Psst! it is a secret, but "F U" = "Fair Use!"

Sorry if I mis-led the gutter-minded into thinking I was trying to say something else in an earlier post of mine.

:)

(Yes folks, THIS is an OPEN thread. Go ahead and "have at it" with each other.)

I would prefer that you beat-up on ME than upon each other...

But I can't really tell any of you what to do.

...other than my request to have you all VENT HERE (and let the other threads do the intended purposes of informing the new and non-posting readers.)

I want to start off by appologizing to everybody for my off-topic fussing in the other threads. I was wrong to do so.

Perhaps I do need to be "more professional"

(...perhaps)

Perhaps the BEST thing I could do would be to not "think my own opinions" out loud in the threads/replys (like I am doing now) and to reserve my words mostly/only for self-authored articles and/or commentary on the copy & pasted stuff...

...and perhaps, I should LAY DOWN THE LAW to our accused TROLLS who really DO deflect any particular issue/topic, (deliberately or not.)

(I, myself foolishly allow myself get too distracted/diflected.)

I also "think out loud" too much.

Even GOPSweetie and Gadflies had enough courtesy to only use/abuse an "open" thread.

TROLLS... (yes, you should call a "spade a spade") stop your TROLL activity!

NOW!

Even though I am guilty of feeding and petting you...

I really mean it.

We have work to do.

"...and perhaps, I should LAY DOWN THE LAW to our accused TROLLS who really DO deflect any particular issue/topic, (deliberately or not.)"

That's a real tough call Schmoo.
For one, I don't believe the real "Troll" will respect any law that you lay down. Banning does no good. Even if you somehow manage to ban by IP, our "Troll" is savvy enough to use Proxies and IP spoofing ( pay closer to attention to Gadflies ). I don't have a good answer, except to just ignore the obvious trolling posts, but I admit, I am not doing such a good job of that myself.
I have turned to simply pointing out specific trollin maneuvers used hoping that other readers learn to recognize what is being done.
Yes, I do believe the topics are being deflected deliberately.
I believe even more that the total lack of respect for our host ( so openly put by our troll ) is inconscienable, and would have been a banning offense anywhere else. ( still don't believe that is the answer though ).
Education, information, and thick skins is the only thing that will get us through.

That, and the one REAL thing this site, and other like it HAVE accomplished .....
Bringing out information that otherwise would never see the light of day.
If nothing else, that is the good that is done.

Banning this one won't really help. It registered under a handful of names, and could just continue to do that. What it wants is attention. So starve it.

I agree with ShadowMom. Put the troll on a diet and that ends the problem. Trolls need attention, without it they wither away. It has been rare to actually see a good successful troll but have run into a few exceptions that were actually very good at trolling. You know they are good when members ask to let them back in, knowing they are a troll. Such cases are so rare as to not be a concern for the average troll. From what I have read so far, this troll isn't worth recognising as it lacks the skill to be a truely capable troll.

The problem is it comes under several different names--but not Raid, and most definitely not our Mroop. But Gadfly, Gadflies, Loadwarrior, ShadowMomsShadow, or whatever HE wants to call himself on any given day is most definitely a troll. And not a very literate one, just one who wishes to stir up ill feeling among the many people who post here. So ignore him, and he will fade away...for a while. I suspect this is someone with an axe to grind, perhaps with leflaw. Fine. Let him take it up with leflaw.

I don't know, prehaps my defination of a troll doesn't always fit others defination. I have never considered mroop a troll. There have been times when I have argued for mroop, simply because mroop does not fit the mold of troll. Nor from what I read of of Raid. It is one thing to have an opinion and argue facts supporting those opinions, no matter if they are the popular trend or theme within a forum or blog.

It is quite another to go off on tangent merely to try and spark dissention and mayhem among members without the need to use facts in support of ones' stance or reason to support ones' opinion.

I don't see many reasons for a person to Troll unless they're a flaming moron, or they are trying to stirr people up because they work for an opposing website, such as a competitor, or in this case, the organization being boycotted. Maybe the RIAA has their own trolls? They hire everything else, maybe they hire trolls too? That's just a question I thought I would throw out there. These people are desperate to retain their power at any means neccessary, and a dog backed into a corner is capable of doing anything.

A Troll, here or on any board, is indeed a pest and it does seem their main purpose is to be disruptive.

Like an obnoxious asshole at a party, the best antidote for the troll infection is total, absolute ignoring of every comment they make.

I've been on boards or chat rooms in the distant , distant past (was it AOL?) where the ability existed to put someone on "IGNORE" so their comments are not even seen by you.

I think that such a technological function is very good for troll eradication.

"The problem is it comes under several different names--but not Raid "

I look at the timing.
Raid vanished from posting when Gadfly appeared. Right at that time was when I first called Raid out for the Troll he is.
The intentional use of an old Usenet term for Trolls, Writing styles not much different.
Too many coincidences.
Raid is a well practiced, experienced, almost professional troll. He prepared ahead of time for this.
Nope can't prove it.
Doesn't matter.
I am certain of it.

independentmusician states,

"Not to say that we should allow vulgar disruptive name-calling and other threatening BS to occur, or anything like that."

"but let's all have a civil modicum of TOLERANCE for the VIEWS and OPINIONS being expressed that do differ from what WE ourselves believe in. "

Mike you seem like a nice enough guy and a person here who knows something about music (post 1980's) one who can separate The Meatpuppets from the meatheads and really believes in this boycott-riaa thing.

So I have to tell you that you were right to opening the thread to all comers despite grumbings from our Left leaning friends here at this website. A true revolution in the music world is going to take a coming together of all walks of life in order for something like this to work. If our Constitution and Bill Of Rights are a measuring stick, it wasn't a select few lawyers who made this great document happen, but common folks, farmers, business men, all fringes of society.

You as moderator Mike should be protecting the rights of those who post here and not join in to the namecalling,threats, and outright profanity being used. One who has a true (and I don't mean mroop) opposing viewpoint(more along the lines of a compmore) should not have to deal with calls of trolls, Nazi's, freepers, and Racists because they refuse to walk in step with other members. Not that I can't defend myself because after all I have made fools out of almost each and every one of you's. But what of those who are not so lucky? Are they going to be ganged up on too without you stepping in Mike based only on the fact that these perpetrators are your buds? Where is the honor in that?

After all this isn't Jonestown and all of us shouldn't have to be subject to swallow the kool-ad.

Remember it's the RIAA that's lacking in diversity. Joining them in this grave error only sets one up for the same failures.

And Shadowmom, When you reach legend status like myself and GOPSweetie and are pulling in 500 threads based only on that fact that people can't wait to see what you'll say and do next, then we can talk. (Problem is I can't speak your Lefty language)

Don't fall into the trap Mike you're on the right track. Bringing members from all corners of the Internet can only improve what you're trying to do here. Not doing so you're only "F-Uing" youself.

"And Shadowmom, When you reach legend status like myself and GOPSweetie and are pulling in 500 threads based only on that fact that people can't wait to see what you'll say and do next, then we can talk. "

Professional trolls DO exist.

"Are they going to be ganged up on too without you stepping in Mike based only on the fact that these perpetrators are your buds? Where is the honor in that? "

As honorable as deliberate Threadjacking, and other attempts to simply destroy the site, but you already know that.

"So I have to tell you that you were right to opening the thread to all comers despite grumbings from our Left leaning friends here at this website."

Read careully.
No one in this thread is advocating banning or blocking out anyone.

I am not buying it, Raid.
( BTW, accusing site members of gangbanging is also classic trolling technique ).

Raid, you're not educating, adding , or contributing. You're only trying to destroy. won't work. We'll handle you just fine.
I'll keep up the thread with the reasonable .. but this ones on iggy from here out.

Dreddsnik of course prides himself on having all the answers here and what's even more humorous is the fact he seems to think of himself as somekind of "philosopher".

Dreddsnik has give us such Socratic methods the likes of.........

"We believe only what we choose. A choice, however, is impossible without the whole truth entirely visible. When presented with the WHOLE truth, most of us would, really, choose a peaceful, harmonius path.
That's the problem.
Those that would use us against each."

Now for those who study Philosophy understand it's not the answers that one gets that's the key, but it's the questions one asks.

As for the meanings Dreddsnik was trying to express with this sliver of enlightenment and the questions one could only ask is....

What the F.ck????

When I mention the fact you're all "gangbanging" (Oh! how gangster and MTV Generation) I do so not to complain but to mock. Mock the fact it takes ten of you to combat me and still all of you do poorly.

Just to make note of that.

"Raid vanished from posting when Gadfly appeared. Right at that time was when I first called Raid out for the Troll he is.
The intentional use of an old Usenet term for Trolls, Writing styles not much different.
Too many coincidences."

Sorry, but you're full of it. If you don't like someone then you label them a troll. How many times have you called me a troll and an industry shill and you claim I work for the RIAA. It's all a bunch of lies and a smear tactic that you use when you can't debate on the merits. Weak.

Gadfly, don't pride yourself so early you haven't heard what I have to say yet but gotta run for now and no I'm not running away it's a thing called life you have to deal with first I'll be back.

No,

What is weak is you blaming somebody else for my work. If you look over my posts you will see I refrain from namecalling and using profanity and troll is not a word I'd use if I would. As for you on the side of the RIAA, I wouldn't worry about it to much because even if you are token viewpointer, You're still welcome here with such things as.....

"The problem is it comes under several different names--but not Raid, and most definitely not "our" Mroop."

"TOLERANCE" for some it seems Namecalling and cursing for others..So don't worry mroop no matter how far you tilt to the RIAA, you always have a home here Buddy.

"It's all a bunch of lies and a smear tactic that you use when you can't debate on the merits. Weak. "

Sort of like modifying "quotes" and posting them as fact. Using badgering and namecalling when you're point falls flat and you can no longer debate on merits. That's usually when you go to "bullying". Yup, pretty weak.

"Sorry, but you're full of it. If you don't like someone then you label them a troll. "
Well, he IS
Perfect fit for the definition.
I don't like you, and your not a troll.
Just a "butthead".

He's not fooling anyone. Mroop, 'cept maybe you.
Raid and Gadly are one and the same.
And it looks like he's got his own pet sheep. Does he "stump" you too, Mroppsie

Raid gives me the creeps. Didn't he take credit for writing the Melissa virus? and giving away copies of RIAA music?

Gadfly: he flew away. He's got to get ready for his gig tonight.

Yes. Here's the post: "A member of the VX group Slam and one of the loudest, most unrepentant coders on the Net, RAiD is the kind of virus writer who makes antivirus workers - and often other virus writers - gnash their teeth in frustation. He's the guy who pops into the mind of PC users as they nervously scan their disks with AV software. Not only does he write viruses with malicious payloads, he also takes a fairly obvious measure of delight in watching them spread." http://news.dmusic.com/article/17839

"Raid gives me the creeps. Didn't he take credit for writing the Melissa virus? and giving away copies of RIAA music? "

That's the neat thing about the internet Lachatte. Our RaidHHI can claim whatever he likes. He can be whoever he wants, be it a "badass virus coder " or the King of oompoppamaumau. No one can REALLY prove otherwise. That's why he's on "iggy".
I won't be responding to Mroop anymore either unless it's "topical" The " I'm smarter than you, so deal with it " crap has gone on too long.
The "I can insult you better" is tiresome as well.
Gadfly and Raid are the same.

( btw sorry for the "cheap shot" Mroop, yup you got to me again. )

Let me just say this the topic to this thread refers to FU = Fair use the term for that is "WordNet (r) 2.0"
fair use
n : the conditions under which you can use material that is
copyrighted by someone else without paying royalties.
Fair use is very much alive and well the open source movement bases itself on that frame of mind hence the licence GPL( general public licence) allows you the right to such works without hassle.

Please try
Open sourc software, Independent music, Independent movies you might be glad you did.

Version 2.0 of the updated list of just who "is" the Gadfly is as follows...

GadfliesDiscourse
GOPSweetie
GOPSweetie2004
George W Bush
Rightlaw
Shadowmomshadow
Musican X
Kneo24
CodeWarrior
Loadwarrior
Carl Rove
Freeper#1
Troll
AdministratorUnknown
Rightwingnutjob
PatientZero
SweetNeoCon
Male
Female
butthead
illiterate

And

RaidTripleH or whatever the heck the guys name is...

Please,Feel free in the future to update the list at your discretion.

Now I understand that this is "not" an open thread and will try to refrain from posting any further. Like Mike stated, I "do" have common courtesy not to take up anymore of the meaningful topics. Because despite popular belief, I am against the RIAA.

As for the witchhunt you people are intent on pursuing, I hope some poor innocent "Shmoo" isn't going to be hurt in the process. No offense Mike...

Now as I leave this thread for good...Please! talk amongst yourselves.

One more note to all you Sociology majors out there, notice the tactics that the Leftwing use when civil discourse fails.

1-They try to make you out to be some kind of racist.

2-If that fails there's always Plan B and that's to paint a person as crazy, insane and the like...

3-Now when that doesn't cut it there's always the method of gangpiling on the Righty to create confusion and muddle the thought process. One can see such examples on shows like Hardball.

4-When all else fails there's always the last standby, to make the opposing viewpointer seem stupid, dense, dim, obtuse, foolish, unintelligent, dullard.

Now children that ends our Lesson today run along....

Let me just say this
you give yourself a pat on the back and still try to put people down, also you have not really given people here something sincere in your post to think otherwise.

Gadfly wrote: "---after all, I have made fools out of almost each and every one of you."
"---the fact it takes ten of you to combat me and still all of you do poorly."

Dreddsnik wrote: "You give yourself a pat on the back and still try to put people down---"


Dear Gadfly,
In a nutshell, you're a nut case.
Give it up.

grumpygeezer September 7, 2003 @ 4:26 PM

"Well, I just wonder how long it will be before the Bill of Rights is put through a shredder."

MMM Yeah and this guy is calling me a nutcase.

grumpy, when not asleep at the switch why don't you give boycott what you do best. And that's sucking up to fellow members. You know what I mean....Good point here, great point there...

Hey you're an old geezer per say....How about taking up a hobbie?Maybe get on the Nazi fetish? Jump Boots and Horsewhip that would make Marv Albert cringe perhaps...Partner up with Codewarrior, he'll fill you in on the rest.

But gents don't do anything I wouldn't do.....!!

"Well, I just wonder how long it will be before the Bill of Rights is put through a shredder."

I wonder too. Probably when the neocons that you coddle get a chance to declare martial law.

"Hey you're an old geezer per se....How about taking up a hobby?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. How about YOU taking up a hobby, elsewhere besides making a nuisance of yourself on this website, jerk.

mmm good come back....and the continued namecalling displays how conceptively bankrupt certain individuals are...

Moderators feel free to jump in anytime. LOL Not that "I" need any help.

"mmm, good come-back....and the continued namecalling displays how conceptively bankrupt certain individuals are..."

Thanks, except I'm conceptively replete with an abundance of name-calling skills and put-downs; no bankruptcy on that account.
Or, could you possibly be implying a comparative bankruptcy of social skills, or nurturing attributes, or civility? In that case, I'd have a hard time rivaling your attainment level for that distinction.

"Maybe get on the Nazi fetish?"

Does Godwin's Law kick in now?

Godwin's Law doesn't usually close down threads, of course.
There is a corollary which roughly states that the invocation of Nazi/Hitler reduces the information content of the thread to an insignificant level.

(See Godwin's Law page from EFF.org)

Good Lord even I'm bored after all that.
Godwin's Law huh? And here was me just making vague reference to one getting all "dressed up" in some kind of roleplaying same-sex Fascist S&M slobberknocker in the hopes of at the very lest excite somebody of advanced age or at the very most end one's obvious erectile dysfunction.

What was I thinking?

"What was I thinking?"

Likely you were thinking dorky thoughts ...the kind that emanate from a rather "conceptively bankrupt individual".
Touche!

Dreddsnik,

" He's not fooling anyone. Mroop, 'cept maybe you.
Raid and Gadly are one and the same.
And it looks like he's got his own pet sheep. Does he "stump" you too, Mroppsie "

Are you for real dude? You really think I'm somebody else? You can check me out man, I can prove who I claim to be. No fuckin problem. I've already been "outed" as it were as a virus writer (ex thanks) by Virus Bulletin several years ago. This nick is tied to my real name, so fuck it. I have no worries. I live around 100 miles or so from Independent, If you'd like, I can meet him in person, show him my fuckin license, give him a copy of the rolling stones magazine, and source code to my viruses (incidently, if you ever looked, I didn't release much source; so if I wasn't really me, I couldn't give you the sources, now could I genius?)

I can also verify the claims of HHI, complete fucking album and movie lists, full explanation, our templates, the source code to our modded ftp server, whatever else he needs.

Your just going to have to deal with me Dreddsnik, I'm no Troll. I'm just an old school Hacker from yesteryear.

Lachatte,

"Raid gives me the creeps."

Sorry. What makes you feel this way? I haven't done virus work in years.

"Didn't he take credit for writing the Melissa virus?"

No. My friend VicodenES did that (David Smith). His virus, I had nothing to do with it. My only aspect of the entire thing was some web space I setup for codebreakers, I didn't know at the time they intended to host his virus.

"and giving away copies of RIAA music?"

Yes, That I do. I'm with a ripping group. One of it's co-founders. So?

It might surprise you to know, I'm pretty good with removing viruses/malware without killing your installation, programs and/or documents. I'm not entirely a bad guy. At one point, i wrote some pretty rotten code. I don't do that anymore.

Matter of fact, I've spent the last 4 weekends (as time allows) working on a new spyware removal tool for work. It's also useful for end-users who are having trouble removing some pesky malware.

That reminds me, Speaking of trolls... Dreddsnik,

I'm using a charter cable modem presently. The IP rarely changes on it. If we have a lightening storm or power the server down, it might assign us a new IP; but it usually gives us our old one back. Why don't you have Independent check the IP of myself, and the other persons you accuse me of being? If you have any other questions or tests I'd have to pass, I'm interested.

It was laughable to be called a Troll by you, and it's funny as hell to be seen as other people, especially when that can be settled easily enough. I suppose once that's settled, then I can deal with your ignorant Troll remarks better.

Uhh... may I ask why the open thread on fair use has circa 40 posts on trolls?

No.

Hey grumpy! Welcome back! Good to see you posting around these parts again! What's it been? Like two years! As you can see ... not much has changed. Hehe.

"Your just going to have to deal with me Dreddsnik, I'm no Troll. I'm just an old school Hacker from yesteryear."

Thanks for clearing that up RaidHHI. The fools here think just because a person has an opposing viewpoint different from their own, they all think it "must" be coming from one person. I'm sure Mike and Larry know better the IP'S from mroop, RaidHHI, and myself are all different. Even mroop and myself have gone at it at one point. Who knows what mroop's beef is, RaidHHI comes at you from the computer-music point of view and me, I just can't stand the politics and mudsligging.

They just can't all take the fact people see their Hypocrisy and are calling them on it. Funny how they all throw the word troll around...when the lot of them are under attack, they all gather around each other like a family of mischievous dwarfs in some cave coming to each others defense...

"I just can't stand the politics and mudsligging.
(sic)"

You revel in it.

My God do you have to spell out each and every little thing to avoid the "gotcha" cheapshot......

Very well.

I just can't stand the Leftwing politics and mudsligging.

"Hey grumpy! Welcome back! Good to see you posting around these parts again! What's it been? Like two years! As you can see ... not much has changed. Hehe. "

Thanks, kyodylee!
You're right; in many respects, not much has changed. Instead of Keo, it appears we've got a few other posters of similar ilk to take his/her place, so to speak.


"I'm just an old school Hacker from yesteryear."

"I'm sure Mike and Larry know better; the IP's from mroop, RaidHHI, and myself are all different."

Please explain to me how it isn't possible for a person to have, say, two computers, each with a different designated number, as well as having different usernames, of course.
Am I missing something in a sequence of logic here?
And don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to imply that mroop posts under any different username.
(I would not tend to have that much confidence about RAID or Gadfly, PARTICULARLY Gadfly!)


"I just can't stand the Leftwing politics and mudslinging."

Hmm. And is that primarily because it isn't Rightwing politics and Rightwing mudslinging?

"Funny how they all throw the word troll around...when the lot of them are under attack . . ."

Funny or not, IF the shoe fits, wear it.

Say, kyodylee, since I missed out on so much during all this time, can you tell me how things transpired in regards to Keo and Kneo24?
Thanks.

Sheesh people. Get a grip.

RaidHHI is who he says he is. I've been conversing with him on/off for over two years now. I know his real name, he has never hidden it from me. I know what HHI stands for too. I've connected to his FTP server in the past and downloaded mp3s from it. I only got music, never a virus. He is not a troll nor is he anyone other than who he says he is.

He has been a member here longer than most of you ... since January 21, 2003. He has contributed news articles here and his own perspective/insight. Mostly, he lurked and posted occasionally, he has recently become more active and vocal.

You may not agree with his opinions ... fine. But the paranoia on this site is palatable.

Grumpy, I reposted this from another thread. I told them they need to read it 3 times, so that it sinks into their dimwitted skulls. I do not currently know if your a dimwit as well, so I will not call you one for the time being.

"Funny or not, IF the shoe fits, wear it."

Read the post, again, and again until you understand that I am just me, I'm no-one else, I have no other accounts here. Just this one.

"Please explain to me how it isn't possible for a person to have, say, two computers, each with a different designated number, as well as having different usernames, of course.
Am I missing something in a sequence of logic here?"

It's entirely possible, But I've already told you, Our ISP rarely resets our IP, it's damn near static. I'm also behind a workLAN, not my homes computers; no Inet at home. Since i'm doing this from work, behind the lan, it's a bit difficult to change my IP on a whim to pretend to be somebody else.

I've been posting to this site for a few months from probably the same IP; We really do not get new ones often. Previous to that, My posting IP was the same as my ftp server, and kyodokee can vouch for that, he's been on it.

Good Day!

Acknowledged.
Thanks for the info.