NEW YORK (AP) -- It's hard to find clear answers in the debate between the makers of video games and activists who claim the electronic diversions are destroying an entire generation.

One side claims there is no evidence that games have any damaging psychological effect on the people who play them. The other says the link between game-playing and aggression is as strong as the link between cigarettes and cancer.

complete story here

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/fun.games/07/05/games.theresearch.ap/index.html

I don't know. We played war and cowboys and indians and (tic . .tic) we're not (tic . .tic) too wierd (tic . .tic).

Thousands of years ago the Romans had real people kill each other for sport. Today, imaginary sprites beat each other up. Civilization didn't fall apart with the Roman games, I hardly think it will suffer too much with pretend violence.

I'm not a violent person, because I can beat up imaginary things in my off time. I think without that, I'd have clubbed a couple of a**hats to death before now.

Of course, if you take away my sprites, I'll be more than happy to amuse myself feeding Christians to lions. I know of a few I could start with.

Here's my commentary on this same story issue that I did on my blog at http://codewarriorz.blogspot.com

"Look...how does having a lunatic for a president , sending thousands of men and women to foreign lands and training them to kill an enemy without hesitation affect them. How about the training of troops at Abu Ghraib, or at least, instruction of them to sexually abuse and dehumanize prisoners...how does that affect them as people when they come home and get jobs as cops...how about that.

Not everyone who plays first person shooter games becomes a killer.
There are no foolproof, non-flawed studies that have drawn a direct, causal relationship between video game content and violent actions perpetrated by the players in future situations have been done.

I personally never was a game player, but, I object to this dumping on video games. People kill other people for a lot of reasons, and one BIG reason people go kill other people, is when they claim they have been bullied, picked on, and victimized by those people in school or on the job. Bullying was apparently the reason the Trenchcoat mafia kids that did the murders at Columbine, given by the murderers before the event. The reason multiple murders done at a workplace by a man that had worked there, were also claimed to be the result of him being bullied and picked on.

Bullying, being picked on, and feeling victimized, day after day, generates a violent, seething rage in people that does not simply go away.

So, instead of wasting money stigmatizing video games, how about a study on the link between bullying behavior, abusive behavior by co-workers and fellow students , and violent retaliation by those who feel they were victimized. That would be FAR more useful than this politically based nonsense.

# posted by CodeWarrior : Monday, July 05, 2004 "

I grew up watching The Three Stooges and Tom and Jerry, both very violent. But I'm not a violent person by any means, nor are any of my peers.

Don't put me in the same room with Orrin Hatch though.

I was practically raised on video games, Atari, Intellivision then Nintendo, playstation etc...
There was also the violent TV and movies.

I was also into comic books, later I started reading Burroughs, Jerzy Kozinscki and other authors known for their violent,(even obscene)imagery.

I have spent over 30 years up to my neck in violent imagery from the media and I am not a violent person, but I also have not experienced much violence first hand, which means more than all of the other stuff anyway.

A tendency towards violence has been well proven to be at least partially the result of genetics.

yet who can say what affect the violent imagery of today will have? My violence was usually cartoonish, tempered by bad graphics and cheesy special effects.

Also disturbing is the "stylishness" inherent in the violence of today, witness the Matrix. Guns, shades and trenchcoats Blowing away a room full of people with a shotgun never looked so fashionable.

In my opinion, the violence itself isn't the problem, it's the lack of moral context, that's why video games are the target here, games like Vice City reward you for cruel and sadistic behaviour, and I personally wouldn't want my kids playing it, even though as a consenting adult, I might enjoy it myself.

"well it turns out video gamin' is pretty good for ya.... ....It is knowen to increase your reaction..." - Danny Martin "To what? a gun?" -Mr K (a quote from the past school year, I have the conversation in .wave format on my box, need to ul it.)

damn right video gamin' is influencing us, influencing us to hate terrorists, communists, vilins, hijackers, and other 'bad guys' (ie. RIAA).

I have long been a gamer. Yes, I like first person shootem ups. If anything I tend to think it relieved any tension I might have been harboring inside. At no time has the thought that a video game is so close to real life that I could just go do this. There is this thing called reality and it isn't inside the computer or tv. There is no instant replay in reality, there is no reset button either.

I have a hard time understanding that anyone in their right mind can't come up with the same conclusion on their own.

Video games are fantasy. Fantasies are not harmful until someone tries to make them a reality. For example, TELEVISION.

Television has very harmful effects. Video games have none.

"If anything I tend to think it relieved any tension..."

It's the truth. Why snap and kill people when you can just blow some stuff up in a game instead and get some satisfaction out of gibbing some alien bastards to hell? Take away my video games and then see what happens.. !

hmmm, I should leave this alone. still I wonder if playing a video game is worse than being trained to kill people as a cop. or more to the point I wonder if cops who play video games then go out and kill people and count in this analysis.

I think if you kill someone in a morally unjustifiable way, then there's a good chance you're already a messed up human being, and your parents (or maybe a significant life event) probably made you that way. I believe there are psychopaths who join the police force. They probably want to do some good in the world, but are also probably the ones who end up shooting one guy 20 times in the chest.

Video games don't harm anybody's psychological well-being. If your kid kills someone and all he does is play video games, then he's probably screwed up because of inattentive parents. The video games are coincidental 100% of the time. I promise.

captdunsel - They probably are counted in some of these analyses. That's why they come out so against video games. =)

Here's a newsflash - kids today do violent things because their parents are morons. Lock the kid up, lock the parents up.

Having played hours & hours & hours of GTA: Vice City, Far Cry, & Soldier of Fortune I & II, I have yet to carjack anyone, pick up a hooker then kill her, or blast away at someone with an automatic weapon.

Maybe I'm just not playing enough...

I've never been into playing video games...I find them boring ( read...I'm shitty at them). Both my nephews play quite a bit and having had long talks with the youngest of the two, I can tell for a fact the kid has his head on straight. Actually, there is a game he likes that is more like a comic book than "real" images. It's the one he likes the most. Maybe there's a trend towards actually less than lifelike imaging.

The gaming thing is just like anything else. If obsessed with, any harmless activity can overtake a person's psyche. I once saw a man jogging in a snowstorm...kid you not...this idiot was running in the one track left by the plow in blinding whiteout conditions.
Now we all know jogging is a normal activity, but running around in a snowstorm is the sign of a obessed individual.

"Media violence is only one of many factors that contribute to societal violence," Anderson has written, "and is certainly not the most important one."

I'll buy that. To say that media has no effect on the psyche is just silly. There's a reason corporations spend billions on marketing. Because it works.

I seriously hope these guys don't get their funds from my tax money..
Violent video games don't make normal people go insane and start shooting their families. Notice the usage of the word "normal". On the other hand, if a person who already is psycho starts playing violent games he might be inspired and start doing these things in real life. Violent games do not make people go psycho, they inspire those who already are, end of it.

Well, here's my take. I played Halo for the Xbox. But on that same console I play Jet Set Radio Future (inline skating with painting the town red as the theme)

I've yet to pick up a gun to kill anyone. Nor do I have the artistic talent to go out and spraypaint a building.

So, with common sense as the guide, we know not all people do the things IRL that they can do in a game. Just like a book was demonized for all this stuff, I guess people can't feel satisfied until they control it. And that's the one thing that quite frankly will never happen.

This is so stupid. It's basically one big insult to all the people who like to play video games. I'm definately agreeing with godless-heathen. I think games on the contrary contributes to a calmer society, where you can take out all your agressions att home, in front of your computer or console or whatever.
If there weren't TV shows, games etc. I think I would've beaten quite a few people by now. Thx Soldier of Fortune I&II!

they said the same thing about the jitterbug in the 20's, television, radio, certin magazines, movies, dungons and dragons and now video games. Remember the movie "The Music Man" when a pool table was going to corrupt the youth and turn them into delinquents. It was a humorous exageration but not far from the actual truth of the time. I used to play cowboys and indians and war games with the neighborhood kids.

The truth is all life experiences shape us, both positive and negitive.

My son said it best once when this topic came up, he said "do they think I'm so stupid that I don't know the difference between reality and a video game?"

It's never simple to understand why one person could take another's life; I have a hard time understanding the anger that must be involved. Over the years, people tried to blame it on every facet of the media--television (Ronny Zamora was just home from prison recently) and we all know the suicides that were blamed on Ozzy Osbourne's music, not to mention the infamous Beatles song "Helter Skelter." The breakdown in our society is not caused so much by those things, in my opinion, as it is caused by the disintegration of the family unit. Too many kids growing up with other people's values. I wouldn't blame any one of these things for what people do, but I have to wonder why no one in their families sees these violent acts coming.

I use FPS games to calm my nerves.. the ideal game would be one which allows me to scan in a few pictures of certain idiot politicians so the game would superimpose their faces on the enemies.
Maybe halo 2 should have a feature to say... allow me to put hatch's face on those big blue guys =D

I don't even play computer games like that -- I prefer word games and puzzles. But if you come up with one--and don't forget Cary--let me know. I'll be first in line to buy it!

compmore i left you a DMusic note!!!

Some of those puzzle games make me more violently angry than violent video games

The consensus here is unanimous. And a lot of us here even have major problems with the "media" as the author called it. I wouldn't really call video games "the media." Video games don't hurt anybody and everybody knows it except for dumbasses without a real cause. He probably knows it too. Maybe he's jealous because he doesn't like "those damn kids and their new fangled gadgets!"

John Douglas said it best.. it's not the product, it's the predisposition. That's a paraphrase, but I'm serious. There hasn't been a SINGLE CASE ever won with the defense "I saw it on tv". Kids shooting old ladies, sayin they saw it on Kojak.. guys feeding draino to hostages, saying they saw it in a Dirty Harry Movie.. both of those particular cases were shot down in court and the perpetrators are or were behind bars. Why? Because the public KNOWS BETTER!
I have to wonder tho, if they put real life bad guys in these, how many "kids" would buy them.. and how many ADULTS would? They use "real" Navy Seals to market SoCom.. they use cops and detectives (fake) to market some shoot em ups.. it's not about the content, it's about the marketing. Shoshidge hit a good point.. it's pretty bad when shooting up a room full of people while wearing Foster Grants is fashionable.
Oh there is SOOO MUCH wrong with this, but I won't rant anymore. Suffice it to say that I think this is crap, and there need to be more studies on what TRIGGERS a killer than what MAKES a killer.. fine line true, but a razors edge has many pitfalls.
ttmmm

This debate is a political smokescreen to divert attention from their lousy performance !! 10/4 flbgbt

Can we have a 1st person shooter where the bad guys are all RIAA and Lawmakers who are bought and paid for by the RIAA? I don't personally like 1st person shooters, but I would play that game.

Its time we be responsible in teaching our own kids whats real and whats not and stop asking law makers to be parents for us. And its the adults who are complaining to our law makers. Perhaps these complainers should go see Dr. Phil. They're the ones who has a problem. Not me.

Actually, if you're good with certain programs (ie 3D Studio Max) you can make the models. Most games now days allow you to add custom models, and even make your own levels. Games come out no with tools that will help you create your own level.

There is this book at my local library that tells about the evils of video games. It was written in the '80s when Mario and Tetris were hot. They said the Japanese were trying to enslave our children...

I play "Pax Imperia" a lot. anyone know how I can crack into this game and draw my own spaceships to use? The game is a great game, but the ships look like ass and I wish I could graphically design my own with MS paint or some such.

I once bought a chess set and did not like the playing pieces that came with it, so I tossed them and used "Keen Klay" (tm) to make my own.

I like 1st person shooters! I don't smoke, do drugs, nor do I have cancer! I'll do have a beer now and then though...doh!!

Video Games are quite good (Halo, Freelancer, Doom III, etc.). Especially for my insanity. Otherwise I would gone postal on the political dumbfucks in my area.

I agree with most of maddox says.
http://maddox.xmission.net/

if this is the case then the Big 5 played Monopoly too much....

Hrm, I've used computers since I was a very young child. Back then (I'm 21, but in technology years, I'm ancient since I was actually paying attention when I was young) they didn't really have so much by way of ratings, and, what little they had, everyone ignored. Walmart would gleefully sell Doom to a 5 year old -- provided the 5 year old handed the clerk a few crisp $20 bills... I remember I loved that game among many others like Mortal Kombat that were quite violent. Even today I play many games that are incredibly realistic and violent.

Now, about the effect on me. Well, I've been in one fight my entire life, and that was only TECHNICALLY a fight. The other person attacked me, and they were so pitiful I didn't even have to defend myself, merely wait while they did their idea of fighting. This is my entire life mind you and most of the people I knew have been in a minimum of one REAL fight where both hate each other enough that they'd love to see the other person dead. While I'm quite capable of defending myself and would not hesitate to do so, even feel a little like I could enjoy such things, I find that I absolutely could not attack someone else if I wanted to -- which I have never so far. I ignore threats (some to my life, not just to my health) simply because I just don't feel this supposed desire to throw pipebombs and otherwise do things that doom apparently causes one to want to do. It's funny really, because I played that game quite a bit when it was relatively new and even just a bit more later when the code was released and people started making versions that had extras like better graphics, the abilities to jump, look around, and etc. Funny thing is that most articles pick on stuff like the whole incident where a bunch of kids were apparently driven to a killing frency by Doom yet, this game is quite old. Doesn't it seem a bit curious that a nearly decade old game is responsible for affecting people in the present day? Yet, apparently Far Cry isn't. At least, not until 2010 or so it won't be.

I think it's stupid. Violence is linked to human nature. It's just that simple. There have ALWAYS been violent people doing violent things. The problem now lies more in the fact that younger people have access to more dangerous technology and information on how to use it. I'm not saying censors are acceptable either though. For one, they can't stop information, it will always find a venue whether it be openly on the internet or hidden in a black market where no one can find out until it's too late to do anything or even just something a friend got from his dad. My point is only that it's not that people are more violent, it's merely that they've found more deadly things to use. A long time ago, one had to have some little bit of skill to try to rob someone with a gun that could only shoot one shot, then required half a minute to reload, versus now you can empty a whole clip into someone if they start screaming for the police. This is just the downside to technology. Don't try to fight technology, fight the real problem. And, I must say, there's nothing quite like the stress relief one gets from playing Postal 2... If I get angry, I play that a bit, and boy do I feel relaxed. Yet, I never feel the need to actually do any of that stuff to someone.