Ok . Lets try for 1,000 posts on this one.
__________________________________________________
from Politicalcompass.org ( a great site - ed.)

Welcome to The Political Compass.

There's abundant evidence for the need of it. The old one-dimensional categories of 'right' and 'left' , established for the seating arrangement of the French National Assembly of 1789, are overly simplistic for today's complex political landscape. For example, who are the 'conservatives' in today's Russia? Are they the unreconstructed Stalinists, or the reformers who have adopted the right-wing views of conservatives like Margaret Thatcher ?

On the standard left-right scale, how do you distinguish leftists like Stalin and Gandhi? It's not sufficient to say that Stalin was simply more left than Gandhi. There are fundamental political differences between them that the old categories on their own can't explain. Similarly, we generally describe social reactionaries as 'right-wingers', yet that leaves left-wing reactionaries like Robert Mugabe and Pol Pot off the hook.
That's about as much as we should tell you for now. After you've responded to the following propositions during the next 3-5 minutes, all will be explained. In each instance, you're asked to choose the response that best describes your feeling: Strongly Disagree, Disagree, Agree or Strongly Agree. At the end of the test, you'll be given the compass, with your own special position on it.
The test is entirely anonymous. None of your personal details are required, and nothing about your result is recorded or logged in any way. The answers are only used to calculate your reading, and cannot be accessed by anyone, ever.
The idea was developed by a political journalist with a university counselling background, assisted by a professor of social history. They're indebted to people like Wilhelm Reich and Theodor Adorno for their ground-breaking work in this field. We believe that, in an age of diminishing ideology, a new generation in particular will get a better idea of where they stand politically - and the sort of political company they keep.
So are you ready to take the test? Remember that there's no right, wrong or ideal response. It's simply a measure of attitudes and inevitable human contradictions to provide a more integrated definition of where people and parties are really at. Click here to start.
If you wish to contact us, email info@politicalcompass.org.

And you thought what does this have to do with music!

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/images/composers.gif

actually no, after I found this article

http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.asp?m=678768

pretty much nothing surprises me anymore

I saw that request for U.N. intervention in the U.S. elections. Weird, but truth is stranger than fiction, eh?

Probably the same crew from Florida that couldn't get a senator to sign their petition to congress in 2000 ( from Moore's Movie).

First reply from me is the thought that President Carter has spent his retirement years going all over the world monitoring elections in third-rate backwater hellhole countries. That's amusing, considering that the US has no moral authority after the UnElection 2000 debacle in Florida.

A number of commentators (or as the Outfoxed documnetary proclaims the use of Fox News "some people say)--are mentioning that our use of the Nazi analogy is being replaced by the idea that the US now more closely resembles Latin America convulsions. Specifically the 'disappeared ones" in Argentina. A miltary coup every 18 months.

As you know L:eflaw, the music lists have administrators deleting and censoring. Take a look at VelvetRope, Julie is once again deleting threads. And pho list has a 100% policy of throwing you offlist with no warning for bringing up any political discussions.

It seems to me that we have a dedicated group of core conversationalists here. We actually know each other pretty well, so I would suggest that you all hang in there and discuss the issues. We really don't have many hit and run anonymous cowards do we? If i disagree with someone's poltical ignorance then I suggest that we are all in the same lifeboat here in Dmusic and the rules of debate demand that you back up your assertions and bluster with links and prove-of-concept.

I assume that Leflaw's thread is a proof that issues of privacy, surveillance and shutting down the internet is a GLOBAL EFFORT by the RIAA, MPAA and IFPI. I would say that the hatred of those groups is unprecedented in history, and is a backlash demonstrating the incredible potential that the internet age has handed to the State to crack down on free speech.

I doubt if anyone here disagrees with that contention.

I will continue doing my job here, and so will Code. That entails staying on top of the pigs. If you know me at all, or glanced at my writings this last year, you realize that I have no faith whatsoever in the election process.

You won't get any rise out of me with Clinton Hate. Looking at the long picture, even if Kerry is elected, we have some real mountains to climb. So I say----we won't back down nor let up on the pressure tactics. If Congress and the Courts will not listen to the Popular Will, then we'll be in the streets.

Here's to enlightened discussion, folks.

Actually, I am thinking of this site as a combination of the original Rolling stone Magazine circa 1968 and Mp3.com with a little AOL and Yahoo groups thrown in.

1,000 posts.. at least this isn't something that is going to end up pissing a bunch of people off.


Economic Left/Right: -3.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.08

Hey maybe it's just you and me for 1200 posts Leflaw. probably a little more enlightening than Sherminator staying up all night talking to himself. How old are you guys, Sherm (and you too awehr)---have you attained drinking age yet? Have you dictated your will yet--because you're insane if you think the draft isn't around the corner, and massive miltary deployment for 100 years around the world--regardless of whether Bush or Kerry is in the White House.

The thread is about the corporations. I can go on at length about that subject, and I don't think anyone in Dmusic community disagrees that is the problem. Several subthreads could dwell at length on the problems of manufacturing music like sausage and the creeps that perpetuate it in the halls of AOL/Sony/Disney/EMI.

I've gotten some glimmers and citations from Dmusic peeps about courts granting "personhood" to corporations. That's valuable insight and I appreciate it.

Corporatism is the leading theme in my life rigt now. See Leflaw.com .

And go light on Sherminator. He/she is a friend of mine.



Leflaw
Same quadrant as Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Ghandi, except armed.

1200 posts? Drinking age? conversation about evil corporations? I'm not up for that much typing but I just put up a new dartboard in my family room and I've got a case of Killians red in the fridge. come on over and we'll settle this over a game of cricket

As I was writing a response to the ‘Fair and Balance’ article, I failed to read this one, where the comment would probably would have been more appropriate.

To repeat, I brought up the thought of ‘longitude’ in a discussion. Longitude generally being referred to in the sense of a person adrift in the middle of the ocean. From simple observation, one can generally deduce if they north or south of the equator, but without accurate instrumentation they cannot determine the east or west position.

I think that too many of our topics get away from the ‘global’ aspect of the political and industrial practices because it is merely a hot debate about whether you are in agreement we me or not. That the thought both debaters are far left or far right of the truth never seems to cross anyone’s mind.

To me, there is one simple political and economic theory – ‘follow the money’.

Me

Economic Left/Right: -7.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.72

heh, practically in Ghandi's lap.
go figure.

oh,
Also armed .. heavily

I took the test and broke the needle on the barometer. I suspect that telling you my score would allow you to to label me, so I'll forego telling you my result.

It is to the left and south of Ghandi.

Some of those questions draw a "say what?" response. All in all, I am fascinated that any number of those topics would be great discussion material here on Dmusic. Or a poll. Great call, Leflaw, I like it and will investigate the site further.

I like your comment on longitude. I am in the grips of Thomas Franks' book 'What's the Matter with Kansas?" (Also serialized in Harper's Magazine) I urge you all to read it. It's creating a sensation. This explains away a great deal of my confusion regarding the reasons the industrial, labor and agricultural Midwest and the South have gone solid Republican and votes against its own economic interests, in effect handing the knife to the rich elites to stab itself in the heart.

My own expertise is in media manipulation,and I have been divining the tea-leaves and puzzling why propaganda has so succeeded so well and what we can do about it. (short of lining up the aristocrats against the wall and shooting them). Why the brilliant billionaire-financed right-wing takeover of democracy has convinced the labor class to vote against its own interests. "What's The Matter with Kansas" declares that the answer is the culture wedge. And certainly the Amerian Enterprise Institute, Federalist Society and Heritage Foundation have brilliantly stayed on message, relentlessly succeeding in diverting attention from all revelations of scandal, greed, avoidance of military service, religious cynicism and criminal incompetence.

But this book really clarifies a lot for me. Like the poll test indicates, any one of us has a certain belief system that is not protects your own economic self-interest---but importantly---you also have a cultural world view. This would allow you for example to be a member of The Cato Society (hardcore Ayn Rand or Milton Freidman follower)--and yet your compass in the culutral values index would say, "I live in San Francisco, I am a passionate believer in racial Gumbo and gay marriages." Again, you can be a radical property-hating Pinko wingnut on economics and simultaneously advocate hangings for gays.

So more people are characterizing themselves as mix 'n match flavors such as "I am Progressive on taxation, conservative on family vaues" or any combination of the above. But certainly no one uses the L Word anymore to describe themselves, anymore than saying "I drink lattes, love French culture and drive an Audi.". The word "liberal" has been consigned to the dustin of history. Maybe we should sell Dmusic t-shirts on Cafe Press, like a barcode logo that lets people know instantly where you stand when attending a singles bar or Bonnaroo concert.

Im just a little bit to the left of George Bush, and barley south of him

This is right on the spot for the site. I voiced my opinion about corporatism being at the root of the RIAA problem before. I'm not sure about fascism and corporatism, fascism has more components and I find it difficult to link them so directly.

Good questions, leflaw, let's conduct a poll.

Examples:

No one chooses their country of birth, so it's foolish to be proud of it.

Our race has many superior qualities, compared to other races.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Military action that defies international law is sometimes justified.

Land shouldn't be a commodity to be bought and sold.

Many personal fortunes are made by people who simply manipulate money and contribute nothing to their society.

Protectionism is sometimes necessary in trade.

The only social responsibility of a company should be to deliver a profit to its shareholders.

The rich are too highly taxed

The only one I can think of that is missing, I'll send a shoutout to Lachatte on this one:

"I sleep better at night knowing that my husband/wife/sibling/significant other is heavily armed."

Discuss.

Whoa, just checked out the hunting.net website. It's a good one for Code Warrior, he's everywhere. Tell us whatcha think, Code.

According to a PBS show I watched this weekend, liberal thought presupposes that humans are rational, that all you need to do is present the facts, and rational conclusions will be drawn.

Apparently this is wrong, and the Republicans have figured this out and know how to frame issues to manipulate thought.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff_p2.shtml
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/lakoff.html

And speaking of two of these companies (TimeWarner and Disney) -- I read in a recent article that these two concerns are co-financiers of the International Criminal Court that is currently trying former Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic on allegations of war crimes -- a court, by the way, that was started (and is chiefly funded) by Hungarian-born billionaire George Soros who has openly sought to influence this year's elections here with his own money (that is, he's bragged that he plans to use all his fortune to bring down Bush). He has also, in the past, "played with" the economies of such countries as Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Malaysia (which, in the latter case, is speculated to have prompted former P.M. Mahathir Mohamad's canard of Jews ruling the world "by proxy").

Whether one loves or hates Bush, the fact that someone like Soros can try to influence the outcome of an election in this (or any other) country, what with his internationalist, One World bent, should send chills up anyone's spine.

And who knows whether Soros is on the RIAA-MPAA-IFPI (talk about axis of evil) side with respect to the rigidification and fascistization of copyright law in America and, probably, the world?

Actually Fascism = Communism
...a little balance to the discussion...
http://www.tfp.org/what_we_think/fascism.html

I'm taking this little test now. Some of the questions are not fleshed out enough for me to feel good in answering.

And I really don't want to take it several times covering all my options and combinations.

Leflaw

Thanks for re-posting politicalcompass.org as a focus article for me. I think it will go a long way understanding amongst ourselves that party affiliation many times has little to do with nuts and bolts beliefs.


Those that went there - make sure to check out the ichonisms section at politicalcompass. That little quiz is an eyeopener in of itself (who woulda ever thought that ghandi and churchil talked nice about hitler?)

Economic Left/Right: -3
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3

Sherm - thanks for taking the leap on the test. I know the questions sounded out there but what most of us are finding is that were really closer to the same basic beliefs than our political party affiliation/support would have us believe. Lets face it - thats just a result of good advertising

Yolts north east - yet still here on the correct side of the issues.

Noam on totalitarianism/fascism.

I know to some this is out there but - according to Noam Chomsky: (excerpt from 'Media Control')

"The people in the public relations industry aren't there for the fun of it. They're doing work. They're trying to instill the right values. In fact, they have a conception of what democracy ought to be: It ought to be a system in which the specialized class is trained to work in the service of the masters, the people who own the society. The rest of the population ought to be deprived of any form of organization, because organization just causes trouble. They ought to be sitting alone in the front of the TV and having drilled into their heads the message, which says, the only value in life is to have more commodities or live like that rich middle class family you're watching and to have nice values like harmony and Americanism. That's all there is in life. You may think in your own head that there's got to be more in life than this, but since you're watching the tube alone you assume, I must be crazy, because that's all that's going on over there. And since there is no organization permitted-- that's absolutely crucial-- you never have a way of finding out whether you are crazy, and you just assume it, because its a natural thing to assume."

Said in reference to the "Creel Comission' which is the group that converted the states from isolationists into rabid german haters nearly over night.

One more from the same chapter:

"Unions are virtually nonexistent. Other forms of popular structure are virtually nonexistent. There are no political parties or organizations. It's a long way toward the ideal, at least structurally. The media are a corporate monopoly. They have the same point of view. The two parties are two factions of the business party. Most of the population doesn't even bother voting because it looks meaningless. They're marginalized and properly distracted. At least that's the goal. The leading figure in the public relations industry, Edward Bernays, actually came out of the Creel Commission. He was part of it, learned his lessons there and went on to develop what he called the "engineering of consent" which he described as "the essence of democracy". The people who are able to engineer consent are the ones who have the resources and the power to do it-- the business community -- and thats who you work for."


This book is only 99 pages. I've read it 4 times. This guy doesn't mess around with what he's saying. I strongly recommend reading it. You don't have to be a 'leftie' to recognize what he's saying has merit.

Look up the Creel Comission, its the birth place of modern public relations.

This crystalizes my thinking. The anti-corporate party will get nowhere until it

a) Organizes.
b) Gets access to money making machinery.

There is no way around it.

"The people who are able to engineer consent are the ones who have the resources and the power to do it-- the business community -- and thats who you work for."

What can replace the "business commmunity" in this statement?

Hmm, so there's libertarian right and libertarian left.

Me: Libertarian left, -4.00, -4.67

Corporations, religons whatever. people will form groups and as groups they can weild power. Theard just has to rise up and push back those who gain too much power. One day Microsoft, news Corp and GE will go the way of Atari and Leif Garret.

The importance of Howard Dean's grass roots money raising is become evident.

"probably a little more enlightening than Sherminator staying up all night talking to himself."

"How old are you guys, Sherm (and you too awehr)---have you attained drinking age yet? Have you dictated your will yet--because you're insane if you think the draft isn't around the corner, and massive miltary deployment for 100 years around the world-"

The only reason I'm talking to myself is because you refuse to listen. Stop posting stupid off topic crap. Just because I'm the only one that won't drop it doesn't mean I'm the only one that feels that way. I never post more than a few times under any other articles. I show restraint with my language and all that other good stuff under the other articles as well.

I am of drinking age. I will be 23 in a couple of months.

I also never said I didn't think the draft wasn't around the corner. I don't remember talking about the draft here anyway. I'm not sure if you were implying that or not.

Economic Left/Right: -2.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.69

Closest to the Dahli Lama.

also interesting that I didn't think this was off topic for the same reason that sfoliver gave and leflaw said it was. apparently I'm from another dimension. I wouldn't complain so much if the off topic articles didn't get so many people all excited. I didn't exactly raise hell about the walking monkey. I'll stop now.

Well sherm - I think your that 'voice of reason' thats needed around here sometimes. I don't necessarily always agree with you but you seem to have a decent grassroots understanding of the problem with the task at hand.

That being said, I can see why you would feel this is on-topic. At the same time - all corportate topics are basically 'in the ball park'.

Media biases are sort of left field, but as was referred to the 'interconnectedness of all things' - the many corporate driven media outlets are going to tend to side with their compatriots.

The RIAA represents media conglomerates. Those conglomerates in turn control the vast majority of the media delivered to us - from our favorite tunes to the news to the radio stations we hear commentary from.

Thats one reason that nearly every article that CNN ever runs referring to Time-Warner or AOL - they announce in the article - "CNN is a subsidiary of Time-Warner" which is actually kinda strangely nice of them to inform the public "yeah - were talking about our own company".

Yet - when has CNN talked about protests, or ran the spot on "there is strong public outcry to the practices the RIAA is engaged in" etc etc. There IS an outcry. You don't see the media conglomerates running spots depicting corporations in a negative way until there is an iron clad lawsuit against the company (enron for example).

Please don't let this last bit derail the topic - but the concern over the FNC is that its 'strongly right leaning' which means its even More Likely to support the stance of the corporate desire outweights the public need. So I can see where that at least has relevance.

However - both parties have a bias towards business and pointing out FNC's bias over CNN's is basically cherry picking.

PLEASE do not let this revert us to the other topic. I just felt the need to agree with where sherm is coming from at the same time as pointing out nearly any corporate topic is relevant since thats the nature of the beast that represents beasts that were engaged with.

I like this thread. I took the test yesterday and found I am definatly southwest. -4.1 by -4.6 suprised me considering my conservitive leanings sometimes. my question would be here........... where does Carey Sherman, Mitch Bainwol and the rest of the group fall??

Hey Carla write up all your answers and send them to me.

Drokaten has done a good job of connecting some dots. Many of these debates have a global connection, that if you start breaking them down, one is actually arguing for the very entity that they are against. (However, you left out one thing. We still have no idea what number 10 is.)

I think we need a good political pundit to put this in proper prospective. There has to be something humorous in selling a political candidate the same way you sell corn flakes.

-1.62 by -1.18

hmmm, it didn't surprise me that I was in the same corner as Ralph Nader, but according to this I share the same views as michael (sack of fat) moore. go figure

tom, I'll see what I can cut and paste later.

10. If they are so famous, how come I never hear of them?

drokaten,

thanks. most people should notice that the attitude I have in those threads isn't the one I have in the other ones (probably the same for others too). Compromise is always acceptable. As long as we don't go back to 2, 3, or 10 political articles up all at once I'll give it a rest.

comp,

That's a lot more left than I thought you would have been. Someone asked about Cary Sherman. I think his dot goes right on top of the 'facism.'

leflaw: I hate to say this but this political compass is definitely fun to take.

Economic Left/Right: 0.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.92

I never would have imagined the little dot would be exactly on the line between Left and Right. I would have thought I was more right than left. And it looks like I'm not a complete authoritarian but more libertarian than Schroder?

all right Carla, I'll do the same.

You don't have to agree with MM's methodology to have the same basic beliefs. He's anti-big business hot pokering the public in the doo doo hole with a branding iron.

His main criticism is he uses the same methods that his opponents use, against them. The primary difference is he's on the side of the 250,000,000 + americans that are getting screwed by the system (lets say the remainder of the population are the ruling elite). The age old addage of fight fire with fire comes to mind.

That being said, I think he would be a hell of a voice in the peoples defense against the RIAA (and in fact have started a 'lets enlist michael moore' thread in the action forum).

Really - when it comes to F911 - I guess in 1999 when bush turned to MM and said 'get a real job' he shoulda thought a little more carefully about who he was berating *eg* (the footage of that is included in the movie btw)

/rant *off*

I would be fine if Michael Moore would support our cause. I find him to be completely repulsive, but an enemy of my enemy is my friend (which I strongly agree with at politicalcompass). His politics become irrelevant. He has followers and he reaches people... if he reaches people with our message that's good. If our message doesn't reach people, that's bad.

Well, I'm to the right of Paul Martin....

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 6.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.82

Very interesting site, but I didn't learn anything about myself I didn't already know. Economically I'm an open-market personal responsibility right-winger, and socially I'm very libertarian: live and let live as long as it doesn't infringe on my rights. And dammit, decriminalize cannabis!

Personally, I think it's more fun when you're fightin' and screamin' at each other. I'm a firm believer in the idea of having a good rant every so often is good for your system....keeping everything bottled up inside all the time will melt your brain.
I think I took that test a few months ago, but never remembered my results...I took it again last night and came up with Economic Left/Right: -5.25 and Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.51.
From what I get from the analysis this is where I would suppose most people (not all) brought up in Canada would be found on the compass.

Wow - SuitablyTwisted !

Yet when are you going to find the right leaning towards the decriminaliztion of Cannabis? Your not they have to have their war on nouns. (drugs terrorism poverty etc)

If we here at this board can consider ourselves a decent cross section of people that are for the people - which IMHO is safe to assume, its moments like this where you realize:

No party is representing us.

Hats off to the brits for managing to have so many parties that actually have differing beliefs.

Also - even if you dont 'learn anything about yourself' at political compass - what it is is a 'basis of comparison' When we compare ourselves politically to eachother - we know that were all using the same measuring stick.

In 10 years you can go back to that site - and see if you've changed in your beliefs.

I came to the conclusion when I was 14, on my own, that were 'the soul sum of our experiences' - we DO change our beliefs over time as we experience things. Without a baseline to go back and compare ourselves to, the change is so gradual you wouldn't be able to tell - because you can't observe yourself.

I know last I checked I was more left and South than Mahatma Gandhi...

Dang, I prolly have to take it once more. Weird thing is I still want to start a business although I have such Libertarian and socialistic tendencies...

Economic Left/Right: -4.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67
I'm not sure, but I think that means I'm doomed to be poor and idealistic all my life. At least I'm in good company in my quadrant!!

Economic Left/Right: -1.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.21
hmmmmm looks like i can argue with myself

Libertarian Left here... -4.38; -3.08. I'm relieved.
Fascinating stuff, this... and I still consider myself a babe in the woods, when it comes to understanding these structures, so a hearty thank you is in order, for the link, and I think I've got this weeks' research project all lined up for myself now!
Keep 'em coming...

this is interesting. most of us here at this site is in the southwest catagory but still have widely different opinions about politics.

Economic Left/Right 5.25 Social Lib/Auth 1.08

Why is Saddam Hussein in this corner, way up there, but still in this corner. Did he take the test as well? ....that bites!

@ age 54 eco lft/rt-4.88 soc lib/auth-3.49 I have to wonder if there would have been much difference in my reckless youth ???? 10/4 flbgbt