I thought about calling it "The GRUDGE MATCH".

I thought about calling it "Son of BUSH vs KERRY"...or, to keep the Middle Eastern theme...thought of calling it "THE MOTHER OF ALL DEBATES".

But, tonight, it's the equivalent of wrestling's "Cage Match". They will be free to get off their seats and actually roam around a bit.

Whether you are a Bushite or a Kerryovigian, you should enjoy this animated foray into the media circus.

It'll be going live, with microphones hot, tonight at 8 pm Central.

Once the words start flying and the rhetoric starts exploding, it'll be "Katy Bar the Door" and all bets are off.

But finally , maybe it should be entitled...
SKULL AND BONES ONE against SKULL AND BONES TWO
or
"Temporary" Meets "Long Devil"

But, since I saw Alien V. Predator the movie, perhaps I will just copyright infringe the tagline from the movie....Whoever Wins, WE LOSE

:)
Thoughts?

How many times will kerry flip-flop tonite?

Let's start a pool...

I say Bush will have more flip flops than Coney Island on the 4th of July

more flipflops than the annual running of the grunion fish in California
http://www.oceansonline.com/grunion.htm
"Grunion man, grunion man,
Running for grunion as fast as he can,
When he finds them he puts them in a can,
Grunion man, grunion man.

Grunion man, grunion man,
Squirming and twisting as fast as he can,
When he's finished, he does it again,
Grunion man, grunion man.

Grunion man, grunion man,
Nobody knows how he can,
Find those grunion all over the land,
Grunion man, grunion man.

Silly poem composed by Homey G for Sporty "

In this case, the grunion are the votes of poor slobs like you and me.

George is a Son of a Bush

http://www.nobeliefs.com/politics/BushChimp.jpg

http://www.dontvoteforgeorge.com/smal3.gif

When asked about the plans for a draft...Bushy said
"I hear there's rumors on the (pause) internets"

How many friggin' INTERNETS does Bush know about?

veee-hicle

Kerry just kicked butt and took names.

OMG bush just basically had a caniption.. ran over the moderator and demanded to respond without any moderator interjection. wow - he's gettin shaken

I thought I heard him say internets, geez

he's litterally getting the look in his eye like the 'fatal 7 minutes' of ready my pet goat as kerry speaks..

i *almost* feel sorry for him

workin' hard for the money

reading my pet goat that is

ask compmore why he's still going to vote for him.

The Patriot act is vital

Taking freedom from citizens is vital

Canadian Drugs can kill you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Drugs are bad but Cocaine is good for Bush

just posting thoughts, not trying to offend anybody

John Kerry "John edwards is the author of the Patients bill of rights. He wanted to give people rights"

How presidential

I hope everyone is watching this debate, I hope to hear your comments

War is Peace "George Bush's Insurance policy"

I want a dollar for every time Bush says "hard work"...I could retire!

hell yeah "Code"

ok he just proved he doesn't know SFA about budgeting - we don't have a deficit because of recession. even at the peak of our economy we still would not have been able to pay for 700 billion in spending.

No one ever talks about the fact that the Insurance companies own the government, why not?

Who gets the 120 billion dollars if we do not go to war with Iraq

(Kerry looks into the camera and says....) yes I will not raise taxes. he's sounding like George senior.

How does the economy grow when all the IT jobs go over seas?

neither one is addressing the moderators question about cutting the deficit. both say they will but neither is telling how

Am I offendint people? it seems that no one wants to talk about the debate

he specifically said what group he'd raise taxes on.

honestly.. this tax cut he gave us is just murdering us. i got 200 bucks back.. BFD.. i'd rather the gov't kept that 200 per head than to F the next 3 generations with a rusty chainsaw.

as anyone who's ever been in debt knows - its easier to get out of debt at the beggining.. in the end - you just file chapter 11.

John Kerry "I only see 3 people who will be affected, Bush, myself, and the moderator"

Question is will Teresa Heinz pay higher taxes?

Raising taxes on the rich won't help...Just gives them more room for deductions.

if you tax the rich, the rich will just raise the prices on movie tickets to pay for increase in salaries to make up for the tax hike. Either way the middle class pays.

"...a hydrogen automobile....uh..a hydrogen generated automobile"-Bush

YIPPEEEEE a car made out of hydrogen...not merely hydrogen POWERED...a damn hydrogen car...you could float through the air in your hydrogen generated car because hydrogen is lighter than air. Good invention Georgie...how about that clap on, clap off deal..you invent that one too?

I like your comments Domethius

honestly.. this tax cut he gave us is just murdering us. i got 200 bucks back.. BFD.. i'd rather the gov't kept that 200 per head than to F the next 3 generations with a rusty chainsaw.

Drokaten I agree 100%

he is an idiot Code.

jsk2001 is 100% right as well. taxing the rich will just make us pay

kerry needs to explain the companies pay for at least half the health insurance costs. so its probably not hitting a lot of people (especially those that have never had company sponsored health insurance) that by lowering the cost of health care - your lowering the employers bottom line allowing them to grow.

Thanks Code, when do you think they will discuss the facism on the NET, probably never.

great speech about the patriot act for Kerry. I'm suprisenly impressed.

We cease to exist when our freedom is gone

actually jsk is not 100% right. a lot of the 'rich' are getting money through stocks. they don't sit on the boards.. they're just taking dividends in companies they own part of.

movie ticket prices will rise as long as the evil of inflation continues to plague us. as will the cost of Everything.

the rich themselves - don't generally speaking drive the cost of individual items. competition in markets drives the prices up or down.

for example - walmart will always Lower prices relative to their competition - their ceo won't stick it to the consumers.. he'll take it out of the hides of his employees.

Freeze the economy and (excuse my language) FUCK THE RICH

"Constitution says we're all (pause) , it doesn't say that."-BUSH

what was that deal Bush said a while ago about "battling green eye shades"?

you're right code, it says all men.... if you want to exclude women

I respect that.
Agnostic "You beleive that we came from dirt but not from Monkeys?"

Didn't the constitution say that slaves counted as 3/5 of a person?

he is such an idiot.
George, you can run but you cannot hide.

When did the USA become the Police of the World? Did I miss the memo?

Kerry's sounding like a (gasp, horror) republican

compmore isn't the only person voting Bush.

I'm gonna have to say that minus some arm waving - dubya came off as sounding a lot like good old benito musolinni (and they're pretty close to the same spot on the political compass so its not surprising)

kerry laid out some good stuff.. but some of it needs explaining.. most people aren't business owners - so they don't understand how by cutting x you add to y in a lot of instances.

bush on the other hand counts on the fact that most people don't know that - and uses buzzwords that make you feel that he *might* be doing something.. but mainly because you don't understand the innner workings heh.

there's really a difference between conservative and NeoCon...between conservative and republican...
Alex Jones of http://www.inforwars.com
is a TRUE conservative, but is against Bush and NeoCons, and NOT a republican nor democrat.

Sherm, thank the good folks here on the site and the vicious name calling. that turned the tide.

Isn't it a real shame that the copyright for this broadcast lasts for 100+ (or so) years?

If the US lasts that long.

I for one, do not like Kerry's switiching topics when answering questions.

Not that I'm for Bush either.

Now, where is that instant replay on the web? (So that I can verify my statments)

I kept thinking Bush looked like a Chimp in a Suit
http://images2.dmusic.com/users/c/o/d/codewarrior/34673.jpg

Yeah, it did comp. Especially folks like carla. I wonder what her problem is. She gets awfully vicious when you insult celeberties. Maybe she'd be happier in California?

Damn--I really wish I could see my tv from where my computer is!! We still have a couple of weeks to work on youse guys.....but sometimes I want to smack George and tell him to get a vocabulary. I bet we never hear from his language arts teachers. And thank you, Kerry, for not imposing your personal beliefs on the rest of us....
Btw, comp, just saw a weather map--seen Michael? If that thing gets here around Nov. 2nd, I will be convinced it's a plot...

Actually Sherm, Carla and I had a very good, civil debate earlier with no passion or name calling. that's great cause that's how it should be.

ShadowMom,

I can't find it at the moment, but maybe you've seen it. It was the tracks of all the hurricanes to hit Florida this year on top of a map showing the FL counties that voted Bush or Kerry. The center/eye of ALL of them tracked through only counties that Bush won.

wow shadowmon. didn't know another one was on the way. gonna check it out

That'd odd, comp. Because when she started with the snide comments, I wasn't even talking to her.

http://www.surfingtheapocalypse.net/Graphics/bush_hurricane.gif

Here you are. This is great.

shadowmom give me a link, I can't find it on the weather channel.

also for the record. I don't like the idea of voting for Bush but I dislike having Kerry even more. I'm sick of the political system giving all of us these kind of choices.

I saw the map--it was hilarious. But you have to see where I found out, especially if you like Bush...the whole truth, nothing but the truth, etc. It was at
http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/hurricane.asp

And if you know what Snopes.com is, you'll get the idea.

And comp, it's a teensy one--not to worry. Just can't believe the odds.

comp, here:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/

Under Matthew, click "Maps & Charts"

lol shadowmom.. thanks

comp, try this one--it's one of my favorite weather links. And my mistake, it's Matthew, not Michael.
http://maps.wunderground.com/tropical/

Sherm-we aim to please. There's a lot of jokes on our side, you guys can have one on us.

thanks, yes I saw Matthew. nothing to worry about

funny map

"When did the USA become the Police of the World? Did I miss the memo?"

If you're not with us, you're against us. You terrorist loving son of a bitch!

OK, I'll say it like this. Anyone who still wants to vote for King George the Useless has to be wackier than CodeWarrior or Carla 60626 gives them credit for.

Also King George the Bonehead was just at a rally (in Queenie Park, St. Louis Co.) for Matt Blunt (YUCK) who is rinning for gov. Now John Kerry is at the America Center (Downtown St. Louis) which is a rally that is open to both Rep. & Dems. The rally Shrub was at was only for hand picked reps.

this is exactly what convinced me. if this is what Kerry represents then I'm please to vote for Bush

Vote Bush.

. . . and run the risk of living to regret it!

Come on, guys! Did I ever call you names? I realize there is a difference of opinion on this subject, and unfortunately it does get out of hand once in a while. But that is not a good reason to vote for Bush. My brother-in-law is a dyed-in-the-wool Republican, and tried to start an argument with me one day about Bush vs. Kerry. When I asked him why I should vote for Bush, the best he could come up with was the stupid ketchup story and the slogan, "Kerry's scary." I told him not to tell me why I should NOT vote for Kerry, but why I SHOULD vote for Bush--and I've been waiting a month for an answer. Facts, figures, not ketchup stories, now go for it. WHY not WHY NOT.
I have a personal grudge against George, but it has to do with education, which maybe isn't important to either of you, if you aren't yet parents. The No Child Left Behind farce. Not only didn't he fund it, it's based on a lie. It didn't work in Houston, and it won't work the way it's set up now. So tell me again, why would you vote for George?

If I vote for Nader, I "run the risk of living to regret it." The same goes for walking to the mailbox or driving a car. Vote Bush.

I halfway agree Shadowmom. I don't believe any of the reasons to vote for Kerry either. I'm in the same boat as you, just on a different side.

I have a grudge against George for the way he treats scientific research like it has no basis for credibility. Public schools were a mess before Bush got to office anyway.

Now children, just remember that everyone wants to be talking together here AFTER this voting thing is all over..so play nice...

I caught some of it tonight, and I actually thought Bush came across surer than normal...I also found Kerry didn't answer a couple of the questions properly..it's like they'd ask the question and he responded with something totally off topic... he'd make a good boycotter .... good thing I can't vote (as I hear the books whizzing past my head as I run from this room)

Who isn't playing nice? I guess I didn't read all the posts.

Bush actually effectively refuted Kerry on more than a few points tonight. But Kerry did the same, again. I come out of it calling them both liars for the second time. Nothing's changed.

I'm waiting for the 2008 elections..there are rumors on the "internets" that a woman may just be running.... I'm going pass that one around

Nah, pepe, that's just Hillary. Absolutely positively NO CHARISMA. Besides, she's a co-sponsor of one of these pesky anti-P2P bills we really want to see die a rapid and painful death. Therefore, she is not to be trusted on any other topic of importance. Btw, did you hear there's a rumor on the internets that the draft might be coming back???? Thank you, George, for being so damn hard-headed. Even if you win, we have you saying point blank the draft will not be back. Just try it now, buster. I have the tape, and I have the printed transcript. Not MY baby you don't. If they try, pepe, move over 'cause I will be up to the new land of the free......or maybe I'll just buy an island in the Caribbean. I hear they're pretty cheap right now. Fix-er-uppers, ya know....

awsome pepe. is it you?? you got my vote.

BTW I agree with shadowmom. her brother-in-does for Bush what I've heard here for Kerry. makes it tough cause I reall don't want to vote for either one. Also Pepe political discussion isn't children bickering (unless name calling is involved and there's been very little of that in this thread) the name calling I refer to is trying to slime the oposing candadate. in that I agree with shadowmom. I really can't think of any reason to vote for either of the two but I can think of a number of reasons to vote against either one. Untill we, as a people, rebel against the current political system it'll keep going this way

I have a feeling -- no matter who's in charge of the White House -- our nation is headed for big trouble in the future.

Amen, DemandRelevance, amen. (And I don't mean that in a religious sense, either, pepe. )

"Sherm, thank the good folks here on the site and the vicious name calling. that turned the tide."

Compmore's decision on who to vote for turned based upon the words of people on this site. I hate to say this but .... what a moron!

"Until we, as a people, rebel against the current political system" and start to make a difference, not much improvement can be expected.

My god.. President Hillary Clinton. May an asteroid kill us all.

DemandRelevance, now that's the attitude I'm looking for! Down with the establishment! or something

mroop in this whole thread of political discussion you are the only one who decided to throw insults at any of the polsters. that should say something right there. since there's no real reason to vote for either one the only choice is to vote for someone (with no good reason) or not to vote. stop the name calling and do something positive.

"Compmore's decision on who to vote for turned based upon the words of people on this site. I hate to say this but .... what a moron!"

Hey, Carla's the one who pms'd on me for suggesting that we inform ourselves politically from a source other than celeberties.

Speaking of morons, did you hear that some people are deciding who to vote for based on what Bush/Kerry are saying?

btw, I wasn't calling you a moron comp

I know we'll leave that to Mroop. he's the intellectual with a mastery of words

Intellectual? I thought he was a lawyer.

"Hey, Carla's the one who pms'd on me for suggesting that we inform ourselves politically from a source other than celeberties."

That's funny. : )

"mroop in this whole thread of political discussion you are the only one who decided to throw insults at any of the polsters."

That's true. You short circuited my fragile eggshell mind with that mind boggling statement.

"since there's no real reason to vote for either one the only choice is to vote for someone (with no good reason) or not to vote."

Baby Jesus in heaven, you did it again! Someone please hit me repeatedly in the head with a ball peen hammer.

Shadowmom... go stand in your coldest freezer with a fan blowing for about four hours, and when you get out, let me know if you'd still like a Canadian Prairie winter.....but those Caribbean properties are not a bad idea...

I do like Dr. Condoleezza Rice....could she run at some time?

Thanks for the vote Compmore, but if you think things are bad now, they'd be running me out on the rails

"Intellectual? I thought he was a lawyer."

Now you've gone too far. I am suing your ass first thing tomorrow morning. I just set my alarm clock.

That's true. You short circuited my fragile eggshell mind with that mind boggling statement.

nothing mind boggling about it.

pepe, so do I. http://www.rice2008.com/

mroop, I hope you didn't set it before noon.

"I do like Dr. Condoleezza Rice....could she run at some time?"

Now that Bush and Chaney have admitted there were no WMDs in Iraq, Condoleezza Rice's once catchy line about a smoking gun becoming a mushroom cloud doesn't seem so clever anymore, does it?

I don't see how any of that detracts from the cleverness of the statement.

It does because it was given in context of justifying the pre-emptive (aggressive) military attack against Iraq.

And she, along with Dubya and Chaney, were wrong.

Sherminator, Thanks for the link..thats great...
Now THAT would make for an interesting, election....signing off for the night, er morning. Goodnight folks...

Cleverness doesn't count when it's misapplied (in this case, in a misleading context).

It wasn't wrongly applied. She applied the cleverness just the way she intended. Besides, cleverness is to be judged at the time it occurs.

It is only in hindsight that you determined her statement to lack cleverness. The same could be done to a lot of statements over the course of history. But it would be unfair to look back from where we stand today and judge the cleverness of statements based on the past through the "lens" of today.

that's what i get for not proofreading after I edit:

"But it would be unfair to look back from where we stand today and judge the cleverness of statements made in the past through the "lens" of today."

nite Pepe. I'm off myself. adios

It is only in hindsight that you determined her statement to lack cleverness.

Truth trumps cleverness, past or present.
There's a case to be made that the administration had their collective minds made up to go to war, and the prospect of WMDs one way or another would not have deterred them.
Condi was using dramatic flair to be convincing, but there was no real evidence to support her claim....therefore, no props for Condi.

And when I say "a case to be made", I mean a strong case.

dammit. i lose.

there is no spoon

??

Of course, you say they were "wrong." You did not say that she lied. If she was lying, then it was dramatic flair. However, if they were simply "wrong" (as you stated at 1:32 am), then there is no argument that can be made against her cleverness. Being misinformed cannot be used against one's use of wit.

I'm not a gambler; otherwise, I'd bet she had been lying through her teeth as much as her compadres were.

So, the cleverness of her statement cannot be determined, without doubt, by anyone outside of the White House. Hmm.

They were in a pretty good position to know much more about Saddam and the kind of military stuff he had on hand. I don't believe all the bunk and scapegoating about the oh-my-gosh 'pitiful' intelligence information that they were, ahem, 'misled' about.

I agree. Unfortunately, to reach a definitive conclusion about the cleverness of Condi's statement we must enter into the most heated political debate raging in this country right now and will most certainly get nowhere with it.

Go ahead and call her clever.
Go ahead and put your faith in Dubya & his gang.
Go ahead and vote Republican.

ok

And the same goes for anyone else out there who wants to do likewise; it's an individual choice.

What does that have to do with anything? Just snap or something?

I'm not calling her clever. I guess you forgot to read my last post. I never said I had faith in W. and his gang. I did say I was voting for Bush though. 1/3 ain't bad.. oh wait.

I demand relevance!!

"I'm not calling her clever."

You got as close to it as you could get.

"I never said I had faith in W. and his gang."

You're voting for someone you don't have faith in?
Hmm. That's interesting.

Your being argumentative for the sake of arguing is not a productive use of my time.
Good night.

"I demand relevance!!"

Go ahead; I demand it often, too, but don't always get it.
It's a tough life, ain't it?

"You got as close to it as you could get."

I did call her clever. Just as you said she wasn't clever. It can be deduced from your statements just as easily as mine that it cannot be determined based on the criteria we've set.

"You're voting for someone you don't have faith in?
Hmm. That's interesting."

hahahaha. Yeah, it's unheard of!

"Your being argumentative for the sake of arguing is not a productive use of my time."

LOL. In case you didn't notice, this whole argument was a waste of time. I wasn't aware that you were taking it so seriously. The argument wasn't "relevant" to anything (hee hee ooooh!). If you wish to concede, then it's been fun.

But remember, just because you run out of defense doesn't mean that the other person is being argumentative just for the sake of arguing. You're the one who effectively ended the discussion with two completely irrelevant statements.

Vote Bush

What's 'relevant' is that you have decided to vote Republican, even if you don't have faith in the administration. Obviously, that's your freedom of choice.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ [sawing logs]

Sherm, you're full of yourself.
Get a life.

No concession, BTW.

Relevant? How? To what discussion? We weren't talking about voting or freedom choice or anything else of the nature. We were discussing the cleverness of Condi's statement. And to think I thought I had been outdone. Nighty night.

Incidentally:
I can end the stupid argument anytime.

You're the one who started arguing, not me.

"Sherm, you're full of yourself.
Get a life."

Relevant how? If I had no confidence at all would you use that against me? Jeebus.. you're completely derailed.

Nobody's outdone, neither you nor me.

How does it matter who started the argument? You particpated. That's all that matters. Then you went totally off track and then insulted me. geez.

That was the point I was trying to make. It can't be determined (see: 2:13 am).

This is the epitome of B.S.
What a waste of band-width!

That would be another point I'm trying to make. Why exactly did you start talking about voting for Bush and me being full of myself, and who started it? I thought we were moving along just fine. Thought you were going to bed.

does anyone know what the definition of "is" is?

"It can't be determined (see: 2:13 am)."

If cleverness is used in a way that turns out to have the hallmarks of misleading people and indirectly resulting in unnecessary deaths, destruction, and dissipation of billions upon billions of dollars -- well, it ceases to be cleverness from most people's vantage point.

lol. Thought you went to bed too, comp.

(seriously, I was having a lighthearted discussion about something totally unimportant. oh well).

You're a Bush supporter, and most of these web users are aware of it. It's fairly well-known.
If you want to defend Condi's statement, feel free.
At this point in time, now that most of the truth is out about no WMDs in Iraq, I'm surprised that you might be so inclined.

Hey, back on track.

If she was lying, then I will admit I am wrong and agree with you. But if she was misinformed, then I'm afraid you can't use that against her. If I made a witty comment about WMD a year ago before it was known that this was all a bunch of crap from the government, then you can't go back and say it wasn't witty. I think we've reached the end here.

I am a Bush supporter. That has nothing to do with the scope of this discussion. We're talking about whether or not Condi deserves credit for her cleverness or not.

aww. Nighty night.

"...before it was known that this was all a bunch of crap from the government..."

Let's consider that. "Before it was known" -- by the public? There's a really good chance the government knew LONG before the public.
Dubya and Blair were men on a mission, and rationales to support their pre-determined decision to go to war were needed for effective spin to get most of the public and legislators on their side.
Dubya, Chaney, Condi, etc., gave the appearance of being side by side on the same page.

That is highly probable. But you took a statement from what I wrote and applied a different discussion to it. Arguing about WMD, etc. is tiring, especially when I agree with you.

Oh, well, then let's retire for the night on a note of agreement!

Alright. Later

O.K.

(i was just razzin' ya for getting away from the topic. it's the primary reason i'm hated

That's okay; no problem. I respect both your right to your opinions and your demand for logic from others.

I tend to argue with tunnelvision, if that makes any sense. When people veer off topic it always baffles me because I wonder what kind of connections they're trying to make. They usually end up getting pissed, saying I'm being petty, giving up, or whatever else. You're one of very few people to actually recognize it. thanks.. (back to work)

man that john kerry is such a liar and bush... well stupid as always but i think bush ate kerry alive.
but kerry fucked up by saying he was a lawyer too and saying that `w' owned timber company
and saying he was a lawyer just killed it for kerry. the last thing we need is a lawer for a president
fuuuuck that shit. they work for who they get paid for
guess waht lawyer support riaa/mpaa/communism/all the anti freedom bullshit we all talk about
fuck john kerry becasue hes a damn liar and screw bush becasue he signed in the patriot act and wont give our rights back

in other words
FUCK THEM BOTH AND WHO EVER SUPPORTS THEM BOTH ARE FUCKING DUMBASSES.
I DONT VOTE FOR BULLSHITTERS.
sorry but these two cantadates are as shady as anyone can get we got a warmonger and a fucking lawyer to choose from
fuck that shit

http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/oct/09us.htm
"An interesting aside came while Kerry was rebutting Bush's assertion that the Kerry tax plan would put a tax burden on small businesses. To drive home his point that there were too many loopholes in tax law, Kerry said that both Bush and his vice president, Dick Cheney, qualified as small businesses. 'President Bush owns a timber business,' Kerry said.

Bush blew it. "I own a timber business? You want some wood, Charlie?" he chuckled.

It's likely to come back and bite him - here's why. The other day, Cheney suggested that people should go check factcheck.org (though Cheney misstated it when he called it factcheck.com, which sent a lot of people on a web
hunt).

So the Republicans know of factcheck.org. Useful site, that - and here is what it says on the subject of Bush's timber business (Here's the link to the full story http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=265 - read through to the middle): "President Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business owner" under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $ 84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise. However, 99.99% of Bush's total income came from other sources that year. (Bush also qualified as a "small business owner" in 2000 based on $ 314 of "business income," but not in 2002 and 2003 when he reported his timber income as "royalties" on a different tax schedule.)

Vice President Cheney and his wife Lynne qualify as "small business owners" for 2003 because 3.5% of the total income reported on their tax returns was business income from Mrs. Cheney's consulting business. She reported $ 44,580 in business income on Schedule C, nearly all of it from fees paid to her as a director of the Reader's Digest. But giving the Cheneys a tax cut didn't stimulate any hiring; she reported zero employees."

Hmmmmmmm....Do tell!

http://www.csmonitor.com/earlyed/early_usa1009.htm
""Debate's most heated moment

The most heated moment of the debate came after Kerry accused the president of choosing to go it alone in Iraq.

Although the format did not provide for a response at that time from the president, Bush interrupted moderator Charlie Gibson, saying insistently, "I got to answer this," and then confronting Kerry: "You tell Tony Blair we're going it alone. Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone. Tell Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland we're going alone. There are 30 countries there. It denigrates an alliance to say we're going alone, to discount their sacrifices."
http://cryptome.org/mil-dead-iqw.htm
Way overa 1000 of our American soldiers killed
http://cryptome.org/mil-dead-iqw.htm#October%202004
Names of those killed in October so far.
========SNIP===============
For King George the Cowardly to suggest, insinuate, or otherwise falsely misrepresent, that anything approaching an equal contribution from these other countries is to dilute inappropriately, the sacrifice of American men and women in this war.

If anyone doesn't understand that this war if being paid for by American dollars and American lives, almost completely, is to ignore not only statistics but good common sense.

Bush conjures up the notion that we have this big coalition and support from so many other countries, trying to validate this wrongheaded war.

Time to pull our men and women out of the Iraqi meatgringer!

By the way, if Kerry is the "used car salesman" of the debate, Bush is the village idiot that thinks God is telling him to attack passersby.

What was that under Bush left arm. On his waist line are close to it. Did he put the box there because it was seen on his back last time. There was something there.

Not Baghdad Bob anymore
Now Baghdad Bush

"By the way, if Kerry is the "used car salesman" of the debate, Bush is the village idiot that thinks God is telling him to attack passersby."

Oh, that's a good one, 'Code!

"What was that under Bush left arm. On his waist line are close to it. Did he put the box there because it was seen on his back last time. There was something there."

Hey, give the guy a break! He's GOT to have some handicap help to make the debate even close to a contest.
(You know, like in golf or bowling)

In a letter sent Friday to parents in San Diego, one of several school districts mentioned on the computer disk, school officials acknowledged that "potential terrorist threats" had led to "increased anxiety in our community about the safety and security of our schools."

But the letter went on to say that law enforcement agencies had concluded that "there is no specific threat to our schools and students here in San Diego." Other school districts issued similar statements.

Like I said Bush needed to get his ratings up again. Another Lie. And why did they put it out now. They had this info in June or July. Why didn't it come out then.

Not Baghdad Bob anymore
Now Baghdad Bush

In the past, (this one seems no different) televised debates are a waste of air time. The candidates don't debate issues and what they are going to do about them, they talk AT each other instead. Both will basically ignore the other, unless slinging a bit of mud and hoping for the mistake of getting to the other enough for a responce.

The majority of the time the debates are both a waste of tv airtime and a waste of the viewers time. Nothing of substance is really discussed and in true political fashion, you couldn't wring a positive "I Stand Here" statement out of either without the use of a microscope.

No the choice here is like the choice has been in the past. You can pick from a poor selection or you can vote independant.

I remember Bill Clinton's tax hike on gasoline.
" It will only affect the rich" Yeah so when that year I paid approx $114 dollars more in gasoline taxes that year. I was delighted to realize I was rich. One the other hand I was disappointed that the threashold for being considered rich was less than $18,000 (my income that year).