{ FBI are apparently digital morons. We have been saying for years that digital is inferior to analog in quality. Here's another example. Here's to tube amps, real wood violins, L.P's. etc. Digital is to music as McDonalds is to food - faster, not better. Did you know they still use tubes in satellites? They perform better at extreme temperatures.-ed/)

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FBI used digital copy of print to finger wrong man in blasts


Brandon Mayfield, right, confers with his wife, Mona, in Portland, Ore., on Monday. A federal judge dismissed the case against him. (Don Ryan/The Associated Press)


The New York Times

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Days after the train bombings in Madrid that killed 191 people in March, Spanish authorities, who were unable to find a match to fingerprints found on a plastic bag full of detonators, sent the FBI a digital copy, hoping the bureau could find what they could not.
The FBI quickly and confidently found a match to a Portland area-lawyer, setting in motion a chain of events that led authorities in the United States to link the wrong man to those fingerprints, tie him to Islamic terrorists, arrest him on a material witness warrant, jail him for 17 days and then drop the case on Monday and face withering questions about how its investigation could have gone so wrong.
Court records unsealed Tuesday showed that the Spanish authorities had raised questions about the FBI's fingerprint match to Brandon Mayfield, 37, a Portland-area lawyer. Yet FBI officials were so confident of a match they described as "100 percent," they never bothered to look at the original print while they were in Madrid on April 21 to meet with Spanish investigators.
The FBI was relying on the digital copy that was sent to them, returning to view the original over the weekend, only after the Spaniards had linked the print to an Algerian national, and after it had aggressively pursued its case against Mayfield.
A senior FBI official said Tuesday the use of a copy of the fingerprint, rather than the original, was allowed by lab guidelines. "It was absolutely acceptable to examine a digital image," the official said.
But the official said that the question of how and when copies should be used will be reviewed by the bureau in light of the Mayfield episode. "We'll be looking at the effect of the digital imaging on degradations, if there is any," the official said.
In making their case to a federal judge in Portland for arresting Mayfield, a Muslim convert, FBI investigators said their reasoning went beyond the fingerprint match, according to the affidavit: Mayfield had represented a terrorism defendant in a custody case, telephone records showed a "telephonic contact" on Sept. 11, 2002, between his home and a phone number assigned to Pete Seda, the director of a local Islamic charity, the Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, who is on a federal terrorism watch list. Earlier this year, federal agents searched the foundation, seizing financial records and other documents.
The Mayfields denied having any contact with Seda. The affidavit also said that Mayfield's law firm -- he runs a family and immigration law practice in Beaverton, Ore. -- advertised in a "Muslim yellow page directory," which was produced by a man who had business dealings with Osama Bin Laden's former personal secretary. The yellow pages directory was administered by Jerusalem Enteprises Inc., which was registered to Farid Adlouni, a Portland resident whom the documents said was "directly linked in business dealings" with Wadih El-Hage, the former Bin Laden secretary who was convicted of conspiring to murder U.S. citizens. Finally, the affidavit said, Mayfield was seen driving to the Bilal mosque, his regular place of worship. That mosque, said officials with the American Civil Liberties Union of Oregon, had been under surveillance, but the FBI's mention of his attendance at the mosque as a justification for his arrest infuriated Muslim groups.
Thomas H. Nelson, a friend of Mayfield's who represented Mayfield before his case was turned over to Steven T. Wax, the federal defender for Oregon, said of the affidavit: "This stuff is so unsubstantial I think the only reason it was in there was to inflame the grand jury. "
But while Muslim groups attacked the FBI for its handling of the Mayfield case and accused it of ethnic profiling, bureau officials said that his status as a Muslim had nothing to do with the case against him.
"The people in the lab looking at the fingerprint had no idea what Mayfield's background was," said an FBI official who spoke on condition of anonymity. "That had absolutely no role in any of this."
FBI officials said the error was the result of using a poor digital copy of the original fingerprint taken from a bag at the scene of the Madrid bombing. The FBI said Tuesday its lab in Quantico, Va., had begun look at its procedures in this case and others, and the official said that review would focus most closely on the propriety of using fingerprint copies. New guidelines may emerge from that review, and the FBI also plans to bring in outside experts to review the case.
Officials said it was difficult to assess the damage that the incident could do to the FBI and the reputation of its lab, which has come under fire for slipshod work in recent years. "We certainly take this very seriously, but that larger question of what impact this will have is a very difficult one. I don't think we can answer that," the official said.

I found it somewhat humorous that the press made a big deal about the FBI "apologizing" to the attorney, because, it's like you walk down the street, see a guy that looks like someone you are mad at...walk over and hit him in the face so hard you break his jaw...he goes to the hospital and incurs big bills...and you prance in and say..."Oops, you were the wrong guy...Sorry.."
and skip out....

An apology just don't cut it.

I agree with leflaw. The real world is analog...shrinking it down to 1s and 0s just isn't as good as analog.

"Finally, the affidavit said, Mayfield was seen driving to the Bilal mosque, his regular place of worship. "

This is the really SCAREY one. Our country was FOUNDED on freedom of religion and worship. If this right is abused, not only have the terrorists already won, but NO ONE is safe.

"But while Muslim groups attacked the FBI for its handling of the Mayfield case and accused it of ethnic profiling, bureau officials said that his status as a Muslim had nothing to do with the case against him."

BULLSHIT!!! Then why was the first statement I quoted even mentioned! This is such a blatant lie by the FBI, that, quite frankly, someone in the FBI ought to be sent to prison for it. Its disgusting how our government can do illegal stuff like this and NOT face punishment. If I was this Oregon attorney, I wouldn't stop pursuing justice for this incident until someone was in jail.

government incompetence + digital technology = dangerous people

"I found it somewhat humorous that the press made a big deal about the FBI "apologizing"..."

The press was pressured into making a big deal about the apologizing part of this story and to de-emphasize the other part of the story which is the stink that should be raised by this wrong.

REPEAL THE PATRIOT ACT NOW!

Frankly, though, I think we should admit that we are at war with Islam. A certain kind of Islam, anyway. Many of the Mosques in this country have been radicalized. Does freedom of religion mean freedom to infect people with radical ideas that are antithetical to democracy and sympathetic to terrorism? I don't think so. As a matter of self-preservation, if such is considered constitutional, then the constitution should be amended!

Christ preached a gospel of revolution, but when he was hauled up before the powers that be, he said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, then would my servants FIGHT." There is the distinction here between that and Islamism. The Christian revolution is one within, and that is true with some flavors of Islam -- they say jihad is within. But obviously others have interpreted their holy books differently -- and, plain and simple, they should not be allowed freedom.

What kind of mosque did Mr. Mayfield worship at? What were they preaching? Love or hate? Revolution within or violence without? I admit the FBI are screw-ups, we see that all the time. But maybe there was at least cause for suspicion after all.

The Bible speaks of a revolution to come, in which Christ will subdue all governments of the earth, by force. (Daniel 11, Revelation 19) All who resist will become food for the vultures. So the Christian Bible is a radical book, in its own way. But Christianity doesn't tell its followers to take up arms now -- the soldiers in God's Army are not human beings -- thus it is not a threat to any legitimate democratic government. It is a threat to totalitarian governments, that's why they suppress and oppress it.

I cringe every time the President says we are not at war with Islam. Either he doesn't understand the nature of the threat, or he is just being politcally corect.

"Does freedom of religion mean freedom to infect people with radical ideas that are antithetical to democracy and sympathetic to terrorism? "

...don't know if freedom of religion gives you that right, but FREEDOM OF SPEACH SURE THE HELL DOES!

"I might hate what you say, but I will die defending your right to say it." --whomeversaiditfirstandiagree

...and we are NOT at war with Islam. We are at "war" with a bunch of evil murderers who have hi-jacked and continually abuse a religion's teachings for their own gain.

And I beseach that each you don't preach about speach being spelled like peach...

...cause I flunked math

Spelling, too, but you HAVE THE RIGHT to spell it any which way you want to as long as you get your message across. And I may have missed it, but is there some verse in the Bible that actually mentions democracy in referring to a government? Once you start making exceptions out of fear or ignorance, the Constitution, and especially the Bill of Rights loses its power. You have your rights, they have the same rights...as long as theirs don't infringe on yours.

if you would have researched thia a little more you would have found out that this LAWYER has ties to the portland seven that confessed and were convicted of crimes against the US . big deal he got put in jail for a while tough shit we are at war and if he is gonna run have dealings with convicted terrorist's then he should be looked at with a magnifying glass. this doesnt excuse the bumbling FBI they were probably busy tring to find the goods on files sharers to pay attention to details

Ultimately, we must face the question, IS ISLAM AT WAR WITH US ?

One must be evenhanded in assessing the dangers of excesses from both religions.
Both Christianity and Islam are EASTERN religions, Middle Eastern religions. Both Judaism and Islam have traditions in theocracy.

Also, both Christianity and Islam have certain traditions which are like vast lakes of gasoline, just waiting for a spark to start a holocaust. There is a twin tradition in BOTH religions, or the praise and glorification of martyrdom (giving your life for the religion) and intolerance.

Many Jews in the early period of Christianity, were deadset against allowing gentiles to be a part of the religion, and in fact, deep schisms arose between the faction that wanted to incorporate gentiles, and the "for the Jews only" faction. We only need to look at the glorification of the early saints ,some who were fed to the lions or crucified, to see this zeal for martyrdom.

Jesus said for people to sell their cloaks and buy a sword.

The war between Islam and Christendom was already fought during the Crusades, and an uneasy truce has existed ever since , with occasional acts of violence between the groups.

The seeds of real violence and war are these....there are extremist groups who take the underlying intolerance of other beliefs, and the glorification of martyrdom, and put gas on these sparks.

There are extremists in the Christian religion , especially in the Skinhead groups, Aryans, white separatists, neo-Nazis, etc., who have churches that preach this intolerance, and this "read to die for your race/religion" stuff to a fever pitch.

Martyrdom is a dangerous notion. Many kamikaze pilots during the end of the war were only given enough gas to get their planes out to the target, and it was divebomb the ship or crash at sea. Many were tied in so they could not eject.

The intolerance factor, i.e. "Believe, Convert, or Die" is a prescription for violence.

Now, are there writings in the Q'uran that promote violence against the "infidels"...yes.

In sum, I think Islam does definitely have themes (i.e. such as the jihad, although many Muslims claim that the jihad is like a personal struggle, non-violent, a battle within yourself) that are war-like? I believe it does.

But, for those of us who believe in God, and who believe that God wants us ALL to treat each other as brothers, and to spread love of our brothers and sisters as the earthly expression of God's love, the themes of intolerance, of forcing others to submit to the will of one, nationalistic God, is anathema.

The Jews and the Muslims are both Semitic peoples...meaning, that way back in the past, there was a familial relation.

"A new law I bring unto you, that you love your brother as yourself"

This is the reason most analog engineers won't trust digital sampling oscilloscopes.

Isn't it interesting that all these nations have teachings that their people are "God's favorites"?

What kind of God would create all life on this planet, but pick one bunch and say,...I really like you best...you are the "Crown of Creation"....

Racism, sexism, specism....they are all to me, thinly veiled religions of hate and only promote death, torture, and hell.

....and why digitized x-rays have up till know been unreliable for serious diagnostics.

but now...the new trend is toward digitization of MRIs, PET CT scans, x-rays etc...because of the ease of manipulation of things like contrast, storage,printout, and transmission to distant locations..

X-Ray films, hard copy, have recoverable silver in them, so there is some intrinsic recoverable value (though you have to save a lot of films to get much for the recoverable silver) in the hard copy films.

....and they probably used a compressed JPEG image.

"Jesus said for people to sell their cloaks and buy a sword. "

I am sure he was being sarcastic if he said THAT. (Or the meaning was, ..."give up your comfort and warmth - thus, the good you get in life ie. "the cloak" if you want to take up the sword.)

...sigh,

gimme my sword,

Orin Hatch opened his big mouth and now I am on a Jihad/Crusade.

Quick lesson on semi-conductors....

The reason semiconductors and along with that digital transceivers are not used in high energy medical systems and space is their inability (at least with current technology and materials) to absorb and/or transmit at high energy wavelengths(X-ray, gamma ray, etc). They aren't used in space due to reliability since a single high-energy photon will destroy a circuit that is not well shielded. They aren't used in medical x-ray systems because it would take almost a foot of silicon to ensure a reasonable percentage of photons are absorbed to generate the signal needed to "detect" something.

Digitial analysis of the analog signals is being done however, and this is considered the best compromise right now between cost of manufacture and getting the resolution and flexibility wanted. There is a place for both, since digital/semiconductors are clearly not always the answer.

Yeah, this is like the idiots who decided to digitize everyone's bank accounts. Now I'm sure we've all seen the series "Dark Angel" and know that all it takes is one electromagnetic pulse to wipe all those records out and suddenly everyone in the country is bankrupt. And for those that have not seen that show (which oddly turned stupid in its second year due to network interference) after this "Pulse" a facist government took over and everyone completely gave up their freedoms so now they are under constant surveillance, are told where to live, can't leave their "zone" without the proper papers and at least 95% of the population is still poor while the elite 5% rule the country and refuse them jobs.

http://www.aplacefortruth.org/Jesus.sword.hammond
"Put another way, may the Christian ever lawfully engage in combat of any kind, or does the Bible prescribe pacifism for the followers of Christ? A plain reading of the Scriptures indicates that the Bible does not support pacifism. Of central importance to this issue is Luke 22:35-38:



Then Jesus asked [his disciples], “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That is enough,” he replied. (NIV)



“If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” The words are disturbing to many Christians. If Jesus is “The Prince of Peace;” if it is because of him that nations would “beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks;” then why would Jesus tell his disciples to obtain swords, even at the cost of necessary clothing?

Many modern commentators maintain that Jesus was speaking figuratively. This is a legitimate thesis, but evidence for it is lacking. A thesis must be successfully argued; it cannot simply be stated. The person claiming this as a figure of speech must explain what figure is being used, and what the sword stands for."

http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/qselfdefense.html
"THE BIBLICAL CASE FOR SELF-DEFENSE. It is noteworthy that the Bible records many accounts of fighting and warfare. The providence of God in war is exemplified by His name YHWH Sabaoth ("The LORD of hosts"--Exodus 12:41). God is portrayed as the omnipotent Warrior-Leader of the Israelites. God, the LORD of hosts, raised up warriors among the Israelites called the shophetim (savior-deliverers). Samson, Deborah, Gideon, and others were anointed by the Spirit of God to conduct war. The New Testament commends Old Testament warriors for their military acts of faith (Hebrews 11:30-40). Moreover, it is significant that although given the opportunity to do so, none of the New Testament saints--nor even Jesus--are ever seen informing a military convert that he needed to resign from his line of work (Matthew 8:5-13; Luke 3:14).

Prior to His crucifixion, Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword (Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27). Here the "sword" (Greek: maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler's equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals. A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense.

Self-defense may actually result in one of the greatest examples of human love. Christ Himself said, "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:14). When protecting one's family or neighbor, a Christian is unselfishly risking his or her life for the sake of others."

The facts are these...the Bible is a yin/yang document which often alludes to this...those who would save their life will lose it, those who would lose their life for god will save it (paraphrasing)...the first shall be last, and the last shall be first...

Sure, Jesus talked about turning the other cheek ...but Jesus was not a namby pamby pacifist, and the Jewish people are a warrior people. Modern day Israel is not a theocracy, and their war efforts are more nationalistic and self preservation, self defense minded than religious in nature...but one must remember that one of the national heroes of Israel is King David..the warrior king...the Bible talks about the final conflict, the Armageddon...(Megido?)...

I think that we all must fight a battle, in ourselves, and against the evil in the world. In fact, the fact that we must fight a battle in the external world is a manifestation of the fact that those who promote the evil, have not fought the battle and won the battle, against the evil in them.

Each person has the seeds of good and evil within them. We must nourish the good and fight the bad. When one does the opposite, it increases the evil in the world.

OK...enough philosophy....back to the evil digital and good analog...
LOL

I guess the fact that there are Christian sects who subscribe to a philosophy just as dangerous to our society as Islamist extremists is self-evident. But we shouldn't be alowing them to spread treachery either.

Clearly the original apostles did not advise revolution against Rome. That would be Jewish extremism. But what you said about pacifism is well-taken. The Law of Moses is explicit about defending your home, property, family.

God's favorite people? Both biblical testaments, old and new, contain examples of people not genetically "chosen" who became part of the chosen people by their faith, their adherance to the true God. In the Old Testament, the example I'm thinking of is Ruth, who was not Israelite, but who was accepted into that society because she forsook the false gods of her people for the true God of Israel. And as a result, her blood became part of King David's bloodline. David was not "racially pure."

In the New Testament Paul taught that if you belong to Christ, "you are the descendants of Abraham, and heir to the promises made to him."

Being God's favorite is no picnic anyway. God starts judgment on them first, with the presumption that they "ought to know better." Perhaps "chosen" would be a better representation than "favorite." Jesus chose Judas, but that was no benefit.

Code, you've pointed out that there is enough complexity in scripture for evil men to twist and hang themselves with. And that's just what we have to fight against, no matter where it comes from. Martyrdom is a virtue in early Christianity, but not one involving killing innocents. If you were martyred for trying to SAVE innocents, then you'd have some merit. Radical Islam has twisted it backwards.

"Each person has the seeds of good and evil within them. We must nourish the good and fight the bad. When one does the opposite, it increases the evil in the world."

Yes, but you need to have the proper definition of "good" to work from. Blowing up the World Trade Center is "good" for some people. You need an objective standard.

----

As for analog versus digital, I actually wish we could buy reel-to-reel tapes instead of either vinyl or CD. I think it would probably be more musically satisfying. The new 24-bit SACD or DVD-Audio digital formats may be good enough to capture virtually all the virtues of analog without digital vices. I haven't heard those formats personally, so I can't confirm that. But I don't think the average person will hear the benefit, and I wonder if those formats are not going to stall out -- like 12-inch video laserdisc, never reaching mass public acceptance. That would be a shame, but it might happen.

The headlines in the newspapers and TV today all have the story of the government’s concern that there are indications that the terrorest are planning another attack within the US. My question is, ‘what limits are you going to put on law enforcement in trying to prove the threat and find the people they believe are planning the attack?’

Code,
Can you please get rid of that ad about winning a computer. It upsets PG and my cookie manager.

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I really don't care about the terrorists anymore. The only way I will is if they kill someone I know and care about. But I will not change my everyday life because some idiot that can't pronounce Abu Ghraib right gets scared (or as Dubya would say "skeered") because two guys are seen talking on a street corner. Yeah, Dubya's people would consider me unpatriotic now, but patriotism doesn't mean you hate the world.

otech, youre right.

I've had sampling scopes alias ghosts back into the signal spectrum. What a nightmare.

Give me a good analog Tek scope anyday.

I'm glad the government wasn't to chickenshit to haul him in. The PC police are just waiting to slam good, logical investigative work as "racial profiling". Hmmmm, 100% of the foreign terrorists that have attacked the US in the past 15 years are muslims! And some of the domestic ones too! Omigod, let's arrest some Lutherans! You are judged by the company you keep. I'm SouthSide Chicago Italian, and back in the day I got looked at real hard, too, until I quit hangin' with the damn goombahs I grew up with.

I am going to defend the FBI on this one. Since I know the story for real, not the press, first hand. The sample was sent from spain, who did a terrible job taking the sample. The fingerprint tech, does not know the man or woman the print belongs to. He simply checks the print to another sample. That is is. It is just his job to say if the print matches on 16 points or not. Something that the Media didn't say is that Spain couldn't make out the sample and sent it to us. We didn't request it or try to set this lawyer up. Plus, if they were trying to set someone up, don't you think it wouldn't be a lawyer.

OTech..Here's the answer....
Wayshot is a genius. When an image is "hotlinked" back to a server, your browser goes to that site and requests that image. Someone had put the RIAA and DOJ logo on a couple of articles, and when your browser tried to load them, it was told to go to the RIAA and DOJ sites to get the pictures. When that happened, PeerGuardian would say, HEY NO WAY WE GO THERE, and would report it as a ping from those sites. I relinked the pics elsewhere, and now, it is fixed.

BIG thanks to our resident genius Wayshot. Great detective work Wayshot!