1. Exuberant nationalism

Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic images, slogans and symbols - National flags are seen everywhere in public display. Territorial aggression is explained to be mere destiny -- an unbidden greatness thrust upon the nation by history.

It is this burden of unique responsibility that now raises the fascist state above all previous constraint, no longer bound by international obligations, treaties or law.

2. Enemies Identified

This national cause is identified as unity against enemies - The people are rallied around a unifying patriotism directed against some common threat: communists, liberals, a racial, ethnic or religious minority, intellectuals, homosexuals, terrorists, etc.

The state's message is sometimes couched in an easily recognized religious theme. Amazingly, this language is used even when the full context of the teaching shows the meaning to be diametrically opposed. Any dissent is "siding with the enemy", and therefor treasonous.

3. Rights Disappear

Disdain for human and political rights - Fascist regimes foster an artificial climate of fear by intentionally amplifying stress and anxiety. Citizens naturally feel a strong need for security and are easily persuaded to ignore abuses in the name of safety. The few still willing to question are met with bullying and smear campaigns of intimidation.

Legislative bodies, if still in existence at all, are cowed into rubber-stamp submission with occasional ceremonial opposition. The judiciary tends to become activist in support of state views. The public often looks away, or even enthusiastically approves as rights are stripped away.

The concept of the individual inevitably yields ground, exchanged for the promised safety of the all-powerful state.

4. Secrecy Demanded

Obsession with secrecy and national security - The workings of government become increasingly hidden. Questioning of authority is discouraged at all levels of society. From office talk at the water cooler up through the entire apparatus of rule, guarded speech and secrecy become ends in themselves.

Troubling questions are muted and entire areas of scrutiny are placed out of bounds by simply invoking "national security".

5. Military Glorified

Supremacy of the military - The military establishment receives a disproportionate share of government resources, even as pressing domestic needs are neglected. Individual soldiers and military culture are glamorized and made constantly visible.

This provides both an object for public glorification, as well as sharp warning to possibly restless citizens that the power of the state stands close at hand, ready to use its great potential for violence.

6. Corporations Shielded

Corporate power is protected - Typically, a segment of the business elite plays a major role in bringing fascists to national leadership, often from an unsavory obscurity. This marriage of big money and raw violence is often considered by historians to be the hallmark and backbone of fascism.

As these business-government-military interests meld, the significant threat of organized labor is clearly recognized. Labor unions and their support organizations are either co-opted successfully or ruthlessly suppressed and eliminated as soon as possible

7. Corruption Unchecked

Rampant cronyism and corruption - Fascist states maintain power through this relatively small group of associates, mutually appointing each other to interlocking and rotating positions in government, business and the military.

With this degree of control, they make full use of both official secrecy and the ready threat of state violence to insulate themselves from any meaningful criticism. They are not accountable and are shielded from scrutiny in a way unthinkable in a democratic society.

8. Media Controlled

Controlled mass media - Sometimes the media are controlled directly by clumsy government functionaries. At other times, sympathetic corporate media insiders shape the themes indirectly, and therefor more skillfully. Image regularly trumps content as the "news" is presented breathlessly and with flashy stage effects.

A practiced formula of tenacious repetition brings even the most absurd lie into acceptance over time. By design, the very language itself and the coloration employed will push alternate views "out of the mainstream".

The terms of any remaining debate are narrowly defined to the state's advantage, making it easy to marginalize a truly differing perspective. Censorship and "self-censorship", especially in wartime, is common.

9. Rampant Sexism

Rampant sexism - Governments of fascist states tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Traditional gender roles are made even more rigid and exaggerated. Condemnation of abortion and a virulent homophobia are commonly built into broad policy.

10. Intellectual Bullying

Disdain for intellectuals - Fascist society tends to create an environment of extreme hostility to critical thought in general, and to academics in particular.

Ideologically driven "science" is elevated and lavishly funded, while any expression not in line with the state view is at first ignored, then challenged, then ridiculed and finally stamped out.

It is not uncommon for academics to be pressured to attack the work of their insufficiently patriotic peers. Writings are censored; teachers are fired and arrested. Free artistic expression in new works is openly attacked, and existing works deemed unpatriotic are often publicly destroyed.

11. Militarized Police

Obsession with crime and punishment - Fascist society is often willing to overlook police abuses and forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. Long jail sentences for clearly political offenses, torture and then assassination are at first uncomfortably tolerated, and then start to pile up to become the norm.

Often a national police force is given virtually unlimited power to snoop through the civilian population. Networks of surveillance and informers are employed, both for actual intelligence gathering and also as a means to keep neighbors and co-workers isolated and mistrustful of each other.

12. Elections Stolen

Fraudulent elections - In the disordered time as fascists are rising to power, the electoral arena becomes increasingly confusing, corrupted, and manipulated.

There is rising public cynicism and distrust over what are widely believed to be phony elections manipulated by moneyed influence, obvious media bias, smear campaigns, ballot tampering, judicial interference, intimidation, or outright assassination of potential opposition. Fascists in power have been known to use this disorder as the rationale to delay elections indefinitely.


10. Intellectual Bullying

Disdain for intellectuals - Fascist society tends to create an environment of extreme hostility to critical thought in general, and to academics in particular.

Ideologically driven "science" is elevated and lavishly funded, while any expression not in line with the state view is at first ignored, then challenged, then ridiculed and finally stamped out.

It is not uncommon for academics to be pressured to attack the work of their insufficiently patriotic peers. Writings are censored; teachers are fired and arrested. Free artistic expression in new works is openly attacked, and existing works deemed unpatriotic are often publicly destroyed.

11. Militarized Police

Obsession with crime and punishment - Fascist society is often willing to overlook police abuses and forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. Long jail sentences for clearly political offenses, torture and then assassination are at first uncomfortably tolerated, and then start to pile up to become the norm.

Often a national police force is given virtually unlimited power to snoop through the civilian population. Networks of surveillance and informers are employed, both for actual intelligence gathering and also as a means to keep neighbors and co-workers isolated and mistrustful of each other.

12. Elections Stolen

Fraudulent elections - In the disordered time as fascists are rising to power, the electoral arena becomes increasingly confusing, corrupted, and manipulated.

There is rising public cynicism and distrust over what are widely believed to be phony elections manipulated by moneyed influence, obvious media bias, smear campaigns, ballot tampering, judicial interference, intimidation, or outright assassination of potential opposition. Fascists in power have been known to use this disorder as the rationale to delay elections indefinitely.

I think we've hit the nail on the head..

BUT WHAT ABOUT MY POST ABOUT CONGRESS EXTENDING VOTES FOR HOURS TO ALLOW HOUSE LEADERS TO BULLY AND ARMTWIST BILLS THROUGH CONGRESS?

12 excellent reasons to depose the likes of Cheney, Bush, Ashcroft, Hatch et al. who view the US Constitution as an impediment to their sick agenda and 1984 as a blueprint rather than a warning. The founding fathers intentionally built in checks and balances between the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government. Those checks and balances are dissolving, eg 'Patriot' act, before our eyes at the behest of elite corporate interests.

Corporations derive their power from OUR money. Check opensecrets.org and see which industries are bribing 'our' representatives to pass laws like DMCA, INDUCE, COPA etc. which only serve to diminish our rights and expand their power.

Boycott them all. Every last fucking one.
And vote the bastards out of office.

Otherwise, my friends , class warfare is just around the corner.

Sadly... the way things are going, I don´t think the american ppl have the balls or the momentum to vote out such a fascist government. All these things are gonna eventually fire up WW3 and US may fall down from its place as superpower... just as ancient Rome did.
For those ppl, who think i´m nuts... talk to ya again in 10 years and let´s see if I was SO mistaken....

History always repeats itself...

It´s a lot like knowing one of your loved ones has a cancer and you wish that you could save her but yet you realize that the process has already started and there is a 90% chance that she will die. Thats the way I feel about america today... and it almost makes me cry...

read 1984..
That book should be taught in US schools... (Orwell's books are part of UK English courses often)

The bit which talks about public execution, arrest without reason, hunts for "terrorists" and all of it being welcomed for security....

Does no one see where the world is heading?

You must be a cheerful bunch to sit around and have a coffee with.

...and how do you propose we stop the fascist movement? By voting, perhaps? Ha. The average American doesn't even know what fascism is.

I lived in Quebec for 3 years from 1989-92 during the most recent separatist fad. Most of the twelve examples were rampant in that province. English only signs are forbidden..and if another language must be shown (for safety reasons) it must be much smaller print in a submissive position on the sign. This is the province which outlawed yellow cheese and butter to protect it's local dairy industry. I don't suppose most people in the US realize how close Quebec came to separating from Canada, nearly creating a facist state. Another example of a xenophobic minority in majority representation pushing their agenda.

"The bit which talks about public execution, arrest without reason, hunts for "terrorists" and all of it being welcomed for security....

Does no one see where the world is heading?"

Some of us absolutely do.
We are labelled paranoid, Ignorant, stupid, etc.. and summarily dismissed as raging idiots, and are told to vote for Kerry and all will be well. Sometimes that happens to us here, on this site, as well.
That is the strangest part of this.
Anyone with patience can go back through the archives here, and follow the path of legislation proposed ( posted here ) correlate that with news articles and political trends , and see that Paranoid is not the issue. The RIAA, MPAA P2P screaming is deeply related to this as a smokescreen for REMOVING RIGHTS, and CONTROLLING THE FLOW OF INFORMATION on the net. By controlling that flow, we would never find out about legislation we should oppose, what rights they are taking away, etc.

Go throught the archives here.
Check the bills that have been through.
Then tell me ...
Will there be an election this year ??
really

See, dredd, you miss the point. The fascists are Bush, Cheney, et al. That's why we (I) tell you to vote for Kerry.

No Carla,
You missed the point.
Kerry is just a puppet of the same group that controls bush.
Neither of them belong in charge.

I suppose I should clarify a bit tho, I am NOT trying to be insulting to carla for her choice of Kerry. That's her right and privledge.
My number 1 problem with Kerry .....
RIAA, MPAA, BSA etc ... are using copyright laws etc to totally control the flow of information throught the net. The ramifications of this are LARGE and far beyond simply music and movies. This has been noted time and time again here, so no need for me to get .. windy .. about it.
We have already seen that the Bush administration is happily allowing laws to "slide" through. Control of information suits the government as well.
This is a hot and VERY RELEVANT issue.
The only statement ever made by kerry "appears" to support what the "infotainment" industries are doing to the public. The statement was brief, nocomittal and VERY subject to interpretation. This has been typical of his stances on MANY things. He seems to fear to bite the hand that feeds him ( not us, the industry, see opensecrets ). His support of WIPO plays right into the current industry view of total control.
You see,
The copyright ( and deeper issues ) are what brought us here. Kerry's lack of a solid stance has been brought up many times here, and yet, no indication of what he is going to do regarding the attacking of consumers has ever been produced. Whenever someone asks "what does Kerry think about .. " , instead of addressing the issue, the response is usually something like " well Bush is evil, blah blah, Bush did this blah blah " with no further information produced about Kerry's particular stance.
Me=Tired of it.
I know Bush sucks balls. Most of us do.
I don't want Bush to remain in office either carla.
But Kerry has given nothing SOLID in regards to what I care about the most.
There has mostly been, "Bush is so Evil, you MUST vote for Kerry".
These tactics REALLY push my "paranoid" button.
That is why I will vote for neither Bush nor Kerry.
Kerry inactions and lack of stance is just as damning as Bush outright stupidity.
Once again this is a non issue anyway.
There won't be an election this year.

Sad to say, "dredd" is right. (I hope you don't need me or others to trot out the info to back it up, but we can if necessary.)

I Also agree with "Dredd". If Kerry wins...in a few years, it will be the same story...only instead of Bush, it will be Kerry on the crap end.

To clarify: I was writing my previous post at the same time "dredd" was adding more information with an additional post of his own.
I was referring to the potential for backing up the info to support "dredd's" contention which was: "Kerry is just a puppet of the same group that controls bush. Neither of them belong in charge."
That contention is true enough.

About whether the scheduled election will happen or not, that's still not certain either way.

If you read the above 12 warning signs, you will see that these have been implemented by the Bush administration -- since he's taken office. Not by the Democratics. Electing Kerry is a step in reversing this trend. Four more years of Bush only intensifies the march towards fascism.

But hey, you kids do what you want, as my father says.

"Dredd" is also correct about the election being a non-issue in the sense that -- as the article of this forum points out -- our nation is well on the way to losing its constituted republic form of government. It can happen gradually (as it has been), or it can happen by martial law following another disastrous terrorist attack. The executive orders having laid the groundwork for what will be, in practice, fascism . . . those preparatory orders can be activated following a dire crisis which is probably coming.

And I might add that this can happen no matter which Skull-and-Bones president we may have at the time.

Carla, hoping for a delay or reversal of the march to fascism by having Kerry at the helm is better than voting for another four years of Dubya. But I can't help but wonder if it would be preferable to strive for an impetus of getting out the vote for a third candidate just to show the powers behind our political establishment that many Americans are sick and tired of the lame choices that are the only ones getting the support to make the primaries in the first place.
Government by, of, and for the people is history. Gone.
The big question is: what can just a few people who care do about it?

That seems to be a good thing to build for in the 2008 election -- a third party populist candidate. Since so many people are so energized now, it might happen. I still think Kerry's a start. And if he sees what the people want, he may move toward those positions.
Bush will only try to keep his cronies rich.

There is another reason to vote for Kerry/Edwards if you accept the dredd's arguments. They maybe cut from the same cloth but you're forgetting the partisanship factor. Right now, you have republican majorities pushing their agenda like a hot knife thru butter. Throw in a democratic element causes stalemate. A democratic president will tend to want to counter or veto any republican created legislation. I know there can be holes in that argument, but the main point is the process for putting legislation thru becomes a little more difficult. This is what we need...a slowing down of this right wing trend towards making it illegal to even turning on our computers.

sorry, I think it's a little bit overboard for me to call it a right wing trend....let's leave it at the trend to make it illegal to even turning on our computers.

The argument I'm making is applicable..and has been...with democrats controlling everything as well. We need balance. That means countering a republican controlled house and senate with a democratic president or a vice versa.

Pinemikey, That may well be true, but only if the Democratic candidate actually opposes the policies the rpublicans are trying to push through.
The labellings of Democrat and Republican cause folks to automatically ( sometimes vehemently ) assume that the labled candidates will act differently.
Time and time again those contentions have proven false. The labels only provide and illusion of difference. Kerry's lack of committment causes me to believe that he will continue to advance the 12 rules in the article, NOT strive to reverse or slow them. But as long as he is "officially" a Democrat, people who are easily manipulated by labels and not facts ( not just the "facts" pushed to us by the "main" media ) will believe they are getting something different.
I wonder what could happen ( a pipe dream, I know ) if these Boycott sites could agree to solidly push for a single 3rd party cadidate. P2P freindly .
6 million file sharers , all supporting 1 candidate. Redefine "Viable". Forever.

Heh, lots of crossposting here.
Love the activity.
I am leaving out any insults, even the subtle ones.
Can you Carla ?
one kid to another.

I feel that people here are forgetting the effect moderate forces in both parties have in politics. The reason I say this is I think the moderate forces in the democratic party hold more sway than their counterparts in the republican parties. Right now, there seems to be no way to counter the more right wing elements in the republican parties. I feel the moderate forces in the democratic party would exert pressure on John Kerry away from a radical agenda along the lines of the trend we're discussing here. Again, I feel that voting for a democratic president, considering that democratic majorities in both the house and senate are not likely in the near future is the best method of arresting the trend or least of slowing it up until more balance can be voted into the senate and congress.

I am not forgetting Pinemikey.
But if the moderate forces had a significant effect, how do things like Pirate act "slip through the cracks". If moderate forces have any power at all, they must not be paying a whole lot of attention.
Plus , tactics like the ones oulined in Awehrs article show that moderate forces can simply be bullied into compliance.
Contempt for the public and due process is being shown much more openly, with impunity. This would seem to indicate the powers that be have less to fear than ever before in our history.

I agree with Carla, I can't think of anyone as bad as the Bush administration. I wish it was a perfect world and that the alternatives were better... But let's face it Bush is so head and shoulders above anybody else when it comes the 12 points mentioned here that the priority is to oust him (and his buddies)... that anyone is less of a danger to the US and the world.

"That seems to be a good thing to build for in the 2008 election -- a third party populist candidate."

I just wanted to make a point about populism. Since nazism this has been a tainted political word. Carla you shouldn't use it. Hitler was a populist, he was riding with the dark side of the people, making easy and popular promises. An example ? Jean-Marie Lepen, extreme right in France always blames unemployment on immigration. This has been proven wrong by economists, however, a lot of unemployed (and often unedudated) people want to hear this. It's an easy scapegoat, it justifies the tendency of small-town folks to reject diversity (strangers). Lepen helps them indulge on easy and wrong answers, gaining popularity by riding along with them. It is a popular stand, but terrible leadership, similar to the one Hitler displayed before the war.

Ladies and gentlemen, I draw your attention to the only two tickets genuinely free of the control of 'special interests' in this election:

Michael Badnarik, the presidential candidate for the Libertarian Party, is the only true Conservative left in this race - his platform is at http://www.badnarik.org/, and I guaran-damn-tee you that he's the only candidate in the race who would roll back the regime of corporate copyright;

Michael A. Peroutka/Chuck Baldwin, the presidential and vice-presidential candidates for the Constitution Party, are the only true Christians left in this race - have a look at their platform on http://www.peroutka2004.com/ - they call themselves conservatives, but true conservatives shouldn't be involving themselves in what kind of sex people are having, or trying to impose a particular set of religious beliefs on the people. Still, they are

(I note that Ralph Nader has grown his own set of special interests, while Green Party candidate David Cobb is basically stumping for Kerry at this point, with his "build-the-party but get Bush out strategy).

I personally would like to see Badnarik win, which he could, if people were not so predisposed towards believing that third-party candidates can not win. Someone should have told Mr. Lincoln that.

To blame the trend towards facism on a mere four years of Bush is insane. This trend cannot happen overnight, or in four years. It has been building, over the last 50 years, and it takes the corruption of both parties and the ridiculous alternatives we have to the two party foremat.

We are wasting valuable resources by berating each other's preferences, but I agree, bashing each other is a nice kid's way to spend the day

With all our brilliant minds and educations just wasting away on drivel, we should be fighting for radical changes instead. We are the true patriots who will be recognized in 100 years for standing up and doing something, or posting insults and rhetoric to each other while our freedoms went down the drain.

"But if the moderate forces had a significant effect, how do things like Pirate act "slip through the cracks"."

Like I postulated...the present republican congress, senate and the white house are over riding the moderating efforts of their own party. At some point this imbalance is going to cause a breaking point.

Hence the terms like "Reagan democrats', which came to the fore when people were starting to get fed up with a democratic controlled house and senate pushing more and more of a left wing agenda.

Maybe, we'll see some "Kerry republicans" (This would have had a better chance with McCain as VP) turning the tide in November.

We hear about it from commentators about the beginnings of fractures and schisms in the republican controlled house and senate on certain issues. This pressure is being brought by the republican moderates feeling that the direction we're heading is a little too right of center.

Also, this discussion is ignoring the realities of Congress - the reason the deficit (which, by the way, is the greatest threat to our stability) shrank during the Clinton administration was because we had divided government. If the Republicans are likely to retain control of the House and Senate, then we should put Kerry in . . . but if Bush is re-elected, it will probably lead to the Democrats regaining control of both houses of Congress anyway.

"To blame the trend towards facism on a mere four years of Bush is insane. This trend cannot happen overnight, or in four years."

No, you can blame it with on the neo-con in general and I think it started with Reagan. However, don't forget 9/11, it was the event that made a very quick change possible. I would actually agree with you about time if it wasn't for 9/11.

Since 9/11, the Republicans/neocons/whatever the forces of evil are called, have dusted off their nefarious plans (war in Iraq, the Patriot Act) and pushed them through, scaring people into accepting them. Sure, people like Kerry were misled and voted for it. But seeing how these have been implemented, the forces of reason have stepped back and said, whoa, we have to stop this, we've gone too far.

You should watch C-span every day and see these Republicans (Hatch, Sessions) get up and spew their idiot rhetoric about how we have to keep the Patriot Act, and how traditional marriage is the only way and these awful judges in Massachusetts are making laws (trying to defend human rights).

Did you watch the 9/11 hearings? This administration is out of control.

pinemikey and whoever else said it, I agree, there needs to be a political balance to slow things down.

Hmm,
A Badnarik Endorsement throughout the P2P community ??
I wonder what that could do ?

Here's an idea. Why not get a grass roots campaign to get candadate's (I use the plural because it'll take way more than one man at the helm) who'll ACTUALLY start reversing these trends instead of blindly accepting the choices that both parties and their corporate sponsors shove down our throats. Who're the real sheep here.

it'll take awhile and certinly take more than one or two elections but will have a longer lasting effect than continuing to vote the lesser (if there really is one) of two evils.

Here are some comparrisons with the recording industry....

The RIAA shoves bad music down our throats for a profit... the political/corporate machine shoves their homoginized candadates down our throats.

The RIAA controls virtually all distribution of music.. the political/corporate machine does the same with the candadates.

The RIAA contols the mainstream media to pound into the heads of the general public that theirs is the only legitimate music avaliable... the political/corporate machine uses the same media to convice the general public that only the two candadates they've chosen (not the public) are legitimate.

The RIAA uses litigation, civil and criminal, to maintain this control.... the political/corporate machine does the same.

we can go on and on and on with these comparrisons.

Good Idea Comp. Combine that with what they ae REALLY afraid of.

Using the internet as a CASH FREE CAMPAIGN.
Since the mainstream media won't allow balance, and candidates that really would reverse the trends won't be able to afford glitzy campaigns, the Internet is the ONLY WAY for some candidates to spread their ideas.

BTW,
I noticed that no one has posted anything that Kerry has said he would do relating to the primary focus here, choosing to instead point to Bush as Evil ( he is ), and otherwise direct the thread away from what Kerry says he will do.
What does Kerry Say he will do.
Tell me that .
Don't tell me what you BELIEVE he is going to do.
Tell me exactly what he SAYS he is going to do.

Kerry won't appoint radical conservative judges to the courts, and that's enough for me.

Ahh, I see.
There's those labels again.
Radical, Conservative.
Liberal, Communist, Fascist etc ...

The labels provide no real information.
What makes them both radical, AND conservative.

Has Kerry actual SAID he won't appoint Radical, Conservative Judges, Or do you just believe that ??

My point is that just labelling someone something doesn't mean anything. What is actually done means more than any quick convenient word that can be applied to them. Things are far more complicated than simplistic labels.
People on the whole need to start being smarter than that.

I do agree with Carla on this one issue. she honestly believes in her candadate and that's what american democracy is about. others honestly believe in Bush and that's great too. Their are those who belive in Nader or the other candidates. All these people are doing exactly what our forefathers envisioned.

it's when you vote for someone because you don't like the other guy or because there are no "VIABLE" choices or because someone cheated on their wife 20 years earlier etc..... that we sucum to the same mindless minipulation that the Recording and entertainment industry uses. I've done it too, many times. I voted for Dukakis only because I was afraid George Senior was a Regan clone. I voted for Clinton only because I felt Bush Sr was out of touch and I voted for Regan Because Mondale came across like he didn't know what he was talking about. The only time I voted what I believed in was in 1980 when I voted for John Anderson. I was young then and now I'm older I want to get back to those ideals I believed in back then.

Kerry said he won't appoint judges to the Supreme Court that don't support Roe v. Wade. I believe that. There are several justices that want to retire, but fear Bush appointments to the court.

Americans tend to think too highly of the voting process. It is what makes us great.. the ability to have the people decide. But please..wars have to be fought to stop oppression and turn things in the right direction. Vote Kerry or Bush all you want. It won't fix anything. Cocky fucking Americans think they're immune to anything that infringes on their freedoms because "We have the power of the vote!!" An elected government can do the same thing a dictator can.

telling your government to shove it when they step over the line is the way you maintain order. not by voting.

Carla that's true. Sandra O'Conner is one of those I believe and she was appointed by Regan

comp, if I change my mind and vote against Bush that will probably be the reason. Clarifying on my post above - I'm not overreacting... I'm not saying we need a war or anything like that. I'm just saying historically that's just how it goes..voting is extremely important and everyone needs to do it, but it's still overrated.

Sherm I'm not making any judgements on people. I'm sorry if it seems that way as I fall into many of those traps myself. it's human nature. I talk about the process. my views are not any better than anyone elses. as long as people vote their concious and beliefs that's all that matters.

I respect Carla's decision to vote for Kerry, as well.
I do object to quick labels as a substitute for substance.
They only incite, they do not inform.

"An elected government can do the same thing a dictator can."

Sherm is right on with this statement. When all branches move in one direction and without due consideration of minority opinion....it is very much like a dictatorship.

News media reports have glossed over or ignored stories of political gerrymandering. Now we are seeing where this dangerous practice is very deadly to democracy. When incumbents can't lose and get elected year after year by people who vote for the party instead of the candidate, the people aren't represented anymore. Senators and Congresspeople ignore and some even laugh at the concerns of minority ( I mean people who vote for the other non-incumbent candidates) voters. It's hard to threaten a politican when he knows the same old bunch of voters are aligned in his or her district to allow him to act with impunity. You'll notice this isn't always so in urban districts, where the ever changing population shifts its views too much to be nailed down to one political ideology. That's why political parties heavily skew their districts to rural voters who usually always vote the same way to allow them easier re-election.

A good example of this is the disproportinate funding of money for Homeland Security. These bozos with a small collection of little towns and huge farmlands with hardly any humans on it are grabbing more than they deserve. Meanwhile, large population centers are being told too bad, so sad, I hope nothing happens this week. Mayor Bloomberg of New York should tell these pork barrel bums where to go.

No matter who is President, the country will continue down the slope to Fascism unless we completely wipe Congress of all incumbents. Remember, Congress passes the bills, makes the laws, gets the payoffs, etc. Even if a President vetoes a bill, Congress can override it. Most congresspeople view it as a lifetime job. Term limits will do away with Congress as usual. So when you vote for your Senators and Representatives, vote against the incumbent. Except maybe Boucher, he seems to have some sense in his head.

Hmm, i'd hafta search the archives but ...
There was a bill or an "act" or somesuch thing that may have been pushed through about 4 months ago, that would allow the President to choose replacements for senate and house members if a large number of them were lost to "tragedy". To keep the government going "smoothly" ya know.
Anyone here know the status of that "Act" ??
hmm,
A Terrorist act takes out a large number of congress, Postpones the "election" , Bush replaces the missing posts with his hand picked cronies .....

"Bush replaces the missing posts with his hand picked cronies ....."

his friends from skull and bones of course.

If one of the authors of this site could contact Mr. Badnarik (and, for the heck of it, Mr. Petrouka and Mr. Cobb) and see if they would be willing to express an opinion on the key issues for which this site stands.

OK...I have to state the obvious. I don't come here for the polical oppinions and I'm confident that nobody else really does either.

Having said that, I am now going to toss out one of my rare political opinions.

I detest what GW is doing to our individuality. I can only think of a couple of things in the history of scary legislation (in my lifetime) that are worse than the (anti-)PATRIOT Act.

One of those, interestingly enough was Slick Willy's Omnibus bill. Does anyone here remember that one? The two things I remember most about it are:

1.) It was the single largest tax structure imposed on the American people.

2.) A senator by the name of John Kerry was the deciding vote. The most interesting thing about this is that literally up to the very last minute he openly voiced his opposition to this bill. He didn't even initially show up for the vote. Someone went and got him to come and break the tie. In the end, dispite his promise to stand against this bill, he voted for it. For this reason, I could never give him my vote. Anybody who would so blatantly betray the people's trust cannot be entrusted with the office of president. Especially when the only expaination for the change of heart was that he was voting party lines.

Couple this with the fact the the majority of the Media PAC dollars is pouring into the Democratic coffers, I fear he will "go with party" even it it means breaking promises to the people.

I'm not letting GW off the hook here. I'm hoping beyond hope that he will follow in his daddy's footprints and be a one termer.

I just cannot waste my vote on either of these airheads. I am going to take a serious look at the libertarians. I would suggest that everyone else look around as well. If those of us that do vote, put half as much effort in picking a president as we do a car, we wouldn't be having these types of discussions. And if you think it doesn't matter, think about this.

Less than thirty percent of the people who can vote actually do. Two of the last three election were won with less than fifty percent of the popular vote. Approx. ten percent of the votes fal to the category of "other". If we remove just ten percent of the party votes from each of these two candidates, we can effectively keep them both out of office and give some fresh point of view a shot at it.

This approach would not only send a lasting message to the incumbants who actually think that this is only a two party system, but it would also allow for creative juices to flow.

Remember why we came here in the first place....We all have one thing in common, we don't like the handful controlling all creative works. We all agree that this leads to the end of creativity. I personally believe that this view applies to much more than music and Disney (stolen) movies. It applies to all aspects of our lives. If our elected officials (a.k.a. employees) insist on stagnating our culture, then we should simply fire them and hire someone else....And if we do serve these guys with their walking papers, don't hire there friends and family to fill the job. Look for talent somewhere else.

In light of my earlier comment that we are better served by a divided government, Fox News reports that Republicans are likely to retain firm control over the House, while the Senate is a toss-up at this point.

why need an election. just let news report polls decide for us

just let skull and bones decide for us.

I like what TotallyFrustrated said.

Maybe someone throw together a flier that shows the kind of power we can have if we voted for a 3rd party. People put crap on my car window, I can just as easily put it back on theirs. Of course, a few (several) million would have to be convinced. If we made our target people who are too damn lazy to vote, they alone could make a difference. Someone is probably doing this already. Maybe I ought to join them. Anybody want to pull a "monk" and set themselves on fire in the street with a Ralph Nader sign? (a joke of course.. )

typing a bracket makes my post disappear. That was supposed to be Bush and Kerry's face after losing to Nader =) 4 posts in a row!

An elected government is (can be) Worse than a dictator becuase they have the approval of the people. It may be the right time for another party to get inside.

Don't you think this was all tried during the democratic primary? With candidates like Dean and Kucinich using the internet and promoting anti-war, anti-corporate issues. A third party would need time to take hold. It's not going to fly in the next 4 months.

You have got to decide whether you can live with Bush being reelected.

I think I understand the line of thinking here. Dems == Good; Reps == Fascism, Bad. The U.S. is nothing like a Fascist state. I suggest anyone who thinks so, talk to one of the Holocaust survivors. This column should have been titled "12 Monkeys, the Self Fullfilling Profecy."

Please excuse the spelling mistakes, it's late.

Whenever I mention stuff like this article to my family & co-workers, they say, "you can't believe everything you read on the internet." I say you can't believe newspapers and news shows either. I know someone who actually thinks that Bush is pro 1st and 4th amendment. Also, I get crazy looks when I say I'm voting 3rd party.

When you get "crazy looks" for saying you are voting a 3rd party you merely are getting the message the 2 dominant parties work hard to daunt you by. Sadly, both parties may as well be the same party anymore. I honestly believe either party would gladly let the other win to keep out a 3rd party candidate.

Shmoo

sadly shmoo I think you're right

battousai,

same here. "Oh you just got that from the internet!" But it's never people my age who say it, it's old people. Coincidence? No. They don't get it, and they refuse to learn. TV media is worthless. Real news and "balance" can be found on the internet from any of the thousands of sources. I got in an argument with my mom that her defense of Ashcroft came soley from FoxNews. She asked when I became a liberal. I told her I'm not. Then the discussion started over again at the beginning. ..blah blah

Tsk, tsk, Sherm, ya can't blame all the old people. A lot of us here are over 40

broad sweeping generalizations are my friend. =) I took a tech class taught by the smartest 70 year old woman I've ever seen.

be careful of the broad sweeping generalizations sherm. those of Carla's and my age can generalize about youth too.

what? What's wrong with MY generation?

damn kids and their picture phones! *shakes fist* =)

All these dang whippersnappers...

Sorry, could not resist the pun. Gotta admit this thread has settled down to a good healthy talk and not stupid so and so. Keep up the good work.

I'd say more but my false teeth fell out

Another popular response I get when I express my dislike with the Patriot Act taking away our privacy is "if you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."

yep question is we don't know what is right or wrong. it's arbratrary (spelling I know) all they need is a suspicision. how many so far have been detained for months without doing anything wrong.

I wonder if John Ashcroft would object to cameras on his bedposts that film him while he sleeps for security purposes. I mean after all, he IS a terrorist.. not a suspected one. But if he's not doing anything wrong, why should he care? I bet he would anyway. And that would make him a hypocrite. I'm right. John Ashcroft is wrong. I can't wait to read the next thing that comes out of terrorist Ashcroft's mouth.

So what does this have to do with boycotting the RIAA and taking a stand against the recording industry???

Linking the RIAA to facists is a bit of a stretch don't you think??? Granted their tactics are extreme but it was the US government that gave them a stick to beat us with. There are some fundimental changes that are happening in the music biz that will take time to mature.

But the first thing that needs to be done is to educate musicians that "making it" should not involve the members of the riaa.

surfside,

You should have been here the last few months. Right now there are really only two political stories on here. For a long while RIAA news was in the very small minority. It's better than it has been. I hated it. One isn't so bad if it's posted occasionally.

Does anyone else notice that wile the article posts "these 12 evil things" they don't give reference in past historical events as to when this similarly happened in say Italy in the 30's or Germany in about hte same time. It's easy to push the paranoid button on the weak minded or thoes that want to believe it, but this is nothing more then a "they're all out to get us" rant. You show some direct parallels and maybe you're get some respect. for the article.

Actually , Adeptus,
Most of us here are well aware of the past historical parrallels of the "12 monkeys".
The article asks us to think about the 12 monkeys and current events. To think for ourselves, as it were.
Not too many weak minds here actually.The weak minded don't usually bother to look further than Fox News.
Even the opinions that are vehemently disagreed with are usually voiced with a great deal of thought behind them.
Btw, thank you.
The more people that call me paranoid, the more certain I become that I am correct.

Adeptus:

Something else you should know. Leflaw set up the ground rules of posting a while back (Hint: A more permanent link to these easy to follow rules) and people are welcome to post articles with built in rants. Considering this site can be likened to a discussion over coffee in a cafe or maybe a few beers on the back deck, the posted comments are just starting points for a discussion. Whenever someone posts actual news, there's usually always a link.

With regards to direct parallels to historical events, I don't see any need. Most contributers to this thread are aware of european history of the 30's and the parallels are obvious. However, we're talking about current events and while making comparisons to historical events may be useful, they are slightly irrelevant to what everyone can plainly see that has happened in the last 5 or 6 years in this country. You shouldn't confuse paranoia with vigilance.

What a thought,
Myself, Mroop and Carla sitting down for a few beers.
S'ok, I have life insurance.

>The U.S. is nothing like a Fascist state. I suggest anyone who thinks so, talk to one of the Holocaust survivors.

See: http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/010904A.shtml

From the article that Aaron referenced ..
"Why didn't you do anything about the people in the camps?

Everyone was terrified. People 'disappeared' into those camps. Sometimes the Nazis came and lined everyone up, walking behind them - even school children - with a cocked pistol. You never knew when they would just shoot someone in the back of the head. Everyone was terrified. Everyone was disarmed - guns were registered, so all the Nazis had to do was go from house to house and demand the guns. "

I really CAN happen here, and soon