http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040619/ap_on_re_us/police_shooting_piracy_3

By TOM HAYS, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - The entertainment industry tagged along when police raided a self-storage warehouse in Manhattan last year.

Private investigators hired by movie and recording industry groups had helped link a space in the warehouse to an alleged criminal operation pirating DVDs and compact discs. They were there when the officers moved in.

The teamwork might have gone unnoticed, if not for the raid's deadly outcome.

Undercover Officer Bryan Conroy was charged last week with manslaughter in the fatal shooting of Ousmane Zongo, an unarmed African immigrant working inside the warehouse who was not involved in the alleged pirating scheme.

The circumstances of the May 22, 2003, shooting remain murky. According to his lawyer, Conroy told a grand jury that Zongo refused his orders to halt, struggled with him and tried to grab his gun.

An attorney in a multimillion-dollar wrongful death lawsuit filed by Zongo's family considers the industry groups potential defendants.

"We don't know yet what role they played, but it's something we'll be looking at very closely," said lawyer Sanford Rubenstein.

Police and industry officials insist tactics used in the counterfeiting investigation played no part in the shooting.

The industry's battle against the thriving black market for knockoff compact discs and DVDs continues unabated.

"We're proceeding along as we always have," said William Shannon, executive director of the Motion Picture Association of America's anti-piracy unit.

The movie industry launched nearly 3,000 private investigations across the country in 2003 alone. The investigations resulted in the seizure of more than 500,000 counterfeit DVDs.

Last year, the recording industry association's anti-piracy unit took credit for seizing 5 million counterfeit CDs. Its private investigators teamed with local authorities in Chicago, Washington, Detroit and Jacksonville, Fla., for raids on clandestine "labs" that copy DVDs, CDs and videotapes.

In New York, the movie industry has six full-time investigators and two supervisors, Shannon said.

The investigators typically are retired NYPD detectives who conduct surveillance and tail suspects, but never participate in arrests. During raids, they remain outside until the location is secured, then go in to identify and inventory pirated merchandise, Shannon said.

"These are police operations," he said. "None of us rush in the doors."

In one recent case, industry investigators staked out an address where they spotted suspects delivering boxes of blank CDs. On April 27, police armed with a search warrant raided the spot, arresting one person and seizing 29 CD burners and thousands of copies of movies like "Walking Tall," "Big Fish" and "Jeepers Creepers 2."

Police officials say trademark counterfeiters hurt legitimate business, rob the city of tax dollars and lure consumers into buying inferior goods — and, like illegal drug sales, can spur violent crime.

In 1992, a man was killed during a holdup at a warehouse used for a pirating operation, and a second man was injured jumping out a window to escape the robbery. Four months earlier, two men were injured in a shooting at another bootleg factory.

"Here in New York, we take the crime very seriously," said Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly.

The Zongo case stemmed from the arrest of a man identified by private investigators as a piracy suspect. The man told police that knockoff goods were being stored in the warehouse in the Chelsea section of Manhattan.

Conroy, disguised as a delivery man, was one of 10 officers who converged on the warehouse where Zongo, 35, of Burkina Faso, was repairing African art and musical instruments.

The officers discovered thousands of bootleg CDs, DVDs and videos stashed inside two storage units. Conroy was guarding the cache when he encountered Zongo.

Though he had nothing to do with the case, Zongo ran away. He led Conroy on a winding chase through a labyrinth of hallways before being shot in the chest, abdomen and upper back.

There were no witnesses to the shooting.

If convicted, Conroy could face up to 15 years in prison.

So, all he did was run from the police? He didn't commit murder, rape, or even worse.. piracy.. and then run? He just ran because, as an African immigrant, he was scared, and that's all there was to it?

Why is Conroy only facing manslaughter charges? Why not murder?

This isn't so much an RIAA violence story as it is a police can do whatever the fuck they want and think they can get away with it story. Selling two storage units worth of pirated goods is wrong, so they had every right to go there. Too bad they blew away an immigrant for no good reason.

49 shots all over again.

Another factor explaining my point about how the RIAA's strategy of cleaning the life savings of the working poor and the weak, vulnerable and defenseless (i.e. 12-year-old girls, college students, geezers 65 and older), could be seen as a more "politically correct" method of their twisted idea of "reparations." Heartless and merciless, to be sure, but more "politically correct" than what we saw last year as above. To say nothing of the uber-bigoted, anti-technology "Induce Act[sic]" now before Congress.

However, though Zongo may not have been involved in "piracy"(sic) in this particular case, we must nonetheless not ignore the role that illegal aliens who flood our borders every year do play in terms of these counterfeiting operations across the country that, all agreed, DO exact the costs herein mentioned.

And in a way (per 'TheSherminator') . . . the RIAA's hatemongering campaign does have the potential to incite the kind of violence that manifested itself in the Big Apple last May 22 -- except against ordinary people who just HAPPEN to have P2P connections, or whatever.

I am going to contact the plaintiff's counsel and offer my RIAA files to him. Lots of good stuff to make the connection he needs.

now THIS makes me sick. i feel like i wanna strangle the cops working with the riaa. their supposed to arrest people who break the law. not help them.

and what kind of files are these. i may wanna see these my self for a good laugh.

This is taken from the article headline on the main site page.

"We must drive these German/Japanese/French/English cretins out of the US before it is too late."

Please explain, as this kind of drama is a pure product of american gun violence and coporate madness.

I'm not an immigrant, just your average US citizen and I can tell you that if I saw some supicious guy sneaking around a warehouse and then he pulls a gun.. I'd be out of there in a second. And if he wasn't speaking a language I understood or I couldn't understand his accent, it'd just be another loudmouth waving a gun. As far as I'm concerned, the cop should fry for murder. The cop was doing all the aggression and if Zongo got cornered and did turn on the cop, it was in self-defense. Pumping three bullets into an unarmed man is murder. The cop pulled his weapon with the intent of using it... hence premeditation. The defense will probably say it's his job to do that, but cops aren't supposed to kill citizens, they're supposed to protect them. This is just plain wrong.

What's next? RIAA Stalinist thugs showing up in the sneaky hours of the night search your computer drag you off to the Gulag and put a bullet in the back of the head. All in the hopes of making America safe from copyright infringement. Surreptitious Bastards

Sfoliver ... Sony is owned by Japanese; BMG is German; Vivendi is French; EMI is British; Warner is Canadian.

Everyone else...
The questions which you should be asking:
This happened in May. Why do we just hear about it now? Why did the press bury this until it got to court? How many other people have the RIAA/MPAA had killed that we HAVEN'T heard about yet? Why is this story STILL not available in the general media?
Never mind all that. Go back to downloading.

George--Education is the key---and you are a pretty good educator, even if you don't think so. I miss reading your comments, and I've been hanging around here for quite a while. I'm not much of a joiner, less of a contributor, but I am a great reader, and I'm trying to do what I can. That's all any of us are trying to do. PLEASE don't snipe and leave again. I know your wife has been here, I've seen her posts. We could use a little direction here, you know, and you are great at doing that. Have a little patience with us, we are learning!!!!!

"This happened in May. Why do we just hear about it now? Why did the press bury this until it got to court? How many other people have the RIAA/MPAA had killed that we HAVEN'T heard about yet? Why is this story STILL not available in the general media?"

Hey conspiracy theory guy: The press has not buried this story. It's been big news in this area. In case you didn't read the story, it was the NYPD that killed Mr. Zongo, not the RIAA. But the truth never got in the way of you twisting a story to serve your interests.

Googling the defendant's name shows that this story has been reported by ABC, CBS, Reuters, NY Post, NY Daily News, Newsday, NY Times, Washington Post, Court TV, etc.

Yeah, this story is not available in the general media.

on the yahoo news is said it wasnt a police officer but an investigator that was hired by the Recording Industry, and it said he was a former cop.

ShadowMom...
Sorry, but mroop's still here. It obviously knows everything so I have no purpose here.

Although I must add this:

I looked at several of those links, mroop. Not one of them mentions the fact that the RIAA and/or MPAA was involved.

But the truth never got in the way of you twisting a story to serve your interests.

"Private investigators hired by movie and recording industry groups had helped link a space in the warehouse to an alleged criminal operation pirating DVDs and compact discs. They were there when the officers moved in."

"Sfoliver ... Sony is owned by Japanese; BMG is German; Vivendi is French; EMI is British; Warner is Canadian."

I far as I know it's a US cop who did the shooting, working with the RIAA which is a US organization (with US businesspeople as executives, US lawyers and US lobbyists). Furthermore things like this only happen in gun crazy america. Oh yeah, and the MPAA is domestic and it seems from your last post that they're not any better.

So please cut the crap about the bad foreigners making all those horrible things happen in your perfect US. You should rather take a big look at corporate america, lobbying, the cowboy-cops, the NRA and the US society in general instead of finding a foreign scapegoat. Things like this only happen in the US, ever wondered why ? They don't happen in Japan, Germany, France, UK or Canada...

"In case you didn't read the story, it was the NYPD that killed Mr. Zongo, not the RIAA"

and if not for the RIAA the fucking fuzzes wouldnt have been out there in the first place. true? or not?

sfoliver...

I only explained the reference. I did not write it.

However, the RIAA is financed by these foreign companies and are paying to influence US laws. They are directly responsible for this action.

"They don't happen in Japan, Germany, France, UK or Canada..."

Don't be a fucking idiot.

"BERLIN — At 5 a.m. the police kicked in the front door of the modest apartment house near working-class Essen. Guns drawn, they ordered the family out of bed. A few minutes later, they hauled away a 22-year-old college student as his stunned parents looked on in silence."

"The German Anti-Piracy Federation, a private investigating organization funded by U.S. studios, German independent film companies and electronics firms, worked with law enforcement in March to stage hundreds of raids across the country. In all, 12 people were arrested."

"Hundreds of raids"... 12 arrested.
"Guns drawn, they ordered the family out of bed."

No one shot. This time.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=716&e=26&u=/latimests/20040618/ts_latimes/studioscuttothechase

"Bourges, France - France's culture minister, Renaud Donnedieu de Vabres, vowed on Sunday his country will get tough with illegal copiers of music and films, saying such piracy threatened French creativity."

"Donnedieu de Vabres's comments came as music industry professionals warned at the festival that piracy, particularly the illegal downloading of copied songs via the internet, was particularly damaging in France."

http://www.news24.com/News24/Entertainment/Abroad/0,,2-1225-1243_1517437,00.html

Foreign Secretary Robin Cook has asked the French authorities to investigate the death of a British adventurer who was allegedly killed by pirates.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/453328.stm

The UK is working on it...

PLANS for a national crime unit to tackle Scotland’s burgeoning black market in bootleg films and CDs are to be sent to the Scottish Executive.

Anti-piracy investigators warn that the scale of the illicit trade has become so great that First Minister Jack McConnell should establish a specialist police unit modelled on Northern Ireland’s Organised Crime Task Force (OCTF) to combat its spread.

http://www.sundayherald.com/39959

SHANGHAI, China (Reuters) -- Two hackers who broke into a bank computer
network and stole 260,000 yuan (31,400) have been sentenced to death by a
court in eastern China, the official Wenhui Daily said on Monday.

http://www.landfield.com/isn/mail-archive/1998/Dec/0120.html

'The UK is working on it...

PLANS for a national crime unit to tackle Scotland’s burgeoning black market in bootleg films and CDs are to be sent to the Scottish Executive.'

Not the whole of the UK, just Scotland. Seriously you don't help our cause when your stuff contains basic factual errors.

Sherminator,

Doesn't murder require forethought or planning?

I'm sure Hack Valenti still has a boner about someone getting killed in an MPAA raid.

"and if not for the RIAA the fucking fuzzes wouldnt have been out there in the first place. true? or not?"

True, but so what? If you hear a noise outside your house late at night and you call the cops and they come over and shoot a guy dead who just happens to be walking by your house was it the cops who killed the guy or you?

"Doesn't murder require forethought or planning?"

Generally speaking - murder is intentional and requires premeditation. Manslaughter is no premeditation and reckless.

Just better hope the RIAA doesn't get Tasers...
see my Taser report at "FROM THE TASER FILES"
at
http://codewarriorz.blogspot.com

Looks like prohibition time again. After what the RIAA has been doing all along, and what just happened, the pirates might begin to arm themselves like drug lords to protect their investments.

George ..
"ShadowMom...
Sorry, but mroop's still here. It obviously knows everything so I have no purpose here."

Mroop loves to drive people off of this site with his half truth drivel, and sharp know it all tongue. That's why we need more like you and sherm. Mroop wants guys like you gone so he can beat up people on this site unchallenged. Don't let him win.

Mroop,
Make sure everyone wears a seatbelt, or it could be a disaster.

Rule #1 of weapon possession; don't draw it if you don't intend to use it. The cop (or former cop) drew, pursued and killed. It was reckless to draw his weapon, I'll grant that. But esculating the siduation by pursuing shows intent. He was not only pointing his weapon at, but also threatening to kill his target... and he did.

As for the RIAA angle, it's not that the RIAA was a witness to a crime, like some neighbor. No, these folks instigated the raid and mostlikely filled the cops head with all sorts of crap to heighten the tension. Whether they pulled the trigger or not, if they instigated the rally or were on the premises (and therby influencing the outcome) they share in the crime.

If I buy some beer and pass it on to a teen and he and his buddies get trashed and kill someone ...I'm the bad guy. I started the whole chain of events. This is exactly what the industry is doing. I'm not saying that the black market doesn't need to be controlled, but there is a right way to do it and a wrong way... industry driven, bought and paid for mercenaries, is pure thuggery. It's the mafia era all over again.

WELL...if they come into my house and i'm home, I have 30 rounds per clip for them. they will need more than one pig to bring me down. i have no qualms about killing cops or anyone else in my house no matter their reasons. I don't believe the gov't or riaa has any rights on my property...oops there goes the midwestern sentiment again.

1.) "Germany is only unique timewise," said Willi Geike, head of Warner Bros. in Germany. "Two years from now it will be the same in other territories. It's coming. We were just the first ones." -- from the article listed by gdZiemann, "Studios Cut to the Chase."

If that quote doesn't tell you that people are being acclimated to accept having their doors kicked in for any reason, then you are blind. This is big business and the government destroying privacy rights, plain and simple.

2.) "The MPAA has helped bankroll 57 antipiracy organizations around the world, which are doing the investigative legwork most law enforcement agencies consider too low a priority to pursue. The group will not divulge the size of its investment in the groups." - from the same article listed above.

So we have Congressional members reveal donors, but we can't have big business open its' records, especially when those records involve attacking personal liberties? If the irony wasn't so scary, I'd be laughing.

"They don't happen in Japan, Germany, France, UK or Canada..."

Don't be a fucking idiot.

Sorry I meant "This doesn't"" I was tired.

So why am I a fucking idiot now ? Because you refuse to look at the harsh reality ? Because you don't want to clean your house ? Because you want to blame the RIAA for your problems the way you used to blame the Soviet Union ? The US have the tendency to create foreign ennemies, the last one before the war on terror was China. The US are not an island corrupted by foreign influence, deal with it or get screwed by the RIAA over and over again for not addressing the real problem. Corporate america, lobbying, gun violence (look at the crazy post by mmuc3).

You can single out isolated problems in foreign countries (why an example about China and hacking by the way, you were running out ?), but it doesn't change the fact that the situation is the worst in the US. Other countries might be working on similar stupid laws, but only in the US are they so pushed forward by lobbyist. The DMCA is spreading to the world but it started HERE. The broadcast flags, the digital radio... All HERE. The thousand of lawsuits, HERE. The cases you were listing are either planned laws, or case of DVD resale, not P2P usage.

So as I said, drop the pride, try to look at the real issue instead of blaming foreigners.

PS: What's the BS about the UK guy killed by pirates ? It's about as relevenant depostic china killing hackers (who might just be readinf western news on the nets by te way).

"ShadowMom...
Sorry, but mroop's still here. It obviously knows everything so I have no purpose here"
Every lawyer I know works out of an office and is usually too busy to watch TV or surf the net during the day.
It's easy for a person on the internet to claim to be something that in fact, they are not. I could claim to be the King of Siam but that doesn't make it so.
The world is full of people who are full of you-know-what.

The "BS" about a Brit killed by pirates is to show the difference between the pirates of the seas, and the innocents who are falsely referred to as "pirates".

Maybe this doesn't happen over in the UK, but that's because we don't have guns.

In a few more months, we may have the first suits over here, with the industry chiefs salivating at the prospect of being called good for doing wrong.

The lawsuits started HERE, the DMCA started HERE, the RIAA is located HERE--but the Big 5 are NOT HERE. They are OVER THERE. The RIAA is only a lobbying arm, spending a lot of time and money in our government's back pocket. At least in this country, we do clean up our messes, even though it may take some time.

the New World Order would love to cause us to think of ourselves as "part of the world" and to abandon both our sovereignty and national identity.

The current prez is just a tool for the globalists...

Are foreign countries pure as the driven snow? NO
Is our country a "White Hat" in international affairs? NO

They're ALL guilty....

toolandiemkr--mroop said he doesn't practice law per se anymore and has a business and works out of his home. This is exactly the type that can surf the web most days.

Mroop challenges some muddy thinking here and offers useful information. And he's against George Bush and this stupid war. Could he (?) be more polite in the way he offers his opinion? Yes, but then it wouldn't be as much fun.

Go moopie! (No, you're schmoopie.)

mmnuc3 - I agree completely. This country was founded with personal property rights in mind, not to have a government dictate what we can and cannot do on it.

Sfolivier - Why is it a crazy post? Mmnuc3 sounds like a guy who would have been great during the American Revolution. It's about privacy and how the New World Order wants to steal it, and our soverignty. It's about trying to acclimate us to being a world community, which any true American would never stand for.

I'm sick of any company, be it foreign or American owned, trying to have its' alleged rights trample on individual rights, especially when these businesses try to distort the law with lawyer-speak mumbo jumbo, that includes the RIAA, MPAA, Microsoft, et. all.

"toolandiemkr--mroop said he doesn't practice law per se anymore "

Somehow, I'm not surprised.

< snickers at toolandiemkr's observation >

Sfolivier -
I don't think Mmnuc3 is crazy at all.
I am "stocking up" here as well.

I just hope y'all don't accidentally shoot one of your family, friends or neighbors.

"Every lawyer I know works out of an office and is usually too busy to watch TV or surf the net during the day. It's easy for a person on the internet to claim to be something that in fact, they are not."

OK ok ok. I have a wireless laptop with me at my hot dog cart. I just got done with the lunch rush. You caught me. Are you happy now? :weeping softly:

"Mroop loves to drive people off of this site with his half truth drivel, and sharp know it all tongue. That's why we need more like you and sherm."

Puleez. Don't tell me you are falling for George's dishonest self pity routine. I do miss Code and Thumbtack. George, not at all. He's a bitter failed musician who blames the RIAA for his predicament. I listened to his entire album. Mediocre at best. Dennis DeYoung wants his keyboard sound back.

"Could he (?) be more polite in the way he offers his opinion? Yes, but then it wouldn't be as much fun."

True. : )

"They're ALL guilty...."

Yeah that's the sad bottomline It's why I disagree with specific fingerpointing, it's a general problem with corporations and the lack of care about people's interest and social progress.

"Sfolivier - Why is it a crazy post? Mmnuc3 sounds like a guy who would have been great during the American Revolution. "

Yeah I agree but, well, that was 200 freaking years ago. Times have changed.

I'm not an anarchist, I recognize the legitimacy of a democratic governement and I think having such a governement issue fair and balanced laws is the basis of a functional society. When the laws are bad, mostly because rich corporations buy the politicians, I fight with my vote and my idea, like a civilized citizen of a western democacry. Vote is the most powerful weapon. I don't start shooting civil servants.

I understand your point, but I totally disagree with the cowboy style of dealing with problems. My social hero is not the grandaddy with his shotgun waiting for the FBI agent in his rockingchair by the porch No offense, but I actually find it backward. As you said it was cool during the revolution, as I pointed, the revolution is part of history.

But hey at least we agree with the fact that people are trampled and that something needs to be done to reign in corporations. Even if we widely disagree on the means.

"He's a bitter failed musician who blames the RIAA for his predicament."

Actually, mroop, I do NOT blame the RIAA for my personal lack of success. The cause of that is my inability to market myself, not to mention my exceptionally poor taste in friends and fellow musicians.

I blame the RIAA for fucking up the Constitution, ruining the lives of 3249 people who they have sued for listening to substandard audio files (when they should be paying these same people for free advertising) and generally fucking over every artist in the world because they have a 10% success rate. (Barry Gordy of Motown had a 75% success rate -- he was no better in terms of the way he treated artists, but at least he had taste).

As for being mediocre... I feel the same way about 97% of the artists with major labels, so thanks for the compliment.

So where's your album, you anonymous coward? Where's your writing? For someone who has so much critical to say about everything that moves, you don't have the balls to put your own work out for public dissection and ridicule.

Because you don't have any?

"I blame the RIAA for fucking up the Constitution, ruining the lives of 3249 people"

The fact that they can wreak havoc on so many people is a sad statement about society being more sensitive to corporate profits than to human suffering. And usually, what starts the lawcase are teenagers making a few copies of songs... (NOT stealing them). It's almost to cry for to see things gone wo wrong againts the will of the majority.

"The cause of that is my inability to market myself, not to mention my exceptionally poor taste in friends and fellow musicians."

Nope. It's because your music is mediocre and boring.

"As for being mediocre... I feel the same way about 97% of the artists with major labels"

We agree on that.

"So where's your album, you anonymous coward? Where's your writing?"

My music is also mediocre. The difference between you and me is that I have the critical assessment skills and honesty to admit to my mediocrity. : )

Oh please, no pissing contests. Please!
(Unless there will be pictures).

Since we agree on point B, your counter-argument on point A is worth zip-point-shit.

Having established that even we agree that 97% of all "commercial" music is mediocre, it becomes a given that talent has no bearing on success. It's marketing. The Billboard charts are filled with mediocre and boring music. They just have the money for marketing, buying radio time and touring. I wasted all of mine hiring musicians I respected instead of investing it in myself.

"critical assessment skills and honesty"?
I thought you said you were a lawyer. Mutually exclusive.

Sorry, carla. You're right.

Since mroop is an AC, there can be no pictures.

Mommy, daddy, stop fighting!

What's an AC?

George, we've missed you!!! Haven't had a good sling match battle around here for awhile. Good to hear from you!

AC = Anonymous Coward

t whom ever says this only happens in america
bullshit
this all started her in the us i admit
but there are ever crueler penalties just for filesharing alone in most other countries
in euroupe some people are sent to jail for years ewith out trial or are humiliated and called criminals in public
and its foreighn buisness that has corrupted the american buissness capitol anyway
its either eroupean or chinese or jewish owned
yea theres some bbuisnesses owned by americans but most are not traditionaly from america
its foreign busness eithics that are fucking up american rights
and for other countries that blame us for this shit
blame our government not our people
we are helpless servants of almighy george too so blame the damn patriot act and the faggy democrats who wrote it
(why bush ever let the patriot act happen ill never know)
BUT yea other countries are worse off than us
but we arent that far behind
soon we will be as fucked as anyone else so cut the stupi foreigners suffer on us crap
the riaa are mostly foreighn itrest groups anyway so that my free speech
fuck the riaa and the tradituions it forces on us with no choice
FUCK YOU RIAA AND ALL CORPS WHO DARE MAKE ENEMIES OUTTA ITS OWN CONSUMERS
take your gay ass buisness ethics back to the goddamn ragheads lamer
quit turning our country into the united states of alqqueda
this is the united states of america asswipes
sue me youll never get a dime on my grandmothers grave i predict that you will slowly lose your control and filesharing will be forever(unless the power goes out heh)
you will lose and you will fail'
to me the riaa are no different then the terrorist
hell gambino was more respectable than this

I wonder what he's copying and pasting from.

"Mroop loves to drive people off of this site with his half truth drivel, and sharp know it all tongue. That's why we need more like you and sherm"

Ooh, I got a compliment. Thanks

mroop doesn't want to drive people away, because then he'd have nobody to 'prove' wrong =)

It's gets pretty damn personal between you two. Jesus.

dubbsak - more puntuation and at least semi-paragraph form. I can't read that.

Oh Carla60626....I love your comments! LOL

"So where's your album, you anonymous coward? Where's your writing? For someone who has so much critical to say about everything that moves, you don't have the balls to put your own work out for public dissection and ridicule."

Mroops not as anonymous as he thinks

Jumpins, this crowd is going at it tonight.

I kinda think George has a right to be bitter...considering the un-American way talented musicans are chopped down every day.

Where's the justice in allowing some moron like William Hung to get famous because he CAN'T sing?


Here's a scary website http://www.williamhung.net/

Let's see------ "worked in legal aid office", "at home", and "hot dog seller".

A good resume shows a variety of work experience and demonstrates the ability to learn new skills.

Everyone tells me that can't find good help. They've been looking in the wrong place!

Hey Sherm,

I agree with what You told dubbsak

I always miss out on the fun.

Just for the record I still think George Z. is probably the most informed person on the topic of the riaa that I have ever read. I just think it's too bad that artists have to spend their time fighting the political battles that lawyers are supposed to (that's a strong hint mroop- when was the last time you directly challenged the riaa on anything?)

oh well, the library will be closing soon so I have to log off and go back to my bench in the park....

mroop, George has every right to blame the RIAA for some of his "lack of sucsess" and you damn well know it.
The RIAA plays dirty with a monopoly of the promotional avenues between artist and consumer. Eleventy billion examples are abundantly evident at this site every day. (YOU even have cited some of them from time to time.)

(And George even stated that he doesn't blame the RIAA... I think he SHOULD blame them. I know that I certainly do lay blame at them for some of the reasons I myself don't have a chance at the kind of "sucsess" you are talking about. Call me a "weepy-whiney-no-talent" all you want.)

I personally think most of GZ's work is far above par as far as my own tastes are concerned. But that is what it all boils down to anyway... PERSONAL tastes in what is "good" or "not." Mroop, you damn well know this but are only trying to piss off GZ for whatever reasons. If you don't like his music, then you don't like his music. You have the right to make that judgement for your self. But you are sometimes so deliberately insulting it makes us all sick. (you are obviously aware of ...and get your jolly's on being that way, especially when feuding with GZ.)

Why do you have to always be such an ass? You profess disdain for the RIAA, and yet, you go beyond the call of duty to insult and rile up many of the finest in our little boycott-riaa community. If you are on OUR side, ACT LIKE IT!

Mroop, consider yourself scolded.

Shmoo, of Electric Gypsy
Support Local and Independent Music!

(and I suspect that you in fact DO like his music, but just love to piss him off by lying and saying that you think it is "crap")