I've become the default writer to do the "holiday" articles, and since this is the 4th of July holiday weekend, I wanted to take a few minutes to reflect on this.

The United States, has traditionally wanted to paint itself as the "Defender of Freedom" around the world. Recently, we have been told that we are about "spreading democracy" around the world as well. For the moment, I will ignore that technically, we are a constititutional republic and NOT a democracy, and look at exactly WHAT we are spreading these days.

We are seeing a trend in state courts and federal courts, as well as the Supreme Court, to decrease our "freedoms and liberties". The recent "eminent domain" decision is just one in what has become an ever increasingly long list of decisions that negatively impact the freedom and liberties of citizens.

Freedom does not equate with an ever increasing list of laws that tell you what you either cannot do, or what you must do. For better or worse, constraining legislation, or legislation to force you to do something, by definition is decreasing your freedoms.

It is my belief that the Founding Fathers would be aghast at what our nation has become, and probably, both liberals and conservativss can agree by finding SOME things they find are unacceptable these days, and beyond what the Founding Fathers would have planned (but of course, the Founding Fathers also believed that only white, landing owning males should be active participants in the political process).

My perception is that, in general, the big pool of freedom that we are supposed to enjoy as citizens, is drying up, little by little, bit by bit.

In another 10 years, I believe we will look back at the 1970s and say.."Those were the good old days, the "salad" days, of our country."

Well...as always, I COULD be wrong ( smile ).
Here are a few quotes I thought were apropos -

"I have often asked myself why human beings have any rights at all. I always come to the conclusion that human rights, human freedoms, and human dignity have their deepest roots somewhere outside the perceptible world. These values are as powerful as they are because, under certain circumstances, people accept them without compulsion and are willing to die for them.
- Vaclav Havel "

"Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.
- Mahatma Gandhi "

"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe "

"Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth.
- John Fitzgerald Kennedy U.S. Democratic politician and president "

"Many a boomerang does notreturn but chooses freedom instead.
- Anonymous "

"There is no such thing as a little freedom. Either you are all free, or you are not free." - Walter Cronkite quotes (American Journalist well known for his role as a television news anchor, b.1916)"

And finally, in honor of all the men and women, American brothers and sisters, who are on foreign soil and on American soil, serving to protect me and you today, I wanted to salute you, thank you for your service, and dedicate this poem to you all...

" Freedom Is Not Free

I saw the flag pass by one day, it fluttered in the breeze.
A young marine saluted it, and then he stood at ease.
I looked at him in uniform, so young, so tall, so proud.
With eyes alert and hair cut square, he'd stand out in any crowd.

I wondered how many men like him had fallen through the years.
How many died on foreign soil, how many mothers' tears.
How many pilots' planes shot down, how many died at sea.
How many foxholes were soldiers' graves. No, freedom is not free.

I heard the sound of taps one night while everything was still.
I listented to the bugler play and felt a sudden chill.
I wondered just how many times taps had meant "amen."
When a flag had draped a coffin of a brother or a friend.

I thought of all the children, of the mothers and the wives,
of fathers, friends, and husbands with interrupted lives.
And I thought about a graveyard at the bottom of the sea,
of unmarked graves in Arlington. NO, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE...

||Kelly Strong, 1981||"

From deep in the sticks of the Lone Star State...I'm sending out a wish to all for a happy, safe, and peaceful 4th of July to each and every one of you.

I sincerely appreciate the support all of you have given to the movement, and to the sites, and those of you who have been visiting Boycott-mpaa.com , a big "Thank you".

Have a safe, joyous, happy, and wonderful weekend.

CodeWarriorz Thoughts
http://codewarriorz.blogspot.com

"I have often asked myself why human beings have any rights at all. I always come to the conclusion that human rights, human freedoms, and human dignity have their deepest roots somewhere outside the perceptible world. These values are as powerful as they are because, under certain circumstances, people accept them without compulsion and are willing to die for them.
- Vaclav Havel "

Just another way of saying that we "are endowed *by our Creator* with certain unalienable rights..." -- equates to "have their deepest roots outside the perceptible world"
-----

I don't know why this comes to mind as connected with July 4, except that I am put in mind of a patriotic Iraqi, who died recently, apparently as a result of friendly fire from an American military sniper. The incident is still under investigation.

But Dr. Yassir Salihee was a physician, and more recently a reporter for Knight-Ridder, taking very dangerous assignments to cover events inside Iraq, to show the world what was happening. He was excercising one of our most cherished freedoms -- freedom of the press and freedom of speech, and unfortunately was the victim of unhappy time and chance.

This is not a bad time to think about his story, and the fledgling nation we have liberated and taken under our wing. And to think about those who have paid the price, both American and Iraqi, for the regime change and the birth of hope for their people.

Dr. Salihee: Translator and friend

Freedom is very costly, after two hundred years we have become a bunch of sheep. We let Congress and the Senate have to much control over our freedoms since 9-11. Terrorist,terrorism are the key words. The French fought in vietnam for x amount of years.Then were took it over. The key words then were commie, communist. A Saudi Arabian dissident Osama bin Laden masterminded Twin Towers attacks. So we invaded Afghanistan and went after him. Only to take our resources to Iraq. The key words there are terrorism,terrorist and now Iraqis die daily in attacks by insurgents. Insurgents you say, I say the Iraq baathist party are the insurgents for the most part. Half truth are what we hear and read about in the news. As for the Iraqi people I hope they get their freedom. We are now trillions in dedt and the corporations getting richer. Wielding more control over our goverment with each passing month. While the middle class and the poor are losing it all. Freedom is going to be just an illusion my friends. If we do not follow them like sheep we are Un-American.Speak up, let your voices sing out softly be an American, As Roosevelt tells us to “speak softly but carry a big stick,” That big stick is your voice and vote. Let Freedom ring, but Don't Tread on me, rights anymore.
So this weekend if your near a V.A. Hospital. Take an hour or two of that busy day, and visit with a vet and just say Thank You.

In another 10 years, I believe we will look back at the 1970s and say.."Those were the good old days, the "salad" days, of our country."

Yeah, those were the good ol' days. The National Guard could still shoot college kids on campus. Nixon. J Edgar Hoover. And halfway through the 70's, disco was born.

Great times.

America. Land of the free Indians.

Just today, I received a questionaire from my congressman, wanting to know my position on immigration. He thinks the thing to do is "secure our borders and enforce our immigration laws."

I live in Arizona. So does he. My response was that anyone who did not have Native American ancestors should shut the fuck up when it comes to immigration.

Open question. Are Canadian Indians called Native Canadians?

As my grandfather was a Native American...I say Canadian Indians (the retarded word used for indigenous peoples because a retard Italian thought he was in India)and...THIS IS REAL HOMELAND SECURITY....CLICK LINK
http://www.columbiana.org/WebPageGraphics/Homeland-Security.gif

actually, i thought he was a spanish retard.

To me the 4th represents one thing: a painful reminder of the free nation we USED to have.

Happy July 4th holiday guys!

Canadian Indians are usually addressed as Indians, or Canadian Aboriginals. Have a great weekend!

I'm still thinking about it, Code. Depends on what happens in the next few days--Rove, G8, Supreme Court. Fork in the road. Wrong choice and all us ladies will have to straighten out things again.

Most people have never really read much about Columbus. He died broke and in disgrace. He conned the Queen of Spain to fund his little adventure about finding a shorter route to the Indies. Some people are trying to claim he was Portugese (http://www.apol.net/dightonrock/ columbus_was_100_portuguese.htm )
but most believe he was born in Genoa Italy ion 1451 ("The best available evidence suggests that Christopher Columbus (Cristoforo Colombo
in Italian; Cristobal Colon in Spanish) was born in Genoa in 1451" from
http://www.italian-american.com/columbus.htm ).

More from http://www.answers.com/topic/christopher-columbus
"Born: 1451
Birthplace: Genoa, Italy
Death: 20 May 1506
Best Known As: Discoverer of the New World
Also Known As: Cristobal Colon (Spanish) and Cristoforo Colombo (Italian)"
Also, ibid.
"Columbus as a villain
Much criticism focuses on the continuing positive Columbus myths and celebrations (such as Columbus Day) and their effects on American thought towards present-day Native Americans. Official celebrations of the 500th anniversary of Columbus's first voyage in 1992 were muted, and demonstrators protested marking the anniversary at all. It was in this spirit that Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez signed, in October, 2002, a decree changing the name of Venezuela's "Columbus Day" to "The Day of Indigenous Resistance" in honor of the nation's indigenous groups. On October 12 2004, supporters of Chávez destroyed a 100-year old statue of Columbus in Caracas. They did this because they found Columbus guilty of 'imperialist genocide'. They blotted the statue with slogans like 'Columbus=Bush'. (For more, see Columbus Day.)"

I say that CC was retarded not because he died broke, but because , despite all the evidence that he had on hand, he STILL, from most accounts, at the time of his death, thought he had gone to INDIA!

typo, by Indies, I meant to say India, NOT the West Indies

you know, I hear all of the people who are quick to lay into columbus and call him names and talk about what a horrible person he was and how he did such terrible things to the native populations of this country. let me enlighten you folks on a little known and rarely considered fact.

If Columbus had not done what he did we would not be here today to bitch about him.

If you want to protest that man and talk about the horrible things he is responsible for then by all means feel free to do so and please be sure to include the names of all the conquistadors who savagely decimated what was left of the native populations (which had already been pretty much wiped out by disease before Columbus got here) while looking for eldorado and bimini. (please, name me just one) (hernandez, desoto, cortez, esteban and plenty of others)

please note that these comments are not aimed at any specific person on this site. I have no problem with people showing their displeasure with Columbus for his actions. If you feel he was not a good person then you have the right to express that. what bothers me is those people who have no clue about history and can't even tell you why they think columbus was bad.


done ranting now

and by the way, happy 4th of july to everybody. I have a couple of graves to visit and say thanks then I'm going to grill up a nice dinner for my family. hope everybody else enjoys the holiday.

July 4th celebrations are always bittersweet for me and my peoples, as an african descendant here in america.. acceptance is always an ideal that we hold but never completely realize.

Let me tell you a personal story.. I did a fundraiser for the annual fireworks display downtown.. and hundreds of thousands of people show up for this.. it is a big deal. As I casually gazed from the rooftop on this georgeous evening, I noticed (again) the dichotomy of the celebration.. I was one of three black people.. including me the performer,in a party of over two hundred people.. and these were the diverse crowd in a fundraiser against violence toward gays named BRAVO.. I count many of these good people as my friends and feel accepted there.. I was on a rooftop with views of many other parties totaling thousands of people.. and I was struck by how few faces were "non-white"..I would estimate less than 15!! at a fourth of July patriotic celebration! And, as everyone went home, they passed each other on the street without speaking to each other.. only polite civility.. There is still a wall in this country between those who notice and those who do not notice that we are still a ways from true equality in this country.. and the day that I see true diversity in the celebrations is the day my hope that the ideals that our founding fathers (and mothers) truly captured on that day will be realized. In short, we ain't there yet, folks.. we still got work to do.

Curious:

I was recently perusing a local grocery store in the heart of atlanta and came across large packages of fireworks.

Judging from the tubes within the packages these were not merely sparklers, but full blown kits.

Considering they were supposed to be illegal was there a change in the law or is publix supermarkets inc. in some serious trouble?

www.blackcommentator.com is an excellent read on this subject matter.. Check it for another viewpoint.

Freedom is an ongoing process.

I wish it were easier than the 2 steps forward, 1 step back, but apparently our nation is doing a back-step at the moment.

Have a happy and safe holiday

Jazzmary, after all these years of watching people in this country, it never fails to amaze me how little we really learn, and how just plain "wrong" we learn, if you get my drift. But in my mind, the biggest problem we have in this country is fear--we're afraid of everyone and everything unfamiliar. We teach our children fear in order to keep them safe, and the government teaches us fear (supposedly to keep us safe *choke*). But when you walk down the street, see how many people will actually look you in the eye, and if you smile how many (or how few) will smile back. Me, I'm smiling at all of you right now. Are you smiling back? Have a happy 4th...

Alex:
Sparklers became legal, along with "fountain of fire" type stuff. All that stuff at Publix is legal, as long as there are no projectiles. Firecrakers, bottle rockets, witch whistles & roman candles are still taboo. Pick 'em up at Stateline in Alabamastan.

wow... so stupid.

after all.. Nobody would be injured by a "fountain of fire".

I hate how hypocritical these conservative scumbags are. Why don't they just let darwin take it's course with those people stupid enough to blow themselves to smitherines.

captdunsel...Vikings were here before him...and my ancestors were here before both of them..don't get me started on Columbus...as I did with Hitler....I've watched every movie, every historical documentary, and read every book I can on old Columbus boy...I stand by my criticism of him...and will add more links to illustrate my point(s).

awehr, God's been way to busy lately sorting them all out...he needs a vacation. So let's not let people blow themselves to smithereens just because they can, huh?

codewarrior- like I said, if you have a criticism of columbus that's fine. I'm not saying he was a saint, a good parent or even a fair checkers player

what I am saying is this, he did what he did more than 500 years ago. had he not made his voyages history would not have worked out the way it did and we wouldn't be here. moreover, someone else would have eventually gotten around to it anyway.

here's what totally galls me. Columbus was an expeditionary. His job was to find things. preferably something to increase the wealth of the spanish empire. he did that.

Now, 500 years later I see people who can't seem to appreciate this fact. I've actually witnessed groups that were protesting against "the white imperial colonist pig, christopher columbus" these people have no clue and I have no patience to try to enlighten them.

he was no better or no worse than other figures in history who are still held in esteem (julius caesar, william the conqueror, erwin rommel, henry V, alexander the great, ghengis khan, kubla khan, khan nguyen sung (watch star trek )

I am 1/4 commanche indian (far more than ward churchill who has made a career out of being a professional ass) I feel I have as much right to despise columbus as the next guy yet I harbor no such hostility. he was what he was and things are what they are today because of him. that's really all I'm saying.

by the way there is archeological evidence to support the belief that the chinese were actually in central mexico and south america in the 4th century BC, long before the vikings!

and by the way awerh since you wish to take up for some of these idiots watch this....


http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/firecrackersuicide.html

If we're going to continually criticize every person in history who opresses, and murders others we would have to time to enlighten ourselves from the postive lessons as well. learn from the negitive but lets get the chip off our shoulders. our blood lline doesn't make us any more a victim of someone 500 years past than anyone else. I'm part Irish but I haven't suffered from the rule of the British, no need to go around criticizing them. I'm also part English, Maybee I should constantly damn the French for invading my country so many centurys ago... the list goes on.

I should've said we would have NO time to enlighten ourselves

I propose in the name of White america that We no longer be called white. we are not white (except for Albinos with poor pignitation) we are cream colored to light brown. In my case I have freckles mixed in so technically I'm poka dotted. I think the name has been placed on us unfairly. european American is a better description.

(See how rediculous excessive political correctness is.)

nope compmore.

After spending months awake by night and asleep by day, I can assure you i'm thoroughly and completely WHITE : )

To the Chinese I say...
Hen hao!

Can't we all just be Americans? I have freckles, too, comp, but don't dare call me cream color or I'll get you with my psychic powers (see my post in Feed the Musicians).

Btw, Code, did you just insult someone's hen?

Living in America. Fourth of July. What does it mean? It means we can disagree, and still be Americans. We can disagree with each other, and we can disagree with our government. Our strength is in our diversity. And our respect for that diversity. And Code, I demand you apologize to that hen.

"This is not a bad time to think about his story, and the fledgling nation we have liberated and taken under our wing."

Taken under our wing, my ass! I see the doctor was shot at a US checkpoint. You might find this interview with Staff Sgt. Jimmy Massey enlightening:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6201.htm

Q: What experiences turned you against the war and made you leave the Marines?

A: I was in charge of a platoon that consists of machine gunners and missile men. Our job was to go into certain areas of the towns and secure the roadways. There was this one particular incident - and there's many more - the one that really pushed me over the edge. It involved a car with Iraqi civilians. From all the intelligence reports we were getting, the cars were loaded down with suicide bombs or material. That's the rhetoric we received from intelligence. They came upon our checkpoint. We fired some warning shots. They didn't slow down. So we lit them up.

Q: Lit up? You mean you fired machine guns?

A: Right. Every car that we lit up we were expecting ammunition to go off. But we never heard any. Well, this particular vehicle we didn't destroy completely, and one gentleman looked up at me and said: "Why did you kill my brother? We didn't do anything wrong." That hit me like a ton of bricks.

Q: He spoke English?

A: Oh, yeah.
......

Q: How many times were you involved in checkpoint "light-ups"?

A: Five times. There was [the city of] Rekha. The gentleman was driving a stolen work utility van. He didn't stop. With us being trigger happy, we didn't really give this guy much of a chance. We lit him up pretty good. Then we inspected the back of the van. We found nothing. No explosives.

Q: The reports said the cars were loaded with explosives. In all the incidents did you find that to be the case?

A: Never. Not once. There were no secondary explosions. As a matter of fact, we lit up a rally after we heard a stray gunshot.

Q: And the incident?

A: There was an incident with one of the cars. We shot an individual with his hands up. He got out of the car. He was badly shot. We lit him up. I don't know who started shooting first. One of the Marines came running over to where we were and said: "You all just shot a guy with his hands up." Man, I forgot about this.

what a nice forth of july tribute this thread is. get's me all choked up and thankful to be an american.

Sorry, comp, for some of us it's not a very proud moment in our history. I told you to vote him off the island.

Some people think this is a day to get drunk and jump around like a doofus and light fireworks in the street and watch the debris rain down upon their neighbors cars and property and yell, "America Is The Best! Fuck Yeah!" Other people think this is a day to contemplate our past and think about how to make the future better.

I forgot to say: Fuck France! Those cheese eating surrender monkeys! America Rules! Hell yeah!

Maybe not shadowmom but there have been many worse moments in our lifetimes and sometimes we should put it all aside and be proud to be American.

"Other people think this is a day to contemplate our past and think about how to make the future better."

I couldn't agree more.

then again, some of us went out to the cemetary and paid our respects to the people who came before and then had a pleasant evening with the people who are part of the now. I didn't get drunk. I didn't shoot fireworks at my neighbors and I didn't bash anybody for their views.

I hope everybody has as good of a 4th as I did a 3rd. please say a prayer to whatever diety, currency or substance that you consider holy and take into account that after all is said and done this life is only temporary and it will go away soon enough. have a great holiday folks.

Shadowmom..."Hen hao" in Chinese means "good technique"

I'm using my Freedom of Speech rights on the 4th like I do on every day, and to me, that's the best way to show the continuum from the Founding Fathers until today. I say I am using my Freedom of Speech rights now, because I sincerely don't know how long we will be able to employ this "right".

Remember. our rights don't come from governments...they are allegedly protected from our government restricting them. Rghts are "inalienable"...hey, what the heck does that mean?

"al·ien·a·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ly-n-bl, l--)
adj.
Transferrable to the ownership of another."

So "inalienable" must mean NON-transferrable to the ownership of another...meaning that no one can transfer YOUR rights to someone else.

OK.

I think the 4th is a GREAT time to quote old Kurt Vonnegut..so here goes:

--"Who is more to be pitied, a writer bound and gagged by policemen or one living in perfect freedom who has nothing more to say? "
Kurt Vonnegut

--"We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap."
Kurt Vonnegut

--"True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country."
Kurt Vonnegut

--"Some jerk infected the Internet with an outright lie. It shows how easy it is to do and how credulous people are. "
Kurt Vonnegut

--"People have to talk about something just to keep their voice boxes in working order so they'll have good voice boxes in case there's ever anything really meaningful to say."
Kurt Vonnegut

--"People don't come to church for preachments, of course, but to daydream about God."
Kurt Vonnegut

--"Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. "
Kurt Vonnegut

--"If you can do a half-assed job of anything, you're a one-eyed man in a kingdom of the blind. "

--"I really wonder what gives us the right to wreck this poor planet of ours.
Kurt Vonnegut

--"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. "
Kurt Vonnegut

--"I want to stand as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all the kinds of things you can't see from the center. "
Kurt Vonnegut

--"Human beings will be happier - not when they cure cancer or get to Mars or eliminate racial prejudice or flush Lake Erie but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That's my utopia. "
Kurt Vonnegut

--"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before."
Kurt Vonnegut

--"Call me Jonah. My parents did, or nearly did. They called me John. "
Kurt Vonnegut


--"One of the few good things about modern times: If you die horribly on television, you will not have died in vain. You will have entertained us. "
Kurt Vonnegut, "Cold Turkey", In These Times, May 10, 2004

--"Thanks to TV and for the convenience of TV, you can only be one of two kinds of human beings, either a liberal or a conservative. "
Kurt Vonnegut, "Cold Turkey", In These Times, May 10, 2004

-- "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be."
Kurt Vonnegut

--"There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don’t know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president."
Kurt Vonnegut, "Cold Turkey", In These Times, May 10, 2004

**===|>"Call me Jonah. My parents did, or nearly did. They called me John."
Kurt Vonnegut

--"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
====================SNIP===========
Amen Kurt, Amen!

Have a safe and happy 4th...
NOW QUIT TYPING AND GO HAVE SOME FUN!

Code, I did the "time-warp" with this thread to show MY patriotism. (fu-dog can spank me later.)

compmore, IMHO we show our "pride as Americans" by being able to say what is on our minds.

Saying our say = waving the flag. (Now, THAT'S American!)

Freedom of speech is the FIRST amendment for a reason.

Let us bitch if we wanna (AND bitch at us for bitching too!)

Thanks Shmoo...God Bless You and have a wonderful 4th.

I gotta clean house and wash clothes now...

It's all good! :USA:

:FLAG: :USA: (one of these translates to Ole Glory on the Dmusic site I'm sure...}

aha! put lower-case "usa" in between : and :

that does the trick!

If Columbus had not done what he did

The true Americans would be better off!

"Freedom of speech is the FIRST amendment for a reason."

No kidding. I didn't know that.

schmoo, all I'm trying to do is what I always try to do, try to look at things in a positive light cause there is so much good in this country and the people of this country. And yes, even within the government sometimes. I agree with Captdunsel I'd like to see a holiday like the 4th where we can enjoy the spirt of what it stands for and the time with our friends and family. Not take every oprotunity to find a reason to carp about our government. No matter what time of the century it is or who's in office there's always something to carp about. Why is it when I try to do this and disagree with the destructive negitivity someone always throws the first amendment at me as if I'm trying to stop someone from having their say? When you hear me say "you can't say that." THEN you can start quoting the first amendment, but you'll never hear me say that.

You wanna carp, go ahead and carp. Me I'm just happy to be in America and have a desire to see everyone feel the same. guess I'm just too idealistic to expect us all to rise above the pettiness just for one day.

So Happy 4th to everyone who wants to enjoy it. fireworks were great last night and will be great tonight again. I'm going to start the barbeque.
For those who want to sit and bitch and moan about how terrible things are, try to have a good day anyway.

For those who want to sit and bitch and moan about how terrible things are,

We bitch and moan today, because tomorrow the goverment may remove that right!

then worry about it tomorrow. or go find a real nice freedom loving country. North Korea comes to mind

So we have freedom of speech only 364 days a year.

you can say what you want. did you hear me say you can't say that? Let me look........ mmmmm nope I didn't say that anywhere. I'm just wanting you to enjoy today. can't enjoy the day when there's so much negitivity. but, that's your choice.

Just trying to help you find some alternitives. I'd hate to have you live in a place that's so awful. I'm outta here, running to the store and picking up my son.

compmore (Rick - that is, if you don't mind me using your first name)

I really understand the deliberate desire you have for there to be a day where we all pull-together as a nation and society without the struggle and strife. (As for the USA, July 4th should BE that day!)

...but please understand. We all do not agree on things. BECAUSE our spirit/founders recognized that aspect of our being, I myself do NOT take offense when we citizens get into chatrooms/forums and respectfully claw at each other's arguments...

INSTEAD, I celebrate the freedom to do so with equanimity!

(I actually LIKE having the differences of opinions floating around.)

Rick, you are a CLOSE friend of mine. I am actually kinda relieved/glad that we are disagreeing on something for once!

(Now at least I know you are not just my reflection in a mirror!)





Happy 4th of July!

"Think for yourself, or I won't be there for you..."

--Lennon/McCartney

Mike, I'm just trying to get people to see something positive and overcome pettiness, weither we agree or disagree is irrelevant here. Unless we want to disagree about enjoying the day or not. Unfortunatly not everyone can put pettiness aside.

Like I said. maybee I'm too idealistic.

BTW Mike, I have a lot of respect for you and consider you a good friend as well. You do a hell of a job trying to keep this site in line. it's oftentimes an uphill battle

Rick, I wish you were a girl! (Because I LOVE YA!)

I have a similar "idealistic stick" stuck up my butt too!

(And, I appologize to our "newbies" for flauntin it! ...but it DOES itch!)

You are probably a "middle of the road" type guy with family and kids...

...and, I am more of a "crazed idealistic left-wing nut-case"

but, will you marry me?

(lol)


...But seriously, YOU and CodeWarrior, ShadowMom, gdZiemann, tomsong, thumbtack, leflaw, fu-dog, carla, jazzmary, (even mroop), captdunsel, captainmorgan, hawk771, mp3User, etc. etc. are ALL folks I/we agree with MOST of the time.

...it is ALWAYS some "nit-picky" particular we get hung up and snip at each other over.

YOU were the one who said "let's get together" and put aside the diffs.

(Therefore, I am gonna VOTE for YOUR proposal this time!)

Strength in numbers! Mob enMASS! SQUISH the enemy FIRST!

(THEN we can fuss over the details!)

GOODBYE RIAA FIRST!!!

hey fun boys, get a room.

and for those who think the native americans would be better off had Columbus not discovered America let me just say this. He did. 500 years ago. the world is what it is now. if you have a plan to change time we're all ears. If you can't accept reality they make drugs and mental health institutions. For myself and my family I'm happy to be part of this reality. you guys have a great 4th. This Irish/Indian/mongrel has some German bratwurst to grill, some American corn and watermelon to prepare, some English beer to drink and a Polish wife and daughter to be thankful for. Ya'll have a great 4th.

and just for the record I scored a 2 lb bag of bing cherries at the grocery store this morning for 2 bucks. I plan on enjoying them to the fullest I don't care if I pay for it tommorrow )

If you have a plan to change time we're all ears.
Well the plan is in place, sense you are all ears here your answer, 1969 fight to the moon, clocks on the Apollo were set with atomic clocks on the ground, upon Apollo,s reture from the moon the clock on Apollo was seven minutes behind the atomic clock on earth, time for the space crew had slowed, so for time travel we must increase velocity beyond the speed of light. The math is done, engineers need new materials to assemble engines that can reach these speeds.

If you can't accept reality they make drugs and mental health institutions.

So this is your medical assessment on my opinion, drugs, you sound like the goverment!
Beer officially a drug, by goverment definition.

Happy 4th

actually I haven't drank in 12 years. I just like to joke about it. but whatever.

Not drinking is a good thing, it shows you are a person who charts their own course, doesn,t follow the crowd. You fit in just great here, your a rebel too, you just didn,t know it. Don,t burn the bratswurst.

Comp, #1 point: stop calling it pettiness. #2 point: you see the country the way you think it is, and I see the country the way I wish it were. Doesn't mean I don't love it here. Also doesn't mean I won't fight against my government when I think they are wrong. Point #3: Happy Birthday, America. And Happy 4th to everybody here.

I emjoyed the day by:
1) Watering the lawn
2) Washing clothes
3) Posting news to other sites as well
4) Folding towels
5) Feeding the cats
6) Watching the Twilight Zone Marathon on Sci Fi channel
7) Cooking short ribs
Putting in an extra 512 meg of Ram in my newest computer
9) Cleaning the carpet stains (great product...FOLEX)
10) Getting sun so my claim to being a "Red Man" is all the more believable
11) Calling my Mom and Dad and wishing them a great 4th
12) Calling some friends who are back from Iraq and thanking them for being the kind of folks they are, and for what they did for our country
13) Prayed that things would get better for our country and its citizens soon.

That's my "Lucky 13" for the day.

HAPPY 4TH Y'ALL, FROM DEEP IN THE STICKS IN TEXAS...HOME OF THE CONFEDERATE JIHAD..PRONOUNCED....

"YEEEEEEEE HAAAAWWWWWWD"

first, pointless Bickering and complaining IS pettiness reguardless of ideals.

2nd I do see all the problems you see. I just don't see it as hopeless and I do see all the good as well. I wish it were as simple as removing one person or small group of people. I fight too when things are wrong but to constatly dwell on negitivism is depressing and keeps one from enjoying the day. THAT IS SIMPLY ALL I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY. not take sides. why is that so hard for people to grasp??

I spent the day pulling dandilines from the lawn, varnishing the porch swing, barbequing for my wife and two of my sons and in a few hours gonna go see some fireworks. been wonderful and I needed it.

on my first point I guess complaining about all the complaining is petty to, so I'll stop the pettyness myself.

I spent the day pulling dandy lions from the lawn.

If you will use weed and feed to kill those dandy lions in your yard, you will have more time for pettyness.

hahaha. I'd rather pull weeds. fresh air, sunshine. I'll be petty tomorrow there's always negitivism to try and throw a positive spin on

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God Bless and have a good 4th

http://www.minibite.com/america/fourth.htm
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I make my coffee using vodka to save time...
The flag represents many things to many people, the sad side is that our goverment and everyday life doesnt live up to the high standards our flag holds. Some may think it's corny ideas, some may think that because of the injustices it's not worth going. As a man of principals I must go, I must stand up for my flag, I will fight when its time to fight, I will die when its time to die, for what I beleive in and I believe in my flag and what my flag represents. Goddess help me.
-taught to me by my Master, Dayton, 100% Native American on why he went to Veitnam. (Not an exact quote...)
So today I took my children down to the parade, frist one he didnt march in, to stand and apploud (clap for... where's spel chek?) the vets...
Im a weird one tho' I figure if you wanna be a hater go ahead and put a sign in the window of yer house that says "No Blacks", I wont stop by either. Most of my bloodline didnt come to America untill freed from the camps, one part of my bloodline signed that Declearation... Me? I seem to have a problem with Native Grrlz who like to drink... Being multiracal isnt strange until I find myself in the wrong crowd, a crowd of people who dont relise Im mixed. Dunno if my children can get a Native Card but they can get a free ticket to Isreal... eh, we're too redneck for any of that.
This country could be better, and shall live up to the high standards set by our flag someday.
Did ya know Michigan missed legalising weed by 800 signatures one year? We had enough signatures, just 10,000 people were too stoned to go out and register to vote

"WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of Great- Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World."

I hope you all had a Happy Fourth Of July.
And for that great international body of people we have here, A Great Day To You.

"what bothers me is those people who have no clue about history and can't even tell you why they think columbus was bad. "

Amen brother, AMEN!!!
Right up there with people who think that all Muslims are violent and that the Koran teaches nothing but violence. Like our Christian bibles teach only horticulture and our Christian history so peaceful and honorable.
And the other one I've loved for years, people who don't vote but have no problem bitching about who's in office.

GET A LIFE!!



"Open question. Are Canadian Indians called Native Canadians?"

It's not just Native American, it's also Mexican American, African American, etc. I've wondered what was up with that. I don't see that in any other country. Isn't anyone proud to just be American anymore? People fought so hard against segregation and now they seem to want it back.

BTW - Love the picture that was added to this story. I went to a Pow Pow a few months ago and blew off the food vendors to get this one t-shirt... a beautiful silouet (sp?) of an Indian warrior and underneath it reads
"Homeland Security. Protecting the Nation since 1492".
Had to have it. I've gotten alot of positive comments and hostile stares whenever I wear it.

Shmoo said:
"Think for yourself, or I won't be there for you..."

--Lennon/McCartney


They were RIAA artists. And RIAA artists do not exist for boycotters. Do not purchase their crap, do not download their crap, and do not even listen to their crap.

Isn't that what you've been preaching? So why are you quoting their crap?

Culture, kyodolee, it's part of our subconscious.....it's like spouting poetry, or saying a line from a movie...I guess you could call it our collective consciousness. It's something we all can connect to. That's all. And regardless of whether we're boycotting or not, the Beatles were not and are not crap.

Sorry I didn't spell your name right. It's been a long day...week...summer.

All RIAA music is crap. There are no distinctions. Do not purchase it. Do not download it. Do not even listen to it. There are no exceptions. No excuses. Period.

This is what I've seen being preached over and over again here.

It's the boycott-riaa philosophy/rhetoric. If you can't stick to it here on the site yourselves, how can you expect anyone else to.

The Doors

The End

This is the end, beautiful friend
This is the end, my only friend
The end of our elaborate plans
The end of everything that stands
The end

No safety or surprise
The end
I'll never look into your eyes again

Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need of some stranger's hand
In a desperate land

Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain
There's danger on the edge of town
Ride the King's highway
Weird scenes inside the gold mine
Ride the highway West, baby

Ride the snake
Ride the snake
To the lake
To the lake

The ancient lake, baby
The snake is long
Seven miles
Ride the snake

He's old
And his skin is cold
The West is the best
The West is the best
Get here and we'll do the rest

The blue bus is calling us
The blue bus is calling us
Driver, where are you taking us?

The killer awoke before dawn
He put his boots on
He took a face from the ancient gallery
And he walked on down the hall

He went into the room where his sister lived
And then he paid a visit to his brother
And then he walked on down the hall
And he came to a door
And he looked inside
Father
Yes son?
I want to kill you
Mother, I want to. . .

C'mon baby, take a chance with us
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the blue bus

This is the end, beautiful friend
This is the end, my only friend
The end

It hurts to set you free
But you'll never follow me

The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of nights we tried to die

This is the end

It's like this, when you grow up in poetry and motion. It is hard to give it up. But it is not hard to buy it any more. If spelling and grammer or what ever, I'm one rum too many. As for The Beatles have a white album that is not white at all, pictures all over the cover,and the poster inside well you know.

sorry kyodylee, but I'll continue to listen to music I've purchased throughout the years, until Napster was shut down by the RIAA and I learned what their REAL motivation was. Will I continue to buy RIAA music? No. Will I take interest in new rock groups presented by the RIAA?? No, why should I, they don't want me to listen to their music unless I buy it first.

Yes, I have purchased alot of RIAA music through the years. I'm sorry, I didn't know what pigs the RIAA record label cartel was (although I did have some kind of idea that they weren't the most honest companies on the planet). I honestly thought I was supporting my bands. I'm very disappointed to know how wrong I was.

Since I've already purchased it, I plan to enjoy what I have. It seems only fair, since I have invested much into it. But, I am no longer going to expand my horizons with new music, unless it is with an Independent Musician, someone NOT SIGNED to an RIAA label.

WHAT'S PATRIOTIC??

http://www.freep.com/sports/albom/mitch3e_20050703.htm

I couldn't have said it better.

Tell me, Kyo, before you ever found out about the RIAA’s practices, did you have any favorite RIAA bands? And after you found out about what’s going on, do you still like them?

If not, I feel awfully sorry for you.

I think Kyodylee was trying to make a point rather than advocate not listening to RIAA music. that's how I took it anyway.

correct me if I'm wrong Kyodylee but I think the point he's making (right or wrong) is that since boycottriaa advocates absolutly no purchase, listening or downloading RIAA music then why is lyrics of RIAA songs being quoted to make a point. He's playing devils advocate.

kyodylee - The quote you are upset about is one from Lennon... who DIED before the RIAA got ahold of thier music. So I would have to say that Lennon had nothing to do with the RIAA. I'm also sure that he, more so than any other Beatle would have been against what the RIAA is doing. His thought patterns were much more in tune with Jerry Garcia than with Paul McCartney.

Listen to Riaa music all you want. Just don't buy it.

compmore ... you are both insightful and correct.

Leflaw ... now that's the most sense I've seen here in a long time.

(Or buy it used. No money goes to the RIAA.)
Thank you, leflaw for not taking away half my cultural heritage.

"Had Columbus not made his voyages, history would not have worked out the way it did and we wouldn't be here. Moreover, someone else would have eventually gotten around to it anyway."

I've heard this before, and I've never questioned it. Finally, now I will. How does anyone know that we wouldn't be here if Columbus hadn't made his voyages? As you say, "Someone else would have eventually gotten around to it anyway."

"How does anyone know that we wouldn't be here if Columbus hadn't made his voyages? "

It's called the "Butterfly Effect". If anything in the past changes, even the wings of a butterfly flapping a different way, everything thereafter could change. Interesting concept dealing with time travel.

"As you say, "Someone else would have eventually gotten around to it anyway." "

I have my own concept. It's called the "Groundhog Day Effect". It is exactly opposite the "Butterfly Effect". Basically, anything can change in the past, and everything else could wind up exactly the same, just like in the Groundhog day movie where no matter what happened, the day repeated itself. An episode of the "X-Files" entitled "Monday" also explored that concept.

Noteworthy Quote

Mulder: "Scully, did you ever have one of those days you wish you could rewind and start all over again from the beginning?"

Scully: "Yes, frequently. But I mean, who's to say that if you did rewind it and start over again that it wouldn't end up exactly the same way?"

Ragnarok.

"It's called the "Butterfly Effect". If anything in the past changes, even the wings of a butterfly flapping a different way, everything thereafter could change. Interesting concept dealing with time travel."


Oh, most interesting. In other words, if someone other than Columbus had "discovered" American, then perhaps the RIAA would be on the government watch list as terrorists and collaborators?

I want to be on that mirror Earth.

"They were RIAA artists. And RIAA artists do not exist for boycotters. Do not purchase their crap, do not download their crap, and do not even listen to their crap."

The non-listening part is primarily aimed at radio, specifically at Clear Channel. I've still heard "Hollaback Girl" wa-a-a-a-y too many times.

I have lots of CDs from the 20th century. I listen to them all the time. But all the money I've spent on music in this century has gone to Indies only. And none of the old RIAA music is ever put on my computer or even played in my computer's CD drive.

Peer-to-peer will eventually get straightened out. It's a remake of the radio battle, which took 17 or 18 years. We're in year Five. If you want to speed up the process and jump to the exciting conclusion, convince people to erase them from the net.

Or put up with another 12 or 13 years of grief.
Unfortunately, it will involve a compulsory license, which neither side wants, positioning it as the most likely solution.

The artists are still going to have their copyrights stolen from them by the labels as work for hire; the artists will still be subject to the music industry's voodoo accounting; they still won't get more than a buck a record, if they ever get that. Maybe their contract will get lost and they'll never get paid.

Do what you want. It really doesn't matter in the long run -- unless you get caught.

But that's not what I came here to say.

I love our country. Been through most of it, plus Canada and Mexico. It has to be one of the most diverse nations on the planet, geographically, politically, theocratically, ethnically and sociologically.

The gubment is another thang.

"It's called the 'Butterfly Effect'."
Or paradox.

"Ragnarok."
?????

Ragnarok was a word that jumped in my mind because it has something to do with the Vikings (who came across the big water before Chris Columus) and their view of the inevitable "fate" of the way things will turn out...

...I know, I should be commited or something the way my mind works sometimes.