Kids, blogs and too much information
Children reveal more online than parents know
By Bob Sullivan
Technology correspondent

Updated: April 29, 2005


URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7668788/

Marcy's 13-year-old daughter has a knack for switching computer
screens or shutting the laptop when mom walks in the room. Like in
many families, the two often argue about whether mom has the right to
see what her daughter is doing online. The conversation is never
really resolved.

But a few months ago, Marcy's need to keep up with her daughter's
Internet travels took on a new urgency when she found an unfinished
message on the screen urging a friend to check out her daughter's
picture on a special Web page her daughter had set up.

With that, Marcy made a discovery thousands of parents around the
country are making -- teenagers are among the most active Internet
bloggers, and many are posting pictures, names, addresses, schools,
even phone numbers, almost always without their parent's knowledge.

"It blew me away," said Marcy, who requested her full name not be
used. "And I just lost it. I sat my daughter down and said, 'Do you
realize how inappropriate and how dangerous this is? Here's your face.
Here's the town you come from. Do you realize how many sick people are
out there?' "

To see her daughter's site, Marcy had to sign up with a service named
MySpace.com. When she did, she found her daughter's page, personal
information, and pictures. But she also found a list of her daughter's
friends, and made another discovery -- almost all of her 8th-grade
classmates at George Washington Middle School in suburban Ridgewood,
N.J. had pages on MySpace.

"And their pictures are very provocative," Marcy said. "There's shots
with their butt in the air, with their thongs sticking out of it. They
squeeze their elbows together to make their boobs look bigger."

One-third of students have blogs
Soon after, Marcy went to the middle school and talked with its
technology coordinator, Mary Ellen Handy, who volunteers with
WiredSafety.org. Handy discovered that about one-third of her 250
students have Internet blogs -- and only about 5 percent of the
parents know about it.

"The girls are all made up to look seductive....Parents have no clue
this is going on," she said. "You think your kid is safe because they
are in your house in their own bedroom. Who can hurt them when you are
guarding the front door? But (the Internet) is a bigger opening than
the front door."

Blogs and their technology cousins, social networking sites, are all
the rage among young Internet users. About half of all blogs are
authored by teenagers, according to a 2003 study by Perseus
Development Corp.; and according to comScore Media Metrix, a majority
of the top 15 sites visited by teens 17 and under in January 2005 were
either blogs or social networking sites.

But it's what's on the sites that concerns Handy and other experts. A
study of teenagers' blogs published this year by the Children's
Digital Media Center at Georgetown University revealed that kids
volunteer far too much information. Two-thirds provide their age and
at least their first name; 60 percent offer their location and contact
information. One in five offer up their full name.

"I wonder if a lot of the bloggers are ... really cognizant that the
whole world can read their blog?" said David Huffaker, who authored
the study.

Experts interviewed for this article could not cite a single case of a
child predator hunting for and finding a child through a blog. But
there are cases of children being lured through other Internet
services, such as chat rooms.

"I don't see why pedophiles wouldn't use this tool, if this is where
kids are," said Ann Coulier of Net Family News.

Great source of friends
Blogs and community sites are a great source of entertainment and
networking for teenagers. High school junior Mary Ellen Handy -- Mary
Lou's daughter -- said most of her friends began blogging when they
were freshman.

"You can meet a lot of people. I go to an all girls' school, and it's
a great way to meet guys from other schools," Mary Lou, who opened her
MySpace account at 15, said. While she's attuned to safety issues,
"the sad thing is a lot of girls put their addresses, other personal
information. So many people don't know what's going on how vulnerable
they can be."

Because they need a user name and password to join services like
MySpace, experts say that many teenage users assume the site is
protected. "But then they put their school name in, or their school
team name," said. Anne Collier, editor of NetFamilyNews. "They don't
realize somebody could put two and two together and figure out who
they are."

An 'attention competition'
Parry Aftab, who runs the WiredSafety.org program, says she doesn't
think any blogs or community sites "out there are safe for kids." She
says her organization gets complaints every day. "There are underage
kids on every social networking site on the Net. They are engaging in
highly provocative conversations and doing things they would never do
offline."

Because there are so many kid blogs -- about 6 million, Aftab
estimates -- many authors try to outdo each other to get visitors.
Often, that includes provocative comments and images.

"It is an attention competition," she said.

MySpace.com, which has 13 million users, says it has a strict policy
of not allowing members who are under 16. Spokesman Bennet Ratcliff
says the firm immediately removes sites that are in violation of the
terms of service, including any site with too much personal
information. But many bloggers get around the rule by lying about
their age. MSNBC.com found when browsing the site that on several
pages, kids who say they are 16 later state in their personal
descriptions that they are younger.

"People are taken off the site whenever they are found," he said.
Ratcliff wouldn't say how often that occurs.

LiveJournal, another popular site, allows 13-16 year olds to post.
Some 400,000 of its 7 million users are under 16, according to the
site. Executives there say most people have a positive experience, and
it plays an important role in helping young people find each other and
learn to express themselves. It does not screen user content,
according to Kevin Krim, head of subscriptions services at Six Apart,
which acquired LifeJournal earlier this year.

"Like an (Internet service provider) or domain host, it's neither
feasible nor appropriate for us to be playing a role as editor or
censor or making judgement calls," Krim said.

But Huffaker said the sites deserve some blame for the release of
personal information. In the sign-up process, many ask for e-mail
address, for example. Merely asking the question urges kids to answer
it, making them think revealing the information is safe.

Kids blogs can be positive
Handy said parents who discover blogs should try not to overreact and
immediately shut off Internet access or community sites; there is a
safe way to blog, she said.

"That is the first reaction parents have, to cut them off" she said.
"But the kids know that, and they don't want to lose the Internet, so
they don't tell their parents what they are doing. And you don't want
that. You want the lines of communication open."

She said parents need to be much more involved with their kids'
computer use than they are. Many just turn on the Internet access and
walk away.

"If they are going to have a computer in the house, they need to be
trained," she said. "You don't give a kid a car without proper
training. This is just hazardous."

Sandra Calvert, a psychology professor at Georgetown's Children's
Digital Media Center, and co-author of Huffaker's study, says parents
shouldn't be dismissive of blogging. "(Students) are learning some
basic programming skills. It's teaching them to be Internet savvy, how
to make things, how to be creative."

Krim offered a similar defense for child blogging.

"For every off-color picture you might find, you are also going to
find a number of kids having really interesting conversations about
their developing views of spirituality, what they think about war.
Those are good things to be thinking about," Krim said.

What parents should do
While finding a blog can be jarring, Coulier said "the Internet
presents a remarkable opportunity to parents and kids for a kind of
partnership." Kids can teach their parents about the technology, while
parents can teach their kids Internet street smarts, she said.

But there are some basic steps parents can take to increase their
child's online safety.

Use a password-protection feature that genuinely does limit access to
sites, says Huffaker. Livejournal's Krim says one-quarter of the posts
on the site are limited to "friends only."

But not every child will be that cooperative, Aftab says. That's why
it's also a good idea to occasionally search for your child's
biographic information online.

"Talk to your kids. Say 'I read this article, do you go to a social
networking Web site? And if you are not sure, 'Google' the kids.
Search for their real name, their address, their telephone number,
screen name, nickname." That's the best way to find any surprise
blogs, she said.

That advice may or may not help Marcy, who says her experience of
finding her daughter's blog left a rift in the relationship. She's
concerned the girl may put up another site without her knowledge,
using a name she wouldn't know. As a parent, she feels overwhelmed
trying to keep up with each new Internet trend. She's barely gotten
used to instant message services, and now she has to worry about
blogs.

"I'm not sure there's anything that can (fix this), it is so difficult
to police these sites," she said. "How do you prove a kid is 16 or
older? Maybe information could come from the schools, newsletters
that say, 'These are things kids are suddenly participating in
online,' But it is very scary, and you don't know who's hands this
information is falling into."
(c) 2005 MSNBC Interactive

(c) 2005 MSNBC.com

what's scary about this is not just the pedifiles and sicko's out there. it's the normal high scholl socialization process. My daughter had a blog of her own where she posted her thoughts but no private information, like a diary. You can see the problem of opening your diary to all your friends. she made a lot of enemy's among her former friends and it turned into a social war and my daughter was devestated and couldn't understand what happened. we finally got her to stop.

I own 180 websites. You don't see me posting pictures of my ass.
2. What do you think is going on with these picture and video cell phones? Nice little pictures of still lifes and lakes?

The person had a good response about parents needing to more active with their kids. Don't ban them completely from the internet, that is taking a lot of lines to the outside world for them, but don't let them run too freely. Parents need to sit their kids down and just talk about the internet, it's dangers, etc. My parents did that, and maybe it's just my way to take their advice, but it helped me lead a safe fun internet experience without having to hide from them.

Education is the key and parents need to realise that once in awhile they need to do some parenting.

Well put BrainToad, can't agree more.

Lets face it. Kids hormones are all over the place and sex is something they will always be interested in. Girls like to flaunt it with cheeky photos amongst their friends I guess. But when you put that stuff online for anyone in the world to view it's a whole new ballgame. Witness the various sites selling supposedly legal memberships to photos of children in their underwear posing provocatively. The parents ARE to blame in these instance of course.

Parents need to tactfully get involved with the childrens online interests without alienating them. Being a parent is not that easy as anyone who has a child will know. But simply ignoring what your child does on line is not going to help either.

This is pretty scary but I have to wonder which is worse. having them post pictures of their ass on the internet or playing that "snap" game with the wrist bands? (any parents with teenage daughters should be really worried about that one) what hair I have left is turning white.

I think this is a very important issue. Like lef, I have been profilifc at spreading my thoughts and blogs around the net...

The universality of readers of blogs is staggering. On analysis of some of my sites, I find people from just about every country one can think of, and I do think that, owing to the immaturity of young folks, not only do they not realize just the scope of the audience they have with their little pages and blogs, but, as compmore said, there are pedophiles out there who regularly scan the net for victims, and certainly, a young boy or girl does NOT need to be releasing their personal information out onto the dark and stormy waters of the internet.

It really is the duty of any parent who has young children who have access to the net, and especially, if they endeavor to put up personal blogs and websites, to educate them about what I call the "Principles of Net Safety".

leflaw we dont want to see your ass

and I moniter my child when he is on the internet, its not the sites fault its the parents not paying close enough attention to there kids and what there doing.

There are a lot of diary sites out there. Greatest Journal, xanga, Blurty, Live Journal, Dead Journal, Diary Land. Yes, I have a teenager.

"The parents ARE to blame in these instance of course."

Wrong, you're passing the blame to someone else when the finger has to be pointed in the direction of the kids who SHOULD know better. Judging against the parents serves only as an excuse for children to continue getting away without any punishment to worry about.

I think children AND parents must both understand the seriousness and wider issues of internet posting and information sharing by children, and of course, it depends on the age of the child.

good point Q2 !

Absolutely, Code!

My kids have journals. I told them not to post their date of birth. We talked about identity theft. But that's all I've been reading about in the past month! Banks, credit card companies, retail stores, and college have personal information. And it's not secure. So, even if you have not posted information on the internet, or you haven't used the internet to shop or do your banking, your personal information may be out there!
Read this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7680843/

I so incredibly hate stories like these, the internet is always always given the worst spin people can ever give it.

Give your kids the privacy they want as breaking it is more likely to create an even more giant rift that will cause them to just get better at avoiding what you want.

All I know is, if i ever have kids, especially daugther(s) i will make it clear, becareful of guys but i've met alot of awesome people entirely and soley from the internet so i'd pursue them meeting them at my home as opposed to her sneaking around.

and in relevance to what i said, if there is an age difference i think parents should be more concerned about them being in thier homes as opposed to sneaking around

to sum it up, trust your kids they're not as big of idiots as u think they are. welcome to our generation

Guess I should mention because of myspace i've met a bunch of girls that are around my school and I found an apartment that i really needed because the 1 girl was moving out. Thank you internet and myspace.

But yes theres alot of teenage girls with attention getting pics, they want the attention and know they'll get it that way.

Darkened is right. kids are not idiots, however they are impressionable. no matter how smart my kids are (and they are brillant full of common sense), they have not experienced much of the seedy side of life. They need guidence. I've never violated my kids privacy except for once when we had good reason. the inspection of my daughters room confirmed our suspicions. she has done a complete turn around and has made us proud. without our intervention who knows where she'd be now. All parents make many mistakes and all Teenagers think their parents are intrusive. I did as a teen. All you young people out there, just remember we were all teenagers like you and rebeled like you. We made it through and can see things from the other side of the fence where you haven't had that oprotunity yet. We, as parents, just want to help you get into life with a good start. Right or wrong it's done out of love.

Date: April 30, 2005 @ 12:11 PM
"The parents ARE to blame in these instance of course."

Wrong, you're passing the blame to someone else when the finger has to be pointed in the direction of the kids who SHOULD know better. Judging against the parents serves only as an excuse for children to continue getting away without any punishment to worry about. "

Wrong Wrong.
The way the laws are set up, the only ones who CAN punish a kid in ANY way is the parent. An adult can't even tell a kid in a stern voice to get off his lawn without risking jail. The only place discipline can truly come from IS the parent. I am a father of twin teenage girls. They use the Internet, a lot. I monitor them remotely all the time and they know it. IF they mess up because of what I have not taught them, or talked about it IS MY FAULT. If they continue to screw up because I don't discipline them, it IS MY FAULT.
Parents need to act like parents and not pals.

LOL Dreddsnik you sound like Dr. Phill.

Dr. Phil's mom must have brushed his hair when she was very angry.
\http://www.jumptheshark.com/d/drphil.htm

http://www.bigfatblog.com/discussions/archives/001031.php

http://www.agelesslove.com/boards/showthread.php?t=16596
"Did anyone watch Dr. Phil today? (Feb 14). What a jerk! The first segment was about an older woman who enjoyed relationships with yms and her son felt creepy about it. Dr. Phil then went on to, IMO completely insult ALL age gap relationships. He talked about how embarrassed he is for "white-haired, shiny-headed old men walking down the street with tall, leggy, flat-stomached yws" And that they should "get a room." I was livid. I actually wrote in to the show to tell them that ignorant attitudes like that are actually getting in the way of people's productive and healthy age-gap relationships. We're all sexy YWs who have amazing OMs!"

Dr. Phil should be on my list of folks I'm not overly fond of I guess.

yes we can punish them but the laws restrict even what a parent can do. for example when my daughter went to see a counselor contracted by the school I not only wasn't allowed to know what was happening to her, she was told by the counselor that only she could make decisions reguarding her sessions and not us. she ran around the house proclaiming she had the power. Fortunatly my daughter had enough respect for us that she let us guide her. how many kids don't? Also in Oregon (and many other states as well) if a teenager wants birth control they can go to the health department, have a physical exam done and have a perscription dispensed to them (14 year olds mind you) without the parents knowledge or approval. That same 14 year old can run away from home and the police (in California) cannot make them go home if they don't want to.

These things have happened to good families with good parents who have other kids who do great. all it takes is on impressionable teen who gets swayed by others and the law is against the parents yet we're still considered responsible for the teens actions.

Blaming the parents is many times acurate but is a convienent scape goat for troubled children. usually the blame comes from parents and adults who have been fortunate that their children hasn't had many of these issues. some things are just out of our control which is why we need to be vigilant, understanding and NON JUDGEMENTAL toward the kids and other parents.

Code. 100% agreement

biting my tongue here. I have a unique perspective on all of this. I spent a few years seeing what happens when people go the wrong way. I've watched some of my daughters friends go bad. If I had answers I'd be a wealthy man.

I need a drink

Out of all of the MySpace profiles of people at my school, NONE of them are in any way sexual.

Hell, if they can't get pictures of their girls online, they can get photographs or even see each other naked when they aren't being supervised.

Anyway, anybody 13+ that is posting their name, location, picture, etc. online is just asking for trouble. They earned that stalker.

Why would a parent let their kid have a cell phone with a camera in it? Some people would have flat brain waves if you gave them an eeg.

"kids who SHOULD know better."

Kids should know better. But if you don't beat sense into them before they turn into a bratty 13 year old, then they do stuff like this. Kids don't automatically know what's smart/stupid. It usually depends on how well their parents can distinguish the two. For instance: buying your daughter a cellphone with a camera in it was stupid. Look, she passed on her common sense to her daughter. Now it's up to people like us to smack them both.

The key to that is the term "smacking" it's impossible to get any human being to conform by smacking them into submission.
Kids should know better but ALL kids are curious and do stupid things reguardless of their upbringing. I had great parents, my father was a strong disiplinarian (I know, spelling is bad) my sister conformed beautifully, never smoked did what she was told, got married like a good girl. I on the other hand partied, smoked pot and drank (all after I got the freedom of leaving home at 1. Giving them cell phones doesn't cause it. sometimes it's just out of the parents control. it does happen.

The thing that irritates me the most is when I talk to some self rightous parent who has one of those stepford kids and I mention some of the teenage problems my kids have that they never experienced and I get a stupid remark like "well if they were my kid I wouldn't have that problem." Or "you've just got to get tough and put your foot down." as if Life was so simple.

I took time to peruse various "spaces" on some of those blogs. If they just didn't reveal identifying information, most are fairly acceptable. . . with only an occasional seductive phrase such as one where the girl seemed proud of thrilling her boyfriend having viewed her by phone video in "lip-gloss and longerie", to name one racy example.

"longerie" = lingerie

(BTW, I doubt we'll ever get that edit button we used to talk about.)