Our European friends got some interesting music news this month in the form of OD2's SonicSelector, a plug-in to Windows Media Player that lets users stream any track they want from a library of about 350,000 tunes. Doesn't sound too impressive, right? Especially when Apple ITunes launched in Europe the day after. Well, here's the interesting part: Each song you play costs you just a penny.

Story here
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,116798,00.asp
Eric Dahl, PC World
Friday, July 09, 2004

Think of it like a online pay to play jukebox. Not bad really. I just don't like streaming anything.

I can't see the record companies liking this much though. Not much profit in it. In the UK you only have to sell 100,000 singles and you are a pop star. 100,000 times 1p = diddly squat. Would hardly pay the studio costs let alone promotion etc.

"Millions for defense, not a penny for tribute."

Let's not fraternize with the enemy. Not even a penny's worth.

If this had been proposed 5 years ago, it might have sounded reasonable. That's before the RIAA declared war.

they want you to pay per use.. this is what they were aiming for.
this is the ultimate form of copyright abuse.

This is what was prophesized by sane people long ago.. and now theyve managed to push and push until they get what they want from poor schmos..

0$ and a tiny risk of suit/encarceration for p2p downloading... and you get infinite plays

$1 for Itunes, and you get infinite plays.. but only pay 100 cents

1 cent for 1 play.. only 100 plays is a dollar.. by the time youve been using their stuipd service long enough you could have bought from itunes 3 times over.

theyre trying to gouge consumers even further, and their boldness is beginning to make me wander why there arent riots in the streets.

awehr: then we should be tearing down jukeboxes too, I mean you pay $0.50 for a play! it's 50x worse than this!

by the way... there are services which offer a ton more than 300,000 songs and will "stream" non drm'ed media for free...
its called "web radio"
and there are hundreds of stations.

This is a good idea, but if I'm going to pay for a song, I want to actually have a copy reside on my hard drive. Streaming doesn't work since the songs will be extremely lo-fi, unless they require broadband access to use this service.

And deadman's right. If the song were played 100,000 times at 1p a piece, then 1000 pounds will only have been made. That translates out to $1856.21 here in the US. That's roughly two cents here. That means, for the record companies here to make at least $10,000,000, then they'd have to stream 500,000,000 songs! That's 492,000,000 more than needed selling songs on iTunes for $1.25.

This little bit of math proves why the RIAA needs to go away.

Yeah. Now try to prove that to the RIAA before they spin it. The RIAA may be nutcases, but they sure know how to spin the truth.

allofmp3.com ...1 penny for 1 megabyte that you ALWAYS have.

Much better deal.

Pay to listen. Sure. As someone mentioned this isn't a new idea. Juke boxes have had that idea for a long time, other than the price wasn't a penny.

Many get computers with these speakers of very low quality when they buy a computer. Hardly worth listening to on something like that. Of course, I have learned they have come a long ways in what you can upgrade your computer sound to. If you are willing to pay, your computer can sound as good as most home stereos today, if not better. Still it does not replace a true home stereo dedicated to sound but it does rival it.

When you upgrade most of this mp3 format leaves you hearing the lack of what isn't there in the music.

Imagine if the entire industry swithed to penny-per-play, not a one-time large payment for each item of content. What would happen, ignoring the problem of paying for that?

Firstly, not much new content. It would compete with the previous content! There would be a few demands for longer copyright terms as rock 'n' roll starts entering the public domain in Europe (not the US), as it could still produce a revenue stream. Marketing would try to keep a track popular for as long as possible, rather than try for a quick rush of sales before the next release. No search for new talent.

nyer82,
So how would one know if using this site is legal in this country? There is a statement that basically says you can only use if legislation in your country permits it. How do you know if it does or doesn't?

http://www.downloadmusicmart.com/
This is another independent site.

Nobody is really sure it is legal in Russia. Russian copyright law is very strange.

Then again, bootlegging is illegal in China. That doesn't stop the tourists to Hong Kong from bringing home a suitcase full of cheap DVDs, does it?

Same principle.

According to the site.. theyre obeying russian copyright law.

"According to the site.. theyre obeying russian copyright law."

Well of course they WOULD say that, wouldn't they?

All I'm saying is that I don't live there, and I don't know the law. So it could be true.

It says.... You agree with the fact that you are not able to use and even to download audio and video materials from Allofmp3.com catalogue if it is in the conflict with legislation of your country.

Yes, Russian copyright law is observed, but is it in conflict with our legislation...that is the question my dear Watson...

I wonder if RIAA is tracking downloads from this site? Or perhaps this is why they want the PIRATE act so bad, so the DOJ can go after those that use sites in other countries. Interesting thought.

How would the RIAA track downloads from a private server? (as opposed to those on a public network like K*****)

There was an incident a while ago with a site offering free MP3s from a country with almost no copyright law, and less enforcement. After failing to shut the server down, the RIAA actually demanded the backbone ISPs block the sites IP at every point where traffic enters of leaves the US. Of course they refused, knowing if they blocked one site they would soon be asked to block more. The RIAA was planning legal action when the site suddenly and mysteriously disappeared. The disapearance may have been due to an unexpected success by the RIAA, or just coincidence. Either way, the RIAA droped the demand for cencorship.

Tracking downloads from a private server is easy, when you have the logs. There are three ways to get these:

1. Have the admin hand them over. A subpoena is the usual method, but bribing the admin works too. With legal costs, its probably cheaper.

2. Take them by force. If the server is at a colocation service, legally force them to give it to you. If its hosted privately, raid the building. This it the technique recently used to catch many pedophiles, giving the police good publicity and the internet very bad publicity.

3. Ask the ISP to tap the connection. The server admin doesn't know they are being monitored then. This technique isn't used for simple copyright infringement, but its been used in criminal investigations. Its being used more frequently now because of the terrorist scare.

Well, goldenpi, I don't know what to tell you. I guess you had best stick to copying CDs from the library.

Yes, of the three methods you mentioned, bribery is probably the most productive avenue, if RIAA wanted to get records.

However, as of yet, downloading has not been determined a crime. It's the uploading, the distributing.

If you are looking for an explicit precedent guaranteeing legality, I don't see how you'd find it. But maybe a copyright lawyer could shed some light. This type of thing might have come up in other contexts. If this service is legal in Russia, or even if it isn't legal in Russia, I'm not sure that has any legal bearing. If a Frenchman makes an illegal copy of a French magazine article, have I broken any US laws by buying it from him? Would it make a difference if he sent it by mail or if he sent scans of it over the internet?

Isn't this kind of akin to buying generic drugs from overseas pharmacies? These companies have no right to sell these generic substitutes in the US. Yet, I've purchased from Indian pharmacies. No problem.

if it wernt of sharing technologies (p2p) i wouldnt make music, if it wouldnt be of sharing technologies, i'd sell my music with much more ease....
now i can make, but i cant sell....
irronic....
someone wana buy my music?

Where is mroop when ya need him? Please feel free to indulge mroop.

I agree with the wonderful cynical and disgruntled folks here who see through everything. 1 penny per stream? BS to that! how bout 1 penny per non DRM infected file download? Wanna try THAT model?

If the industry REALLY got off the greed-horse long enough to implement that so called "voluntary compulsary licence" thang... they would kill us anti-riaa folks movement dead in an instant.

THANK GOD THE RIAA/MPAA/BSA choose greed over smarts every time.

(or we would be GONNERS!)

Shmoo, of Electric Gypsy

Don't worry Shmoo...they ain't figured it out yet...and probably never will.