To read the text of the debate, including Bush saying
"You know, I think about Missy Johnson. She's a fantastic lady I met in Charlotte, North Carolina. She and her son Bryan, they came to see me. Her husband PJ got killed. He'd been in Afghanistan, went to Iraq.

You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can, knowing full well that the decision I made caused her loved one to be in harm's way."

go to:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/debatereferee/debate_0930.html

That story about Missy Johnson was inserted to show a compassionate president who understands sorrow and pain. I don't think Karl Rove is happy with the simplistic delivery and his choice of words.
Bush also said: "We're facing a group of folks who have such hatred in their heart, they'll strike anywhere, with any means."
Jon Stewart (Comedy Central) played this clip on his show, (including the pregnant pause and the blank stare) and looked at the audience repeating "a group of folks? a group of folks?"

Bush also quoted Conde Rice about the enemy only having to be right once and we have to be right 100% of the time. That is her intellectual property, is it not?
Or is it Rove's?

I'm not sure intellectual property applies to politics.

If I want more exciting reading I'll read war and peace. perhaps the dictionary, I hear there are really good words in there this year.

I wish they would transcribe the pauses and hesitation too. It reads as if they were always super confident and were doing a perfect delivery... Not always the case.

Also this is considered a news pool, no copyright on that. At least you don't need anything to repeat their words.

"You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can . . ."

You know, it's probably equally as hard work for P.J.'s widow to love you as best as she can.

According to my preliminary count, Bush said 'mixed messages' 10 times.

and mexed missages once

Inspired by dennie of the Forum, here is a google translation of an Italian newspaper article about the debate.

The USA president: "my adversary preda of the incoherence"

United States: Kerry gains the debate tv with Bush

To its favor all the surveys carry out to you after the television challenge. The candidate democratic: "War in Iraq, colossal error"

MIAMI (USA) - To surprise it is the challenger democratic, senator John Kerry to adjudicate the direct crash in tv with the USA president George W. Bush, the first one of the three previewed before 2 the presidential elections of November.

VICTORIA FOR KERRY IN THE SURVEYS - Than Kerry if she is cavata it better, she emerges from the first reactions of the two staff: that democratic sings Victoria, that republican s' pleases of proclamare a balancing and says that the things are to the point before and that null it is changed. With flying surveys, of which s' it ignores the reliability, the greater nets tv Americans decree winning Kerry: for the ABC, 56% for the senator against 44% for Bush; for the Nbc, quite 69% against 31%, 71%, turned out analogous for the Cbs, while it is 71% to 29% for the Wall ßstreet Journal, declared conservative daily paper .
Controversial the valence of one struck of Kerry, that it has said of to have mistaken in voting against the deep ones for the troops to the forehead in Iraq. There is who considers it an action of honesty and, therefore, a point to favor of the senator; and who introduces it like one indecisione testimony and, therefore, a point to sfavore of the senator. Nobody of the two contendenti - the comments are unanimous - has had "the blow from ko" in a position to tramortire the other and, perhaps, striking has not been pronounced no that it will enter in anthologies of you debate yourself. But the impression has been of solidity and preparation from part of both.

THE KERRY ACCUSATIONS - the two candidates are themselves meet to you above all on the more controversial topic. the issue irachena. E' be Kerry to pass endured to the attack accusing the republican adversary of having store clerk "a colossal error of appraisal" on the Iraq. The head of the head of the House White woman has instead put in doubt the ability to Kerry to guide the America in the total fight against the terrorism. In this mediatico comparison of ninety minuteren, accommodated in the Auditorium of the University of Miami to Global Gables, scandito from precise rules and followed from million spectators, the crash after all has been on who two two will be able protect the Country better on the opportunity to invade the Iraq and on as to guide the America in was of the total terrorism. "This president, dispiace to say it to me, has store clerk a colossal error of appraisal, and the appraisal to make is: that what we expect from a president of the United States ", Kerry in accusing Bush has asserted is hasty in a war without to make sure the support of allies to you neither to have a plan for the peace.

THE BUSH RETORT - Bush has beaten again: "the world is surer without Saddam Hussein". And it has made present that the challenger is sending marks mistaken them to the troops engaged in Iraq and the enemies of the nation. "I do not understand as it can succeed to carry this Country to win in Iraq if she continues to say that the war is mistaken, than the moment it is mistaken, than the place it is mistaken. That message is sent therefore to our troops, than message is sent to ours allies to you, than message it is sent to the iracheni ", the president has asserted, "In order to win it must be firm and risoluti".
Bush has not lacked to remember that the senator of the Massachusetts has changed to idea more times on the war. "the only coherence of my adversary is its incoherence", has said, "has changed position. Idea in this war against the terrorism cannot be changed, if it is wanted to be won. People know from that it leave I am I. Who is listening knows like the task ".

MULTILATERALISM - Kerry has admitted not to have been always skillful in facing the topic iracheno. It voted to favor of the armed participation, but it has then criticized as and until slid August it had said that it would have voted of new to favor. "I have store clerk an error in speaking about the war, but the president has store clerk an error in making it. Which of the two errors he is most serious ", it has beaten again, "We have need of a president who has the credibility in order to carry allies it you around to a table and that make that that the isolated America is necessary affinchè not rests. It is a job that the president has not made ". Bush has been forced from the adversary to dedicate great part of the debate, lead from a journalist, to defend own the chosen ones on the Iraq from the try accusation of having of distogliere the attention of the Country from the participation in Afghanistan and the unfruitful hunting to Osama bin Laden. "the Iraq was not neanche lontamente near the center of the war against the terrorism before that the president invaded it", stigmatizzato Kerry that, chasing the adversary, he has added: it is important to be strong and risoluti, "but we must also be wide awake". And still: "Not there was need of that cut to the taxes. The America had need of greater emergency ". The rispostsa of Bush: "Sure that we are making all the possible one in order protect the America. Wide awake me every morning thinking next to like protect $R-al.meglio the America. This is my job ".

I got it!! dennie is a political speech writer!!! Yes? No? Then he's related to Yoda.

Btw, personal opinion---Kerry 1, Bush 0.

Number of Americans whose minds were changed by the debate: 17

(Just kidding, folks!)

Seriously, though, I really have to wonder just how impactful these debates will be with repect to voters' decisions.

"I'm not sure intellectual property applies to politics"
I'm not sure ANYTHING intellectual applies to politics.


"Jon Stewart (Comedy Central) played this clip on his show, (including the pregnant pause and the blank stare) and looked at the audience repeating "a group of folks? a group of folks?"
That was pathetic. He kept pausing at that moment and repeating, "um" "and", picking through his notes to find the term he was supposed to use. It was obvious he couldn't find it and decided to ad lib "groups of folks". Just pathetic. I decided I couldn't watch anymore, so I went outside for a smoke. If I drank, I would have gotten drunk.
It's embarrassing to think that this fumbling, stuttering oaf is the leader of the free world.
Where did he come from, anyway? I've heard his brother, Jeb speak, and Jeb seems to be rather articlulate. And papa George wasn't a total lost cause. To think this man graduated from an Ivy League school. Guess our education system went to hell ALOT earlier than just the last 5 to 10 years.

They both suck and there is hardly a shade of difference between these two Skull and Bones or their parties. I'm voting for CodeWarrior/Ziemann in 04.

I watched CSPan this a.m. and I heard something interesting. A man and wife both heard the debate, and the wife saw it on television, and the husband, heard it on television (he didn't know she was watching it on tv).

That evening,they went to bed and the wife asked the husband who he thought won the debate. He said Bush, hands down...but only heard it on the radio. He HAD voted for GORE last time. His wife had voted for Bush last time, and she told him that KERRY won the debate, no question, and she told him he should have seen it on television.

So, in this case, Bush's tics and sarcastic faces seem to lose him votes perhaps.

I thought about that, Code. What if people who didn't watch it were given copies of the transcripts to read. Do you think it would have made a difference in the polls they took right after the debates? I know I can't stand to watch when George gets all sincere and stares so solemnly into the camera, as if he's speaking to each and every one of us. It makes me feel like taking a shower.

the only difference the debate made was to the suporters of the two candadates and the pundants. Personally I think Kerry held his own and did much better over all and was more convincing in his manner. however elections are not won by scoring debate points.
having said that I heard Kerry (no I didn't count or memorize the quotes as I have no vested intrest in promoting either candadate) condridict himself a few times as well and also send mixed messages. that's an unbiased view

I'm not certain that the "debates" (quotes indicate doubt of the correct term to describe them) are actually going to make that much of a difference with Joe Voter. I didnt pay as much attention to the general rhetoric that is the only communication of either party, as I did the format, phrasing, and responses to questions. I kept a scorecard of: actual answers/misleading "facts"/answers to completely different questions. Which do you think won in those categories? I also have decided that someone in the GOP camp is asleep at the wheel...PBS hosts as "Impartial Moderators" riiiiiight. The moderators are all slanted left, as the majority of the media are.
On that note, anyone notice that we spent 90 minutes talking about Iraq, North Korea, and 9/11, Homeland Security, etc. and only vaguely made gestures in the direction of border security? NEITHER candidate will close the borders, W likely because of business deals/labor issues in TX, and Kerry because....well, the Dems try to register every vote they can, Mexican citizen or not

Enough about this, time to stop debating the farce that is the political process, and start discussing how to replace it when it crumbles, and how to keep it from taking us with it.

Code,I gotta agree with you on the husband and wife having different views.
The pauses and body language have a huge impact on the idea of who won a debate.
This wasn't the first time it happened.

During one of Reagan's debates when he was running,he had just gotten over the flu,and looked terrible.Everyone who saw the debate on TV swore that his opponent won,while those on the radio said that Reagan won.
--
...Poland.
I loved that.

Kerry said we had no allies in Iraq,Bush says we had Tony Blair,and Alexander Kwasniewski of Poland.
Then later,Kerry said that it was the US,Australia,and Great Britain.

Then Bush chimes in with Poland again.
--
That just amused me...Not quite sure why,

Australia has been our ally in more wars than Britain in the last century. Thank you, Bruces!

I thought Kerry eloquently spoke his message. Which I thoroughly reject.

If a person prefers cheesecake and dislikes custard, a mediocre cheesecake will have much greater appeal over the greatest custard in the world.

Now, what do the Gallup polls show?

Kerry expressed himself more clearly -- 60% to 32%

Agreed with you more on issues you cared about -- Bush by a nose 49% to 46%

Bush was more believable -- 50% to 45%

Bush was more likable -- 48% to 41%

Bush demonstrated he is tough enough for the job -- 54% to 37%

Read 'em and weep.

Where are those figures from?
I've spoken to people who already know that they're voting Bush who have said that Bush lost the debate.

Did the people listen to the debate,or just watch it?
Things like that make a huge difference.

The Debate I want to see is on Medicare or Social Security.

I don't want some company like Enron taken care of my Medicare or
Social Security Like Bush is wanting. Is this what you want American.
Remember what happen to all those people that had their money in that
company they lost all their retirement money. And now they have to
try and find a Job. Remember this is what Bush wants for you. It's
not what I want. Who do you trust Bush to put your Social Security and
Medicare money into a campany Like Enron. Are John Kerry that wants
to leave it in the Governments hands.

Not Baghdad Bob anymore
Now Baghdad Bush