Here we are on the anniversary of a tragedy, one of the most shocking tragedies which this country has sustained since the Pearl Harbor attack.

Some say that the world changed on 9/11. Did the WORLD change on 9/11 in a way that it did not change when World War II was declared or the day the last dinosaur died and the mammals took over? I assert that if any monumental changes happened, it was not to the world itself, but to our country, and to me, those changes were for the worse. We started losing freedoms and liberties to a government who, under the guise of "protection" imposed laws that, like a virutal sword of Damocles, rest precariously above our collective heads. The most visual notice of that is the paranoia inducing "color code" alert that has stayed in an elevated status, never returning to "green" since the event that we commemorate.

Many will write long essays on this day in memorium of those who lost their lives on that fatal day. They will talk about the people who died in the Twin Towers as heroes. Were they heroes or merely victims of circumstance. Would they have volunteered to show up for work if they knew what would await them that day. We call soldiers on the battlefield heroes when they, knowing the dangers facing them , race headlong into the fray, risking their life, to save others or to end the withering fire of the enemy.

I think there ARE heroes to be sure. There were firemen who risked their lives that day and lost that most precious commodity, trying to save others.

But, there are heroes alive today, and I count those people who have to courage to speak out in a public way against the injustices going on in this country today, as heroes.
These people do not do so without facing real jeopardy. Perhaps they will not be killed, but imprisonment and prosecution can certainly be awaiting them.

Even displaying a humorous bumper sticker these days, which mocks the current administration, can bring a visit from the Secret Service.
http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=116898
"SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- A Salt Lake County man toting an anti-Bush bumper sticker on his car says his freedom of speech was violated when secret service agents paid him a visit.

Nineteen-year-old Derek Kjar (KARE) says agents showed up at his work and questioned him about whether he had terrorist ties after neighbors alerted them to the sticker.

The sticker features a black-and-white likeness of President Bush with a crown on his head. Under the image are the words "KING GEORGE -- OFF WITH HIS HEAD."

The Salt Lake City office of the Secret Service would not confirm they visited Kjar, but say they investigate all threats against the president.

Kjar says the agents left after he handed over the sticker."

To me, one of the people I find to be acting in a heroic manner, is John Young of Cryptome.org. John posts material on a wide variety of topics he finds on government websites and elsewhere. He has had ongoing intimidation attempts from the military, FBI, and just about every agency you can think of. But, with a great deal of intestinal fortitude, John just goes right along bringing the information forward to let the public decide about.

I am not, in ANY way, trying to minimize the loss of the people who lost loved ones. But, even those most closely affected by 9/11 are entering the political debate.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-families11sep11,1,3576046.story?coll=la-home-headlines
"Four 9/11 widows from New Jersey, who were dubbed "the Jersey girls," criticized the administration for its failure to pick up warnings about a possible attack on U.S. soil. Some other family members accused them of taking political cheap shots.

Debra Burlingame, whose brother Frank was the pilot of the American Airlines flight that crashed into the Pentagon, referred caustically to the Jersey girls and others as "rock stars of grief."

"When you are given a microphone and asked what you think, you have a responsibility to make reasoned, rational and fair statements," she said during a recent C-SPAN interview. It is wrong, Burlingame added, "to not be challenged because you're a 9/11 family member and everyone is afraid to say, 'You're dead wrong about this,' because you'll be somehow beating up on a widow."

It was precisely this aura, however, that both political parties capitalized on during their recent conventions. During the GOP meetings in New York, Burlingame appeared with two other 9/11 family members. They spoke in eloquent, hushed tones about loved ones who had died, and there was not a hint of politics."

On February 14,2004, some of the families of folks lost on 9/11 sent Mr. Bush a Valentine's Day greeting. http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0216-09.htm
This is what it said :
"9/11 Families Valentines Letter to President Bush
by Colleen Kelly, David Potorti and Kelly Campbell

February 14, 2004

Dear President Bush,

Two years ago today, family members of 9/11 victims lost at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and on Flight 93 launched a group called September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows. We chose Valentine¹s Day as a symbolic reminder that the American ideals of peace, justice and reconciliation remain vibrant, and did not die with our loved ones.

On that day, we held up a large heart containing a valentine letter to you. In the letter we asked to meet with you to discuss the creation of a fund to assist innocent victims of war in Afghanistan. We felt that it was not only a decent and moral response to those accidental deaths, but also a practical opportunity to demonstrate the same compassion that 9/11 family members received from all over the globe.

You chose not to meet with us, but since that day two years ago, the members of Peaceful Tomorrows have worked to display the best of America's ideals to the rest of the world. We secured congressional funding to assist Afghan civilians affected by the war. We connected with others around the world who have been similarly affected by terrorism and war. We stood with millions across the globe against the war in Iraq and for the cause of peace. And our group has grown as more 9/11 family members have found healing by turning their grief into action for peace. In contrast, you declared it was an 'us versus them' world, and pursued unilateral and unpopular policies that turned that world against the United States and made us less secure. And worst of all, you often used the deaths of our family members as an excuse to pursue that agenda.

Two years later, we ask you to stop exploiting the tragedy of September 11 for political gain and to join us in responding to that tragic day in a manner that brings about genuine healing and peace for Americans and the rest of the world.

We respectfully request a written response to the following questions:

1. You and members of your administration consistently invoked 9/11 as a justification for war in Iraq, without presenting any evidence of a link between Saddam Hussein¹s Iraq and the attacks of that day. The confusing and misleading statements made by your administration that allude to an unproven link have caused a majority of the US public, (up to 70% according to a Washington Post poll taken in September 2003) to believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for September 11.You have exploited the American public's genuine fear of another September 11 to pursue an unrelated war, which has already cost the lives of more than 500 US service people and an estimated 10,000 Iraqi civilians. We call upon you today to publicly acknowledge that your administration's statements have misled the American people, and to clarify that there is no evidence of a connection between the events of 9/11 and Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Please, Mr. President, will you correct this dangerous misperception?

2. In light of your announcement that the United States plans to step up the campaign to find Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan, we ask that you cease the tactic of bombing villages in an attempt to kill Bin Laden or other suspected Al Qaeda or Taliban leaders. In the past two years these village bombings have killed and injured countless innocent civilians, including children, while failing to achieve their stated aim. Since the beginning of 2003, media reports confirm that more than 64 civilians have been killed in at least six separate incidents of village bombings. Meanwhile, most top Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders have been captured through international cooperation, intelligence sharing, and police work, not the bombing of villagers. No one desires Bin Laden to be arrested and stand trial more than we do. Yet through continued bombing of innocent civilians, you have increased anti-American sentiment and created legions of potential future terrorists. We beg you, Mr. President, will you direct the military to cease the tactic of bombing villages in Afghanistan, and choose more effective methods to capture the criminals responsible for our loved ones deaths?

3. We ask you to stop playing politics with the 9/11 attacks. September 11 was many things, but it was a victory for no one but the terrorists. When your administration treats it like a success story and your political party uses the World Trade Center site as the backdrop for the Republican convention this fall, we are offended. We have witnessed the photograph of you on the telephone on September 11 sold by your campaign as a fundraising vehicle. We have read Republican party officials' acknowledgement that the national convention was planned in New York City at the latest possible date in order to 'flow seamlessly into the commemoration of 9/11.' And we have witnessed your administration's lack of cooperation with the Independent Commission investigating 9/11. On November 27, 2002, you stated, "the investigation should carefully examine all the evidence and follow all the facts, wherever they lead. We must uncover every detail and learn every lesson of September the 11th. It's our most solemn duty."We ask you today live up to that promise. As president of the United States, you well know that our nation's future is more important than any one person¹s political career. We ask you, Mr. President, will you renounce the exploitation of September 11th for partisan political gain?

You claim that September 11th made you a war president. But this is not true. By responding to the terrorism of 9/11 with an unending 'war on terror,'and a doctrine of pre-emptive war, you and your administration chose this path. After September 11, the entire world reached out to the United States with compassion. Rather than building on that good will and ushering the world into a new era of mutual cooperation, an effort that would have required true statesmanship and a willingness to deal honestly with the root causes of terrorism, you appealed to our fears and to the worst in human kind. Your domestic and foreign policies have reduced our nation's leadership, leaving us less secure, less free, less respected and less able to deal effectively with the genuine threat of 21st century terrorism.

This Valentine's Day, two years after the creation of September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, we call on you to open your heart, take accountability for your actions, and act now to set our nation on the path of real peace. This is the way to truly honor those who died on September 11 and who continue to live in our hearts. We look forward to your timely answers to our inquiries.

Sincerely,

September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows"

The letter goes unanswered.
---------------------
I know this article seems to be confused and wandering everywhere. I remember 9/11 and the experience of the it, to me, was confused and wandering. News reports , unconfirmed, were talking about schools being under attack and all kinds of things that were later shown to be mistakes.

Did the world change after 9/11? I say no. The world has been rocking along for millions of years through the Ice Age, through death of the dinosaurs, through the rise of the modern human, and in spite of the occasional strike by celestial bodies crashing to Earth.

Did America change after 9/11? I think yes, and not for the better.

Blessings and peace to all those survivors who lost loved ones on this day years ago.

Just my own reflections...
~CodeWarrior

How is one to put into words of that day?
I was in a hotel room in VA., just watching the morning news. All I could think was my family. We are from NYC so I tried my best to call them all but could not get in., all the lines were down. So I sat there watching the TV like many of us in rampage, of ferment of shock, of fury, of outrage, all in grieve and pitted pain. For two days I could not get in with the phone lines and all I could think was of my family.
When I finally got all of them and found all was safe in a way I felt good, but the lost and such a high loss was like an ocean wave of sicken mournful pain that would not go away.
I had some friends from South Sea port (sea shanty folks) and the e-mails I got from them in those coming day put chills down my back. The songwriter Jack Hardy lost his brother who was a cook on the top floor. Jack like so many keep looking for his brother in those few days when all seemed so losted but all keep looking and hoping.
Well, like I said, how is one to put into words of that day?
Still Pickin'
Bill H.

Bush's initial reaction on 9/11 was
"and I thought to myself 'Wow, that's one bad pilot."

"[Let me get this straight . . .] Osama Bin Laden kills 3000 Americans and is considered to be satan. Bush Kills 1000 Americans and he's a hero." Chris Rock

http://peacefultomorrows.org/#threeyearslater

Three Years Later:
Peaceful Tomorrows 9/11/04 Statement

Nearly three years ago, September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows was born out of a shared belief that America’s military response to the 9/11 attacks which took our loved ones’ lives would result in the deaths of countless innocent civilians and increase recruitment for terrorist causes, making the United States, and the world, less safe and less free for generations to come.

Today, as we commemorate September 11, 2004, we find that our worst fears have been realized. The terrorism of September 11th has been neither neutralized, nor ended, by the terrorism of war.

Since our bombing and military action in Afghanistan, resulting in the deaths of more than 130 American troops and an estimated 4,000 civilians – and compounded by our failure to rebuild that broken nation--we have seen the return of Taliban warlords, the departure of relief agencies, and the continuing deaths of American service people and innocent civilians. Afghan President Hamid Karzai has acknowledged that he is seeking the support of former Taliban officials in an effort to stabilize the political process. Osama bin Laden remains at large, and al-Qaeda remains a potent terrorist force, as evidenced by the March 11 train bombings in Madrid, Spain.

Our illegal, immoral and unjustified invasion of Iraq, a nation that had nothing to do with the September 11th attacks, has cost the lives of 1,000 American troops and an estimated 12,000 Iraqi civilians, while leaving tens of thousands of others physically and emotionally traumatized. Today, our continuing occupation, our failure to provide basic services like electricity and water, and our torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib has turned Iraq into a focus of anti-American sentiment where a new generation of terrorists is being recruited from around the world.

In Guantanamo, approximately 600 detainees from 40 countries remain incarcerated without charge and without access to lawyers. Those who have been returned to their home countries attest to conditions that violate the Geneva Conventions and our own democratic principles. In America, the USA Patriot Act gives government free reign to surveil law-abiding citizens. Restrictions on peaceful protest mock our Constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech and assembly. Meanwhile, bias crimes and discrimination continue to cast a shadow over our nation.

That all of this has been done in the names of our loved ones who died on September 11th makes the suffering of their innocent counterparts around the world even harder to take. When actions that are making the world less secure are carried out in the name of US security, we must reconsider the true sources of the security, freedom, and respect we once commanded around the globe.

Is the source of our security and freedom the exercise of overwhelming military power? Have we found security and freedom by dividing the world into "us and them," and labeling entire nations "evil"? Three years ago, the French declared, "We are all Americans," and Iranians held spontaneous candlelight vigils for our dead. Today, American prestige is at an all-time low. Friend and foe alike tremble at the sense of exceptionalism that drives America to conduct pre-emptive war.

And what example have we set by our use of violence as a tool for addressing complex grievances? In the past week, heartbreaking pictures of children abducted and killed in Russia remind us that terrorism against civilian populations, which did not begin on September 11th, has not abated as a result of our actions since then. In Iraq, abductions of more than 40 civilians from nations including Japan, Jordan, Italy, China, Ukraine, South Korea, Egypt, Nepal, India, Kenya, the Philippines, Bulgaria and our own have escalated the level of human suffering.

On September 11th, 2002, we urged America to participate fully in the global community, by honoring international treaties, endorsing and participating in the International Criminal Court, following the United Nations charter, and agreeing in word and action to the precepts of international law. Today, we redouble our call for America to return to full membership in the community of nations.

We call for an end to war as our nation's one blunt instrument of foreign policy in our increasingly complex world. We recognize that our freedoms and security derive not from politicians or the Pentagon, but from our Constitution, and call on all Americans to rise in its defense against the triple threats of fear, lies and ignorance.

Finally, we draw hope from those around the globe whose historical experiences of terrorism and war have brought them not to a place of vengeance, but to a commitment to creating a peaceful world. They include victims of the violence in Israel and Palestine; families of victims of the Bali nightclub bombing; family members of those killed in Oklahoma City; atomic bomb survivors from Hiroshima and Nagasaki; those who survived the bombing of Guernica, Spain and Dresden, Germany; those affected by terrorism in Kenya; Cambodia; Chechnya; South Africa; Northern Ireland; Bosnia; Sri Lanka and elsewhere. Through their witness and their efforts towards reconciliation, they have demonstrated that peace begins in the heart of every individual, and that people united have an unparalleled power to change the world.

Every day, we choose to create the world we want to live in, through our words and through our actions. Today, we reach out to others around the world who recognize that war is not the answer. Today, three years after September 11th, we continue to choose peace.

--September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows

well said..great post raoulduke1 !

I hate to say it - but when I speak to citizen of other nations - they were apathetic about what has happened. I understand that it is a real tragedy because these weren't people in combat but just people going about there daily lives. I usually follow up with "why do you not really think it was a big deal for the towers to be hit?" There response is: Well, the US finally experiences a fraction what the whole world goes through.
I just find that a little more enlightening on how the world views us.

I often wonder if Bush is doing a good job overall. Ever since he took office, I and many of my friends have found themselves losing thier jobs and having a hard time finding work elsewhere. Sad really. Then 9/11/2001 happened. I was not surprised to tell you the truth. I was in NYC in the WTC in 1993 2 weeks before the building was bombed. I knew about Usama Bin Laden When Clinton took office and I remember when his Secretary Of State Madeline Albright warned us about his threat of Al Qeda but we would not listen. We were warned about Islamic militants who were bent on destroying democracy and bringing an old world rule. But again, we would not listen. When the Soviets invaded Afganistan, we helped warlords like Bin Laden and the Soviets were defeated. The Russians warned us of dealing with Islamic militants...and again we did not listen. Now we have most Muslim Arabs who hate us becuase of IRAQ and Afganistan and our continuing ties with ISRAEL (which I do beleive ISRAEL has a right to exist). I do beleive that Bush has created an unsafe world for us. Sadaam Hussien had NOTHING to do with 9/11 (let's remind ourselves that his government had thier own dealings with radical islamic clerics who have threatened him and his people and even though Hussien is a murderer and a tyrant, he has crushed people like Bin Laden in his country). The Chinese also have dealt with Bin Laden-like tyrants and has killed them off. Sometimes there is NO REASONING with people like Bin Laden. Im not saying I agree with Bush, what I am saying is sometimes brute force is the only answer.

Brute force is the only thing that people like Bin Laden understand.

My experience is that, with regard to citizens in other countries, we had a wealth of empathy and sympathy from many after 9/11. This good will was squandered by the way Bush conducted the war, and now, we have probably more people than ever, hating out guts as a country worldwide than more than ever before. As I noted in my blog recently,
"From http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=9&id=311560 "
""Global opinion, including Japan, prefers Kerry over Bush: U.S. poll

Thursday, September 9, 2004 at 11:16 JST
WASHINGTON — People outside the United States prefer by a two-to-one margin to see Democratic candidate John Kerry beat incumbent President George W Bush in the U.S. presidential election in November, according to a survey released Wednesday.

In Japan, 43% backed Kerry and 23% favored Bush. Japan's support for Bush was the highest among industrialized countries.

In the 35 countries surveyed, including Britain, China, Germany, France and Russia, an average of 46% of respondents favored Kerry, while 20% preferred Bush, the University of Maryland survey said.

The survey, conducted in May and August, covered 34,330 people in the 35 countries selected from all regions of the world.

In 30 countries, a majority or plurality favored Kerry, while Bush was preferred in only three countries — the Philippines, Nigeria and Poland. India and Thailand were divided."

And from the same article...
"Norway favored Kerry the most with a support rate of 74%, followed by France with 64% and Canada with 61%.

Bush was the most popular in the Philippines with a support rate of 57%. This was followed by the Dominican Republic with 38% and Indonesia with 35%.

Bush is even unpopular with traditional U.S. allies such as Britain, where only 16% supported him, while 47% preferred Kerry. (Kyodo News)"

The most recent attacks on Citizens, are those being promoted by people who are supposed to be supporting the principles of the Constitution.

Osama didn't dream up the Induce Act...Saddam didn't pen the PIRATE Act,
Ayman al Zawahiri didn't introduce the PDEA.

Given the nature of what I perceive as domestically born terrorism against US Consumers...I think Messers Lamar Smith, Orrin Hatch, et al, should appear in videos in which they sit next to an AK-47 and are shown tearing up the constitution on screen. As they work to criminalize millions of voters and digital consumers daily, I think about something Bush said that ties in with Al Qaeda. Al Qauda literally means "The Base"...and Bush said...."Some people call you the elite, I call you my base." Since my Arabic is not good enough to figure out how to use "my base" (ana is the personal pronoun or "I" in Arabic though)...if one translates Bush's "My base" to "the base" we could say hew as saying...
"Some people call you the elite, I call you al Qaeda."

Hmmmmmmmmmm

what's with this "TRIAL" and Evaluation crap?

MPEG4 should be freely accessible if it is to be a universal format...
ok..M$ Word "doc" has become an almost default universal format for documents and it isn't free...but on the other hand, you don't get charged each time you use an MP3 song format!

sorry...wrong post...replying to another story....how did this happen?

http://www.bloglines.com/blog/Codewarrior
THE SHOCK and AWE Election

"God, more than 200 years ago,
We've been the bastion of
Freedom...

The light which keeps the free world
Aglow.

We do not covet the possesions of
Others, we are blessed with the
Bounty we share.

We have rushed to help other

Nations...anything...anytime...
Anywhere.

War is just not our nature... we
Won't start, but we will end the fight.

If we are involved we shall be
Resolved to protect what we know is
Right.

We've been challenged by a
Cowardly foe who strikes and then
Hides from our view.

With one voice we say there's no
Choice today, there is only one
Thing to do.

Everyone is saying the same thing
And praying that we end these
Senseless moments we are living.

As our fathers did before, we shall
Win this unwanted war.

And our children will enjoy the
Future, we'll be giving. "

-Jack Buck, Bush Stadium, St. Louis, Missouri

"Osama didn't dream up the Induce Act"

Oh but he did. His entire goal was to have our government clamp down on our freedoms and sucker us into invading an Arab nation. Wow are we total fucking idiots or what. We invaded two Arab nations. Ok maybe one and a half. Bush is the puppet and Osama is pulling the strings.

"We've been challenged by a
Cowardly foe who strikes and then
Hides from our view."

It's true, the REAL SLIM CHENEY does have a secret bunker he
hides from our view in...
http://rense.com/general53/asgi.htm
TIME Reveals Cheney's
Secret Bunker - White
House Angered
"
Top White House officials expressed anger after TIME magazine detailed the location of Vice President Dick Cheney's secret bunker, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

In new editions, TIME revealed "Site R," an underground bunker on the Maryland-Pennsylvania border where the Vice President spent much of his time in 2001.

TIME wrote: "Deep under Raven Rock Mountain, Site R is a secret world of five buildings, each three stories tall, computer filled caverns and a subterranean water reservoir. It is just 7 miles from Camp David."

Raven Rock Mountain is easily found using basic geographical maps.

One White House officials fumed Monday night: "TIME magazine would have revealed secret the location of Anne Frank, if they knew it."

"War is just not our nature... we
Won't start, but we will end the fight."

But apparently, King George the Cowardly wants us to think it is HIS nature...
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4179618/
In Bush's interview with Tim Russert...
"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign-policy matters with war on my mind. Again, I wish it wasn't true, but it is true. And the American people need to know they got a president who sees the world the way it is. And I see dangers that exist, and it's important for us to deal with them."

(~CW Note...if Bush had steel balls to roll around in his hand during the interview, the President Queeg (i.e. Captain Queeg from The Caine Mutiny)scenario would be perfect...but as we know, Bush has no balls.)

This is in response to the coments about other countries views of America:

First, let it be made clear that I think that the 11/9 terrorist attacks were pretty much the worst thing that could - that HAS - happened to a country.

But then I think the same way about the PATRIOT act.....

I am a citizen of a country that to many observers is basicly the extra US state - the United Kingdom.
However, in a recent General Studies lesson at my college (General Studies is a blanket Political/Social/Scientific course that is a requirement for all pupils taking higher education) the teacher asked a question:
What is going to happen at the US election?

Going round the class the response was "Bush will win."
The teacher replied "But Kerry is ahead in the polls " (He was at the time) "Why won't he win?"

The response to that was: "They just don't get it."
another person said "They have a f*cked up media."
someone else then said "Fox News"
and this was met with laughter at the stupidity of the situation.

In another lesson we looked at Philip Pullmans anti religious ideas and were asked to comment. I got an A for my anti-religious presentation.

And, in another lesson we watched "Bowling for Collumbine".

In one more lesson that I can be bothered to mention we discussed whether cannibis should be legalised.

Now... I imagine there are now several people fuming at this, but the key to these lessons which we are LEGALLY BOUND TO ATTEND is to make us *think* about what goes on in the world.

Also these "liberal" views were coming from possibly the most conservative area in the country: my home town - Royal Tunbridge Wells - there I said it online.

Look us up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunbridge_Wells

"Tunbridge Wells is traditionally associated with the prim middle classes, especially in the locution 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells'. This phrase was apocryphally used to sign a letter to a newspaper some time in the nineteenth century, and has remained in circulation because of its perceived aptness in describing the inhabitants of the town. "

When was the last time children in a US school were asked to think of ways to criticise their country? When was the last time that the strengths and weaknesses of communism vs capitalism were considered in the classroom?

There is a point to this post. It is:

When an event that should be something to be held in memory as a devastating tradgedy is hijacked by a leader to pass ridiculous laws, to start wars based on incorrect claims (that Saddam had something to with the terror attacks) then people are not thinking.

Think about that! People are not actually thinking about what they are being told. Media both here and in the states showed celebrities (in the pay of the Music/Film industry of course) saying that we should "trust" the president.

What ever happened to good old cynicism?

The event has been hijacked. I believe any feeling that may have been felt towards America globally has probably dried up.

This is a shame, I know many Americans, and they are mostly good people - but it looks like its going to be another win for Bush regardless of what people actually think, or what the polls say.

Oh and anyone who says this is unconnected with BoycottRIAA, or Dmusic, or wherever else this is visible - I say this.

We've already seen lobbyists and the media using doublespeak and twisted facts to convice us that Piracy is Evil and that Copyright is something that is under attack from Digital Terrorists..... watch where else the same thing is happening.

Oh well.. rant over.

Wow. Let's try not to disgrace a touching moment by a now dead man.

Something TheRealJFM said (great post by the way) made me think of a new slant on things. It is not spirituality or a religious mind that is evil, it is ORGANIZED and BUREAUCRATICIZED religion and/or spirituality that is evil. The same is true with almost any human enterprise. When the US was a small, ragtag group of freedom loving rabble rousers, in their hearts, as in our hearts, beat the drums of freedom. But, as organization and bureaucracy has become more and more institutionalized and formalized, the evil in our government has grown, and I am not saying this is true of Demos or Repubs. Indeed, two of the most fascist things happened on Bill Clinton's watch, i.e. the passage of the DMCA, and the massacre at Waco.

We can go back to ancient China, to Rome, to the Aztec nation. As a group of individuals form a group, and as that group becomes more "organized, formalized, and bureaucratized", the evil grows. It is my belief that bureaucracy is the womb of evil.

Take the Romans. They started out as a farming community, but as they became a more and more structured government, they started their imperialistic period, and during this period, they became more decadent, more depraved, and more evil, til, finally, in my opinion, they became more evil than just about any government this world has known, and lest people fail to accept this...we have just to look at the Nazi party and see that Hitler copied a lot of the symbols, pageantry, and salutes from the Roman empire.

And, it is equally manifest that as countries adopt this formalized, layer upon layer bureaucratic structure, the importance and freedom of the individual becomes less and less important, until the indivudal citizen is seen as just a functonary of the government, just fodder for the machine.

With multiple mega-databases out there, this country, with its Homeland Security, terror threat color code system (like Garanimals run mad), this country has the capability of becoming the home of great evil.

The whole fiasco at Abu G. prison was like something out of the Twilight Zone. Even now, as I look at those pictures of those bodies piled into some sort of sado-masochistic tower of babel, the pyramid of depravity, on some websites, with Miss Applachia 2004, Lynndie England, cigarette dangling out of her mouth, pregnant laughing and pointing at a prisoner's genitals, and another picture of her holding a leash on a naked Iraqi prisoner lying prone on the floor, IS THIS what the Founding Fathers risked their families, their lives, and their fortunes for? Is this what my father risked his life in World War II for?

Some would say...oh, that was just an abberation. It was a bunch of nuts having fun in a remote Iraqi prison, blowing off steam. To that I say, balderdash. The responsibility for that goes very much higher up the military food chain than some privates having a little fun without anyone knowing.

We know the anger we feel at seeing the beheadings, or the bodies of our service men dragged in the streets in Somalia. Do you think the wives and sisters of these men in those pictures at Abu G. think kindly of Americans? And, yes, there were innocents killed by our troops over there as well.

People are not the problem. It is when people are organized into the structured environment of a corporation or government that the evil creeps in and takes them over.

For the record - whether it means anything or not - I noticed a sharp rise in the number of people uploading Fahrenheit 9/11 in the past few days, as well as uploads of various other anti-bush media (i.e. the picture with the upside-down book, the "fool me once" clip). I have not seen any corresponding uptick in people uploading any anti-kerry media.

"Osama didn't dream up the Induce Act...Saddam didn't pen the PIRATE Act,
Ayman al Zawahiri didn't introduce the PDEA."

I would rather live in fear of the terrorists than of my own government.

Shmoo, of Electric Gypsy
Support Local and Independent Music!

"I would rather live in fear of the terrorists than of my own government."

Ashcroft might spy on you. He might lock you away for a while.

But bin Laden would sooner blow you away than look at you. Saddam would put you in a mass grave.

We really must have a sense of proportion. Ashcroft is to Bin Laden as a pocket lighter is to a flamethrower.

Really you would not rather live in fear of terrorists. If so, you are in the minority. And that simple truth is why Americans will accept some infringement of their freedoms, which we admittedly do not want or like, for a feeling of being safer from the other alternative.

Yes, that's dangerous, but that is where we are. People want to feel safe, and right now they perceive terrorists as the bigger threat. I think they're correct.

" "Osama didn't dream up the Induce Act...Saddam didn't pen the PIRATE Act,
Ayman al Zawahiri didn't introduce the PDEA."

I would rather live in fear of the terrorists than of my own government."

Hmmm...I don't see the logic in these statements. A choice between corporate/government entities that want to restrict my access to free music or guerilla groups who engage in the beheadings of civilians and the wholesale slaughter of children. Is there really a question here?

If you really think that way, that we should accept a loss of our freedoms just because some crazy terrorist zealots might occasionally be able to deal us a blow or 2 here and there then the terrorists have won.

What rights/freedoms are you gonna happily give up now that North Korea has tested a fucking atomic bomb???

Give up all YOUR rights and freedoms all you want, just DON'T GO GIVING AWAY MINE!

Shmoo
Deep Shit is on the way!

actulally, the terrorists would only like to kill those that would enable more fear. they don't want to kill everyone...there would be no one left to be scared. they want to cause "sensationalism". Ashcroft and Bush would like to put tracking devides on everone, get rid of the constitution, shoot those that disapprove of them, etc. oh and don't forget lock you up and throw away the key. i'm not afraid of the terrorists. why? security is a joke. four mexicans (illegally in the US) were found on Norfolk Naval Base, the largest naval base in the world. if we can't keep mexicans off of our naval base, how can we keep terrorists out of a whole country? i'd rather take my chance with the tiny remote chance that i might die, than be locked up for the rest of my life because i feel Bush/Ashcroft/Cheney should be tried and executed as traitors. (by the law of course)

I don't want to live in fear...period.

But, I have been followed by cops looking to give me a ticket for anything I do wrong especially during their "quota" time...and
that six foot four, kidney dialysis carrying rich guy Osama never HAS tailed me in traffic, getting about three feet off my bumper.

So yeah, I worry more about our own gov than I do about some rich Saudi allegedly ...

Even Donald Rumsfeld can't keep things straight....
Rumsfeld Mixes Up U.S. Foes Saddam and Bin Laden
September 10,2004
"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld mixed up al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and deposed Iraqi President Saddam Hussein twice in a speech on Friday about the war against terrorism.
Critics accuse the Bush administration of having concentrated on going after Saddam at the expense of the hunt for bin Laden whose al Qaeda network carried out the Sept. 11 attacks.

Saddam is imprisoned after being captured by U.S. forces in Iraq, while bin Laden has not been found.

In a speech to the National Press Club on the eve of the third anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, Rumsfeld began by saying the world just before the attacks was not as serene as some people now suggest.

"The leader of the opposition Northern Alliance, Masood, lay dead, his murder ordered by Saddam Hussein, by Osama bin Laden, Taliban's co-conspirator," Rumsfeld said.

He was referring to Ahmad Shah Masood who was in opposition to the ruling Taliban in Afghanistan and was killed by al Qaeda two days before the Sept. 11 attacks.

Later in responding to a question, Rumsfeld again confused Saddam and bin Laden in a discourse about how U.S. and coalition actions had made it more difficult for terrorists to operate.

"It's harder for them to travel between countries, it's harder for them to communicate with each other, it's harder for them to raise money, it's harder for them to transfer money, it's harder for them to buy weapons, it's harder for them to do everything," Rumsfeld said.

"Saddam Hussein, if he's alive, is spending a whale of a lot of time trying to not get caught. And we've not seen him on a video since 2001," Rumsfeld said.

"Now, he's got to be busy. Why is he busy? It's because of the pressure that's being put on him," he added.

The moderator later asked Rumsfeld if he had meant bin Laden, and the defense secretary replied: "I did. I meant we haven't seen Osama bin Laden."

RUMMIE MUSES MORE
If you remember. some time back, Rumsfeld had Osama pinned down to:
"...either in Afghanistan, or some other country or dead.''
Source From http://multimedia.belointeractive.com/attack/binladen/1228whereisbinladen.html

And, equally prescient was Rummie's decision that, Osama....

"I don't think he's vanished. He's either dead in some tunnel, or he's


alive. And if he's alive, he's either in Afghanistan or he isn't. And


it does not matter: we'll find him one day. And we'll know what's

Now, apparently, when Rummie looks for something...he has an interesting
way of locating it...let's say he lost his wallet....

He would say this...
"It's either in the pocket of these pants, some other pants I own, or somewhere else in the universe."

Way to figure it out Rummie!
happened," Rumsfeld said."
http://telaviv.usembassy.gov/publish/peace/archives/2001/december/122006.html

"Some people call you the elite, I call you my base."

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!

That got jumbled...
Rummie said (source is telaviv.usembassy.gov)
"I don't think he's vanished. He's either dead in some tunnel, or he's
alive. And if he's alive, he's either in Afghanistan or he isn't. And
it does not matter: we'll find him one day. And we'll know what's
happened."

The illusion of safety for the lost of freedoms, is still an illusion. You have gain nothing but lost it all. Your rights as an American citizen is the only thing you have to redress the government. All for just an illusion of safety, Papers Please.

"illusion of safety for the loss of freedoms is still an illusion."
Eloquently stated!

Broken record: Those who surrender liberties for security will eventually have neither.

Problem: Not enough people will believe the truth of this until it will be too late to do anything about it.

Regarding "...until it will be too late to do anything about it":
That's what the 'globalism facilitators' are counting on, sad to say.

Damn straight DemandRelevance!

Thanks, Schmoo.

In another forum, dubbsakk wrote how he wondered where the many, many billions of dollars are going to come from (for the F.B.I. to do all this combating "cyber-crime") when we don't even have the resources to secure our nation's borders...
And, referring to the issue of us citizens being asked to sacrifice liberties for the common good of so-called national 'security', dubbsakk wrote:
"How can you protect our freedom by taking it away?"

That fits right in with what hawk7771 wrote:
"The illusion of safety (to compensate for) the loss of freedoms is still an illusion."

You guys are right on the bulls-eye.
I just wish more Americans could learn the truth as we know it.

I can't help it; I just had to put these two thoughts together side by side:

How can our freedom be protected by having it taken away?
The illusion of safety (as if to 'compensate' for) the loss of freedoms is still an illusion!

Oops! I meant Shmoo (not "Schmoo").
Sorry.

No prob DemandRelevance. You have a constitutional right to call me (or mis-spell me) anything you want. Besides, if I ever get sued for trademark/copyright infringement by whomever owns the similarly named Lil' Abner character, I may have to change the spelling of my nickname. But that strip was from the 20's and 30's... maybe the "shmoo" is now public domain? Anyone know?

(BTW, even tho I am sure nobody cares, "Shmoo" is the initials of my full name Michael Howard Steely reversed with some vowels stuck at the end.)



Back twords being on topic:

Terrorists abound (and are actually growing in numbers.) It is unrealistic to think we can rid the world of them because "terrorism" is a tactic used by those who stoop to such a low level in their politics/religion/whatever. There is no such thing as a "war on terrorism." We need to call things what they really are. Sure, we can (must and should) fight/strive against terrorism... but the struggle will be more of a police action and intelligence/spy thingy than a "war." The threat Al Queda poses IS real, but is blown out of proportion compared to the very rights and freedoms that define us as a society that many would have us unjustifiably surrender to make us "feel" safer. My point is, there are many in our own govenment and in our society who are in positions of power (corporations) that KNOW this to be the case. They are dispicable because they hype up the fear caused by the terrorists to steal our freedoms in the name of this "war on terror" in order to further advance their own power/religion/wealth.

Ergo, I really mean it when I say I fear my own government more than the terrorists.

Shmoo

"[Let me get this straight . . .] Osama Bin Laden kills 3000 Americans and is considered to be satan. Bush Kills 1000 Americans and he's a hero." Chris Rock

This is a very extreme viewpoint. I don't remember folks accusing Bill Clinton of "killing" scores of Americans for the incursion into Somalia or Serbia.
Neither of these countries attacked us first, and they never in their history had any chemical weapons or worked with Al Quaida.

I just gotta emote one thing; XD!

This is some of the best fuel I've read for my righteous fire in a week. I haven't even seen one "hey, you! piss off, your opinions don't mean ANYTHING to me because you misspelled insane, it's INSANE, not "inane", idioh."

I think my math's right... if the world voted for our president in addition to ourselves... even if every American voted for Bush, wouldn't Bush still lose at the current polls?

Again; XD!

And I'll ke'ill anyone who tries to take my rights! Back, bitch! MY RIGHTS!! *swings his stick with a nail stuck in the end around*

""[Let me get this straight . . .] Osama Bin Laden kills 3000 Americans and is considered to be satan. Bush Kills 1000 Americans and he's a hero." Chris Rock"

uh, it was CHRIS ROCK that said that... it was a JOKE for christsake... sure, he was making a political point, but it was still just a gag.

Even I, one of those "die-hard lefty types" don't claim that W directly "killed" 1000 of our troops. (We may blame him for wrongfully invading a country that did not pose an immediate threat and the soldiers who died did so for a wrong wrong reason...)

But Jeez, I may hate it that W and those "neo" conserves are in office, but they are still Americans. It ain't like I want them dead or anything. (Just don't vote for them!)

Right on target! (Vote neo-cons out! The neo-cons want to 'con' us out of our choices and our rights.)

Vote independently or libertarian, I mean.
Neither major party is to be trusted at all.