Sure. The name of our site is "Boycott-Riaa"... but we are NOT just simply and only about a "boycott" of the Riaa. (Or is it?)

As I see it, the target of our ire is primarily the established corporate recording industry and their abusive monopoly over recorded music distribution along with the suppression of our music culture, and their attack upon the non-commercial fair-use rights of free citizens.

I never saw us as being "appologists" for the p2p enterprises who really only wanted to become a monopolized 'digital age' gateway that merely subplants/replaces the RIAA. (ie. Grokster, KaZaa and the like.)

Who needs "Meet the old boss, same as the old boss"?

I'd like to think that we stand for the ARTISTS and at the same time THE FANS!

But, let's be real a moment. Most consumers will not ever
join in an effective deliberate "boycott" against our enemy per-se. Some have, and increasingly more do "join in our suggested ACTION of boycotting". (And we do reach a lot more folks with our message than many might think...) but MOSTLY, the "boycott" itself is more of a TACTIC that we use in our struggle for a level playing field in the music market-place.

A "boycott" itself is NOT our whole "purpose-of-being." (Or, IS it? SHOULD it be?)

I invite you to tell me where I am "right" and where I am "wrong" in my assumptions/opinions!

you already know mine Mike

If, by some divine miracle, p2p ceased to be, I would not notice, care, or shed a tear. No need to apologize for it.

In fact, I would love to see the entire p2p question go away, so we can talk about the pirates who are stealing from the artists -- Sony, Universal, Warner and EMI.

George, you and I agree on that point because both you and I see the USELESNESS of p2p at this point in time of history for the independent artist.

I am also taking the optimistic view of the 9-0 MGV v Grokster "decision" with you in that SCOTUS specifically avoided the Sony-Betamax issue, and that they ONLY said that Grokster (et al) were possibly liable for deliberate secondary copyright infringement (active promotion of users to infringe.)

YOU and I and a few others already see it...

But let the dust settle a bit. Ordinry sheople are scared sh*tless by such a supposedly momentious thing as MGM v Grokster being "spun" on the boob-tube in favor of the RIAA/MPAA! (Actually, a GOOD thing IMHO... maybe they will all start paying attention now.)

George, please temper your words and play careful a bit in regards to the "newbies" who are showing up now. It is VERY unfortunate that the majority of them are p2p users who were "getting a free ride" and come here expecting us to "back up" thier sense of "entitlement"...

BUT, if we "hard-line" them too quick, (and piss 'em off) we might not be able to educate them the REAL issues.

=============

FOLKS, please REMEMBER that there are a whole heck of a lot more people who READ what we post/say here at Boycott-Riaa than there are who also bother to participate in these forums with words of their own!

This site is really a collection of people who would like the RIAA and the MPAA to stop F***ING with them. And they mean "them" as them personally. This feels like a personal attack to *us*.

Now all of our reasons for our wanting this are different. That causes BIG problems for *us* as a group. That is because each of us wants our reason to be the *real* reason that the RIAA and MPAA should stop F***ING with us.

This is wrong headed. There is no *real* reason.

If we want them to stop F***ING with us, we simply MUST MAKE THEM stop.

The question must become, "What is the MOST EFFECTIVE way of making the RIAA and MPAA stop F***ING with us."

Trying to reach emotional agreement over why we all feel hurt and neglected, is for a drum circle. ...rumpa, dum, dum...

"This is wrong headed. There is no *real* reason."

...not your best choice of words, but I see what you are saying (and AGREE %100)

We ALL have differing opinions when it gets to the "nit-pickies" (And that is the way it SHOULD be!)

We are a COMMUNITY, or rather, a GATHERING of folks with individual voices/opinions... but we are NOT an "organization" per-se. (I hope we never become such.)

(Just say NO to "goose-stepping")

lol

Why do I boycott?

Because I don't believe in corporations that extort money from hard working citizens and try to sue 12-year-old girls and dead grandmas for listening to music.

I also boycott because the RIAA and MPAA are largely responsible for the unfair situation that exists in copyright law. Copyright terms are way too long, and personal use is under attack. The record labels thru the RIAA are responsible for this situation, and one weapon we have to fight back on an individual level is to NOT BUY RIAA MUSIC.

I also boycott because in today's world, it's easy. Have you heard the CRAP the RIAA labels continue to put out as "music". They act like multinational corporations in all their music decisions, instead of people interested in expanding the creativity of the arts, which was the intent of copyright law.

Finally, I boycott because I refuse to fuel the GREED of these bastards.

I think that the primary purpose is to do what we can to eliminate what has clearly become an unfair monopoly situation. Whether by educating people, boycotting, or lobbying the object is to try to create a Music / Content industry that serves both of it's sets of customers Music producers and Music Consumers. Competition has been almost completely eliminated, and as a result there is almost no functional difference between any of the big 4 or their affiliated labels. Using Copyright Legislation and the courts they have effectively choked anyhting that may cut in to their complete control of the promotion and distribution channels for music, so rather than being a service provider for Musicians they have changed themselves in to a king maker, they choose their customer and tell them what they will pay rather than the other way around. The goal in my mind is to correct what is clearly a dysfunctional industry to bring it bak in line with a normal market. Perhaps it is time to break up the music industry "Bells"

You are right. Not a sympathetic choice of words on my part. Sorry if I offended.

(At the risk of sounding like I want my strategy to be the one *real* strategy, it is not it is just and example to help start the brainstorming.)

I've said a couple of times that I doubt the effectiveness of this particular boycott. The problem is not with boycotting per se, but with the choice of targets.

Here, we have chosen appropriate targets, but not necessarily *effective* ones.

Now, I *personally* want to slap the RIAA and MPAA. As a fighter, I'm a fly weight. They probably wouldn't even notice if I connected. But, it still feels cool to pretend it would matter.

What must become more important to me, is that *somebody* slap the RIAA and MPAA. I mean a *somebody* with big muscles that would stagger them and make them take notice before standing up again.

Excepting, courts and the government as *somebodies* for the moment, I have come up with only one other possible candidate as an immediate *sombody*.


-- repost from an old thread below --

The ruling points out that you can't always go after the direct infringers. Sometimes, to be effective you have to go after the indirect infringers.

There is really only one entity to which both the RIAA and the MPAA play step-and-fetch-it. Only one organization that, if push comes to shove, will stand up and make the other sit and shut up.

That is the National Association of Broadcasters. The NAB is the most important marketing arm the RIAA has. Without radio play, there are no CD sales. Ask any musician. Televison rights make up almost half of the take of any movie. Television advertisment is mandatory or there are no movie goers. Ask any indy.

Fortunately for you, the NAB are some of the most monitored entities in the world. As such, they are the ones most immediatly succeptible to a boycott. Keep in mind that every television, radio and cable station receives both overnight ratings and sweeps ratings. These number are directly responsible for how much money they can bill their advertisers. If their ratings go down in ONE sweeps WEEK, their revenues are down for an entire quarter. Ratings are a thing the NAB members check every single day.

Now if you were to plan a "Turn OFF Bad Radio. Turn ON Great Podcasts" and "Turn OFF Bad TV. Turn on Great Indy Movies" during an up and coming sweeps week, you could be remarkably effective FAST!

Indy podcast music and movies would of course be delivered via P2P systems. (All infringement free.) I suspect there would be plenty of freely available content to program ONE WEEK of radio and TV.

I'm sure there are other effective ways to approact the problem. If you've got other candidated for *somebody* to slap the RIAA and MPAA, I'll help you convince them.

IMHO, I think "we" at Boycott-Riaa are more-so effective as a vague "idea/brainstorming" factor and also an "education/news souce" for the people than we are any kind of "direct action/targeted" 'movement' with anything specific as the 'goal' ...but, then again, that is MY opinion.

a position eh? committment to a certain belief or doctrine? well, as long you you stay at least an arms length away from me while you got those rubber gloves on...

here's the way I see it.

I bought their music for 30 years. I paid to see their concerts, I bought their t shirts and everything else. I went from vinyl to 8 track to cassette to cd many times having to repurchase music I already owned. (I challenge anyone to find me an 8 track player). then p2p came along and allowed us to listen to some of this crap and make a decision about whether or not to fork over the cash for it. if you are an grumpy old man such as myself it also allows you to listen to some of the crap your teenage daughter wants you to buy before you get shocked and disgusted.

the record labels don't like that because they have lost total control and cannot dictate the terms anymore. that pissed me off. then they started suing. that really pissed me off. what really irks me about the whole affair is that there is essentially nothing on p2p that you can't record off of the radio yet they act like kazaa is a tap straight into their heart.

I'm sorry, p2p is a good tool and I like the idea of instant access to whatever music I want but face it what you find on there is the same noise you find on any of 300,000 radio stations and sueing the people you are selling this crap to should be criminal.

the most galling part of this is that if they would just agree to distribute the music for say a quarter a song and turn kazza and the like loose they would be rolling in dough. why don't they do that? because they are a little kid with a toy and if the other children don't want to play by their rules then the other kids can't play with their toy. If that 's the way they want it then ok. I won't buy, I won't listen I won't play. but if others still use p2p it doesn't bother me and any losses that the labels suffer becasue of their own foolishness is self induced. my father use to always say ignorance should be costly but stupidity should hurt. I hope the labels are hurting right now. when they hurt bad enough maybe they'll quit beinbg stupid.

Some of the arguments above have a lot of good points. I won't rehash them. I will simply comment on the broader question of what the purpose of this website is.

When I first registered some time ago, it seemed to me that the purpose (in MY head anyways) was to enthusiastically spread logical, diplomatic, well-thought points that will convince people that conducting business with the Culture Conglomerates is not in their best interests.

For that purpose, this site appears to be hit-and-miss to me. That didn't stop me from donating before and I'll probably donate again at some point, because there is definitely value in what is said here. But maybe a bit too much proselytizing, maybe a bit too much hyperbole. Understandable given the strong feelings that we have here, but just a touch disappointing.

That being said, keep up the good fight guys.

"the most galling part of this is that if they would just agree to distribute the music for say a quarter a song and turn kazza and the like loose they would be rolling in dough. why don't they do that?"

Why? Greed, my friend, GREED.

And you know what? If they DID do something along those lines, we would have LOST the war a long time ago! (So, I am glad they are blinded by the greed!)

Oddly enough, their own stupidity/greed is our BEST ally/benefactor.

Captain Morgan is very on the mark with everything he said.

"Now all of our reasons for our wanting this are different. That causes BIG problems for *us* as a group. That is because each of us wants our reason to be the *real* reason that the RIAA and MPAA should stop F***ING with us."

What I'm saying is that even if the Supreme Court had exonerated Grokster as simply having no control over their users, and the RIAA decided tomorrow to quit suing people because it would be pointless, the underlying problem would remain.

If and when all of the pissed off p2p users are completely happy and worry no more about p2p than they do listening to the radio (and neither does the RIAA), they'll all stop complaining and go away.

But the guy who signs a major label contract the next day is still going to get screwed.

As for the NAB, does what people do even count at all if they're not reporting to Neilsen?

I have reported to one of the ratings services once. They tend to mail out little journals to use to write down what you watch. I'm assuming since it only happened once, they mail randomly.

I do get lots of calls for radio surveys. They usually do it over the phone. I'm not sure if it goes to ratings people or advertisers, but someone is watching closely.

At another web site I run, we did protest called "Free Music for Christmas". A bunch of people got all of their copied CDs and labelled then with Section 1008 and a short explaination saying that these were legal copies and explaining why that was true.

Then we went to shopping malls and handed them out to people. We also took all our personal CDs, laptops, labels and more blank CD so that other people could freely copy music for Christmas.

We labled these "First generation copies made from legally purchased media" so that people could freely give those to their friends for Christmas.

====

I propose that something like this could work during sweeps week. BUT, this time using indy music and videos intentionally provided by supporters.

If you seeded CDs and DVDs to groups in different places, you could copy them in public and make clear that the receive can and should copy them again and pass them to their friends.

If you labled them "Commercial-FREE TV for Sweeps Week (date goes here)" that would probably have an impact on the NAB. Expecially if you started it with a couple of weeks lead time, and it started to look like a national movement.

"As for the NAB, does what people do even count at all if they're not reporting to Neilsen?"

That's a very good question and one I don't know the answer to, but I'd like to find out. I do know that on the local station level, there is alot of community involvement. Usually, this is done for promotion purposes, which makes the motive seem a little slimy. I think in some cases though, it is a genuine product, and not just pomp.
In that sense, yes, it does matter even if they aren't reporting to Nielsen. If a tornado is touching down near your locale, you'll find out about it, even if it isn't sweeps.

"I have reported to one of the ratings services once. They tend to mail out little journals to use to write down what you watch. I'm assuming since it only happened once, they mail randomly."

That depends on the market size. I've worked in both and sat through many an employee luncheon listening to the GM talk about how unreliable diary reports are. Where I am currerntly, we are a metered market, which means the viewer just consents to having a box installed which tracks what they are viewing and when.
The interesting point is this... If you want to complain about monopolies, Nielsen should most certainly be on your top 10 list. Local TV stations have to pay Nielsen $XXXXX.00 per period. But let's say you are the #2 station in the city, and your city is a diary market, and you have the suspicion that people aren't filling in thier diaries daily, but rather waiting until the end of the month and filling them out all at one time. You want Nielsen to install meters, so you can get an accurate reading. Well now you have to pay 10 times more. Most large cities are metered markets, and that is because, either someone paid all of it, or the competeing stations got together and split the cost. But if you are the #1 station in town, would you split the cost with your competitor if it meant your ratings might decrease?
Nielsen is a horrible system, full of inaccuracies (especially diary markets)but they are the only game in town. Even if there was another company which tracked ratings, clients want your Nielsen numbers, not the "Tuggrussell" numbers.
Always makes me a little angry to think about it. My job depends on a monoploy telling us how many people are watching us in a 5 week period. A monoploy that doesn't care who wins, or how accurate they are, because they are getting paid no matter what.

I try to point out to friends that of the $16 they shelled out for that new RIAA CD $0.16 went into making the CD, $0.016 went to the artist (if they're lucky) and the rest goes to clueless execs' coke habit, promotion for utterly talentless excuses for musicians and lawyers who sue 12 yr olds for thousands of dollars.

Then I write Boycott-RIAA.com on a post-it note and say check this out.

Hey all.. I've been away for quite a while, ya know, life intrudes sometimes. However, in reading this and some other posts lately it makes me glad to be back! IMHO all of the above posts are correct, and all are justified. What makes them unique to each other is that they are INDIVIDUAL opinions. That's the point, and that's the real weapon we have against the Alphabet Lobby.
If we as citizens and people can come together in this type of forum and declare our own feelings/opinions, then "we" as a collective can also take to task the monopolies to show (and by show I mean phyisically SHOW the stuff) the reason and rhyme behind the recent - and not so recent - lawsuits and legal wrangling.
I'm about music for the masses sure. I'm about making the system far more equitable for the artists. I'm about being able to listen/buy/burn what I want, when I want and not have to worry about being sued or getting a nasty email from the BSA.

I'm NOt about 'free' music. I'm not an artist by any means. I can't sing, and I can't play an instrument. However, I'd gladly pay someone who can if I enjoy the product. I won't pay the extortionist prices the RIAA is charging though, for economic and personal reasons. If I had a dime for every RIAA cd I've bought in the past four years.. I'd have 4 nickels.

Got on a bit of a rant there, but the bottom line is...
i've always seen boycott-riaa as a means to express and convey to many people the opinions and outrage of those of us who DO see what's going on as wrong, and DO have ideas/opinions as to what can/should/needs to be done to change it.

Now that I'm back, I hope to be posting more, and listening more. Keep it up folks! a twig can turn even the mightiest river if it is placed right.

ttmmm

"a twig can turn even the mightiest river if it is placed right."

The problem here is that everyone wants to be *that* twig. Nobody wants to be one of the many tree branchs that collects behind that twig and actually causes change.

Admit it.

This is drum circle, and we are the "hippies getting stoned" they make fun of on South Park.

CaptainMorgan,

I would prefer not to insult the hippies with such a broad representation. Not all of us here (well, not myself; I will not speak for anyone else. Speak or lurk as you like) are so anti label that we'll not listen to music we enjoy.

This is no wiser then avoiding an artist because his/her politics don't agree with yours. That somehow makes the artist "bad" to the cause. Laugh laugh.

I'm sorry, when I first joined this site, I thought it was against what the riaa did to the public and the artist. I had no idea it was riaa artist bashing gone wild.

I am not an riaa apologist, nor am I a p2p apologist; I just don't agree with everything the administration seems to.

I realize posting here is primarily a waste of time, end-users typically read this site, those of us in the scene don't really care about it. So I'll resume lurk mode.. as I realize, my existance here is not wanted and is pointless.

Lurking as i find the time,
Raid

Indepedent or die.. yadda ad nausem.

RaidHHI,

I really did not mean to insult anyone who was/is a bonafied 60's hippie.

But anyone who watches the, "Die Hippie, Die" episode of South Park while reading this site, can't help but see the similarities. Personally, I see mroop as Cartman. But that is just me.

Summary
"Hippies figure all throughout this episode, and are protrayed as dreamy people who spend their days listening to reggae music and smoking weed. They'll complain about the world today, but they're not motivated enough to do anything about it....The two singers in the second row sing in the Hippie Jam Band Festival. The first one introduces the concert, the second one agrees with Stan that they should all do something other than complain, but then just starts singing and celebrating freedom."

"I'm sorry, when I first joined this site, I thought it was against what the riaa did to the public and the artist. I had no idea it was riaa artist bashing gone wild.

I am not an riaa apologist, nor am I a p2p apologist; I just don't agree with everything the administration seems to. "

I really have to agree with RaidHHI on this. I'm not apologizing for anything. I figure they are screwing the consumer, the consumer is screwing back. eventually it will work out.

stick around RaidHHI, it may be pointless but it's amusing and I like to see different people post here.

"If a tornado is touching down near your locale, you'll find out about it, even if it isn't sweeps."

Not if your TV is off. I just found out that half the state of Arizona is on fire, which explains all the "clouds" to the north.

"riaa artist bashing gone wild"

Just the ones that suck. We're not buying CDs from the rest of them because the RIAA gets the money.

Tom Petty would be better off financially if you downloaded his latest album and sent him a $5 bill with a Post-It note that says "Thanks for the tunes" than if you bought his CD.

Gee Raid, I thought maybe you might not be with us after the warez crackdown. Still hurting the RIAA by giving away their tunes?

"Not all of us here ... are so anti label that we'll not listen to music we enjoy."

One does not rule out the other. I'm listening to Abbey Road right now.

I'm just not posting it on the Internet. Paul McCartney doesn't want it there.

Touche, George--if you support the artists, why share their music if they don't want you to? I know for a fact I'll never share Sheryl's or the Eagles' music ever again. Shame, too, lots of kids today don't know how good Don Henley can be. They don't listen to classic rock stations, ya know!

Abbey Road? You long-haired hippie you!

Well, a second look on what could be happening could wind up a bright future.

CDs will eventually be legal to copy again, once DRM is in all devices.

On the next computers, we would have the ability to rip CDs...even copy protected ones again. But here's the catch. When you rip a CD, Windows will wrap the WAV or MP3 or whatever with special DRM coding that prevents us from burning that file to another CD. (CD-Rs are obsolete anyways. I don't care about not being able) Also, when you post DRM protected files on the internet, Windows will only take the first 30 seconds of the file and cut the rest off. However, you can edit the DRM-protected files, like a normal sound file. You can even convert it to another sound file. It will still have the DRM encoding attached to it. Also, if you paste a part of a file that has DRM coding, that file you are working on will become a DRM encoded file.

The next wave of copy protected CDs that they will come out will be "Copy proteted but Rippable CDs". It's called CPRCDs. You can rip these CDs like a normal CDs, but these WAV files will have DRM encoded in them, blocking users from posting them on the Internet. They also can't be burned to CDs, but they can be copied to portable devices. Once there, these files can't be copied. However, you can make unlimited copies of that files as long as it's on the same drive. You can edit them. If you copy that file on the same drive, it will still have the DRM attached to it, but that file can be copied again.

With this, you can make a bazillion copies of that file flooding on your hard drive. But this will still prevent piracy, since these copies can't be posted to the Internet or burned to another CD.

DRM will eventually mature, and eventually, it will give more flexibilities to the consumers and also more privacy.

"On the next computers..."

Which is why I'll stick to what I have as long as it runs.

This site seems primarily comprised of we who disagree with current copyright law and the copyright cartel. We also consistently get our asses handed back to us when the courts make a decision. They side with the money. When you all figure out how to get Congress and the courts to serve the people who pay their official salaries, let me know. As long as they get paid more by outside sources, we are screwed.

Any conceivable DRM scheme can be defeated with a $1.99 cable from Radio Shack. Plug that into your analog hole.

George,

"Tom Petty would be better off financially if you downloaded his latest album and sent him a $5 bill with a Post-It note that says "Thanks for the tunes" than if you bought his CD."

I've already done that. I sent the eagles a money order for $10 once as well. I'm not sure anyone in the band actually gets the mail. But, I've sent them money for the music, yes.


"Gee Raid, I thought maybe you might not be with us after the warez crackdown. Still hurting the RIAA by giving away their tunes?"

Ya know George, One can only tolerate being civil with you for so long before one decides to treat you like the pondscum you so deservingly wish to be treated as. We both know what your big issue is with the riaa, can we say "Musical failure?" Face it man, your not good enough. You bombed. Get over it. All this whining and crying and pitchin a fit, get over it!

I suppose if I was a halfass trying to make it, and they shut me out; I might wanna start a website and whine about it too. However, I'd atleast be honest the whole time.

Incidently George, I have nothing to do with warez; have your terminology checked.

JDonahue,

"You can even convert it to another sound file. It will still have the DRM encoding attached to it. Also, if you paste a part of a file that has DRM coding, that file you are working on will become a DRM encoded file."

Your not a programmer are you? (Don't answer it, it's a rhetorical question)

This wouldn't be difficult to prevent, but it would be offly difficult to implement. You can't go around drming .wav files as you please. The .wav format wasn't designed for it, and many programs (think of the games lol) will not appreciate you messing about with the .wav audio files.

Nice try, but you need to work harder on plausable conspiracy theories; Find somebody who knows low level code.. then come back and preach about drm. heh

To the individual who once said his 8 year old daughter could rip cds..

I agree, she probably could. Audiograbber is a pretty simplistic program to use. However, it doesn't do error correction, doesn't do bad sector re-try (it allows for clicks and pops in your .wav file as a result) oh, and it doesn't have proper settings for lame codec. It has xing built in.

While it's true that ripping and encoding isn't rocket science, if your not familiar with the following terms; then it's not something yuo actually know and understand.

Secure Mode Rip
Jitter Correction
Drive ID index


The most popular codecs for mp3 encoding: (Only one is actually acceptable for serious encodings)
FHG - Radium
Lame v3.90.3 modified
Xing

If you are not able to tell me the differences between the 3 codecs listed above, then you do not understand ripping to mp3 as you thought you did. If your looking at this post with a blank stare on your face when I said secure mode rip, then you have no business ripping to mp3s.. yet.

Please don't misunderstand, I don't preach a holier then thou attitude when it comes to this. If your going to rip and encode, you might as well do it the right way. so that your left with the finest mp3s you can possibly make.

if your 8 year old daughter can setup eac by herself, she deserves a raise on her allowance.

I am saying that eventually, due to the try-to-passing DMCRA act of 2005, somebody will hack the DRM coding so that they can have more freedom by files.

That person could not be a pirate, but he could be doing some experiment that would develop a new security system with a program attached to it. How this program works is this.

If you rip an audio CD, the DRM system in your computer is going to write a piece of information at the beginning of that WAV file or MP3 file, saying that this music file has been ripped from the CD. This DRM will tell the system that this WAV or MP3 file is not to be sent online to the Internet or to any outer drives except in secure DRM-protected flash drives or in secured portable electronic devices which can't copy these files to another computer except the computer that you have copy it from.

Remember. I am not a programming geek and not a hacker, but somebody will mature a DRM system, making it more flexible towards consumers while preventing piracy.

The purpose of the new security is to prevent piracy, not to make this a communist country. The only people who want to put tough security measures so that you are restrained severely is Saddam Hussein.

Eventually, DRM will mature, and we can freely use our WAVs, MP3s, and we can edit them and put into custom sound tracks again. But it will block unauthorized spreading of copyrighted materials towards other people. Your message may be true, but technology will improve and ripping will eventually be securely done.

Jdonahue,

"Remember. I am not a programming geek and not a hacker, but somebody will mature a DRM system, making it more flexible towards consumers while preventing piracy."

a programming geek? Ahem, yes.. Okay. Perhaps you should go back to doing whatever it is you do. The concept of your drm while amusing, will not come to pass. You cannot prevent piracy. It's been tried for years and years and years, and it's not going to stop. No Drm system will ever be able to do as your suggesting.

"Eventually, DRM will mature, and we can freely use our WAVs, MP3s, and we can edit them and put into custom sound tracks again. But it will block unauthorized spreading of copyrighted materials towards other people. Your message may be true, but technology will improve and ripping will eventually be securely done."

No. It will not. For it would have to be at the hardware level; I won't buy/own any products that have it at that level where I cannot remove it via firmware mods. If it's at the software level (sometimes, being a "geek" does have it's advantages.. wouldn't ya say?) then i can evade it.

"a programming geek? Ahem, yes.. Okay. Perhaps you should go back to doing whatever it is you do. The concept of your drm while amusing, will not come to pass. You cannot prevent piracy. It's been tried for years and years and years, and it's not going to stop. No Drm system will ever be able to do as your suggesting."

Look 15 years down the road. See what happens.

"No. It will not. For it would have to be at the hardware level; I won't buy/own any products that have it at that level where I cannot remove it via firmware mods. If it's at the software level (sometimes, being a "geek" does have it's advantages.. wouldn't ya say?) then i can evade it."

Intel has stated the next chip will have DRM in it. It's going to be hardware level later on. Right now, it's software. But again. Look down the road. Eventually, devices will have DRM built in, saying who has the rights to use that device.

JDonahue,

"Look 15 years down the road. See what happens"

fair enough. I then use my line in port to record from my old cd player. Woops, so much for ripping (this is considered a line in rip, and is inferior to a digital rip) and thus, so much for tagging my .wav files.

Intel has been vague about what exactly is going to be on the next chip. And if they do wrap it up in drm, it's all over for them.

People will flock to those amd systems then, as long as amd doesn't do it as well. And since amd/intel hate each other, they won't both do the same things to piss off the customer base.

People made a big deal about the pentium 3 serial number, much hoopla about nothing. The serial number isn't even that unique!

This is all garbage like before.

"Ya know George, One can only tolerate being civil with you for so long before one decides to treat you like the pondscum you so deservingly wish to be treated as. We both know what your big issue is with the riaa, can we say "Musical failure?" Face it man, your not good enough. You bombed. Get over it."

It's not about me, you idiot. Just because you are a self-centered fucking asshole that doesn't mean everyone else is.

It's not about me. Never has been. I have children and extremely talented friends. It's about the next generation. It's about the other 300,000 artists.

I was trying to debate properly. But you want to get personal? Bring it on you fucking pirate.

Wow! This got interesting to me now!

RaidHII make as good point when he says,

"If your going to rip and encode, you might as well do it the right way. so that your left with the finest mp3s you can possibly make."

But, he lack's immagination by dismissing DRM. While George, you dismiss how much creativity goes into the innovation necessary to take all given audio streams and reduce them to the tivial number of bits that makes them useful for fitting into an iPod shuffle.

I used to listen to audiophiles lecture me on how CDs were lame (pun intended) because they threw out so much of the audio to compress it into a binary stream small enough to fit on a CD. "Vinyl has so much better audio response," they would say. They should know, they had speakers that cost $10 in 1980.

This is not sarcasm, Laser Turntables exist. What if RaidHHI was to use one of those and to get consumers BETTER than CD quality music from their existing property; would that make him a "pirate" or a huge innovater and benifit to musicians everywhere.

Looking into the future is hard. That is why we all think we are so smart now, but in ten years we marvel over how stupid we were to miss something as obvious as X. (for every future X).


"somebody will mature a DRM system, making it more flexible towards consumers while preventing piracy."

I'm sure JDonahue means some type of future CMS (see DMCA). rather than, the worthLess, encryption based systems of today.

I *AM* a programming geek, and I see one possibility clear as day.

It assures that artists get their well deserved 'just compensation', WITHOUT using encryption, consumer spying, or destroying current first-sale, AHRA, and fair-use rights.

I am not blowing smoke up anyone's ass here. And acceptable CMS system absolutely WILL exist in the future.

That should be obvious to everyone who can look backward; For all previous *futures* an acceptable CMS system HAS been found. It is not that hard to see solutions, if you first presume that they exist in the future and then start imaging backwards from there.

Oh, for an edit button about now.

*speakers that cost $10K*

"While George, you dismiss how much creativity goes into the innovation necessary to take all given audio streams and reduce them to the tivial number of bits that makes them useful for fitting into an iPod shuffle."

No, I don't. Where did I say that.

What I dismiss is someone who is proud to be one of the people ripping CDs and putting them on the Internet. Period.

Then he comes in here and gives us this line of "I'm sorry, when I first joined this site, I thought it was against what the riaa did to the public and the artist."

This guy does not care one bit what happens to any of the artists. He sent $20 bucks to the Eagles. Big fucking deal. I gave Marty Balin (Jefferson Airplane/Starship) and Country Joe McDonald $5000 each to stay home one weekend.

He works at a help desk and calls himself an IT professional.

As for all this crap about bending the twig...

Chain saws and dynamite will take care of the tree. Want to change the course of the river? Divert it upstream.

"No, I don't. Where did I say that."

Well I came in late, maybe I misunderstood.

I have no problem with ripping CDs, I think that is a very useful and legal skill if he wants to apply it. Personally, I think it would be WAY COOLER, if he was ripping older vinyl that has never been released on CD. Preferably using Dr. Evil's ill tempered laser turntable.

I also think that sharing your vinyl, CDs, and even rips and mixes with your friends is legal and reasonable behavior. But, I don't have many friends, and that is another fight.
-------
The important thing is that you are winning George. The river IS diverting itself up stream. It is about to leave all of the recording industry's current wharfs high and dry.

If you and your other musician friends actually stake out a claim now, the river and its waterfront property will come to you.

You are a musician. You already know there is no "Music Industry". What exists is a "Recording Industry", or more properly a "Phonorecords Industry".

Someone once said, "I sell millions of 1/4 inch drill bits to people who don't even want 1/4 inch drill bits. What they want are 1/4 inch holes!"

The Recording Industry sells millions of phonorecords to people who don't want to own phonorecords, the people want to LISTEN TO MUSIC!

Most people don't buy the music they listen to at all. I know I don't. We don't fee evil in the least, because someone has already taken the time to create a business model to accomodates us. We do our job and they do theirs. We LISTEN and they pay... for the radio.

Now, that Apple has brought podcasting to the masses, there's fixen to be a land rush in Kansas again. If you and your friends were to get together and hack up a music podcast, with only GOOD music, you could pwn the industry.

And if you wanted, RaidHHI could probably get the music served for you for free, using p2p.

I'm guessing that within two months; Someone like RaidHHI will sort out that with one small tweek to p2p clients, you can *Broadcast* an iTunes playlist, using only non-copyrightable song names, and a varient of Magnet-Links as URLs.

Then iTunes will play the music through HTTP streaming without making a copy.

But instead of requiring you to pay for a huge expensive streaming server, instead you can take advantage of each listener's p2p streaming server, for free.

"If a tornado is touching down near your locale, you'll find out about it, even if it isn't sweeps."

Not if your TV is off. I just found out that half the state of Arizona is on fire, which explains all the "clouds" to the north.

Quite true, but you can't blame the TV station for not informing you if the TV isn't on. The point was that some services that TV stations provide do so despite ratings. Severe weather alerts are one of those.

George,

I told you I did not work at a help desk; and I don't. I am in the IT field. I'm one of the guys who drives around and fixes/troubleshoots network installations for sams/walmart etc. You know, the POS cash registers? One of my job duties is for NET to (they are a reseller of IT support to retail industry) go and fix the register, reset the main box (it's typically an old 486 running novell with POS software)

I also do contractual programming work for NET and NAC companies.

Helpdesk my ass.

"t's not about me, you idiot. Just because you are a self-centered fucking asshole that doesn't mean everyone else is."

George, Back this up. In what possible way am I self centered? I don't agree with your fuck the riaa artist stance, no. I agree with death to the riaa, but not by depriving myself or others of decent music. I don't agree with your take on some things, but that does not make me self centered.


"It's not about me. Never has been. I have children and extremely talented friends. It's about the next generation. It's about the other 300,000 artists."

What do your children have to do with the riaa stance you have? The next generation? I don't follow. You don't need the riaa for music, music long existed before them. You hate individuals like me who do nothing but offer music for free; simply because we enjoy music. I bet tho, if were only stocked "INDIE INDIE INDIE" you wouldn't complain. But, since you know we don't discriminate based on label, you whine about us. And really, it's a whine.


"I was trying to debate properly. But you want to get personal? Bring it on you fucking pirate."

If your going to debate properly, use the correct terms when insulting one. By CodeWarriors own definition, I do not qualify as a pirate; I don't sail the high seas. Hypocrite.

What I dismiss is someone who is proud to be one of the people ripping CDs and putting them on the Internet. Period.
"

Yep; I'm not ashamed of it. I'm proud of the work we put into it, to encode them as best as can possibly be done using today's codec technology. I see nothing wrong with being proud of a good job.

Are you not proud of anything George?

"Then he comes in here and gives us this line of "I'm sorry, when I first joined this site, I thought it was against what the riaa did to the public and the artist."

And where was I wrong in this assumption? Someone else also thought the same thing, I see you dismiss that individual however.

"This guy does not care one bit what happens to any of the artists. He sent $20 bucks to the Eagles. Big fucking deal."

I think it is you who doesn't care. If they signed a record contract, you hate them. If they are indie and barely surviving, you like them. Your your own worst enemy.

" I gave Marty Balin (Jefferson Airplane/Starship) and Country Joe McDonald $5000 each to stay home one weekend."

Good for you. Did you have a problem with a concert now too? So what is it George, cds or concerts or both?

"But instead of requiring you to pay for a huge expensive streaming server, instead you can take advantage of each listener's p2p streaming server, for free."

George clearly doesn't understand the concept of free bandwidth and advertising as ripping groups do. Remember, he considers me the enemy.

What about the ill tempered Laser Turntables RaidHHI?

"What about the ill tempered Laser Turntables RaidHHI? "

I don't have several thousand on hand to allocate towards one right now. We're still primarily concentrating on cd ripping. Vinyl would be analog.. however, it can be done. We just don't have time/funds/resources (records) to process right now.

Groked.

As long as you make it clear you are using ill-tempered ripping drives with laser heads.

Any links to this "we're" you speak of? Probably not I'm guessing.

"As long as you make it clear you are using ill-tempered ripping drives with laser heads. "

The accompanying .nfo file would clearly state that the accompanying .mp3 album is from a record (lol!) and what equipment/software was used to convert it. We're open with regard to what we use, as are most other serious ripping groups. Peer review and all.

"Any links to this "we're" you speak of? Probably not I'm guessing."

I don't think it would be a very good idea to provide you with links to our group on a forum such as this. We don't need any holier then thou persons causing problems.

However, I can provide you with lists of what it is we have; for your own personal evaluation of course. You can reach me via the following address.

raidslam at yahoo dot com