Published on: 11/04/04
America's faith in freedom has been reaffirmed. With the re-election of President Bush, America recommitted itself once again to expanding freedom and promoting liberty. Only the 1864 re-election of Abraham Lincoln, the 1944 re-election of Franklin Roosevelt and the 1980 election of Ronald Reagan rival this victory as milestones in the preservation of our security by the advancement of freedom.

This election validated not just freedom, but also the faith our Founding Fathers placed in average folks to navigate the course of this great nation. By weighing the greatest issues at the gravest times and choosing our path, ordinary people have again accomplished extraordinary things. With courage and caution, rather than fear and timidity, the voters chose a path to ensure others would enjoy the same freedom to set their own path.

This election outcome should have been implausible, if not impossible. With a litany of complaints — bad economy, bad deficit, bad foreign war, bad gas prices — amplified by a national media that discarded any pretense of neutrality, a national opposition party should have won this election.

But the Democratic Party is no longer a national party. As difficult as the challenges are — both real and fabricated — Democrats offered no solution that was either believable or acceptable to vast regions of America. Tax increases to grow the economy are not a solution that is believable or acceptable. Democratic promises of fiscal responsibility are unbelievable in the face of massive new spending promises. A foreign policy based on the strength of "allies" such as France is unacceptable. A strong national defense policy is just not believable coming from a candidate who built a career as an anti-war veteran, an anti-military candidate and an anti-action senator.

Democratic Party policies haven't sold in large sections of America in decades, and the only success of Democrats in presidential elections for 40 years was when they pitched themselves as pro-growth, low-tax, strong-defense, fiscally responsible, values-oriented candidates. Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton hummed the tune but never really sang the song, and that's why Democrat prospects have gone south in the South. In 1980, the South had 20 Democrats and just six Republicans in the Senate. As recently as 1994, the Senate had 17 Democrats and nine Republicans from the South.

A decade later, the number had reversed to 17 Republicans and nine Democrats. With this election, it is 22 Republicans and just four Democrats from the South. When will national Democrats sober up and admit that that dog won't hunt? Secular socialism, heavy taxes, big spending, weak defense, limitless lawsuits and heavy regulation — that pack of beagles hasn't caught a rabbit in the South or Midwest in years. The most recent failed nominee for president stands as proof that the national Democratic Party will continue to dwindle. The South has gone from just one-fourth of the Electoral College in 1960 to almost a third today. To put this in perspective, that gain is equal to all the electoral votes in Ohio. Yet there was not a single Southern state where John Kerry had any real chance. Would anyone like to place bets on the electoral strength of the South by 2012? Maybe they should tax stupidity. When you write off centrist and conservative policies that reflect the will of people in the South and Midwest, you write off the South and Midwest. Democrats have never learned from the second or third or fifth kick of a mule. They continue to change only the makeup on, rather than makeup of, the Democrat Party.

And so we have a realignment election. For the first time, in an "us vs. them" election and in the toughest of situations, Republicans have been re-elected to the White House, the Senate and the House of Representatives. Confronting an opposition that can win a divided electorate in the worst of times and that has a growing electoral base, the national Democratic Party has a choice: continue down this path toward irrelevance or reverse course. As the last Truman Democrat, I hope my party makes the right choice but know I will not be allowed to be part of it. Such is the price you pay when you love your nation more than your party.

And so while I retire with little hope for the near-term viability of the party I've spent my life building, I retire with a quiet satisfaction that after witnessing the struggle of democracy over communism and fascism, the fear I once held that America might not rise to meet this new challenge of terrorism has vanished like a fog under the radiance of a new dawn. While the threat is still real, the shadow looming across a promising future is gone.

And the credit for that goes to one man. Like the last lion of England, Winston Churchill, George W. Bush has stood alone and risked all to give the world a new, clearer path to the advancement of freedom.

Abraham Lincoln, in his second annual message to Congress, stated: "In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom for the free — honorable alike in what we give and what we preserve. We shall nobly save or meanly lose the last, best hope of earth."

George Bush has injected into a region of enslavement an incurable dose of freedom, and thus nobly saved that "last, best hope of earth" — free men.

— Zell Miller is Georgia's Democratic U.S. senator.

God I hate that man.

And that's another reason Kerry lost -- he was too closely associated with those spreading a message of hatred. Lessons learned? Apparently not. Thus a continued hard slog ahead for the Democrat party.

God Bless George Bush...He sends us all his love in this picture.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/codewarrior/bushonefingervictory.jpg

agreed autodidact

Mr. Bush has expressed his interest in further missions to Mars, however; I feel our money would be better spent on space explorations to that corner of a distant galaxy where they name their children "Zell". I think that may be the planet Borak in the Klingon galaxy.

But seriously folks, if there ever was a poster child for Paxil, even more than Howard Dean, it has to be mister Miller.

"Throughout his career, Senator Miller has credited two major influences for his success: his strong mother and the U.S. Marine Corps." (from his website at http://miller.senate.gov/bio.htm). While I respect him for his service to our country in the Corps, and anyone who loves his mother I guess isn't all bad...

I sincerely think Zell needs meds ...STAT.

While opinions vary, I caught part of his rant on television at the RNC, and a friend of mine, who isn't really politically minded at all, and who didn't know who Zell Miller was, while watching that display from Mr. Miller observed..."That man needs a thorough evaluation from a mental health professional. There is something seriously wrong with him."

I concur.

He show nothing but Hate. And Bush is no man of GOD.

neither is anyone who spouts hate.

besides I think that's for God to decide

"Abraham Lincoln, in his second annual message to Congress, stated: "In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom for the free — honorable alike in what we give and what we preserve. We shall nobly save or meanly lose the last, best hope of earth."

Apparently, old Zell didn't go beyond the Reader's Digest version of the Abe Lincoln story.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa082800a.htm
"Search
U.S. Gov Info / Resources
Abraham Lincoln a Racist?

Part 1: Black American historian presents evidence More of this Feature
• Part 2: Is it True?





Join the Discussion
Was Lincoln a Racist? Click Here to Discuss

"Lerone Bennett is a knucklehead."
WBHICKOK
What Do You Say?
"Mr. Lincoln wasn't a racist as far as we can justify using the word to describe an individual of the mid-nineteenth century. By today's standards he was a racist of the worst kind."
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Related Resources
• Gettysburg Address
• Emancipation Proc.
• 2nd Inaugural Speech
• Presidents' Day





From Other Guides
• Presidential Connections: Adoption & Kinship Care in the Lives of U.S. Presidents

• The 'Real' Lincoln
• 40 Acres & a Sedan
• Talking Slavery





Elsewhere on the Web
• The Lincoln Museum
• Founders' Library
• Lerone Bennett




About Poll
If Abraham Lincoln were alive today, would he be considered a racist?
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Current Results


In his new book, Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream, black American author, Lerone Bennett, presents historic evidence supporting the theory that Abraham Lincoln was, in fact, a devoted racist harboring a life-long desire to see all black Americans deported to Africa.

Bennett suggests that as a young politician in Illinois, Lincoln regularly used racial slurs in speeches, told racial jokes to his black servants, and vocally opposed any new laws that would have bettered the lives of black Americans.

Key to Bennett's thesis is the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation which, Bennett argues, Lincoln was forced into issuing by the powerful abolitionist wing of his own party. Bennett asserts that Lincoln carefully worded the document to apply only to the rebel Southern states, which were not under Union control at the time, thus resulting in an Emancipation Proclamation that did not in itself free a single slave.

At one point, Bennett quotes William Henry Seward, Lincoln's secretary of state, who referred to the proclamation as a hollow, meaningless document showing no more than, "our sympathy with the slaves by emancipating the slaves where we cannot reach them and holding them in bondage where we can set them free."

Henry Clay Whitney, a close friend of Lincoln, is quoted by Bennett as saying the proclamation was "not the end designed by him (Lincoln), but only the means to the end, the end being the deportation of the slaves and the payment for them to their masters - at least to those who were loyal."

Bennett asserts that Lincoln often put forth plans for deporting the slaves to Africa both before and during his presidency.

The tone of Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream is decidedly angry, as if Bennett feels betrayed by what he calls the "myth" of Abraham Lincoln.

"No other American story is so enduring. No other American story is so comforting. No other American story is so false." -- Lerone Bennett, Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream."

http://www.prairie.org/detours/lincoln/features/qna.html
"Was Abe Lincoln A White Supremacist?" In the article, Bennett contended that the widely held image of Abraham Lincoln as the "Great Emancipator" was a myth and that America needs to re-examine Lincoln's public policies on slavery and Lincoln's own ideas about race. Thirty years later, Bennett, executive editor of Ebony Magazine, again questions Lincoln's legacy and its effect on the nation today.

--Lerone Bennett Jr.
DETOURS: Exactly, why do you consider Lincoln as the "Great Emancipator" a myth, as you stated in your article, "Was Abe Lincoln A White Supremacist?" (Ebony, February 196?

BENNETT: Oh, there are so many reasons, I'm doing a book on this. First of all he was not an emancipator, great or otherwise. He did not emancipate black people in this country. And it is unfortunate for black people and white people that there's been so much misinformation disseminated on Abraham Lincoln and the Emancipation Proclamation. Unfortunately, again, only a handful of Americans has read the Emancipation Proclamation. Few know what's in it or what it says. In fact, the Emancipation Proclamation did not free a single slave in and of itself. Lincoln "freed" the slaves in the South, where he could not free them. Specifically, and this is the clincher, there were on January 1, 1863 three or four or five areas where Abraham Lincoln could have actually freed somebody. One of those was in New Orleans and half of Louisiana that was controlled by Confederate forces at that time. If you read the Emancipation Proclamation, you will find out that he specifically excluded the black people in New Orleans and Louisiana where he could have freed. There's an area in Virginia, in and around Norfolk, where he could have freed somebody on January 1st-- he specifically excluded those people from the Emancipation Proclamation. Black people in America were freed not by the Emancipation Proclamation, but by the 13th Amendment to the Constitution."

"But the Democratic Party is no longer a national party . . . Democrats offered no solution that was either believable or acceptable to vast regions of America."

Yet some are still inexplicably promoting Hillary Clinton for 2008.

I don't believe he's actually comparing Dubya to Churchill. Redneck.

"And the credit for that goes to one man. Like the last lion of England, Winston Churchill, George W. Bush has stood alone and risked all to give the world a new, clearer path to the advancement of freedom."

Stood alone? More likely propped up.

Advancement of freedom? Where?

Sherm, watch it, when Hillary's president, you'll be sorry for badmouthing her!

Hillary is terrible. There IS a Libertarian party you know!

My daughter's eighth-grade class held a mock election before the big mock election Nov. 2nd, and most of the students voted for Kerry--to be expected in this proudly Democratic corner of Florida. The rest voted for Bush, with one exception. Guess who voted for the Libertarian candidate....

http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/messages.cfm/threadid=14576/forumid=5

Who said the war on terror isn't working? If you don't like this article, just Google "John Lehman bin laden"

"Sherm, watch it, when Hillary's president, you'll be sorry for badmouthing her! "

When Hillary's president, I'll be sorry I'm alive =)

Sherm I've read and listened to interviews with special forces officers actige and retired. all of them laughed at or disagreed with the liberal assertion that the war on terror or the hunt for Bin ladden is failing. I know this is a shock for our left winged extremists friends who spend their time with conspiracies and hate mongering but you can't conduct a search of this nature on the front pages of the new york times.

sedvp kz-= hvoakl Bush

great artical and about says it all . go ahead with all the put downs and hate talk the left will still be in the same place they are in the next election

unrepresented?

Whether or not someone was a racist 150 agos is irrelevant. Differtent time, different circumstances.

The Librarian Party?

Is every one of you drunk at the same time or has a misspelling gremlin gotten into your keyboards.

Four more beers!

(we're pretending we're republicans)

George, what does that mean? It will drive me crazy, and I will drive everybody I know crazy until I find out.

Btw, the conspiracy theories are in full bloom....Conyers, Wexler, and Nadler have supposedly sent a letter to the GAO asking for an investigation into the election results in several different states, including the home of my very own Bush baby, Jeb. Gee, whodathunk?

What does what mean? Oh wait, I know. It means nothing. The cat walked across the keyboard and I typed "Bush" at the end.

The aliens made me do it.

And they gave me a cookie.

Read my lips...

... no new faxes

You're not the president, George, so you can't just make up words whenever you want to.

Yesterday someone told me George won the election. Fool me once...

Don't believe everything you hear. Be selective. We can all learn that from our kids.

ignoranceness is bliss

'Night, you little Republican, you!

comp,

Yeah. From what I understand, the anti-bushies (not necessarily the "left") promote the idea that the war on terror isn't working because they disagree with going to Iraq and "how we did it" and that they have not made a public announcement confirming bin laden's whereabouts.

I'm glad this site exists, so I have somewhere to talk politics. I didn't want to be a nusance somewhere and constantly be off topic

"(we're pretending we're republicans)"

you guys suck at impressions

Don't believe everything you hear.

you're right, and I'll begin by ignoring all this left wing, temper tantrum trash. have fun guys. it may make you all feel better but in the morning Bush will still be the legally elected president and some of you will have to grow up and act like adults. I'm going to talk with my 16 year old daughter now. I want some refreshing intellegent conversation.

Sherm, politics IS the topic. I didn't post it. I'm merely here to ridicule it.

I always vote for Dave Barry anyway.

To quote Shmoo...
"Codewarrior/Ziemann 2008"

Sherm. I'm glad this site exists too. I used to take the anti riaa talk too seriously. now I have something to humor myself with since it's so off topic now. almost makes me wish I would've voted for Bush. almost but not quite.

Bush is the lethally elected president...yeah...I like that line.....
"I'm going to talk with my 16 year old daughter now. I want some refreshing intellegent conversation."

intellegent...COMP...please don't correct her on spelling!!!!!

"some of you will have to grow up and act like adults"

musicians, of course, are excluded.

George W Bush is not fit to be president and has taken away the moral of this country. He covers up his plans for continuing the war by saying that he will get rid of gay marriages and abortion, both which are completely out of his power (considering the first amendment of the bill of rights which this country is founded on) and have nothing to do with politics but religion. The American public also fails to notice that he has been slowly taking away its right, this shown especially with the patriots act, which more or less takes away your free speech, which your daddy's daddy's daddy's agreed on. America has just made a very big mistake, and now it has to suffer for four more years. God help us.

We're way past the point of calling things off topic just because of an individual article. This website is off topic, period. The content and the name clash completely.

Because the RIAA is now insignificant?

I don't correct her Code. that's my wifes job. if all you can do is critize my spelling (wich isn't important weather I spell correctly or not) then I'm in pretty good shape

County Map of the election results, Red: Republicans, Blue: Democrats.
http://images.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/elections2004/_images/2004countymap3.gif

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm


Square miles of counties won
Bush 2.51 million
Kerry 511,700

Population (2003) of counties won
Bush 150,9 million
Kerry 103.6 million

http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=m:5:14576:132452
Here, Sherm, one for you. From a ?questionable? news source.

"Because the RIAA is now insignificant?"

Well holy shit then. You heard it here first. We need to focus our energy on wallowing in our own self-pity and crying about a president being elected to a second term. No time for the RIAA.

It's alright guys.. everybody had to put up with you morons electing clinton twice.

If anybody needs me, I'll be following George's advice and be downtown buying CDs.

rightwinnutjob,

Thanks for the link. As you can clearly see, big cities vote democratic. So any of you who are wondering why terrorists like to fly planes into big building.. it's because democrats don't just piss off republicans.. they piss off everybody.

That's not a whole lot different than the other articles... same quotes too.

this is interesting. when I open up this website peerguardian blocks Turner Broadcasting

"America's faith in freedom has been reaffirmed."

I'd love to have whatever Miller's smoking. This election was a sham. There is nothing legitimate about it. These voting machines that leave no auditable trail are proving to be unreliable at best. And as a result, we get four years on the road to the Fourth Reich. The same Riech that brought you John Ashcroft.

I'm not a supporter of Kerry. I just read the reports coming in, and then read Miller's little suck to up Bush, and I get disgusted. There is no freedom left in this country. Otherwise, a president who jacked up our national debt another trillion, stole civil liberties, and lied blatantly about a illegitimate war (and still has yet to apologize to anyone for it) would never, ever be elected. He'd be impeached.

I only hope the elctorate realize one day that they really coudl all vote for a third party and change the course of our declining country.

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged"

Has anyone seen this yet?

http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/timages/page/exit_poll.gif

If he represents freedom so much is he an active member of the "Skull & Bones" secret society? Ask any christain who reads the bible and what God says about belonging to secret groups. The Evangalicals were duped into thinking hes the ticket. Thats the GREAT deception we were foretold about in the end days. But if it means it will get us closer to Gods return so be it! But know that he is just part of the plan.

"Sherm I've read and listened to interviews with special forces officers actige and retired. all of them laughed at or disagreed with the liberal assertion that the war on terror or the hunt for Bin ladden is failing."

Colin Powell says we are losing in Iraq.

mroop, one minute he's a liar, and the next minute you believe him?

Those are interesting charts. PA and North Carolina seem like the questionable ones, not the others. They were off on a few, but it's just sampling, so that's to be expected. PA & NC are off by a disproportionate amount. That doesn't necessarily mean anything sneaky is going on though.

(the hunt for bin laden isn't occuring in iraq)

new hampshire too... maybe they had idiots doing the job for them.. ?

If nothing sneaky is going on with this election, I can't understand why there was a major protest in Ohio over the voting:

http://michiganimc.org/feature/display/7644/index.php

Guess those people are only out celebrate the "mandate" that Bush seems to feel he has.

"mroop, one minute he's a liar, and the next minute you believe him? "

Who did I call a liar?

"(the hunt for bin laden isn't occuring in iraq)"

Hunt for Bin Laden? Hee hee. Do you know anything about the politics of Pakistan and the central government's complete lack of control over the border region?

powell!

A little... bin laden's in Pakistan..

"Presidential Votes Miscast on E-voting Machines Across the Country

Voters discovered the problems when checking the review screen at the end of the voting process. They found, to their surprise, that the machines indicated that they voted for one candidate when they had voted for another. When voters tried to correct the problem, the machine often made the same error several times. While in most cases the situation was reportedly resolved...."

http://www.eff.org

"powell!"

I never called Powell a liar.

good article. To be honest, I hope they're right. We have major problems regardless of whether or not voter fraud occured. If we can get 300 million people fully pissed off at the government, then everyone's problems are solved (except the government's, of course..)

I thought you did in another article. He went in front of the UN and lied.. some such. Doesn't matter. I was just joking.

the thing is that voting fraud has been going on since elections first started taking place. why is this year any different?? answer, it's not..

or I should say, localized voting fraud

I agree, comp. With one exception - E-voting makes screwing with elections 5,000% easier. I'm not saying it happened, but the chances of it happening and of it being worse are higher.

"A little... bin laden's in Pakistan.."

Pakistan has essentially no control over the border region, which is supposedly where Bin Laden is located.

"Pakistan's decision to send thousands of troops to the remote northern tribal regions marks a fundamental shift in government policy. For decades, the regions have been closed to the outside world, ruled by local leaders who have defied the efforts of the central government to expand its control."

Musharraf is in a very tenous position, having recently survived two attempts on his life.

"For Musharraf, too, the danger remains that in pursuing a U.S. agenda he may easily ignore the reality of an important political dimension in his own fight against terror. The Pakistani tribesmen who shelter the so-called terrorists do so believing that they represent a just cause.

Ultimately, the success of the military operation in northern Pakistan will depend on the extent to which Musharraf is able to initiate a wide-ranging political dialogue with the tribal leaders. He must therefore resist Washington's call to wage war against terrorists on U.S. terms for two fundamental reasons:

First, unlike the U.S., which has the luxury of not fighting terrorists on its own soil at present, Musharraf would eventually end up picking up the pieces if the situation in northern Pakistan turned into a wider political battle. Pakistan, therefore, must be careful to only wage war and not actively seek to control a tribal population that for centuries has freely moved across the border in and out of Afghanistan.

Second, Musharraf, whose domestic political credentials remain questionable, should not be encouraged by the support he receives from the Bush administration, which says it considers him one of its closest allies in the war on terror. Ultimately, Musharraf's political weakness from never having faced a popular election could well return to haunt him in the future."

http://202.221.217.59/print/opinion/eo2004/eo20040402fb.htm

mroop, I am aware of that situation. That's pretty much summed up in the link I posted too.

Did you see bush's speeches toward the end of the campaign?

You could put him speaking next to a kkk grand wizard speaking..

replace the words "nigger", "faggot", and "jew" with "liberal" and you get bush!

This isnt about the democratic party falling apart, it's about the republican party using the tride and true tactics of shameless fabrication, propaganda, and hate mongering.

"Secular socialism, heavy taxes, big spending, weak defense, limitless lawsuits and heavy regulation — that pack of beagles hasn't caught a rabbit in the South or Midwest in years."

what is he TALKING about?

the bush administration has been pushing their lovely copyright lawsuit bills like induce, pirate, and PDEA for years now!

The DMCA was clinton's baby.. why isnt the bush administration trying to wipe that clinton spawn from the face of the earth if they hate democrats so much.

and we all know republicans arent at ALL about heavy regulation... with calea, the broadcast flag, cable plug and play.. and the overall requirements for DRM across all TV delivery systems..

naaw.. thats not at all heavy.

"Tax increases to grow the economy are not a solution that is believable or acceptable."

actually.. so called "stimulation" of the economy through tax breaks is at best VERY SHORT TERM.

in order to help expand the economy you dont give people 300 bucks.. you need to lower interest rates and expand the money supply while keeping the inflation which normally comes with that expansion in check.

the bush administration has not done a good enough job in this.

"America's faith in freedom has been reaffirmed." -- Zell Miller

hbkfan wrote:

"There is no freedom left in this country. Otherwise, a President who jacked up our national debt another trillion, stole civil liberties, and lied blatantly about an illegitimate war (and still has yet to apologize to anyone for it) would never be re-elected. He'd be impeached.

I only hope the elctorate realize one day that they really could vote for a third party and change the course of our declining country."

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one MAKES them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." -- Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged"


Oh, but I digress. Back to reality (yeah, right).

Zell: "The shadow looming across a promising future is gone.
And the credit for that goes to one man.
George Bush has . . . saved that last, best hope of earth — free men."

hbkfan: "I'd love to have whatever Miller's smoking."

Delusion is bliss. It helps people feel better for awhile.

Most of the Republican voters along with some of the Democratic voters are likely deluded wilthout necessarily smoking anything at all. But I doubt they're feeling as good as Zell...I doubt anyone is...unless they're dreaming. Wait, who's to say he isn't?

Then again, Zell does make a valid point here and there. (The Republicans have their way in the heartland and in the South, and the Dems don't.
Wow, and water is wet.)

"This election validated not just freedom, but also the faith our Founding Fathers placed in average folks to navigate the course of this great nation." -- Zell Miller

Validating freedom?
Average folks don't have power to stop draconian tactics from the likes of Ashcroft and his department of injustice.
Average folks don't have power to prevent loss of liberties from the Patriot Act promoted by the President.

Steering national direction?
Average folks don't have power to navigate the course of this nation in foreign military affairs; that's a (relished) solo prerogative of Dubya's.
Average foks don't have power to stop this nation from losing more of its former greatness; that's an inevitable trend of politics, power and greed gone wild.

Go back to your pipe dream, Zell. Just be careful about falling asleep while smoking.

Zell brings out the patriotic fervor in me, and our cherished Pledge of Allegiance comes to mind. But, how about an updated version that might more closely reflect present-day reality? Perhaps it could go like this. . .

"I plead my misgivings about the United States of America and about the Republic that no longer stands strong -- one nation, splintered and polarized, under Neocons, with liberty and justice under assault."

Here's some more mapping of election results, this time thank the nice folks over at ESRI:

http://www.esri.com/industries/elections/graphics/results2004_lg.jpg

This confirms the idea that John Kerry should consider himself lucky to have the few clusters of support in this country that he does. Unfortunately (almost anyway) for the rest of humanity, his clusters of support are LA, NYC, Seattle, Miami, and Chicago. We put criminals in jail and democrats in big cities. Almost enough people in just those cities to ruin it for the rest of the country. Almost..... but not quite.

quote--You could put him speaking next to a kkk grand wizard speaking..

replace the words "nigger", "faggot", and "jew" with "liberal" and you get bush! --end quote

Of course, it is apples and oranges. You can't compare race or sexual preference with a chosen political philosophy. And if you feel that liberalism is a deadly danger to our country, economically and morally, then it is one's duty to speak against it. Are you claiming that Bush is an effective orator, and that scares you? I thought he was dumb, and couldn't "talk good." Make up your minds.

"Iraq declares 60-day state of emergency
Move comes amid dramatic upsurge in violence, ahead of elections"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6403689/

"WASHINGTON - Several thousand shoulder-fired missiles — the kind that could be used to shoot down aircraft — are missing in Iraq, and their disappearance has prompted U.S. military and intelligence analysts to increase sharply their estimate of the number of such weapons that may be at large, administration officials said yesterday."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6424036/

"Make no mistake - conservative Christians and 'values voters' won this election for George W. Bush and Republicans in Congress," Mr. Viguerie wrote in a memorandum sent to other prominent conservatives. "It's crucial that the Republican leadership not forget this - as much as some will try," he said, underlining the final clause."

"Dr. James C. Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family and an influential evangelical Protestant, said he had issued a warning to a "White House operative" who called yesterday morning to thank him for his help.

Dr. Dobson said he told the caller that many Christians believed the country "on the verge of self-destruction" as it abandoned traditional family roles. He argued that "through prayer and the involvement of millions of evangelicals, and mainline Protestants and Catholics, God has given us a reprieve."

"But I believe it is a short reprieve," he continued, adding that conservatives now had four years to pass an amendment banning same-sex marriage, to stop abortion and embryonic stem-cell research, and most of all to remake the Supreme Court. "I believe that the Bush administration now needs to be more aggressive in pursuing those values, and if they don't do it I believe they will pay a price in four years," he said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/politics/campaign/04conserve.html

There is more conservative legislation coming our way. Has anyone heard of the "Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act" ?

"I think it is a real possibility," said Senator Sam Brownback, Republican of Kansas, a champion of social conservative causes. In the meantime, he said, he also hoped to pass other measures conservatives had campaigned for this year, including an "Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act" requiring some women seeking abortions to be offered anesthesia for their fetuses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/politics/campaign/04conserve.html

The electioVoting machine error gives Bush 3,893 extra votes in Ohio
The Associated Press, November 5, 2004

Excerpts:


COLUMBUS, Ohio – An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said.

Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.

Bush actually received 365 votes in the precinct, Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, told The Columbus Dispatch.

State and county election officials did not immediately respond to requests by The Associated Press for more details about the voting system and its vendor, and whether the error, if repeated elsewhere in Ohio, could have affected the outcome.

Bush won the state by more than 136,000 votes, according to unofficial results, and Kerry conceded the election on Wednesday after acknowledging that 155,000 provisional ballots yet to be counted in Ohio would not change the result.

The Secretary of State's Office said Friday it could not revise Bush's total until the county reported the error.

-------

In the Ohio precinct in question, the votes are recorded onto a cartridge. On one of the three machines at that precinct, a malfunction occurred in the recording process, Damschroder said. He could not explain how the malfunction occurred.

Damschroder said people who had seen poll results on the election board's Web site called to point out the discrepancy. The error would have been discovered when the official count for the election is performed later this month, he said.

The reader also recorded zero votes in a county commissioner race on the machine.

Workers checked the cartridge against memory banks in the voting machine and each showed that 115 people voted for Bush on that machine. With the other machines, the total for Bush in the precinct added up to 365 votes.

(# 9:44 AM)

n result WAS implosable.. you CHEATED!!!

Thank you, Code, for bringing up the racial element of this election.. again, we were blindsided so easily by simplistic statements and fears about AMERICANS that we don't know. Way to go, Christofascists!! You proved, once again, that hate respects no law, guzzles power, and invalidates compassion. I have fought this battle over and over and over. And, despite the outcome, which is suspect, I will ever seek to find the America that I hope for. "Values voters" is just another fancy code word! "moral majority""dixiecrats""soccer moms" on and on and on and on...

Hi, mroop! Thanks.

Comp said: "voting fraud has been going on since elections first started taking place. why is this year any different??"
So, we should just be quiet and accept it?

"In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost in Tuesday’s election because officials mistakenly believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did.

And in San Francisco, a voting software malfunction could delay efforts to declare the winners of four county supervisor races.
But in Perry County, a punch-card system reported about 75 more votes than there are voters in one precinct. Workers tried to cancel the count when the tabulator broke down midway through, but the machine instead double-counted an unknown number in the first batch. The mistake will be corrected, officials say.
When the San Francisco Department of Elections tried a test run Wednesday, some of the votes didn’t get counted. The problem was attributed to a programming glitch that limited how much data could be accepted, a threshold that did not account for high voter turnout.

In New York, voting machine problems surfaced in a contested state Senate race. Elections officials disclosed in court that seals were missing or broken on 22 impounded voting machines."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6418513/

awher.. you are forgiven! (from the 800 Pound Gorilla thread) Your statements here indicate that you are, indeed, aware of the power of hate speech, and the political ramifications of the scared uninformed. This tatic is not new, of course, but that it reared it's ugly head in this manner and to this extent is disturbing. How do you reason with a "rabid red-stater?" How do you compromise to the good with a zealot who considers you second class?

"Tim Russert: It is interesting to hear people talking about “mandate.” It was a strong victory, but if 150,000 votes changed in Ohio, Sen. John Kerry would be elected president."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5961048/

I am going to send leflaw some more money.. this site is just excellent! All you flame-throwers.. are you going to put your money where your mouth is??

Sherm: That is an interesting map, but I think that this site gives a little more detail. It's not that cut and dry - red or blue. It's shades of red and blue:
http://www.electionprojection.com/elections2004.html

http://www.boingboing.net/images/Purple-USA.jpg shows that the states were not all 100 percent red or blue, but a blend.. much more realistic. Dang, Lachatte, you BEAT me to it!!

That's a good image, too, Mary!

Send money. Buy boycott merchandise if you feel like it. Here's an insta-poll: waht is the best value in merchandise for your Christmas gifts? Knowing in advance that we will once again emphasize that people shouldn't purchase major music CD's but intead buy something useful. Especially teenagers. You can't buy them major label crap when they already swapped MP3's with friends.

Do you prefer bumper stickers or t-shirts? It's a matter of cost, isn't it, but please note that we need to get some bucks in and continue our lobby efforts at the FCC, Congress and WIPO.

I might even convince Leflaw to put out Boycott MPAA merchandise. Wait and see how you feel this week when the MPAA sues 300 people!

Good point, Tom. And there's a SALE on the hooded sweatshirt!

I asked my daughter (teenager) to look at the women's t-shirt. She already has the long-sleeve shirt. She wasn't really excited. She said she gets tired of people asking her who/what the RIAA is? "That's the point!!!!", I tell her.

Everyone asks me what the RIAA is...I wear my anti-RIAA shirt to school,and people give me weird looks and say "What's the RIAA?".

I give them the short version,because it's usually on my way to class that it happens.
It gets a bit bothersome,but whenever someone finally sees the evil tactics the RIAA uses,it makes my day a good deal better.

Why don't you print out a few flyers that you can just hand them on your way? With a few important sources listed on it, so they can go home and surf to their hearts' content?

jazzmary, mroop, the vaunted United Nations (I'll pause while the liberals genuflect in hushed silence at the mention of this deity)... have just put their stamp of approval on our election returns. The UN says that our elections met international standards. I guess that means we pass the GLOBAL TEST!! LOL

Well, let the conspiracy theories begin. We all need entertainment.

quote -- There is more conservative legislation coming our way. Has anyone heard of the "Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act" ? -- end quote

What's wrong with that. Kerry wanted to wage a sensitive war. Shouldn't we be sensitive in the war against the unborn? We wouldn't deny a wounded enemy soldier pain medication. Doesn't a child deserve the same consideration?

If liberals want to oppose these measures, thereby associating pain relief with conservative philosophy, that's OK by me. It just points out who is really compassionate, and who isn't.

Let's say I'm from Missouri, autodidact--give me a link for the U.N. story, because I googled it several different ways and couldn't find it. Show me.

ShadowMom you may won't to read this.

World Wide Petition against the Escalation in Iraq: An initiative of the BRussells tribunal endorsed

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4177

I read it, gilbd, and it's a great idea, but Dubya has already thumbed his nose at the international community. Besides, I'm pretty sure no one in his inner circle will read it to him. First we clean up our own house.

Here's a thought for all the christian haters in the group....Seems most of the "red state" places where christian values are supposed to have carried the day for the repubs are also the places where America's FOOD is grown and ENERGY is produced. Judging from some of the more derogatory left wing comments from some posters, it's a good thing, or a lot of people in the "blue states" would be going hungry or freezing in the dark. Gotta love those christian values.

That is so ridiculous.

They are not true christian. A true christian does not put others down. As a christian I know. When you put somebody down because they are gay that's not a true christian.

ShadowMom And he thumbed his nose at us also.

autodidact -- Don't you think it's significant that the UN had to come to the US and monitor the elections like we were some kind of third world country?

"Seems most of the "red state" places where christian values are supposed to have carried the day for the repubs are also the places where America's FOOD is grown and ENERGY is produced."

Your computer came from a blue state.

And your car...

The people in Toshiba are Democrats?

The people in Microsuckland, however do come from a blue state.

My car comes from Saturn, I don't think the absentee ballots are in yet. he he, eh?

OK you got me there.

But think about this. If the Democrats start acting like the Republicans -- or more accurately, begin to employ the same strategerey -- it is necessary to demonize the word conservative, much in the same manner as the Republicans demonized the word liberal. (Kerry was a liberal like Genghis Khan was a moderate.)

It's Karl Roveism -- Attack the strength. You want us to be like you? Okay, you got it.

And the Democrates haven't demonized the word conservative?


As long as the media can only provide two sides for every issue, democracy suffers. How can the electorate make a reasoned decision when the people charged with informing them are biased in one way or another.

We have much the same problem out here in the western wastelands. The Easterners have been making our decisions for us for far too long. At least now we have a minority government so the politicians will be too busy arguing with one another to spend a lot of time messing up the working guys.

"In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost in Tuesday’s election"

They were all going to Bush anyway

What makes you think they were Bush votes. But we already know it was a fixed election. Before you say anything there is no PROOF Bush won.

so much hate mongering. your candidate doesn't win therefore it's fixed, the american people are stupid, etc... You all sound like a bunch of spoiled brats on a playground who can't win a ball game therefore throws a tantrum and calls everyone names to satisfy your outrage rather than taking responsibility for yourselves and learn how to play better.

In 1992 I owned a little pizza parlor and had a sales rep who was a vicous conservitive lackey who did nothing but insult and slander Clinton and Perot. (I was leaning toward Perot at the time) He made me so sick he was one of the reasons I went democratic that year. Clinton never won a majority of the popular vote yet Liberals everywhere claimed a mandate.

This year it's the exact same thing only it's the democrat liberals who are the most vicious and hatful ones. One of the biggest problems you people on this site has is that you don't understand or know how to speak to the average moderate American. you only preach to the chior. Hate mongering only sickens Moderates and this year the Democrats were the most sickening ones, that's why they lost pure and simple. Next time it may be the Republicans.

This is why you're called extremists. people who see only one ideology at the exclusion of all else. neither side speaks for the average american. If I were speaking to a conservitive extremists group I'd say the same thing.

"How can the electorate make a reasoned decision when the people charged with informing them are biased in one way or another."

EVERYONE is biased on way or another.

We have seen the result of trying to remove bias by the media. The result is a recitation of what was said by A and B, but without any attempt to separate the truth from fiction, which would show a bias against he who lied.

Can't have that.

sure it was a fixed election. Elvis is alive, Hitler lived to be an old man in south america, Roosevelt spent the last remaining years in the Soviet Union, and we're living in a matrix world while our bodies provide electricity for the real machine world culture.

The "the average moderate American" has no clue who the RIAA is, still buys RIAA music, doesn't file share and goes to a bar where they still play "Sweet Home Alabama" every night. Not a minority in sight.

I met these guys in Iowa last year. They're making crystal meth out behind the barn. They sow their wild oats on Saturday night and then go to church on Sunday to pray for a crop failure.

And there is a great misconception among conservatives that Democrats are liberals. They didn't offer up a liberal; they gave us Bush Light.

Nader was the liberal, remember? What did he get, like 15 votes or something?

And Iowa picked Kerry at the outset.

I did say democrat liberals, not democrats. I'd like to support the democratic party. I was looking for a reason too but the extremists liberal base of the party has control of it. I can't support that.

Compmore, you say you can't support the Democratic Party because extremist liberals have control of it.
So, you are against extremism, correct?

But you would have no major difficulty supporting the Bush Administration and the current Republican Party even though it has many of the hallmarks of RIGHT-wing extremism?
(Notice, this latter sentence is in the form of a question, not an indctment.)

typo: indctment = indictment

(All I want for Christmas is an 'edit' button for these websites.)

"What makes you think they were Bush votes. But we already know it was a fixed election. Before you say anything there is no PROOF Bush won."

Nothing makes me think it. I was just fucking with you guys because you're assholes.

How do you know it was fixed? And I think counting the votes is proof that he won. Why don't you jackasses explain yourselves instead of calling someone out on their sarcasm because you're too stupid to figure out that it is, in fact, sarcasm.

cry me a river

"..and we're living in a matrix world while our bodies provide electricity for the real machine world culture."

You think that's funny, comp? You can't PROVE that it's not true! Prove it now, as all of us liberals watch you fail! mwa!

"I see gay people."
-conservatives

Let's celebrate democracy by calling every single election a sham because the guy we liked didn't win! Overthrow the government! Put our guy in there! Democracy rules! go democrats!

did ya catch the sarcasm? You're not going to make me explain my reasoning for reaching such outrageous conclusions, are you?

"... bad gas prices "

bad gas prices?

That's why we're blowing up innocent Iraqi's, remember? We're trying to fix that. It's a war over oil, remember? You said it yourselves. Our president is doing all he can to make you happy and you're still not. God forbid any democrats pay extra for gas.

demandrelevance I never said I supported the right winged conservitives. If you read my post you'll see I voted third party. the right winged extremists are as much of a part of the republicans. all I said was the Liberal Dems have been more openly, blanetly nastier this election and that turns moderates like me off. I do however support Bush as my president because he was fairly elected. Had Kerry won I would support him as my president. that's the difference between myself and most hate mongers.

what I've heard on this site is the type of thing that has done more to polorize the electorate than anything Bush has done. the only reason this country is still divided is because extremists on both sides don't want to move on.

and don't make the common extremists mistake of assuming just because I don't fall into the same hate mongering I'm a supporter of one side or the other.

I don't know, compmore. I think it was pretty darned close. And the real shit didn't start to fly until the Republican Convention. I don't think the Democrats even mentioned Bush at their convention, at least not by name.

I agree that the Michael Moores were just as annoying as the O'Reillys.

But some of us have seen Bush as the greater evil since before his first term -- an evil that claims God is on his side. It OUR moral values that tells us that this guy is an ignorant lunatic who is a threat to the entire world.

He gets his advice directly from God. But he's wrong a lot.

Does not compute.

But it's nothing personal. Just politics. Ask John McCain.

I know what you mean george but I've never heard Bush say he speaks to God. everything he's said about his faith is correct from my understanding. God speaks to all of us through different means. God and faith to a christain isn't a sunday deal, it's how we live our lives. God gives us direction through daily events, people we meet and circumstances that occur. We take our knowlege and experience from that and move forward thanking god in our hearts for giving us wisdom (he wisdom not worldly) to make decisions and humility to learn from our mistakes. that's what Bush was refering to but it's been blown way out of perportion by those who hate him.

see the politics as wrong. policies and his ideas as wrong. but not the man. he is not evil and it's just that charactorization that has made Democrats so sickenly vicious this year.

All people get their advice from God. It's up to us weather we want to accept it, or acknowledge it.

"I never said I supported the right-winged conservatives. If you read my posts, you'll see I voted third party."

Good for you; and that's why I had left my question open enough without indicting you... because I wasn't sure.
Thanks for your response.
Hey, I'm somewhat on your side to the extent that I voted third party, too!
One big difference is how I tend to lean more toward what 'Code wrote concerning Bush being President doesn't obligate us to repect him as a person for what he is or what he does. We have to respect his office, and the "democratic" process that got him elected (if the process was fair), because that's the nature of our system of government (a republic). But, otherwise, there's no {patriotic) rule that says we have to agree with him or help him achieve his agenda. Thank God.

Demand -- I agree 100%.

Thousand points of light. Stay the course.

ditto demandrelevance.

George Z., thanks!
I really appreciate your input a lot, and look forward to it -- as do many others on these sites.
Truth be told, you and 'Code and Shmoo and goldenpi and ... ah, there's probably too many to mention... you guys rule!!

I also look forward to what mroop has to say, too.
(Like I said, probably too many of you for me to remember. Sorry.)

Compmore, thanks to you too.

We have a good assortment of thinkers and responders on these webpages, and I sort of consider it an advantage for all of us in many ways.

Yo, sherm.. check it...
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm

The Dem's should go with Zell Miller for Pres. in 2008.

He's not a liberal extremists. He can work well with Republicans. And he is a southerner so he can probably bring some votes to the party that a new englander couldn't.

I don't expect the Dem's to do that, but he would do better than Hillary Clinton would.

On the other hand, it will be interesting to see if the Republicans do not alienate the base that got Bush re-elected by nominating someone such as Guiliani or Pitaki.

One good thing Ashcroft will be going out, but who will replace him? Mitch Bainwall?

I'll miss Ashcroft. I was betting on the snakes.

And, I don't think God speaks to Bush. I think God is mad at Dubya AND Jeb.
Look at what he did to Florida...wasn't it FOUR storms right after another? Does he need locusts, plagues, and angels killing the firstborn to get a hint?

I think God is giving Bush the silent treatment.

"In 1992 I owned a little pizza parlor and had a sales rep who was a vicous conservitive lackey who did nothing but insult and slander Clinton and Perot. (I was leaning toward Perot at the time) He made me so sick he was one of the reasons I went democratic that year. Clinton never won a majority of the popular vote yet Liberals everywhere claimed a mandate. "
?????????????????????
What does "vicous conservitive" mean?

I've looked in all the dictionaries online, and all the physical dictionaries in my library, and not one has either word.

Is "vicous" like "viscous" meaning slimy and resistant to flow? And, the closest I could find to conservitive, was conservative, but that doesn't haven't anything to do with flow rate or texture.

Of course, me being the Spelling Nazi I usually am, sorry for trying to get people to adhere to some common rules of spelling. I am just confused about these viscous conservatives. I guess

Here's the definition of viscous-
Viscous (a.) Adhesive or sticky, and having a ropy or glutinous
consistency; viscid; glutinous; clammy; tenacious; as, a viscous juice.....

Come to think of it...by that definition, BUSH IS A VISCOUS CONSERVATIVE!

Thanks Comp...I have a new description of him for my blogs...the blogs that we are now calling MORE CHILDISH DRIVEL...the favorite of Compmore
Bush is viscous, he doesn't seem to flow well to me.

code your mindless word games shows how childish you really are. I've lost all respect for you to speak intellegently.

'Code, hats off to you; that was clever!
("Bush is viscous; he doesn't seem to flow very well")

"Before you say anything there is no PROOF Bush won."

no proof Kerry WOULD HAVE won either.

I don't know who won, but I know who lost. (We did!)

Sad, but true.

And, perhaps not only us; I wouldn't be surprised if -- in the long run -- the whole NATION loses.