TROLLS/SHILLS CAN BE USEFUL!

I have BEGGED for a certified RIAA representitive to "take us on" here. They would only end up being "mince-meat" (and they know it!) A true fact of life is that in the overall scheme of things, "our" side is RIGHT and "they" are WRONG! An honest and open public forum like ours is NOT the battlefield "they" could gain many victories upon.

There have been many calls from our readers, visitors, membership, (and sometimes even from within our own 'inner circle') to "ban" or at least, "ignore" the commentary provided by this or that person whom is not agreed with.

Sorry folks, I can't agree with getting that "extreem" about who gets to say what here. YES, you each INDIVIDUALLY on your own can choose to shun this or that other user whom you no longer 'like'

...and even I myself find some of the folks' schtick "hard to take" at times.

But MY rules about things are that as long as they are at least vaguely discussing the Boycott-Riaa issues (even when opposed to the rest of us) ...they BELONG here in our midst!

Hey! Don't we NEED things to bounce off of!

If you read back thru all the stuff ever appearing at Boycott-Riaa, you will find that the BEST writen/articulated arguements FOR our "side" have come out of responses to what were originally percieved as words/opinions from the "other-side."

Trolls and Shills have USES!

Not to say that we should allow vulgar disruptive name-calling and other threatening BS to occur, or anything like that...

...but let's all have a civil modicum of TOLERANCE for the VIEWS and OPINIONS being expressed that do differ from what WE ourselves believe in.

(And then, promptly tear those wrong-headed views/opinions a new a**hole with our better rhetoric and more sound reasoning!)

Shmoo, aka "independentmusician"
of Electric Gypsy
Admin/Mod of Boycott-Riaa
Support Local and Independent Music!

mroop, I am NOT trying to imply that you are a "troll" or a "shill" per se.

(But I admit that even YOU have your uses here!)

o crap. did I piss off someone else?

actually cap, I think it is me who did all the 'pissing off'

schmoo you're too nice to get people pissed off. Capt I'd be afraid to try and piss you off.

the only sure fire way not to piss some people off here is to agree with what they say and stroke their egos. insisting on civil discorse (especially with off topic or personal discussions) seldom does any good and turns you into a leper.

personally schmoo I'm begining to have a lot of respect for mroops opinions when he's not criticial and nasty. he does make a lot of sense at times weather we disagree with his views or not.

who's pissed off now? what did you two do?

comp's right about mroop--he does make a lot of sense. And he can be very critical and very nasty...and impatient...and argumentative...

course I could never get shadowmom pissed off at me no matter how hard I tried. she's too nice. there's my warm fuzzys for the day.

Hey, wait, Shmoo--what idiots are you talking about?

We all need a few of those today, comp. Right back at you. I just heard Aaron Neville on MSNBC. His three nieces are missing ...

"idiots" are whomever you want them to be...

geez, it's just the title of the article and NOT anybody in particular

...do I have to be so careful and literal about every damn word I say???

(I guess I do since I am the freekin admin, lol)

======

I wanna be nasty and have fun calling you all dunderheads "dunderheads" too!

...but I gotta be the duck with the water just rolling off my back!

(But don't worry, I am still having fun and I think we are getting "things done" and being "socially useful" at the same time even still!)

...even IF I gotta be "political" about it all.

(My calls for "nicey nicey" are actually sometimes aimed at myself moreso than at any of you.)

You mean we each get to pick our own idiots?

Can we have our own personal "idiots" list, like our buddy list? And I'm pretty sure when you get mad at us you do NOT call us "dunderheads." 'Fess up.

"personally schmoo I'm begining to have a lot of respect for mroops opinions when he's not criticial and nasty. he does make a lot of sense at times weather we disagree with his views or not."

This is true.
Subtract the name calling. There is no way I can disagree with that.

I speak as one of the aforementioned idiots. I usually know how to handle trolls better, but, this past couple of weeks I lost it a bit. Disagreeing with others views belongs here, thats the essence of debate. It's the cheap shots and name calling that sets me off ( not normally to that extreme however ).
I would never EVER suggest banning anyone.

We all pick your own to call 'idiot' anyway.

NO, I would NOT waste my time learning the html and computer code/gobble-de-guk to provide you or any visitor with that sorta customizable thang.

...this AIN'T no AOL messenger or Yahoo Chat crap!

lol

Boycott-Riaa is not a "service" in that sense of the word!

(ShadowMom, you take the cake!)

Aw, shucks....

Dred, you and I seem to see eye to eye about this issue!

(But NO, I was NOT picking on mroop per se. I was only "picking" on mroop as the example because I know mroopie can 'take it' without thinking it is a personal attack.)

In da chat room for a bit ...

We do seem to.
I realize we weren't picking on Mroop
He is, however , the best example of an opposing argument that usually makes sense.

Dreddsnik, as one dunderhead to another idiot, or vice versa until Shmoo tells us which one we are--yes he was picking on him.

whew, I thought it was just me.

captdunsel, I think you're safe. But I'm probably on Shmoo's shit list right about now, ya think?

I think he's gone to the chatroom right now. I went there a couple of times. The only people there seemed to be mutant children with four-letter vocabularies. The conversation usually was something like this: "hello" "hello?" "well, f*** you" "bye". I don't go there anymore.

I'm there, don't see him tho.

Uh oh maybe I am in trouble then.....

Wifes home from work, sign off time ..
Till tomorrow

OMG

you guys (Shadow and Dred) get a GRIP!

lol

I am about to log out of here... but I need EVERYONE to realize that Boycott-Riaa forums might sometimes "feel" like a 'lasse faire' chatroom because we are so tolerant and open...

THIS IS NOT SIMPLY A DAMN CHAT ROOM!

(We DO have a "chatroom" if you want one folks! In fact, Dreddsnick and ShadowMom both were just talking about it!)

http://www.boycott-riaa.com/chatroom

There's the LINK to it if you are too lazy to look at the left hand side of this page!

=======

GrrrrrAAAAAA!

(love 2 Shad and Dred!)

"But I'm probably on Shmoo's shit list right about now, ya think?"

I can't keep track of the lists I'm on Shadowmom. even shmoo's sometimes. I've never been able to get the chat room to work much , not that anyone would converse with me anyway. I'll just post my views here and go on do something productive.

compmore, you are my voice of sanity in the wilderness. If you're on a bunch of lists, you must be doing something right!

Shmoo: "Let the idiots speak!"

I'm all for that. Let anyone who may appropriately or inappropriately be branded in anybody's mind as a so-called 'idiot' feel free to speak their minds.
Forum freedom at its best.

Mr-Anonymous, we have been speaking. And we will continue to speak. No matter whether Shmoo says we are idiots or dunderheads, or vice versa, we have freedom on this site to speak freely and foolishly, as we may desire. Don't worry, Shmoo, I've got to get some sleep. Tomorrow, I will again speak freely and, most likely, foolishly. And mroop and Raid will be sure to tell me so. But this is a goof thread, in my opinion, and I have really enjoyed it. Shmoo is so cute when he gets his knickers in a knot.

at least somebody likes you comp. there are people in foriegn countries who don't even speak english that phone me up at night and tell me I'm an aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa bad person. wait, maybe that's tech support...

just fu*kin' be sorta in or around being "ontopic" is all we ask.

I got ya topic right here....

ShadowMom, I would love to meet you in a private room if your hubby wasn't looking!

(See, now you all got ME treating our forums as if a silly AOL/Yahoo chatroom...)

(...but seriously ShadowMom, you got any pics? You know where to send em!)

lol

foriegn countries?? Gee Capt I thought it was just some four letter words I hadn't heard before. I feel better now. haha

hey schmoo, I'll send you some pics....

shadowmom is your hubby bigger than me?

Hey shadowmom, didn't we see in in a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader lineup?

Crap,

even in jest I knew it would happen...

we turned this thread into nothing more than a chatroom.

(What is it about my "original" written stuff that makes it all seem "less important/serious" than the copy/paste crap from the outside news-sources?)

Do I get too "personal" with my news/banter/op-eds ...talking to my friends here and not the 'wider' audience who are only reading?

Gilda Radner said:

"nevermind"

sorry

me too. I'll go to bed without supper.

Hey,

Folks, it's ok.

We FEEL like it's 'just us' here because we talk so loose and easy with each other. I don't want to ruin that easy-going banter we have among each other.

(But I do want you all to realize that we have a gazillion readers and that you ARE on a "stage" ...I guess it'sa "reality show" type thingy.)

lol, no pressure, but everything you say MATTERS.

(ask leflaw for the numbers if you really want to know)

I will try to stop freaking out about it now

they've spoken

Actually, gfmlcka, I know for a fact there are a few more dunderheads and idiots here who haven't yet spoken up. And I think Shmoo threatened to inflict some kind of personal damage on me last night while I was peacefully sleeping the slumber of the innocent. *Pictures*--ever since leflaw posted his picture on here, there doesn't seem to be any way to top it, so why try?

"Actually, gfmlcka, I know for a fact there are a few more dunderheads and idiots here who haven't yet spoken up."

really? I thought we were the only ones.

You don't think I forgot you, do you? Dallas Cowboys?? Okay, so the Dolphins stink like dead fish these days, but they're still my team. And I am not and never have been a cheerleader or anything like that, young man. Show a little respect for your elders here!

young man? gee thanks.

welcome

ShadowMom,

"And mroop and Raid will be sure to tell me so."

It's almost saddening to see that some of you think i'm bashing on you just for something to do. Saddening from an intelligence standpoint, I've never seen so many sheep in one place.

I bet, if I was on the side of lets trade files all day, creative commons! fuck the riaa, I'd be welcome in your flock.. No doubt.

Independent,

"I have BEGGED for a certified RIAA representitive to "take us on" here. They would only end up being "mince-meat" (and they know it!) A true fact of life is that in the overall scheme of things, "our" side is RIGHT and "they" are WRONG! An honest and open public forum like ours is NOT the battlefield "they" could gain many victories upon."

It depends on what you consider a victory to be. In the overall scheme of things, your side isnt any more right then HHI, atleast in the matters of law. You hate the riaa, which is perfectly fine. I don't see a problem with them suiing people for Intellectual property theft.

Are any of you painters here? Would it be okay with you, if I copied your painting and just gave it away? Nobody would need to buy yours, They can get mine free. Does that seem fair to you? Think about it for more then 2 seconds. Something you've worked hard on, to be taken a copied and given away, without not a cent coming to you for it. Does it seem that fair to you now? Any programmers among you?

How many of you would churn out code, if you knew a competitor was just going to copy it, resell it, or give it away? You do all the work, you get nothing for it. Not even credit for the work. Somebody else makes a fortune from your ideas and concepts.

Any aspiring book writers? Ask your publisher if they'd be willing to print copies to give away, Tell them your not interested in selling it. If somebody copies your book and resells it, you should be okay with this too. It's what happens when you download/upload a copyrighted song that you don't have permission to have.

Thats what it all boils down too, the artists getting fucked is a bad thing, and certainly does happen, but has very little to do with the lawsuits. The lawsuits are based on the fact that MANY of you are knowingly breaking the law, daring them to come after you.

And another thing, you think by not listening to riaa music that your hurting them? As I said before, 20 teenagers could replace what 100 of you non buying individuals in 3 months time. Expendable cash, not including jobs, monies from mommy/daddy etc.

To claim music this or that sucks simply because it's on an RIAA label shows just how shallow minded some of you really are.

"Something you've worked hard on, to be taken a copied and given away, without not a cent coming to you for it. Does it seem that fair to you now?"

no matter how you paint this picture the end result doesn't change. This is called radio. it's still free.

RaidHHI:

I'm a "programmer", or software engineer. Like most software engineers, I write code for my employer. Although I receive a paycheck, I don't receive a stream of royalty payments that continues indefinitely, even if the software I write continues to be used by various people, for years to come (which is often the case). I get paid once for writing the software and that's it. (One could argue that I continue to receive a stream of payments in the form of paychecks as a result of the profit derived from sales of the software, but that's not true. If I don't keep writing software, I don't get paid.) As a result, I don't have that much sympathy for people who write music, books, software, etc., and expect to sit back and receive a royalty payment every time someone receives that material, until the day they die (and beyond, apparently). Perhaps, if I wrote and marketed software independently, I would feel differently. As it is, I think current copyright law rewards the copyright holder greatly at the expense of the public. Musicians, in particular, are compensated for performing their music, as well as for all sales and public performances of recorded works. I wish I had a deal like that.

You ask, "How many of you would churn out code, if you knew a competitor was just going to copy it, resell it, or give it away?". In a sense, that happens all the time. People write software that duplicates the function of existing software and sell it at a discount, or even release it for free. (For example, MS Word vs OpenOffice, Unix vs Linux, etc.) They may not have stolen the software outright, but they've written code which duplicates much of the functionality. No need to create anything really new. In spite of that, the original developers don't seem to go out of business.

I suppose the argument is that an entrepreneur should be compensated for taking a risk, as opposed to someone like me, who has a regular paycheck. However, it's gone way too far. Copyright should be very limited. For example, what if Microsoft could only hold copyright on their product for, say, 5 years? Would that drive them out of business? No. It would promote the development of competing versions of Windows-like software by other software developers, who wouldn't have to worry about being sued into oblivion by Microsoft. Meanwhile, Microsoft would continue to churn out new versions of their software every couple of years and people would buy it for the same reasons they buy it now.

The problem is with the copyright laws which too generously reward the copyright owner at the expense of the public good.

Preach on IFeelFree! The entertainment corporations are truly, DEFINITELY spoiled under current copywright laws. How in the hell does it make common sense to continue to be paid for the rest of your life AND BEYOND for pieces of work you created a long time ago?

Raid, how long since you completely lost your sense of humor? Sheep have feelings, too. And you don't have to hit us over the head with a hammer...we get you, we get you. We just don't always agree with you.

I've almost all but stopped visiting this website for the very topic written above. But I do check it out every now and then because I feel for the cause.


"A true fact of life is that in the overall scheme of things, "our" side is RIGHT and "they" are WRONG!"

Sums up what I do not agree with here, I personally think that there is common ground somewhere inbetween the two "sides" that is the ultimate answer that everyone can be satisfied with.


"(And then, promptly tear those wrong-headed views/opinions a new a**hole with our better rhetoric and more sound reasoning!)"

I need not add anything else. Do you just want this website to be a select few who only have one collective opinion on everything? Sorry, you're trying to deal with issues where both sides of the arguement can both be "right" at the same time.

So needless to say, after reading this topic, I doubt that I will ever visit this site again.

gee I've built and designed things for my house by going to the local department store and copying the pattern for free without buying it. guess that makes me a crook too.

Raid, copyright infringment is an enormous gray area. downloading for your own use is not morally wrong so I don't give a damn what the special intrest bought and paid for, untested, vauge, law says.

hmm,
Sneaky.

Yeah, he's bad.

baaaaa

Raid:

The point at which the riaa is "wrong" so to speak is in that their pet law, the DMCA, plays favorites with IP.

IP is used to protect technology too, and it takes R&D to make devices which "circumvent" copy protection in order to add new and perfectly legitimate features.

yet, those people are suddenly not only disallowed from receiving payment for their labors, but are subject to statutory damages.

That is where I would nail a rep who came here.

As for trolls.. there is a point at which a guest on the forum overreaches.. like gopsweetie, (basically broad based spamming).. and that is the point at which we should be drawing the line.

So long as you don't occupy 50 posts out of 75 in a single thread, it should not be a problem.

Reminds me, Hey GOPSweetie be sure to listen to the new Stones song Sweet Neo Con.

Gotta love the Stones.

GOPSweetie left us, gfmlcka. I hope for good. Don't invite evil into our house.

RaidHHI is an RIAA agent ignore him.

That's only speculation, because, as you might know, we can't prove he is, and he can't prove he isn't.
All we're left with is to try to gain insights from what he shares of his knowledge and skill...and that's important.
He's got a lot of technical know-how, just as mroop has a bundle of legal expertise to bring to the table.

I'll even go one step further. I say let's appreciate that we have posters like RaidHH1 and mroop with us to help keep us on our toes and to provide useful information and perspectives that we members need.
If I make an enemy writing this, too bad.

I know, some of you would prefer to resist agreeing with me because of their oblique approach, but not as if what I wrote isn't true.

Okay, I made a screwup by writing "their oblique approach"
when I meant "their poignant approach".

compmore,

"Raid, copyright infringment is an enormous gray area."

Actually, this is not the case. Copyright Infringement is simply copying and this is not a grey area. I know of no prosecuted persons trading software who could beat the copyright infringement charges. Your music files are no different. It's copyrighted material that you don't have permission to distribute nor possess. No grey area here to speak of. Either you have permission, or you don't. It doesn't matter if it's a movie, a video game, or a music file. The method of transfer also does not matter.

awehr,

"IP is used to protect technology too, and it takes R&D to make devices which "circumvent" copy protection in order to add new and perfectly legitimate features."

I don't disagree with you, at all. I'm not for the DMCA, don't misunderstand. I'm not against copyrights either. The time span on them should be shorted, but not entirely removed.

This was nicely put; I'm glad to see i'm not the only one who feels this way:

"I need not add anything else. Do you just want this website to be a select few who only have one collective opinion on everything? Sorry, you're trying to deal with issues where both sides of the arguement can both be "right" at the same time."

"The problem is with the copyright laws which too generously reward the copyright owner at the expense of the public good."

I agree. I didn't say Copyright as it currently is was a good or bad thing. All i've said is that if you exchanged copyrighted files without permission, then technically your a copyright infringer.

"That's only speculation, because, as you might know, we can't prove he is, and he can't prove he isn't."

Are you serious? My opinion is obviously different then the majority of you, so I would have to then be a spy? Who's this "we" crap?

RaidHHI is an RIAA agent ignore him.

let me rephrase that. current copyright laws have many gray areas in reguards to infringment. they said the law was on their side for cassette taping, the courts disagreed. they said the law prevented us to legally tape off the TV with VCR's, the courts disagreed. so they got their cronies in Congress to ramrod through the DMCA which is a flawed bill, and now are saying the law is on their side in reguards to digital downloading. the courts have yet to weigh in on all elements of that. sounds like a gray area to me. except for the psudio lawyers who are not experts in copyright laws trying to second guess the courts.

"Are you serious? My opinion is obviously different then the majority of you, so I would have to then be a spy? Who's this "we" crap?"

Maybe not so much.
Show of hands ????
Who REALLY thinks Riad is an RIAA spy ??

I say no.
( my opinion ).

"I'll even go one step further. I say let's appreciate that we have posters like RaidHH1 and mroop with us to help keep us on our toes and to provide useful information and perspectives that we members need."

Also true.
Raid's posts in THIS thread are some really good examples of how things SHOULD go on here. Disagreement, opinion, sans insults or personal attacks.
These can be read. dissected and appreciated.

Raid is not an RIAA spy, nor is Mroop. Raid even goes as far as admitting he's an intentional infringer himself.

"Raid's posts in THIS thread are some really good examples of how things SHOULD go on here. Disagreement, opinion, sans insults or personal attacks."

All except the personal attacks. there is NEVER, let me repeat, NEVER under any circumstances any excuse for launching into personal attacks against someone else becsue they may be misguided or differ on their opinions. that is not acceptable.
I'm as popular on this site as they are because I stood up for decencyand civility in a heated debate a while back and it ruffled the feathers of a few inflated egos of someone important.

"Sans personal attacks" = minus personal attacks.

I meant his posts in THIS particular thread were exemplary because they did NOT contain overt personal attacks.
Thats what I was trying to say Code.

Dreddsnik,

" I meant his posts in THIS particular thread were exemplary because they did NOT contain overt personal attacks."

What you dismiss as a personal attack (which suggests you should be thicker skinned, this isn't preschool) are not really personal attacks. They are critizations of your knowledge, or the knowledge you laughingly claimed to possess. Mirc and IRC being but one example.

As I said in another post, I'm not interested in a popularity contest. I'm interested in the facts.

compmore,

"I'm as popular on this site as they are because I stood up for decencyand civility in a heated debate a while back and it ruffled the feathers of a few inflated egos of someone important."

George, Code or someone else?

That's right,
Evry idot in the wrld knows something
\\|||///
Y U
//||\\
DN'T my Daddy told me so.
//||\\

they know who they are

RaidHHI,

I think captdunsel, code, gdZiemann, Shadow, and leftlaw are all one and the same person.

Larry's idea of increasing membership maybe??

Shadow,

I hope you attack the the problems done there in New Orleans with the same zeal you had for advocating aide to Africa.

http://www.boycottriaa.com/article/17413

Maybe African-American's are not cosmopolitan enough for your worldview. I'm sure "OUR" people could have used that money you and Bono pushed for.

Oh! so this isn't a total non-Boycottriaa
"The RIAA Bites"

down

Well, what's right and what's wrong is that about the legality and the illegallity.

What is defently wrong is of course, uploading copyrighted material on the internet. That's piracy. What's also illegal is reproducing the copyrighted material, such as reproducing the song in your own form and uploading on the internet. That's copyright infringement.

But there's also a wrong side of the market plans. The copyright holders should NOT hamper technology by putting on restrictions when someone purchases a material, but can't make personal copies. This is true in the digital age.

There is a right and wrong to copying. The right of copying is personal use. Personal uses include copying a CD into a digital format so that I can import the music into a video game. That's interactivity personal use. Is it copyright infringement or piracy? No. It is exactly like adding your own topping from another product and placing it on icecream.

Other right copying includes importing your CD on your hard drive (storage), copying your music onto your iPod (Taking the music with you). Copying a CD for backups is preservation copying. these are the types of personal use copying, and those are the RIGHTS when copying. Even making 25 copies for backup use is OK, as long as you are not giving the copies to your friend, because you OWN the origional genuine copy.

But what's WRONG when copying is simply, without the author's permission, is making 25 copies and giving them to friends. That's piracy. But why are people getting sued? because these people who are using P2P networks are ripping their CDs to MP3 format and uploading them to the internet where thousands of others download your music.

But there is a wrong thing to do when it comes to content providers. The content providers must respect technicallogical developments. When in doubt, put a LEGAL option when it comes to filesharing. That's what Song BMG and EMI are doing. Hopefully, legal filesharing could be easily accessable, so that I can rip my CD in any format (given that the ripped file is encrypted with interoperable open-source DRM and still allows to securely rip and burn unlimited CDs while it hampers piracy). These CDs won't work in other people's player, but the players that you own. But there's software that you "Pay per burn", where you copy a CD to give to a friend, while the artists get the royalty fee every time you copy a CD to give to a friend.

Hopefully, Sony BMG may release a software that lets me securely rip the red-book first session on the copy-protected CD so that I can have the flexibility to rip it in a compatible format (still, it's DRM protected). I am sick and tired of the crappy WMA files, and I want to rip it in the format that I want to have.

Nevermind that list of names, how about

awehr
CherishTruth
autodidact
gfmlcka
carla60626
TheSherminator
pinemikey
Dreddsnik
rightwingnutjob

Could all these people be one guy posting under different names? Chilling!

Scary part is they all seem to think the same so who knows maybe it is one guy.

huh?

I'm a bot now am i?

interesting.

Now that you brought up New Orleans!

Before all the LeftWingers we all know reside here start blaming Bush for what happened in the Gulfport, I'd like to point out the fact the city is a Democratic haven.

Democrats
Mayor Ray Nagin
http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=1

and

Gov. Kathleen Blanco
http://gov.louisiana.gov/

Both got out of dodge before Hurricane Katrina struck. Unlike the 911 attacks There didn't seem to be a Rudy Giuliani amongst any of them. We can only hope they come out of hiding by the time you write your displeasures.

"Hopefully, Sony BMG may release a software that lets me securely rip the red-book first session on the copy-protected CD so that I can have the flexibility to rip it in a compatible format (still, it's DRM protected)."

Ha ha. you're obsessed with this. it's not protected. it'll be cracked and the street corner pirates will still flood the black market with their stuff. But.... keep going ahead and saying this because you can make a fortune off the industry if they believe you and buy it. that's less money they'll have.

"To claim music this or that sucks simply because it's on an RIAA label shows just how shallow minded some of you really are."

The "product" the RIAA is producing sucks because it is infected with DRM. All of my 20th century media still works fine, but if I buy the new Foo Fighters CD, it'll be crippled with the latest lame attempt to limit my ability to move it and store it in the manner of MY choosing.

I'm not buying anything copy-protected and if it comes from a major label, it cannot be trusted.

It's not even about the music on the CDs, it's about the principles behind the cartel.

Raid, you can listen to whatever the hell you want. None of us really gives a rat's ass any more than you seem to care about the true purpose of this site.

You're not interested in the facts at all, and there is a growing crowd of people that seemingly feels the same.

"I personally think that there is common ground somewhere inbetween the two 'sides' that is the ultimate answer that everyone can be satisfied with."

If you think there are two sides, you don't get it.
If you think this is about p2p, you don't get it.
If you think this is about plastic pop stars, you don't get it.
If you think this is about the quality of the music on major label CDs (or lack thereof), you don't get it.

It is about making the difference between profit and loss for the major labels because the best thing that can happen to music is the destruction of the current despicable manner in which the labels now operate and the negative impact it has had on every generation of musicians since 1920.

This will be year six of the decline. The industry still doesn't recognize the outrage of the average consumer -- because there isn't one.

Loadcarrier, who would have thought that people who think alike would be part of the same message board? Chilling!

Loadwarrior, Rightlaw, and ShadowMomsShadow are all one person. Take a wild guess.

jesus this thread went downhill.

I'm guessing we've heard from this person before. recently.

Dnote, capt--give me one minute.

Shadow you really need to find a hobby you are here way.........wayyyy! To much.

Oh for crying out loud here we go again, and I'm never going to get my questions answered..someone want to clue me in? And if said troll refers to me as a skunk just one more time.....I'll, I'll..well I don't know what I'll do, but I'll be really, really angry! NOT!

ShadowMom,

Our house.
It's a very,very,very fine house.
With two cats in the yard, life used to be so hard.

Just kidding

gfmlcka, we may be considered the Borg by some, but I have no clue what that's supposed to mean.

George,

"The "product" the RIAA is producing sucks because it is infected with DRM. All of my 20th century media still works fine, but if I buy the new Foo Fighters CD, it'll be crippled with the latest lame attempt to limit my ability to move it and store it in the manner of MY choosing."

What are you talking about? The new foo fighters cd tries to load an exe on a windows system. It does absolutely nothing on a mac; Which is I believe what your using. So, using your mac you can store it in any manner of YOUR choosing.

I knew you had alterior motives George, You don't even try to hide them. You just pass off personal, obviously based on ignorance in this case, commentary to try to prove your side. You neglect to mention your own failure in the music business, which is why your primarily so anti-riaa. It has very little to do with the lawsuits. It's a personal vendata for you.

That's true, of course, about what Raid wrote about the Mac.
BTW, Raid, have you been a visitor to George's own website?

I have found that going back a year or so into some of the past 'issues' of the forums of Boycott-RIAA is very helpful in getting a more complete picture of the perspectives of many of what might be called "the regulars" who post most frequently.
George comes across as knowledgeable and insightful. I'm willing to cut him some slack for a rare slip-up.

MrAnonymous,

"That's true, of course, about what Raid wrote about the Mac.
BTW, Raid, have you been a visitor to George's own website? "

Yes. George was at one point, this site's administrator.
Normally I would cut anyone some slack, but this isn't the first time George has posted biased material without researching it in the slightest. He really does have a personal grudge against the riaa.

Yes, he does have a grudge against them...and I wish I knew where he once posted a litany of compelling reasons to justify how they are unfair to music artists (the ones that are under contract to them, and the ones that aren't).

""The "product" the RIAA is producing sucks because it is infected with DRM. All of my 20th century media still works fine, but if I buy the new Foo Fighters CD, it'll be crippled with the latest lame attempt to limit my ability to move it and store it in the manner of MY choosing."

Let's break this down a bit ....

"The "product" the RIAA is producing sucks because it is infected with DRM. "

This seems to be Georges main point.
No mention of PC or MAC. Just this simple opinion. My opinion ? It's not the ONLY reason, but a damn good one.

So then, From RAID ...

"What are you talking about? The new foo fighters cd tries to load an exe on a windows system."

George was talking about DRM. The Foo Fighters CD tries to load an .EXE in Windows. This is DRM. Nope, doesn't do anything on a MAC, but still DRM. Doesn't affect a walkman, or a home stereo, but it's still there, and it's still DRM. Whether or not George uses a MAC is not relevant to whether most modern CD's have DRM. Your statement does not invalidate Georges opinion, and doesn't require all THAT much research.It appears that your merely wanted something, ANYTHING, in georges post to pick apart bevause you have some sort of "personal grudge" against george.
Nope, george didn't slip. You just had to work hard to find something to attack him with, and it was pretty weak.

" I knew you had alterior motives George, You don't even try to hide them. You just pass off personal, obviously based on ignorance in this case, commentary to try to prove your side. You neglect to mention your own failure in the music business, which is why your primarily so anti-riaa. It has very little to do with the lawsuits. It's a personal vendata for you."

I don't know why I'm wasting my time on this.

The only failure I've had in the music business was an ill-conceived nightclub I tried to open in 2003. Pretty much every other project I've worked on in the last 33 years has gone exactly as planned.

You are right about one thing, this has nothing to do with the lawsuits. They fucked with me first.

If this had been a personal thing, I would have stopped when my personal problem was solved. If it was a personal thing, the name of my band would be in that story.

But I knew that if I was having a problem, odds are that there were others like me experiencing the same problem for the same vague reasons.

Until then, I really didn't give a rat's ass about the RIAA.

We ended up selling about 200 or so CDs, which isn't bad since we only ever played out twice, once opening up for an 80s band called The Outfield and then a one-hour show in a bar.

The CD was our first effort. We did not expect anything out of it and no one in the band was prepared to even attempt to tour. We sold as many CDs as we deserved to for the effort that was put into it.

In the process, I found a large pile of bullshit and lies, exaggerations and twisted data being issued to, and accepted by, the general media as fact.

I see the entire series of complaints and actions by the industry against mp3 files, CD-Rs, peer-to-peer, refusal to license, lawsuits, and every other tangential issue that has come up in the last three years as an orchestrated effort to close off the free global distribution by independent acts in the name of protecting themselves against piracy.

I see a monopolistic, anti-competitive industry which has a stranglehold on market access points. I see hundreds of thousands of indies that have had their only available promotional outlet condemned, berated, and criminalized.

After you get past that, THEN you discover how ugly the business really is. I've watched my former heroes die in poverty, ignored by the sharks that fed off of them.

There's a reason the old stars tour and perform until the day they die. They can't afford not to.

This has nothing to do with the lawsuits at all.

I might add that when my problem with the retail outlet came up, the Foo Fighters had it posted on their bulletin board before anyone else. Someone in England wrote to tell me about it.

So, regardless of my opinion of their music, I like the Foo Fighters on a personal basis.

Their CD has DRM on it. That is a fact.

Dreddsnik,

" Nope, george didn't slip. You just had to work hard to find something to attack him with, and it was pretty weak."

You are such a stupid shit... George was complaining about the new cd being a problem because it has DRM. I know George uses a mac, he's mentioned this before. I also know the cd in question doesn't do anything to a macintosh computer. Nothing at all. He can do whatever he likes with the cd using a mac. He can also do whatever he likes with the same cd using windows, so long as either auto-run is disabled or he holds down shift. His whining about DRM is pretty weak, Had he taken a clue and checked it out. but no, Like your typical stupid consumer; He has to make a post and whine about DRM locking him out of the fuckin cd. And along comes another stupid shit (you) to try and defend his reasoning. No wonder this lame ass excuse for DRM works so well, So many ignorant/stupid/whatever consumers!

George,

"Their CD has DRM on it. That is a fact."

Yes, it's also a Fact; the DRM is windows based only. On a mac, which your using, the DRM is worthless. That's a fact!

"I might add that when my problem with the retail outlet came up, the Foo Fighters had it posted on their bulletin board before anyone else. Someone in England wrote to tell me about it."

And just like a sheep, you blindly accepted whatever information they told you, and proceeded to create a rant here on boycott-riaa.com about it. Telling us why we should avoid the cd, because it has this big bad drm, Which you knew jack fuckin shit about,but that didn't stop you from talking as if you knew something about it. Fuck, you made an article about it!

Many of you pundits suffer from what we call in the vx/av scenes as false authority syndrome. It happens alot, in many fields. On more then one occasion, you or independent makes a damning post about something you heard 2nd, or 3rd hand. No effort at all is made to fact check it. At the same time, you whine about the major media basically ignoring you, and not fact checking their articles. Pot kettle black, You do the same fuckin things they do. Misleading.

Independent,

""our" side is RIGHT and "they" are WRONG! An honest and open public forum like ours is NOT the battlefield "they" could gain many victories upon."

An honest and open public forum? Dude, you have people posting about drm as if they are an authority on it; they don't know shit... You have idiots using the word troll as if they just learned the word or something, Pity they skipped memorizing the definition.

From a technological and legal standpoint, you would get your ass handed to you by an RIAA rep. You can't even handle Mroop and myself. And were not even your enemies. So talk your shit if you want, give the troops a moral boost. INeedAlover will surely offer you some advice based on his/her own interpretation of the AHRA; which leads me to question his/her reading comprehension skills, but that's another topic entirely.

Then you have users like Dreddsnik, who is a nobody; who is always going to be a nobody, trying to score some street credit with his pseudo l33t bullshit. It's sad. You guys are a loose group of village idiots.