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EMILY, 14, IS CAUGHT OUT OVER INTERNET
Posted by OtherMike (Shmoo) in on June 21, 2005 at 9:46 PM



EMILY, 14, IS CAUGHT OUT OVER INTERNET --Gloucestershire/Echo

10:30 - 20 June 2005
Sylvia Price could go to jail or be fined £4,000 after her daughter downloaded music from the internet. The 53-year-old couldn't believe it when she came home from work to find a summons from a London solicitors.

Wiggins Solicitors, who prosecute internet pirates on behalf of record companies, say Mrs Price's daughter Emily, 14, has been breaking the law for two years.

Emily says she didn't know that the file-sharing program she used was wrong.

Mrs Price has been told she must pay a £4,000 fine by July 1 or go to prison.

Emily had downloaded 1,400 songs on to her computer, including albums by her favourite bands Oasis and Coldplay.

The teenager, who goes to Kingsmead School in Cheltenham, downloaded the songs in her bedroom without her mum knowing.

Mrs Price, who lives in Fullbrook Close, Springbank, says she can't pay the fine.

She said: "I don't know where I'm going to get the money from.

"I'll have to go to prison because I haven't got that kind of money.

"I'm worried. I arrived home from work to find this letter and I don't know what to do.

"I don't even know how to use a computer.

"I've never even switched one on. I just pay the bills.

"Emily has it in her bedroom to help her with her school work.

"I saw a TV programme about downloading music the other week.

"I asked Emily if she was doing it and she said she wasn't."

Emily said she didn't think what she was doing was wrong.

She said: "Everyone I know at school does it. I download songs from other people's files but didn't know it was wrong.

"I think I've been picked on because my computer is on all the time and people have downloaded music from my files."

Thousands of people use file sharing software like Kazaa or Livewire to download music.

The program lets users swap music files - if one user has a song, everyone else using the network can also download it.

The first music-sharing program, Napster, now charges people for legal downloads after losing a court battle two years ago.


User Comments

Advancedcompmore
Date: June 21, 2005 @ 10:16 PM
Here we go again. I know where this debate is going and who's going to take what side.

"Ding!!" Round one.....
Advancedcaptdunsel
Date: June 21, 2005 @ 11:12 PM
so do they still have debtors prison in England?
DMemberRattlehead
Date: June 22, 2005 @ 10:09 AM
That has got to be the lamest, misinformed article I've ever heard.

"Thousands of people use file sharing software like Kazaa or Livewire to download music."

Okay, first of all, it's Limewire. Second, make that "Millions of people". What a turd.
Chief Op OfficerShadowMom
Date: June 22, 2005 @ 12:01 PM
If they put this woman in prison (which I doubt they really will), it will be a bigger PR nightmare than Brianna was. Besides, how will they ever get their money if she's incarcerated? Stupid people!
IntermediateINeedAlover
Date: June 22, 2005 @ 1:47 PM
"The program lets users swap music files - if one user has a song, everyone else using the network can also download it."

Right. That's why you don't SHARE RIAA music. It's also the reason she got sued, not for downloading, but for SHARING. These lamely-written articles by people that don't know a damn thing about what they are writing about need to get a clue.
Advancedmroop
Date: June 22, 2005 @ 3:02 PM
Who believes that this kid really didn't know she could get busted for what she was doing? If I was her I would lie too. I bet she will be grounded for a week!
Advancedcompmore
Date: June 22, 2005 @ 3:16 PM
hahahahahahahahaha
IntermediateRaidHHI
Date: June 22, 2005 @ 5:42 PM
The bigger question I suppose is why is this even posted? The girl got caught sharing files thru p2p (ho hum.. when will people learn..). She isn't being wrongly targetted. it's not a case of mistaken identity. And I'm sorry, but in this day and age; you'd have to live in a cave NOT to know sharing riaa music might land you a lawsuit. Hello. hahaha.

Lame..
Advancedcompmore
Date: June 22, 2005 @ 8:30 PM
playing basketball in your driveway next door to a neighbor who works graveyard can land you a lawsuit. letting your child (who's never had an altercation) use the family car can land you in a lawsuit. Just being famous or having lots of money brings out frivous lawsuits. Lawsuits aren't used for justice or determining right from wrong anymore. they're used for extortion, intimidation, punishment and to make money. it's an investment with guarenteed returns. We're not even sure it's illegal yet. I can guarentee everyone that IF it is illegal and the lawsuits cost the industry more money than it makes they wouldn't be doing it at all.
Chief Op OfficerShadowMom
Date: June 22, 2005 @ 8:46 PM
mroop and RaidHHI, I hope you people don't have kids. If you do, I hope your kids are so well-informed and scared of you that they never do anything like this. But if they do, I hope you'll share it with all of us. Do you have any idea how many kids this age really don't know filesharing can get them in trouble? Unless one of their friends have been sued, they probably don't...so lay off the little girl. The bad guys are the ones suing, remember?
Advancedmroop
Date: June 22, 2005 @ 9:42 PM
"Do you have any idea how many kids this age really don't know filesharing can get them in trouble? Unless one of their friends have been sued, they probably don't."

I was just down the street at my local pizza joint where I sometimes hang out because I know the owner. I asked his 15 year old niece (who just turned 15) who is a waitress if she knew you can get sued. She said she knew it and so do all her friends. That's the only empirical evidence I can provide.
Advancedmroop
Date: June 22, 2005 @ 9:45 PM
"so lay off the little girl."

And I don't think I said anything harsh. I just said I think the girl is lying. I also said I would lie too. What do you expect from a kid who just got her mom in big trouble? Her mom already said in the article that her daughter lied to her.

"I saw a TV programme about downloading music the other week.

"I asked Emily if she was doing it and she said she wasn't."
Chief Op OfficerShadowMom
Date: June 22, 2005 @ 11:58 PM
Maybe the kids in your area are a little more well-informed than in my neighborhood. I had some Boycott stickers one afternoon when school ended, and discovered that most of the kids who came by never even heard of the RIAA. And I stand corrected--you did say she was lying, and her mom says she lied to her. At that point, though, she probably had already been found out. Guilty of such a horrible crime, too! Fourteen years old--old enough to know better than to lie, for sure. But not old enough for all this guilt.
Advancedcompmore
Date: June 23, 2005 @ 12:55 AM
Shadowmom you're awesome. I don't think there's a teenager in the history of mankind (including those adults who criticize them) who hasn't broken the law and could've gotten in big trouble if they had gotten caught. Is the little girl lying? maybe.

I remember during Vietnam when kids were breaking the law right and left with sit in's, blocking traffic etc... to protest the war. they were ridiculed and critized by the adults of that time but you hear very few people today who will blame their civil disobedoence. many went to jail knowing they did wrong, many honestly didn't feel they did wrong or didn't know they could get arrested.
DMemberCapt-n-Jack
Date: June 23, 2005 @ 2:02 AM
Would they go so far as to put a teen in jail if the Parent couldn't pay?
DMembergodless-heathen
Date: June 23, 2005 @ 4:32 AM
Again, I'm feeling particularliy dumb, isn't £4,000 something like $8000 . Where in the world would any working family come up with that kind of money in the first place? That's more than a fine, that's a major financial hardship. And again, I feel this "crime" is the equivalent of jay-walking. Imagine a $8000 fine for not knowing exactly where to cross the street.

The letter of the law may be right here, but I don't think any law should destroy the future of whole families for such a common act.
Chief Op OfficerShadowMom
Date: June 23, 2005 @ 9:53 AM
Hi, comp, I remember those days, too. If a law is wrong, it has to be changed. And in my opinion, this is basically a victimless crime. Nothing is taken away from the record company, and if they weren't so damn greedy they'd be capitalizing on p2p, not trying to control and eventually kill it. I doubt this lady will actually go to jail; the press would have a field day with it (I would hope they still have the guts for it).

If the record companies (RIAA, BPI, and all the other denizens of hell) mean what they say about educating, why don't they first send out a C&D letter to these kids, like they do to p2p sites? Wouldn't that be better than suing people who have so little to start with? A C&D letter would scare most kids and the parents would know ahead of time what their kids had been doing. Since they've chosen to sue instead of educate, it appears that they've decided extortion is better for their wallets.
RockgdZiemann
Date: June 23, 2005 @ 2:00 PM
A teenager who did something their parent told them not to? Oh, the horror!
IntermediateRaidHHI
Date: June 24, 2005 @ 2:27 PM
Thats right, poor little teenager; She got caught with her hand in the cookie jar, but it's the big bad wolf who should be blamed. Not the poor innocent little one. Cry me a river.

Look, I've always said I hated the riaa/ that i do not support them, etc etc etc. But, lets not be stupid people. If your taking the risk of downloading/sharing riaa music via p2p channels; then you deserve to be sued if your caught.

It's all over the newspapers, it's on rental dvds now, it's on movie theaters and in regular news print. Shit, some schools are even teaching classes about this. And then we have the net, that's always talking about it. Their is simply NO freaking way that girl didn't know. No way. Sorry, I don't buy it.

Gdziemann,

Some teenagers never live past it due to things they did they were told not to do; Drinking and driving killed several of my teenage friends 10+ years ago. They knew better, they did it anyway. They're invincible after all. (Or so they would like to believe).

ShadowMom,

"A C&D letter would scare most kids and the parents would know ahead of time what their kids had been doing. Since they've chosen to sue instead of educate, it appears that they've decided extortion is better for their wallets."

And the parents would do what? How many more people have to be paraded before people stop and understand, that you can be sued for copying things you didn't pay for, and don't have permission for. Just because it's private use or whatever doesn't mean it's okay.

I know of several individuals locally who got C&D letters at the beginning for trading some music and software. They laughed and ignored it. While I don't know what became of it, it did little to stop there activities.

They are educating ShadowMom, you must live in an extremely rural farm county with no radio and tv to miss it.
Advancedcompmore
Date: June 24, 2005 @ 5:36 PM
"then you deserve to be sued if your caught."

only if it's illegal
Advancedcompmore
Date: June 24, 2005 @ 5:38 PM
"How many more people have to be paraded before people stop and understand,"


Remember that next time you're caught speeding and the cop doesn't give you a break.
RockgdZiemann
Date: June 24, 2005 @ 7:31 PM
Follow-up from the Guardian

Gina Harkell, a jazz musician from north London, is familiar with Mrs Price's predicament. In April she also received one of the BPI's envelopes after her 19-year-old son, Louis, was caught downloading songs from Kazaa.

At the time Ms Harkell was in the process of putting the finishing touches to her third CD, The Bird in Me. Louis's £2,500 fine, which her partner was being asked to pay because his name was on the internet account, came to half what she had just spent in the studio and on CD artwork.

At first she was appalled. She wasn't able to confront Louis directly as he had just left for his gap year in Thailand. However, in a series of email exchanges interspersed with expletives, he explained that nowhere on Kazaa did it say that filesharing was illegal. He also said that he had never received a warning email from the BPI.

When pressed by his mother, Louis admitted that he had known he was stealing, but that through Kazaa he had been able to re-educate himself musically: "He was mainly downloading songs by Bob Dylan and Otis Redding, stuff he would never have gone into a store and bought," says Ms Harkell."My feeling is that we were used as scapegoats. The BPI is trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. Yes, I would like people to pay for my music but I do not think prosecut ing people for file sharing is the way forward."

Indeed, Ms Harkell points out that for every musician friend who thought Louis ought to be "locked up", there was another who admitted that he or she illegally shared files.

She also points out that for many struggling musicians, starved of airplay and review space, file sharing is an increasingly important promotional tool.

One company which has embraced this philosophy is IE Music, whose artists include Robbie Williams, Craig David and The Sweet Chap, aka Mike Comber, a relative unknown from Brighton. Last year, IE Music did a deal with Kazaa, allowing file sharers to sample Comber's tracks for free.

He got 70,000 hits and 500 sales - a key factor in his subsequently agreeing a record deal with Protest. The result is that music fans can now download tracks from his new album, Disco for a Domestic, for free for a limited period from Protest's website before deciding to commit themselves to buying it.

"For me file sharing was a great way of getting people to listen to my music," says Comber. "Obviously if it doesn't translate into sales then I will be disappointed. But while I think there should be some copyright protection for artists I don't believe that prosecuting children is the way forward."

The BPI begs to differ. It says that once people get a taste for illegal file sharing, they are twice as likely to reduce or stop their retail purchases of records.

"This is a pragmatic, commercial business," says Steve Redmond. "If we thought file sharing was a wonderful promotional tool we might take a different view, but it isn't. The fact is if you didn't have speed cameras people would speed, and if we don't show that the copyright law has teeth we're going to be out of business."

So far, most people targeted by the BPI have paid up. According to the BPI, it is not in the business of punishing respondents. After getting in touch with the BPI, Ms Harkell was able to negotiating paying the first £500 of Louis's fine. He will have to pay off the remainder at a rate of £25 a month when he starts university in September. "I've told him he won't be drinking much beer in the union bar," says Ms Harkell.

However, Mrs Price argues that paying is simply not an option for her or her daughter. "I'm not going into debt," she says. "Emily just saw the words, 'download for free'. It's not her fault she didn't read the small print."

When is it illegal to share files?

Filesharing programs like Kazaa, are effectively a huge network of "friends" lending each other their CDs for copying. The software enables you to search the directories of other users on-line and automatically download music files from their computers.

The business of catching file-sharers is far more low-tech than might be imagined. The BPI simply logs on to the filesharing networks and searches for copyrighted tracks. After finding a user downloading the file, the sharer's details are logged. Then the user's address is traced via their internet service provider and a summons is issued.

It is not actually illegal to own filesharing software, nor is it necessarily against the law to use it. The programs have legitimate uses, such as distributing copyright-free music. However, the vast majority of music available will be copyrighted, and downloading it will be a breach of the 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patent Act.

While the authorities consider downloaders a pest, it is those who make their music libraries accessible - the "uploaders" - that have been the main focus of the BPI's litigation.

Many file-sharers try to avoid detection by switching off the upload function. But a recent survey by Entertainment Media Research found that the BPI's campaign had prompted many serial downloaders to abandon filesharing.

But it is arguable that the arrival of big, legal download services, such as Apple's iTunes store, has had a greater effect. This week Apple said iTunes had broken 50m sales in Europe, with downloads far outstripping physical purchases of singles.

Other fast-growing sites include Napster, which lets users download as many tracks as they like for a flat subscription fee, Playlouder MSP, Sony Connect and MyCokeMusic.

However, some filesharing sites that purport to be legal aren't. The rule is that if the prices seem too good to be true, they are.

While the industry blames filesharing for the decline in CD single sales, traffic across Kazaa, one of the most popular networks, has dropped by more than 50% since its peak in 2003.

More than 237m albums were sold in the UK last year, a record figure driven by decreasing retail prices.

In spite of fears that the leak of Coldplay's new album X&Y over the internet would damage sales, the album shot straight to No 1, registering 460,000 sales in the first week, the second highest number on record.

Case study: 'My knowledge of music is greater'

Louis Harkell was fined for downloading music from Kazaa.

The last email I expected from my parents while teaching in Thailand was one saying I'd been fined £2,500 for downloading music from Kazaa. I had roughly 1,000 tunes which I had made available for upload. Uploading is what turned out to be the illegal action. Yet never does it say on Kazaa that what you are doing is illegal.

Having broadband and Kazaa meant I had hundreds of thousands of tunes at my fingertips. I'd write a list of tunes I wanted, queue them up before I went to bed and have a whole new section of music in the morning. I totally re-educated myself musically. When you compare that to slogging about a music store to buy an album which costs £12 and which has only two or three tracks on that you like, it's hard not to see why so many people do it.

Yet I know that it is stealing. I am stealing from someone what they've rightfully earned and I only have to look at my mother, who sings and records jazz, to know that making music is a long, hard process.

Yet, my knowledge of music is much greater and I have often bought an album by an artist I've discovered through Kazaa. Kazaa and other file-sharing devices may actually be the revival of small-time music producers.

I certainly won't be downloading music again. I know my friends will be less sure too. I've been burnt badly. Yet this does not make me look kindly upon the music industry, who dominate the production of music, feeding us glammed-up dross and getting upset when people go looking for something different.
IntermediateRaidHHI
Date: June 25, 2005 @ 4:27 PM
compmore,

"Remember that next time you're caught speeding and the cop doesn't give you a break."

Why should I complain if he catches me? Obviously, if I'm speeding, I'm probably aware of it. They have these things called speed limit signs posted in various places on the road your on. Common sense says it's a good idea to make sure your vehicle is doing no more then that posted speed. :) (Smile)

DMemberaudioone
Date: April 14, 2006 @ 11:46 AM
Just think about it, got to raise money somehow to pay for the wars. Need money to rebuild Bagdad. What better than paying fines to pay for wars.
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