mirror of the NEWS section at DMusic.

(I've wondered where you had been all that time lol.)

Just to let you and other's know, Boycott Riaa is technically owned and hosted by DMusic, ...but operates independently on our own, even tho 'allied with' "Mama DMusic"

(When being a brat, or throwing a temper tantrum, I like to say that we are the "red-headed step-child".)

George, InsaneWayne. Give him a break.

He doesn't exactly know where he is.

I am being nice, lemme play, lemme play!

Differant people come to dmusic/boycottriaa for differant reasons. Even those who partially agree with some of what we're boycotting for and those who may completely disagree.
JD seems to believe a few RIAA lies and spins that are easily disproven with an 8th grade education.
Thats a big part of the problem.
I was at the local music shoppe the other day (passing out a few anti-riaa stickers and inviting young bands to check out what Dmusic can help them do themselves) and a good friend of mine, who supported himself in a cover band for over 20 years, was so mislead by the RIAA's popular myths that he couldnt conceive a differant way for a band to make a living without a contract. Here we also find people who cant conceive a differant way of buying indepedant music.

Unplug yer Mtv! get rid of the vidscreen! Do NOT sign any contracts!

Tomorrow Fayt will have his drumset here, mayhaps I'll get better recordings?
Im here at Dmusic/boycottriaa to support the new way of independant musicians so that when my children are ready, they can have their own chance and not the "corperate chance" of success in music
http://insanewayne.dmusic.net/pictures?detail=1&picid=58151

"He doesn't exactly know where he is."

Bullshit. This guy comments on every music-related message board. Look him up and see what he does.

this is just a f.y.i. note for whoever didn't know:

one can scroll on down the list of articles
to "Rapid Changes in the Recording Industry"
(which was released on september
and see several of this guy's postings in the comments section beneath the article

"My Boss at work uses it to infringe on copyright. She's been downloading it to her MP3 player without paying."

Two of my family members make their own original videos. They distribute through Limewire. ( 1 legitimate non-infringing use ).
Another family member is in a band that does all original music.
They distribute through limewire ( 2 non-infringing uses )
There are many non-infringing uses,
dare I say "substantial non-infringing uses" .. you know, like the VCR, and cassette and CD-burner.
But, you knew that.
The RIAA rhetoric just sounds better.

"And to you people, What you are trying to support is an infringing company who does not care about the real effects of the music industry."

I guess we have something in common then. You are supporting a monopoly that
does not care .. etc ..
The difference is,
We want the P2P to exist so it can be used by UNSIGNED acts as a cheap
efficient way of being heard.
You support your DRM because you actually
have a financial stake in it, as a DRM developer.
One of us wishes to exist outside the machine, one of is is PART of it

"I am not on Boycott-RIAA to defend infringers, I am at Boycott-RIAA to take a stance against the deteration of fair use rights."

You're here to sell DRM
You write DRM.
It's in your best financial interest to convince people that DRM
"allows" instead of "restricts".
If no one here buys that line of hogwash it
might be more difficult to sell it elsewhere.
Your motives are purely self-serving.

"Grokster, Limewire, eDonkey and eMule, and KaZaA was from the beginning infringing companies that destroyed the industry."

Actually the INDUSTRY is destroying itself from within. Greed, corruption, all
that money flying around yet none of them can "find" the people it actually belongs to. The industry MUST die so ARTISTS can finally thrive.
Musicians and bands will still be here long after
the industry dies.

This is a good thing.

"What I am complaining about is all that move from the RIAA taking away my freedom to listen to my music that I purchased. "

Absolutely right.
Your DRM will never fix that.
ELIMINATING DRM will.

"There are legal alternatives to Limewire, and such, like Zune's Song-beaming system that let's users share music legally with a peer."

No.
Zune is DRM infested junk.
If I take a song from MY cd ( yes, my band has one ) and I beam it from my Zune to
my friends Zune, it will be DRM wrapped and "expire" in 3 days, whether I want it to or not.
This is in DIRECT violation of Creative Commons.
That's ok I guess.
After all, CC isn't backed by a wealthy monopoly, so it isn't "legitimate" anyway .. right ?

Zune can go fish up a tree.
Buy one and you're a fool.

And legal alternatives to limewire ??
Well, that may be true if you are signed to a major record label.
If you're not, and don't wish to be ??
Limewire and it's ilk are the way of the future for us. Well, unless the big labels
feel threatened by independent competition and use their
immense financial weight to crush it ...
Oh , wait .. That's EXACTLY what they are doing.

"Hopefully, new Blu-rays and HD-DVD disks may get it right this time and allow me to freely make copies of my movie collection and store it on my backup hard drive and to my iPod video."

Come on now, you EXACTLY why this is not true, and how the "new" boss ..erm Blueray etc will be even worse.
Be honest.
Tell everyone what you are working on
JD.

""My Boss at work uses it to infringe on copyright. She's been downloading it to her MP3 player without paying."

Well, Turn her in.
The RIAA will give you a reward ..lol

Hurrah for LimeWire!!!

dredd,
that was a definitive analysis

kudos for succinctly setting things straight
about JDonahue

and i agree with George and InsaneWayne as well

"kudos for succinctly setting things straight
about JDonahue "

LOL, thanks Perilous.
First time anyones ever said I was me "succint"

well, you addressed all the issues
and nailed every one
in my opinion

Bravo Dreddsnik. You were absolutely correct.

I guess I'm always being TOO nice to JDonahue, (even though I almost never agree with him,) because he does participate in the debate.

I think he still uses the old Boycott Riaa website tho and hasn't migrated over to the new place. (These DMusic news threads are mirrored at the old )

I'm trying my best to stay nice as well, I don't want JD to leave, really.

But the more JD insists that all we do is
support 'thieves' while JD supports the largest
gang of thieves currently in existences tends
to push my buttons a bit.

Besides,
JD's posts enable me to get on my
'point by point' soapbox

(That's why I like him!)

One of the more pleasant news stories I have seen lately, That doesn't involve a gun and a school.

i'm going to post something off topic
has anyone tried to access george's azoz website lately
here's what it says:
 
"After attending the Roger Waters concert on Oct. 3,
I never want to hear a Pink Floyd song again, thanks to
the cretins which comprise an audience in Phoenix."

"I no longer have any desire to
talk about, write about, read about,
listen to or play music again. Ever."

"If and when this site reappears,
the subject matter will focus on something
which has a more intelligent following."

"Like fungus or dog shit."



wow

that notice is the only thing appearing on gdZiemann's website now

One of two things, if I were to guess ...

http://www.modernconservative.com/forums_metablog/317_An_Open_Letter_to_Roger_Waters___.html

It appears that Mr Waters is taking politics to concerts, in a big way.

Now, I have my opinions and such but,
personally, I go to a concert to ESCAPE some of the rigors/and moronic rhetoric
of reality, not have it shoved at me when I am looking forward to being entertained, and by someone who DOES NOT LIVE HERE, no less, summed up nicely in this quote from the above article ...

""Still, while it's okay to discuss and even have opinions on the politics of a country that is not your own, it is NOT COOL to do so publicly in an effort to influence that country's elections. We don't even particularly like it when our own artists do it, and when its done by an artist from another country, most Americans are singularly unimpressed.

The truth is, such a direct and brazen statement on the elections of another nation makes you sound a little silly and out-of-place. It's kind of like if I, as an American, were to say, "Cor blimey, that Roger Waters really is an arch-prat. I wish that wanker would just sod off."

You see how that makes me sound like a silly poser? Well, there ya go. "

2nd possibility ....

Rogers increasing need for .. ahemm ..
'backing tracks'
Some might call it lip-syncing.
It irritates some folks.
In Rogers case, well ....
PF was making the music that REALLY moved me, when I was a KID. They ( and roger ) have been around for a VERY long time. He is still on stage, and he's NOT young anymore. His reasoning
behind the 'backing' is to stay true to the sound of the original creations, probably difficult to do at his age.
I can cut him a lot of slack, considering
the ACTUAL ART that came from him and the Floyd.
If big G is p'od at the audience, they likely reacted very negatively to the
backing tracks, if Roger 'slipped up'.

Just my guess.
I hope that George doesn't keep us hanging.

one last thing ..

""If and when this site reappears,
the subject matter will focus on something
which has a more intelligent following."

In the US ( my opinion only ) this is no longer possible.
We have been deliberately turned in to an "Us vs Them" society.
Yes, deliberately .. no accident.
The more polarized those that are divided become, the easier they are to manipulate and control. Every issue now
is carefully converted to "if your not with us, you're against us", and the emotional
onslaught prevent any hope of logical, reasonable discourse.

Reason is dead.
The age of the Sheep is here.

This is far and beyong the protest music of the '60s, Pink Floyd and mainly Rodger Waters is now banned by me (and hopefully others)

I hope George will be back soon, his help in the fight against the corperations taking over the free world (mainly the riaa-bloc here) is invaluable.

"This is far and beyong the protest music of the '60s, Pink Floyd and mainly Rodger Waters is now banned by me (and hopefully others) "

But wayne, this is exactly what I am talking about .....

"The more polarized those that are divided become, the easier they are to manipulate and control. Every issue now
is carefully converted to "if your not with us, you're against us", and the emotional
onslaught prevent any hope of logical, reasonable discourse. "

I don't like for one minute that he would
bring such a heavy political message to his concerts ( as bad as the Dixie Chicks ), but because I don't agree, does that mean he deserves my haterd or emnity ??
No.
He expresses a strong opinion in what I consider to be an improper venue.
Thats all.
It doesn't erase for me all of the body of his and PF's fine work. Nor should it.

I really wish I could express what I am thinking better, I don't have the skills of George and some others here, so I am not sure I am getting this across properly.
As close as I can get is this ...

As long as we continue with the mindset ... " You don't agree with me, therefore you are evil and mus be dismissed or crushed" , then we as a RACE will continue to degenerate. We
invite, even ASK for the control of those
who wish to use us.

That's whats happening, right now.
Everywhere.

I will continue as a Floyd/waters fan,
as their art is cornerstone to me.
I will continue to disagree with Mr.Waters chosen forum to express his views.
I won't hate him for what I percieve to
be simply foolishness.

Dreddsnik - actually yer posts are better then my ramblings... lol
Boycotting doesnt allways mean hatred is felt. Consitering the non-violent approach of a simple but strong boycott, it can almost be a polite way of expressing one's ... non-agreement
I even believe their is a place for corperate controlled music, some fools may not wish to try and handle things independantly and want all their troubles served up on a silver platter...
(back to the original article... kinda) the problem is the RIAA is pushing the label of "pirate" on everyone who is anti-riaa even if they are against filesharing (of copyrighted materials) creating an US vs THEM