While one could argue that the sky is falling, it must be considered that our Constitution is more than 200 years old. Things change. Jefferson thought it should be rewritten every generation. So we lose a few basic freedoms? Big deal. We weren't using them properly anyway or people wouldn't be offended.

We should all begin to censor ourselves, like a citizenry of Stepfordian sameness. Then we should censor our thoughts.

Artistic expression? There is simply no place nor need for such in a utilitarian world as we are now increasingly drawn, ruled by the same supernatural forces of "good" and "evil" that have plagued mankind since the first dawn. For all of our science and technology, we once again embrace mythology to invoke divine intervention, certain that cosmos will see to it that the evildoers perish.

We must put down our guitars and paintbrushes. Art creates conflict, unless it follows a very select set of rules. It is not economically viable as a profession and to pursue it indicates a mental aberration.

If this position angers you, you must ask yourself, "What can I do about it?"

When you are capable of accepting that the answer is "Nothing," you will be prepared to take an honest look at the future. Until then, you're just fooling yourself.

================
For Sale
After reading reports of the Future of Music Summit, as well as current government activity, it has become apparent that there is no future in music. Someone else without enough sense to stay out of it may have some use for some of this stuff.

http://www.azoz.com

"After reading reports of the Future of Music Summit, as well as current government activity, it has become apparent that there is no future in music"
Well Mike, I for one did not feel that when I was there in DC. Yes, big bro is trying to take over radio, TV, newspaper but at the same time there are a bunch of folks out here flying under the radar.
If you read the one on low power radio the news looks good. The FCC will be approving it in the future.
But from what I got from the the FCC's Mr. Copp was keep the pressure on and keep your eyes wide open and VOTE, send in e-mails to them and letters.
So I just cannot agree with you on the whole thing of no future of music thing. As I travel around and go to all the cool radio stations for interviews and all, well yes there is a future but it takes work and sweat and lots of flying under the radar and not over it.
Still Pickin'
Bill Hudson

true music will always be with us. it talks to the soul

Hey, look at the ups and downs that the industry has subjected Meatloaf to and how he has climbed back on top. Yeah, musicians take a lot of crap from record company manipulation on many levels as well as a few other sources, overseas organisations don't pay the royalties to domestic ones for royalties, or when they do the locals give the money to big acts instead of the indiers who earned them, and this new "internet over the power cable" idea is going to screw up our listening choices by rendering conventional radio unusable and pirate radio impossible, but there are still a lot of folks making a living from music and some getting rich.

I think a lot of people are expecting too much from music. It isn't that long ago that there were hardly any people actually making a good life from music. Musicians in the old world trudged from castle to castle hoping that they would be received and fed at the end of a long night's work if music was all they did. Otherwise they worked a full day then played at a barn dance for supper and a pittance. Musicians have it pretty good now.

I for one am not quitting the industry. In my mind quitters are automatically losers.

Shmoo - I could kiss you. For those of you who don't know GZ, let me tell you that we have been through pure hell trying to make music for him. He needs all of the encouragement that he can get right now. I'm his wife, but I can only do so much. He needs all of you.

I meant "make music work for him".

True music will never die. Music = Education, but education means teaching people that music is more than some 16-18 year old band playing three power chords on TRL, selling their album on image, and stating that metallica or Iron Maiden was one of their idols growing up, when its apparent that the only metallica they have ever heard is St Anger or Black - or from IM's case Fear of the Dark- example. Music is picking up an instrument, a guitar in my case, purchasing a $6.95 music book, or teaching yourself how to play off the internet (now that this is available), and jamming, learn to play rock, flamenco, classical, jazz, blues, wherever your interest may lie, and create your own stuff. Sure this takes time and work, but hey thats part of the satisfaction of accomplishing something at the end of the day. Learning chords, riff patterns, different notes, learning to appreciate which patterns sound right to you, and which dont. That is music my friend, and no one can ever take that away. Nothing in life is ever accomplished without hard work, giving up now means just that, giving in to the music industry's bullshit.

Again figfamer a damn good way of putting all of it. Yes in the "old days" you just about had to go to the castle to get your crumbs. Now......... all bets are off and there is much dust being kicked up and the work is out there but it takes a load of work to get there.
And by the way your comment on folks expecting too much from music is a good one. That would be a good post! My big goal in life is to sell 5,000 CD's a year. I could live on that and do my music.
Still Pickin'
Bill H.

Great post Mike...hope the cartoon I put up indicated how you feel.

Seriously though...George..we may argue from time to time my friend...
but, from me to you, if music is your life...don't give up...I understand your frustrations...and, only you and your wife can decide what's the best for you...

If you ever need to talk..you have my number...
~Code

"We should all begin to censor ourselves, like a citizenry of Stepfordian sameness. Then we should censor our thoughts.

Artistic expression? There is simply no place nor need for such in a utilitarian world as we are now increasingly drawn, ruled by the same supernatural forces of "good" and "evil" that have plagued mankind since the first dawn. For all of our science and technology, we once again embrace mythology to invoke divine intervention, certain that cosmos will see to it that the evildoers perish"


This is a joke right ?

debazoz - I sent George an e-mail.

without George around that's one less quality source for us to plagerize from when we say eloquent things in support of our worthy cause.

Yes, 0Hz, it is a joke. I posted one last night on the forums here and at another site I go to.

Only a couple of people got it on the other site until I explained to them what "A Modest Proposal" was about.

George,

I hope you aren't so angry that you don't get to read this. But I have to say to you, Thanks....

I say thank you, because, through you, I have learned SO MUCH about so many things, I'm not sure I can list them here.

I've learned alot about the Edison Phonographic company. Some things that should be taught in our classrooms each day, but are sadly overlooked.

I've also learned much about copyright, copyright infringement, and about how horrible the music business is. I've always known it was a 'business'. I didn't realize how crooked and obscene it really was.

I've learned how evil and crooked the RIAA is as an organization. How they lie constantly. How they extort money from innocent families. How they don't reveal information about CD sales to back their campaign of suing people. And why I shouldn't invest another cent I earn in their coffers.

It's through reading articles and comments of yours that I have learned many of these things. I know you feel like quitting, but education is the most powerful tool anyone has to kill oppression. You are a great educator, and I don't have the words to express my thanks. You may want to quit the music business, and, quite frankly, I really don't blame you. But PLEASE don't stop educating. The world will be a scarier place if you do.

Again, I've never taken the opportunity to sincerely thank you for your information. I only hope I'm not too late.

debazoz Is there anything we can do to help. Just name it.

I almost forgot to give my respects to Mr. Z

I hope you change your mind, but if you don't, know that may others will benefit from what you have given. Every view is important, but yours has helped many understand.

Good luck.

Ah mad-sailor thank you for clearing that one up, I almost went for my beta blockers J/K.

I echo codes words to GZ
if music is your life...don't give up...I understand your frustrations...and, only you and your wife can decide what's the best for you...

and add
although I don't understand your frustrations, music is communication why would you wish to stop communicating in this way.

pepe512000 - I don't know right now. If I ever figure it out, I will let you know.

Music. The one thing I never truly understood until recently. Listening to a drummer play his soul to the people in front of him and reacting to something that you can't put in words but you know it's there. A feeling that you get from a lover, a feeling that you get from knowing that there is someone out there that understands you.

Now that I know this feeling, I truly want to share it whenever the band that I'm with forms up. I was taught it was better to give. Giving the gift of music is what we need. Let's get the bureacracy out of our music. They're only needed if they can pick up and play their own instrument on the road.

INeedALover has a point. Education does help us. It helped me to see that perhaps the young really do have a future in music. Just gotta get entrenched interests out of there. And while I haven't been here too long, I've learned a helluva lot. I go on to use this education to help other people make a better choice. One of those people that helped me was GZ. Reading his words and finding out that there was always common sense behind them (no matter how brutal) really sobers someone up.

Good luck GZiemann. I'll wait for a further education at a later date.

I do know. Somebody need to give him a purpose for his life. Somebody needs to give him a job to do. He needs a purpose.

Good point JC123! And yes a good way of putting it. At the sametime one always needs to keep an ear open to other people out there and learn more as to staying alive from playing music. And I do mean alive, its not easy.
My saying is T.O.S.-Time ON STAGE, its what it all comes down to. No matter how much flash and cash you have. It always comes down to that.
That being said, one has to work the phones, do the mailings, and be very hands on. If one waits around for "them" to find you the big star well it will not happen. Get good work skills and keep you head above the waterline.
Still Pickin'
Bill H.

Deb, could he be a music teacher or give private lessons?

debazoz- you've hit on a really important point. when we lose sight of why in the heck we are here, or something for us to drive toward, especially, as you hit the fifth decade of life...one starts wondering what all this is for...what is our life about...after everything is said and done...have we really made this world any better than we found it.

I'm not sure the Z-man would want us talking about him in the third person, but Deb, you certainly know him better than any of us.

I suppose, ultimately, we all have to find our own purpose...but I do know exactly what you mean.

Anyway...again, if George wants to blow off steam....I'm close as a call...

I think we all want to help in any way we can Deb...

~Code

What would GZ prefer to be doing?

debazoz

What do YOU think George's talents are, besides his incredible music abilities, his gifts for teaching and his knack for enriching peoples lives, such as the ones on this site, who so obviously love him? ~pepe~

Writing, playing, producing, mixing . . . gathering more data and ammo for the battle, creating web pages, typesetting books of interest, graphic designs for artists, etc.

I'm sure he won't be really happy with me that I've put all this out here, but honestly, I've been holding onto the end of my rope since last summer when he went to Iowa.

GZ-I love you. Mac loves you. I can't seem to communicate with you any other way.

debazoz...is George even visiting the boards?

From your post, I am guessing you are saying you think he does.

I don't really know what any of us can say beyond offering words
or support and encouragement. George knows he can call leflaw or me if
he wants to...and George, if you're out there my friend....
my two bits worth...

You really need to talk with Deb...since she obviously wants to help.

With that being said...that's all I have to offer on this...

God Bless You George...
God Bless You too Deb...

"Hey's where's that guy behind the curtain?"

darn pesky typos are buzzing around my keyboard...meant
"Hey where's that guy behind the curtain?"

If it weren't for the typos...I would be typo free!

Thanks, I know. You guys/girls are all wonderful.

debazoz

You hang in there, sometimes us gals have to go out on limb to get through to our men. If you need someone's shoulder to cry on, or just need to vent, feel very free to write me at 512000@yahoo.ca I live on my computer, and some here have even told me that I'm "astute" ~pepe~

Is anyone else feeling depressed?

I spent half my time saying, that YES you can make a difference, projects like PeerGuardian and BoycottRIAA show very much to me that where there is a will there is a way!

People said Linux would never get a 10th of the Market it has today, and look at it up there, powering Weta Digital and other forerunners in society!

As far as I am concerned, even if I don't make a difference I will fight anyway! I will not rest to see my rights taken away anywhere, by anyone - not my government, not my neighbour, and not in the name of any "God"!

Argh I am ranting, but from my limited experience of this site, this is a pretty major blow for this "side" if that is the correct name.

Though I don't know you personally Mr. Ziemann, I would like to express my feelings that music is not dead, as a student I see "real" music all the time, real bands that just play for the enjoyment.

It is there that my support lies, not with a corporate "product".

Just because it is not sold on CD doesn't change its power in a community.

Many people would argue that the best acting can be found on stage and the best comedy live.

Perhaps one day the media will realise (especially with the introduction of the Internet as a major medium) that we don't actually need them any more.

As for censorship, there will always be organisations who stand against that, primarily online. Look at the idea of new "p2p news" to beat country-wide censorship just to see how much power the net has.

Oh well, I would like to express my thanks as to the work you have done, and I hope you enjoy your day/year or however long it is before you are seen around these sites again.

Sincerly,
Joseph Farthing
Methlabs News
Editor

Remember this one:

http://www.phataudio.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=138

I wish someone would step up to the plate to help him do this? I'm a teacher. We just don't have the money to wage this battle alone.

I just did a small search on him and here are a few places where he has been used as a reference:

BBC
CDNet
Sound & Vision Magazine
Business Week
The Maelstrom
Music Dish
Wired
PhatAudio
Rant Central
ITWorld
O'Reilly Network
Digital Songstream
Washington Witness
Boston.com
Shifted Librarian

Pretty good for a regular guy I'd say.

Why couldn't Boycott start a fund for the lawsuit? Even if everyone only gave a little, maybe we could get enough together to help George do this? The word is spreading about this site, and about the things the government and the corporations are doing behind our backs. What say, bosses?

debazoz - George is not just a regular guy....but, in the best sense of the word, he is a regular guy...meaning he is someone who, because of intelligence and hard work, has made a name for himself.

I think George and you need to talk about what the best thing for your both is.

I think you both are great folks...and, here's what I believe. Sometimes, the things we love, end up not being the only thing for us to do.

We can beat our heads and beat our heads against the wall, but there comes a point at which you say to yourself "Hey, this wall just ain't giving!"
and then you decide your head is not meant to be a battering ram...

Regardless of whether there are windmills to tilt at or not....the MOST important thing for you and George, or any of us...is to do what is right for you, and what makes you happy.

George is a good musician, and George is a very talented writer...but, my question to you, and more importantly to George is...is this what is making you happy.

Self actualization and doing good deeds for others, is only workable after you take of yourself and your needs, because, in the end...if you don't care of yourself, and your basic needs, you burn the candle out at both ends.

If George's life is about music, and that is what makes him happy, and something he cannot live without, George
WILL be doing music, even if he has to do something else to bring in the cash.

Now, with regard to the lawsuit, lawsuits are horrible things in some ways, and Leflaw will probably agree. When you personally take on a shark like the RIAA, even with a lot of cash, you are looking at months or years of having your personal life turned into hell...and, is that something either of you guys want to go through?

I think George should write a book about the music biz...he could go a long way toward exposing the corruption, and that would put a lot of his talents to work.

George is a very talented and very important asset to this site. Although he and I have occasionally not seen eye to eye on every issue, I have always appreciated and respected his honesty and his sincerity, and his ability to write compellingly.

But, there is a cost-benefit analysis we all have to do in life....is this (insert the issue here) costing me more than it is worth, in money, health, or mental harmony.

Of course George will always be a musician ...knowing him as little as I do, even I believe that. Music is something that, if you find it part of you, will always be in your heart and soul.

But, the question is, does George want to keep trying to make music a career or not.

Debazoz, you won't find the answers here. The answer(s), whatever they are, are to be found in George.

So, we can all send supportive comments, but ultimately, this is something you guys have to decide.

That may not be an answer to anything, except to direct the search inward.

I just think that we all, especially nowadays, need to find whatever peace and harmony we can in life, and whatever successes we can find.

One of my favorite poems that I think gives one great instructions is Desiderata by Max Ehrmann
---------------------------------------------
Max Ehrmann


Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.


Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.


Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.


Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.


You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.


Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.


With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.


Max Ehrmann, Desiderata, Copyright 1952.

We sometimes feel that what we do is just a drop in the ocean, but the ocean would be less because of that missing drop.

debazoz

So much for astute, I can't even keep track of my email address's. For that venting I mentioned? Reach me at
seacape1@yahoo.ca I guess I'm still relatively new here, I don't recall hearing about the lawsuit... that's a pretty rough road to try to travel by yourselves, going up against a monster like them. No doubt you are both frustrated. With so many Indie bands kicking around though, you'd think this kind of action would be right up their alley.

Come back, George. Please. We need your voice.

George Z take a break get away for awhile write some songs do some recording smell some roses DON'T let this war with the RIAA poison your soul!!! Get out and enjoy life get away from all this stuff for awhile. When your ready come on back we'll all be waiting for you!!!!!

I agree with Stilltrying..I don't post much on this site,but I do read it everynight and raise points brought up on here to everybody I know.George has made many great and important posts.I would love to see more from him.

It can be too much at times though and you need downtime.So I say this to George. Take your time.I know your heart is with us.You love music too much to stop fully.See you when you get back

Debazoz all you can do is help George through this time he will come to a point he makes a true choice.Either he will see that music is what drives him or the crossroad will take him elsewhere.

Yes he will be a great loss to us all if he chooses to not play music and fight with us,but he does have to follow his heart.

I hope you come back and enlighten us more George,but if not good luck and tell us what you are up to.

Your friend(even though you really don't know me at all)
Dalavar (dalavardreaga@bellsouth.net)

this ranks up there to my sister telling me she thought it was illegal to download our music...

soon my friend we shall prevail!!!!

well, looks like everything has been said. I'll just add..
good luck, and godspeed. I've personally quoted GZ on many an occasion when i had nothing to go on, and come out on top. If nothing else, GZ and Deb need to know that there is respect, admiration and a lot of good karma here. I hope to see "GZ" on posts again soon, but if not, I'll still know he's out there, doin his thing, and the great thing, his knowledge (what bit he shared here) will live on in me and others.
Thanks GZ, for all your hard work and dedication. Thanks for setting me straight more times than I can admit w/o embarassing myself. Lastly, thanks for taking time out of your life to enrich mine.
ttmmm

I don't post a whole lot anymore. Don't have a lot of time lately and there really hasn't been much in the way of developments anyway but I gotta chime in here.

Short and sweet. George, I think more of you than anyone else I have met on this site. That's saying a lot since I really hold a lot of respect for Leflaw, Code and Bill Evans. I think so highly of you that I'm not going to give you advice. I'm not going to beg you to come back. I'm not going to whine because I selfishly wish you would continue fighting a battle that doesnt have any real meaning to most people outside of the music business. Nope, I won't do those things. It's a small world. We'll see you again.

I will however tell you this. I did a job I didn't like or want for almost 10 years. I never received a word of thanks from the people I worked for or the people I helped. I was sued by a suicidal child molester for saving his life. I was ostracized by an entire department for not working a guy over (who really needed it by the way) and for not letting others do the job. Long and the short of it was I didn't fit into the system. Well brother, you may not fit into the system either but you've managed to carve a place that will always bear your name. And that my friend pisses the bastards off without measure. You have shown them - almost single handedly that they are wrong and stupid and you've convinced a lot of other people along the way.

So I will say THANK YOU.

Don't give up on him Deb. He's a good man. He just needs to find his way and that's a little hard right now.

And if someone is setting up a fund I'll pledge $100 right now. Tell me where to send it.

Call me, write me, email me. You're always welcome at my table.

captdunsel@hotmail.com

Capt Dunsel...I want to thank you both for what you said, and your service as a police officer. In 51 years, I have never thanked an officer, because of what I have seen. If there were more cops like you, I would have a completely different view of cops. You're a good guy Capt...and I respect you!
~Code

Thanks to everyone. I don't know whether he's seen any of this or not, so I've copied it off in case he wants to. You are all so wonderful and supportive and I appreciate it so much. I don't know what the future holds, but I know this site has meant a lot to him for a very long time now and so have all of you.

debazoz

There's almost always something interesting going on here...it's addictive...in a good way I hope. So because of this, I'm sure he'll be back.

Sometimes, one just has to step back from the edge for awhile. Get a good breath, do some other things. It's healthy that way. This site and these guys will probably still be here when he's ready.

sending prayers to you debazoz and to wizard...hang in there...life has a way of throwing you curves, both good and bad....

it rained a lot here today...but i know there's sunshine coming...

~Code

Wishing you good luck and happiness George. Hope you don't take offense for my posting this thread, but when you e-mailed me back the other day and I saw how discouraged you had been made by the whole music war mess it made me even MORE angry at the 'enemy' than ever. The world is at a LOSS without your creative output in music and words, I blame the RIAA and the corporate monopolistic greed masters for many of the woes that all of us struggling musicians must face in this world. The unlevel playing field tips more and more in their favor all the time. And, as you know, the music biz would be far challenging enough even if it were a fair and level field.

Folks, let's put the RIAA out of business and avenge George Z!

Shmoo