posted by: pinemikey
link at:http://news.ft.com/cms/s/3d9b6fee-892d-11d9-b7ed-00000e2511c8,ft_acl=,s01=2.htm

Top music labels try to raise prices for downloads
>By Scott Morrison in San Francisco and Tim Burt in London
>Published: February 28 2005 02:00 | Last updated: February 28 2005 02:00
>>

Some leading music labels are in talks with online retailers to raise wholesale prices for digital music downloads in an attempt to capitalise on burgeoning demand for legal online music.

The moves, which suggest the labels want a bigger slice of the fledgling market's spoils, has angered Steve Jobs, the Apple Computer chief executive behind the iTunes online music store.

But music executives expressed caution about their ability to push through unilateral price increases. Among the biggest groups, Universal Music and Sony BMG are known to be particularly reluctant to disrupt the market for downloads.

One top label said it would not raise wholesale prices now because the market was not yet mature enough for an increase. The three other music labels - which also include EMI and Warner - refused to comment.

Analysts, meanwhile, are warning that price rises could exacerbate internet piracy, which is thought to cost the industry about $2.4bn (£1.2bn) a year.

Music industry executives said introductory wholesale prices for digital tracks had been set low to stimulate demand, but Apple's success had prompted concern that they may now be too low.

The effort suggests several labels believe demand for online music is robust enough to withstand higher prices, despite the fact that online sales are estimated to account for about 2 per cent of total music sales.

Michael McGuire, analyst at Gartner, said the move could backfire because consumers who buy music over the internet are accustomed to paying 99 cents or less for downloads.

Wholesale prices are thought to be about 65 cents. "It seems to me to be singularly bad timing," he said, adding that an increase could send fans back to underground services where they could get illegal music tracks free.

[Are any of these guys even basically educated in business?]

Figured this was coming, made mention of it a long time back. The idea that the 99¢ wasn't locked in stone and the ever hungry corporations would be sniffing at the door for more profit. These folks think they got the world by the horns and you gotta pay. lols.

They have basically said, "You are put on notice that we will be raising the prices." For those that visit such sites, get them now, while cheap. At some point you will have to buy them again. Dang shame they didn't go ahead and jack the prices up. The resulting nose dive could have been blamed on p2p some how, I am sure.

...and when is it they are going to try to charge for the DRM? I mean you getting it for free now, uh? One of those products you just gotta have and can't live without. One of those added on value enhancers.

HAHA.. they said it was set LOW to stimulate demand!

forgive me while i spend the next day and a half trying to catch my breath through the laughter.

let's see.. a full quality cd can be bought by a savvy shopper for $15... a crappy 128k compressed file now costs $10... and they say that's LOW?

rofl.. and i thought their announcement of increases in lockdown cd releases because they report "widespread consumer acceptance" was proof of their delusions.

I'm sorry.. but senility is sad.. even in your worst enemies..

This will just drive more people to Usenet, IRC, and newer secure p2p networks.

"But music executives expressed caution about their ability to push through unilateral price increases. Among the biggest groups, Universal Music and Sony BMG are known to be particularly reluctant to disrupt the market for downloads.

"One top label said it would not raise wholesale prices now because the market was not yet mature enough for an increase. The three other music labels - which also include EMI and Warner - refused to comment."

Let's see, Universal and Sony/BMG are "reluctant to disrupt the market," while EMI and Warner refuse to comment.

So just exactly who are the "music industry executives" saying digital prices are too low?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"online sales are estimated to account for about 2 per cent of total music sales."

Gee that's robust enough to merit an increase in prices! NOT.

"Analysts, meanwhile, are warning that price rises could exacerbate internet piracy, which is thought to cost the industry about $2.4bn (£1.2bn) a year."

Gee, sounds to me like a price increase is JUST what they need! What a better way to compete with free than by raising your prices, suing your customers, and pissing them off with DRM. Good job RIAA labels!

silly butts I guess they will never learn

"let's see.. a full quality cd can be bought by a savvy shopper for $15"

Fifteen dollars? Are you high or just stupid? You can get new releases for 10-12 bucks and classic catalog stuff for 8-10 bucks or even 6-8 bucks when there are good sales.

99 cent MP3single with two songs. Just like the old days. same as it ever was. Non- DRM too.

Lesterchambers.dmusic.com/raymiles

mroop: i was referring to places where you Dont have to sift through a large disorganized pile of cd's simply dumped in the middle of a salesfloor like some legos a kid forgot to pick up.

hahahaha..

Wait Wait Wait... Now I'm getting all F'd up in the head again...

The record companies are complaining that they are hemmoraging money due to online sales, HOWEVER, it seems that online music is so popular that they are charging to little for it.

Excuse me, but get your F#*%ing story straight before you come to us and invent more bullshit.

By the way, $10 for a download is too much to pay whan you dont even own the fricking servers that house the music, don't have to promote it on the service, or have to produce or transfer the actual files.

You F your artists and you F your customers. You Suck and no one wants your crap.

Whew, I feel a lot better... Guess I was pissed off today.

FREE MICKEY -- FREE MICKEY

Sorry I am F'd in the head... I meant Online Piracy

mroop is right! You can buy brand new releases online for $8 to $12 - just look for the independent online shops by genre, and you will find a winner, usually with free shipping & no tax! I buy heavy metal from several such vendors, and brand new releases are rarely over $12. Plus the down(fraud)load services do not and would not touch the type of independent music I buy.

The RIAA jokers just never cease to amaze.

"But music executives expressed caution about their ability to push through unilateral price increases."

right there, an admission of price fixing. HEY justice department, you out there??

Compmore hit the nail on the head!!!!! Wheres the DOJ when you need them!!!! oh yea chasing down all the theiving pirates on p2p but letting the suits get away with PRICE FIXING!!!!!! Who are the real theives!!!! And people wonder WHY we Boycott the RIAA!!!!

NO BRAINER!!!!

The EC investigates record companies for differential pricing with respect to iTunes - their response - let's raise prices for MP3 doenloads. This is just inviting a world wide anti trust investigation! Bring it on ... watch them squirm!

"One top label said it would not raise wholesale prices now because the market was not yet mature enough for an increase. "

So when it is mature enough you shaft your loyal customer base?

FUCK YOU GREEDY ASSHOLES!

Give it up compmore. The Justice Department don't give a rats ass about whether or not the hard working people of this country are getting SCREWED by price fixing. Why? Because they get NOTHING out of it, that's why. Now get the RIAA to request help in stopping copyright infringement (most likely with the aid of a few dollar bills), then you'll get them off their butts!

"Fifteen dollars? Are you high or just stupid? You can get new releases for 10-12 bucks and classic catalog stuff for 8-10 bucks or even 6-8 bucks when there are good sales."

Maybe they ARE cheaper in Canada Mroop. MOST of us in the US are be asked for 15 or more for new.
We're only stupid if we pay that much for their crap.

karotechia wrote:

Date: February 28, 2005 @ 6:54 PM
mroop is right! You can buy brand new releases online for $8 to $12 - just look for the independent online shops by genre, and you will find a winner, usually with free shipping & no tax! I buy heavy metal from several such vendors, and brand new releases are rarely over $12. Plus the down(fraud)load services do not and would not touch the type of independent music I buy.

---
Would you mind providing some of the urls that you use? I'm always interested in hunting sources of music for purchase.

I am even more interested in researching the acts at those URL's

"mroop: i was referring to places where you Dont have to sift through a large disorganized pile of cd's simply dumped in the middle of a salesfloor like some legos a kid forgot to pick up."

Hey idiot: Does this look like a place with cd's piled on the floor?

http://www.deepdiscountcd.com/

17 of the Top 25 new releases are 12.97 or less plus free shipping and no tax. And that's just one online store.

There are physical locations in my area - independent stores - that have cheap new releases and super cheap catalog title - we're talking 3 for 20 bucks and even cheaper when the sales are on.

"Maybe they ARE cheaper in Canada Mroop. MOST of us in the US are be asked for 15 or more for new."

I'm in New Jersey. I don't go to the mall and get ripped off for 15-20 bucks a cd and then bitch about it because I was stupid enough to shop there. Unlike awehr.

"mroop is right! You can buy brand new releases online for $8 to $12 - just look for the independent online shops by genre, and you will find a winner, usually with free shipping & no tax!"

Agreed. I was talking about major label stuff, but the indie stuff is even less expensive.

Btw, where are these stores that awehr mentions with large piles of cd's dumped in the middle of the salesfloor? I've never heard of such a thing.

$15? Not on your life.

try www.deepdiscountcd.com. They don't even charge for shipping. The most expensive newer release I could find that I had any interest in buying was $13.95. I bought two CDs from them last year at $10 and $12.50 respectively -- newer releases. A few catalog items may be more, but most are less.

I don't have any financial interest in that site. They aren't very speedy on shipping. But they deliver the goods.

Funny,
Didn't Realize New Jersey was so close to Vancouver.

Besides,
No matter how "cheap" RIAA crap gets,
it's still not worth it.
If RIAA gets a dime, It won't be one of mine.

EC investigates iTunes
p2pnet.net News:- Recently, Which? (the UK Consumers' Association that was) asked why people in Britain pay more than others in France and Germany for the already over-priced Apple iTunes tracks - that’s to say 79p (about $1.42, or 120 euro cents) against 99 euro cents (68p, about $1.22) in France and Germany.


Now, the European Commission (EC) has confirmed it’s looking into allegations that Apple's iTunes discriminates against UK consumers, says Reuters, quoting a spokesman for the EU executive.


The over-pricing charge was originally referred to Britain's Office of Fair Trading (OFT), which passed it to the European Commission.

This meant Which? lost its formal role as a complainant and the rights that go with that, says Reuters, adding that the group's complaint is being re-filed directly with the commission..

Jobs don't like it:
--
p2pnet.net News:- Apple boss Steve Jobs is apparently brassed off because some record labels are talking to online retailers about raising wholesale prices for digital music downloads to capitalise on the "burgeoning demand for legal online music," says Britain’s Financial Times.

If the Big Music cartel decides to hike its already exorbitant rates, the corporate music sites will be told, not asked, about it.

Wholesale prices are currently thought to be about 65 cents and Gartner analyst Michael McGuire is quoted as saying the move could backfire because consumers who buy music online are used to paying 99 cents or less for downloads.

In the real world of online music, the only thing that’s burgeoning is the music industry’s venality and as a direct result, hardly any of the hundreds of millions of files that move around the Net every week are sold from the corporate music sites.

iTunes is about the only site doing any business, and even it is barely breaking even – which is OK since the ‘store’ is no more than a front for Apple’s iPod.

“Less” could easily apply to the vast majority of online music lovers who aren’t, in fact, paying anything because the cartel has yet to come up with fair pricing for mp3s so its clients can market cartel ‘product’ for amounts which might tempt p2p users.

Be all of the above as it may, “The move, which suggest the labels want a bigger slice of the fledgling market's spoils, has angered Steve Jobs,” says the Times.

Apple is at the moment under scrutiny for over-charging for its downloads in the UK.

Source

The labels would like the price of downloads to be just a little higher than that of CDs, otherwise they may lost customers in the (currently more profitable) CD business.

Here are all the posts from the other thread (now deleted) on this exact same subject:
----

gdZiemann
Date: February 28, 2005 @ 3:34 PM
"But music executives expressed caution about their ability to push through unilateral price increases. Among the biggest groups, Universal Music and Sony BMG are known to be particularly reluctant to disrupt the market for downloads.

"One top label said it would not raise wholesale prices now because the market was not yet mature enough for an increase. The three other music labels - which also include EMI and Warner - refused to comment."

Let's see, Universal and Sony/BMG are "reluctant to disrupt the market," while EMI and Warner refuse to comment.

So just exactly who are the "music industry executives" saying digital prices are too low?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wet1
Date: February 28, 2005 @ 4:46 PM
Sounds to me like the lack of identifing is just their method of testing the waters to see how it is going to float. Make no mistake, it is coming, this raising the prices. Wonder how Napster is going to fair, just coming out and all.

Man, whatta deal! Get your own drm files now while the prices are down. Ya right *snickers*. Could I have fries and a coke on that too?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

stilltrying
Date: February 28, 2005 @ 11:25 PM
These guys are some real TOOLS !!!!

Economics 101: Low prices = higher demand and more sales. Walmart figured this out a long long time ago.

"but Apple's success had prompted concern that they may now be too low."

iTunes is a business model that has proven to be successful. It works because pricing is "too low". But hey, if the major recording labels want to kick the sleeping dog, then let them. Of course, they'll probably have a hard time figuring out why it choses to get up and bite them in the ass...

That economic princible doesn't apply when prices are centrally set - by label wholesale. If wallmart raised its prices, customers would go to other stores. If napster, itunes and all other major-label legal music services raised their prices simutainously... where would the customers go? If they wanted p2p, they would be using it already.

Oh well, affects me not one bit, actually makes me happy. Maybe with their overzealous price gouging they'll kill the downloan market in it's childhood and they'll have to throw out the whole DRM infested scheme. And people will flock to indie musicians and their free tracks and remember when folks used to buy CD's and actually own their purchases.

Oh well, one can dream.

It's just what the RIAA wants to do.

They are pigs, they are communists, and they don't care about our culture.

Also I have heard on the news that Universial is copy protecting the disks. What's worse, they are introducing play-protected CDs. Not only they are copy protected, but they are adding technology that only allows consumers to play the CDs up to 20 times. After that, the CD is dead and he'she needs to buy another CD. And on top of that, you need to register the CD in order to activate the 20-time-use CD. So, the days of buying the license of music will soon come to an end. Perhaps that Universial is trying to make it illegal to transfer license and even buy the license to play the music forever.

There you go. One less customer, and that's me. What's next? you can't purchase music online anymore. The RIAA is supposed to give us fun, not frusteration. Now, I think that the RIAA is illegally downloading music...that is, Music Playback Prevention tracks. Should we sue the RIAA now?