RECORD LABEL MANAGEMENT OUTLINE


Larry,

It was great speaking with you yesterday and I look forward to facilitating your needs in distribution for DMusic and assisting your needs in developing a label. As I mentioned on the phone it is going to take money, time and determination to break as a serious label. This industry releases about 500 new records per week. And out of the roughly 25,000 individual records released in a year only 900 sell more then 100,000 units. As the unit goals increase the number of records that pull it off drop off dramatically. But selling 250,000 units is totally doable if again we are willing to spend the money, time and energy needed to do so. And in the end make a substantial profit.

Signing, recording, promoting, publicizing, and selling music is a huge task. The large dominating labels have the luxury of many different departments and dozens of employees to handle the workload. While smaller independent companies have the same responsibilities to manage and they have to be creative and energetic along with the help of outside sources to get all of the work done.

Below outlines the different departments and responsibilities that it takes to build a successful record label;

1)The Business Affairs Department: This department handles label finances, bookkeeping, royalty payout, publishing payout, payroll, human resources, etc.

2)The Legal Department: This department handles all contractual issues and legal responsibilities. Fortunately, with Larry being an attorney well versed in the music business, this item is automatically covered.

3)The A&R (Artist & Repertoire) Department: Locates and signs new talent. They work with the artists in song selection, choice of producers, recording studio selection and they communicate with the label�s Business Affairs Department to make sure all of the paperwork and accounting issues involved with the actual recording of an act�s record are set up properly. In short the A&R Department can serve as a liaison between an artist and all the other departments at the label. With cDMusic, most of the A&R task is completed. However the responsibility of the A&R head does not end at finding acts. He/She is also responsible for Artist & Label Development. And this is where a lot of work can begin.

A few years ago Artist & Label Development was its own department, but now a lot of labels have absorbed this under the A&R Department. This responsibility oversees the career planning of the artists signed to the label. This department coordinates a consistent marketing and promotion presence for an artist throughout their career with the record label. The pressure in the music industry today to return a profit has completely changed the face of the music business dramatically in recent years, so the emphasis has been more on Product Development and securing a hit as fast as possible.

4)The Marketing Department is responsible for creating the overall marketing plan for every record the label is releasing. And each artist and record can have a unique plan to capitalize on. They are also involved in coordinating all the promotion, publicity, and sales campaigns that the label is committed to.

5)The Publicity Department arranges for feature stories, interviews or record reviews in local and national newspapers, magazines, web-zines, as well as the broadcast opportunities for such coverage on radio and television. They may also coordinate any of these publicity opportunities with an artist�s own publicist. With our situation and for the sake of efficiency, initially this department should fall into the responsibilities of the Marketing Department. But as we grow we should keep in mind this being its own entity.

6)The Promotion Department is to secure radio airplay for the labels new releases. Their ability to get songs played on the radio is central to the success of the whole company. Understanding that in today�s world there are many avenues for making buyers aware of releases, radio is still the #1 marketing tool for records. The Promotion Department is closely connected to and constantly communicating with other departments within the label to make sure that all strategies being used to market and sell an artist�s records are working together properly. Soliciting videos to MTV, VH1, BET, the upcoming AM 1 and other music orientated television networks and programs may also be the responsibility of this department. Again with our situation and for the sake of efficiency, initially this department should fall into the responsibilities of the Marketing Department. But as we grow we should keep in mind this being its own entity.

7)The Sales Department oversees all of the retail activities of the label and concentrates on building relationships with the key record store chains and other mass-market retailers. The Sales staff coordinates their efforts with the major label�s distribution company as well as communicating regularly with the Promotion and Publicity departments at the label.

8)The Operations Department oversees all of the label logistics from registering each product with SoundScan and BDS, to manufacturing, to bar-coding, to coordinating the business of the label�s distribution company with the needs of the label. This includes street date scheduling, product delivery to distributor, etc.

9)The New Media Department oversees exactly what the name implies� New Media. This could include enhanced CD development, DVD, Live internet concerts, etc. Plainly, staying on top of technology and capitalizing on the media.

Every department at a record label plays an essential role in the success or failure of the label. It is a team working together toward the goal of selling their records, cassettes and CD�s as one machine. However, there is one missing ingredient to the success or failure of a record and that is the distributor path we choose. To be clear, the distributor handles all sales, shipping, billing, etc. to all brick and mortar retail stores.

We can choose the path of association with a Major Distributor. Major labels are called �major� because of their large share of sales in the music marketplace and their ownership of the distribution companies. With the help of one of the 5 major distributors and the strength of their dominating sales force these record companies control over 80% of all records sold in the U.S. The 5 major distributors are (in order of market share);

1)Universal Music & Video Group (UMVG): distributes Interscope, Geffen, A&M, MCA and other affiliated labels.
2)Warner, Elektra, Atlantic (WEA): distributes Warner Brothers, Elektra, Atlantic, Reprise and other affiliated labels.
3)Sony: distributes Columbia, Epic, and other affiliated labels.
4)Bertlesmann Music Group (BMG): distributes RCA, Arista, Jive and others.
5)EMI Music Distribution (EMI): distributes Capitol, Virgin, and other affiliated labels.

Currently Sony and BMG are awaiting US and EU government approval to merge making them even more powerful then they currently are now.

Or we can choose the path of an independent which combining all independents in the US total 20% of the market share. These companies too have their own sales force, etc., but due to size cannot compete head to head with the majors. The upside is the independents are not an expensive realm to play in and possibly a good place to start.

This document is a snapshot of the entire business and each department having detailed responsibilities it needs to perform. As I mentioned yesterday on the telephone, I have a strong history and experience of running a record label and understanding the minutia of doing such. I also believe by structuring properly and partnering with the right distributor we can easily move 250,000+ units per release. And understanding the above, below is how I suggest we structure and proceed creating less departments;


1)Operations, Business Affairs & Legal Department: This department would be an �in-house� department of the label.
2)Marketing, Promotions & Publicity Departments: Due to initial size of the label, I would suggest we outsource this work to 3rd party companies and individuals who can manage this effectively.
3)A&R & New Media Departments: Due to cDMusic and the nature of the business this would be an �in-house� department of the label.
4)Sales & Distribution Departments: This department would be an �in-house� department of the label.
5)Initially I would suggest building a label around genre�s that move units aggressively, i.e., Pop/ Rock/ Hip Hop. This allowing the revenue flow to pursue other genre�s like Reggae, etc.
6)The label should have an initial 4 to 6 artists on the roster to present to the world.
7)Partner with a distributor that has the power to get us to our goal of at least 250,000 per release. As I mentioned on the phone I could easily get us a deal with either Universal or WEA. With Uni being #1, I would start there.
8)Create, develop and implement and successful marketing plan using the power of radio, TV and motion picture soundtracks. This also, includes tour support, TV appearances and all of the facets of marketing.

Again, this is just a snapshot and I hope it is helpful. If you need more information or have any questions please let me know or if you would like to see a marketing plan concept please let me know. I can put that together as well. I look forward to building and working with you in developing a label. With what is currently available with the relationships through cDMusic, I believe there is much success ahead for all.

Thank You,


(name deleted)

Why not?

This would be a HUGE undertaking. We can't even get the DMusic Awards done right so I don't know about something like this.

that would be neat

Sure there is a lot of work involved but anything worth doing requires a plan and hard work to make it happen. If the goal is to become like one of the major 5---forget it! You can’t compete with them currently until a paradigm shift happens. If the plan is to help force the shift, then it’s a great idea. I can think of at least ten people here off the top of my head that are talented enough to market successfully if the resources existed. There lies the problem---resources! Cash!!!!!

just dont try to have random members running it it would be a fight and a disaster

I want a job in the A&R department.

Let's do it, let's do it, let's do it!!! I'm SO down!

I willing to take on the A&R tasks with independentmusician

I think the best and only way we can all make this happen is to keep hard at work on our music and join the services that Dmusic.com has to offer so that we in part will finance the project. I dont work for dmusic, so I am not trying to sell their services, i am an independent musician just like all of you. But I just think its the most logical thing to do instead of asking for a job position. The most important job position that would make this project work would be the finacial and material (music) support that the independent musician can make to dmusic so that their project can further be made posible. Best wishes to Dmusic and all its members.

wow. that'd be pretty awesome actually.

My guess is that Dmusic would financially only be able to act as a label for a very limited number of artists at a time.

This would be a step that Dmusic needs to think about very carefully. It could make or break things within a short period of time. I would HATE to see Dmusic go bankrupt over something like this (the RIAA labels play hardball with the music market and we still don't have a level playing field.)

But on the other hand, I'd LOVE to rub the RIAA's nose in it if we were sucsessful!

...and, if we DO decide to "become a label" I have a bazillion suggestions.

1) Sure, "sign" a few of the artists whom we could sell, but ALSO put out compilation disks featuring OTHER Dmusic artists, AND promote those discs just as heavy!

2) DON'T act like an RIAA label. (Actually, this should be #1 priority.)

3) I don't like the idea of:

"Partner with a distributor that has the power to get us to our goal of at least 250,000 per release. As I mentioned on the phone I could easily get us a deal with either Universal or WEA. With Uni being #1, I would start there."

...but unfortunately, the playing field is NOT level and I must very begrudgingly say that it is likely we would still have to whore ourselves out to an RIAA distributer to reach such a lofty goal of 250,000 units. Nope, I don't like THIS part one iota.

4) I have a bazillion other ideas and concerns...

BTW, who is this "Bill Summers" (Is it the same Bill Summers who is a musician?)

(Not a rep from TAXI is he?)

... I could make and buy

Audrey, I bet you (and the REST of this site) could do more than that!

Hey, leflaw... what if you somehow kept the thing community oriented like the Dmusic site itself already is? Maybe a "profit sharing" thingy and/or implement some sort of Dmusic-member "vote" plan into the decision making processes? (Not altogether unlike company "share-holders" ...but with some key differences.)

The TRUE strength of Dmusic has ALWAYS been the Dmusic community itself. If you decide to go with adding on a record label "business-model" ...why not incorporate the community somehow?

It's an amazing concept, and I'm impressed as hell that it's being so thoroughly considered.

A few pros and cons, off the top of my head:

1. Dealing with artist expectations. If such a thing is offered to the membership, everyone is going to expect to upload their work, or get a redbook to DM, and let the label do the rest. Sort of the same phenomenon as when a new artist uploads their work to the site, and then gets angry and disappointed that they aren't getting a lot of hits.

2. Division of labor. It's been my experience, especially on web communities, that any number of volunteers step up when a new project begins, and after six months or so, just about everything that was once assigned to many, winds up being shifted off to a couple of people who are the most invested. Of course, those people are rightly upset then, that they have so much to do, and ironically enough, also heavily criticized by the membership for the details they might have missed, or ways they could've done things differently. In other words, everybody wants to put in their 2 cents, but few will want to join the movers and shakers, in the trenches. I work for a marketing firm. This I know for a fact.

3. The tendency for a business venture of this magnitude, to take on a life of its' own. Eventually, it does grow big. And that's normal. Nobody starts a business with the hope for zero growth. And when and if the label gets just the right size, venture capitalists usually offer a buyout. At that point, the thing to do, is sell. If you don't, interest wanes and the business shrinks into oblivion. So it won't necessarily be a DM venture forever, and when it's not, the artist catalogue is under new management.

So, with all of that downside, what's the upshot? A real, tangible opportunity for the artists to rise a rung or two in the food chain. I'd love to see independents get positioned to compete on a more level playing field with the majors. And that, my friends, makes this concept more worth pursuing, than any of us can comprehend at the moment.

So, Thank you... for making this an option. And if it can be done, by all means go for it! The caveats have been documented.

Larry,
You have an excellent producer and A&R person that you are connected with already.
Bob Gallo (Hall Of Fame Inductee)years of experience with the MAJORS.
I'm sure you know a lot of others also. I think it would be great if you took a shot at it.
Of course thats easy for me to say it's not my money.
db

Yeah folks, Lyricwriter SAID it..

"it's not my money."
----------------------

This site is ONLY a-float (and not "obscure" like many other very cool sites like IUMA.com for example) because Larry has PAID OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET and, ALSO the participation WE artists/fans have dedicated to it.

I hope I don't get Larry/leflaw mad at me for saying this, but the DIRTY little "secret" about Dmusic is that it DOES NOT ...YET make any money. (It looses money out the ass and leflaw picks up the tab!)

Sure, the web-traffic here is extreemly HIGH and admirable.

Sure, our community is the most active/interactive
of ANY online indie music site that exists.

AND, we ARE number ONE!

...but,

There IS no real "business model/income generation mechanism" yet for Dmusic. (Not even a "break-even" model yet.)

Larry PAYS for all this out of his OWN pocket!

------------------------------------------------

Dmusic needs a business plan. I'm not sure that becomming a "label" is an answer or not.

What SHOULD Dmusic do?

In MY book, charging $$$ for downloads as we are accustomed to is OUT. Ripping off the artists/fans is OUT! Tons of pop-up ads and sneaky ad-ware/spy-ware crap is OUT!

PLEASE give your ideas!

Respect the artist, fan, consumer, musician, in equal amounts.

Respect copyright (as was originally intended) AND "fair use" in equal amounts.

----------

What's "fair" for all involved?

be-it: Customer/Artist/Middle-man

(I guarantee you that NONE of the RIAA would ever
ask THAT question before moving ahead with a "business plan".)

WELL............since Dmusic records have already released my 2 albums ROCK ISLAND by ROCK ISLAND and the brand new MIKE KENNEDY & HORSEPOWER produced by CHAS CHANDLER, and a few GREAT LESTER CHAMBERS CDs, i would say YES YES YES.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not however see my HORSEPOWER CD for sale at the Dmusic store {YET}??? now heres the commercial = it was produced in London by the late Chas Chandler, bassist for The Animals and manager/producer of the first 2 JIMI HENDRIX LPs. also has ALLEN LANIER of BLUE OYSTER CULT on keys, and a few new tracks too. = BYE BYE NEW YORK & JALALABAD.

Dmusic Records ? ABSOLUTLY.!!!

I also feel there plenty of room for Dmusic to distribute all the Dmusic Artists indie CDs on whatever inde labels thay are currently affiliated with.ALL YOUR CD's should be sold thru Dmusic.

but in reality, Not everyone will like my CDs and I dont love all the Dmusic indie stuff,{but 95% of it is excellent}. we do take the time to listen to all and we should all stick together and support each other thru Dmusic, no matter what !

Larry has went way out on the limb to keep Dmusic going over the years and we all need to support him and Dmusic in any way we can.! Buy the products, send in small or large donations {every dollar keeps really helps to showcase YOUR OWN MUSIC TO THE ENTIRE PLANET} and most of all stay part of Dmusic for many years to come.

MUSIC IS YOUR PERSONAL WAY OF COMMUNICATION AND CONTRIBUTING TO TODAYS WORLD... AND AS YOU GROW OLDER YOU REALIZE IT IS A WAY OF LEAVING SOMETHING BEHIND. A PIECE OF YOUR SOUL THRU YOUR MUSIC. GO FOR IT ! PLAY EACH NOTE AND LIVE EACH DAY AS IT WAS YOUR LAST.

"The Secret of Life is to enjoy the Passing of Time"
there is no more. there is no less. Music makes it all seem worthwhile. so play brothers and sisters, PLAY PLAY PLAY !

Post your music. I LISTEN & SO DO OTHERS WORLDWIDE.!

Everyones MOTTO could be:

I fought for law
And law won.........

Would love to be involved in A & R also check out the quality of my recordings on here....Would like to be a producer as well....Peace!

While at first glance everything seems in order if you take a min to think, there is just so much not mentioned that could easily sway this idea from good to bad. For example how about a formal business plan. How bout showing us how people are going to be compensated? Where's the money? How much is needed? What kind of a company structure is this going to have? Corporation? LLC? What state is this business going to reside in? Certain states might offer bigger tax breaks than others. Anyway, what I'm saying is that you can't just jump in. That's why most business's fail. There would have to be alot more talking and planning than most of you are willing to do. Just my thoughts.

Rico... Hence the title of this article:
"SHOULD Dmusic become a record label?"
No one is tempting to "jump in"... Larry is simply asking a question.
Also, I don't believe you know what we DMers are "willing to do"... Just my thoughts.

Right. Show me the money.

I have done a lot of research and thinking on this.

"Record company" in essence means selling recorded music. If we sold downloads and took a commission or profit split, would that be enough? If we activate DMTUNES.com would that satisfy you?

or


Do you want tour support, advances, promotion, guaranteed pressings and bricks and mortar distribution, etc, and WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO GIVE UP TO GET IT!

50 TRACK or 5 album delivery committment, copyright co-publishing, recording restrictions, consent to injunction, assignment of your website to dmusic,

or

HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY OUT OF YOUR POCKETS TO AVOID GIVING THESE THINGS UP?

or

ARE YOU REAL MUSICIANS WHAT ARE SIMPLY TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING or ARE YOU CELEBRITY WANNABE NARCISSISTS who want someone to CHOOSE THEM AND MAKE THEM FAMOUS.

My god, I am shouting .

Just let me know what you want us to do and how you propose to compensate us.

Will alone doesn't make a successful business. So while I'm sure that Dmers would go the extra mile, that deosn't mean much to me. People don't work for free for very long. And the quality of work from people working for free would always be suspect. I understand what the title of the post is thank you, and i was raising questions and concerns that would require answers before that question can be answered.

Speaking for myself as a writer Larry, I'd like to see my material pitched more aggressivley to the Majors. (I'm already signed with you guys) I've never had a problem with giving up the publishing rights (you know how much that is) so if a song gets picked up in most cases you being the label (publisher) would make more than I do. I find it very frustrating simply because I know that I'm writing material as good or better than a lot of the stuff your hearing on the air today, but it's not getting in the right hands. It's a "who you know" business unfortunatley. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming you have the right connections.
So that's my reply to what do I want and how you could be compensated. So have someone on board that agressivley pitches the songs to the right people.
db

Should we ask for a donation from Dm'ers who have paypal.... and money.

Just an idea to get the ball rolling and put it all into an account thats specifically labelled as record label account. No money going or funding other projects can be put in here.

1. Do it!
2. Don't be evil.

If my albums don't sell, I don't mind. I'm a real musician, but I can't make it my entire life. It'd be fantastic, of course, if I was 'famous', but I don't mind if I'm not.

"50 TRACK or 5 album delivery committment, copyright co-publishing, recording restrictions, consent to injunction, assignment of your website to dmusic,"

If that's the sacrifice, I'm in. There's worse that's happened.

So say I already have the account here, everyone has a choice of say, the 50tracks or five album thing, what happens if someone doesn't meet that?

Or

What if someone releases an album and if flops and sell like 3 copies, would you sue the artists to compensate for what was lost? Would that artist be kicked out of DM?

Or

For those who don't have an account yet, what more would they have to do to open one now?

These are some of my concerns.

^ They couldn't sue you (unless they put horrible clauses in). The majority of contracts say the advance is "recoupable but not refundable", meaning that they'll take the money you owe them from the royalties, but if it doesn't make back the money that they gave you to make the record then they can't make you pay it back out of your own pocket.

It's a risky idea. The size of the label you're looking at going for it way too big to just start like that. You won't be making 250,000 copies of albums straight away, because quite simply you won't be able to sell that many.
Myself and a few friends at Uni are starting a label at the moment and we're currently working on putting out a compilation as an introduction, this way we can get the bands to promote the compilation/label and just get underway. If you're planning on signing artists from the get-go and pressing 250,000 CDs, you're going to find yourself in huge debt. I'm not saying you can't do it, but from what I've read of everything above you're really thinking too large figures. Like was mentioned, only 900 or so albums break the 250,000 barrier each year, and just think about how many albums are released solely by the majors. Very few indie labels will ever sell an album in numbers that large.

If you want to make money, do it. If you want to make music, don't do it.

How about mail-order for hard-copy...either a compilation of singles...or albums by Artist/Group...Downloads are world-wide...mail-order could be world-wide too.

The record deal:
$500,000 total deal (It’s a loan)

Your cost:
$200,000 Replication
$100,000 Marketing/promotion
$80,000 Producer
$60,000 Studio Time
$60,000 Drugs and Alcohol
Grand Total= $0.00 FOR YOU AND YOUR BAND.



According to the RIAA, this is why a CD COST $16.

$0.17 Musicians' unions
$0.80 Packaging/manufacturing
$0.82 Publishing royalties
$0.80 Retail profit
$0.90 Distribution
$1.60 Artists' royalties
$1.70 Label profit
$2.40 Marketing/promotion
$2.91 Label overhead
$3.89 Retail overhead

The point---there’s got to be a better way!

The only way I see this working is on an extremely organized grass roots level. Conventional methods I don’t believe will work because of the Major 5’s power (that is by the way being eroded as we speak). In no way should we fear them though, the internet is a 70 plus billion dollar per year juggernaut in the US alone and that has set many retailers into a frenzy as to how to manage their business.
Tower Records had ninety-three stores and declared bankruptcy. Musicland sold and closed a bunch of stores. Neither is doing well financially. There is a paradigm shift happening and NOW is the time to move on this!

If we can all pony up with a good business plan, set egos aside and put forth by committee the artists that are the most likely to be successful first, this could work! We would ALL have to wear a lot of hats at first promoting in our own parts of the world!

We would hold a distinct advantage over the majors in the fact that we could be more agile, like a speedboat doing circles around a cruise liner. We could operate with slimmer margins not having to pay fat cat salaries to a bloated top tier level of executives and each of us could easily step into a regional marketing position even if as a volunteer. I hate this now cliché but……..It’ll take a village! And if we all pull together Dmusic members could make this work!

If we ALL pull together.


Does anyone here really care? That's the real question.

No label
No contracts
I like Dmusic the way it is. Make that "love"

More services thur Dmusic, such as copyright filing, and/or band name registration, ect ect. Pay for it as you get the cash, but no loan against future royalties.
I dont need a producer
What does a label really do for a band that tours the bars?
Back in the day (after dinosaurs but before Mtv was king) we toured the bars from Detroit to Chicago and had a following. If we had Cakewalk and Dmusic then we'd quit our day jobs (okay, we wuz teenagers without jobs.... )
Astra Records put that paper in front of us, we didnt sign, Im still poor and broke and Im still happy I didnt sign.
"If we sold downloads and took a commission or profit split, would that be enough? If we activate DMTUNES.com would that satisfy you?"
YES!
Also resell the CDs I mail you thur Yahoo/Paypal for a fair mark-up.
I would trust a Dmusic label more then any other non-RIAA backed label, but if it does happen can it be a separate site such as boycott-riaa.com is?
I've taken a break from building a full recording studio, my expiraments are still posted here. Once built it's for whoever wishes to pay me. Singing over your favorite karaoke song? A cover band making a demo for the bar owners to hear? A demo for the evil record labels? CDs to sell that a band retains the copyright to and remain truely independant? Yeah, Im showing every local band I smoke with Dmusic.com and telling them NOT to sign any contacts.
Right now Dmusic is for everyone, the professionals without contracts, the bands looking for a contract, idoit guitar players like me who have no intention of being famous, and everyone inbetween.
The better way is simple, but it hasnt caught on yet.
Band records their own CD. At the end of a week in a studio they have a Master that they own the copyright to. (or their own studio, gotta love Buddy Holly) Its paid for, no "points" to a producer, no precentage to a manager.
The Band then sends a clone (digital copies are more like clones then copies) to Dmusic and posts two or three mp3s for a free sample. (can I send .wav s thur Messenger?) Dmusic makes/sells copies to fans on demand thur Paypal/Secure Mastercard, ect, for a fair mark-up thur mail order. Hey! the Band's now international.
The band is also free to allow local music stores to sell copies, dont forget yer favorite guitar shoppe. The band can also give away free copies to radio stations, DJs, hot groupies, whatever they choose to do because they OWN the music, not Sony.
"According to the RIAA, this is why a CD COST $16" ...
According to Insane Wayne this is what a band should get paid,
in bulk CDs may cost less then $1 to reproduce, check out http://www.tigerdirect.com to buy the machine that does it (along with the fancy paint job they get)
Dmusic mark-up $3
the band gets the rest, the band sets the price

$60,000 studio time?!? The dude in Scottville is charging $40/hr. Im not happy with his recordings nor his price. $100/day for an 8hr day till I lost my building downtown...

Yep, yer own website, this that the other thing... Dmusic provides a lot of services for artists and fans.
What do artists NEED a label for?
When I get my studio up and running, will Dmusic host the website? Any "band managers" here?
Im starting to ramble....
One day a Dmusic musicain will get downloaded more then Britney.
One day a Dmusic band's CD will outsell an RIAA backed CD.
no label needed
no contract needed

Thank you Dmusic for being here

Wayne---you are insane! Perhaps you should go back and READ what I said.

not enough coffee in my vodka ...?
I guess my bottom point thur all my rambling is: with all the services that Dmusic allready offers, what would becoming a label REALLY do for artists and fans?
I trust Dmusic. There's a pureness of music loving here that isnt at other sites and centainly not with the RIAA backed industry. If Dmusic recomends this guy to register my band's name and that guy to help with legal paperwork I'll click that link!
But I'm afraid of the formula set forth by the RIAA backed industry and producers, labels and contracts are a part of that.
Almost EVERYthing an artist and/or a fan needs is allready here.

Dmusic should be a Record Label YES! Dmusic Records
DMTunes.com sounds very cool too

HELL OF AN IDEA.....THEY ARE LOTS OF TALET IN HERE BUT NEEDS HELP RECORDING. A D MUSIC STUDIO AND LABEL......SOUNDS LIKE MILLIONS TO ME.

I would say, in my opinion, the majority (qualifier) of the people on Dmusic are here because they "want to be chosen". They upload their songs either to simply share them/get comments/listens/some recognition that their music matters (I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that...don't flame me people) or in the hopes that someone will maybe, say "WOW. You're great! Here's a record deal!" somewhere in the back of their head.

There are very few artists here who actually are out marketing themselves, touring, etc. and understand what it means to be making a living at being a performing artist, let alone the legal ramifications of signing a recording contract.

Larry - Why not pursue looking at the production/distribution aspect only? Would that not be a simpler format and possibly one that many DM artist truly need help with (IE: Recording/producing/etc)? Especially since the distribution part is already in place (isn't it?).

I'm with thereisnoWill
Offer services to recording artists, weather they are touring professionals or dining room amatures. Have "Dmusic approved" lawyers for legal paperwork, and I hope when finished my recording studio gets Dmusic approval.
Distribute the finished product.
No labels, no contracts, no record deals needed.

This is very interesting. I personally like the "Dmusic seal of approval" approach. We could even do short run pressings if you upload the art work and credits with our "label" on it.

A new meaning to "Label" perhaps? We basically would be just quality control and short run pressing and limited CD distribution and promotion to bricks and mortar WHO PAY, with full access to itunes/MSN/Walmart/real-rhapsody/emusic/musicstreet/ etc. for digital downloads.
Like the Orchard, only not for labels only.

The Dmusic Boost may all anyone needs to get to the "next level.

So what would be the next level be?

Larry,
What about writers though? Is there not some way you can get songs into the right hands for possible recording by the Majors, if they have the "Dmusic seal of approval"? With your connections I would think that would be easy "IF" you believed in the song(s). As I stated before this could generate revenues for all concerned, seeing you would control the publishing rights and further more it would really not cost you anything "IF" you have those connections to simply submit a song. At least then a writer could have a true shot at having something picked up.
db

What alleged connections are you referring to? I am a litigator; most record companies call their lawyers after getting a letter from me or my firm.

Hell, I am suing Sony for the rootkit DRM. Which song would you like me to send to them?

I would have to hire a song plugger and keep my name far far away from it.

Next level...hmmm.

I'll respond with a true story of success that I was lucky enough to learn:

Performance Bicycle Shop was founded by a man in his basement. He started off by noticing that biking socks were poorly made and he thought he could do a better job. He and his wife designed and fabricated socks, a small production run, and then marketed them to cyclists. They sold famously. He increased the amounts of his orders incrementally and then decided to expand his offerings until they are, now, a major retailer of bicycles and bike products (including the socks, still).

Whenever new items are purchased for sale by the company, the purchasers still follow the same philosophy as with the socks. Buy a small run of the items, then market them well and see how they do. If the marketing was done properly and the product is good, then if it fails to sell...the company is only out a small fraction of money compared to an "all out" assualt on the market (the whole "buy bulk" philosophy).

I'd say take that for what it's worth, which could be nothing. But starting off small (baby steps, if you will) by coming in the "backdoor" of the industry by providing P&D will get you a foothold. So to end my long-winded example, the "NEXT LEVL" then can either be representation for/court/market bands with promise (and under some kind of legal contract) to other labels, or, if there is enough promise (and money) to be made for both parties (meaning you, the label, and the artist) consider releasing it yourself.

http://www.schismatik.com/faq.htm

Schismatik is a small label format, but one that has some ideas that MIGHT be worth considering?

They seem to be a 50/50 joint venture kind of basis. Is that what most people want these days?

hey anythings worth a shot.......i say go fo it!

Larry said:
Date: November 21, 2005 @ 12:23 PM
What alleged connections are you referring to? I am a litigator; most record companies call their lawyers after getting a letter from me or my firm.

Hell, I am suing Sony for the rootkit DRM. Which song would you like me to send to them?

I would have to hire a song plugger and keep my name far far away from it.

=====================================

Exactly.. a song plugger! SONY is not the only label either. I meant that you know MAJOR artists in the business (unless that's a look alike in your pic above.., they have connections? If I knew Garth Brooks (or a good plugger)for example I could at least ask them to have a listen and help me to get it in the hands of the right people who make the decisions. I could have the greatest songs in the world but if they never get in the right hands.. they are all for nothing.

A plugger would be very good. I have always payed my own way on demo CD production and mail etc.

What song(s)? I have many.. but like I said if you wanted the
"Dmusic seal of approval" then I could let you or the plugger you selected, make that decision from the many songs that I have.
I have looked into this: Am I worth the gamble is the question? That's for you to decide.
db

I think that most artists like the idea (note that word) of maintaining control. Control of their sound, art, etc...money, and all the rest of it.

The "label" has been, as I've seen it, in the past a hawkish slave-driver/task-master of sorts that reaped the majority of the benefits and often made the artist feel as if they had "sacrificed" their "art" not to mention their wallets to some degree. For examples, look to Prince (aka symbol during his, Warner was it?, break up) or The Stone Roses vs. SilverTone debacle..there's plenty of horror stories.

If you're asking me if people want a 50/50 thing, I don't know (it SOUNDS good, tho..doesn't it?). It's a concept. I don't know if it's a realistic undertaking. There were some ideas in there that could be pulled out (Schizmatik seems to act more as a distributor...not so much as a producer - their model might be a good one for that).

I would wonder if you crunched the numbers, what kind of money you'd be talking about spending on P&D only. How much would it actually cost to record a bands album today, using not a standard recording studio at 60k per Imemine's number, but making use of the really good little guys with the at-home recording technologies that abound today? I'm sure it wouldn't be nearly as expensive...at least I wouldn't THINK so (but what do I know? - tho I do remember reading about Avril Lavigne recording her latest album in a house somewhere for 3.5k/day and it took about a week or so, I think).

"most record companies call their lawyers after getting a letter from me or my firm."
Another reason to love Dmusic

"Is there not some way you can get songs into the right hands for possible recording by the Majors..."
by "majors" are you refering to Sony EMI ect ect?!? Correct me if I am wrong...please!
Sony and the RIAA-backed music industry is why I am HERE! To avoid them at all costs!

"full access to itunes/MSN/Walmart/real-rhapsody/emusic/music street/ etc. " is that what a Dmusic label can do? I know, Im missing a few things here, Im adding coffee to my vodka as I post this... bear with me lol

I went to Scottville high school and smoked pot with a few now-famous musicians, not meaning to brag, but my 7 yr old daughter plays giutar, makes up silly songs, and attends the same school. I honestly believe that she stands a chance in a few years to make money as a career musicain. I don't want her to be victimized by the RIAA backed industry. Im not looking to sign or be discovered by a crooked monopolistic industry.

"at-home recording technologies"?!? I watched a Vh1 show about Sting and in his studio was CakeWalk Pro Audio. I read up on ICP, CakeWalk. I have CakeWalk Pro Audio 9
What does a Sony owned studio have that I can't get? (okay... I lost my building downtown....) Point is, since Bill Gates put a PC in everyone's home ANYONE can now have access to the technology needed. The PCs Pixar uses aint built specailly by ... eh Im rambling again. Listen to George Z's recordings, he's a great studio in his dinning room. (but is it Dmusic approved yet?) I wonder what the Beatles and/or Hendrix wouldve done with CakeWalk and ProTools?
Instead of a label how about Dmusic network of music loving friends who can get er done?

Hey insane,
I think you missed the point here ..not to turn this into a dispute.. that's not what this topic is about. I'm a writer and I'm already signed with these guys. I need a plugger to submit my ideas.. be it to SONY or whatever MAJOR. I want my songs recorded and I want to make money at it. I'm NOT an artist or SINGER looking to make a name for myself.
db

and youre missing my point
Dmusic has the capibilty to become an alternative to Sony, EMI, UMG, Time Warner, & BMG. You wish a deal with the majors? here, take my vasoline with you. Since 1984 Ive been wishing there was a differant way other then an evil corperation contract and now here we sit at a site that could change the music world.
Dont get me wrong, AC/DC, The Beatles, ect ect, all made it huge and got paid. But what about the band with one hit single that sold a million copies? Did they make a million dollars?
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html from Nirvana's first producer...
Truth is, I'm burnt. I havent written a new song in a few years. Steven was the creative artist, may he rest in peace, who couldve wrote an album a year.
I'd like to see Dmusic stay a site that can be many differant things to many differant artists, writers, and fans. Be they amatures posting for fun, writers looking for a major deal, or professionals who refuse to sellout looking to make some money from CD sales online.
Im still looking for a new way, maybe even help shape it.
But cooperating with UMG?!? nah
I understand Dmusic needs to make some money in order to stay alive. But let's not go to the crossroads and sell our souls to the devil.
If a Dmusic label could remain 100% independant of the Majors it might get InsaneWayne approved
I think the majors attack the internet because they too see the potental here and they are afraid of us.

btw Lryicwriter, that's good stuff you have posted

Lyricwriter, Dmusic has absolutely NO "pull" in that regard. The major labels could care less if your song came to them with Dmusic's "stamp of approval." (You'd have the same 'luck' just sending them a disc of your stuff in the mail.)

Please don't take offense at those of us here that tell you that the goal of being "signed" to a major label is moot. (It is sorta the reason Dmusic exists!)

I'm not looking to get signed to a major label guys. I'm already signed to an indie that Larry is affiliated with. The songs I have posted on this site are only a few from my catalog. All of my songs are published and I want them to get recorded. I did not ask for Dmusics stamp of approval that was something that was thrown into the mix of this discussion and if that was to be one of the ground rules so be it. Once again being a "writer only" is a whole different ballgame than being an artist. All of the money in this business is in "airplay" not CD sales.
CD sales are only somewhat lucrative if you are performing live and selling them there "IF" your an independant. To get airplay in the US or Canada you have to have the song released by a major or the stations just won't play it. You send them indie music and it's filed in file 13 immediatley. Do I like that "NO" but that's the way it is. If nobody here wants airplay for their songs then what is the purpose of this discussion at all??? LABEL hmm for what then? So you can press CD's? Hell you can press them on your own. What possible function could having a label serve any of you as "artists"? I don't get it... We can bash the majors all we like, I'm a rebel also but I also want to make some money at this. Maybe I should just write poetry books..

Thanks for the compliment on what I have posted here.

Larry this is where most of my material is posted:
http://www.soundclick.com/pro/view/01/default.cfm?bandID=246830&content=interview

Anyhow I'll bow out now of this discussion.
There is really nothing more that I had to ask of Larry.
db

Dont "bow out", Ive killed too may threads here lol

I'm a bit lost... One can not get paid for air play unless one plays ball with the majors?!? I'd find a lawyer willng to sue for justice for the independants against such monopolistic practices.

Hey one at a time. I just Sued Sony BMG for the root kit mess!

Lyricwriter, you are right that you can't get much airplay unless signed to the majors. This is just yet ANOTHER of the reasons many of us hate the RIAA. (And one of the many reasons we have the site I run http://boycott-riaa.com )

My advise to you is to have indie artists (or yourself) record your tunes and try to get them spun on college radio. (BMI and ASCAP both license college radio)

Unfortunately, there is NO license thingy worked out yet for the Internet.

But, like leflaw just said. "Hey, one thing at a time!" lol

Come visit us at Boycott-Riaa where we try to tackle ALL these sort of issues that face musicians and fans alike in this f***'ed-up world of music that the RIAA ruined.

This is EXACTLY why this makes sense. It’s a movement! Take down Goliath. NOT join them.

All together now……..

We shall overcome, we shall over come………………

Dmusic has always been tried to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

No matter what, I hope that credo always continues!

One at a time?
They might be able to handle that. We need to attack on all fronts at once. George Z has gotten to talk with senetors before I believe, we can sue for damages done by DRM, sue for many differant monopolistic practices, DRM prevents my mother's PC from DLing my free mp3s (it can only stream 'em) where do I sign to sue for that? Hackers can attack RIAA websites (I'm not asking 'em to.... we all know they do no matter what) Registered voters can sign petations.
We are NOT pirates and hackers, amature musicians are not simply the unsigned, we are not the forgein terrorists who seek complete control, we are the American Rebels, loyal to the ideas of our flag who seek justice from an unfair music cartel!
Organise then bum rush
Take Sony down like Grandpa took Noramady

Way too much coffee in my vodka this morning....

at InsaneWayne!

If anyone wants to work as an independent SONGWRITER, they would obviously have to consider approaching the majors (or anyone else) directly to avoid any conflict of interests. As a songwriter you pitch the songs to whoever will listen, then worry about the contractual agreements etc. once there's some interest.

However being an independent ARTIST is entirely different and no doubt many artists would benefit from DMusic's support.

Finances, marketing, man-hours etc aside...I think the main problem is convincing the artists themselves of how much time, money and effort they have to put into the projects themselves. No one should be under the illusion that ANY company can bring them instant success. On that basis I totally agree with Leflaw's comment on musicians who want to make a living as opposed to "wannabe narcissists".

I've actually worked on publicity projects where the main blocking element is the client themselves...they often believe that marketing people can perform magic tricks instead of being there to guide them through some very tough times and hard work. So long as this is made abundantly clear to the artist, then they should not be disappointed - and DM should succeed.

okay, back somewhere near the topic...
Boycott-riaa.com approved labels should be invited to have their bands use the Dmusic store to distrubute their non-DRM CDs thur internet mail order.
makes sence to me. boycott-riaa has a nice list of who to ban, where's the list of who's cool (anti-riaa labels)?
Yes, part of our attack is to make and mold the alternative. These truely indepentant anti-riaa Dmusic approved labels can help thier bands with Dmusic websites, Dmusic dubbing (I just found that link), and the Dmusic store. Or use their own dubbing... Invite these labels to make Dmusic their internet hub, they can find bands to sign to fair contracts here and use what's allready available in whatever formula works smoothest for them. Or an artist/band can remain 100% independant if they wish.
We can then assemble these troups and overpower using our secret weapon, DmusicFest. When Sony falls we'll steal Sharon Osbourn the same way the US smuggled Einstien outta Germany....
Arrrgh there be coffee made from rum here!
I finally found the link to Dmusic Dubbing, where's the link to Dmusic legal services so I can register my band's name (if I had a band) and register my songs with the copyright office? These should perhaps be easier to find (their own tab at the tip of the page?!?) Not that Im using these today, but when I show the sight to local musicians with stars in their eyes I'd like to be able to click with ease.

dmusic.com/copyright or

note leflaw

or

email leflaw@dmusic.com

we won't advertise until its not vaporware.

Here'' Someone put the music to the DMusics anthom.

©2005 Lyrics/Music - Lost Gold Publishing BMI
David William Bethune SOCAN/BMI

"K M A"

Boycott the major players
In the music industry
Quit buyin their dam music
Put an end to their monopoly

The major flag their flying
Would soon be flyin at half mast
If we all just join together
We'd be rid of them at last

Chorus:
Let Taps will be their final song
We'll all join in and play along
Lay them to rest where they belong
Etched in stone the words will say
Major labels K M A

It's time they had a wake up call
From indie artists everywhere
If we all join hands and take a stand
Hell they haven't got a prayer

Chorus:
Let Taps will be their final song
We'll all join in and play along
Lay them to rest where they belong
Etched in stone the words will say
Major labels K M A

"A new meaning to "Label" perhaps? We basically would be just quality control and short run pressing and limited CD distribution and promotion to bricks and mortar WHO PAY, with full access to itunes/MSN/Walmart/real-rhapsody/emusic/music street/ etc. for digital downloads.
Like the Orchard, only not for labels only."

Yup! Something along these lines would be MY preference!

YES! Thank you!!!!

"Boycott-riaa.com approved labels should be invited to have their bands use the Dmusic store to distrubute their non-DRM CDs thur internet mail order."

...oh, crap!

(We don't have many/if any "approved" labels, lol... all we have are the ones we DISAPPROVE of!)

Sh*t, does this mean I got yet ANOTHER task???

-------

(TY and Damn you InsaneWayne! ...in the SAME breath!)

I got yet more work to do!!!

I WILL try my best to come up with a "Boycott-Riaa Approved" list of labels.

But gimme a little TIME folks. (Got a TON of stuff on my plate at the moment!)

I like those lyrics Lyricwriter.

YOU have work?!? I just wiped clean all the tracks in Cakewalk for the music to Lyricwriter's lyrics... at least the dust is off my guitar, now maybe if I can get the rust of my fingers...
lol

Uploaded, my idea for music to Lyricwriters KMA. The chorus popped into my head as soon as I read it, the rest is supposed to be some kinda rap (think J. Giles not Snoop Dogg lol) but I dunno, Im not that wild about what I did, it's just a suggestion to Lyricwriter.
http://vampiremoon.dmusic.com

yeah sure. why not. I'll write. tell me what you want or take your chances with what I got.

anybody read "timothy" ?

hmmm inspiring idea there. any musicians out there? play me a couple of chords....

You can take your chances
With what I got
I’m cheap, and I’m easy
And I might not be right
But the thrill of a pill
Ain’t got nothin’ on me
And if you‘ve got the heart
C’mon over and see

Cause if we’re talking ‘bout love
I’m the best that you’ll find
Take a ride on the bus
And don’t get left behind
Get a shot while it’s free
‘cause the bill’s coming due
and if you miss it just wait
till the next one is through


ok, maybe I should drink more...

make yer coffee with vodka instead of water to save time in the mornings....

Woah. Just discovered this earlier today and have been trying to compose a thoughtful sarcasm-free answer for hours. It has held my attention all day. I have typed, pondered, edited, deleted, typed some more, edited and on and on, only to arrive at the conclusion that I don't have anything constructive to add.

Every time I try to focus on making money, something bad happens.

that's ok george. it only took me 21 minutes to write something stupid

Support Dmusic ! Buy the Dmusic TWO Compilation CDs featuring Dmusic Artists.!!! If you dont want to donate just money via paypal, then buy these Dmusic CDs. That will support YOUR Music and OUR Site plus you will get 2 Extremely Diverse CDs in return. We must ALL stick together thru Dmusic +++. Dmusic Records will happen ! chairz, Mike - http://www.mikekennedy.com/

I think it's a great idea. However, with so many artists, how would artists make money? MP3 Downloads? I'd be interested in seeing how all of the genres make money.

Mike Tribulas

as an alternative to the Majors....
the five Majors control all the hundreds of smaller labels, so are the Majors really labels?!? Should Dmusic try and compete with the Majors? uhh yeah, doh, but does Dmusic have to become a "label" to do it?
Lots of thinking to be done here.... and yes, it still weighs on my mind, the term "label" frightens me...

Me too .

Or put another way -

if I sold Dmusic (or an interest) for 10 million+, I would probably invest 1 million in a USB flash drive and download label.

... as long as someone else ran it, and I was a minority shareholder.....

Interesting flashback.

I think that the idea of forming a record label or signing a record deal in the hopes of making a pile of money are both losers at this point in time, especially if the income potential is in selling plastic discs with 10 or 11 three-minute songs.

I think putting an emphasis on selling single songs is an inherent mistake for a multitude of reasons, mostly artistic.

Musicians need a la carte services, including honest criticism and advice, productions services. The audience needs filters.

Create collections of 20 or 30 songs and sell them as package downloads for $2 or $3. No material costs, no packaging (although the package could contain artwork and/or videos as well). No guessing how many copies you can sell.

Instant customer gratification. No waiting for the CD in the mail. For the price of 2 or 3 songs from the iTunes stores, they get a couple hours worth of tunes. And no DRM.

From the artist's perspective, it increases the chance of getting at least a temporary place on someone's iPod playlist. After that, it's up to the music to keep it there and make the listener look for more.

From an income perspective, even though the per-unit share is smaller, the volume should be greater.

It undercuts everything the majors are doing, so it's got that going for it. Economic times are going to get tougher.

leflaw, George Z is thinking along the right lines.

If DMusic becomes a label, instead of signing up artists, only "sign" individual songs

...and release nothing but compilation albums.

Fore-go fooling with royalties and just "pay" the artists in copy's of the GLASS MASTERED CD (hell, anybody can make a CD-R.)

But ONLY do compilation CDs of DMusic artists.