A lot of people I talk to, even many who are anti-Bush, believe Bush is going to win.
Now, this is not to get into a Bush v. Kerry discusssion, but if we accept this premise for a second, of four more years under GWB, what might the USA look like?

We've seen the FBI raiding schools in Arizona. We've seen this Fastlink Operation going after warez sharers. We've seen the decisions on the warrantless searches out of the Fifth District Court in Louisiana, and the Supreme Court decision saying you MUST show your identification papers on demand.

The FBI has said that "protection of intellectual property" is their priority number three. We also hear president Bush calling for strengthening and continuance of the Patriot Act. And, we are hearing new and more troubling proposals coming from WIPO, an organization to which the US is currently a signatory nation.

We are seeing an increasing militarization of police officers, such that now, when they report for duty to cover a protest, they look more like soldiers than "peace officers".
At the same time, there are ongoing efforts to do away with the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 ( http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm ). This act prevents the military from doing law enforcement within our national borders.
"SEC. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment." More information on this Act and the history of it, found at
http://law.wustl.edu/WULQ/75-2/752-10.html .

I believe, that a re-election of Mr. Bush will serve as a perceived mandate for him and his group, to go forward and be even MORE draconian in their lawmaking and approach to civil rights, civil liberties, and privacy.

Right now, troops over in Iraq scheduled to come home, are told that they are going to have to stay three more months beyond the time they were to come home. There is a lot of talk now about possibly reinstating the draft.

From http://www.infowars.com/print/ps/thedraft.htm
"A senior US lawmaker has said deteriorating security in Iraq may force the reintroduction of the military draft.

Senator Chuck Hagel told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday all US citizens knew exactly what was at stake in the occupied country.

"Why shouldn't we ask all of our citizens to bear some responsibility and pay some price?" Hagel said, even if that price meant death.

The senator also argued that restoring compulsory military service would force "our citizens to understand the intensity and depth of challenges we face".

Social engineering?

The Nebraska Republican added that a draft, which was ended in the early 1970s, would spread the burden of military service in Iraq more equitably among various social strata.

"Those who are serving today and dying today are the middle class and lower middle class." "Why shouldn't we ask all of our citizens to bear some responsibility and pay some price?"

Chuck Hagel,
US senator "

Re-election of Mr. Bush would embolden and encourage people like Lamar Smith, Orrin Hatch, Patrick Leahy, et al, who are on a warpath against P2P networks and filesharing.
It would , I believe, be seen by the RIAA and others, as a confirmation that "the public is behind us in this war on piracy."

A re-election would, I believe inevitably lead us down the path where things like "free speech zones", where protests would be relegated to assemble in small, remote areas, would become the status quo.

Now, it is known that I am not a fan of Mr. Bush, BUT, I can assure you if Mr. Kerry were president, and the exact same things were going on in his presidency, I would say the very same things, and have the same concerns.

I see dark times ahead for this country if the current administration is given another four year lease on the White House. This is not to say it will be rosy with Kerry, but, at least, it will serve as a fire break against the exposive spread of making criminals out of good citizens.

In the past, I've heard people use the slogan with incumbents...
"Four More Years"....when I hear it, I know what I will hear instead, is
"Four More Wars".

I know there are those who disagree with me, and please feel free to use the space below to offer your vision of what may be the America which results from a second term of King George the Second.

~Code

offhand, i think chuck hagel should retire as a senator, and join the military. let's make him a jarhea- i mean, marine. keep him there for 2 years, then let him talk about how we should bring back the draft.

amen ringmaster...I have a buddy in Iraq in the Corps right now...
Old Men start wars, young men die in them.

Hagel can say whatever he wants, but everyone knows that a reinstatement of the draft would mean the middle and lower middle classes would lose more fine young men and women to the armed forces and not the upper middle and elite classes. How many rich kids did you see going off to serve two years during Vietnam? None. All they had to do was slip a little money to the draft board or their Congressperson and they looked the other way.

Now, I love my country. I believe in defending it from foreign destruction. But there is no way in Hell I'm going to join it's armed forces and go to some overseas place you can't find on a map and die a horrible death. The only way I'll die for my country is if the enemy were here on our soil, here maiming and killing our children.

No nation since the Korean War has really done anything to our nation. Really, North Korea never did anything to our nation. Yet we went there proclaiming we were defending "freedom" and slogged it out with a resourceful enemy. My daddy fought in Korea. It's not the zany laughfest as seen on MASH. He saw people die on both sides. Men, women and children. My second step dad fought in Vietnam. I don't think he actually fought at the front, but he has mentioned constant attacks by the Viet Cong and the army not being able to find them.

And don't get me started on Panama. What did Panama ever do to us? Sure, they elected a drug dealer as president but were we ever sure it was Panamanian crack killing our youth or Colombian crack?

The only country that has ever done anything to us since Japan bombed Pearl Harbor was when Iranians took Americans hostage 25 years ago. Did we do anything then? Of course not. Sure, we had a chicken in the White House, but Americans were being held against their will by maniacs following a maniacal madman and still we did nothing. Then they shot down our men going in to try and get our people back. That was an act of war and still we did nothing.

We have become a Police State, despite Dubya's repeated speeches to the contrary. He's lost my vote, not only because of the Iraqi-American War, but because he's trying to reneg on the promise of not making us a Police State. I bow to no one. I will certainly not bow to someone with an IQ lower than my own.

I don't see how there's much to lose in electing Kerry. He couldn't possibly be worse for this country than Bush.

This is quickly becoming a country without freedoms that is ruled by a government owned by greedy, unscrupulous corporations.

I agree.. as much as I hate to say it I'm now prepared to vote however I have to to get Ashcroft out of there.. if anything.

Even if it means that WIPO suckup kerry.

Well, Kerry looks like another limp-dick Dukakis to me. I am not going to vote for Bush, for reasons unrelated to this debate, but I recognize that almost certainly he will be in for another four years.

This is wartime. If you were alive when Abraham Lincoln was president, you would be screaming about how he was trampling on habeas corpus and violating the Constitution, and how awful it was, and we "have to get him out of there." Lincoln was far worse as a commander in chief than Bush, by the way. He let general after general flub up the war. Finally by chance he got Ulysses Grant, who was an uncouth, yet successful commander. So we lucked out and started winning the war. Sorry I'm not a history expert, but this is the best of my recollection.

My point is that in wartime things like civil liberties get distorted. This war will probably get worse before it gets better. And if Kerry gets in, we will be in economic trouble AND war after four years. With Bush, the same. Nevertheless, I think Bush lies less than Kerry. I kind of prefer him, though I won't vote for him.

The pendulum is swinging one way, but it will eventually swing back. History repeats. I believe this is the most rational way to look at the sorry state of affairs we see currently.

Scenario 1: Bush wins

Hatch, Leahy, Berman, Sensenbrenner and the rest of the RIAA lackeys continue to push anti-consumer legislation to benefit the foreign labels.

Scenario 2: Kerry Wins

Hatch, Leahy, Berman, Sensenbrenner and the rest of the RIAA lackeys continue to push anti-consumer legislation to benefit the foreign labels.

Scenario 3: In a Twilight Zone moment, Ralph Nader wins

Hatch, Leahy, Berman, Sensenbrenner and the rest of the RIAA lackeys continue to push anti-consumer legislation to benefit the foreign labels.

-glances at george- Damned either aren't we?

-glares at his post- "Damned either way* aren't we?"

The biggest problem is that everyone is convinced/brainwashed into believing a third party candidate cannot win. And unless that way of thinking is removed, we'll never have true elections.

For my part, and for peace of mind, I'm not voting for Skull and Bones-Class of '68 or Skull and Bones-Class of '66. There's no way I will waste my vote on those fools.

I'll reserve my vote for Ralph Nader or Aaron Russo (check out the websites). At least those guys are sticking closer to American principles then the nimrods running now.

i like russo

Scenario 1: Bush wins
Martial Law Declared
Rights are gone.

End of story.

I think we need to add another option to the voting ticket for state and federal seats.
Candidate X
Candidate Y
Candidate Z
Lottery

If lottery wins everyone who doesn't have a felony record and has at least a HS education SSN is thrown into a hopper or select em the same way we do jury duty and they pick the next person for that seat. Limit em to one term and there ya have it easy as pie.

I like that lottery idea demonchild

I live by Douglas Adams theroy of power. Anyone who wants to be in power shouldn't be allowed anywhere close to it. Only the people who don't want to control things should be allowed to control them.

Did those of you planning to vote for a third party candidate VOTE IN THE PRIMARY ELECTION, when we had a choice (like Kucinich)?

You had your chance then. (Not you Lachatte, I know you haven't had your primary yet).

Now we MUST get Bush out of office. A third party candidate cannot win at this point and will only help elect Bush.

WHo's Aaron Russo? Is he another independent canidate running for the upcoming election? Is he more liberal or conservative?

"Right now, troops over in Iraq scheduled to come home, are told that they are going to have to stay three more months beyond the time they were to come home."

Right now, my son who is in the National Guard, has been told it could be up to a year. They have already served a full year.

Pianotex...you're right!
And, thank your son for his service to our country. I find most kids in the service rarely if ever have anyone thank them, and I do that every time I meet one.

Prideful...Russo is trying to be the libertarian candidate
http://www.russoforpresident.com

I'm ticked we still have the popularity vote (i.e. political masturbation), it cost us one good man already.

~weeps for Dean.

Prideful - Russo is running under the Libertarian party banner. His views, which he freely promotes, run along the line of, what in the old days would be called anti-Federalist. His platform is one of less government, more freedom for people.

Carla - I did vote in the primaries for Kucinich. But thanks to the media fawning over Kerry, my vote was in the minority. (Any vote was in the minority after Iowa. I still find it amazing that Kerry was dubbed 'the man' after winning one midwest caucus/primary.)

I am not a fan of Mr Bush, but the wrong man got the nomination for our party as well. The biggest problem with the current white house is John Ashcroft, however, whats to say the John Kerry is going to do a better job. John Kerry flip flops on issues more than an IHOP pan cake. Me, if i do decide to vote this year, I ll go with the devil I know, rather than the Devil I dont know. In the recent months I ve learned enough of Kerry not to trust him, any of the other candidates would have been better, I dont see Kerry doing anything different.

hbkfan--I'm quoting from Dennis' website:

The Kucinich Campaign wants to make sure that Bush is defeated this year. But a weak Democratic Party that fails to meet today's challenges won't win the election.

To help align the party platform with the values of most Democratic voters, we are collecting signatures for 5 petitions, reflecting our most urgent national priorities:

Iraq,
Health Care
The Patriot Act (Civil Rights)
A Department of Peace
and Jobs/Trade (NAFTA/WTO).

(I previously posted the above information in the forum)

Kucinich has petitions that people can sign regarding these issues to submit to the Democratic convention in Boston. http://www.kucinich.us/VolunteerAction/petitions.php

I think we should add a petition for copyright reform and fair use for file sharing and send it to Dennis and/or the Democratic National Convention.

They say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...and thus, I found this quote by Ms. Barbara Bush quite interesting....

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0905-04.htm

"On March 18, two days before the U.S. invasion, Barbara Bush had an interview with ABC-TV's Diane Sawyer.

''Why should we hear about body bags and deaths and how many, what day it's gonna happen?'' Mrs. Bush declared. ''It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?''
[words of Barbara Bush, the president's Mother]

Who are you going to vote for CodeWarrior? Basically, I want to vote for whom ever respects are civil liberties and privacy the most (apparently it's not going to be Bush or Kerry), and is most balanced between liberal and conservative, and not extreme on either side. I would MUCH RATHER vote for somone who is VERY LIBERAL and at leasts respects our privacy rights and civil liberties a lot, than someone who is conservative who DOESN'T CARE AT ALL ABOUT OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES AND PRIVACY RIGHTS, AND THUS SIDES WITH GREEDY CORPORATIONS!!!!!! I am more conservative than liberal, but I think there should be a a good balance between both. However, our civil liberties our BY FAR MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN WHETHER THEY ARE MORE CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL. SO who in that case out of Nader and Russo respects our civil liberties more? This will be my first time voting.

hbkfan (Is that for Hoobestank?), I am totally frustrated with so much hingeing on what happens in Iowa. So many voters feel disenfranchised by the primary process. At least you got to vote in the primaries. We, in Pennsylvania, have not had a primary election yet.
Hammer...I've heard that flip-flop thing said about Kerry (from the opposition), but I don't think it's really accurate.

After watching the 9/11 hearings, I think there was a good chance that it would not have happened if Gore was President (the Clinton administration foiled the millenium bombing plots).

AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH
WE have become a police state and no candidate right now I see is fit to lead us to a better future, I did like DEAN but he's out and this country is going to go down the toilet with either skull and bones idiots that get elected. which is going to make us even more of a hated country in the middle east as well as around the world there is also ground swell of people at home in this very country that is hateing our selves for how things are going. My question is how do we change this very picture of our lives and country? we have come this far as the most freedom loving country in the world now we are the most hated soon nobody will want to come here to this great land of oppertunity with lady liberty's meaning is reduced to a mere word that has no meaning anymore.

Prideful...thanks for asking.
I really am torn because I like Mr. Russo's message better than most..I like Kucinich, but he has some views I don't agree with.

My problem is that, it is the third party conundrum....if you really are afraid of one of the major candidates winning...you become afraid that a vote for a third party, is one less vote for the one who does have a chance of winning...


I'm NOT a fan of Kerry due to his anti-filesharing stance, and the fact he appears to be in bed with big media, but, I guess it comes down to voting for ABB (anyone but bush), so, I'll either vote for Russo or...shuddddder...Kerry when it comes down to it.

Such a choice reminds me of a fighting technique in the Chinese martial art of Liu Ho Ba Fa Ch'uan (Six Combinations, Eight Methods Boxing). The aim of the art is to put an opponent into a predicate in which , no matter what he does, he gets hurt, and he just has to make a decision about how bad he gets hurt (esp. in grapppling techniques)...so...it's the lesser of two evils I guess...but the lesser of two evils..is still evil.

~Code

I'm not going to vote for either. They are both against file sharing and the rights of musicians. There are two theories about voting that I totally disagree with:

1. If you vote for anyone except a republican or a democrat, you are throwing away your vote. This is total BS. You should vote for who you agree with on the issues. In my opinion, you should never vote for "the lesser of two evils", always vote for the one who supports your views, even if you think they don't have a chance. No vote is a waste, every vote sends a message about your views.

2. "Not voting is a horrible waste". This isn't necessarily true. If you don't vote because you are too lazy to get off your ass, then that really is a waste. But if you don't vote because the candidates do not support your views, I think that can be a very powerful message. But you have to let them know about it. Write a letter to the state and federal government and let them know that you didn't vote and why. I think this can send a strong message. Sure, they probably wouldn't read these letters, but if they got enough of them they would realize that neither of the major parties has the issues right.

With this in mind, I have a question. Does anyone here know of a politician, at any level of government, that supports the views of this website? I can't think of anyone who even comes close, but maybe there are and I just don't know it. If there is one, please let me know. Thanks!

The first time I ever voted was in the Bush-Gore contest.
I voted with the majority of the popular vote. My candidate lost.
Kind of an object lesson for me that year.

fatherbrennan- I don't know if Aaron Russo has specifically come out
in favor of filesharing, but after listening to him and being on his
mailing list, I think if any one would be on our side, it would be
Russo. Someone said a while back they thought Kucinich was sympathetic.

Former NFL Player Killed in Afghanistan

Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan after walking away from a multimillion-dollar NFL contract to join the Army Rangers, U.S. officials said Friday.
http://www.statesman.com/hp/content/shared-gen/ap/General_Football_News/FBN_Afghan_NFL_Player.html

One more thing I thought I would throw in just for the hell of it: I for one don't give a damn whether other countries like us or not. The world has never liked the US, this is nothing new people! What Bush is doing is not making the world love the US, there is no doubt. But it doesn't really matter because they didn't like us before Bush. America could completly change it's policies and try to please everyone, and I guarantee we would still be hated. We are the last superpower in the world, as long as that statement is true, we will be hated. Just thought I would throw in my two cents, because I know quite a few people who are taking how the rest of the world thinks of us as a consideration in their voting, and I think that shouldn't even be considered. Do what YOU think is right, no matter what your views are.

Russo huh? Thanks much for that info Codewarrior! I'll look into that and let you know if I find out anything.

Carla - I agree that the petitions are a good idea. Do I think the Democrats would listen? Probalby not. But t least if we tried, then we can say we did, and then look for a different solution.

Lachatte - the hbk is for a wrestler I used to watch.

Here's a bit of history which shows how far we've regressed in a short period of time. In April of 1968, shortly after incumbent president Johnson announced he would not seek re-election, Bobby Kennedy announced his decision to run. In April.

Today, if you don't start a year ahead and get the media on your side, you might as well forget even trying to run. Does anyone really think that if someone we all liked were to announce his attempt to run that he or she would stand a chance?

That's how much the primaries have changed in under 40 years.

In a populist movement, fracturing your coalition across unnecessary issues and motivations is ill conceived. It is more important to unite people whose goal is to replace the RIAA regime, than it is to judge their motives for wanting to do so.

It is not important that I may be a Republican from Texas who supports Bush. What is important is how can you use my skills to help spank the RIAA. Currently the answer to that is, "Not very effectively." An environmentalist would call that a huge waste of natural resources.

--
Diversity is exposing yourself to different opinions. Not limiting yourself to the same opinion from *different* people.

You can wipe your butt with your letter Fatherbrennan and at least get good use out of it that way! They are NOT LISTENING AND THEY DON’T CARE! America is supposed to be a government for the people and by the PEOPLE! And it is a FARRRRR CRY from that! For example: When Californians voted YES for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA, even tho it was the largest voter turnout ever in CA history, our answer was HELL NO, YOU’RE NOT GETTING IT! I worked at the polls too and saw it myself!
I believe this IS one election where WE DON’T HAVE A CHOICE BUT TO RETIRE PRESIDENT BUSH! And a FIRE BREAK ~ RIGHT NOW, sounds like a GOOD IDEA! It’s Got To Be JOHN KERRY cuz Russo, will never WIN, so WHY take ANY chance on losing everything last little thing we’ve got! IF YOU DON’T WANT OR CARE ABOUT SAVING YOUR OWN ASS AT LEAST DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN! OUR CHILDREN NEED EDUCATION, NOT WAR! Ghandi said, “Wars are only fought over what DIPLOMATS cannot agree upon” and I think ALL CHILDREN deserve a whole lot more than to be USED as these ASSHOLES PAWNS! YES, INDEED! GO JOHN KERRY!

I'm with George on this one. The country will look EXACTLY the same whoever wins so I don't care.

BTW my son was extended as well in Iraq. We still have troops in Kosovo which Clinton sent over too. and we're in a differnent administration. don't see any change there.

And Korea Which Truman started. how many changes in government since then??

fatherbrennan I agree 100%

CaptainMorgan- Personally, I am one man, not a populist anything, and as much energy and time as I have devoted to fighting the RIAA, retaining my rights and liberties is FAR more important to me than anything having to do with the RIAA and their soiled tunes.

After all, you lose your right not to have your premises searched without a warrant, you lose your right not to go somewhere without being stopped and having your "papers" demanded to be presented, you get drafted to go fight and die in Iraq or some other land for rich people's agendas...the whole downloading songs thing pales in comparison.

I'm not speaking for George, Larry, or Tom...just me...but, after talking with a LOT of people in Texas and other states, I know my views are not unique to me. The problem with the RIAA is a subset of a draconian world view that says that the individual's rights are nothing compared to what the State wants.

To be honest with you, if there was a choice which I had to make between having freedom of assembly, rigtht to redress the government for grievances,
right to freedom of speech, right to privacy, and on and on....and listening to MP3s from ANYONE...I'd choose freedom...but such a choice should never have to be made.

For us to say.."Oh, we must not deal with other issues...we might dilute our support" and put blinders on to the injustices and loss of freedom, would be as wrongheaded as if Mr. Kerry ran on only one issue, and refused to talk about anything else for fear of alienating someone.

To me, I think freedom, a good economy, privacy, right to peacefully assemble, should be as important to the most left democrat as the most right republican.

The real thing we need to focus on is how, as humans, we have COMMON needs and concerns. Does either party want to stand for a bad economy, hundreds or thousands of young people killed in a senseless war, the Big Brotherization of an economy, with RFID chips in everything, surveillance cameras, TIPS programs trying to turn everyone into glorified snitches on their fellow citizens?

If so...I'm against the party whatever they call themselves.

That may be too simplistic...but I don't think so.

This whole "intellectual property protection" nonsense is heralded and triumphed by the PNAC (project for a new american century) which has, as signatories, a veritable whos who of the current administration (except king george number two is not a part).

Compmore...didn't know they had extended your son's stay man....geez...will pray for him to stay safe Dude!

Back to the topic though. I've been successful in a political battle close to 20 years ago, and as part of my organizing, I contacted the NRA who had tangential interests to ours (our issue was with protecting the ability to buy or sell martial arts training weapons through the mails). The NRA copped out and said they had to stay with their issue(s) and felt they would dilute their power if they showed support for our effort(s). Well, we won, defeating bills in the House and Senate, and yes, I dealt with Orrin Hatch, Ted Kennedy, Arlen Specter, and others. We won, but I never forgot the slimy attitude of the NRA (I had previously had respect for them), and the whole notion that we must stick with one topic and not show solidarity with others, left a bad taste in my mouth. So, to me, the issue is freedom, and the RIAA actions are a subset of those who would limit our freedoms.

Respectfully,
~Code

"After watching the 9/11 hearings, I think there was a good chance that it would not have happened if Gore was President (the Clinton administration foiled the millenium bombing plots)."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
What a crock of horseshit!!!
That has to be the funniest thing I've heard since Al Gore lost the last election!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Right on Compmore!

Mr. Compmore, God Bless You for raising such a fine son and God Bless your son and ALL THE OTHER SOLDIERS EVERYWHERE that are fighting right now with their very lives for FREEDOM! But WHY DON’T WE THE PEOPLE HAVE IT?! HUH? How on Earth is the going to give others something its own citizens don’t have? The promises our OWN CONSTITUTION guarantees have been MISERABLY BROKEN! :heartbroke:
And Btw, there is a very big difference between disliking the and OUTRIGHT HATRED FOR US! And NO we haven’t always been disliked! In WWII, WE WERE REGARDED AS REAL HEROES AND EVEN LOVED! But THIS NEW WAR is stirring up the WHOLE WORLD like a HORNETS NEST and our once peace loving ally countries are starting to hate George Bush and we are gonna pay the price if things don’t change! & I don’t think we will be paying with MONEY either! Thank God we have do have an election! I think our President right now IS way OVERWORKED & it’s very obvious in his recent speeches And God Bless Him! Mr. Compmore, I just wish all of our boys could be home right now but I understand they’re going to have to be there a awhile longer... BUT WE CAN CHANGE THIS NIGHTMARE and TURN IT AROUND . with the upcoming ELECTION & I truly believe it is the ONLY WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY that we will ever have in which to do it! Peace & God Bless!

You got it wrong, Code, it's: Bush loses, martial law declared, Bush wins martial law declared at end of second term.

Why shouldn't we ask all of our citizens to bear some responsibility and pay some price?"

Chuck Hagel,
US senator "



Gee Chuck let's start with your kids!!!

All Kidding aside, does anyone really believe that a son or daughter of a rich US Citizen wouldn't be able to pull strings to get their loved one out of the draft? Who does he really think he's kidding?

Since this is the government conspiracy thread...

The US House of Representatives has approved a "doomsday bill" allowing for special elections to be held speedily in case terrorists target Congress.

The elections would have to be held within 45 days, in the event that 100 or more members were killed.

It is suspected that the Congress building may have been the intended target of one of the four airliners hijacked on 11 September 2001.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3652169.stm

If you ask me the draft should be reserved for the absolute worst situations. Like another world war, or an alien invasion...

Right now, they are using the idea of a draft as more of a political weapon than a reality

The irony George is you had to go to a BRITISH news service to see reporting of something being done HERE. To me, that fact alone speaks volumes
And, remember, a conspiracy is just two or more people getting together to plan to do something bad/criminal. Conspiracies happen all the time...

It's not really a "conspiracy" thread...but the thesis was for folks to develop their own vision of the country we might have if Bush is re-elected, given the way things are going now...

If things continue at this rate...I guess gasoline will cost here, what it's been in Japan for some time...what's that...five bucks a gallon? Thing is...Japan is a relatively small island...Texas and Arizona are not...

LOL>..the conspiracy thread...as opposed to what...the RIAA is bad thread...with the voice of the guy from South Park who says "You shouldn't do drugs cuz drugs are bad (m'k) If you do them you're bad" doing the voiceover of "The RIAA is bad...ok?"

http://www.soundamerica.com/sounds/cartoons/South_Park/Ikes_Wee_Wee/204_whybad.wav

The first time I voted was in 1998 during the mid-term elections. I've always voted for the winner. I almost didn't vote in 2000, but as I was coming home from work that day I kept asking myself "Bush or Gore?" I really didn't want Gore because he was a pathological liar and a robot so I ended up going for Bush. He won. He actually did good at first. Then 9/11 happened and he turned evil. So this time I won't vote for him. Kerry's got my vote.

I'm glad someone else in the world can admit that Abe Lincoln wasn't so good a president as we've always been lead to believe. Sure, he helped end slavery, but he did it bloodily. If he'd found a peaceful way to do it, we could have avoided all the troubles of the past 140 years.

I understand your idealism CodeWarrior. I think you would find that we have very similar values even though we may have different political parties.

Because we have diverse views in one area does not mean that we are not allied in a common mission against a common threat. There are various other common allies among us as well. EFF, Swarthmore, Free Culture folks, Free Sofware folks, the Consumer Electronics Association, 123 Studios, the computer industry, various hacker groups, etc.

If you sat all these people in a room and tried to get them to agree on WHY we want to stop the RIAA actions, we would lose the battle 10 years before we agreed on motivation. Staying focused on the common goal is what gives these organizations power.

Our battle is worthy of winning. Period. It doesn't matter if some want to win for the glory of communism, some for the glory of science, some for pure art, and others for fair markets. What we have in common is that if the battle is lost, WE ALL LOSE.

Losing a just war idealogically is not better than winning a just war pragmatically.

Our greatest resource in this fight is that we and our potential allies out number our opposition by at least 100 to 1. That resource should not be squandered carelessly.

Well, everybody's focused on the presidential race, with good reason. But what does the President have that no member of Congress does? A TERM LIMIT! The only way we are going to have a federal government that sticks to its Constitutional mandates is if we limit their terms. No lifelong politicos building their donor base by dishing up pork. The only laws that will ever get passed are the necessary ones, and the pork-laden garbage of today will be no more.

Yes, I agree....ALL members of congress should have term limits as well. It would put an end to a lot of this crap that goes on now. The trick is getting them to make it so.

Twisted, they're actually trying to repeal the 22nd amendment so that Presidents can serve as long as they want. Funny, considering they ratified it to avoid another FDR.

We need to hire mercenaries from other countries. Train them, arm them to the teeth and pay them well. Problem solved.

greatscottpr... thanks, he is a fine young man. I wish I could take credit for raising him but... that goes to his mother nuff said

Hey George, C-Span showed the House discussion on the expedited elections. It was funny. Ok, surreal.

Captain....the RIAA should lose because they are evil, and are trying to take away our rights, and that is simple enough for me, and a fine yardstick to apply to any other parties who try to take the freedoms and rights of my family and friends. And, at heart, I believe in NO government...thus, I am a true anarchist...not mob rule which is a disorganized democracy . The natural conclusion and extension of government is Nazi Germany, and as a half Jew, I've made it a point to learn quite a lot about Adolf and his boys.

I honestly don't believe it is idealism to say, that if we are to live under a constitutional republic, that we demand that our constitutional rights not be infringed. Sure, the country was started by idealists, but pragmatists stepped in and together it worked...at least, works until those who would deprive us of those precious liberties stage a silent and bloodless coup in the courts and in the legislatures.
~CW

"RIAA should lose"

Yes they should. The real problem is making them lose which is not a given.

Using your metaphor, the Nazis "should have lost" when they invaded Poland. They were evil. However the Pole's preperation and planning was insufficent to make them lose. Ditto for a long list of other countries including the Brits, French, Russians and the Americans.

It took a coordinated effort from Allies to make the Nazis lose. Even with that coordinated effort there was a large amount of repressed ill will among the allies. The key to winning was repressing this ill will and maintaining a clear focus against the common enemy.

Because the allies repressed their ill will during the war, we are rewarded with the luxury of being able to bitch about the French, Russians and Brits now.

On the other hand, had we squabled about Russian human rights and French backbone in the '40s, we would all be united by our common frustrations with the thousand year reich now.

In four years let us have the luxury of bitching about the two party system and the worthless candidates it puts forward as our leaders...

But for **** sake don't let us still be united in subservience to the RIAA.
CM
(your ally)

My dad's voting for Bush.

He thinks he's doing something good for the country.

He thinks Rush Limbaugh is a really great guy , and everything he says is perfectly right and accurate. I should listen to him more. I already listen to him plenty... I think he wants me to accept his views more. All of them.

My dad is a registered Republican.

My dad is one of the greatest people I've known all my life. There's nothing he doesn't know or can't learn to do, and he's been one hell of a role model for me.

My dad's been sober for 3 years.

Thinking about this makes me want to kill myself, and I don't know why.

Thinking about this makes me want to kill my dad, and I don't know why.

Thinking about this makes me want to kill everything, and I know it's because the human race is sick and disgusting. Either cruel enough to destroy everything, or too weak to defend against it. Sometimes both.

See, everyone's polling for Russo. I want to go with Gary Nolan as the libertarian candidate...

"Nolan is realistic about the purpose of his campaign: "My goal is to be able to communicate [to voters] what Libertarians can do for the country, in such a away that people get interested in the party and join the party." On the issues, Nolan proposes that federal spending be dramatically reduced over the next four years so that the combined tax burden from all levels of government does not exceed 25%. He wants to repeal all the security measures imposed after 9-11 in order to "immediately restore of our full civil liberties." Nolan also proposes that an individual retirement account be established for every American, consisting of their prior Social Security contributions, funded with Treasury bills of appropriate maturities. Former LP National Executive Director Steve Dasbach and current LP National Treasurer Bill Redpath have endorsed Nolan. He has also qualified to appear on the California and Missouri Presidential primary ballots. "

Russo won't really try to change the DMCA or Patriot Act. I believe he'll try to strengthen the power of the WIPO if he's given a chance simply to give them more money. I could be wrong but that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

War is still another tool for curbing the vote.

aphoxema, chill out.

Watch some Marx Brothers movies, and Laurel & Hardy. Listen to some positive rock music, like the Beatles. Read the four gospels and the Psalms. Help yourself. Be strong. We need you to support the boycott and help educate your friends, family, acquaintances about our cause. If you go postal, you won't do anybody any good in prison.

It is a sin to kill. It is a sin to want to kill. Put that out of your mind. Put something positive in your mind. Output is related to input.

Just a little public service message. "The more you know..."

JC123-write Nolan and ask his position on file sharing.

autodidact- bunch of darn sinners over there in Iraq

We need someone who's willing to ignore the polls and do what he/she as an informed president thinks is right. I strongly believe that we can solve our issues with the draft and our troops in Iraq by making one simple decision - to stop partially trying to kiss the world's @$$. Granted we went over and started a war against a good portion of the UN's will, but the UN is a laughable institution capable of nothing. If Europe despises us so much, and I know they do from personal experience, why do we have so many troops over there helping them out? Why do we have to lose thousands of people in a war for their benefit for them to give us an empty smile and turn their backs a couple years later? Why should we even care what the rest of the world thinks. Sadly, it's every man for himself in the world view. Therefore, we might as well stop paying out donations for empty smiles. Pull the troops out of Kosovo, take them out of France and the rest of Europe. Give our fine men and women ( Thankyou all very much for your sacrifice ) the return home they deserve and stop spreading our resources thin over a bunch of fools and hypocrits.

AMEN!

I guess lets put it this way. Do you think Bush is actually encouraging politicians like Lamar Smith, Orrin Hatch, and Patrick Leahy to push legislation that would felonize file-sharing, or are you just saying that Bush would side with them when asked? Are we really for sure Bush is against file-sharing, or is that just the assumption because of the draconian laws he is pushing for he claims are needed to fight terror. I used to think Bush was good when he was first elected and presidnet. But with what he's trying to do now, I sure as HELL realize he's not with pushing for more of these "Big Brother" FASCIST laws using the term fighting terror as an excuse!!!!!!

Bush is definitely against filesharing. The FBI has put "intellectual property protection" as its number three priority. They are raiding schools in Arizona.
Even if Bush is not the brightest button in the box, he KNOWS what is going on and approves of it or it would NOT be happening.

And when they take our guns away, we'll no longer be governed, we'll be ruled. Again, I would like to bring up the term Democratic Dictatorship. My wife's in the Navy, I'm prior Navy. She isn't and I didn't join to back up a gov't that takes away rights in the names of freedom. We joined to protect those freedoms. It sickens me to see what is happening today. Georgia is becoming more like the Georgia next to Turkey. Curfews, Patriot acts, etc. I love my country, don't get me wrong, but the things that are happening today are reminescent of what Britain did to the original colonies, before the Revolutionary war.

Captian morgan, a truly diverse people also require freedom

what was that quote by Benjamin Franklin about freedom vs saftey?

"a truly diverse people also require freedom"

Yes they do. As such they should unite, draw up a coherent plan and actually protect it.

Hello, I am new to this site, and I appreciate the intelligent discussions I have found.

I strongly believe that Bush = Kerry, and that Republicans = Democrats.

I believe that both parties are corrupt, since both receive their funding from the capitalists/imperialists/Zionists.

I also believe that Ralph Nader is not a true alternative. Although he is more tolerable than Bush/Kerry, he is still a supporter of the AFL-CIO, which has crippled the political mobilization of the American working class.

I am a supporter of the Socialist Equality Party and its 2004 presidential candidate, Bill Van Auken.

His platform places social rights above property rights, which the capitalists have used to maintain their hegemony over the masses.

To learn more about the Socialist Equality Party and the Van Auken/Lawrence ticket, you can visit their website http://www.wsws.org

marxgrrl

Welcome aboard. We welcome your input and appreciate your kind words.

Fight injustice!
~Code