posted by pinemikey
Link at: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-5548781.html?tag=zdfd.newsfeed

Solicitor General, conservatives back Hollywood
By John Borland CNET News.com January 24, 2005, 7:30 PM PT


The Bush administration's top lawyer and the Christian Coalition threw their weight behind the entertainment industry Monday in a closely watched Supreme Court fight over file swapping.

Monday was the deadline for the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) and their supporters to file their arguments with the nation's top court, in their efforts to reverse previous rulings that imposed only minimal legal restrictions on peer-to-peer software companies.

The entertainment companies have argued strongly in lower courts that Grokster and other file-swapping software companies should be held liable for the widespread copyright infringement of their users. In a lengthy brief, the U.S. Solicitor General's office agreed.

"While P2P technology unquestionably can be employed for a variety of legitimate purposes without giving rise to rampant copyright infringement, the record...suggests that (the file-swapping software companies) have built their particular P2P networks around the 'draw' of massive copyright infringement," the Solicitor General's brief read. They "cannot evade liability...merely by pointing to other, legitimate, uses of the technology."

The briefs filed by the record industry and movie studios were not immediately available Monday evening. The two trade organizations were scheduled to have a press conference early Tuesday to explain their strategy. File-swapping software companies Grokster and StreamCast Networks and their allies have until the end of February to respond.

Although focused on the issue of file swapping, the Supreme Court case is likely to be one of the most widely watched legal tussles in the technology world this year. Attorneys say the outcome of the case could affect virtually every consumer electronics or computer manufacturer, as well as software and entertainment companies.

At the case's heart is the 20-year-old Supreme Court ruling that made Sony videocassette recorders legal to sell. That decision said that technology that could be used for illegal purposes could still be legal to sell, as long as it had substantial commercial non-infringing uses.

The RIAA and MPAA say they're not trying to overturn that doctrine. But their attorneys have argued that because Grokster and Morpheus parent StreamCast Networks are aware of widespread copyright infringement on their networks, the companies should be held legally liable for that activity.

Two lower courts disagreed, saying that the file-swapping software companies did not have direct control over individual users' actions, or direct knowledge of individual trades.

A handful of diverse organizations joined the entertainment companies in filing with the Supreme Court on Monday, making for some strange bedfellows.

In addition to the Solicitor General's office, a group of conservative, family and Christian organizations that are often deeply critical of Hollywood and record label releases joined the chorus against file swapping.

Those groups, which included the Christian Coalition, the Concerned Women for America, Morality in Media and others, wrote that the lower court decisions relieving file-swapping companies of legal liability could lead to a "proliferation of anonymous, decentralized, unfiltered, and untraceable peer-to-peer networks that facilitate crimes against children and that frustrate law enforcement efforts to detect and investigate these crimes."

The Business Software Alliance, the Progress and Freedom Foundation, and a group of law professors also supported the RIAA and MPAA in their arguments.

A separate group of "neutral" parties also filed arguments on various issues surrounding the case.

U.S. Sens. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt, and Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, took issue with the file-swapping companies' attorneys characterization of Congress' role in the recent copyright debates.

A larger group of Internet companies (including News.com parent CNET Networks) wrote that it did not approve of copyright infringement on the file-swapping networks but asked the court to retain the Sony decision since it had led to considerable technological innovation over the years.

[Typical of the Christian Colalition et al...we hate hollywood so much we will support it against it's apparent demise at the hand of file swappers. ]

I guess this means that the Moral majority doesn't believe the economic gloom and doom figures from the RIAA or the MPAA either.

oh wait, I forgot...moral majority = control of every facet of your life. At least the RIAA just wants us to buy stuff, the other bunch of wingnuts wants to control your soul. Uh-oh, I think I got a new slogan for the Moral majority..

We Want to Control Your Soul

I'm beginning to think that the Christian Coalition and the Family Values Committee (or whatever it's called) is a front, paid for by the entertainment companies.

After TowelGate, "Desperate Housewives" has become the most popular series in both the US and the UK. I'd bet the Family Guy's rating improved after last week's story about the pixellated butt. The FCC has done more for Howard Stern's career than Howard.

There's nothing that will make people flock to something more quickly than religious condemnation.

The lower courts applied the ruling in the Grokster case, noting that file-swapping programs can be used for legal purposes, such as distributing a file with the permission of its author.

"The evidence suggests that the respondents have developed vast networks of members whose only common characteristic is apparently their desire to download copyrighted music and movie files without paying for them," Clement wrote in the 30-page brief, a filing expressing the government's opinion. The government is not a party in the case.

Above from the Washington Post.

In other words, the government does not give a flying fuck about independents.

"In addition to the Solicitor General's office, a group of conservative, family and Christian organizations that are often deeply critical of Hollywood and record label releases joined the chorus against file swapping"

This actually doesn't surprize me as we know there is a ton of filthy riaa garbage lyrics on the file sharing networks, so I can see where they are coming from.

This is not so much in support of the movie nor the record industry, as it is their way of fighting against the garbage on the streets so to speak.

In other words, the government does not give a flying fuck about independents.

I doupt the government officials even consider them - if they are aware of them at all.

Strangely, and I may be completely wrong about this, but I always associate their arguments with gun crimes. We all know that there are very substantial gun crime shooting each year. LA bank shootout, worst shootout ever. And the manufacturer and our "beloved" governments knows it. Shouldn't they try to shut down them too?

Thats just how I always view their tactics. And it may just be me.

There are a whole swack of things in this world that we just don't know what to do with/about... laws flailing this way or that, guns, drugs, abortion, liquor, murderers, and now filesharing I guess.

"I doubt the government officials even consider [the independents] - if they are aware of them at all."

Speaking only for myself, I have written every US Senator, the prez, the vice prez, a number of US representatives and the Supreme Court.

They're aware of us, they have chosen not to care.

"This actually doesn't surprize me as we know there is a ton of filthy riaa garbage lyrics on the file sharing networks, so I can see where they are coming from."

Huh? We're going to protect the world from the "filthy riaa garbage lyrics" by making sure the RIAA remains the only game in town?

If that's the logic, just shoot me now.

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Those groups, which included the Christian Coalition, the Concerned Women for America, Morality in Media and others, wrote that the lower court decisions relieving file-swapping companies of legal liability could lead to a "proliferation of anonymous, decentralized, unfiltered, and untraceable peer-to-peer networks that facilitate crimes against children and that frustrate law enforcement efforts to detect and investigate these crimes."
--------------------------------

And Supreme Court holding those companies liable will for sure lead to "proliferation of anonymous, decentralized, unfiltered, and untraceable peer-to-peer networks that" some think "facilitate crimes against children and that frustrate law enforcement efforts to detect and investigate these" so called "crimes."

gdZiemann

Nobody said anything about logic here... I just said I can see where they are coming from.. if they could get rid of the filthy movies and music these organizations bring, they'd do that too.

Right now this is the only lawsuit in town, so they are taking advantage of that, thats all. As far as I'm concerned it's like trying to throw the baby out with the bath water, but that's life in general.

Keep us polluted, Don't keep us polluted... fuckit.... no point getting sense of of the jeezuz crew

I'm getting sick and tired of briefs comming from people who dont have a damned clue about computers, the internet, technology, filesharing, or copyright.

If you dont know shit.. stay out of it.

"Nobody said anything about logic here... I just said I can see where they are coming from.. if they could get rid of the filthy movies and music these organizations bring, they'd do that too."

By making sure that the "filthy music and movies" are the only ones out there? There certainly is no logic and if you can see where they're coming from, you're sitting somewhere with a unique view.

To me, this is like fighting prostitution by decreeing that hookers are the only females allowed to have sex. Or defeating drug use by making the Mafia the only legal supplier.

Dancing madly backwards.

Some of this news IS puzzling. I'm trying to process it from several perspectives and hope to weigh back in when I get finished.
In the meantime, you folks around here are doing a good job touching on various different facets.
(I continue being impressed with the knowledge base and analytical skills of most of the members here.)

I'm looking at it from a Christian viewpoint. Lets see, how can I explain this without using up mega space. To me I see it very clearly and understand it totally..doesn't mean I agree with how they are going about it.

Christians don't like the "smutty' music and movies that are in the world..they find them degrading,demoralizing, offensive, and totally unappropriate for young eyes and ears.

The "renegade" p2p outfits like kazaa have easy access for kids to get a hold of this stuff. The Christian Coalition would like to see an end to that. They are simply using this lawsuit as a means to an end (in their eyes). The news media on the other hand has them going to bed together. (The Christian coalition and the riaa, etc.) Couldn't be further from the truth...

I think one thing the Christian Coalition may be missing is having checked out the record industry's own online services. Are they providing radio edits of this music, or are they selling the music "as is written" Make note to self.. check that out...

"Christians don't like the "smutty' music and movies that are in the world..they find them degrading,demoralizing, offensive, and totally unappropriate for young eyes and ears."

Hmmm...Christians like Jimmy "I have Sineed" Swaggart, found trying to pick up prostitutes, or Jim "God Needs Your Money, Lemme Hold it For Him" Bakker, etc...?????

CodeWarrior No, Christians like me.

I'm thinking that the Christian groups are in it becasue they are two steps behind the hype...

If we look back to the beginning of the noise on this thing, the big claim was that p2p networks were primarily traffiking in porn. If memory serves, Hollings was the first followed by Hatch and Smith to get on the soap box. They even had a study done, which was their mistake because it disproved the claim.

I'm betting the Christian groups here remember the claim but not the outcome....After all, the results never exactly made it to the head of the news reel. This would explain their stance an, as pointed out already this is the only game in town right now.

The RIAA/MPAA knew the right buttons to push at the Christian Coalition, plain and simple. The Christian Coalition is being played like a fiddle by the alphabet soup lobby's distortions and lies. It is all very sad really.

These are the same nut jobs that brought us nipplegate from the superbowl.

While they may not have all sent the emails, you can bet they were in the howl about it.

Button pushing is right. This is a case, as George has said of being the only lawsuit in town and many have said before that politics make strange bedfellows. Been a long time since I have seen stranger ones.

Under most circumstances, these folks listed here as an alphabet of acronyms, would be up in arms with Hollywood, their favorite dragon to slay. At this time it seems to be the lesser of the two evils. Seems is the correct phrase and the Hollywood mogols will go right on continuing to ignore these nutjobs right after the support is no longer needed.

Why can'e we file a brief get all the sites together downhillbattle Dmusic all of the sites that are on our side independent musicians sites, academic sites if we all joined together think we may get a word in?

Not to be a downer but have you ever Imagined if ALL P2p's were shut down and all filesharing stopped if the 60 million or so filesharer's would finaly WAKE THE HELL UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because we're like the Democratic party--all splintered. EFF and Downhill both have slightly different agendas. Downhill believes all filesharing should be legal--copyrighted or not. EFF believes copyright must be preserved--but with fewer restrictions than the RIAA wants. Remember one of the founding members of EFF is from ... I think it is the Grateful Dead, but somebody will correct me if I'm wrong about that. Boycott is about fair play -- for all musicians. That means a limited copyright when the ARTIST controls it, not the company. Does that about cover that? Or did I forget something?

As for picking on pepe--Parents decide for kids. If you don't know what your kids are doing, you may be in for a big surprise. And before I was converted to Boycott-RIAA, I ... well, "visited" Kazaa once in a while, okay? Maybe if you go looking for porn, you find it. But they have a family filter that is SO GOOD--it filtered out the group The Hooters. Not that I go there anymore.
This is a matter of respect, as I see it. If pepe doesn't want to see it, she shouldn't have to. But you have to respect other people's right to see it if they want to. I've been watching the Senate all day. Now that's scandalous!!!

The first part of my reply was for nitedreamerxp--it just took me too long to type it!!

You know, pepe might just be onto something, though. If Apple is selling all that stuff online unedited....to unsuspecting underage children...without a parental warning...aren't they guilt of something, too? I don't have and won't have an ipod thingamajig, but somebody who does have one should let us all know the truth. Hatch and Leahy will be interested to know, too, I'm sure.

Guilt? It's way past my bedtime, sorry. Guilty as charged of not proofreading.

"Why can't we file a brief get all the sites together downhillbattle Dmusic all of the sites that are on our side independent musicians sites, academic sites if we all joined together think we may get a word in?"

Normal people cannot communicate to the Supreme Court in a brief. It must be done by a lawyer.

As for the "filthy" RIAA music...
The thing about p2p is that you kind of have to know what you're looking for in order to find it. If your kids are listening to it, it's because the RIAA reaches them better than you do.

If you think that shutting down P2P will change anything in this regard, you are a fool. All it does is give the bad guys MORE power by eliminating everything else.

We do not burn the library down because there's a book in there somewhere that we don't approve of.

These so-called "conservatives" that back this retrograde agenda aren't really conservative at all -- they're radical ideologues who couldn't care less about the extent to which such agenda is detrimental to the overall future development of society, and their coupling with demagogues who use "the children" to further their own fascistic, anti-technology agenda makes it that much more dangerous. And yes, we are very much seeing a repeat of the circumstances similar to those that surrounded the 1954 witch-hunt that virtually decimated the U.S. comic-book industry. Raise your hand if you remember the name Dr. Fredric Wertham . . .

This post has NOT been approved by the comic books code authority.

ShadowMom

I totally understand what you are saying about the kids. You sound like a great mom, who cares about what your kids are into, but, and there is always a but...little Martha two blocks down the road, gets to have all the kids come to her house cause her parents aren't there, or does't care half of the time about what her and her friends are into...

I've got two grown children, a son and a daughter raised in our Christian home. I was a stay at home, take care of the kids wife and mother. We sit around now and we "joke" about some of the things they got into that my husband and I were totally oblivious to at the time.

It's totally amazing what we as parents think we know is going on, compared to that which is really going on. We think we're in control, but for the most part, it's our kids peer group that have the control. We just try to find a bit of a balance that they can live with.

gdZiemann

I hate to say this, but the riaa DOES reach your kids better than you do.... they have the music, and music is powerful stuff for kids... have you listened to the rap crap out there? Actually seen whats on the P2P neworks? If you're thinking Eminem, forget it..he's a pussycat compared to some of this junk.

These moral groups just want their values to be the dominant one. But they want it done with the government being the parents. An easy way to get things done. Pass a law, and thats it. No more worries.

pepe -- So how does removing their competition change anything? Wouldn't it make more sense to oppose the ones responsible than support them?

"Actually seen whats on the P2P neworks?" No. There's no way to filter out the RIAA.

Never heard an Eminem "song." Although I do post my own music on p2p occasionally.

Seen the Internet? Go to Google, turn off safe search, and look for images of "mom".

Seen HBO? Chris Rock? Robin Williams? George Carlin?

The Christian Coalition seems to me to be a bunch of misguided zealots causing more harm than good because they don't have the common sense to see that they have chosen to sell apples for Serpents R Us.

So how does removing their competition change anything? Wouldn't it make more sense to oppose the ones responsible than support them?

They try that too, opposing those responsible... it's just a matter of fighting the fight on as many levels as possible. p2p is just another level. This lawsuit is just a stepping stone to that level.

I'm sure your joking about your never hearing an Eminem song.. right?

OK, so I went to google images and typed in mom, all I got were pictures of little old white haired ladies and some happy pregnant women...what was suppose to come up???

Another point of disclosure: Christian Coalitian frontpiece Pat Robertson's Family Channel is now part of the Disney / ABC octopus -- er, empire. Might it be this symbiosis that explains part of these reactionary "flat-earthers'" putting their nose up the Hollywood idiots' tuchises?

And as Michael Savage has so eloquently pointed out on his radio show, it is in many respects the very "Hollywood idiots" that support this latest manifestation of anti-technology bigotry, who are transmitting "pornography" into our homes, from the Janet Jackson Super Bowl halftime flapdoodle to the anti-family, anti-suburban, thoroughly sleazy "Desperate Housewives" and every other envelope pusher in between. I'm not necessarily for censorship (after all, I do admire Carlin, Rock, and Lewis Black for some of the points they raise about the overall hypocrisy of our society), but at the same time I do understand on some level where those criticizing the Hollywood cesspool are coming from.

"While P2P technology unquestionably can be employed for a variety of legitimate purposes without giving rise to rampant copyright infringement, the record...suggests that (the file-swapping software companies) have built their particular P2P networks around the 'draw' of massive copyright infringement," the Solicitor General's brief read. They "cannot evade liability...merely by pointing to other, legitimate, uses of the technology."

WHat the hell is this ! Oh but is ok for SONY to sell DVD, cd burners, mp3 players. They have Legal and Illegal uses. They knew people would buy their products for the purpose of listening and viewing this "Illegal Meterial". These companies have taken advantage of us...........greedy bastards.

You do realize that the christian coalition is fighting P2P because of the easy access to porn, and child porn? I personally am FOR anything that hurts the riaa and mpaa at any cost, but the coalition could care less about the riaa or mpaa content.

I'm not surprised. They're all really united behind one banner. They're for limiting innovation and freedom of expression in our society. They want to preserve the status quo that they've written, or go back to a prior status quo that they did write.

Remember the days before pornography was widespread? The Christian Coalition would probably be willing to shut down the Internet if it meant an end to pornography. That's how far they're willing to go. Never mind innovation.

This is why I am politcally engaged in fighting these kind of people.

:-:~ Phantom
www.nwprogressive.org/weblog

I have to agree with Green Spleen on that. Although it is for different reasons, the CC is taking the same side of an issue as Dr. Dre, Metallica, and Madonna. As I Christian, I don't think billion dollar corporation suing hardworking people and students is very Christian like.