The following article is an example of some of the fuss being kicked up. I wanted to highlight only the "censorship of a musician's words" aspect of the story, but I know that there is no way to keep all kinds of off-topic stuff from creeping in when talking about Katrina... So, if you must, do your worst HERE (and let's try to keep the other threads on-topic and "about the music!")

Appearing two-thirds through the program, he claimed " George Bush doesn't care about black people" and said America is set up "to help the poor, the black people, the less well-off as slow as possible."

The show, simulcast from New York on NBC, MSNBC, CNBC and Pax, was aired live to the East Coast, enabling the Grammy-winning rapper's outburst to go out uncensored.

There was a several-second tape delay, but the person in charge "was instructed to listen for a curse word, and didn't realize (West) had gone off-script," said NBC spokeswoman Rebecca Marks.

West's comment about the president was cut from NBC's West Coast airing, which showed three hours later on tape.

The host was NBC News' Matt Lauer, who invited viewers to contribute to the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund by phone or on the Web. Some 18 presenters performed musical numbers or gave information on the tragedy's huge scope.

Louisiana native Tim McGraw teared up as he told Lauer, "I know the citizens that weren't affected by this directly are gonna stand up and do good things for people." He sang two songs, then became the first of the evening's stars to sign a Gibson Les Paul Special guitar to be auditioned online.

Faith Hill, a Mississippi native, sang "There Will Come a Time," with the inspiring lyrics, "The darkness will be gone, the weak shall be strong. Hold on to your faith."

New Orleans son Aaron Neville performed Randy Newman's soulful "Louisiana 1927" with the memorable chorus, "they're trying to wash us away, they're trying to wash us away."

New York governor George Pataki presented the Red Cross with a check for $2.5 million and promised, "This great state will do far more."

"In terms of property damage," said actress Hilary Swank, "the estimate is at least $26 billion in insured losses and perhaps twice that in uninsured losses over a 90,000-square-mile area — approximately the size of Kansas."

Other speakers included Lindsay Lohan, Eric LaSalle, Glenn Close, Richard Gere, John Goodman and Leonardo DiCaprio.

Comedian Mike Myers was paired with West for a 90-second segment that began with Myers speaking of Katrina's devastation. Then, to Myers' evident surprise, West began a rant by saying, "I hate the way they portray us in the media. If you see a black family, it says they're looting. See a white family, it says they're looking for food."

While allowing that "the Red Cross is doing everything they can," West — who delivered an emotional outburst at the American Music Awards after he was snubbed for an award — declared that government authorities are intentionally dragging their feet on aid to the Gulf Coast. Without getting specific, he added, "They've given them permission to go down and shoot us."

After he stated, "George Bush doesn't care about black people," the camera cut away to comedian Chris Tucker.

Concluding the hour a few minutes later, Lauer noted that "emotions in this country right now are running very high. Sometimes that emotion is translated into inspiration, sometimes into criticism. We've heard some of that tonight. But it's still part of the American way of life."

Then the entire ensemble performed "When the Saints Go Marching In."

In a statement, NBC said, "Kanye West departed from the scripted comments that were prepared for him, and his opinions in no way represent the views of the networks.

"It would be most unfortunate," the statement continued, "if the efforts of the artists who participated tonight and the generosity of millions of Americans who are helping those in need are overshadowed by one person's opinion."

Friday's program was the first of several TV benefits planned through next weekend.

NBC and the five other major commercial broadcast networks, along with PBS, plan to unite next Friday for a special. The same night, BET will air a benefit. And on Saturday, Sept. 10, the MTV networks will air a special.

Folks, feel free to "duke it out" here, but ONLY here about the off-topic hot button issues regarding Katrina while at Boycott-Riaa!

(Call this thread the "damage control drain" if you must.)

I think this is an even worse disaster/occurance than 9-11. I personally would like to see each of us do something to HELP the folks down there who are in need NOW than to bitch at each other over "who's fault" it is.

(MY 2 cents.)

Open Topic means well Open Topics

So I figure movies and music play a part here so for fun what would happen if Michael Moore asked us to play in one of his movies will call

Fahrenheit boycott-riaa 911

Of course our film will need a host of character actors so why don't we plug our members into supporting roles shall we...

Michael Moore could be played by CodeWarrior based simply on his Leftwing satire, snide sarcasm and smirking observations.

Leftlaw could play the part of millionaire George Soros founder and proprietor of the website moveon.org

Shadowmom's part would be that of angry liberal feminist Janeane Garofalo, Yeah Shadow I knew you'd be bucking for that part.

Vulgar foulmouthed Senator Ted Kennedy's part will be played by pinemikey

Mike Farrell will be played by gdZiemann who both seem the share in having that cheesy facial hair. Farrell for his part making us endure such images during most of his MASH stint

captdunsel I didn't forget you!!!! You will play the part of Sean Penn who seeks to scare the Be-Jesus out of the Rightwing but in the end is nothing more than hotair.

awehr can play Al Frankin because, well frankly he thinks he "is" Al Frankin

Whistleblower Richard Clark will be played by CherishTruth for his knack for tattling.

autodidact can be Bill Maher because, well nobody else wanted the part.

carla60626 will be Rosie O'Donnell because when I think carla, I see Rosie.

mroop would play George W Bush for the fact at the very lest he's the only token opposite viewpoint here.

And what of the movie itself? Plenty of Leftwing rants, paranoia, mudslinging,misleading info, and the kind of caricature you find irritating at the very lest at a Cindy Sheehan rally, or at the very most, a Senator Paul Wellstone funeral. Woops and hollers come standard.

In the end your best bet is to save your money and wait for the movie on the Swift Boat guys and how they single handedly sunk the Kerry campaign ship.

What about me? ...or, tomsong, or Dredsnik, or dozens of others???

(Please say "George Carlin" in my case!)

-------

lol, SOME of the people you just tried to insult may actually take it all as a compliment.

------

GadflyDiscourse, many of our "regulars"
(and I admit, SELF INCLUDED) might have leftwards leaning politics, but I promise you and all of our readers that there has never been any intention to present ourselves as a "left-wing" website.

You, or any "right-wingers" are much more than welcome to join us in our fight against the RIAA.

...Or, do you want to "simplify" and
turn the fight over music culture into nothing but another People vs
the Cartels "left/right" thing.

Ok, you "GOPSweetie" wannabe, if you wanna be selfish, go ahead and "play it that way" when you post.

You want to try to steal half our readers/membership by insisting Boycott-Riaa is really nothing more than some "left-wing" conspiracy?

GO AHEAD AND TRY!

(But you will only turn off those here who lean to the "right" who will just as easily see that you are being devisive and not constructive to the Boycott-Riaa effort.)

Play your games all you want.

Idiots should be allowed to be idiots. (You are NOT doing your party/credo/philosophy/side any favors by playing the fool.)

(BTW, Gadfly...

You better stay ON-TOPIC in the regular day-to-day threads here. THIS thread is a "special case" that I am giving us all (self included) to VENT...

(The "In The News" threads are also ok for anything "off-topic", but only to a certain breaking point.)

------------

But if I catch you or anyone else "over-doing it" in the roll as a troll in our other threads...

(Yeah, go ahead and gloat! You just accomplished what you set out to do and pissed me off because you personally attacked good friends of mine!)

But you fucking TROLLS better take ME on in these "open" threads instead of the IMPORTANT ones where we are talking/learning/discussing/teaching the things about how to improve our culture's music!

I promise, I WILL STAND IN THE WAY of all trolls. I don't give a damn if you vote my way, another way, or the highway.

Boycott-Riaa is a place for the MUSIC issues. Folks, you are all invited to be yourself and add "pepper and spice" to your posts with your own political/philisophical views.

But I can't STAND it when somebody is just trying to be a damn dick to deliberately piss us off.

...and, if you think Boycott-Riaa issues are left vs right, or democrat vs republican...

(Or even, as Gadfly tried to suggest in another thread, a "black vs white" ...yes, a RACE issue...)

If you believe all that,
...then YOU are a an IDIOT!

I'm glad Fats Domino has found shelter from the muddy waters. And I pray for all those still seeking shelter. Nawlins gave birth to the blues, jazz,R&B and rocknroll. It is home to the only truly unique American music.

To reiterate Nagin, "BushCo and FEMA get you damn asses down here. It's been five damn days here, people are dyin and where the fuck are you anyways?"

The National Guard are doing their best but they have no leadership. New Orleans was one of the music capitols of the world and we should be saddened at its destruction.
The likes of it may never be seen in our lifetime.

And now,
for some reason no one has been able to explain yet, evacuation from the Superdome has stopped, Our ABC affiliate claims it may not restart until TOMORROW. No reason given yet. WTF ??

As for the movie thing ??
GadflyDiscourse represented by "Gollum".
Sneaky, deceitful, slinging poo from dark hidey holes

Dred... I watched Bill Weir (GMA) ask a guy from FEMA why the evacuation was stopped. He wouldn't answer the question.

GladflyIntercourse is more of a Rovian

It's either "damage control troll"

...or

"whip from within"

(I don't like sneaky manipulation from either side.)

tomsong, where are you? We need some sanity!

(we need YOU to be sane... and stop your worries about the kids.

The kids will be alright!)

GoofyDiscourse, can I be Dr.Strangelove?
Please?

Sorry group, couldn't resist.

it's the lest you can do

"Dred... I watched Bill Weir (GMA) ask a guy from FEMA why the evacuation was stopped. He wouldn't answer the question."

Hmm, I have a theory.
When the Pres flies somewhere, doesn't the arispace become a "no fly zone" for anyone else ?
That would 'splain why choppers and such would go away, but not the buses.
Maybe they are clearing ANY non military personnel. That may also explain the silence.
It's good he needs to visit and all that but ... If it were me ( not that it ever would be ) ... I would still go but INSIST that rescue efforts continue. The stranded thousands mean more than my "personal safety". If that can't be done, than just don't go.

FEMA chief Brown: We learned about that (Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need. (See video of CNN asking why FEMA is clueless about conditions -- 2:11)

Mayor Nagin: The convention center is unsanitary and unsafe, and we are running out of supplies for the 15,000 to 20,000 people. (Hear Nagin's angry demand for soldiers. 1:04)
CNN Producer Kim Segal: It was chaos. There was nobody there, nobody in charge. And there was nobody giving even water. The children, you should see them, they're all just in tears. There are sick people. We saw... people who are dying in front of you.

Evacuee Raymond Cooper: Sir, you've got about 3,000 people here in this -- in the Convention Center right now. They're hungry. Don't have any food. We were told two-and-a-half days ago to make our way to the Superdome or the Convention Center by our mayor. And which when we got here, was no one to tell us what to do, no one to direct us, no authority figure.


Uncollected corpses

Brown: That's not been reported to me, so I'm not going to comment. Until I actually get a report from my teams that say, "We have bodies located here or there," I'm just not going to speculate.

Segal: We saw one body. A person is in a wheelchair and someone had pushed (her) off to the side and draped just like a blanket over this person in the wheelchair. And then there is another body next to that. There were others they were willing to show us. ( See CNN report, 'People are dying in front of us' -- 4:36 )

Evacuee Cooper: They had a couple of policemen out here, sir, about six or seven policemen told me directly, when I went to tell them, hey, man, you got bodies in there. You got two old ladies that just passed, just had died, people dragging the bodies into little corners. One guy -- that's how I found out. The guy had actually, hey, man, anybody sleeping over here? I'm like, no. He dragged two bodies in there. Now you just -- I just found out there was a lady and an old man, the lady went to nudge him. He's dead.


Hospital evacuations

Brown: I've just learned today that we ... are in the process of completing the evacuations of the hospitals, that those are going very well.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta: It's gruesome. I guess that is the best word for it. If you think about a hospital, for example, the morgue is in the basement, and the basement is completely flooded. So you can just imagine the scene down there. But when patients die in the hospital, there is no place to put them, so they're in the stairwells. It is one of the most unbelievable situations I've seen as a doctor, certainly as a journalist as well. There is no electricity. There is no water. There's over 200 patients still here remaining. ...We found our way in through a chopper and had to land at a landing strip and then take a boat. And it is exactly ... where the boat was traveling where the snipers opened fire yesterday, halting all the evacuations. ( Watch the video report of corpses stacked in stairwells -- 4:45 )

Dr. Matthew Bellew, Charity Hospital: We still have 200 patients in this hospital, many of them needing care that they just can't get. The conditions are such that it's very dangerous for the patients. Just about all the patients in our services had fevers. Our toilets are overflowing. They are filled with stool and urine. And the smell, if you can imagine, is so bad, you know, many of us had gagging and some people even threw up. It's pretty rough.(Mayor's video: Armed addicts fighting for a fix -- 1:03)


Violence and civil unrest

Brown: I've had no reports of unrest, if the connotation of the word unrest means that people are beginning to riot, or you know, they're banging on walls and screaming and hollering or burning tires or whatever. I've had no reports of that.

CNN's Chris Lawrence: From here and from talking to the police officers, they're losing control of the city. We're now standing on the roof of one of the police stations. The police officers came by and told us in very, very strong terms it wasn't safe to be out on the street. (Watch the video report on explosions and gunfire -- 2:12

Hmm, thats strange,
3 guys in black suits are knocking at my .

Being "leftwing" or "rightwing" or even "chicken winged"...whoopdee ding. I figure that whole concept came from one side calling the other one of the terms..and then of course the other retaliating by call the other side the opposite. Sounds like name calling and what children to do.

Right or leftwing is descriptive of being extreme either way. I see us at this forum to be neither. We are in the middle of two sides...one that says,

"Listen to to our music...pay out the ass for it..and if you don't and try to download it, we'll sue the pants off you!"

The other side says,

"We'll download all the RIAA we want...sue us if you can find us!"

However our stand has always been, "Screw all of that , boycott the riaa products..don't buy them..don't download them either...go check out the independants"

Ya know ...like some kind of "Liberalistic democratic republicanary conservative"

"Ya know ...like some kind of "Liberalistic democratic republicanary conservative" "

LOL
I DARE someone to make a bite-size label out of THAT.

The birthplace of Jazz .... gone.

You will be sorely missed.

The buck stops with the chief executives. That means the governor of Louisiana and the president.

This is a test run for a terrorist attack, and we've failed the test. Ultimately, that has to be laid at Bush's door. It was his idea to add another layer of bureaucracy -- Homeland Security -- to the disaster management structure.

There must be coordination, planning, and training for problems of this type. Billions have been spent, a lot of it for nothing, because when push comes to shove, the left hand doesn't seem to know what the right hand is doing.

A lot of the criticism of Bush is overdone, and making this a racial issue is way off base IMO. This affected people of all races, and watching TV last night, on an NBC special interviewing those making their way out of the disaster area, this was obvious. The white people didn't get help any more than the black people. Anyone who says it is about race simply discredits himself or herself.

Yes, Bush is to be blamed. But the state and local authorities seemed just as much, if not more, confused and clueless. This is a bipartisan screw-up. Even liberal Tom Oliphant recognized that on the NewsHour last night.

I guess we needed this national spanking, because it proves how faulty the system is. Now in the next Presidential election, perhaps candidates will come forward with real plans for curing the red tape and paralysis that afflicts all government. Because this kind of incompetence is not confined to just FEMA, or Homeland Security. This kind of disorganization and ineffectiveness is widespread in the system, both at federal and state levels. I hope the people will finally wake up and hold the powers that be to account.

zxilton,

don't try to be SANE in the middle of a "crazy-fest"

You'll just get your ass killed!

(The nut-jobs will just claw thru ya to get at each other!)

I am gonna now try to take the same advice I just gave you

...and stand back away from it all and cry.

(folks, please be kind to one another.)

gw reacts quicker to capital punishment in taxass, than he does relief in the gulf !! what a mooorooon 10/4 flbgbt

"I guess we needed this national spanking, because it proves how faulty the system is. "

Stressing, .. THE SYSTEM. Not Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, Conservs, Neo-Cons, or WHATEVER label used to diminish a particular group for their thoughts. The SYSTEM that insists it must always be all of one or all of the other.
Nature calls, and calls hard, and the priority isn't the people in the middle, Political posturing, Grandstanding, Finger pointing, and Name calling is.

The birthplace of Jazz is gone, but something else can rise from it. What form it takes depends on how those higher up on the food chain choose to proceed from here. To try to make amends for the mistakes of the week, or continue a strangely cavalier attitude towards our OWN CITIZENS in this.

"This is a test run for a terrorist attack, and we've failed the test. "

Yup this is a test run, not JUST for a terrorist attack though. There was another "test" opportunity.

"Will our military and national guard forces fire on American brothers and sisters, because they are ordered to ?? "

A pretty significant test, regardless of political party affiliation.

There is a major fire happening on or around some wharfs? or warehouses? Would that keep the buses from rolling? Maybe there are some toxic fumes that they have to stay clear of?

It might ... why won't anyone say though ? Don't those stranded deserve to know whats going on, at the very least ?
Why the "Stonewalling" ?

Well, there is so much going on down there, I think if you had to stop and explain to people every time there is change for course of action, it would take up a lot of valuable time...I imagine right now, there is a lot of "flying by the seat of one pants" stuff going on....situations changing all the time around you. Imagine having hundreds of people all wanting to talk to you at the same time?

Also possible.
Only time will tell.
At least one more day for those stranded ( supposedly, evacuations won't continure 'til tomorrow ).
Some of them just don't have that much time anymore.

And of course there is the old, "so and so said this", and it gets passed down the line and by the time the 400th person gets the info, it's not the same message that it started out to be, so you'd have so much conflicting information, that would really cause mass confusion.

I agree, time is running short. It's a horrendous problem.

( Still thinks it's an up and coming Bush Inc. photo-op session, we'll see what happens )

Speaking of time:
Too much valuable time (the upper eschelons in the Administration had available) was squandered beginning on about this past Tuesday. But I'm not confident any investigation would be thorough enough to determine actually why, any more than the investigations regarding JFK's assassination or the whole story behind 9/11.
I lost respect for our government many years ago.

(Still thinks it's an up and coming Bush Inc. photo-op session, we'll see what happens.)

It worked well after 9/11, didn't it? His political fuel supply needs an infusion about now.

"Speaking of the devil" (Dubya), has anyone read about how some months back he nixed an appropriation of funds that would have been designated to strengthen the levee system around N.O.?
Interesting.

Yes, I did.
I have also read all the other Bush did this - Clinton did that, Repubs did this, Dems did that threads until my eyes started spinning.
Like I said,
It's not them, it is the entire system that INSISTS on one, the other or nothing. In the meantime, while the finger pointing and mugging for the cameras happens, no one is helped.
They are still stranded.
The "I told you so" mentality is empowering for some, but serves no purpose.
Yeah, Bush screwed up then. What he does now COULD help make up for it.
Doesn't look like that is going to happen.

(Here's just a sampling of what I was referring to)

August 31, 2005

In June 2005 the New Orleans district of the US Army Corps of Engineers absorbed a record $71.2 million reduction in federal funding. This was an epic reduction for one fiscal year. A story from the Dolan Media news wire reported at the time that, "The cuts mean major hurricane and flood protection projects will not be awarded to local engineering firms. Also, a study to determine ways to protect the region from a Category 5 hurricane has been shelved for the time being."

Critics asked why there were not better plans for emergency disaster relief and why decades of repeated warnings about the potential for disaster on the levees were ignored. They accused the administration of diverting funds for maintenance of the levee system to homeland security programs and the Iraq war.

One of the main reasons New Orleans is so vulnerable to hurricanes is the gradual disappearance of the wetlands on the Gulf Coast that once stood as a natural buffer between the city and storms coming in from the water. The disappearance of those wetlands does not have the name of a political party or a particular administration attached to it. No one wants to play, "The Democrats did it," or, "It's all Reagan's fault." Many environmentalists will tell you more than a century's interference with the natural flow of the Mississippi is the root cause of the problem, cutting off the movement of alluvial soil to the river's delta.

But in addition to long-range consequences of long-term policies like letting the Corps of Engineers try to build a better river than nature, there are real short-term consequences, as well. It is a fact that the Clinton administration set some tough policies on wetlands, and it is a fact that the Bush administration repealed those policies - ordering federal agencies to stop protecting as many as 20 million acres of wetlands.

Last year, four environmental groups cooperated on a joint report showing the Bush administration's policies had allowed developers to drain thousands of acres of wetlands.

--------(snip!)

(comment: I think this is enough to show where I'm coming from on part of this background information.)

"It worked well after 9/11, didn't it? His political fuel supply needs an infusion about now."

I believe his approval rating is down to 41%. If I guessed right, and he shooed out the rescue teams just to poke his face in front of a camera, it just might go lower.

"Yeah, Bush screwed up then. What he does now COULD help make up for it."

Agreed, as long it's a change on his part, an on-going process that lasts longer than a mere temporary opportunity to regain some of his lost, ahem, political capital.
I'm not planning on holding my breath for too long.

Don't get me wrong.
I never supported Bush.
I didn't support Kerry either.
I didn't support Clinton either.

I haven't voted for anyone in the Big 2 parties since I was old enough to vote.
It just never seemed right to simply choose the lesser of 2 evils, rather than put my vote where I really believed it should go.

"I'm not planning on holding my breath for too long."

Me either.

Thanks for staying civil with me Mr. A.

P.S.
Nothing of what I wrote is to be construed as diluting my concern over (and my responisibility to contribute to the endeavor of) alleviating some of the "horrendous problems" being faced by the victims of this terrible tragedy.

gadflydiscourse

this is your best? you can't even come up with a meaningful insult?

for the record you still haven't pissed me off yet. you still haven't said anything new. you still haven't fooled anyone sweetie. and the best part is that the more you talk the more of you I see. you know what I'm looking for. let's hear the magic words.

"Thanks for staying civil with me, Mr. A."

You're welcome, although some might suggest it's easy for me to be civil toward someone who votes independendtly as I do.
Are you libertarian in your approach to government?

I think we all understand that.
I think we all are just trying to understand ( and take it all in ) the whole situation. It's not easy for any of us to take in ( whether or not you have family or friends that live in that area, like I do ).

independendtly = independently

"Are you libertarian in your approach to government?"

I guess thats the closest label one could find for me. I've never been real keen on the whole polical "labeling" thing.
It has a tendency to oversimplify ( and sometimes demean ) a persons beliefs. I don't really think anyone here can be categorized with a simple "label" correctly. All of us cross over party lines in many different ways.

Some of our posts are getting crossed up out of our intended sequence. Usually, that's a cue for me to drop out of the conversation for awhile and give a chance for things to get caught up.

-Appearing two-thirds through the program, he claimed " George Bush doesn't care about black people" and said America is set up "to help the poor, the black people, the less well-off as slow as possible.

Sorry to say it, but Kanye is right. Most of the people in New Orleans were at or below the poverty level and had no way of getting transportation out of town. There was ample time for officials to set up evacuations perhaps providing busses to those without rides. These people had no choice but to stick around hoping for the best.

The racial bias is obvious to me when pictures of Blacks retrieving food are labeled as "looters" and pictures of Whites have captions stating they "found" food. It IS a race issue and perhaps even moreso a poverty issue.

The media likes to portray those stranded as animals (the deplorable conditions of the superdome, shooting at rescue helicopters and such). It falls right in line with the history of racism in this country. I guess you have to actually be on the other side to understand it. There is NO WAY that those people would've been stranded there had they been majority White or financially well off. Although I've probably opened up pandora's box, I don't care. This country has turned a blind eye to racism & classism for far too long. It's about time people start speaking on it.

From Professor Hex, "What the terrorists have learned this week". Also see JY's note at Talking Points Memo:

"I have a question that no one has raised so far. Wouldn't part of any homeland security preparation be the handling of refugees? Virtually any serious terrorist attack (explosion, nuclear, biological) would entail a large number of displaced persons. Wasn't anything done along these lines? I would have thought we would have pre-positioned refugee resources (tents, MRE's, water purification, generators, emergency medical care) near major population centers in the event of mass exodus. Am I paranoid?"

Nope, not paranoid at all.

I just read this about the evacuations:
"At one point Friday, the evacuation was interrupted briefly when school buses rolled up so some 700 guests and employees from the Hyatt Hotel could move to the head of the evacuation line — much to the amazement of those who had been crammed in the stinking Superdome since last Sunday.

“How does this work? They (are) clean, they are dry, they get out ahead of us?” exclaimed Howard Blue, 22, who tried to get in their line. The National Guard blocked him as other guardsmen helped the well-dressed guests with their luggage.

The 700 had been trapped in the hotel, next to the Superdome, but conditions were considerably cleaner, even without running water, than the unsanitary crush inside the dome. The Hyatt was severely damaged by the storm. Every pane of glass on the riverside wall was blown out.

Mayor Ray Nagin has used the hotel as a base since it is across the street from city hall, and there were reports the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9175611/

There are obviously a lot of issues that come to mind.

"Vulgar foulmouthed Senator Ted Kennedy's part will be played by pinemikey"

Geez, I don't even drink or swear enough to live up to that rightwing Ted Kennedy stereotypical nonsense. Seeing as this dip doesn't even know me, he must have had a hard time trying to "typecast" me. After all that, he's still dead wrong. Well, ignorance from the ignorant.

More hit and run stuff to come, I suppose.

WASHINGTON - "Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck — a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard on Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard

Yeah, people like that tend to make a person wonder:
Do they also go to weblogs of predominantly conservative sites and (under a different username)play the role of a what would be called a liberal rascal there just to irritate them too? I can't help but wonder if that's how they get their jollies in life.
If that would be the case, then they really don't have a life in my book.

"....paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday."

That's the kind of crap that is so puzzling, and I want to add the word inexcusable.

Pinemikey, I'm ignoring his posts. He's an angry, hateful person. Love ya.

I think autodidact made an accurate assessment of the situation (above, 10:48 AM).

""Vulgar foulmouthed Senator Ted Kennedy's part will be played by pinemikey""

Hmm,
come to think of it, I really DON'T remember anytime you ever posted with a "foul mouth". A long time reader would know that.

Yeah, I'd say about 2003...

ROFL !!!!

Hey, I was reading the message boards at ABCNews.com and someone posted a link for this article.
"Iraq war keeps oil from terrorists, Bush says

August 31, 2005

BY JENNIFER LOVEN

CORONADO, Calif. -- President Bush on Tuesday answered growing anti-war protests with a fresh reason for American troops to continue fighting in Iraq: protection of the country's vast oil fields that he said would otherwise fall under the control of terrorist extremists.

Bush, a onetime oilman, has rejected charges that the war in Iraq is a struggle to control the nation's vast oil wealth.

But on Tuesday, Bush said the Iraqi oil industry, already suffering from sabotage and lost revenues, must not fall under the control of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida forces in Iraq led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi."
http://www.suntimes.com/output/iraq/cst-nws-ibush31.html

"but I promise you and all of our readers that there has never been any intention to present ourselves as a "left-wing" website."

Maybe not intentionally Shmoo but go ahead and have someone here support or take a moderate stance toward the republicans, Bush, or any conservitive issue and see what happens. woops, already done that.

Even though it's human nature it still appals me how people can blame misery and suffering from a natural disaster on someone else or turn it into a race issue. when ever we hurt we have to strike out at someone. guess it makes us feel better. Me, I feel better when I can help or see someone helped.

compmore

I agree whole heartedly with what you just stated..I know if I were in those peoples place, and miserable, it wouldn't have mattered how fast they would have gotten in, it wouldn't have been fast enough!

One woman (white) stated that she was stuck at that horrible convention center, no food, lights, water, air conditioning..it was just so inconvenient....well duh, I guess this lil' ole' hurricane was just inconvenient!

And by the way, it wouldn't have mattered if that had been a white, black or green woman's stupid complaint ..just the attitude in itself

Yes pepe, I would think she'd be thankful to be alive. I know I would.

compmore You got it!

autodidact 10:48 AM statement makes the most sense in all this. It's not biased either way and more or less explains what happed on the ground. Was there blame to go around with regards to every party involved? You bet there was. Of course it's not based on race. Whites and black alike were seen suffering under the 95 degree heat.

Only ones making it a race war is the media who at the very lest hope the humansuffering continues based on rating alone. I could see CNN and MSNBC getting off on the images of white on black fighting. Problem is not black or white but "AMERICAN" people showed to the whole world their bravado and dignity in the time of crisis. The same strength that was on display during 9-11.

autodidact, almost makes me feel bad for comparing you to Bill Maher.

"happened"

As for the other thread Indy made light of here it is........

"The only real people AWOL during the whole Gulfport ordeal were the Democratic Party leadership the likes of Mayor Ray Nagin, who last we heard was hiding in the Marriott trying to get his closest friends out of town ahead of suffering poor "folk" and Democrat Governor Kathleen Blanco who when also not hiding looks like a deer in the headlights. Not to mention Mary Landrieu who cut funding that would have prevented massive flooding. 60% of the police force who were pick by Ray Nagin more based on race rather than merits walked off their jobs or ran away that is.

More examples of Democrat Cut And Run statergy?

Don't look for the liberal media for answers though. Judging for CNN AND MSNBC, they're trying to start a race war. Blame whitty seems to be the order of the day.

Take heart though poor suffering people of the Big Eazy city I love. Word has it Rudy Giuliani is on the way.

On a music note, Diddy gave a million dollars. Wonder if he could spare it?"

So Indy what was it that ticked you off??
The fact that Mayor Ray Nagin hired based on race??? Come now if I have my history right what was the Left screaming about after 9-11 attacks?? Was it having Bin Laden's head on a pike? No No....It was the fact there wasn't enough "Black" Firemen.

Anyone can see who's side is obsessed about race and who's side is more worried about the health and wellbeing of the nation. Ray Nagin certainly fell off the radar huh?

Where is Shella Jackson and Maxine Waters during all this? No doubt waiting for the smoke to clear. I await their racebaiting when all is said and done.

"Me, I feel better when I can help or see someone helped."

Admirable trait indeed.
Sad to say, it's doubtful that the President you voted for shares the same noble cause.

From the Xymphora blogsite:

"Expect in the near future to be the announcement of billions of dollars of reconstruction contracts for Halliburton and Bechtel, thus proving that Bush really DOES care." (snicker)
Hmm, he cares...about furthering the cause of the family nest egg (the Carlyle Group).
"Disaster is another opportunity to make money, while trying to stop disaster is just a drain on public finances".... finances that are more urgently needed elsewhere (fighting the necessary war in Iraq, a crusade which eventually will have expended a grand total of $200 billion dollars when the end finally comes).

gee gadfly, for someone who really doesn't give a crap you sound awfully indignant about the suffering and hardship these people are enduring. it's touching really that your so upset about the city you love but have never been to. in fact I'm absolutely amazed that you are so concerned with the plight of the poor black people there seeing as you really don't care about them either. oh wait, I'm sorry, some of your best friends are black aren't they?

just wanted you to know I'm still here.

Some months ago the Bush administration diverted over 70 millions dollars, that should have gone for maintenance of N.O.'s levee system, to homeland security programs and the Iraq war.
And, recent adminstration policies had allowed developers to drain thousands of acres of wetlands on the Gulf Coast that once stood as a natural buffer between New Orleans and storms coming in from the water.

Those decisions had an impact.

"Race has always been the undercurrent of Louisiana politics. This disaster is one that was constructed out of racism, neglect and incompetence. Hurricane Katrina was the inevitable spark igniting the gasoline of cruelty and corruption. From the neighborhoods left most at risk, to the treatment of the refugees, to the the media portrayal of the victims, this disaster is shaped by race."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/090205R.shtml

"Sad to say, it's doubtful that the President you voted for shares the same noble cause."

One, I didn't vote for him. Just because I don't blame him for everything and hate him. (that's the same sort of sterotyping that created havoic on this site during the election)

second this isn't politics, it's humanity and he DOES care.

"...this isn't politics, it's humanity and he DOES care."

From what evidence do you attribute such milk of human kindness to him?
Inquisitive minds want to know.

"...go ahead and have someone here support or take a moderate stance toward the Republicans, Bush, or any conservative issue and see what happens. Whoops, already done that."

"...already done that"
Who's "already done that"? - you, right?

Just trying to clarify, not specifically chastising at this moment. . .

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion - no problem there.
But apparently you've found you'll be pushed at to justify it on a website like this.

Mr-anonymous yes me. I made the same mistake during the election that I'm not going to make here. I assumed most people here would want to look at all sides objectivly and debate the issues. I assumed that by trying to give a balanced perspective and denouce extremists bantering and name calling it would help. I was wrong. there's too much hate and personal ambiguity of a political nature here.

I'm not going to get into a political debate with you or anyone. if you can't see past the partisan political anger you have toward this man then you're as much of the problem as those conservitives who can't see past their political anger toward Kennedy and the like. A disaster like this doesn't need any monday morning quarterbacking from political extremists on either side. I believe he cares, I believe the mayor of New Orleans cares (who's a democrat) and I believe all of us as Americans care. its stupid and irresponsible to suggest that someone doesn't care just because they don't do the things we think they should do.

My teenage daughter doesn't think I care about her sometimes either.

"second this isn't politics, it's humanity and he DOES care."

I care,
You care.
Nearly everyone here does.

I don't believe Bush does, or will, unless he is affected directly. I win't fault you for believeing that he does. I am trying to believe thatm but nothing that is occurring makes me believe that Bush cares on whit, except for how this affects public perception of him. The people of the area surrounding the disaster, and others from all over the oountry,( an OTHER countries ) have demonstrated their concern. Action I believe. Face time simply makes me cynical.

"cares on whit, except for how this affects public perception of him."

that comes from distrust beforehand, not an objective view. one could say the same thing about the mayors grandstanding, sending out an SOS. and bashing the feds. Very popular with the refugees. after all when this clears he'll be up for reelection won't he.

A person can take anything that anyone does, no matter how good the intentions, and twist it to a selfish negitive view of that individual. It's been done to me in life and I'm willing to bet it's been done to most people here.

"I'm not going to get into a political debate with you or anyone. if you can't see past the partisan political anger you have toward this man"

I don't HAVE any partisan political anger towards him.

"I assumed most people here would want to look at all sides objectivly and debate the issues. "

I am and am trying hard to stay objective.

" assumed that by trying to give a balanced perspective and denouce extremists bantering and name calling it would help. I was wrong. there's too much hate and personal ambiguity of a political nature here. "

It DOES help, and for the most part, things have been pretty reasonable, except for Gadfly, who is only tring to force Indy to respond with silly accusations ( thus rightly ignored ).
All parties in this particular debat must strive to get past their "partisan political anger " ... Not just me, Anonymous, capt, toxic ...
You too.
I am trying.

then keep this tragedy non political. that's the best help anyone can give

"that comes from distrust beforehand, not an objective view "

Really.
This is sort of like saying that no matter what my reasons are, they are invalid, simply because of that " distrust " beforehand.
Kind of like invalidating those that doubt, before they have a chance to voice.

"then keep this tragedy non political. that's the best help anyone can give"

Sounds good ...
Gotta flyswatter ??

"A disaster like this doesn't need any monday morning quarterbacking..."

Monday morning quarterbacking is a process of looking at mistakes that were made and how things could have been better. It can serve a good purpose, in order to have a better result next time.

First, though, our President is not one given to admit mistakes. He made three distinct errors of judgment, and all of them likely contributed to conditions being worse than they should have been in N.O. with this storm. So far, he's only made indirect reference to one of them.

It's only when acknowledgment of the contributing circumstances are examined, that improvement can be expected next time around.

"First, though, our President is not one given to admit mistakes."

what politician is?

"Monday morning quarterbacking is a process of looking at mistakes that were made and how things could have been better. It can serve a good purpose, in order to have a better result next time."

not when it's used for bashing someone or something. nothing constructive ever comes from negitivity.

"He made three distinct errors of judgment, and all of them likely contributed to conditions being worse than they should have been in N.O. with this storm. "

I see, it's one persons fault. how silly of me to think that the hurricane caused all this suffering.

What really matters is why the goverment took so long to do anything. It's not Brain surgery. It was a cat 5 going into the Big Easy. To many brass and no one in charge. Just like it was before 9-11. Now it's getting worse not better. Action speaks louder than words. The homeland calls the five star, the five star calls th one star, the one star calls the colonel, the colonel calls the major, the major calls the captain, the captain calls the the ninety day wonder, the ninety day wonder call the first sergeant, the first sergeant tells the ninety day wonder where's the orders. Well it goes back up the line to the five star he calls homeland, well sir we need written orders to do all of this. So they used the us mail instead of fed ex.

bingo Hawk. streamline the process, not bash one person.

captdunsel (leftlaw)

"it's touching really that your so upset about the city you love but have never been to."

Just because a person like yourself doesn't see the light of day and lives for nothing but this websites doesn't mean the rest of us haven't sampled the many flavors of our great cities around the country. It's true I've been to the Big Easy many times and I love my times there. What I love more are your vague attempts to make me out as some kind of racist. (I know I know typical Leftist tactic) But racism and anger are something not new to this website. Examples and a contrast and compare can be found here.

captdunsel July 31, 2005 @ 9:37 PM
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/17652

And.........

leftlaw October 11, 2003 @ 10:25 PM
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/8378

Seems I recognize that anger and rage.
And the N -word speaks for itself.

One and the same? You be the judge. Have to admire gopsweetie's moxie though. She raised the bar for the rest of us.

More examples can be found here

Leftlaw October 11, 2003 @ 9:38 PM
http://news.dmusic.com/article/8378

And......here

captdunsel February 15, 2004 @ 8:58 PM
http://www.boycottriaa.com/article/10443

sigh! is this necessary? guess it's time to move on.

Old news in two thousand and five. Now fore score and seven years ago that was something.

Just an interesting observation.

If you watched cnn today.. and flipped between CNN and fox.. it becomes clear fox is trying to dilute the inadequacy of the relief efforts and downplay the apolling lack of coordination and proper expediency.. while CNN is asking the right questions, while overplaying the racism card a little.

"Only ones making it a race war is the media who at the very lest hope the humansuffering continues based on rating alone"

That's ridiculous.

"Don't look for the liberal media for answers though. Judging for CNN AND MSNBC, they're trying to start a race war"

No, they aren't.

Folks 67% of New Orleans is African American. 7 out of 10, roughly. Yes, there are more black victims than white victims. No, the white victims did not get food and water any sooner than the black ones.
I have seen video this week of 4 black women trying, crying and ultimately losing thier fight to keep an elderly white woman alive. Take thier example, stop all of this race babble, it's silly it's insensitive, and ultimately, doesn't matter.

Personally I think it's a sign of racism that these news anchors even comment on the "amazing cooperation of blacks and whites".

Until they cease differentiating between them on telecasts racism is still there.

that's the beauty of human nature. if you live long enough sooner or later you will do something monumentally stupid.

congrats stalker. I know who you are now.

?? stalker.. sorry haven't been following the thread.. just came in here to go off topic a bit.

I just started reading this.... Rosie O'Donnell??!! Nope, think Monica Lewinsky but less busty. Or a chubby Marlo Thomas.
tsk, tsk.

Some of the Rants and Raves on Craig's List have been disgusting. It sickens me that racism is so pervasive in this country and just waiting for opportunities to rear its ugly head.

Actually, it's probably part of the reason all Republicans are elected.

Hi, Carla, glad you're back! Tell me the truth--do I really come across as a feminist?

Carla! Nice to see you!

Carla, I've seen a lot of racist comments on the ABCNews message boards, too. It's pretty pathetic.

I've noticed racial separatism stemming from deep (and manufactured) cultural divides in my life, but i've never seen a true racist.

If the popular media would stop promoting different cultures for different skin colors and different eyes we would see this crap disappear rather quickly.

Ridiculous huh?

Accuracy in Media tackles the sleazy reporting put out by MSNBC here...
http://www.aim.org/press_release/3985_0_19_0_C/

Sister Network NBC had some kind of rapper on making racist insensitive statements In a time when the American public were to open their checkbooks.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090300165_pf.html

Other brainstorms Rapper KANYE WEST has come up with is about AIDS: "It's a man-made disease in the first place that was placed in Africa just like crack was placed in the black community to break up the Black Panther party."

WOW And NBC thought this guy was a good idea?

Opinionjournal gives us a real meeting of the minds between Keith Olbermann and Al Sharpton and the "real" racial breakdown inside the Big Eazy
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110007203

And last the CNN Vs. Fox Breakdown
http://the-rail.blogspot.com/2005/09/are-cnn-and-fox-covering-same-disaster.html

And just for fun how about a carla60626 Vs.??? ShadowMom Leftwing jabberfest

http://www.boycott-riaa.com/forums/ThePot/3068

And I thought Keith and Al were a meeting of the minds. What was I thinking??????

I can talk more than Carla any day of the week. But we agree on most things. How about GadfliesDiscourse vs. GOPSweetie in a Rightwing mudslinging contest instead?

I said, "First, though, our President is not one given to admit mistakes."
Compmore said, "What politician is?"
I say, some are worse than others.

I said, "Monday morning quarterbacking is a process of looking at mistakes that were made and how things could have been better. It can serve a good purpose, in order to have a better result next time."
Compmore said, "Not when it's used for bashing someone or something; nothing constructive ever comes from negativity."
I say, are you serious? What if a quality control engineer spots a safety flaw (something negative) and reports it for correction. You don't think someting positive comes from necessary changes based on negative information that becomes available?
Wow.

I said, "He made three distinct errors of judgment, and all of them likely contributed to conditions being worse than they should have been in N.O. with this storm. "
Compmore said, "I see, it's one person's fault. How silly of me to think that the hurricane caused all this suffering."
I say, how does what I wrote ("contributing to conditions being worse than they should have been in N.O. with this storm") compare with YOUR 'assessment' of my statement (as if I said it's tantamount to, quoting you, "one person's fault")?
Your statement doesn't stack up. What you did was put words in my mouth that aren't otherwise there.

"How about GadfliesDiscourse vs. GOPSweetie in a Rightwing mudslinging contest instead?"

You know, that particular scenario could be a matter of just one person slinging mud at himself.

Oh? Ya think? There seem to be three or four versions of the same personality. Or maybe it's just one family of rightwing nutjobs. Do you think LoadWarrior and GadfliesDiscourse and ShadowMomsShadow each know what the others do? Or is it a mystery?

"someting" = a result of my not using adequate proofreading skills

Interesting how there was a "GadflyDiscourse" as well as a "GadfliesDiscourse" popping up at about the same time (on different threads). Did anyone else notice that?

There are 2 registered--GadflyDiscourse and GadfliesDiscourse--both the same, I'm sure.

Mr-Anonymous, those posts of yours look awfully long and filled with overkill....Let's see....I'll say.....gdZiemann!

Am I right? Ahh who cares either way.

captdunsel (leftlaw),

LOL Stalking huh? while threats to other members and rants of killing a public official (Carl Rove) are to go unnoticed. I see the way it works.

Shadowmom you're certainly becoming...

Lord Of The Flies!

On top of politics Shadow here has become a master in dipterology.

Makes sense knowing the load of Leftwing feceation that gets slung around here.

I just don't particularly like rude people...left, right, or wrong.

Captdunsel, still here? Dnote, please. Thank you!

Back to the topic, here's an article written by Ann Rice about her New Orleans.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/opinion/04rice.html?ei=5090&en=ce2f33f8719dba9c&ex=1283486400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

"What if a quality control engineer spots a safety flaw (something negative) and reports it for correction"

As long as the Quality control engineer doesn't waste his time and energy to try to have someone fired for it or personally slander someone for it. Like everyone tends to do to Bush.

What I've learned from this site in the past year....

..RIAA is bad.
..indie music is good.
..republicans are racists or supported by racists.
..Bush is evil
..democrats are good.
..any problems that arise in this country (natural or man made) is the fault of, or is hampered by George W. Bush and him alone.
..anyone who disagrees with the above philosphy is bad and subject to being flamed and criticized. If that doesn't get rid of the individual than indifference to their posts or knocking down any of their ideas is the norm.
..Admin loves this type of conflict and sits back and watches. (except when someone disagrees with them personally.)

We're all feminists on this bus (or should be). It's a good thing. Feminism means equal rights for women. Who's against that?

Hi Shadow and LaChatte. I can't think of anything we disagree on. And you both are very eloquent. I'm more of a hothead.

I just read this, compmore: "The first few days were a natural disaster. The last four days were a man-made disaster," said Phillip Holt, 51, who was rescued from his home..."

Would you agree with that?

Preach on compmore that's about what goes down here. Easy on Indy though he's going his best to keep order.

doing

Comp, I'm really trying...I really am. But absolutes are almost never right. All republicans are not racist, all democrats are not good...not all problems are his fault...but you know the other one is right, don't you. You know you do.

Comp, I'm willing to have a discussion about your list.

ack! Rehnquist died! ack!

yeah shadow mom I'm around. been dealing with other problems today.


tell you what stalker, let's make this simple either call yourself a single name and quit pretending your a group or get help with your mental state then come back and talk. frankly the whole schtick is rather boring and your nowhere near good enough to pull it off.

Bless his heart, he tried to hang in there, didn't he?

youre kidding right carla?

=(...

our nation is screwed.. we may as well flush every copy of the constitution down the toilet now and save whoever redneck nero appoints the trouble.

Oy, what a non-sequitur that turned out to be! I was responding to Carla, of course.

!!!URGENT FLUORIDE PETITION!!!

Help to STOP the Dumping of a Toxic Indistrial Wasteby Product into the Water Supply!

Dear BoycottRiaa Folks,
Plz do not delete this Message, in its own way, it's very Important too!!


[url= http://www.powalliance.org/petition/]Help us to get rid of this Toxic Waste![ /url]

Wow. I am astounded at the continuing shallowness of so many.

Left-wing/right-wing assaults? This was a bipartisan failure. Part of the problem is that everyone is so damned afraid of what the riff-raff gadflies are going to say so they didn't do a damn thing. Decisions cannot be made in the current cover-thy-ass bureaucratic system.

For FEMA to say they weren't even AWARE of the crowd at the convention center or on the I-10 overpasses until Thursday is ludicrous, especially since Shepard Smith of Fox News had been filming from there and begging for food, water and information for those people since early Wednesday.

I've never been to New Orleans and I could have found those people faster than the government did. Geraldo Rivera drove from NYC and got there before food and water arrived.

It is certainly understandable that along the Gulf Coast there are pockets of people that have still not been attended to because they have not yet been found.

But to watch a televised crowd of thousands be ignored in plain sight on an American highway for days is frightening. This is a failure of immense proportions which goes so far beyond such issues as political affiliation that to bring it into the discussion is, in and of itself, an indication of the pettiness that is at the root of the greater failure.

Alex, don't you dare flush the Constitution down the toilet. Shame on you!

[url=http://www.powalliance.org/petition/]In here[/u]

link on rhenquist?

"...or personally slander someone for it. Like everyone tends to do to Bush."

"Slander" can be a false statement, or it can mean words of villification.
I hold Dubya in reproach for valid reasons, but I still respect his official capacity (office of President).

Bush, like all of us, has the POTENTIAL for doing the right things for the right reasons.
And where there is life, there is hope. . .
even for him.

"The first few days were a natural disaster. The last four days were a man-made disaster," said Phillip Holt, 51, who was rescued from his home..."

I couldn't agree more Lachette. What I disagree with is constantly invoking Bush's name everytime there's a problem as if he has nothing to do but sit around and figure out how to cause havoic with this country.
I don't agree with absolutes either but this theme gets tireing.

This tragady was a system/beaucratic breakdown and the responsibility can be spread around from the local government, state, and federal.

sorry guys, I'm venting my frustration. I know most here are really on the right track reguardless of what side of the fence we're on.

That's exactly what I was trying to say George, but not very well

once again.. carla.. where's the link on rhenquist.

Yes, George, and I suspect when it is finally cleaned up, it will be even worse than what they are predicting. I could not believe they took those people and basically dumped them on the roadway and left them there. What were they supposed to do--start walking? Where? Our local tv station aired a one hour special a little earlier, hosted by my favorite meteorologist of all time, Bryan Norcross. He damaged his vocal chords during Andrew talking to people in the affected area so long, his voice is still hoarse. But he said--they knew a Cat 5 would, for all practical purposes, destroy New Orleans. Even a 4, and maybe a 3 would inflict massive damage and loss of life. After Andrew they knew what a storm of that magnitude could do--and officials did not move to prevent it. We did not learn the lessons we should have learned. I hope this time, we will.

captdunselAKAleftlaw,

You can't stalk a website. You being a lawyer should know this. And to do so you need some kind of threat...Which somebody I know seems to be doing alot of....

Look Larry lets cut out the sham of this place being an open forum welcome to all comers and just make membership payable. That way you all can keep things the way you want them free of Rightwingers...and I won't worry about paying to see you all sling mud at our prez, this counrty, our troops, fellow members.

Good idea?

Stop it fluffy, I don't buy it. My 14-year-old has zero cavities--count 'em zero. And do you know what else is in your water? Like oh, chlorine or ammonia? Maybe if you live on a mountaintop, it doesn't need to be treated--nah, pollution occurs everywhere.

just turn on the tv. The nightly news. Or try cnn.com

you know.. i haven't spoken to him for years, but my father lives in that area.

I drink in rhenquist's honor, and fear what nut job will replace him.

I do not profess to have faith (optional system of belief) that our government is serious about averting or minimizing disasters.
Someone demonstrate significant contrary evidence to me, and I will consider changing my mindset.

gdZiemann,

Have to agree with you on that one, Three such type 9-11 attacks looks like it would cripple this counrty. Now I am scared!

Funny how through the whole Gulfports problems..congress "still" didn't come back in force.

Even I will admit that if and when the next attack comes..."Will know who to blame."

Left......Right.....And.......Whatever!

God Help Us

sorry pal, I'm not leflaw. and I'd be glad to meet with you to prove it

Scientific note:
Flouride ions are toxins, as are those of chlorine.
Having them be in our water supply kills the organisms within it, but at the risk of creating halogenous hydrocarbons which can be carcinogenic or otherwise detrimental to physiological systems of higher life forms.
Mankind is one of those higher life forms.

Chlorine and ammonia aren't too good for you, either, in large quantities, but that's what they purify your water with. And bottled water -- probably comes from some guy's ditch. It's not exactly a closely regulated industry.

you're worried about fluoride (that's really how you spell it by the way)?

a bigger problem is what are you going to breathe in 20 years...

small bit of trivia here. 40% of the worlds oxygen is produced in the amazon basin. this area is being cleared at an alarming rate- a block about the size of the british islands every year. by 2025 it could be gone.

captdunsel (leftlaw)

Is that a vague threat? Again?

Europe ozonates its water supply. We could, too, but the sluminum industry here in the U.S. makes a pretty profit out of selling its otherwise excessive fluoride by-products to water treatment facilities, toothpaste companies, and distributors of dentistry products. . . and the profits run deep.

no. I don't make vague threats. if you don't believe I'm who I say then you are welcome to meet with me and see for yourself.

Shadowmom in defence of the rescue workers they were trying to airlift hundreds of people (possibly thousands) one or two at a time from imeadiate danger of drowning. that's a lot of trips. when resources are that thin they have to do what they can. dropping the people off at the nearest piece of dry land then going back to get more is what they had to do.

A lack of planning by authorities is why they stayed there for days. there was no where else to drop them at the time. the rescueers were doing their jobs. and saved many lives.

another note. the salt in an average shaker can kill a human if eaten at once, most medicatoins are derived from poisions, and eggs, salad, and even red meat will wear on your body.

As for the oxygen thing.. I dunno. people survive in high altitudes, theyll survive in the low altitudes with less air. Maybe lots of people will die.. maybe I will die.. either way it will probably contribute to the evolution of our species.

sluminum = new word (no, I meant aluminum)

"Am I going to be your huckleberry?"

Turkey? LOL

Even the way one talks tough is lame.

The Amazon rainforest disappearing at the average rate of the area of a football field every second . . . mind-boggling.
Concomitant deleterious effects in our hemisphere are to be anticipated.

you really are in need of help you know that?

im going to bed now. when something new comes up call me.

All of us could probably use some form of help or another at certain times of our lives.

Captdunsel is NOT leflaw

"What I've learned from this site in the past year....

..RIAA is bad.
..indie music is good.
..republicans are racists or supported by racists.
..Bush is evil
..democrats are good.
..any problems that arise in this country (natural or man made) is the fault of, or is hampered by George W. Bush and him alone.
..anyone who disagrees with the above philosphy is bad and subject to being flamed and criticized. If that doesn't get rid of the individual than indifference to their posts or knocking down any of their ideas is the norm.
..Admin loves this type of conflict and sits back and watches."

That is fucking sad, especially coming from compmore.

Maybe it would be wiser to only post stories and not allow any commentary.
No flaming, no criticizing.

The people writing (not submitting from other news sources) articles will use correct punctuation and grammar and only really be required to present one side of any issue -- the one they're on.

There will be no disagreement.

There will be no political name-calling, no casting of blame, no caricatures of public officials -- except for those the author does not like. Commentary is not necessary.

I never came here to argue with people. I came here to find the truth and share what I knew or had observed with people who shared similar views.

If you even care what my political affiliation is, or Shmoo or ShadowMom or carla, then it has probably been irreversibly ruined by outsiders who either have never had a clue or came here with the explicit intent to make sure the RIAA is discussed as little as possible and in the most inaccurate terms possible.

Agree George

"mroop would play George W Bush for the fact at the very lest he's the only token opposite viewpoint here."

Please don't compare me to any members of the Bush crime family.

Comp, in my most humble opinion, I think the Coast Guard did and is doing a tremendous job, above and beyond the call of duty. I have family in the Coast Guard, and they do an incredible job with what they have. In fact, my nephew is in Mississippi somewhere right now, working as an EMT; he left from work before the storm even hit. And we haven't had more than two words from him since then...he tried to call, but got cut off, since the towers are also down. I don't fault them at all--but those people should not have been left there. What did the mayor say? Too many cooks? It was always my understanding that in this kind of situation, FEMA was in charge of coordinating the efforts--that's the way it was always done down here. And in my humble opinion they totally screwed up. Plans had to be in place BEFORE the storm, not the day after or the week after. BEFORE. The ex-head of FEMA has also blasted them. And George stood there and said Brown has done a great job. Yeah, right.

(I like sluminum--you should copyright it. And Alex, something's gonna kill you no matter how you look at it. It's the human condition. )

?? i've seen some political flame wars recently, but not habitually like compmore says, and I hope they're not taken personally.

I think the political trype should be ignored in leu of the real dirt this community is supposed to be digging into.

It took you long enough to respond to that, mroop.

as for the human condition point.. that was my point exactly.. so complaining about a little flouride in the water is a bit much.. as is going on an atkins diet =)

by the way.. i'll buy a billet of sluminum for $40

"That is fucking sad, especially coming from compmore."

You are so right George. my frustration has been building for a long time and encompasses things not shown publicly on the threads. Also from personal experience with certin individuals. Given all that it's hard for me to see it differently at times though I do try.

I do take your statement as a very postive one and I thank you for restoring a doubt I have had for quite awhile.

Could it be because the Bush appointed a complete jackass as head of FEMA?

"I think I've told you that I'm into Arab horses. Well, for 3 years Michael Brown was hired and then fired by our IAHA, the International Arabian Horse Assoc. He was an unmitigated, total fucking disaster. I was shocked as hell when captain clueless put him in charge of FEMA a couple of years ago."

"He or the WH lied on the WH presser announcing him to FEMA. IAHA was never connected to the Olympic Comm, only the half Arab registry then and the governing body to the state and local Arabian horse clubs. He ruined IAHA financially so badly that we had to change the name and combine it with the Purebred registry.

I am telling you this after watching the fucking shipwreck in the Gulf. His incompetence is KILLING people."

"Yes, that's right... the man responsible for directing federal relief operations in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, sharpened his emergency management skills as the "Judges and Stewards Commissioner" for the International Arabian Horses Association... a position from which he was forced to resign in the face of mounting litigation and financial disarray."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/2/34622/68348

"Brownie, you're doing a heckuva job." - George W. Bush, September 2, 2005

We all know Mroop that you don't like Bush.....Who does on this website???

But you seem to be the token opposing viewpoint here and yet you are not "subject to being flamed and criticized" as compmore put it unlike say myself or a sweetie. Funny isn't it?? And low and behold despite it all you're still a Bushbasher no surprise there huh?

So forgive my casting, In no way did I think you'd be part of the the hypocrisy.

I guess it kind of hurts to contemplate how our human condition is, in a word, terminal.

I personally would not have a problem with someone who liked bush.. if they provided deep logical explanation for their affinity for the redneck nero.

For instance.. I'd understand if an owner of a strip mine, deforestation company, factory farm, or oil company liked bush.

there's a difference in not liking the man and not liking his policies. If someone likes or dislikes a person because of their politics then that person is shallow.

"And low and behold despite it all you're still a Bushbasher no surprise there huh?"

Bushbasher. Ha. Now that's funny. I guess it's wrong to point out that your chimp boy appointed an incompetent doofus to head FEMA.

I personally like Bush, Ted Kennedy, Clinton (yes both of them) and many others. They are all good sincere people. their politics may be another story.

"I'd understand if an owner of a strip mine, deforestation company, factory farm, or oil company liked Bush."

Or, a commercial developer of the wetlands along the Gulf Coast where Katrina struck.
Or, oil companies eager to drill in the unspoiled Alaskan wilderness or in fragile coastal waters off the U.S. mainland.

"If someone likes or dislikes a person because of their politics then that person is shallow."

I agree with you. Hitler loved his mom puppies. That's why I like him as a person even though his politics weren't so nice.

As opposed to the liberal Hollywood media many Democrats look for suport from?

Oh wait Isn't that the same media that this website claims to be against?

Hypocrisy Indeed!

Put an "and" between "mom" and "puppies". Thank you. : )

Comp, I don't dislike the man--I don't know him. My impressions of him, however, are that he is not a man I would buy a bridge from. It's his politics that I hate. From A to Z, I think he's done more to screw up this country than any one man I've seen in my lifetime. I understand people "like" him; he's got a "great personality" -- or so I hear. Even Democrats and pseudo-Democrats say they like him. So? That's no reason to vote for a president. And he had precious few things to recommend him for the job. Except for Daddy. And megabucks.

"... Clinton (yes, both of them) and many others are all good, sincere people."

It all depends on what the meaning of "good" is.

mroop my point is proven. Hitler was distestible as a person and his politics were the same. this is unique. but thanks for being consistant.

"here's a difference in not liking the man and not liking his policies. If someone likes or dislikes a person because of their politics then that person is shallow."

If you want to get into a philosophical debate; a man's policies are a reflection of that man, and a man's reason for liking another man are a reflection upon that man.

If a man adopts policies which are obviously destructive to human rights, the environment, and international relations, and in addition fails to see reason, it's obvious the man should not be liked either.

Anyone who likes this man may have unknown reasons, but if those reasons involve following right wing talk radio like a sheep, or fallacies such as supply side economics, then that person has failed to demonstrate the ability to make informed choices.

I know you were venting, Comp, but your characterization of the people on this site is and of itself, I feel, not a well thought out assumption. You should know that compared to the left wing and right wing mudslinging sites out there, this site is a veritable oasis of non political discussion. Oh, I'm not denying it's here, but it's no where near as bad as the political sites, which boil posters alive in acid. Maybe it tilts a little bit more one way or another, but is that a reason to treat our views with regards to the RIAA with contempt? I've gained invaluable knowledge on the machiavellian workings of the music cartel on our society. The cartel doesn't care what politican is of what stripe. All they see is another mallable hunk of playdoh which can be manipulated with the right kind of monetary pressure.

I'm with awehr.

No more incompetent idiots Democrats put in The Big Easy

Democrats Mayor Ray Nagin,Democrat Governor Kathleen Blanco, and Sen. Mary Landrieu come to mind.

Seems Democrats have no shortages when it comes to imbeciles.

Again where "is" Ray Nagin? Starting to look more and more like something out of Where's Waldo.

. . . and pinemikey

mikey has the right idea here.

"Hitler was distestible as a person and his politics were the same."

I'll take your word for it. But let's say that Hitler was a very likeable person. According to you, a person would be shallow if they disliked Hitler for his politics. The same would go for Stalin and Pol Pot and that dude in North Korea. Do you see the problem with your theory?

mroop, you're scaring me. Where is the real mroop?

"Democrats have no shortages when it comes to imbeciles."

Nor Republicans:
FEMA's director for starters.
Oh, and how about Bolton the Brilliant?
(Good grief, don't get me started.)

"No more incompetent idiots Democrats put in The Big Easy"

So you admit that Michael Brown is incompetent. You better not say that around your freeper buddies.

"Again where "is" Ray Nagin? Starting to look more and more like something out of Where's Waldo."

He's in New Orleans last I heard. Where's Condi Rice? Shopping for thousand dollars shoes and taking in a play on Broadway? Where did Dick Cheney go to? Is he hiding in Wyoming drawing up the no bid contracts for Haliburton?

I like that title... allow me to add that to some other terms from the thread:

"none shall pass, for I bolton the brilliant shall stop you with my shining sluminum sword!!11oneone"

BTW, what was Dubya's grade point average at Yale?
And how come he needs such help from Karl Rove ("Bush's brain", he's called)?
Hmm?

GPA is not an indicator of uptake at schools like that. My friend had a 1.9 at emory and is absolutely brilliant.

Awehr - clever stuff; that was really good.

In case anyone missed it.:

"What does surprise us: Just moments ago at the Ferragamo on 5th Avenue, Condoleeza Rice was seen spending several thousands of dollars on some nice, new shoes (we’ve confirmed this, so her new heels will surely get coverage from the WaPo’s Robin Givhan). A fellow shopper, unable to fathom the absurdity of Rice’s timing, went up to the Secretary and reportedly shouted, “How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are dying and homeless!” Never one to have her fashion choices questioned, Rice had security PHYSICALLY REMOVE the woman."

http://www.gawker.com/news/condoleezza-rice/index.php

"mroop, you're scaring me. Where is the real mroop? "

I killed him and sauteed him and ate him.

Ferragamo?.. sounds like a sports car.

I understand Condi and Cheney have since been shamed into returning to DC. I wonder if she wore her new shoes.

"Do you see the problem with your theory?"

No I don't. if Hitler, Stalin and Po Pot were likeable people they wouldn't have done the type of things they did.

"If a man adopts policies which are obviously destructive to human rights, the environment, and international relations, and in addition fails to see reason, it's obvious the man should not be liked either."

FDR, Woodrow Wilson, Abe Lincoln, Andrew Jackson, Teddy Roosevelt, Ronald Regan, JFK, etc... all did things and had detractors that would fit the same bill. Bush is in good Company

Mroop, you're an animal.

"My friend had a 1.9 at emory and is absolutely brilliant."

I know that's true, but I was just jostling with the gadfly for a moment.
Naturally, we all know that Einstein made some bad grades in school.
Basically, it boils down to WHY the person made a poor grade. In the case of Albert the genius, he got bored with the trivial curriculum and just stopped trying or caring.

P.S. I really liked your "I, Bolton the brilliant shall stop you with my shining sluminum sword!!"

Hey mroop's eater, I hope you sauteed him in a white wine sauce with shallots. With SPAM!

the "11oneone" is important!

Funny I heard Ray Nagin was trying to get his buddies out of New Orleans ahead of poor suffering people. And what about calling martial law in time? And why did 60% of the police Nagin based on race rather than merits(Yeah like liberal fishheads weren't pushing for that bit of incompetence)

What a Democratic Party mess of a liberal utopia.

What a wonderful Republican Party response. What about a federal plan AHEAD of time?

"What a Democratic Party mess of a liberal utopia."

What is it, half as bad as a neocon utopia?

Forget it, Gadflies--this was an all-round failure. And no matter how you spin it, they failed the Gulf Coast--left, right, all the way around. Stop spinning it any other way.

on a lighter note.. i found some very comical ammo for Anonymous's left wing fight from a very left wing IM buddy:

"At Andover, George W. Bush writes a morose essay about his sister's death. Searching for a synonym for "tears," he consults a thesaurus and writes, "And the lacerates ran down my cheeks." A teacher labels the paper "disgraceful.""

I think old gaddy is seeing that no one really wants to take the bait. He doesn't really care about what he's posting or for that matter, he really doesn't care about anything at all. He is here for one purpose...disruption. Talk about shallow, the guy is made out of Saran wrap.

The gadfly, I wonder if "she" a Republican on the order of Bill O'Reilley -- "no spin" (yeah, right!)

Spin this,

Photo of buses that lay under water that could have been used to get the people out of danger. Another Ray Nagin brainfart it seems.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

"No I don't. if Hitler, Stalin and Po Pot were likeable people they wouldn't have done the type of things they did."

Sorry but you're wrong. A person can be likeable and evil at the same time.

Do you know who Ted Bundy is? By all accounts he was immensely likeable and charming. Even the judge who presided over his trial and sentenced him to death like Ted Bundy. Hear is what the judge said at his sentencing hearing:

"It is ordered that you be put to death by a current of electricity, that that current be passed through your body until you are dead. Take care of yourself, young man. I say that to you sincerely; take care of yourself. It's a tragedy for this court to see such a total waste of humanity as I've experienced in this courtroom. You're a bright young man. You'd have made a good lawyer, and I'd have loved to have you practice in front of me, but you went the wrong way, partner. Take care of yourself. I don't have any animosity to you. I want you to know that. Take care of yourself."'

inserting an "is" after "she" makes more sense

Not fair, Alex. We all know the president has a distinct lack of language skills. It makes me lacerate sometimes when I see/hear his disgraceful utterances.

yeah.. i've seen the photo of the buses.

Why isn't the army or national guard airlifting them onto functional road? Their systems are primitive enough to simply dry out and run again in 6-12 hours.

Poor gadfly hasn't been provided his talking points by the GOP. It's funny watching him try to debate without instructions from his masters.

Heck,

Even the Associated Press predicted danger of New Orleans.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/3/152800.shtml

Everyone seem to see it coming but Democratic Party leadership

I mean.. the skycranes can't really be put to use airlifting people.. they would be well suited lifting buses onto highways to be used to get out of town.

It's obvious it was an all aisles blunder Gadflies.. even america's gerbils knew there was a massive hurricane comming at least 2 days in advance and nobody did anything, not the dems, not the repubs.

And even more warnings of danger predicted for New Orleans just a year ago.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46130

I'm reading that Celine Dion went nuts on Larry King.

"Celine went off yelling/crying things like:

"The US can go to other countries and bomb them - but we can't go to New Orleans and drop them food?""

Rebroadcast in 2 hours. Pray for no editing. : )

Everyone seems to see it coming but the federal government. Living in Florida, I have a lot of experience with the devastation hurricanes cause. No local government, no state government can handle it. Federal government has to be prepared. They cannot be on vacation when it occurs. Don't be so damn stupid.

let's face it.. we've spread our troops too thin fighting the precious "war on terror(read iraq)"

"massive hurricane comming at least 2 days in advance and nobody did anything, not the dems, not the repubs."

On that true sane statement awehr which in the end is really what happen. I'm off to bed.

Wolfpac tactics worked great it seems I'm beat. Good that it took what? 8 of you? Real heros here.

then it's a matter of perspective. There were lots of people who liked Hitler but now not many do. lots of people hated Lincoln (even in the north) but now he's held up as one of our greatest presidents.

If politics is going to determine weither a person is good or bad then everyone who thinks differently than one person is bad. IE Bush is bad because Mroop and others don't like his politics. Clinton is bad because GadfliesDiscorse doesn't like his politics. it's gotten personal. Doesn't anyone understand why this country is in such a mess?

spin? everyone droped the ball down south. Local city government (democrats) didn't plan evacuation centers and ready search and rescue teams for the short term correctly. The state Government (Democrat Gov) didn't have her national guard troops in place and ready to go with a plan. and the Feds (republican) failed to provide support on time. Everyone knew it was coming. everyone knew the flooding was probable, and everyone had the same amount of time to get something together.

Everyone dropped the ball. instead of criticizing and badmouthing either side (which I don't believe was intentional from anyone) Mr-Anonymous' analogy of fixing the problem for next time should be addressed.

=/ what wolf pack? I didn't take a side or know what was going on. But I do have lacerates running down my cheeks =P

"And even more warnings of danger predicted for New Orleans just a year ago."

Yeah, too bad your hero (Dubya) didn't avail himself of this information when his administration cut back the financing for the Army Corps of Engineers plan to improve N.O.'s levee system.
Or, too bad he didn't take the critical information of your linked ominous warning to heart when he decided some time back to allow commercial developers to drain a considerable portion of the Gulf Coastal wetlands that otherwise lessens the impact of flooding from hurricanes.

sorry shadowmom. my mom lives in florida too and she feels totally different. we've gotta stop looking toward the feds to solve all our problems. it's a combined effort.

Look at Gadfly scurrying about trying to prevent Bush's approval ratings from tanking even further. I feel kind of sorry for him. : )

I guess his right wing nut job sites aren't reporting what Republican Newt Gingrich said:

"I think it puts into question all of the Homeland Security and Northern Command planning for the last four years, because if we can't respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we're prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?" said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich."'

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050902/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_katrina

You can google what Senator Chuck Hagel (R) said yourself. : )

Compmore,

Amen!

You people should be very proud of yourselves.

Maybe Sean Hannity forgot to tell Gadfly what GWB himself said:

"Bush began the day at the White House where he expressed unhappiness with the efforts so far to provide food and water to hurricane victims and to stop looting and lawlessness in New Orleans. "The results are not acceptable," said Bush, who rarely admits failure."

In the case of the bush administration this is not "politics".

"politics" is a debate around how to fund schools, how to structure welfare programs..

Bush represents a unilateral threat to the populace of the world in his foreign (war&intimidation), domestic(ignorance and intimidation), environmental(just let them pollute in the most efficient way possible), social (screw minorities, intellectuals, and free thinkers), and economic (give everything away to large corporations) policies.

These are not normal "right wing" policies, they are unsound to the point of madness.

I've considered myself a true conservative. Small government, fiscal responsibility, but this guy is at the same time the worst of liberal and ultra-conservative.

In short he should not be in office.

"The results are not acceptable," said Bush, who rarely admits failure."

so?? everyone here complains he won't admit mistakes but when he does it's still not good enough.

That's exactly right, comp. But they won't. I live under the threat of a hurricane every year. We still have power out for 11,000 people down here from Katrina. You think I don't know what they are going through? This was a failure. From the top to the bottom. Yes, Bush is to blame. Cat 4 and Cat 5 storms are not something to fool with--you know that. I'm angry with all of them, not for the loss of life they couldn't prevent, but for the loss of life they could prevent. Once the storm was over, the federal government should have been there within hours. Do you know what kind of hell we went through with Andrew? And it was so small compared to Katrina. The loss of life after the hurricane--and it will be immense--is at least partially the fault of the federal government, and the federal government IS Bush.

I personally never blamed the current crisis on bush.

If anything it rests on the fema director and the mayor and governor for failing to take pre-emptive action in the preceeding days.

Mr-Anonymous aka gdZiemann

Save it George I see past your long winded rants. To late to sit through each and every page. Mail it all to me and tell me how it ends up.

Nighty night

Gadflies, you don't see anything.

Nighty night.

"Yes, Bush is to blame. Cat 4 and Cat 5 storms are not something to fool with--you know that."

yes I know that but he's not to blame.

"I'm angry with all of them,"

then why is bush to blame??

"Once the storm was over, the federal government should have been there within hours."

State and local were already there. why didn't they have something set up as well.

"Do you know what kind of hell we went through with Andrew?"

not personally but my mom does live there. Andrew missed her but she worked at a hospital at the time. She saw alot. and like I said she'd disagree with you a lot.

I'm waiting for someone to say that if Kerry would've won none of this would've happened.

"so?? everyone here complains he won't admit mistakes but when he does, it's still not good enough"

Right. Not good enough.
That was one admission. Two more to go on the very issues (mistakes) that he was part of in causing this hurricane disaster to be worse than it should have been.
(You already know what the other two were.
I'll take odds right now from anyone as to whether he 'fesses up to either of the remaining two.
P.S. I'm known for only betting on practically sure things.)

"I see past your long-winded rants."

Well, the "rant" you were referring to was only eight lines long. (See my post of 1:28 A.M.)
Face it; you couldn't handle the heat of my argument, so you opted out.
Checkmate.

gadfliesdiscorse. George is one of the most respected members here. I have enormous respect for him and when he says something critical it's never in an inflamitory way. My respect for him allows me to accept his critiques of myself when I step out of line. when he says something it's to make a good point. not ranting. if you want to read ranting I can give you a couple names to read on but I won't.

Men don't ordinarily say nighty night.

"Why is bush to blame??"

Oh, no, I don't want to repeat myself.
See my post of 1:28 A.M.
Earlier, I mentioned more details concerning these issues.
I even have some news articles I could share.

Not to mention, most of us were involved with Compmore's more valid complaints about how some people focus too much on Bush as the cause of all our problems. This gadfly is just a speck on the wall, trying to attack everyone to start the thread and then complain about everyone ganging up on him and having to run away to beddie bye.

I read it. my point is everyone has blame to go around if we want to point fingers. but pointing fingers won't help the people down south will it??

It will make Bush haters feel better though.

Anonymous: driving people away with a torrent of words does not necessarily mean you've won.

if it already hasn't been mentioned, gadfly sounds a lot like Repub Susie, or whatever her name was. sweetie something.

Here's a much more entertaining subject than politics: The megapenny project

This is not to say, I think Bush should get a free ride. The captain of the ship is ultimately responsible for all the good AND the bad which happens. This mess in the gulf happened on his watch. Sorry, but with President's job comes responsibilty for the good things as well as bad things.

"Men don't ordinarily say nighty-night."

That's true.
Key word: "ordinarily"

Gadfly may be a woman, but it could just as easily be a man who has played this type of role in the past elsewhere for a long time and manages the charade quite well.

"Anonymous: driving people away with a torrent of words does not necessarily mean you've won."

Awehr: my writing eight lines (post of 1:28 A.M.) about the issues that Gadfly declined to engage was not a torrent of words.

Otherwise, as a generality, what you said is undeniable.

Gadfly said: ". . . warnings of danger predicted for New Orleans just a year ago."

I jumped on that and basically said right, so why didn't your man (Pres. Bush) heed such warnings and therefore refrain from:
a) diminishing the funding necessary for the N.O. levee strenghening ($70,000,000 was to have been used);
b) allowing the commercial exploitation and development of Gulf Coastal wetlands which, if left intact, act as a moderating entity when severe floods occur. They stood as a natural buffer between the city and storms coming in from the water.

The fact is I can present news articles which discuss these very issues. Dubya, and any of his apologists, are dead in the water against these arguments.

The terrists are coming!! That's about all the simpering simian has left.

Check this out:

"Former CIA director George Tenet, said to be the target of what the Washington Times called "a scathing report by Inspector General John Helgerson” - may go public with embarrassing disclosures about the Bush administration and its actions leading up to Sept. 11, 2001. ....

Roberts writes, "George Tenet is not going to let himself become the fall guy for the September 11th intelligence failures, according to a former intelligence officer and a source friendly to Mr. Tenet.”

In retaliation, Roberts says that Tenet may turn the tables and put the blame on President Bush. ...

Quoting a "knowledgeable source,” Roberts wrote that Tenet "had a ‘wink and a nod’ understanding with the White House that he wouldn't be scapegoated for intelligence failings.”

Roberts claims a "deal" was made between Tenet and Bush, one that was sealed with the President’s award of the Presidential Freedom Medal to the former CIA head."

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/2/110832.shtml

"Gadfly may be a woman, but it could just as easily be a man who has played this type of role in the past elsewhere for a long time and manages the charade quite well."

Yup, exactly ...
Who's notably missing ? ( not indy, he's got too much class for that kind of crap )

mroopisims that boycott-riaa.com supposedly has suffered from over the years. And yet the guy is still held with high regard, never truly flamed or banished to all four corners of the Internet by our fellow members like all others who dare the boycott-riaa.com Twilight Zone . Strange wouldn't you say? Token opposing viewpoints I guess. Oh well enjoy!

"Every band thinks their something special, but they're not. "

"I haven't seen one good (Indie) band yet. They all suck."

"But without any of that exposure she has managed to become a multimillionare with a loyal and rabid fan base (of lesbians)."

"Buy your RIAA music at the Walmart and support your favorite artist today!"

"Indian lesbians are hot!"

"These Shiv Sena guys must be a bunch of fags!"

"You are all a bunch of crybabies. Especially Codewarrior."

"I hope you try to make it as a musician when your mommy stops supporting you."

"99% of artists are broke, you dummy."

"You know nothing about the subject at hand, you are ignorant."

"What are you 12 years old? Don't you have someone to beat up on the playground?"

"You think I'm going to give out my personal information so you can call me and harass me and act like babies?"

"Wow. You people are strange. Is this site so full of losers that you can't comprehend that an attorney would bother to post here?"

"Me bitch and whine? It seems to me that this entire web site is here so you all can bitch and whine how you are being treated unfairly. "Waah, waah, I want free music!"

Funny exchange can be found here where lawyer mroop whines like a baby at the threats his personal information getting out......Brave guy,Funny stuff

http://news.dmusic.com/article/7756

Strange thing is no leftlaw in any of these debates. Who wouldn't want to see the two "shysters" going Mano a mano. Loser leave town match we can only hope!

In a recent New Yorker magazine there is a review of two new books on Kim Jong Il. (Or Kim Jong Mentally Il, as I like to call him.) I think he's an example of a sociopath who can put on a veneer of total charm when he wants to -- i.e. for his own purposes. Some have called him very generous, friendly, and magnetic. (Obviously not the people he is starving and executing.) I don't know, I guess some people are just mesmerized by power. It really doesn't matter how they might appear. Evil is evil. Pat Robertson ought to ad Kim to his list of people we need to "take out." Many people have been charmed by Castro and other strongarm dictators. I guess that is partly how they got to be powerful. They must have some undefinable thing that draws people to them.

People may be angry with President Bush, and they may disapprove of the job he's doing. These "Bush is evil" and "Bush is stupid" rants are not going to go very far with the general public, however. Bush doesn't speak eloquently enough for some, but any objective review of the evidence shows he's not stupid. His schoolmates, for example, admit that when he finally knuckled down, he studied hard, and they do not hand out MBAs at Harvard just because you are a President's son. The people saying Bush is evil are really just saying they don't like his politics. When Clinton bombs aspirin factories, that's good. When Bush bombs terrorists, that's evil.

And as an aside here, what does Condi Rice have to do with the situation in N.O.? That is SO not her area of expertise or authority. I'll bet some of you here will be going out this weekend and buying hamburgers, books, clothes, even shoes. You heartless bastards! How can you have any fun on a holiday weekend when black people starve, and then are raped and eaten in New Orleans?! You people make me sick. I'm going to stay inside and thrash my back with knotted ropes.

As for Bush, his second term has been a very poor showing. This is another in a string of failures. Yes, I agree compmore, how long before someone says Kerry would have saved N.O.? I don't believe it. We have a government bureaucracy that is based on a culture of process instead of outcomes. Probably everyone followed the rules here, and a disaster ensued. I mean a man-made disaster following the natural disaster. Absolutely, planning needs to be done BEFORE the event. And organizations need to be structured so that red tape and rules do not impede effective operations.

I'm reading the autobiography of General Tommy Franks. He was in charge of troops south of the DMZ in South Korea for a while. He knew that if the North atacked, the South would have one hour to stop them, or they would probably take Seoul and cause unacceptable losses. He also knew that if the North attacked, they would do it at the least opportune moment, to try to catch the American and South Korean forces napping. Franks' solution? Training exercises. Endless training exercises in all kinds of conditions. Keep everyone well-practiced and on their toes.

That kind of foresight and planning (and training drills) needs to be part of our disaster relief and Homeland Security contingencies. This is where the government has totally failed. The President needs to see that there is central command and control of relief operations, not just patchwork jobs and confusion. And the people at Homeland Security and FEMA need to be competent. Bush is to blame for not seeing that these steps were taken in the beginning (I mean the very beginning -- the reorganization of agencies in the wake of Homeland Security). Now that we've seen that the whole operation is Rube Goldberg and cannot perform, if he does not fix the problem, Bush will be doubly to blame.

President Carter was ineffective. Few people would call him evil. Bush appears to be suffering from the malaise that seems to afflict many Presidents in their second terms. Like him or hate him, he's the only President we've got, so you'd better be trying to push him in the right direction and supporting him, until you have an opportunity to replace him. I confess that in the Clinton years, I pretty near hated the man, and could only view him in terms of combatting him. And yet, when the Democrats lost power in Congress in 2004, he was actually pretty cooperative on the legislative front. Perhaps a turnaround in GOP fortunes in 2006 will get Bush's attention. But that's in the hands of the electorate. So we shall see.

A final thought -- I sometimes think that government organizational structures are set up so that when "shit happens," there is no clear way to fix the blame. That really needs to change. When things get screwed up, we ought to be able to know who should be fired, and heads should roll. Accountability has to be restored to government.

THE WASHINGTON POST
New Oreleans - Tens of thousands of people spent a fifth day awaiting evacuation from this ruined city, as Bush administration officials blamed state and local authorities for what leaders at all levels have called a failure of the country's emergency management.

------snip!------------------------------
(Comment: Oops, is this tantamount to a reversal of what had previously appeared to be regarded as a rare admission by Bush for some culpability in the disgraceful delay in helping the N.O. victims? If so, well, comp, the score just changed from 1 out of 3 back to 0 out of 3.)

autodidact: good points... I would like to comment further on what you've said...

But, first, Gadfly... I know that you are a musician. And you know first-hand what is going on down south.

autodidact,

You're hanging out with MrGeorgeAnonymousgdZiemann to much buddy.

Trim some of the fat off that post next time. ok?

I've read your comments going back to 2003, Gadfly. I understand your frustration when mroop, the attorney, attacks indie musicians. But there are indie musicians that he likes! You think that George is angry because he didn't get signed to a label... I think you still want to get signed. So why do you come here to torment people who think that the entire music industry is corrupt?

Gadfly????

I stayed up very late last night - 1:30 AM - watching the boards here and at DMusic, Gadfly. It's very sad. You are a terrific musician.

Aha, Gadfly trotting out a litany of archived comments by mroop . . . thus practically confirming in the minds of some that she/he and GOPSweetie are one and the same.
Also, I note that "trim some of the fat" off a post waa an exact phrase used by GOPSweetie too.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~
autodidact:
"When Clinton bombs aspirin factories, that's good. When Bush bombs terrorists, that's evil."

You don't think that the majority of Americans considered that kind of mistake by Clinton to be bad (not to mention embarressing)?
And your other comment about Bush bombing terrorists, you don't think that the majority of Americans supported the attack on Afghanistan's Taliban terrorists?
You've left me scratching my head here.

autodidact wrote:
"I'll bet some of you here will be going out this weekend and buying hamburgers, books, clothes, even shoes."
Sorry, but we're not lavishly blowing a thousand bucks on a pair of shoes! I know the lady makes a lot more money than us, but that was a bit much, as was her inability to deal with the verbal confrontation other than to have security physically usher the critical customer away. No way all that didn't reek at least a little bit, and any comparison to us in regard to these things doesn't really wash.

autodidact wrote:
"As for Bush, his second term has been a very poor showing. This is another in a string of failures."
Very well articulated, and I truly respect you for verbalizing this.

autodidact wrote:
"President Carter was ineffective. Few people would call him evil."
This is interesting to mull. I'd like to respond, but first I'll wait awhile to see if others would feel similarly to me . . . in focusing on why Carter might not be held to as high a standard for his errors as Dubya (even apart from the obvious, that Dubya is notoriously loathe to admit mistakes and would rather change his reasons belatedly after-the-fact for some of his ill-advised actions that end up engendering disapproval).

autodidact wrote:
"A final thought -- I sometimes think that government organizational structures are set up so that when "shit happens," there is no clear way to fix the blame."
Another observation that hits the bullseye, so to speak, on many a level.

My fingers typed "waa" instead of "was".
Ah, to have the use of an edit feature on these boards, leflaw!

I'm sure as we type mroop is "googling" at a record pace each every and all quotes I posted to make sure I took nothing of what he typed out of context.

Good Luck

Have to give leftlaw some props though for his part he has the testicular fortitude to post his lawyer info on his website.

Gadfly, mroop doesn't care if you quote him. mroop is a music lover. He is a collector. He just doesn't think that indie musicians have much of a chance to make a decent living. He thinks artists should be compensated.
And as far as leflaw is concerned, you should be grateful.

gdZiemann is just mad because I outed him as Mr-Anonymous

And I thought gdZiemann spent alot of time here.....So you're Anonymous on your time off????

Whatever!

gdZiemann is not Mr-Anonymous... Are you going to respond to my comments or should I continue...?

Would you like me to post your comments under your musician name, Gadfly?

grateful?

Wonder how grateful our American-Americans feel about that little dity of a N-word F-Bomb that was dropped I posted from the archives awhile back.

I'm sure they're all pleased. But don't worry I'm sure "captdunsel" has plenty more "black" friends.

You took that out of context.

You're a subsciber. You must think it's a good deal.

"subscriber"

It's often presumptuous to give people the benefit of the doubt, so to speak. (Okay, so I'm not socially nurturing.)
That's why I decline to absorb any speculation that Gadfly is appearing on our boards with any sort of benign intention. (Until and if convincing evidence presents itself, that is.)
I did once say that you could call me Mr. Cynical, didn't I?
Here's fodder for psychoanalysis buffs: Is it likely that a person has an ego problem if they prefer to be cynical rather than risk being wrong?

When you came back in July, 2005, you posted a whopper, Gadfly. It's not on your page, so you can't edit it.

Lachatte, don't keep us mired in suspense - give us the link that thread, please.

Lachatte ,

It's true I am a musician but not so sure the one you're thinking of. No more sure as If gdZiemann thinks I'm the real gopsweetie or not.

Truth is we're all blind people locked in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there.

I just want Gadfly to stop being disruptive. As a musician, with lots of experience, he gives great constructive criticism to many of the artists on DMusic. He spends a lot of time listening to other artists. He's a great guitarist.

Then, should I post the quotes and let other posters decide for themselves?

I don't care if you're also GOPSweetie. Your personal comments on this board are harsh and very subjective. I try to read the articles here at the Boycott site every day. Because I often have little to offer, I don't comment.

Previously someone suspected GOPSweetie (now Gadfly) as being, in actuality, an adminstrator playing a game over there at DMusic, but there was no substantiation, so I was rather doubtful. (Note: I post from Boycott-RIAA.)
Lachatte, having an opportunity to see those quotes you mentioned would save me a lot of archive work. I say, give it a go.
And thanks.

Gadfly, you haven't logged on to DMusic today. Did the gig get cancelled last night?

You know, your mentioning how Gadfly is disruptive, etc., got me thinking. Since that appears to be the case, here are some plausible reasons:
1) She/He may enjoy creating a stir for the sake of getting attention; or,
2) She/He may have an axe to grind against someone in management (leflaw?);
3) She/He may be a well-known member (administrator?) playing a game, relishing an opportunity to increase postings on the boards. (I hope not, but this must be considered a possibility.) Fact is, every time GOPSweetie or Gadfly or Kneo or those type of people have become active posters, participation on those associated threads goes through the roof, likely making our websites' ad sponsors VERY happy.

If you go to this page, http://music.dmusic.com/ , it shows what artists are online.
This page, http://interact.dmusic.com/community , shows what the users/artists are doing, if anything. I watched the pages last night to confirm what I suspected. The individual artist/user page lists all comments made by the artist/user. Once an artist logs on, it shows him "online" whether he's there or not. After about 20 minutes of not streaming music or making a comment, he's "idle".
Pretty strange actually... It was a grammatical error that got me there. If gadfly stops the harrassment, I will remain silent.

"I'm sure as we type mroop is "googling" at a record pace each every and all quotes I posted to make sure I took nothing of what he typed out of context."

Ha. Like I give a crap! Too funny. : )

"Indian lesbians are hot!"

I stand by this comment!

"never truly flamed or banished to all four corners of the Internet by our fellow members"

You're insane. I'm attacked here on a regular basis.

About the only way Gadfly is likely to refrain from being disruptive is if she/he refrains from posting.

Neat Tools Lachatte.
Got more quiet around here after that post of yours, didn't it

""Indian lesbians are hot!"

Native American "Indians" or India "Indians " ??

Doesn't matter, true in both cases.

Hypocrisy continues!

Shouts of love from fellow members of boycott-riaa.com for our dear Token opposing viewpointer. RIAA backer and hater of all Indiemusic. mroop...

ShadowMom August 31, 2005 @ 9:13 PM
"comp's right about mroop--he does make a lot of sense."

And again from Shadow...

ShadowMom Sept 28, 2004 @ 7:38 PM
"mroop--You got that right!"

CodeWarrior Sept 28, 2005 @ 8:39 PM
"Thanks mroop...that did raise my spirits a bit."

ShadowMom April 24, 2005 @ 9:02 PM
"mroop--Thanks for making my day!!"

gdZiemann April 22, 2005 @ 9:19 PM
"Good one, mroop."

carla60626 June 23, 2004 at 12:09 PM
"Mroop challenges some muddy thinking here and offers useful information. And he's against George Bush and this stupid war. "

TheSherminator June 25, 2004 at 8:14
"mroop doesn't want to drive people away, because then he'd have nobody to 'prove' wrong =)"

pinemikey June 21, 2005 9:36 PM
"Thanks, Mroop. You're a true friend to this and every website on the internet."

pepe512000
"And mroop, thank you for the advice on the link"

captdunsel August 14, 2004 @ 3:30 PM
"so what happened? did mroop and carla run off together?"

So-called "enemies" sure do make for some strange bedfellows don't they?

Just wondering if the country's emergency response groups will be up to the task if/when California sinks into the Pacific. I also wonder which party will be in the White House and who's fault it will be then? Hope it doesn't happen before we get New Orleans cleaned up and back on track.

gadfly what is wrong? I wake up this morning and find you're still trashing George and Mroop. Mroop's right, he gets attacked all the time. Him and I have gotten into it a few times but then I let it go the next day and move on. He has a sharp mind and though I don't agree with some of his views He does make sense.

George hasn't done anything to deserve your attacks. He loves music and from what I've heard him say he has no intentions to sign with a label, so jealously and disapointment??

You applauded a few of my statements on this thread but you missed my biggest pet peeve. I don't like nastyness, namecalling and personal vendettas. I'm constantly promoting civil discourse and am usually attacked for it. people are so focused on the issue they're discussing they can't see my point. It's human nature to try and justify anger and lack of civility.
Then what happens, I go and slip and violate my own pet peeve. that's what highly charged emotional outbursts accomplish. they don't accomplish anything productive. I have my own issues with a couple of admins for my own reasons and shouldn't bring it out publicly.

If you want to agree with my statements then don't do it in the context of personal attacks, I won't condone it.

awehr,

What great foresight did he have when he made this statement.

"Anonymous: driving people away with a torrent of words does not necessarily mean you've won."

Never take my need for sleep as an admission of defeat ever again!!!

Better start listening to awehr, he\she is making alot of sense...

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."

compmore, you are of sound mind and make a great argument for both myself and the other members on here. You hold your own in ways I and mroop could only dream of. Knowing this I'll back off and let you do the better job of expessing the other viewpoint. I feel confident putting the keys in you hands.

OK, Gadfly or Gadflies... Your point is why is everybody mad at you and not mroop? People here respect mroop for his knowledge.

You owe people here an apology, Gad.

last thing I'm saying on this thread

there are at least a couple of ways to deal with things. If someone pisses you off you can run from them or you can confront them. If you have an issue with something you can work to change it or you can whine about it and claim it's someone elses fault. If you don't like the way the country/government/site is run you can work to change it or you can be a pain in the ass. this is positive/negative, yin/yang, black/white in action.

seems to me like you have made your decision mr barfly/gadfly/gopsweetie/whatever you decide to register as at the time. you don't have the stones to stand up and be a man so anything you say is talk from a little boy who can act tough on the computer but rolls his window up at red lights cause he's afraid someone will attack him. your not creative, talented or smart. your just a little punk. and you seriously need some help.

I don't know how I'll be able to listen to your music anymore...

"compmore, you are of sound mind..."

There are many (including myself) who'd laugh at that.

I'm not any better, I get caught up in the passon too. I try not to but I'm thankful for people like George who point it out to me. If many others would've said to me what George did I would've been incensed. even though they'd be right. Pride is one of my weaknesses too. that's why it's good to have respect for someone.

by the way, that's some good detective work Lachatte, I tip my hat to you.

Gadfly is jealous of poor lil me! So jealous that he will spend all that time trying to trash me. I guess I should take that as a compliment. I am starting to feel pity for him.

Another day's useless energy spent.

not me, I'm going outside in a bit and set some patio stones and planters. gonna make my front yard look nice.

captdunsel,

How much does one need to bet dollars to donuts that you "sir" are 5 foot 4ish,
endomorphish,midlifed,innate,bouts of indignation, audacious in the face of women and the weak, but startle in the company of real personage.

I should know! Heros come and go from may house everyday.

On that last note I'll call off my dogs.
Woof

"Gadfly is jealous of poor lil me! So jealous that he will spend all that time trying to trash me. I guess I should take that as a compliment. I am starting to feel pity for him."

MMM yeah good comeback after you just had your azz handed to you....On that note I'm off to enjoy the rest of my Sunday..

Yes, you handed my ass to me. You have won the battle of boycott-riaa.com. Do you feel good now? Is there a warm fuzzy feeling in your stomach? Do you feel like you've accomplished something? Now I really feel sorry for you.

what's an "azz". is it like a "zomg!!111one" or a "pwnzor"?

gad
I went to sleep last night after reading your bull shit.
Woke up today reading the same bull shit. But as bull shit goes
your's is pure bull shit. With nothing to say but bull shit. It's like ring around the
rosey. You just never grew up, it's ashes, ashes we all fall down.Nah.
Your just like a five year old. Anyone can go back and put up urls.
What do you really have to say about the Big Easy? If you were Bush, what would you have done?
The Buck Stop Here.
Got to bbq now

Good Morning Boycott-People!-It's actually afternoon, who cares?..Are we all through with gadflysweetiewhoever now? Good..back to the topic at hand....

Listening to Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, and I admire him beyond belief, he's wonderful! He summed it up very nicely as to the speed of this operation.

We all think the rescuing should have happened faster, but serioulsy think about it. As the General stated, you have storm and damage to the left, to the right, and the ocean to the south..you still have a storm racing up the North 24, 48 hours after New Orleans..Helicopters don't work too well in 60 mph winds.....

Also, where do you keep emergency supplies? You might have filled that whole stadium with supplies and the roof tore off..who would know? No one knows where the worst damage is going to hit....So do you keep emergency equipment and supplies in an area that's about to get hit by a hurricane???

One other thing....over the years, and MANY different administrations, New Orleans has tried to get their levee systems fortified...only to be put off, again and again and again..this is not a new thing.

Drat, I have to run...I'll be back (famous last words)

Didn't have too leave after all..

pmmusic

Good point, and welcome to this crazy club by the way, but you mentioned California, and of course that includes San Fransisco, and that whole area sits on fault lines..we all know that whole area could disappear tomorrow..it could happen, just as they said about New Orleans..so how prepared, right now, is California for such an event???? They have earthquakes everyday in those regions...who knows when the BIG ONE will sink them?

Gadfly/GOPSweetie said: "Never take my need for sleep as an admission of defeat ever again!!!"

No, but your repeated failure to address the issues I brought up speaks volumes about you (see my posts of 1:28 A.M. and 2:40 A.M. for the information which you decline to engage).
What's your response to what I said (most recently at 2:40 A.M.)?

- - - - -

Lachatte, you can see your 'warning' for Gadfly has been non-productive. If you have any solid information about who Gafly/GOPSweetie really is, share it, blow his cover -- as I say, IF you have any goods on him. Gadfly doesn't seem to be concerned, even after receiving several fair warnings from you. Why, I'm beginning to wonder.
What did I read from some past thread that George once said about who he thought GOPSweetie was? I may have to check on that.
In the meantime, I think we're kind of waiting for Lachatte to come through. The ball's in her court now.

The World Can't Wait - Drive Out The Bush Regime
http://www.worldcantwait.org/

Mobilize for November 2 demonstration.


Going to see the 40 Year Old Virgin...I need a laugh.

Ah, carla60626 Isn't this Bush's last term anyhow?..isn't he what is known as a Lame Duck President? Unless they are going for impeachment?

Lachatte said (to Gadfly), "I don't know how I'll be able to listen to your music anymore..."

Well, one thing I sort of doubt is that it could be tomsong. (Tom wouldn't do such a thing, would he?)

carla60626 made mention of the The World Can't Wait - Drive Out The Bush Regime November 2 demonstration and myself being the proud "freeper" never hearing about them like most Americans had decided to find out and well they're

Communists!

I could be like George and post pages of facts on them but I'll just break it down as fast as I can.

Revolutionary Communist Party activists — including a handful in Greensboro — are promoting a new campaign to force President Bush from office and reverse the course of his domestic and foreign policy. They hope it will ultimately be more successful than the anti-war movement, which failed to affect the prosecution of the war despite mobilizing wide and deep opposition.

The campaign, whose theme is “The World Can’t Wait! Drive Out the Bush Regime!,” calls for “a massive day of resistance,” including student walkouts, work stoppages and public demonstrations on Nov. 2, the first anniversary of Bush’s reelection.

The campaign’s bill of particulars against the Bush administration includes alleged lying to lead the country into war against Iraq, the use of torture in the anti-terrorism drive and the indefinite detention of immigrants, along with the administration’s promotion of religion and hostility to science. The campaign’s statement likens Bush to Hitler and advocates bypassing traditional electoral activism in the Democratic Party to oust him. (Mmmm this should work well for many who have sons and daughters in the Armed Forces)

The “World Can’t Wait” campaign was launched in Greensboro on July 5 when Trent, Crimson Spectre bass player John Rash and Revolutionary Communist Party activist Robin Hopkins carried a banner in the city’s Fourth of July parade. Five Greensboro-area activists sat down with YES! Weekly on July 21 to describe the organizational foundation of the campaign, their outreach efforts to date, and what they hope to accomplish.

Tim Hopkins, a self-described communist revolutionary who lives in Greensboro, said the original signers of the “World Can’t Wait” statement include members of the Revolutionary Communist Party as well as others who are not members.

Tina Mercado, a resident of Rockingham County who is active in the “World Can’t Wait” campaign, befriended the Hopkinses after the father of her two sons was killed by a Burlington police officer in 2004. She wrote an account of David Baker’s death in Copwatch, a local newspaper with ties to communist activists. Since her sons’ father was killed, she has embraced the revolutionary viewpoint espoused by the Hopkinses.

“I think the cops are out here to maintain the system,” she said. “If David had been a white man out driving near the country club, he wouldn’t be dead. There’s got to be a revolution. It’s not working this way.” Huh! Now it sounds like what's being said on CNN\MSNBC.

YA keeping good company there carla60626....Thanks for the heads up.
To stay far far away from these wackos.

"Every band thinks their something special, but they're not. " John Lennon of Beatle fame thought they were special!!! Bands and artists have to think their special cause it takes Faith to write songs and come up with your Own sound!!!

"I haven't seen one good (Indie) band yet. They all suck." Oh no no no no can't let you get away with that one!!!! The Beatles and a whole lot of other bands were once indie and many times most of these Big Time label bands were rejected by the Big labels at first!!! What makes you think that Paul and John or many others had major label record contracts under their pillow just waiting for the day when it became valid?????? Faith knowing your special keeps you going and of course the fun you have playing live in small clubs and dives honning your talents and writting skills and working for that day you get a chance to get "Discovered" like you never exsisted before that happen that the song you wrote 10 years ago wasn't a hit back then but now that the Big label puts it out now it's a hit????? It takes time for Bands and Artists to develope so the Indie Band you think Sucks today you will be buying their CD 5 years from now!!! Children grow into Adults some good and some Bad. Bands and artists do the same thing in music !!!! So do go around badmouthing people who's only crime is that their growing!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow,

That did turn out like George!

Anyway the term freeper or FReeper
is a Right-wing political activist. So-called, because it is the nickname of the denizens of the ultra-right wing Web site

FreeRepublic.com.

The Left here like to throw it around like they would the term Nazi, Racist, Bigot, Christian,Swiss,Bush,Sharon,troops,

But me myself am proud of such a term and thank the good people that host.

FreeRepublic.com

"Shouts of love from fellow members of boycott-riaa.com for our dear Token opposing viewpointer. RIAA backer and hater of all Indiemusic. mroop..."

ROFL !!! LOLOLLOLOLOL !!!!

I think Mroop is a pompous Ass.
Mroop thinks I am an Anus Wart.
Doesn't mean he isn't right or real close to the mark sometimes.
Doesn't mean he doesn't come up with something I haven't thought of before.
He at least contributes positvely here.
Right wrong or indifferent, each and every one of the regulars that you have pointlessly attacked contribute positively at one time or another, just by sharing their voices.
I remember some of the ( not so nice ) discussions I had with Shadowmom and Carla on the Iraq war and the elections ( clue : we don't agree at all ). We all got to be heard/get it off our chests/ said our pieces. We're all still here and sometimes reach common ground.
You can't divide us with bull.
You can't instigate a screaming match between us with misleading context.
As you have noticed, that poor attempt at stirring dissent has simply shown that despite our disagreements we can all find a way to come together to pound a troll.

"Mroop thinks I am an Anus Wart.
Doesn't mean he isn't right or real close to the mark sometimes. "

ummm, by that I mean ....
correct about some of his legal opinions and stuff. Not necessarily right about me being an anus wart, worded that badly and ... well
oh,
nevermind.

Who is us????

And who are them????

Has Hilary Clinton hit the board???

Sure Right Wing conspiracies abound.

My God it's 10 against 1 already....how much more coming together do you need?

Would it be possible to forget some of the trolls and RIAA/DRM loving idiots for a minute?

I have an idea I'm gonna throw out here we all know about what happened in the aftermath of Katrina we should be concentrating on how we could help maybe set up some kind of donation drive to help the people in need and maybe still promote boycott-riaa.com/Dmusic to let people know who we are who probably didn't know we're heremaybe could send T-shirts or music on CDs as well as other most needed assentials.

Do you feel good now? Is there a warm fuzzy feeling in your stomach? Do you feel like you've accomplished something?

Yes!

Pretty good for somebody facing a 10 to 1 odds gangup. LOL

Don't confuse me with mroop. I'm pro-Indie anti-RIAA.

"Would it be possible to forget some of the trolls and RIAA/DRM loving idiots for a minute?"

You are sooooo right.
It's about time we just iggy the "lidiot", not respond to his rants, and focus on that Nitedreamer. Time to really get down to taking care of our own ( the folks horribly affected by Katrina ), and stop allowing ourselves to be distracted any further.

Not to make light of your post, nitedreamerxp, but would "assentials" be a Freudian slip? Those items would be good later on. First they need water, food, and medicine. Where is all that RIAA toilet paper, though? I know they could use that. Give to the Red Cross...they will get whatever the people need.

Stolen from WilWheaton.net

"As of this writing, there are 200 people registered in the $5 tournament on September 12, and 79 people in the $20 tournament for September 14. Math is hard, but I think that means that, within just a few hours, poker players have already contributed $3620, which is actually $7240 once PokerStars matches the contributions.

That.
Is.
Awesome.

But check this out! Due to overwhelming demand, PokerStars has added two more tournaments:

September 15, 2005 @ 9:30 PM EDT — $50
September 16, 2005 @ 9:30 PM EDT — $100
I will, of course, have prizes for the player who knocks me out in each of the new tournaments, as well. Thank you so much to everyone who has signed up.

Yes, I am a geek.
But, If you like to be entertained while contributing, this is one way ( one of many ).

Lets get some charitable links listed.
Then we can all choose a method that suits us.

Gradflies said "I haven't seen one good (Indie) band yet. They all suck." Now Gradfiles say's "Don't confuse me with mroop. I'm pro-Indie anti-RIAA." WELLLL which one is it dude????? and you call us Hypocrite's?????

Shadowmom thats exactly what I was meaning I was just highlighting some of the things we could do to help they do need everything the highlighting part about promoting us was to get everyones attention but giving those in need need the most important stuff first promoting ourselves could be a side benefit for us as well as feel good we're doing something important.

stilltrying,

What does " " mean?????

"I haven't seen one good (Indie) band yet. They all suck."

as in quotation marks

as in the act of quoting.

as in quoting mroop which was the point.

Go back to college stilltrying!!!!

Gad,
back off everone has a different opinion of whats good geez why do you insist on being a moron amid the pain and suffering people are going through who cares as to whether Indies sound good or not how about the fact that they even get a chance to be heard which is a more powerful theme in of itself and a sign of the times most people except the fact that be it people bands or businesses grow it's a obvious fact of life. So heres the thing good or bad people like different types of music neither you nor I can tell people what to hear.

First of all, I never post anonymously. I am not afraid of having my opinions identified as my own. I take responsibility for my words and refuse to hide behind pseudonyms.

I am still hoping to hear from Carl Hayden, who was moving to the north edge of Lake Ponchartrain (Mandeville) the week before the hurricane hit. He had a job in New Orleans. Just bought a house.

I am also wondering if the musical heritage of New Orleans has been reduced to the handful of artists that were on MSNBC -- Harry Connick, Jr., Aaron Neville and Wynton Marsalis.

We know Fats Domino made it out. Anyone heard from BB King, or Dr. John, or Gatemouth Brown, or Brian Stoltz, or any of the numbers of musicians who undoubtably were in town on any given day in that city?

Boycott RIAA is supposed to be about musicians, which 95% of our audience either has forgotten or simply doesn't give a shit about. Why don't the rest of you go away and bicker about political pointlessness somewhere else, where people give a shit about that childish name-calling piffle.

Dreddsnick is the only one who even mentioned music, his reference to the birthplace of jazz, before nitedreamer suggested that we send t-shirts and CDs (better send CD players, too).

The musicians are going to need guitars. If they had one, it probably washed away and it's going to be a long time before they can afford to replace it so they can go out and start working again. And guitar strings, and drums and drumsticks and amps and patch cords and mics.

One person with talent and an acoustic guitar can make 100 people feel just a teeny bit better, maybe remind them of one more ray of hope.

well put ziemann

"Boycott RIAA is supposed to be about musicians, which 95% of our audience either has forgotten or simply doesn't give a shit about. Why don't the rest of you go away and bicker about political pointlessness somewhere else..."

Sorry to disagree, but, ah, this thread actually IS a "someplace else" in the sense of what has been set aside by Shmoo for the very purpose of getting off-topic, to release steam without marring the other threads inappropriately.

as such.. i proclaim today "sluminum day".

yes sluminum, the smelly metal named after the place in which it's most commonly found.
Light, but lumpy and not very useful, sluminum has a future in novelty products worldwide, such as malleable stress balls and theatre props. : )

gdZiemann,

That is well put and a very thoughtful suggestion I bet some of those displaced homeless musicians landed in phoenix at one of the shelters.

stilltrying,

Just to make sure you get it right!

"I haven't seen one good (Indie) band yet. They all suck." Was Mroop's statement and not my own.

He sides with the RIAA sides most if not all times. I myself am Pro-Indie.

Good Post gdZiemann and you're right we are not chatting enough about the artists hurt in the Big Easy. I sent money through the Red Cross I hope others are doing so to help the suffering as well.

As for post anonymously? Well like after all of George's posts, Mr-Anonymous well he's bringing up the rear.

"As for Mr-Anonymous, well, he's bringing up the
rear."

Speaking of a "rear"...
as if I gave a rat's rear about an opinion from your ego-feeding moderator-wannabe role in this marathon thread.
But I do admit to not ultimately resting easily until we get at the bottom of who you really are.
Already, there is ample evidence that you and GOPSweetie as well as GOPSweetie2004 are all one and the same. But that doesn't satisfy me just yet. I'm still on the hunt.
I am going to make it a mission to determine who else you are, my friend.
Maybe you're Kneo or some other adversary of leflaw, or perhaps you're a regular member (possibly even a musician) in disguise . . . somehow doing dirt for one of three reasons I have previously listed (see my post of 11:18 A.M. today). Anyway, I'm an inquisitive mind that wants to know. Why? Because if our group here doesn't find out, the odds are we'll be faced with continuing to put up with the likes of you at least intermittently from now on!
Come on, folks, we need to band together over this issue . . . or face deterioration.

For my part, I'm a tireless researcher. I love math puzzles. And I'm intent on digging up the truth regarding who Gadfly really is. And I've got the time plus an extra computer to do organizing and crunching for clues.
I also have a few tech-savvy friends I can probably count on to do me a favor (hint) in case I run out of leads or resources, so one way or another, your cover is going to get blown, my dear. You just wait.

Actually, what I'm still waiting for at the moment is Lachatte to come back aboard and, well, DELIVER the goods, lady!
You're a person of fine character.
Do you plan to keep your word?
You've issued an ultimatum to Gadfly, who snubbed you, disregarding your request to cease and diseast causing dissension.
Well, time to show your cards, if you have any.

"diseast"?
no...it's "desist"

"I also have a few tech-savvy friends I can probably count on to do me a favor (hint) in case I run out of leads or resources, so one way or another, your cover is going to get blown, my dear. You just wait."

Come on I'm the only one who doesn't see this is gdZiemann....?

Is that some kind of threat???

Are you threatening me Mr-Anonymous ? Tech-savvy friends as in what? Hackers? Do I have you that scared?

I'd be careful throwing around threats like that George, Mr-Anonymous, gdZiemann, or whatever you proposing here surely is a threat and one I will not take lightly and will hold "you" George personally responsible. I figure ones threats like these are a result of one getting boozed up over a three-day weekend. But watchout, I will make sure to save this thread and anyothers where my personal security is in jeopardy. Now there is a past history of threating both fellow members and public officials outright as well as racial slurs.I will not hesitate to bring matters to the FBI.CIA,Homeland security. Whatever. So I don't mind playing with you all but please for your sakes!!!!!! Lets keep things legal shall we?

Now I have used my wits to combat your political beliefs and have made no threats. The close I've come to personal attacks was calling liberals fishheads and well captdunsel. But he was asking for that one and is one of the rare times I've hit way below the belt.

Again George, Mr-Anonymous, gdZiemann whatever, becareful the actions you invoke. The law as well as freedom of speech "is" on my side and surely will be at "your" door if need be. You people know me well enough.

I mean what I type! Bank on it....

Lachatte, if you are implying that Gad is me, you're barking up the wrong fire hydrant. It's the age old pest Kneo24, and Leflaw could jump that kid real hard if he wants.

Mr. Anonymous is Code Warrior.

I was wondering why Code was the only regular not contributing to this thread. it all makes sense. I knew it couldn't be George. Two totally different writing styles.

Code Warrior!

Yeah, In a way I'm really sadden by that. Thought the poor guy really had the class to stay out of the whole thing. Worse to know he never came at me outright. Should have know he couldn't stay out of the mix.

Whatever my statements still stand.

=known=

Hi, Tom. It's always nice to see you here. That explains why Mr-Anonymous seems so familiar, but why'd you blow his cover? He usually loves a good fight.

And George, if you give me a little more information, I could help by checking on the lists of survivors that are being posted. As has been stated, I do have a lot of time.

Gradflies thank you for pointing out that it was Mroop's statement's and not your's and accept my apology for the misunderstanding as for Mroop's comments Shame on you Mroop you should not say such things about Indies give people a chance to grow!!! As for you Gradfly I have always thought that Boycott Riaa is not the place to discuss poltics because both Dem's and Reb's have sold out to Big music and said to hell with the peoples right's to Fair use!!!! Bush bashing does no good in our fight against what the Riaa is doing!!! Let's bash the real foe the reason why were all here to take a stand against the Riaa and what their doing!!!!! Bash them with Truth and knowledge and shine a light on their rotten business pratice's

No problem stilltrying,

My apology to "you" for roughing you up abit. Nothing really personal, just wanted you to know where I stood.

Good post stilltrying, keep up the good work.

"Dittos" a secert code????? haha

been a good day. didn't waste my time reading crap.

Here you go buttfly. I'll make this short and sweet so you can back down as usual.

your mouth runneth over so I challenge you. we can hold an unsanctioned boxing match between you and I, sell tickets and donate the proceeds to the relief fund for the victims of hurricane Katrina. this way you and I can help in a positive way those who need it, you can stop bitching about everything and this can stop. you claim to be so concerned so here is your chance to prove it.

Cricket,

If so can I play the part as Wyatt Earp?

Will you wear the black hats??

Are you going to be my huckleberry?

Turkey?

By the way the 1950's called and Young Elvis stated explicitly for you to give back his lingo.

Of course or face a RIAA copyright infringement lawsuit.

"He sides with the RIAA sides most if not all times."

I never side with the RIAA, shit for brains. I state my opinion on legal matters and that is all. If I happen to believe that the RIAA has a better case than their opponent in a particular instance then I say so. If I think that the RIAA does not have a better case than their opponent in a particular case then I say so. I don't slant my opinions based upon who I like or don't like. So go fuck yourself. Thank you.

A little something for George
http://www.maconareaonline.com/news.asp?id=11869


Music industry in disarray after the storm
By: Bill Werde
Sun Sep 4, 2005 6:52 AM ET

NEW YORK (Billboard) - As flood waters rose in the days after Hurricane Katrina's August 29 rampage through New Orleans and the Gulf Coast, so too did concern for the myriad musicians, business associates, friends and family in the region.

The scope of the loss and tragedy Katrina caused is clear: It will be years before a locale renowned for its entertainment industry is back to business as usual -- if it ever is again.

For the music industry, the top priority became tracking down the missing. Reports began to surface that Antoine "Fats" Domino, songwriter Allen Toussaint (who penned Patti LaBelle's hit "Lady Marmalade") and others had not been heard from since Katrina touched down. On Friday (September 2), Domino, the 76-year-old Rock and Roll Hall of Fame member, and his family were reported safe, having been rescued by boat from floodwaters near their New Orleans home.

The Neville Brothers, long associated with New Orleans, were fine, but Charles Neville could not locate his three daughters.

But it was not just well-known musicians who were missing or displaced. The Gulf Coast, and in particular the New Orleans region, is also home to a thriving community of local musicians who make a living playing jazz, zydeco and Cajun music, especially for tourists.

"I just can't get ahold of anyone," said Jonno Frishberg, a 45-year-old fiddler who earns his livelihood playing Cajun music gigs. "You're talking about a whole community of musicians like me, with no unemployment insurance and no way to make a living." Frishberg and his wife and two children are all safe. "If I didn't have kids, I'd be looking to head far away from here," he says. "I'll still have to go on the road to make a living. I'm just looking for a way to feed my family."