Brain scanning is moving rapidly beyond diseases to measuring how we react to religious experiences, racial prejudice, even Coke versus Pepsi. This election season, some scientists are trying to find out whether the technology can help political consultants get inside voters' heads more effectively than focus groups or polls.

Already, the scientists are predicting that brain scanning -- known as functional magnetic resonance imaging, or fMRI -- will be a campaign staple four years from now, despite ethical concerns about "neuromarketing."

Brain scans measure blood flow. When brain cells start firing in a part of the brain that governs a particular emotion or activity, they need more oxygen, which is carried by the blood. During an fMRI, active regions of the brain can be seen lighting up on a computer monitor.

URL http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1099061953555_21?hub=SciTech

Then they'll know precisely what lies to tell us.

the amazing Carnac will now devine who on this site will respond to this thread and what they'll say................................................................ummmmmmm

Unfortunately, Politicians are immune to brain scans. Can't have one without one.

LOL

We must not misunderestimate the power of subliminable.

I always thought their brains were different and they couldn't be reached through reason.
Conservatives, I mean.

I throw all extremists (including liberals) in that

Since when are liberals extremists (bristle, bristle)?

when conservities became extremists. gotta give equal time

Read my lips....

No guys, it's just the conservatives. The liberals are a good and misunderstood people.

Liberals are only misunderstood by conservatives because conservatives have brain problems.
Sherm, I keed.

sherm you're right. there are no extremists on the liberal side. it's all the conservitives. wish we could wave a magic wand and all of the conservitives would disapear and this country would be a peace and full of prosperity. the military could be disbanded and all other countries would be our friends. we can spend our days frolicling in the meadows smelling flowers and basking in the sun knowing that those evil conservitives no longer have control of our lives

Now you got the idea, comp!

I'm glad we got this settled. If only the we could tell the whole world: The liberals hold the key to all that is good.

Wow. At least I'm willing to say that extremes are bad, no matter what side you're talking about. To be liberal is one thing. To say "liberals are better" is completely different. Throw common sense to the wind. There's no time for thought. Make the most of today, and be a grade A moron. All it takes is a little closed-mindedness, some predjudice way deep down inside, a touch of stupidity, and a sprinkling of distorted reality.

God bless the liberals. I now understand all the complaining about this two party system. There's a 50% chance that the conservative party will win. When will we rid our nation of this cancer?

sherm I hope you know I was being sarcastic. to the liberals on this site I'm a right winger. to the extremes on the other side, I'm a bleeding heart. kinda makes me warm inside knowing I'm not blinded by idealogy

And in other news; Osama Bin Laden makes pitch for US to dump Bush (I am NOT joking on this). I kept expecting to see Bush come on at the end saying, "I'm George Bush and I approve of this ad."

So those jokes about a vote for Kerry being a vote for Osama are no longer jokes but fact.

Tnen to top it off was the announcement of the formation of a new music duo combining a established American singer and Islamic music
...................................................................................

Sunni and Cher!!

Erm...
You mean the Osama bin Laden video that was released recently where Osama discusses how no matter who you choose for president they won't protect you,and that if you want to be defended you must defend yourself?
That didn't really strike me as saying that "a vote for Kerry is a vote for Osama" type of thing.

I know comp

Got that right, pacmandude32;however, according to this site
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/EC3AC145-96B2-4858-AE3D-63FDE0B59D69.htm
The Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades, which claims to act on behalf of al-Qaida, says, "A word for the foolish Bush. We are very keen that you do not lose in the forthcoming elections as we know very well that any big attack can bring down your government and this is what we do not want.

"We cannot get anyone who is more foolish than you, who deals with matters with force instead of wisdom and diplomacy.

"Your stupidity and religious extremism is what we want as our people will not awaken from their deep sleep except when there is an enemy.

"Kerry will kill our nation while it sleeps because he and the Democrats have the cunning to embellish blasphemy and present it to the Arab and Muslim nation as civilisation.

"Because of this we desire you [Bush] to be elected."

Check it out....before you vote.

Btw, is there something in the Conservative by-laws that you must lose your sense of humor forever, or what? You guys are awfully defensive these days, aren't you?

So what are you trying to say ShadowMom? Do you HONESTLY believe this bullshit?!?!?!

I check out nothing that guy says before I vote.

"We cannot get anyone who is more foolish than you, who deals with matters with force instead of wisdom and diplomacy. "

oh really? may I remind them, they fired the first shot.

I'd bet dollars to pesos that the piece was written by someone at Al Jazeera and not any terrorist. Well I should change that a but..... Al Jazeera IS a terrorist group.

Wait---so you guys believe Osama, but not this other group? I'm not saying you should believe either one. And you definitely shouldn't vote based on what any terrorist says. I AM saying you can find all kinds of nonsense if you look for it. Just don't believe everything you read. And I wasn't kidding about the sense of humor. You could use an attitude adjustment for sure.

I've always said since I was a wee one. When someone good enough comes along and offers me up an attitude adjustment I may just have to oblige. It's been 31 years now and it has yet to happen. The ONLY attitude adjustment I will accept is when it's my time to stand a be judged.

I personally dont believe ANY of them. Not Al Jazeera, Bin Laden, the Falujah bunch. ANY of them because their time will come. I just want it to come under someone who has the stones to actually KILL them (Bush) instead of "bringing them to justice and putting them on trial."

You mean, kill them all and let God sort them out? How American of you.

Exactly! You think any of them deserve to live? How sweet!

You mean all the children who will also be killed? Yes. They do. And you forget who is supposed to be the good guys. We are supposed to be better than the terrorists are. We are supposed to care who we kill and how we decide that is what makes us different. Remember?

And you think we DONT care who we kill??? You really are a sheep. If you think for one second that we go around arbitrarily shooting anyone that looks arab than the whole middle east would have ceased to exist on September 12, 2001. You think Bin Laden deserves a "fair trial?" If you do I would rather see you go hug a tree than own a computer. What about the nut who is sawing off people's heads over there? You think he needs a fair trial??? Is THAT justice to you???

My next class is coming in shortly. I will DEFINATELY check back to see what your rebuttal is Shadowmom. I can hardly wait to see what you have thought up.

Don't be absurd. If you think I should go hug a tree, that's not a bad thing to do. It doesn't hurt anyone else.

"Oh really? may I remind them, they fired the first shot."

You probably just set off everyone's "conservative detector."

No comp, it was us who fired the first shot by not being sensitive to their lifestyle.. or some shit

bin Laden doesn't deserve a fair trial. Are we actually discussing this? He's not American, first of all. That's OUR right, not his. Plus he attacked our lifestyle. In the most horrifying way possible, he declared himself ineligible. Not only by not being a citizen, but by condemning the way we live. Fine. He gets no trial. Yes, kill him. It's not that hard to fathom.

Nobody disputes he ought to die. Nobody disputes the fact that he's evil, the terrorists are all evil, Sadam is evil, but all of the Iraqis are NOT evil. So? You're not talking about justice, you're talking about revenge. And you don't seem to care how many other people you hurt in the process. Now, I'm going to go hug my tree. Sherm, and SSS, have fun. I wish my world were as black and white as yours. Life would be simpler.

More likely, the Osama tape was a lame attempt to affect the US elections in a manner similar to the Madrid bus bombings affected the Spanish election. The idea being that should Kerry be elected, then he will pull a cut and run on the Iraqi government like we did to the South Vietnamese government in 1973 and the fall of Saigon in 1975. Personally, I would rather not got back to the days of the Clinton administration where Al Qaeda bombed the African embassies and got away with it, badly damaged the USS Cole and got away with it, and throwing away a chance to get Bin Laden following the first World Trade Center Bombing because they were afraid it would inflame Arab opinions.

ShadowMom: the first post was an observation that truth is stranger than fiction and I'm not telling you hug a tree.
You are right not all Iraqis are evil. In fact, while the nightly news trumpets the thousand American dead, they make no mention of the Iraqis who have been killed by insurgents or Jihadists. By deposing Sadaam Hussein, the United States has accepted responsability for ensuring that a stable Iraqi government is in place beforfe we leave so we don't have a repeat of Afghanistan following the Soviet pullout.

Also, the world is not black and white, but there are evil people out there. Sadaam Hussein was an evil man who had started two foreign wars (Iran 1980, Kuwait 1991), used poison gas against another nation in wartime for the first time since 1918 (Iran-Iraq War and Kurds), and the ONLY reason he did not have nuclear weapons was a raid on his nuclear reactor by the Israeli Air Force in 1980. France, Russia, and China were pressing for the ending of sanctions against the Iraqi government and odds are they would have been lifted. Does anybody truly believe Sadaam would not have restarted his nuclear weapons program and rebuilt his army once the sanctions were lifted? Iraq following the Desert Storm was in a similar situation as Weimar Germany following the first World War. The only difference was this Hitler figure was already in control and didn't need to take over.

Mike, my first post was a simple observation that there are two sides to every story--but some people here believe there is one side--the one they believe. Thank you for a polite response. Now back to my tree, with my 4 unopened bags of trick-or-treat candy. Happy Halloween, Mike!!

Shadowmom: And I return the compliment. I do get sick and tired of the people who believe that their view is the only view and that anybody who says otherwise is a clueless bufoon. Can't we have some reasonable debate without resorting to the name calling?

SSS has a class? I hope he's not a teacher.

Scary, huh? He better learn to spell. DEFINATELY.

The problem is that on this site where it is obvious where the majority leans you cannot dare voice a different opinion without drawing the ire of the majority more than half the time. I am SHOCKED that I haven't been blasted from every direction. Especially from Codewarrior's possee.

Shadowmom you have to understand that when you insinuiate that the US doesn't care who they kill. "Sadam is evil, but all of the Iraqis are NOT evil. " Oh and this one. "You're not talking about justice, you're talking about revenge." What did Bush say after the WTC attacks? Somewhere along the lines of no matter where they go we will hunt them down?? What were his approval ratings after that? 80% or som eother ungodly number? Then when the Iraq saber rattling started and people kept saying "This war is for oil!!!! " Clue for all of you "No Blood for Oil" quacks! WHY IS OUR GAS CONTINUALLY GOING UP?!?!?! Oh of course.... Bush's buddies are hoarding all the oil in their garages for a rainy day.

What's wrong with revenge? How many of our people have to die before it's ok to hit back? We're at 2700+ of our innocents and 1100+ soldiers. Did Bush screw up royally on his reasons for going into Iraq? You betcha he did. ROYALLY! We're there now and that's that. People are getting their heads chopped off left and right. Innocent people are dying and I haven't heard a thing about any of OUR people blowing themselves up in crowds of people.

So Shadowmom. Is my world black and white? The WORLD IS black and white. Good and bad. Right and wrong. LIFE is black and white.

Actually I do have a class. I was voted DODDS Teacher of the year last year as well. If the only thing you can do is go after someone's typos you really are as pathetic as I thought you were.

Why is that Carla? Because I DARE to have different views from you? Because I lean right instead of left. You pathetic worm. You bitch that people dont look at both sides of a story yet you have a comment like that? I'm a damned fine teacher. I left kids decide for themselves. I dont try to brainwash them like so many parents of my kids try to do. Have any kids Carla? I'll pray for them.

Oooohhhh another obvious typo.

I left kids decide

Sorry you typo nazi's. Should have read I LET kids decide.

"Sherm, and SSS, have fun. I wish my world were as black and white as yours. Life would be simpler."

There's a reason I asked if I was misunderstanding something; and it's because I had a feeling I might be. I agree with you. Not all Iraqi's should die. Osama should. And terrorists and their supporters should. Don't group me with that kid (adult.. sorry, whatever he is). Life is anything but black and white.

"I was voted DODDS Teacher of the year last year as well."

You remind me of a teacher I had one. He was a hippy who spouted off nonsensical crap all the time and condemned those who thought he'd lost his mind by calling them intolorant.

anyway, I'm staying out of this one from here forward, and I refuse to fix my typo

Yeah a 31 year old hippy. Try redneck.

No, because you are ignorant and it's scary that you are allowed to interact with impresesionable minds.

gotta get out the bifocals.
impressionable.
Eeeuuwww, rednecks, really dumb.

Please don't pray for me. Gives me the heebie jeebies.

If we were "typo nazi's," you'd be dead in the water. I don't know what "DODDS Teacher of the year" is, but you would not be teaching my child. You are so full of hate, you couldn't teach anything objectively. And if you think you are objective, you better examine your motives a little more closely. You don't "lean" to the right, you fell over there and couldn't get back up. Stay down until you grow up and realize the U.S. is not the ONLY country in the world, and you have to have respect for all the other cultures, whether you agree with them or not.
The world is NOT black and white, and it never was, unless you are one of those people who was never ever wrong. And I never met a person who never made a mistake. "Good" and "bad" are also subjective terms. And I obviously don't live my life by your lights. Therefore, I must be "bad." Good. You're narrow-minded, bigoted, and self-righteous. And I doubt that you're a "fine teacher" of anything--except bigotry and hate. Do YOU have any kids? I don't pray--my bad. But I'll be thinking of them, and hoping you don't influence them very much.

Scary because I dare think differently from you and refuse to drink the liberal koolaid that people on this site try to serve up daily.

When I teach my classes I am more than fair. I let kids decide for themselves when we debate things like politics and the Iraq war. I dont close down their arguments like some of my ultra liberal co-workers like to do. I am constantly requested by parents to have their kids in my classes. I take pride in that.

I will continue to give another side to the BS that is spewed on this site because it USED to be one of my favorites to visit. Hopefully when the post election lawsuits are over it will go back to what I used to like about it.

Department of Defense Dependent Schools. Tell me ONE THING I have said that is bigoted genius. You are a prime example with what is wrong with the world. People go against your beliefs and all of a sudden they're hate filled and bigoted. You pathetic little person. You dont even know the meaning of the word hate to be throwing it around.

Did you or did you not say you're a redneck? We already know you're ignorant. Being a teacher isn't a free pass. You would not be teaching my daughter, you arrogant sonofabitch. You wouldn't be teaching my daughter because she's already smarter than you. She can spell, and she can think. You don't lean to the right; you fell over and can't get up. The world is not black and white, and it never was, except for people who never made a mistake. I never met a person who didn't make a mistake, only people who refused to admit they made a mistake. You appear to be one of those.
You seem to think by using terms like "liberal koolaid," "pathetic little person," and "pathetic worm" you look a whole lot smarter than the rest of us. You just look pretty damn stupid. And you should be barred from teaching children anything. Tolerance for others, and for other cultures, should be a requirement for ALL teachers; if you can't see that the world is getting smaller, you need to get a new job, mister.

That's what's wrong with you. You live with this stereotype that rednecks are bigoted. That's sorry. That is really sorry. Do you refer to black people as "N-Word?" I love it when people attack someone because of their southern heritage. If southern people were so ignorant and stupid than why is it that the country has seen fit to elect people like George Bush, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, and countless others to the highest office in the land? The only bigoted person in this exchange is you Shadowmom. So now I'm not tolerant of other cultures? Take a deep breath. Sleep on it. Then come back and read my posts again. I’m not tolerant of people who attack others simply because they don’t think the way they do. That’s ignorant. I voice it on here EXACTLY the way I see it happening.

Again going after typos? I read another post here not too long ago by a guy calling himself StinkMonkey. I think it said something like “People who go after someone’s typos prove they have nothing to offer.” You’ve proven that with every response you have written Shadow. Again, please point out where I have said ANYTHING bigoted or non tolerant of other people’s cultures.

It's 2:30pm in my neck of the woods. (Like that redneck referance??) I'll check back here after supper (Like that one ShadowMom?) to see what other mindless dribble you have offered up.

You might want to take your attitude adjustment, dumbass. You have me on the side of two old ladies who don't even like me (just kidding, old ladies You have the nerve to call them pathetic little worms while you spam the board with crap that's backed up by nothing else than your assertion that you're a fantastic f'ing teacher. Congratulations. Nobody cares.

Maybe we have a misunderstanding here--exactly what do you mean by redneck? I live in south Florida, I was born in Kentucky--how much more southern do I need to be? But if someone calls me a redneck, I consider it an insult--don't you? And I defy you to find one racist remark I have ever made.

Why are typos important? You want to teach children? How can you teach them if you can't even type a short post without a spelling error or a grammatical error? If you weren't a teacher, it wouldn't matter, but you say you are...so it does matter.
Elections? I don't care where they come from--it's what they do.

Thank you, Sherm, I'm not used to being called an old lady, but if the shoe fits....Maybe the teacher should try it on. I re-assert this point---"DDOS" means less than nothing to me. You can't spell, your grammar sucks, you can't teach my daughter. Get a new job.

You act like an idiot then tell everyone you're a redneck. You just plant the bait, begging them to use it against you. When they do, you use it to discredit them and distract the audience from the fact that you're an idiot to begin with. The people who make their voices heard the loudest are usually the people most full of BS. And carla and shadow mom have said less than anyone else taking part.

It's almost 1 am in MY neck of the woods--and I'm going to sleep, so I can take my daughter to school, where a REAL teacher will TEACH her. Don't pull that southern shit on me, you're no more southern than me, just more redneck. Print it on a sticker, put it on your shirt, your pickup truck, your dog. I don't care. But your narrowminded way of thinking only hurts you.

'Night, Sherm, sleep tight.

Nighty night =)

Sharp I appreciate your quoting me. I do believe that anyone who attacks another's typing skills have nothing to offer. I don't care if you're a teacher, priest, politician, or mother. I have no doubt you're a fine teacher Sharp. I have alot of the same beliefs as you and refuse to drink the koolaid that some people try to serve up.

Now onto other things; ShadowMom you can't have things both ways. You called him a bigot just because he called himself a redneck. That means you think redneck is a racist remark right? Oh but it's ok since you were born in Kentucky. Huh?

The thing that looks to have set this off is when you quoted something written on the Al Jazeera website and wanted people to check it out before they vote. Maybe you can clarify what your intentions were in that post. I would certainly like to know. Then you hinted that American soldiers don’t care who they kill in order to get the terrorists in Iraq. I agree with Sharp. If that was the case then it’s obvious that the entire middle east would have been wiped off the planet on 9/12/01.

In this whole argument I’d say Sharp by a slim margin. His mannerism’s and tactics were a bit awkward but he got his points across. Even if he can’t type for shit is till understood what he was trying to say. I know you could as well Shadow, or you wouldn’t have responded to him every time. So your point on attacking his typos?

Sherm, as a third person looking in on the whole argument and as much as I have to say it, Sharp was the one who handed out the attitude adjustments. Again just my opinion. Please continue reaming one another.

Now I better point out my typos. Just to make sure people who cant read something and figure out what it says have some problems.

Even if he can’t type for shit is till understood what he was trying to say.

Should have read "I still understood"

lol..

It's ok, I won't attack you for them

I didn't even consider what he had to say. I just think it's amazing that his fine teaching abilities (according to him) are enough justification for everything. Oh well.

If he really is a teacher who lets kids decide for themselves on issues than I say we need more of them. To me it looks like he is using this site to vent some frustration. Hey I have no problem with that. I've been guilty of doing the same thing from time to time.

It's really a "no-brainer".

fair enough.

One of the things that have been going through my head today-SINCE we seem to be off the topic that started the thread-is that The "Terrorists" ,that did the shame-full act un N.Y. city on Sept 11 managed to erase the lives of 3,000 U.S. citizens.And our,the United States-has snuffed out an etimated 73,000 to 100,000 Iraq citizens as payback.
I understand that the religious right reads their Bible faithfully and carefully.And that an Eye for an Eye might just be a parable ,not an actual directive on how to settle things up.But Maybe we have shown the World who we are and how tough we really can be?

I think you have a point. That's a point the US is trying to make in this war. That's what shock & awe was supposed to accomplish. If it wasn't for the moron media, it would have been a lot more shocking. Where did you get the 73-100k figures?

The 100k came off the public new channel Saturday,and then Sunday a correction by the "established" news media appeared on the front page of the local area correcting "the soft on terrorism " community to the number of 73k.
At first I though the public commentary piece was retorization of the presidential race issue.But when the conservative media stepped in to chide the "liberals" about their inaccurate counts as to dead and maimed-I was reminded that sometimes it must just be so easy to provoke the ULTRA-neo conservatives into showing how absurd [at best] the war is.Not that I thing it is funny-because they are usually very carfully controlling about their propaganda,uh er-spin,uh-er-TRUTH.

I had'nt realized that the numbers were so high.But that wasn't entirely my point.The neoconservative base claims the right to do what they have been doing for several different reasons.One among them is that they have direction given to them through the bible.Which thety claim is not a book of like isims-but actual facts and numbers,people places things.Not just a simily or not to be taken metaphorically.The 10 commandment for instance spelled out a like for exchange to exact punishment in order to give a sense of fairness to the world.
I'll stop here as I don't know how far I can take this thread in this direction.

BTW if you do a search on GOOGLE you can find several articles about the 100,000 dead.It was first "apparently" published by a British-our allies- newspaper.
........."According to The Lancet, the respected British medical journal, the inavsion forces (mainly the US air force) killed at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians (most reportedly killed being women and children). This is significantly higher than previous estimates, based on media reports, of up to 16,000. Little wonder the US forces announced that it would not bother counting the numbers it killed -- during and after the invasion.."

A little more reasearch...An article date June 2003..
"...June 12th 2003
Executive Summary
Overview and key conclusions
At the outset of the Iraq War, Iraq Body Count was providing the only systematic estimates of civilian casualties. Now, 15 different projects are at varying stages of completion. Press reports increasingly cite data from more than one project, and critical comparisons are becoming necessary.
This article critically reviews all projects that have made their existence known publicly, and summarises key project details in tabular form.
Taken together, the projects reinforce rather than contradict one another and provide converging evidence that current estimates putting the number of civilians killed at significantly above 5,000 are well-founded...."

How come they keep saying "drink the koolaid" as if it were a mantra? Is that a Rush Limbaugh thing? It's rather a tiresome metaphor.

Teachers are patient, smart and tolerant. SSSharp's posts have shown that he is none of these things. Rather, the tone reflects a mean, nasty, and vindictive person (and wifebeater!). Unless of course SSSharp is a woman with PMS -- then it would all make sense

So he's a military person -- in Germany? From what I've heard the military dependents aren't that bright anyway. Plus I'm sure they have a vested interested in spouting military rhetoric.

ShadowMom, you are one of my heroes!
Sherm, thanks for being so gallant.

Carla, Here's a quote from SSSharp (Date: October 29, 2004 @ 1:38 AM)
on another thread:
"As far as people in the tech industry. I was in that field as a support manager for Intuit in 2000. Saw the writing on the wall and took education classes and got my certification. Took a bit and added some to my student loans but I did it and so can you. It doesn't matter how much you make ANYONE can get un-subsadized loans. Apply for Department of Defence Dependent Schools and wait your turn to be called. Once you're in the system you are in. Enjoy life overseas and retire rich. That's the best advice I can give."

Now there's a dedicated teacher.
He's living off the American taxpayer.

carla -- "Drink the koolaid" is a reference to Jim Jones and the People's Temple, wherein he poisoned his entire enclave with cyanide-laced koolaid. They knew what it was and drank willingly.

Yes, George, I know that -- but how is it that these right-wingers keep using it? Why did they appropriate the mtaphor?

It just means a blind following of a leader without considering the logic. Why do they use it? Catchphrases are easier to remember than actual facts.

On October 29, 2004 The New York Times reported the conservative estimate of Iraqis killed since our invasion at 100,000, half of them women and children killed in airstrikes. 100,000 Iraqis is one third the number of civilians Saddam Hussein is accused of killing in a period of 22 years.

I know what it means --but I wonder why they are stuck on that phrase.
We think they are blind followers and we don't say, hey you're drinking the Koolaid.
Is it because we can better express ourselves, or see nuances?
Or did Rush Limbaugh say it and they've picked up on it and now say it over and over ad nauseum.

This new breed of conservatism also contains a high quotient of anti-intellectualism, with an oversized portion of religious zealotry thrown in.

So the rhetorical concentration is on intangibles and catchphrases laden with metaphor. Symbolism and platitudes to combat the fearsome enemy that has always been waiting to kill us.

In the 60s, they had us hide under our desks at school in a practice run of how to die in a nuclear attack. Sometimes they'd line us up in alphabetical order, presumably to make it easier to identify the little piles of ash.

Before that, it was the fucking Communists IN OUR COUNTRY, which was preceded by the Evil Nazis...

...back to when we drove out that overbearing British Army. The dumbasses would wear red and march in a straight line.

But there is always a threat. We are always supposed to be scared. I guess koolaid is scary, if you're Rush Limbaugh, or maybe Jim Griffin.

I think it just makes it easier for Dubya to remember what he's supposed to say. Even he can remember 3-4 words at a time. Without his wire, too. And the same goes for these people. Once they find a nifty little catch-phrase, they run it into the ground. Btw, koolaid is scary.

I don't appreciate people thinking of 'redneck' as a derogatory term. I personally see it as a very positive label.

I just wish that other minorities would take words that describe them as positive as well.
Imagine if the 'n-word' were known as a positive identifier?

Yeah, I bask in being a wop.
NOT.

I don't think all southerners are rednecks. It's a subset.

Too much koolaid.

"I don't appreciate people thinking of 'redneck' as a derogatory term. I personally see it as a very positive label. "

I have to chuckle at this one. I know many places where the term redneck is embraced with pride. It is a matter of personal interpertation as to what the term means.

Same with being a southerner. Used to tease folks that if they were born north of I-10 they were a Yankee, just to see the reaction the statement brought. Got everything from outrageous statements to weird looks, again a personal interpertation of what the term meant had everything to do with the responce I recieved.

There is not one poster here who doesn't have points that I don't see as positive statements and most here have responces I certainly don't agree with. My personal interpertation and definations influance that. I suspect that I am no different than anyone else here in that.

Only one I going to throw rocks at for spelling are those that use eubonics (or whatever the latest term is) to say whats on their mind. If I got to decrypt the message to make sense of it, then it is unlikely I will take the time to do so. No matter how good of points such a person might have, they appear to be uneducated and the logic that follows that is they don't have a valid point of view. (Yes, I know that is stereotyping but can't help it.)

The name calling doesn't do anyone any good. Don't care which side of the fence you are on, including the middle.

Everyone of you feels the way you do for a reason. I am not the one to say this person has a valid for it. Life marks us as we progress along its path. Those marks influance how we see the world from our eyes, from that point on.

Hopefully the world is large enough that we can agree to disagree and keep on trucking.

For my own point of view, I believe we made a serious mistake in Iraq. We stayed. The Iraq situtation is another Vietman waiting for an oppurtunity. As long as our soldiers were not accessable to the nutcases over there, they had no target other than the rare circumstance such as the WTC. Do understand, I am not condoning the the WTC incident as a valid responce to a beef.

We got our hands dirty when the Russians were in Afganistan. That was their Vietman. Those folks have a beef with us for a reason. The terrorism is not an acceptable way to bring that beef back to the one you have a problem with. Terrorism is used because they are a smaller group and have no way to fight in the open or settle this.

I think we can all agree that it is a poor way to bring attention to the subject of a beef. Europe has dealt with the terrorism far longer than we have. They won't give in and refuse to bow down to the terror demands.

Here we are becoming a prision state. Locking access to doors that once were our hallmarks to say, "This is what freedom is." It is not pleasent to see this happen to a country I love. Whether I like it or not, my country is changing; and not for the best.

I don't have the answers, wished I did. I do know what I don't like and I see more of that as the days progress.

The article above can have no good impact on our lives in the long haul. For now it is labratory equipment. Given enough desire and government support it could be a hand held device within a short time. You think Kerry's detractors are making hay now with a candidate that they say can't make up his mind which way to hold a position? Wait till something like this is out...

gallant is my middle name.

I agree.
It does seem that most of the population in the States,seems to think that since we "declaired" war-gave advance notice that we are not terrorists ourselves.

I should be more clear.What I'm trying to say is that I do see and agree with many points taht I read expressed here.But I caution myself by telling myself to not letting "I agree" become a place holder for thinking.
Meaning that just because I've come to an apparent conglusion on a subject does-not give me the right to stop thinkiung about it and re verifying if Ive come to the correct visualization on the matter.

clickplay,

That can't even be discussed until people admit that killing civilians accidentily is different than targeting civilians. The US Military is not terrorists and neither is our government. Idiots, yes. But not terrorists. There's a difference. Just because a bomb hits a house full of children in Iraq doesn't mean it was American terrorism.

...So terrorism is on purpose, and accidental is ..well, accidental?

If we the American people have been unwilling to separate ourselves from the 3,000 WTC
victims,what would make us believe that they will be willing to let 100,000 of their own
die without some sort of retaliation?
Every day we are in Iraq, we put our country in the position of giving Iraqi activists
[insurgents] the wherewithall to stir-up their general population.It is very easy for them
to "blend" it all together and make it seem to their fellow patriots seem like we, the U.S.
are targeting them .Does this sound familiar?
They take it very personal.Does this sound familiar?
Power is a very dangerous thing in the wrong hands.The reactionary statements that continue
to make inroads to the American subconscience are the result of individuals needing to exer-
size some sort of influence into their surroundings.The need is gauged by the amount of power
not present in their own lives-real or imagined.

"What would make us believe that they will be willing to let 100,000 of their own
die without some sort of retaliation?"

Was that directed towards me? Nothing should make us think that. They wouldn't let that happen. The only point (and nothing else) that I was trying to make was .. well just read my post again.

"..So terrorism is on purpose, and accidental is ..well, accidental?"

Well.. yeah. But that wasn't my point. I don't think terrorism can be accidental, lol. I'm just saying that some people say what we're doing in Iraq is terrorism when it's nothing like that. Maybe it's WORSE than terrorism, I don't know. But that isn't my point. My point is just that it's not terrorism. If that wasn't directed at me then sorry.

Not to try and stick up for anyone here. Carla you really should look up what an unsubsidized loan is before you open your mouth. Or should I say keyboard. Un-subsidized means you must pay the loans back. I personally take great offense to you insinuating that people who get unsubsidized loans are living off the American tax payers. That is how I got my college education because my parents refused to pay for my tuition. It has taught me responsibility in paying these loans back. I commend anyone who takes the time to research ways of getting a college education. Something you obviously have not done. Or maybe you had a rich mommy and daddy pay for you? With your ignorance level showing through I doubt you made it past middle school.

The - point,what's the point of all this frustration.
What I'm saying isn't directed at you "Sherm",I can't
even make it personal - after all I wouldn't even know
what you look like if I was to bump into you on the
street.I apologise for seeming to single you out,I
respect most of what I think I understand about your
philosphy on this.
What I was trying to put across for consideration,
is the situation has a great capability of being perceived
as an act of terrorism against the Iraqi's , which is bornout by the huge increase in insurgent activity.

What started this thread...."can help political consultants get inside voters' heads more effectively than focus groups or polls."
Read as... "so that propaganda can be more effective targeting the intended idealogy group"...Good or bad could depend on how paranoid one is.

Gee Stink Monkey, you ASSuME way too much.

What I meant was that SSS had a government job now, that we, as taxpayers support.

I'm 53, my loans are long gone, even the one from law school. I mostly had scholarships. They didn't have middle school when I grew up, it was parochial school through 8th grade.

You are a tad myopic, stinko.

That may have been the original article Clickplay but it looks to me what REALLY started this thread was ShadowMom hinting we should consider something on an Al Jazeera website before we cast our vote. That seems to be what set this thread off. Just my opinion though

No Carla you're a tad ignorant. Do you say that about ALL government workers? Maybe if you would have said that from the get go instead of attacking someone who had the fortitude to seek out ways for him to get educated and get a good paying job and live overseas. Look up what DODDS is. I did. Looks to me like the organization that handles the schools for ALL overseas military and DOD workers. So are they ALL bad for living off taxpayers as you say he's doing. I have no doubt that Sharp deserves a few jabs but please don't stoop to his level and just start throwing out insults without knowing the facts.

Talk about someone who doesn't know facts.
Black monkey kettle.

He got a government job and said he was set for life and would retire rich. Great attitude.

What's wrong with that Carla? WHAT on EARTH is wrong with that? Maybe DODDS has great retirement benefits. Shouldn't EVERYONE strive to get the best job they can find? My GOD lady, you really have blinders on don’t you? You're faulting a guy for gloating that he has the potential to retire rich. No Carla you're the one with the messed up attitude. I think your motives lay a bit deeper. You hate the guy because his views differ greatly from yours and he had the gumption to express them in ways you don't agree with.

Sherm, you tell him what' wrong with that.
The government dole and all that.
And, lucky you, you've been replaced in my pantheon.

Please do tell me what's wrong with someone getting a good government job teaching military kids. Please do tell. I can HARDLY wait to read this.

It seemed to me that "SSS" was braging that he didn't have to live here in the U.S as us patriots do-he gets the "good life" overseas's?

Oooh, I get to frustrate monkey boy -- going to have dinner.

What else.."I dont try to brainwash them like so many parents of my kids try to do. Have any kids Carla? I'll pray for them."
Now I'm confused again.I thought that Right wingers WANTED control over THEIR own kids. So is it just their kids or theirs and someone elses?

Your ignorance is what frustrates me Carla. Truly.

Brain scans may unlock candidates' appeal.
Wonder what the scan of this thread would show......

Carla: Last night I stood up for Shadowmom against SSSharp's posts because she did have valid points. Now, saying that military dependents are not bright is comparable to saying that all African American men who attend inner city schools are future gangbangers and crack heads. (They aren't if you go by some of the ones I taught in the Birmingham City Schools a few years ago. Some of those students could stand up against the best private school attendies.) Another analogy would be saying that all young female public school teachers are nymphos who can't wait to get laid by their students because of the teacher in Florida who had sex with her 14 year old student.

We really need to get beyond the name calling and denegrating groups of people on the basis of a few of their members. It does not convince the other of the correctness of your argument and only incites knee jerk reactions from the other side. I have seen too much of this shouting at each other from Bush haters and Bush lovers.

Can't we have a good debate without sinking into the sewers?

So now people are going to attack me because I dared to enlighten myself and get loans to pay for my schooling. Nice. No wait, just read that I’m being faulted for getting a government job with pretty nice benefits. Even better.

@ShadowMom – Maybe my methods of voicing my differing opinions were not the best. Even for an internet chat board. I am an extremely outspoken person when it comes to my beliefs and the way I think people should be. To me it looked like you wanted people to actually consider something written on a terrorist news network (Al Jazeera) before they cast their vote for president. To ME (MY OPINION) that is ignorant beyond belief. I teach my students to think for themselves and form their own opinions in life. Maybe I should spread that philosophy and be more tolerant of people’s views online. That I will concede.

@Carla - You are without a shadow of a doubt the most ignorant, lowlife, rotten piece of trash surfing this website. You jealous I have a job that provides me free housing, free utilities, GREAT retirement, mediocre medical, and a wage 40% higher what I would have received in the States???? You have your beliefs and I will TRY to respect those. No, just read you based your comments on the fact that I have a government job. Great reasoning. Sounds like Stink busted you and you backtracked like a good extremist liberal does.

@Stink – Appreciate the words in my favor. Glad someone READ my comments before turning on their ignorant switch.

@clickplay – And you are??? And now I’m not a patriot because I live overseas. You really are a dumbass sheep following the majority.

I had the night to sleep over things. I will concede that I MAY have gone about things in an unorthodox manner with getting personal with a few of my comments. The majority of this site leans FAR left. Things you shouldn’t talk about are religion and politics. The operator of this site obviously knows what they’re doing with so many political articles being posted. Good for business the more traffic that this site gets right? I look forward to when the election lawsuits are settled and this site goes back to it’s mission statement. Wait….. If Bush gets re-elected I doubt that will happen.

My plate is full for the rest of the day. Can’t wait to see what kind of dribble Carla spews out next.

Just for the record that last comment is addressed to both Carla and SSSharp. Your arguments are more effective without the name calling.

*lets out a stangled cry and bangs head in wall*

Can't we lay off the name calling and have a substantive debate?

He started it ~~~~
His saying he didn't think I finished middle school.
Middle school! Hmph!

I'm just passing along what I heard from someone who was a librarian for one of the schools in Germany. She was not impressed with the kids.

But, I'm sorry for the stereotyping. I'm sure there are bright students in the bunch.

"Carla - You are without a shadow of a doubt the most ignorant, lowlife, rotten piece of trash surfing this website"

And you teach students with that mouth? Real nice example you're setting.

Are you drunk now?

No now Mike she had those coming. Lets be fair here. She's had her say now he's had his. I still would like to know what's so bad about having a government job but I think it's more for the entertainment factor.

I went back and read Sharp's comments and ignored the namecalling Mike. I'm curious as to why you don't think he had any good points. (Attempting to start a good debate)

Do you get off on conflict Carla? Are you drunk now? I'm REALLY starting to side with Sharp now. Jesus lady you are a piece of work.

You two really have anger management problems.

You obviously have absolutely nothing to offer this conversation. You have yet to tell me why having a government job is so bad. Probably the reason is you have nothing to offer. I will be the bigger person now and not respond to any future comments that you make in this thread. There's not an ounce of anger that has consumed any of my posts. It's more disbelief. Disbelief that someone could be so blind. I have no doubt you'll respond with something witty and middle schoolish. Fine. Take your best shot. I'm through with you.

Hurray, the StinkMonkey is off my back.

Stinkmonkey: What I was referring to lastnight was in reference to there being shades of grey in the world in contrast to a black and white view. My response was that, she was right in that not everything is black and white but there are evil people who need to be taken care of. Hence, my posting about Sadaam Hussein.

What I'm really tired of is the back and forth name calling. I remember a past thread about being brainwashed by FOX News. MRoop had replied with a bunch of websites and the implication that he was right I was brainwashed by FOX News. Did that change my views, did that make me see Mroop's point of view as the correct one? Well lets say, I was reminded of an old joke that went

Two baloonists were floating across the country and got lost. Luckily, they spotted a man on a nearby hill and lowered the baloon to where they could ask the man where they were. The man looks up and says, "You are in a baloon floating fifty feet in the air." The first baloonist turns to the other and said, "That man must be a lawyer because everything he said was absolutely correct and totally useless."

That's how I felt about his post.

Not singling anyone out.
I know you are but what am I?
Na-na na-na boo-boo!
Enough already.

Now why am I getting flashbacks to an old Saturday Night Live where Dan Akroid turns to Jane Curtain and opens up with "Jane, you ignorant slut....."

LOL, that's Aykroyd, BTW. He spells it in a very mutant way. But that's OK (to quote Stuart Smalley).

Considering the amount of ribbing I hand out to my friends for their poor grammar and spelling, I stand corrected.

Forgive me, I'm only a poor history teacher.

However, I would like to on the record that come tommorrow, I will be pulling the lever for Bush. My main reason is that I am satisfied with the president's action by taking out the Taliban in Afghanistan 'Saddam Hussein no longer is part of the 'dictators out to get nuclear weapons club', and his general stance towards the terrorists in general.

I have serious reservations about John Kerry. His allegations to Congress that American servicemen were war criminals and the modern version of Genghis Khan are inflmmatory. My father served two tours in Nam as did two of my uncles and I resent the implication that they are murders. To me, that makes Kerry a traitor to those who were being held prisoner.

I am also not impressed with his record as a senator. His votes against every new weapon system, voting to cut the intelligence budget following the first Trade Center attack, and voting for the troops before voting against them do not impress me as being a strong leader.

In addition to being a public school teacher, I have been a commisioned officer in the USAF. My reserve commitment has just ended but looking at recent events, I would not be surprised to be called back on active duty. I am afraid, I do not respect the man as a leader and have serious problems with his policies. That is why I will be casting my vote for Bush.

Mike said: "Forgive me, I'm only a poor history teacher."
Too bad. SSSharp is a rich (free utilities and free housing) overseas "super" teacher. Speaking of history, Mike, I read this article about FDR: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6364551/site/newsweek/

What do you think?

"I can't even make it personal - after all I wouldn't even know what you look like if I was to bump into you on the street. I apologise for seeming to single you out"

clickplay,

I did not think you singled me out or made it personal. No worries. It's just that what you typed didn't seem, to me, to be all that related to what I asked I get what you were saying now. Nothing personal, we just weren't totally on the same page.

I guess I can see how it could be "percieved" as terrorism. By Iraqis who don't understand maybe. That's still a stretch though. But it's not terrorism no matter how you slice it.

Mike said: "I am also not impressed with his record as a senator. His votes against every new weapon system, voting to cut the intelligence budget following the first Trade Center attack, and voting for the troops before voting against them do not impress me as being a strong leader."

I read this today: "Kerry did oppose the list of weapons cited by Bush as a candidate for the Democratic nomination for the Senate in 1984, as then-President Reagan was pushing an enormous build-up in military spending. But the fact is that once elected, Kerry didn't actually vote against many of the weapons on that list (except to oppose the entire Pentagon budget in 3 years). Kerry cast specific votes mostly against expensive nuclear and strategic systems such as the Trident missile, B-2 bomber and "star wars" missile-defense systems. After the collapse of the Soviet Union even Republicans were for cutting spending on weapons: Bush's father and his secretary of defense Dick Cheney proposed a 30 percent reduction in Pentagon spending. Kerry has supported Pentagon budgets in 16 of his 19 years in office, including every annual budget from 1997 on."
http://factcheck.org/article298.html

And what's with this stupid stereotype that right wingers are religious?

I'm right and I think god is a goofy concept.

John Kerry is catholic, the most nazi-like of all the religions (trust me, i was raised catholic). And he's a democrat.

The extreme right maybe.. but someone above said simply "right wingers." That's not true. It's media bullshit. I don't know where else you could pick something like that up, so by default I'm calling it media bullshit.

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but if you read a story on CNN, the BBC, NY Times and Al-Jazeera, they are almost word for word identical. It's not media bullshit, it's bullshit media. Don't believe me? Try it.

"And what's with this stupid stereotype that right wingers are religious?"
Um, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, William Bennett, John Ashcroft, Orrin Hatch, G.W.Bush,...

so.... that's only 7 people. from my understanding there's a few more conservitives out there than that. If you'd like we can start on sterotyping liberals??

Comp, Sherm wanted to know where people got the "stereotype" that right wingers are religious. I just named some of the famous ones that came to mind. I think that Bush is aiming his rhetoric at religious groups who oppose homosexuality and abortion - conservative, religious, rightwingers who have changed the direction of the Republican Party.

hey, I'm an atheist conservative, with occasional liberal sympathies, we do exist.

Did anyone contemplate the original headline of this thread?

What if liberals and conservatives actually differed in brain structure?

That would explain why a member of one ideology has such a hard time relating to the other.

Personally, I doubt it's true, consider my own experience.

I came out of college a left-winger, only to become so cheesed out by my righteous, arrogant liberal friends it drove me to explore conservatism as a rebellious gesture, after working and maturing a little, the conservative mindset started making sense.

In 12 years I've become the political antithesis of my past self.

Did my brain change? And why does conservatism generally set in as we age? Is it wisdom or dementia?

"I think that Bush is aiming his rhetoric at religious groups who oppose homosexuality and abortion - conservative, religious, rightwingers..."

I agree, Lachatte. But again, I was not addressing that. I was addressing the fact that being right politically does not mean necessarily that a person is also religious.

JFK was a democrat.. catholic. John Kerry.. catholic. My best friend's mom.. democrat.. catholic. You can name some right, I can name some left. All my point is is that just because someone is right politically doesn't make them religious by default. However - what you said about Bush is true. I agree with that (i.e. not refuting it. Just saying that right wing doesn't mean religious).

"rightwingers who have changed the direction of the Republican Party."

And by "republican party" I assume you mean prominant republican figures. That's fine. Maybe that's what the other person meant too. But there's a stereotype going around that "rightists" are religious. It's simply not true. Prominant rights are..

When someone makes a generalization about "the right," that includes me and thus also includes me in the category of "religious" which blows the stereotype out of the water.

I hope the rambling covered all my bases. I agree with what you said, prominent repubs. are religious.. etc. But I'm not - So the stereotype is FALSE.

So to whoever uses it, stop, unless you're going to be more specific.

There... I'd say it all in a sentence if I could, but if I did.. well that's why I tried to cover all my bases here. Less time arguing that way.

Shoshidge -- maybe your personality (rebellious) reacted to your environment.
Maybe if you were with right wing folk, you may have turned against them.
Just a theory.

I don't agree that you get more conservative as you get older. Older people have more to lose and are maybe more careful; this might be interpreted as conservative.

Going to bed -- sweet dreams everyone.

I think you're right Carla, I feel within myself the capacity to be either side, it just depends on my social environment and the media that I am exposed to.

Most politically opinionated types I know define their politics against someone elses', they become left wing in reaction to a perceived dominating conservative dogma,(or right wing in the face of perceived liberal domination)

people do, however, become more conservative as they age, statistically i mean,(I know there are many raving white haired liberals out there).

I find the reasons for this to be fairly clear, older people become more resistant to and fearful of change, and the youthful drive to rebel against the establishment wanes.

Also, many old people get upset to see welfare programs give to people what they themselves had to work and sacrifice for.

And given the confrontation with one's mortality inherent in aging, older folks are more inclined to fall back on their religion for comfort and assurance.

"Mroop had replied with a bunch of websites and the implication that he was right I was brainwashed by FOX News."

The links I posted were to a study that showed the more you watch Fox News, the more ignorant you become. Just go to google and type in "Fox News more you watch less you know" and you should find it.

So did anyone watch "Rumsfeld's War" on Frontline last night? It was excellent. It showed how Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and their neocon asshole buddies battled the military leadership to take control of the war plans for Iraq. The military leaders wanted hundreds of thousands of soldiers to secure the peace after the war. Rumsfeld and crew only wanted 50K soldiers! The military leaders knew they would need more soldiers after the war then they need to win the war. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz said they were wrong.

Rumsfeld eventually won out with his persistence by wearing down Tommy Franks and forcing other military leaders out of the picture. Rumsfeld got his way, but his downfall came as the insurgency grew and there were not enough soldiers to control the country.

I think it is available to watch online at pbs.org.

Wow, this is all great kool-aid, but mommy, daddy, PLEASE stop fighting.

(Just one more day and maybe we can get back to kicking the RIAA's ass!)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pentagon/
moopie, you should have told us it was on.

Vote or Die!

mroop; actually I did. Even after looking at the sites you recommended, watching the Communist News Network, and that paragon of honesty and virtue, Dan Rather, I still cast my vote for W and I make no apologies for it.

Whether you get your news from Fox News or PBS (I still watch McNeil Lehrer) or the concocted stories at CBS. That plays only one part in shaping basic polical beliefs. One's parents play a more important role in shaping beliefs. Saying the more you watch FOX News, the more ignorant you become is comparable to Rush Limbaugh saying the more you watch CBS or read the New York Times, the more ignorant you become.

Once again, I feel like those lost baloonists who ask directions from a lawyer. Your information may be correct but it is totally useless to me.

I do have one prediction though. No matter who wins the election, the other side will say the election was stolen and begin their camapign for 2008.

Let the flaming begin.

One Day Left By Michael MooreMichaelMoore.com
Monday 01 November 2004
Dear Friends,
This is it. ONE DAY LEFT. There are many things I'd like to say. I've been on the road getting out the vote for 51 straight days so I haven't had much time to write. So I've put together a bunch of notes to various groups all in this one letter. Please feel free to copy and send whatever portions are appropriate to your friends and family as you spend these last 24 hours trying to convince whomever you can to show up and vote for John Kerry.

Here are my final words:
To Decent Conservatives and Recovering Republicans:
In your heart of hearts you know Bush is a miserable failure. From having no plan on what to do in Iraq once he conquered Baghdad to the 380 missing tons of explosives that could be used to kill our brave young men and women, this guy doesn't have a clue how to fight and win a war. You should see the mail I've been getting lately from our troops over there. They know how much the Iraqi people hate them. They are sitting ducks anytime they go out on the road. Many believe we are not that far away from a Tet-style offensive inside the Green Zone with hundreds of Americans and Brits killed. Bush refused to go after and capture Osama bin Laden. He fought, every step of the way, the investigation into the 9/11 attacks. Who on earth would oppose such a thing? If 3,000 people died at your place of work and your boss said we don't need to find out why or how it happened, he'd be thrown out on his ear. Bush's behavior after this great tragedy alone is reason enough for his removal.
You already know that George W. Bush is the farthest thing from a conservative. He's a reckless spender who has run up record-breaking deficits and the biggest debt in our history. He believes in having the government pry into everything from your library records to your bedroom. He has hit you with hidden taxes with his tax cuts for the rich. I know many of you don't like Bush, but are unsure of Kerry. Give the new guy a chance. He won't raise your taxes (unless you are super-rich), he won't take your hunting gun away, he won't make you visit France. He risked his life for you many years ago. He's asking for the chance to do it again. Scott McConnell at The American Conservative magazine has endorsed him. What more do you need?

To My Friends on the Left:
Okay, Kerry isn't everything you wished he would be. You're right. He's not you! Or me. But we're not on the ballot - Kerry is. Yes, Kerry was wrong to vote for authorization for war in Iraq but he was in step with 70% of the American public who was being lied to by Bush & Co. And once everyone learned the truth, the majority turned against the war. Kerry has had only one position on the war - he believed his president.

President Kerry had better bring the troops home right away. My prediction: Kerry's roots are anti-war. He has seen the horrors of war and because of that he will avoid war unless it is absolutely necessary. Ask most vets. But don't ask someone whose only horror was when he arrived too late for a kegger in Alabama.
There's a reason Bush calls Kerry the Number One Liberal in the Senate - THAT'S BECAUSE HE IS THE NUMBER ONE LIBERAL IN THE SENATE! What more do you want? My friends, this is about as good as it gets when voting for the Democrat. We don't have the #29 Liberal running or the #14 Liberal or even the #2 Liberal - we got #1! When has that ever happened?
Those of us who may be to the left of the #1 liberal Democrat should remember that this year conservative Democrats have had to make a far greater shift in their position to back Kerry than we have. We're the ones always being asked to make the huge compromises and to always vote holding our noses. No nose holding this time. This #1 liberal is not the tweedledee to Bush's tweedledum.

To Nader Voters:
See the above note.
Ralph's own party, the Green Party, would not endorse his run this year. That's because those of us who want to build a third party in this country know that the only way to do this is to build bridges with those who believe in the issues Nader believes in. But not one of those people will sacrifice the chance to remove George W. Bush from the White House on Tuesday. The choice here is clear: do we join with our friends, or do we piss on them?
After the debacle of 2000, the Democrats got smart and abandoned the conservative wing of their party. That's why 8 of the 9 Democrats in the primaries this year were from the liberal wing. Ralph should take credit for that and declare victory. It's so sad that he doesn't realize the good he's accomplished. But for reasons only known to him, he's more angry at the Democrats than he is at Bush. He has lost his compass. I worry he has lost his mind. But he still gives a great speech!
And Lila Lipscomb, the mother from Flint who lost her son in Iraq, she still grieves - as do the mothers of 1,120 others (not to mention the mothers of the 100,000 Iraqis who have died because of Bush's war).
That's what this election is about. Not Ralph proving some point. Almost none of us on his 2000 advisory group are supporting him this year. His total lack of respect for his best friends should tell all of you something about what he really thinks of you, too.

To the Non-Swing States:
Stop listening to how your vote doesn't count in this election and that your state is already decided for Kerry or Bush. It is critical that you vote because we not only need to give Kerry the electoral win, but he needs to have a HUGE mandate with an ENORMOUS popular vote victory as well. It will be impossible for him to get anything done for four years if there is no clear mandate. We must not only defeat Bush, we must put a stake in the heart of the right-wing, neo-con movement. If you live in New York, California, Illinois, Texas, the Northeast or the Deep South, you need to vote and you need to bring ten people with you to the polls.
If you live in a state where we have the chance to elect the Democrat to the Senate or the House, you need to vote. Turn off the TV. Quit listening to news media that has a vested interest in repeating to you over and over that your vote does not count. It does. If you have friends or relatives who live in the 30-plus non-swing states, call them and remind them how important it is that Kerry gets a massive popular vote victory.

To Non-Voters:
I understand why you stopped voting. Politicians suck. Nothing ever seems to change. You're only one vote. Yes, politicians suck. But so do car salesmen - and that hasn't stopped you from buying a car. Politicians only respond to the threat of the angry mob also known as the voting public. If most people don't vote, that's good news for them 'cause then they don't have to answer to the majority.
Almost fifty percent of Americans don't vote. That means you belong to the largest political party in America - the Non-Voting Party. That means you hold all the power to toss George W. Bush out of the Oval Office. How cool is that?

I believe that we are going to have the largest election turnout in our lifetime tomorrow. You don't want to miss out on that. The lines at the polls are going to be long and raucous and fun. It is an historic election. You won't want to say that you were the only one who wasn't there. Promise me you'll vote, just this one time.

To All First-Time Voters:
Welcome to the longest running, uninterrupted democracy on earth! You own it. It's yours.

A few words about how messy it's going to be tomorrow. The lines are going to be long. Bring your iPods. Better yet, bring a friend or two.
The election officials have no clue just how many millions are going to show up at the polls. This will be the largest turnout in our lifetime. They don't have enough machines. They are going to have to send for more ballots. And they are going to make it difficult for you to vote. The new law says if this is your first time voting you must bring ID with you that matches the address you are registered at. If for some reason they can't find your name on the voting rolls, you have the right to ask for a provisional ballot, which you can fill out and then sort things out later. If you have any problems at the polling place, please call 1-866-OUR-VOTE. The people there can tell you how to find the precinct where you should be voting, get you legal help if you are denied the right to vote, or answer any other questions you may have.
If you need any help figuring out the ballot, don't be afraid to ask. If you screw up your ballot, you can ask for another one. In fact, the law allows you to screw up your ballot two times before you finally have to submit your final ballot! Be careful to vote on the line that says John F. Kerry/John Edwards. Don't vote for more than one Presidential, Senate or House candidate or you ballot won't be counted. If your polling place has a stub or a receipt from your ballot, make sure they give you one.

Thanks for joining us. Democracy is not a spectator sport. It only works when we all come off the bench and participate.

To African Americans:
First of all, let's just acknowledge what you already know: America is a country which still has a race problem, to put it nicely. Al Gore would be president today had thousands of African Americans not had their right to vote stolen from them in Florida in 2000. Here is my commitment: I will do everything I can to make sure that that this will not happen again. And I'm not the only one making this pledge. Thousands of volunteer lawyers are flying to Florida to act as poll watchers and intervene should there be any attempts to deny anyone their right to vote. They will NOT be messing around.

For my part, I have organized an army of 1,200 professional and amateur filmmakers who will be armed with video cameras throughout the states of Florida and Ohio. At the first sign of criminality, we will dispatch a camera crew to where the vote fraud is taking place and record what is going on. We will put a big public spotlight on any wrongdoing by Republican officials in those two states. They will not get away with this as they did in 2000.

In Ohio, the Republicans are sending almost 2,000 paid "poll challengers" into the black precincts of Cleveland in an attempt to stop African Americans from voting. This action is beyond despicable. Do not let this stop you from voting. I, and thousand of others, will be there to fight for you and protect you.

To George W.:
I know it's gotta be rough for you right now. Hey, we've all been there. "You're fired" are two horrible words when put together in that order. Bin Laden surfacing this weekend to remind the American people of your total and complete failure to capture him was a cruel trick or treat. But there he was. 3,000 people were killed and he's laughing in your face. Why did you stop our Special Forces from going after him? Why did you forget about bin Laden on the DAY AFTER 9/11 and tell your terrorism czar to concentrate on Iraq instead?

There he was, OBL, all tan and rested and on videotape (hey, did you get the feeling that he had a bootleg of my movie? Are there DVD players in those caves in Afghanistan?)
Speaking of my movie - can I ask you a personal question before we part ways for good on Tuesday? Why did you and your friends fund SIX "documentaries" trashing me - but only ONE film against Kerry? C'mon, he was the candidate, not me. What a waste of your time and resources! Sure, I know what your pollsters told you, that the film had convinced some people to vote you out. I just want you to know that that was not my original intent. Funny things happen at the movies. Hope you get to see a few at the multiplex in Waco. It's a great way to relax.

To John Kerry:
Thank you. And don't worry - none of us are going away after you are inaugurated. We'll be there to hold your hand and keep you honest. Don't let us down. We're betting you won't. So is the rest of the world.

That's it. See you at the polls - and at the victory party tomorrow night.

Yours,
Michael Moore

As I stated before, whether Kerry or Bush gets elected half of the population will believe that whoever wins he will have stolen the elction and his rule illegitimate. Expect to see the campaign to take back the White House by the party out of power to begin tommorrow. Three cheers for gridlock and devisive government.

Being as there is no difference in policy, only in style, between the Demublicans and the Republicrats, I voted Libertarian. Know what would happen if everyone else did the same? That's right, either a Rep or Dem would STILL win, but at least the great lie would be exposed and undeniable.

Thank you, Carla, made my day!!! There are so many people watching the polls in Florida, I don't know how people even get to vote. But it makes me feel better to know there are many eyes focused on us. Little bro needs to be put under a microscope and dissected. Anything funny goes on here, and there will be people in the streets this time.

"moopie, you should have told us it was on."

Sorry about that.

"Saying the more you watch FOX News, the more ignorant you become is comparable to Rush Limbaugh saying the more you watch CBS or read the New York Times, the more ignorant you become."

So let me get this straight. You are comparing Rush Limbaugh to the Program on International Policy Attitudes? Yeah, that's a real apt comparison.

SSSharp

Judging from your posts..you are WAY too defensive to consider yourself enlightened. What's odd is that you seem to want to declare yourself as some sort of libertarian but you cant seem to handle the adversity that goes along with it.

I have not read a single comment from these people saying YOU MUST BELIEVE what they believe..they are voicing their concerns justifying their own personal and REASONABLE and LEGITMATE reasons just as much as you are.

Apprehension and beligerance is the first sign of the contrary of what you are accusing them of...being SHEEP and not being able to think for themselves.

FWIW... I think collateral damage in any war is inevitable..but the key issue seems to be about "vengeance". Who is to say that their actions are not about vengeance towards us? Basically in a nutshell youre saying eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth and thats fine...some people outside that mindset like to understand the source of the conflict. I don't believe people attack without some reason even when spoiled citizens like us dont give a shit about it.
So really..who is the REAL sheep SSharp?

I hope Kerry wins the election, but not the popular vote. Then all the democrats will try to run him out of office saying he wasn't voted in, but was "chosen." haha.. yeah right.

Sherminator.
I shudder to think LOL but I like 15 minutes ago literally I was thinking about that LOL eeerie

indieWarriors please do not rehash this. That argument is old news. No one is going to come out and SAY you must believe what they believe. Actions speak MUCH louder than words. In that whole argument the only free thinker that I saw was Sharp. But! For Gods Sake please dont rehash it. This thread has actually turned into a contructive debate without someone throwing in their un-needed two cents a day late and thirty bucks short.

StinkMonkey
Your last post was just as un-needed since all you did was whine and gave no input as to how you thought Sharp was a free thinker. Why? Because he was only one in here ranting and raving.
Unless you can add in something constructive yourself..please dont suggest what I *should* or *shouldnt* do. Simply ignore the post. Easy huh?

No not so easy. You lean left. He leans right. What did you offer other than being a troll in hoping he'll come back on here and engage you. Your point?

"So let me get this straight. You are comparing Rush Limbaugh to the Program on International Policy Attitudes? Yeah, that's a real apt comparison. "

Actually, I was comparing Rush Limbaugh to Dan Rather. As well as the bias of FOX News versus the bias of such accurate news reporting from CBS News and New York Times. I really guess anybody who doesn't believe exactly as you do are ignorant: *Rolls eyes and shakes head*

Ahhh..interesting...so by adding your *cough* needed 2 cents a day late..you would suggest I shouldnt be allowed to post. Youre hysterical. LOL

No I don't lean left which Im curious where you got that info..and he proclaimed that he didnt necessarily lean right either which you neglected to read.

The very fact you're engaging me and telling me what to do or not do with your hypocritical sarcasms shows funny you are. There's my point for you.

But that's okay. I did want to thank you for motivating me to go out and press that touch screen two hours ago. In case you haven't guessed, it was for Bush/Cheney for president as well as Isaacson for senator. Should Kerry win, I want to make sure he has a majority Republican congress to deal with.

*bleeeeeech*

Sure troll. When he comes back on here and throws this thread back into chaos you'll be happy.

Can we lay off the name calling?

Here we go again:

Dan Aykroyd to Jane Curtain on Saturday Night Live:

"Jane, you ignorant slut............."

StinkMonkey

So dear fellow trollster...what makes Sharp such a FREETHINKER..you still didnt answer.

I simply stated that instead of focusing on eye for an eye..how about looking at the source of the problem..his attitude is basically kill em all b/c they'll kill us...besides the very obvious statement..doesnt sound very enlightened to me.

I call it how I see it. This guy is doing nothing but trying to troll Sharp back out into an argument.

StinkMonkey

Cool..so in the meantime brother Troll....unless you can come up with something interesting instead of being like the pesty annoying child who craves attention fidgeting..perhaps you just should leave your 2 cents in your pocket.

Because he had the smarts to point out how STUPID it was to even consider something on Al Jazeera before voting. No here we dont go again Mike. I shouldn't have fed the troll and now I'll let him go about his merry trolling ways.

LOL He instigated the argument to begin with and this is an internet chat forum. Im only asking him questions. What are you..his girlfriend or mom or something?
What is it to you? Youre not even adding anything useful other than griping about what a person posts in a public internet forum. I rather be a "troll" than become some anal retentive loser trying to moderate an internet message board all day. LOL

Uhmm..I didnt read anything specific from ShadowMom's post about using Al Jazeera as a consideration before voting. It seems like she was curious what their insights were. Like most agitated people, he overreacted and completely took it out of context.
While I can understand that conservatives can feel frustrated amongts left wingers...he blurted out words in other people's mouths and went on post after post being defensive of his southern roots.

Dude......Indie........

"I shouldn't have fed the troll and now I'll let him go about his merry trolling ways."


You gonna prove him right and keep going?

Prove what?
This is an internet public message forum.
I have a life so I don't get personally attached to what people say in a anonymous forum. For entertainment purposes, I read something and Ill participate if I choose to..whether it was yesterday or day late.

Frankly I think *anyone* who has a problem handling adversity on the internet needs to get their head examined.

No Stink. I don't have anything more to add. I've made my points and people can make of them what they wish.

Sharp said:
"The problem is that on this site where it is obvious where the majority leans you cannot dare voice a different opinion without drawing the ire of the majority more than half the time. "
-----
This is the gist of your point that I got.
But I think you were more motivated to come across as a martyr when it wasnt necessary.

This was your very first post in the thread:

"SSSharp
Date: October 31, 2004 @ 7:39 PM
So what are you trying to say ShadowMom? Do you HONESTLY believe this bullshit?!?!?! "

---
It was intentionally hostile, and you're surprised they reacted the way they did?

You didnt make any point Sharp other than deliver your beliefs for which you are entitled to..but youre NOT a victim on this site.

In my opinion a troll is someone who deliberately tries to start an argument by whatever means necessary. It doesn’t matter in what forum be it face to face or real life. IndieWarrior, the argument from yesterday was clearly over and you had to toss your hat in the ring. No matter what your intentions may have been you HAD to have known there was a distinct possibility of your late rebuttal throwing the thread back into disarray. That my friend, is what I call a troll. Sharp said he isn’t going to engage you and I personally thank him for that.

I looked away from this site after getting into it with Codewarrior over his views on F9/11. How long ago was that? Two or three months? It still is sad to me that the operator of this site has chosen to let it go to the dogs the way it has and not post other points of view. I submitted four articles that leaned right and never saw them pop up on the site.

Now that I look back at the thread I still see you are trying to bait SSSharp back into a fight. You asked me, “Prove what?” Do you still not understand what I’m saying? As long as we’re quoting posts.

“@ShadowMom – Maybe my methods of voicing my differing opinions were not the best. Even for an internet chat board. I am an extremely outspoken person when it comes to my beliefs and the way I think people should be. To me it looked like you wanted people to actually consider something written on a terrorist news network (Al Jazeera) before they cast their vote for president. To ME (MY OPINION) that is ignorant beyond belief. I teach my students to think for themselves and form their own opinions in life. Maybe I should spread that philosophy and be more tolerant of people’s views online. That I will concede.”

Looks to me like he doesn’t think he was a victim of anything. He phrased his argument back at her the way he should have to begin with.

SSSharp I commend you for standing up for yourself on this site. I know it’s hard for people who lean right to get a decent shake on this site and commend anyone who tries. No matter how people react to them.

"Now that I look back at the thread I still see you are trying to bait SSSharp back into a fight. You asked me, “Prove what?” Do you still not understand what I’m saying? As long as we’re quoting posts. "
-----
You clearly missed the point...WHO THE FUCK CARES??! Get over it. If he chooses to answer he does..if he doesnt he doesnt. Whether you think Im baiting him is irrelevant because I read his schtick and it seems like he was ranting and raving to begin with and there are few guys like you who get so anal about "trolling" and youre going to berate ME for being pathetic?? I dont take any of this shit personally..I saw the thread..was intrigued and posted without reservation.

Incidentally..just because he throws a tantrum in a message forum being a minority in terms of political views doesnt make him right nor commendable. It's easy to type messages and click "POST".

Im not liberal and the majority of his posts that I read objectively were mostly whining about his right to his views as if it they were impeded.

There are places in the world where you will be executed for thinking outside the norm..anyone who can bravely defy THAT is commendable. Your commendations are a joke.

Where did I say you were pathetic? I didn't say anywhere that you were pathetic. Oh nevermind. Have fun. Get the last word in and have a great election day.

Yea I can see how you can confuse the verbs BERATE and SAID.

--
"Get the last word in and have a great election day. "
--

Seriously..is this third grade??!

Geez louise.

thanks to carla for posting the statement by Michael Moore, I may see flaws in his movies and general political worldview, but i agreed with everything he said there.

I hope everybody gets out to vote, we Canadians are just as happy to see Bush hopefully get his ass booted as the rest of the world, warmongering aside, his administration has made a disaster out of what was once an amiable trading relationship.

And when its all said and done, whoever wins the election, here's an idea.

Instead of trading insults with anonymous strangers like a bunch of obnoxious teenagers, round up a group of friends and co-workers and go to the pub and have a good political bitch out face to face with some pints and a plate of wings to wash it down.
You won't have a pseudonym to hide behind then, and any attempt to lower the conversation down to the level of what we see on this site will instantly reveal your true nature to the people you have to relate to on a daily basis, you may even get a fist in the teeth, which would hopefully deter people into keeping the discourse polite, and then maybe some actual communication might take place instead of this pointless verbal masturbation.

Love the way you put it..verbal masturbation

I was just plotting out holes in some of this thread.

I was called a troll for pointing out that SSharp was basically trolling with his initial abuse to ShadowMom's post.
His cronies "commend" him for trolling.

Sharp was bitching that he feels that he can't say what he believes in for the fear of internet backlash. [scratches head] but I've been vehemently told not to bring it up to Sharp and just shut up.

The irony and the hypocrisy of it all gives me an orgasm.

Happy Voting!

verbal masturbation = real orgasm ?

shoshidge--can't do that in the U.S. Too many people carry concealed weapons here. Joke!!!!! Just a joke!!!!! I'm in a battleground state, you gotta be careful what you say here....

the way the election seems to be heading, I might be seeing a few of y'all in Canada some day soon, get out while you can.

"get out while you can."

I wasn't aware of any plans to prevent people from moving out of the country.

Oh, Sherm you better pay attention to what Dubya's doing!!!! I've been hearing rumors (unconfirmed) that when he reinstitutes the draft, he's making some kind of deal with the Canadian government to prevent a mass exodus like the one during the Vietnam War. Make your reservations early, baby.