In my opinion, if we must conceed the use of the term "piracy" in this debate, then, BY GUMMIT ALL, let's define it PROPERLY!

PIRACY = Deliberate copyright infringement for the PURPOSE of making a profit without the intent of paying the fair and due royalty/amount to the TRUE copyright holder (songwriter/creator.)

PLEASE NOTE that the definition posited above does NOT include folks who share a song with others via p2p. (It MIGHT apply to the p2p service/application ...depending on the use thereof by said service/application.) (Very similar to what the recent MGM v Grokster SCOTUS decision stated!)

...and that is just for STARTERS!

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Let's all get together and change the perception of the term/word "piracy" in the lexicon of the world. The mass media have been trying to define it at the behest/on behalf of the TRUE copyright abusers for several years now... unfortunately, taintedly, the word HAS entered the minds of the people. Let's DEFINE it and shape the exact meaning behind it and deprive the cartel of thier intended use.

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If done FOR PROFIT without the TRUE copyright holder's consent, the copyright infringement can/shall be called "piracy."

(Simple enough? Do you agree? Does this definition need more modification to be fair to all sides?)

Tom, Code, somebody...

Please feel free to edit the exact wording of this post (and the "Redux" article below)

...and, stick on a .jpg/graphic/image or whatnot if you have anything good to share.

(I admit that I suck at adding pics to my postings. Most of the time when I try, I fubar it up and have to have fu-dog fix things, so I don't even bother with the more complex html anymore.)

Agreed

that definition would make most of the music and movie company's pirates themselves

...uh, are they not?

"We have fought against that corrupted meaning of the word being substituted inaccurately in place of the sometimes/somewhat more accurate term "copyright infringement" ... but, to be honest, we FAILED"

The industry has been calling everyone pirates for at least 80 years. This site has been here for five years.

They had a 75-year head start.

course they are. getting it to stick is another thing

Aw, but...but...saying you're a pirate is ever so much more exciting than saying you're a copyright infringer. Most people don't even seem to know what that means. They look at you like you just said child abuser, and attempt to leave the room quickly.

What is the source of your definition? Here is what dictionary.com says:

"The unauthorized use or reproduction of copyrighted or patented material: software piracy."

This would cover p2p. This bitching about this use of the word piracy is just plain silly. There is a legal definition and a vernacular definition. Get used to it. Get over it.

And then there is your repeated misunderstanding of the RIAA's use of the word "illegitimate" and your false claim that it applies to the independent artists. This is a patently false. Please stop it. Thank you.

Ive stated before that the best way to handle this term would be to just use it casually and try to change its meaning - away from 'murderous pirates with cutlesses' and towards 'casual downloaders who dont harm anyone, everyone does it.' We might even get pirate redefined as 'the popular person who hands out free movies at work/school'

To be fair to the media industry, we did get 'sharing' well established - though I have yet to see one of their representatives slip and use it. And, dispite their constant use of the word 'theft', it just doesn't seem to get established.

mroop's quote is from the MROOP dictionairy of vernacular definitions. How's it going vern?

"This bitching about this use of the word piracy is just plain silly."

perhaps, but why does every judge reprimand the industry lawyers when they use it in court if it's so legitimate?

it's in the dictionary because it's been a popular catch word forced on us over years of entertainment industry abuse.

I remember years ago teachers scolded us for using the word ain't. that word because so popular and widely used it finally made it into the dictionary though many felt it didn't belong.

Language changes. 'Pirate' is slowly but steadily losing its negative connotations.

That depends on which side of the DMCA you stand on, goldenpi. Given their way, the entertainment industry will make sure it stays negative.

True shadowmom however I have to agree with goldenpi. The more people who engage in filesharing and the more the industry yells about it, people will get desensitized to it. Those who file share don't consider themselves bad IE pirate isn't a bad thing. My wife hates being called Madam. she says it makes her sound like a woman of ill repute. however years ago it was a title of respect.

A little tidbit from my college linguistics class. the phrase man and wife in wedding cerimony's was under attack by feminists. they claimed it made the woman appear to be owned by the man. however in the old english before the great vowell shift the word Wif (which Wife came from) was the word for woman. so origionally the wedding vowels were man and woman in meaning however in time those meanings changed. however the tridition lived on untill someone said it was sexist. which is why most men scratched their heads in amazement.

Language changes.

The legal definition is murder or robbery on the high seas under color of authority.

"There is a legal definition and a vernacular definition. Get used to it. Get over it."

So we can make up our own defintions then. Ok. Then Mroop means - prostrate cocksucker. How's that. Has a nice ring to it, don't ya think.

If one says it loud enough and long enough, they'll start to belive you...

"mroop's quote is from the MROOP dictionairy of vernacular definitions. How's it going vern?"

I quoted dictionary.com. Maybe you missed that? Or maybe you saw it and are just being a tool? Btw, I just checked Black's Law Dictionary. This is the dictionary used by lawyers. In addition to the high seas definition there is this:

"The term is also applied to the illicit reprinting or reproduction of a copyrighted book or print or to unlawful plagiarism from it." Note - My Black's is old so it doesn't include software piracy.

"perhaps, but why does every judge reprimand the industry lawyers when they use it in court if it's so legitimate?"

Like I said, there is a legal definition and a vernacular definition. When in court you have to use the legal definition.

"So we can make up our own defintions then."

Of course we can make up our own definitions. How do you think language changes? Do we still talk like they did in the 13th century? Of course not. Language is not static. It changes because of the way we use it.

"And then there is your repeated misunderstanding of the RIAA's use of the word "illegitimate" and your false claim that it applies to the independent artists. This is a patently false. Please stop it. Thank you."

When is the last time you saw us use this "repeated misunderstanding"? Personally, I dropped the issue after Mitch Glazier publicly admitted that every web site by every independent artist is, indeed, legitimate. That was at least two years ago.

I would like to see the RIAA stop saying they represent the "US recording industry". It is patently false. They represent companies from Japan, England, Canada and France. Please stop.

I would like the RIAA to stop saying they are trying to protect the artists. It is patently false. The RIAA has demonstrated over and over again that its members do everything they can to give the artists as little as possible for as long as possible.

"When is the last time you saw us use this "repeated misunderstanding"?"

I saw shmoo do it a couple weeks ago and it irked me. Especially when a couple more people jumped in to say, "Yeah! We are legitimate!"

I'll agree with you on the last 2 paragraphs.

Frankly.... this is a battle that we cannot win, as we are on the outside looking in so to speak. Our best shot in acheiving this is by using independent media, such as Reuters(or whatever it's called) as here in the US... it won't happen. They are as much in the pockets of the industry as anyone else. If they wern't then they would have been quickly taken over. I can promise you that much right there in and of itself alone.

I myself, I shall continue to download music. I am not reproducing it for anyone else, nor am I selling it for a profit to any third party source. I do it for the sheer sake of the enjoyment of myself and those that are my peers. Like at a party, because my winamp has some kick ass plug ins. While I agree that the term being used and how it is being used is incorrect.... it's still a battle that most likely, in my eyes, will not be won.

If burning CD's and the ilk is such a bother.... why don't they go after the companies that make it possible to burn CD's and stuff like that? That woul nip it all in the bud right there, wouldn't it?

Just for the record, I was kidding. At least about the prostrate part.

When I was 13 my best friends mom kept calling him Nino. She had been doing it since he was a toddler but by the time he was 13 or 14 it became embarassing. In any event in the course of arguing about it with his mom, my friend suggested to his mom that he should be able to make up a name for her. She agreed. well I can't remember what he said, but is was obscene and she hit the roof. It was quite uncomfortable and quite funny at the same time.

Did your friend live to be 14?

I know I wouldn't have.

Not me, either, comp. My mom never spanked me, or hit me, or used any kind of corporal punishment on me. She didn't have to. All she had to do was use my first and middle names together, and I knew I was dead meat. Melted like the witch in the Wizard of Oz. My daughter is the same way. It's a matter of respect, but it starts when they're small, not when they're 13 or 14. By then, you've lost them.

haha. my dad was a strict disiplinarian. but very loving. one thing he demanded was to treat mom with respect. he had a zero tollerance about that. I did get spanked when I was out of line. didn't hurt me, (except at the time.). but the first and middle name was also a very good deterent. Mom was good at that. She's the only person who still gets away with calling me by my nickname. don't ask

unfortunatly kids to go astry as teens sometimes reguardless of how good of a parent we are.

Not only do I find the article amusing, but George defending himself is highly funny. Especially since he recently called me, "a fucking pirate". If your going to try to be the good guys, atleast use the terms properly yourselves before you suggest that others should do so. you only look silly otherwise.

hats off to you George, but by codewarriors own defintion, I don't qualify.

Gdziemann,

"The industry has been calling everyone pirates for at least 80 years. This site has been here for five years."

And in that 5 years time, what made you decide to label me a pirate? I'm really curious. I don't sail the high seas. I don't resell bootleg materials, how do I technically qualify as a pirate then?

"how do I technically qualify as a pirate then?"

Upon what acts do you believe GZ was basing his accusation that you were/ are a pirate? In other words what did you do?

He lived to be 14 and beyond. If I remember correctly she ran away screaming. Of course, even though my friends comment was over the top, he was nonetheless justified, in that if she can make up arbitrary names for people then others can make up names for her.

raouldude I'm going to guess off the top of my head that you are not a parent. No criticizm intended I just observe that no parent would justify that kind of disrespect from their child. I certinly wouldn't.

my dad was not politically correct nor did he hide on the moral high ground. If I screwed up he was pretty quick to correct. if that meant a beating then it was delivered post haste. maybe that's why I'm such an asshole now....

I still hate the use of the word "illegitimate" when used to describe independent music (as opposed to RIAA music.)

YES, for a while, the RIAA goons WERE flinging that word around with an abundant frequency intending that implied meaning. (But, as George pointed out, that was a while back.)

Another, more suptle piece of misinformation from the RIAA is equating 'free music' with 'illegal music'.

As a quick example, five minutes of browsing the propaganda of musicunited reveals: "Most parents would be horrified if they walked into a child's room and found 100 stolen CDs... However, these same parents think nothing of having their children spend time online downloading hundreds of songs without paying a dime."