As we are supposedly a nation turning more conservative, I found an interesting website by accident today, and in our effort to keep our readers being the hippest and most "with it" folks out there, I thought I would bring you a website called "Virginityrules.com"
http://www.virginityrules.com.

The site has a discussion board,
http://www.virginityrules.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi

I thought, to show a sample of what the kids these days are saying about abstinence...
I would clip a few messages on their board...
"Bob adob Guest
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Re: On Alan's 45s videos
« Reply #1 on: Sep 6th, 2004, 2:35am » Quote | Modify | Remove

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Virginity is so cool. Just wait for Prince Charmings
John Ryan Fennell
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Re: On Alan's 45s videos
« Reply #2 on: Nov 29th, 2004, 7:18am » Quote | Modify | Remove

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God says save sex until marriage so im gonna!!!!!!!!
bob bob bond
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Re: On Alan's 45s videos
« Reply #3 on: Dec 4th, 2004, 1:07pm » Quote | Modify | Remove

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on Nov 29th, 2004, 7:18am, John Ryan Fennell wrote:God says save sex until marriage so im gonna!!!!!!!!

thats right alll the way "
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=====SNIP=========(and the last post I read was this one....)
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"I wanted to wait until marriage but made a huge mistake. Since then I have not touched alcohol (yes, unfortunately it dealt with alcohol). I'm now always the DD and make sure no one makes the same mistake I did. Hold on to your virginity as long as possible. Wait for the right person and don't make a mistake like I did. I still believe it was the biggest mistake I have ever made."
=========SNIP=============
Hmmmmmm....do tell!

Does virginity rule?
:)
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Links:
Other "cool" sites promoting a lifestyle without sex....
http://www.abstinence.net/
http://www.epigee.org/guide/abstain.html
http://www.chastitycall.org/
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Other links questioning the efficacy of celibacy :
http://www.scarleteen.com/sexuality/abstinence.html
http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12/02/abstinence.education.ap/
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And this site....which just confused the hell out of me...
http://www.totalabstinence.com/

So kids...Shake hands with the Booze Monster, and say goodbye to
Ms. Virginity....

BTW- Technically, if "virginity rules" were the guiding principle of a group of people....wouldn't that mean that in one generation their group would be gone?

I am 39 and still a virgin. Though not by choice.

How 50's can you get...Prince Charming?! Back to the good old days of guilt and dirty sex....screw it, code. Education and choice.

not by choice eh DeadMan?

I can't top that.

"Education and choice."

The choice of abstinence should be respected. That's an effective way to avoid sex-linked disease and unwanted pregnancy, plus saving oneself for that future mate is a decision that holds significance for some people. Virginity, therefore, is a choice deserving tolerance without belittling.

I've read the Bible. Sure is a lot of begetting going on....

Be fruitful and multiply is incompatible with total abstinence...but...I do advocate total abstinence from sexual intercourse for jerks..perhaps, if "jerkness" is an inherited trait, either dominant or recessive, if jerks do not procreate, and succor at the teat of abstinence, we may soon rid ourselves of them, and the world will shine brighter and laughter will be more abundant.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-bible-text/Mt-1.html
"Matthew chapter 1
King James Version
Bible software

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. "

So, if abstinence were practiced by Abraham,....

"So it goes." -Kurt Vonnegut....

I do believe that ALL people who think abstinence is cool, should abstain for life, from reproduction/sexual intercourse....

There's a little thing called survival of the fittest that comes into play then...and those who do not reproduce, don't pass on their genes, nor get to indoctrinate kids with nutty ideas.

Sex is groovy and wonderful. So is waiting until you are ready. (That means mature enough in both body AND mind...)

...of course, some folks are never gonna be ready for it, no matter how old they get

by the way, the most beautiful angel of all..his name is translated as "Light Bringer"....his name?...Lucifer...

Just because there is light...does not mean there is goodness.

I practice abstinence...but then again, I've been married for the past 13 years...

i feel ya on that Code...

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=37696
"Abstinence Pledges Usually Broken
Provided by Psychology Today

So-called "virginity pledges" don't seem to have much effect on whether or not people have sex before marriage, according to a study.

Angela Lipsitz, a psychology professor at Northern Kentucky University, and her colleagues surveyed 527 college students and found 16 percent had taken a pledge to abstain from sex before marriage. Of those, 61 percent broke the pledge the following year.

The study also found that some 50 percent of the students who said they'd kept their oath regularly engaged in oral sex. "They think that oral sex doesn't count," says Lipsitz, who presented the findings at the annual meeting of the American Psychological Society.

Although Lipsitz contends that virginity pledges are likely to delay sex, she also says that when young adults do decide to have intercourse, they are not prepared to do it safely. Students who vow not to have sex aren't likely to have any kind of birth control on hand when they change their mind. "

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-03-09-abstinence-study_x.htm
"Study: Abstinence pledges not reducing rates of STDs
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Teens who pledge to remain virgins until marriage have the same rates of sexually transmitted diseases as those who don't pledge abstinence, according to a study that examined the sex lives of 12,000 adolescents.
Those who make a public pledge to abstain until marriage delay sex, have fewer sex partners and get married earlier, according to the data, gathered from adolescents ages 12 to 18 who were questioned again six years later. But the two groups' STD rates were statistically similar. "

http://mentalhealth.about.com/b/a/071116.htm
"March 10, 2004
Teen Sexual Abstinence Pledges Don't Work
Adolescent sexual abstinence pledges are popular in some circles in the United States. A Columbia University study suggests that such pledges are rarely translated into behavior. 88% of the teens who had pledged abstinence actually had sex before they were married.

The researchers studied a nationally representative sample of approximately 15,000 youths ages 12 to 18. Teens who took such pledges were less likely to use condoms when they did have sex. The authors speculate that these teens had paid less attention to sex education."
======================SNIP====================
Hmmmmmmmmm.........do tell!

A) "Teens who took such pledges were less likely to use condoms when they did have sex."

Because they were too ashamed to buy condoms.

B) Is this the same Lipshitz that Stu and DeeDee Pickles get their advice from?

C) I hate to ask but... I expected to see virginity rules. You know, like instructions.

D) "practice" abstinence? Are there rehearsals? Shows? Finger exercises? Warm-ups?

I think I need instructions for this, too!

Perhaps they should change the name of the site to "Virginity Rules (Before Marriage)".

I'm proud of the fact that I will be able to say I waited until I was married.

Education is important, but if the point (regardless of the topic) is overly-encouraged, after hearing the same thing over and over again, the person will take the opposite of the desired action, particularly for teenagers. How many people have felt the urge to do something when someone (such as parents or teachers) told them not to do it?

Ahhh...Code.. shakin' that ole' tree again.. groovin' to ya, babe!! And gd How do you get to Carnegie Hall.. Practice!

Heavy petting rules.

Code, to summarize most of what you wrote:
Abstinence isn't for everyone, and without procreation God's purposes would not be fulfilled.
Abstinence or virginity pledges are usually not kept.

But even with less likelihood of success with the decision, the choice that a person makes regarding not to have sex before marriage still deserves to be tolerated . . . as a personal matter (as I said before).

"By the way, the most beautiful angel of all..his name is translated as "Light Bringer"....his name?...Lucifer...
Just because there is light...does not mean there is goodness. "

That's right. You have read God's Word; it advises us to
check sources for verification.

Did you see the news item about the higher birth rate in the red states? More begetting going on in the Bible Belt. Begetting is Biblical, you know, as Code points out. We're gonna procreate the blue staters into oblivion.

So, if you blue staters want to get your demographic house in order, you'd better "get busy," if you know what I mean. Abstinence shmabstinence.

"Heavy petting rules."

...I'm with ya on that carla (can I be with you on that?)

lol, hey autodidact... maybe if us "liberals" would all start being "pro-lifers" we could increase the birthrate among the progressives enough to win a few elections down the road.

lol

(sick and darkly twisted humor.)

What does God have to do with sex? Pat you on the bum... "a good one in there ol' chappa?"
I'm a virgin, and really I think its about how you feel about it. Personally I am happy that I'm not walking around with the herp or hiv. People say thats unfortunate to have an std... well "ya banged that dirty oe". If the person was raped "we'll catch that bastard someday." What does God do about it?

So really when I came in here to read about "Does Virginity Rule" I thought I'd hear people say yes or no and their reasons why? What does abstinence got to do with this either? Your job is so good you don't want it?

It doesn't rule, there is no ruling about it. "Heavy petting rules". Start a thread on "Does Sex Rule?" and see the wonderful things people will say to you.

*stressed*
I need to get laid.

we all do.

You know what doesn't rule? The Herp, HIV, and the clap. I haven't had any of these, but friends say they suck. As for waiting to have sex till marrage, that's fine by me. If you don't, that's fine by me. My friends used to joke me cause we would go to the club and I would go home alone and they would have a new woman. I just didn't want to waste my time with the wrong woman. However now I am married (I did have sex before though) and 2 of my friends have STDs, I say its up to the person, but all actions have consiquences.

Ps. The bible does say be fruitful and multiply, but it also says to wait till marrage for sex. So codewarrior, have lots of sex, just when your married. Hmm I wonder if I can tell my wife we have to have sex cause God told us to.

Screw the bible! This "virginity rules" thing is made up by people who don't get laid!

wow, so angry. Soloist, you really need to get some. Maybe then you won't be so hostile.

The Bible and spirituality aside, it's nice having peace of mind not having to worry about an STD or an unwanted pregnancy.
As the man said, actions have consequences.
I recall the lyrics to an obscure song by the Four Seasons from the late sixties, "Circles in the Sand", which refers to pleasures that lead to pain. Sex is one of those.

Does abstinence work? Well, yeah...if you practice it, you aren't going to get/get anyone pregnant and so on.

As for schools that are going abstinence-only...that's dumb. If they would read the proof, they'd know that an "abstinence is best, but if you're gonna do it, be safe" approach is the best way.

Code seems to imply that those in the Bible "begats" didn't practice abstinence. Of course they didn't. But they may have practiced it until marriage, the Bible doesn't say, does it? Most likely some did, some didn't.

The Bible DOES say that sex is for marriage. Those that practice abstinence UNTIL marriage shouldn't be belittled, because we DO live in a free country, and it is THEIR choice to do so. Those that practice abstinence until marriage DON'T get STD's and DON'T have unwanted pregnancies.

No, it's not for everyone, but don't cloud the Bibles message with "Begats". God stated to Adam and Eve "be fruitful, become many, fill the Earth and subdue it". How would that be possible without sex?? Yet, following God's advice about sex before marriage could end up protecting one, both physically and emotionally.

Soloist is partially right. Virginity Rules is more about belonging to a "tribe" than it is about sex.

I think all the bangin', humpin', lickin', suckin', fondlin', squeezin', pokin' I did when I was young was joyous. I wouldn't trade it for the world. If I had waited, I would have missed much of the greatest joy in life. Life is too short for petty abstinence. Wait until you're mature enough to do it safely, but no longer. Leave the bible totin' for the redstate evangelists.

Don't fight biology, you'll lose.

There is no more content person on this planet than one who is getting laid hard and often. There is no more false person than one who touts abstinence. They can pretend theyre happy with their decision, but the body never heeds the mind.
Instinct combined with biology turns them into hipocrits every time.

"There is no more false person than one who touts abstinence. They can pretend they're happy with their decision, but the body never heeds the mind."

A few people can successfully resist (having sex before marriage). My parents were such a case. But, maybe you're right in the sense of what you said about "those who tout abstinence"; maybe the touters don't ever succeed.
And, you may also be correct about those who pretend they're happy. Just like you, I doubt any are truly content with denying themselves (and claims to the contrary deserve skepticism).
HOWEVER, to repeat a point made previously: Those who want to try -- and thus be protected from STDs, pregnancy, etc. -- should be permitted tolerance without derision or discouragement.

INeedALover made quite a few good points.

The Bible says a lot of things.
It is a book written by men to control
the minds and actions of other men, and
subject to interpretation.

- puts on Kevlar suit -

I don't get it. I went to the site and didn't see anything about the bible (the discussion forums may be different of course) I also don't understand how we can support freedom of speech and expression to those who practice sex whenever and however they want (since it's natural let the good times roll) and not support the choices of those who want abstanance until marriage without sarcasticly ridiculing and criticizing them.

Actually I do understand it but won't go there.

I've read the Bible. Sure is a lot of begetting going on....


Yeah Code....now that you metion it.....I've noticed too that there was a lot of begetting going on and a lot of people begotten.......

that site has nothing to do with the bible. Christain fundimentalist right wingers are not the only ones who spout scripture to support their twisted views

Abstinenence is but self-torture. But I'm a virgin, still i got time. Abstinence only teaching doesnt work, the facts in that teaching are so messed up. Youi'll more than likely hear that condom can't protect from stds and so forth. Oh anyone hear aboutt he catholic church telling people that condoms had tiny holes in them that let in stds?

"The Bible DOES say that sex is for marriage."
Who married Adam and Eve? Did they get a blood test? Who were the witnesses? Is there a marriage license somewhere that predates paper?

"Salmon begat Booz"
I think vegetables begat Booze. Corn, barley, hops, potatoes.

Even Boones Farm didn't try salmon.

"Abstinenence is but self-torture."

mrnemo I personally have to agree however those who participate in it do it willingly so why should we criticize it? it does work for some.

The Creator married Adam and Eve. I thought you could come up with more intelligent questions than that gdziemann.

Okay; I'll play the game for awhile . . .

"Who married Adam and Eve?
(Is there a marriage license somewhere that predates paper?)"
God's initial arrangement didn't need a ceremony or a formal document; He Himself sanctified it.
"Did they get a blood test?"
Probably none needed if they were created perfectly, living in a paradise, and no one else existed to contaminate either of them.
"Who were the witnesses?"
None needed; God was in charge; He doesn't make mistakes, right?

Any more questions?

Hey, I recognized the intended humor, but I thought it would be fun to play along for awhile.

The first couple didn't have the need to be legitimized in the ways humans currently think of marriage. Abstitence or being a virgin isn't as impossible as you think - one simply chooses to focus on something other their smaller head.

For all the begatters, most of the parents were married before they had their kids. The story of showing who begat who is a way of showing a bloodline, to prove one's royal birth.

Finally, it makes common sense to avoid sexual encounters until you're married. The reasons are many: prevention of getting a STD, a stronger commitment between the two people that's not just built on sharing a night of pleasure, and IMO, it's a heck of a lot more fun to get that look of absolute satisfaction on her face that only happens when you know someone as more than just a person to have sex with.

Diogenes -- Sorry, I wasn't paying attention for a while.

"He doesn't make mistakes, right?"
Except maybe gays? Male fish spawning in the Potomac? Creating Satan?

Life is too short for this Q&A.

Oops, I did write if you had any more questions, so I deserve what I get!

BTW, still thinking about that first marriage, I can't help but wonder how it felt with no inlaws, no entertaining obligations, no outside conflicts, no extra-marital temptations . . .well, duh, it was paradise, wasn't it.

Not enough time right now to get to your other questions, but I'll be back.

Adam was an ape.

How about Adam and Lillith? ?
http://www.hranajanto.com/goddessgallery/lilith.html
"Male and female he created them," proclaims Genesis in its first version of humanity's creation. But the Bible later changes its mind, explaining the creation of woman as Jehovah's afterthought.

Jewish tradition outside the Bible understood the disparity: there was a female created simultaneously with Adam, and her name was Lilith. (There were variants: she was created before him; or after him, from the slime of the earth; or much later, as the twin of the evil Samael.)

When the first man suggested intercourse to the primal female, she enthusiastically agreed. Adam then instructed Lilith to lie down beneath him. Insulted, she refused, pointing out that they had been created equally and should mate so.

Lilith then went to Jehovah and tricked him into revealing his secret name, his name of power. (See Isis for a similar tale.) Once she had power over him, Lilith demanded that Jehovah give her wings; she then flew from Eden to the western deserts. There she happily had orgies with elemental spirits and sand demons, producing demon children by the score. (Here, too, there were variants of the story: perhaps Lilith was banished from Paradise; perhaps she was born with wings; maybe she flew off to the Land of Nod. Again, some say that Jehovah cursed her with sterility.)

Adam was provided with a new mate, but he and Eve fell from Jehovah's favor. As penance for his sin, Adam vowed to avoid the pleasures of marriage for a century. Then Lilith had her revenge. Each night she came to Adam and had intercourse with him (in her preferred positions, one assumes), capturing his emissions to form little demon babies. One of these, some say, was Samael the evil prince, whom Lilith then took as her playmate and companion."

the "OP ED" on Lilith
http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.showResource/CT/BQA/k/156
"Was Lilith Adam's First Wife?
There is no mention of anyone by the name of Lilith anywhere in the Bible. The book of Genesis records that the woman later named Eve was created the same day he was created (Genesis 1:26-2. God brought Eve to Adam, and they became husband and wife before sunset that very evening (Genesis 2:18-25). Eve got her name from the fact that she was the mother of all living (Genesis 3:20). No other individuals then existed."

and other links:
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/origin.html
Kabbala: Lilith's Origins

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlilith.html
"On the one hand there are all these (and likely other) interpretations. On the other hand there are the legends themselves, which are also quite varied, from Jewish folklore. Let's start with a paraphrase of the most familiar legend, which dates to medieval times, from the controversial work known as the Alphabet of Ben Sirah, including a few of our own interjections:


When God created Adam, he was lonely, so God created Lilith from the same dust from which Adam was molded. But they quarrelled; Adam [the proverbial domineering male] wished to rule over Lilith. But Lilith [a militant feminist] was also proud and willful, claiming equality with Adam because she was created from the same dust. She left Adam and fled the Garden. God sent three angels in pursuit of Lilith. They caught
her and ordered her to return to Adam. She refused, and said that she would henceforth weaken and kill little children, infants and babes. The angels overpowered her, and she promised that if the mother hung an amulet over the baby bearing the names of the three angels, she would stay away from that home. So they let her go, and God created Eve to be Adam's mate [created from Adam's rib, so that she couldn't claim equality]. And ever since, Lilith
flies around the world, howling her hatred of mankind through the night, and vowing vengeance because of the shabby treatment she had received from Adam. She is also called "The Howling One."
=SNIP==============
The "Howling One"? Did they know my second wife?

interesting how a simple article about a secular website designed to help young people has turned into a discussion on religion

First wives are allwayz a problem....

Before I comment on any comments, I must say this: Virginity does not rule. Those who wish to stay celibate until they're 45 are dangers to humanity.

I remember this one time this group of idiots called the "Power Team" came to my school and did all kinds of cool stuff like split wood with their bare hands and lift two 80 pound girls and twirl around. Then they became uncool and started preaching the whole "True Love Waits" BS that only the Devil could preach. After all, the Devil hates humanity and wants to see us destroyed. So what better way than brainwash kids into never having sex, therefore never having kids, thus reducing the population of the human race. Not me. Now, I'm not one to sleep around, I'll admit only three have shared my bed, but I'm not one to wait for something that's completely nonexistant.

So, as before, Virginity does not rule and should be outlawed.

Niceguy all options should be avaliable to those who choose them. I hope you're joking and not serious about limiting peoples choices of the lifestyle they want

Salmon Booze, Lilith and Frazier...

I think we've done our best not to take this seriously, compmore, but the creatively named Bob Bob Bond is responsible for the first mention of the G word.

I think that everyone who wants to refrain from reproducing should do so.

They will have no offspring to indoctrinate, and in one generation, they will be gone.

"Abstinenence is but self-torture."

Just how are people practicing abstinence, anyway? It sounds kinky.

Do you need whips and chains?

I think I can say this without fear of contradiction:

If you are Queen Elizabeth I, abstinence rules!

From a December the 7th, 2003 post (ironically, the anniversary of another big bomb, Pearl Harbour Day)...this quote from their forum...

" Re: no sex until marriage
« Reply #3 on: Dec 7th, 2003, 11:05pm » Quote | Modify | Remove

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i decidded a long time ago to wate till i am married before having sex but its just so hard to wait when you have a great boy friend and all the right oppritunuties. i was shoked when i found most girls want to do to be cool but all they get in return is a babby ."
-----------------SNIP=========================================
Not to be a spelling Nazi, but instead of being on that board, I think she needs to put in time studying for her next spelling test.

Girls need to avoid getting a "babby"....I guess, if they want to learn how not to get one, they should spend more time on the "internets".

"Those who wish to stay celibate until they're 45 are dangers to humanity."

Why? Do they blow up? Melt? Eyes pop out? Aliens burst forth from their stomach?

No, the "dangers to humanity" always seem to come from someone who SHOULD HAVE remained celibate, even if they were married.

The Bundys (as in Ted, not Ed), the Mansons, Koreshs, Mussolinis, Stalins, Hitlers, bin Ladens, the Kahns, George and Barbara Bush and the many, many more families which have produced population control specialists.

so, they've found the missing link between man and monkey...there goes the god factor...so screw it, screw morals, and just plain SCREW! =)

"I wanted to wait until marriage but made a huge mistake. Since then I have not touched alcohol (yes, unfortunately it dealt with alcohol)."

Well, then that's your problem. You don't need to save sex until marriage, you just need to have self control. If drinking and having sex is your problem.. how is that relevant to marriage?

This article says we're in an increasingly conservative society. It seems like everyone here, including me, is actually in favor of sex *before* marriage. Most everyone I know favors sex before marriage.

For me, I only believe in saving sex until you love someone. In other words, don't be a whore, just be in love. Save moving in together until marriage, but not sex.

"Those who wish to stay celibate until they're 45 are dangers to humanity."

Actually, people who remain celibate until they're 45 are beneficial to a human race that is growing in number so fast that it's devouring every resource on the planet.

The biggest problem with saving sex until marriage is that that ideal usually has religious roots, resulting in people having guilt in general about sex. There's nothing like feeling like you're going to hell in the middle of sex

"Sure is a lot of begetting going on...."

or.. a lot of be-getting it on

the entire idea of chastity, along with most religious ideas, is to 'aid'/ increase the chances of people of having better lives, if you have sex at age 16, get your girl friend pregnate, and since abortion is killing a living human, then you have no choice but to marry her or pay for the baby for the next 18 years, along with finnishing HS, and College. For the woman, she is now stuck with a chiled that she needs to raise, while still not being an adult herself, trying to get through HS and College, and working to support herself. This really fucks up the life of the Mother, Father, and chiled.

The point of saving sex for after marriage is because sexual intercouse is supposed to be the greatist way of expressing unrestricted love for another person of the opposite gender with the outcome of reproduction. If you have sex before marriage, you have nowhere to go when you are married, which is why (well actually one cause/reason) there is such a high number of divorces.

It sounds like some of the people here took the abstinence-only sex education courses the government now endorses.
"If you have sex before marriage, you have nowhere to go when you are married, which is why (well actually one cause/reason) there is such a high number of divorces."--what??

"Abstinence only" is what was supposed to be the norm in the 50's and into the early 60's. What it really implied was women should practice "abstinence only" but men should sow a few wild oats. Not back to the bad old days, please. It didn't work as well as you might think. But it did create a lot more guilt about an act that is natural, and healthy, and loving. I have no problem with the kids practicing abstinence, but there are many more ways to teach them to be hypocrites than sex.

"I have no problem with the kids practicing abstinence, but there are many more ways to teach them to be hypocrites than sex."

I agree; attempting to 'inculcate' abstinence is about as productive as trying to inspire Dubya to care about common people dying in Iraq.

"'Abstinence only' did create a lot more guilt about an act that is natural, and healthy, and loving."

Sex is best when associated with caring and loving relationships, and proportionally safer in the longer relationships.

"So, they've found the missing link between man and monkey...there goes the god factor...so screw it, screw morals, and just plain SCREW! " =)

I could crack a joke here, but you won't like it.
Seriously, though, what was/is this missing link you refer to?

"Adam was an ape."

Oh, really. How do you know he wasn't a monkey's uncle?

"Those who wish to stay celibate until they're 45 are dangers to humanity.
. . . Virginity does not rule and should be outlawed."

Abstinence isn't a serious problem, but your kind of intolerance is.

I can't believe this. what is good for one person isn't always good for another. why is it so hard to accept others desires for their own personal life.

A man is out in the back yard, working in the garden on a Saturday afternoon, when his daughter comes up to him and asks what sex is.

So the father sits down and spends some time explaining to her what he feels is pertinent for her age. Throughout the entire conversation, the child looks puzzled.

Finally the father stops and says, "What made you ask about sex?"

"Well... Mom said lunch will be ready in a few secs."

Abstinence is good if one can spank the Monkey

"Abstinence is good if one can spank the Monkey."

Be careful, because you may end up coping with how to get the monkey off your back.

"Well... Mom said lunch will be ready in a few secs."

Splendid! George, where do you come up with those cool jokes?

awsome george

diogenes2....
http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/7505

No, I'm not kidding. If there's one thing I hate in this world more than anything else, it's these True Love Waits freaks going around encouraging people to never have sex and never to have kids.

And while there are those women who go and get a procedure done to get pregnant at 45 or older, not all women can get pregnant at 45 so if all women are encouraged to never have sex until 45, then there won't be anymore human race.

Now, I'm not encouraging rampant promiscuity. I'm not saying we should all go out and sleep with as many people as possible. No, I'm just saying we should do away with this virginity nonsense and let people lead a normal life. I haven't been with anyone in two years and I'm not upset or guilty for losing my virginity. In fact, it was literally driving me insane since I viewed myself as a freak (which I was), but once it was gone, I felt much better. And after that, I was only with two more women.

If we didn't have all these things to worry about, then maybe we'd be a better people.

NiceGuy2003;
Well, okay, you deserve to be accepted for your position as it applies to you personally, but the lingering part about "we should do away with this virginity nonsense" (and "outlaw it") is a step of encroachment into the lives of others who can make up their minds for themselves.

"If we didn't have all these things to worry about, then maybe we'd be a better people."

Those who wish to choose temporary abstinence, or keep their virginity until the right one comes along, etc., might counter by saying they think they're better off not worrying about sexually-transmittable diseases or unwanted pregnancy or emotional/spiritual conflicts . . . what would you say to them?

mmnuc3: Thanks for the link; fascinating information!
(I didn't know about this.)

[http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/7505]

Hey, whatever people want to practice is cool, be it abstinence or nymphomania. I do believe persoanlly that one should wait for adulthood before entering sexual relationships, but waiting until after marriage can be bad advice! What if you're sexually incompatible? Talk about raising the divorce rate. Way back when, if a married couple was sexually incompatible the didn't divorce, it was taboo. But they did have affairs aplenty, and for some reason that was tolerated.
I'm big on fidelity, so I made sure this time around that she and I were sexually compatible.

I see shmoo's in the holiday spirit. *holding up mistletoe* XX Christmas smooch. XX

Eh, well, I'm celibate right now. I'm not looking for it like most guys do. I just don't like it. And I do believe in safe sex. With my last girlfriend, when we didn't have protection I just didn't want to do anything. But most of the people out there sleeping around with anything warm, well, they just don't realize that without it, the chances of getting a disease go up exponentially. Not to mention pregnancy. Now, I want kids more than anything, but I want the girl I have them with to be ready as well and until that time comes, I'll use two if I have to.

I don't believe in forcing anyone to be abstinate. But if you listen to what these True Love Waits freaks spout, then you have no other choice. Not to mention what schools are forced to teach, no thanks to our current leader.

Maybe if we actually sat down with our children and talked to them, then we wouldn't be having this argument. I know I might be different seeing as no one ever told me anything. I had to learn about it from someone on the school bus.

No one said anything about forcing Niceguy. it's a site that gives an alternitive freely chosen. Again I'm appaled at some on this site who yell about free speech and choice but are quick to condem that which they disagree with.

"George, where do you come up with those cool jokes?"

Sound engineer in a casino. Concerts on the weekends; comedians or female impersonators the rest of the week. I don't remember where that one was from particularly. Maybe Gary Mule Deer.

Duck walks into a pharmacy and asks for some Chapstick.

The pharmacist says, "That'll be 98 cents."

The duck says, "Can you put it on my bill?"

The next day, the duck comes back and asks for some condoms.

The pharmacist says, "Should I put in on your bill?"

"No. I'm not that kind of a duck."

Outstanding! It's great having occasional comic relief (with such good material like that) in these forums.
Thanks, George.

I hadn't heard any of those; you had me doing another outburst at my computer again -- I almost spilled my eggnog all over the place!

I think the "you'll have nowhere to go when you're married" ploy is actually very true.

I just don't think it pertains to sex. I think your marriage is better off if you do have sex before marriage. As I said earlier, I think it's best to save living together for marriage. If you want "room to grow," what's harder? Having sex all day long, or learning to live together? The government's got it wrong, but the government has too many religious nut cases in it.

diogenes2.. demandrelevance reincarnated.

I'm gonna get on my soap box now because this culture of abstainance worship just pisses me off:

I have no problem with teaching a message of abstainance to children. I have a problem with the message of "wait until marriage".

How demeaning to women, how demeaning to men. First of all, waiting until after you make a lifelong commitment to someone to find out that you are sexually incompatible is foolhardy at best, destructive to the relationship at worst. Sex with your prospective mate before you make the final leap lets you know what you'll need to work on, discuss, or be aware of. Many many couples get divorced because the sexual side of their relationship was not explored and negotiated fully as a part of forming the relationship.

Second, wait until marriage isn't a message you want to send to young women who are forming their own personalities. It's a subtle and not so subtle way of saying "This is all you have to offer society, marriage, babies, and being a housewife." There's nothing wrong with any of those things, but I believe we've come to a point in our society where we have an obligation to encourage young women to be and do whatever they wish.

In addition, there's just as much sexist pressure upon men to "get hitched" before they even know who they are. Think of Fight Club "We are a generation of men raised by women, I'm not sure another woman is what we really need." There's also a double standard, where society says to women "don't" and to men "if you don't, what's wrong with you?"

Wait until marriage devalues life choices that may not include marriage, women and men who chose to live alone or make partnerships that don't conform to the narrow dictates of society.

Finally, wait until marriage is demeaning to gays and lesbians who aren't allowed by the current laws of most states to marry. If they aren't allowed to marry, when exactly are they supposed to boink?

I didn't wait until marriage. I've had 10 sexual partners before I met my current boyfriend. Or was it 9...anyway, I screwed, I'm not sorry, I was very careful, and I'm not some sort of twisted freak who kills babies. Boinking will not make you into someone Jebus doesn't love, just boink carefully and use a condom.

http://www.scarleteen.com