Here's this weeks' new place to vent folks!

If you MUST have a "flame-war" with other Boycott-Riaa participants, DO IT HERE ONLY (and stay on-topic on the other threads!)

(...but remember, we could ALSO use these "open-threads" for GOOD and USEFUL things too.)

--Shmoo

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12151701/

Didn't Rudy tell us we can "be funny" again on SNL? (And shouldn't that apply to artistic "drama" too?)

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I think the "controversy" of some folk "still being too upset to deal with it" is now nothing more than a way to drum up publicity (and, thereby increase box office sales) for a stupid movie.

I mean, c'mon. Of COURSE Hollywood was going to exploit the tragedy of 9-11. I think it is REMARKABLE that they waited 5 years to cash in.

Gimmie a break.

It will be a stupid, insipid, hollywood schmaltz
movie no doubt about it.

I doubt Oliver Stone's film will be much better
(could be wrong, his VietNam work was good)

I can't help but remember this quote:

"My only regret as a journalist was that I never found out who killed John Kennedy"

Hunter S. Thompson
Aug. 29 , 2002

As much as I am intrigued by conspiracy theories, I think that the nut up in the book depository acted alone. He may have WANTED to impress the KGB, Mafia, (and/or whomever/whatever other "usual suspects") ...but IMHO, he was just a nut-job who did it on his own.)

Sorry to those folks who would want me to believe otherwise, but I agree with the Warren Commision on that one.

(But I do believe there may be some truth to a connection between Tim McVeigh and Al-Queda.)

...are there intelligent aliens (even more-so than WE) out there?

Probably so.

...have they mutilated our cows, abducted our planet's inhabitants for weird experiments that can only be made "known" via "hypnotic-regression" ...and/or, hav we even ever been VISITED???

IMHO, not likely.

The message here is that we can't handle the truth. It interferes with the propaganda.

Aw shucks George, we are all gonna disagree on some things even if many of us can come together on Boycott-Riaa kinda issues.



Whee, this IS fun!!!

============
gfmlcka & pepe.
(Sorry to side-track and derail the topic you were trying to put forward by doing my "stream of conciousness" style of thinking. Please continue if you wish. I'll try to stay out of the way. 911 and "all that" is serious stuff, but it isn't really Boycott-Riaa related per-se. Even still, I owe you more respect than to lightly make fun.)

"i don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

--Bilbo Baggins

Is that a compliment? An insult? Who the flop knows?

(...but it is so insidiously ambiguous that I wish it were MY catchphrase.)

lol

My earlier comment was in response to the article.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12172838/

Run Over by the RIAA Don...t Tap the Glasss
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V126/N15/RIAA1506.html

hawk -- I posted that on the news thread earlier, but the news thread seems to have disappeared. The RIAA is apparently suggesting that college students should quit school to pay their settlements.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12112814/site/newsweek/

This is so disgusting on so many levels I don't know where to begin.

Incompetent, clueless parents.
DARE taken to a new low.
Notice how drug use and abuse are interchangeable in their minds?
Notice how marijuana, cocaine and amphetamines are all lumped together when
they are in entirely different classes?
Want to bet this iniatiative is funded by the alcohol and tobacco industries?
What ever became of communication between parents and children?

Kids, don't forget to call the FBI if you find your parents sharing music online!

As if it weren't enough that the entertainment cartels are turning our law enforcement agencies against the majority of the public, now the pharmaceutical and prison building industries are turning parents against their own children.

Don't give me 'It's for the artists' or 'It's for the children' bullshit.
It's for the money. It's for the control.
And they can all just go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned.

How about children demanding parents take the test? How about employees demanding
the bosses take a drug test?

How about publishing side by side politician's campaign contribution sources and related legislation they voted for?

Pissed off? You bet.

I had a very wise teacher back in high school who took us on an impromptu field trip to the local hospital one afternoon.

The night before a group of seniors, drunk and driving Dad's station wagon slammed into a tree and were seriously injured.
One died.
We knew these people. We had never seen
such bloody and mangled bodies before.
The teacher never said a word except get back in the van.

And 35 years later I have never driven a car if I've had more than one beer.

"Libby: Bush Authorized Plamegate Leak
Indicted ex-Cheney aide told grand jury of White House approval"
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0406061libby1.html

Ok, now I have an actual "music" related news story here and the "in the news" has disappeared....so I'll put it here???? This is getting really confusing...

Digital radio music downloads planned in trial

It is a Reuters story by the way, but it's kind of interesting as well....see how this service goes...

I'm curious. Do all of you guys personally like the music on Dmusic.com , Purevolume.com, and all those other free (music downloads) underground band sites, or do you just support the idea. I like only a small handful of bands that are only decent. But I support the idea.

"I like only a small handful of bands that are only decent. But I support the idea. "

Maybe on point, Maybe not ......

Listen to the Band .. Chicago.
I mean, ALL of their stuff, and there is a LOT of it.
They were a spectacular band but ....
Honestly, a large portion of their catalog kinda .. sucks. Especially real early stuff ( Chicago Transit Authority days ). When they were ON they were REALLY on. They developed, over a long period of time.
Not all Dmusic/Purevolume, etc.. bands are great, but, many are "early" and will develop in time, given the chance.
The record companies no longer take the time to allow great bands to develop and grow, so the indies have to do it all on their own. They need the support of fans to help encourage them to grow, and since the competition controlls all advertising and distribution outlets, they rely on sites like Dmusic etc ... to be heard, and get commentary ,feedback, encouragement, criticism and such that a developing band MUST HAVE to grow.

I definitely support the idea.
Even though some of the content does not please my ear, some of it does, and I may never had been ALLOWED to hear it if the RIAA had their way.

Good points, Dredd.

"Do all of you guys personally like the music on Dmusic.com , Purevolume.com, and all those other free (music downloads) underground band sites..."

It's just as good as what's on the radio.

"...or do you just support the idea."
Can't you do both?

I do both.

(Chicago's early stuff was the BEST stuff Dreddsnik, not the other way around.)

LOL, SOME of it is

My point was ...
They ( as well as many other bands of the time ) tried a LOT of different things.
Not all of them worked, but they got to try it. The whole catalog, from beginning to end is "peppered" with GREAT songs amongst the things that failed. There were more "fails" than successes ( My own opinion ) but they were allowed to try them, to hone their craft

When they became .. Pete Cetera and Chicago is when they blew REAL chunks

"It's just as good as what's on the radio.
" Goerge you mean you don't like the music, correct? (I all ways get the impression you don't like anything on the radio, like me.)
And yes, you can do both. But it seems like most of you JUST support the idea. You never actualy say there's good music on these sites. Just a few articles on the good idea behind it.

LOL

I wonder whats behind the mask

I don't quite understand what you mean.

I have an idea how to end all the anti-immigration hoopla. Simply erase the boundary lines between the U.S. and Mexico, and declare us both merged into one nation!
Let's see, how about calling it
the United States of Amexico?
(Hmm, has a nice ring to it.)

"the United States of Amexico"?

(boo; hiss)

Okay, how about the United States of Mexerica?

(groan)

I say we settle for United States of AMEXICA.
There.

On third thought, perhaps we can offer to let Canada join in, too. That way, our whole continent of North America could be just one nation! Yeah, there's a worthy goal.

Combining the names could be tough, though.

Canamerimexia?

(I think I'd better keep my day job.)

I know exactly what I mean

"When they became .. "Pete Cetera and Chicago" is when they blew REAL chunks"

Yup, I agree with you there. When the Industry (or maybe Pete himself along with HIS management/agents/staff) started to try and "market" the band in a so-called "popular" way with a "defined frontman" is when the ART and MUSIC and LOVE took a back seat.

...but you are just using Chicago as an example of what you are talking about. (And I certainly KNOW and GROK what you are REALLY talking about.)

--So, let's agree to STOP talking about Chicago in our forums ...especially since I just heard the RIAA has a new album # XXX (30) by Chicago comming out. (No need to give an RIAA artist any more publicity even tho we are just using them as an example of a point we are trying to make.)

MY opinion about what to do about immigration is to make it easy as pie to become an American citizen.

Simply hold up your left hand and swear an oath to abide by our constitution. Solemnly agree to abide by USA's rules and agree to enjoy USA's freedoms & liberty and agree to perform USA's required responsibilities.

...CONTINGENT upon the fact that you CAN and WILL be prosecuted as a US citizen via US laws if later found to be a terrorist and/or violent criminal. (YES, there WILL be a required background check!)

Anyone out there saying "amnesty" is a BAD word is likely a xenophobe or worse IMHO. (Michelle Malkin, you would be such a "dream-boat hottie" to me if you were not so xenophobic. lol, but I digress...)

========

"Give us your tired, your hungry, your poor!"

(Anyone remember that???)

========

I mean, sh*t-dang, c'mon.

If we were more (dare I say) "Christ-like" in our treatment of the folk who wanted to share in the American Ideal, don't you think that the ONLY folk left to oppose us would be the clearly identified despotic despicable tyrants?

LET 'EM ALL IN. (Then NUKE those who truely REFUSE to be free!)

lol

(...but the underlying BASIC idea of what I just said is applicable to what I actually believe.)

Yo, just wanna' stop by to pimp this week's supportUG Radio, which I host. Think you guys should enjoy it this week. http://www.supportug.com/radio/040706/radio.mp3

I'm all ears mixerjaexx.

"Just limit saying "aw-ight" a little bit for us listeners.

(Janis Joplin used to drive many of us NUTS by over-use of the word "man" back in the day.)

I luv ya mixerjaexx, but being TRUE about it I gotta say that last week's show had too much of what seemed to me as exagerated hip-hop "street-talk"

...am I just getting "old" ???

...even if I criticize the "style" of your shows, I want you to know that you are ALWAYS welcome to "pimp" them too us because I know the TRUE uG and "indie" message is being spoken (even if the lingo is a bit foreign or "strange sounding" to my own ears.)

I AM probably just getting "old"

Ask Bill Cosby

"Yup, I agree with you there. When the Industry (or maybe Pete himself along with HIS management/agents/staff) started to try and "market" the band in a so-called "popular" way with a "defined frontman" is when the ART and MUSIC and LOVE took a back seat. "

grRGRGGRG grg !!!!#@@@#@#@ !!!!

( not at you Schmoo ).

The "Fickle Frontman Syndrome". A favorite cost cutting measure, employed by the labels for a VERY looong time. A PARTICULAR pet-peeve of mine.
A band becomes really good. They gather a great momentum and are becoming EXTREMELY popular. They sell lots an lots of shiny CD's for their masters. Their Masters are still not happy tho.
You see ...
The band writes their own material, so they get paid more through writers royalties.
Their are 5 people in this band. Whether it's one contract for the band, or 1 contract per member, thats 5 WHOLE PEOPLE that expect some kind of pay. That sucks.
In a group of 5 people, their is bound to be at least one "troublemaker". You know the kind .. READS the contracts, points out when the masters are trying to screw them, insists the band keeps it's current direction ... expecting fairness. This makes a group much harder to rule and control.

So ..
Whats to be done ????
As the band becomes even more popular, the Masters inform their Lapdogs tat the would like the band introduce from now on as Hugh Jass and The Band. Every media lapdog owned by the Masters follows suit, and soon no one remembers The Band .. it's always and forever Hugh Jass and The Band.
The Masters speak "privately" to Hugh.
They point out to him that he is a household name. EVERYONE knows the greatness of Hugh. No one knows anyone else in the band. The Master points out to Hugh " You probably wrote most of that stuff all by yourself, didn't you ". The Masters say, " Hugh, the band is just holding you back ".
Hugh Jass, after having his ego stroked for many month as Hugh Jass and The Band, agrees.
The Masters offer twice the pay Hugh recieved before, ( not pointing out it is only 2/5 of what the whole band got ).
The Masters not that hugh has difficulty Writing songs .. but thats not a problem .. they have a large library to choose from . No more songwriter royalties for Hugh. Hugh doesn't mind.
Less work for Hugh.

Without The Band .. who worked together as a GROUP to create the unique vibe .. Hugh Jass' pop offerings start to sound manufactured and "limp"
Thats cuz they are. Hugh Jass quickly fades into obscurity.

Think long and hard ....
How many bands you really liked did this happen to ???

*grin* Na, I ain't changin' my ways baby. See, if you notice the way I type, it's about the 'freakin' same as I speak. But... when you got no cohost or any, like... queue to go off of, you have you merge your own topics. It’s sorta’ the same as someone saying “ok” or “um” or “now” or especially, “alright”, to bleed from thought to thought. “And that’s what the RIAA is doing. OK / um / now / alright / ‘ight , our next story…” *grin* Yeah… you see how that works?

I do agree with you when it comes right down to it… I am always improving myself each time, and some of the other broadcasts (excluding this week’s, April 7th) I say “’ight” too much (mainly ‘cuz it’s hard to speak non-stop if you’ve never done it before). But, this week’s show… I’m kinda’ at the relaxed point I wanna’ be at. Maybe using common “man” words will lessen a little, but my goal is to be as casual as possible with my listeners so I can talk to them just as I talk to my buds ‘n’ shit.

*grin* Hehehe, I think some of it maybe be you “getting old”. Na… it’s probably that I’ve just got too much “verbal style” or “street”. Hehehe, I’m surprised people don’t have more of a problem with my hardcore, fowl-ass cursin’ mouth as I suspected people would… so that’s a really good thing. But that’s one’a the good things about putting in hours and hours of work each week for a radio show that makes ZERO profit and is all about the people… is that you can run it however the ***** you want, hehe. Yes, it may turn some ears off to it… but supportUG’s been “curse-full” for years now, and there’s no reason sUG Radio shouldn’t be.

ThanX for the input Shmoo.

GardenFish -- It's not so much that I don't like the music on the radio. I just don't listen to it out of spite for the labels. If I don't hear the latest [big star] song, I can't possibly like it, much less be compelled to buy it. The song can't possibly get stuck in my head if it never gets in.

As for promoting bands... I try to do my part, or at least I used to, but lately I've been working on a batch of songs from some unknown shmucks and that's all I've been listening to.

Dreddsnik -- Great story.

Yo, that's some good shit you're doin' up on http://www.azoz.com/music/roughcuts.html Ziemann. Keep it up. Respect.

I know I coming here late on this topic, but I couldn't let it go. Chicago is one of my favorite bands.

"Honestly, a large portion of their catalog kinda .. sucks. Especially real early stuff ( Chicago Transit Authority days ). "

This statement couldn't be further from the truth. Actually, their first three albums released within 1 year and 9 months of each other were all DOUBLE albums. With the exception of the first album (which I feel is great from beginning to end), they did contain a lot of "filler". But, they also contained some of their best music they ever made. Listen to the "Ballet For A Girl In Buchannon from start to finish. It is truly a masterpiece.

They continued to put out music regularly pretty much every year. And while some records did and were better than others, their albums are full of great work that greatest hits retrospectives don't properly explore. Highlights for me were Chicago VIII, Hot Streets and 16. After 16, they became Peter Cetera and Chicago, with some record executives having the gall to tell them they'd be signed if they fired the horn section. It was the horn section that originated the band. All horn section members are still original members of Chicago.

I agree with the point about developing musicians. Chicago wasn't the best band to use to make that point. I always use Bruce Springsteen. His first two releases basically bombed upon their initial release. Had that occurred today, he wouldn't have had a record label anymore. Today's labels would have dumped him. But his third release "Born To Run" put him on the right track, and the rest is history.

Just my two cents worth, that's all.

"Honestly, a large portion of their catalog kinda .. sucks. Especially real early stuff ( Chicago Transit Authority days ). "

This statement couldn't be further from the truth. Actually, their first three albums released within 1 year and 9 months of each other were all DOUBLE albums. With the exception of the first album (which I feel is great from beginning to end), they did contain a lot of "filler " "

No offense meant, tastes DO vary.
They did try a LOT of different things, and not all of it worked, for me anyways.
I DO think you are right on the button in that Springsteen would have made a better example about developing musicians, then and now.

"Dreddsnik -- Great story. "

Thanks George, means a lot.
I only wish I had actual writing skills.
All the misspellings and poor grammar take away some of the punch.

mixerjaexx -- Thanx. Appreciate it.

And I appreciate this open thread being civil.
It can't always be like that, but I'm glad when it is.

It is possible to discuss the rationale of conflicting viewpoints without dropping into the mud. Sure, it's fun sometimes, but no one really learns anything after it starts.

"No offense meant, tastes DO vary."

None taken! I realize tastes vary, and I just wanted to express my opinion on one of my personal favorite bands. Thanks for agreeing with me on Bruce.

I saw Bruce open for the Chambers Bros in 1971.


He sucked.

Yep. And since his first two albums sorta sucked, well, he can consider himself lucky he didn't have to function in today's music environment. He wouldn't have had that long an opportunity to redeem himself (as he did back then).
I can't think of anyone (mroop or someone can try to correct me) who has recently been granted enough rope to stick around and try for a third album if the first two bombed.