[Note- this is an editorial that reflects my opinion, and not necessarily that of this site, the other newsteam members, or anyone else in the world.]

I'm gonna admit it...I'm not all knowing, I'm not omniscient. I know a few things, but not everything. This idea that keeps surfacing like a fart in a bathtub, that if you have done nothing wrong, why should you mind government surveillance of you and everyone else, is nonsense, plain and simple.

The logical extension of this assertion is that we should all be able to live in glass houses, "if you have done nothing wrong". There are good and sound reasons for the right of privacy, and for people being able to maintain their own confidentiality of those parts of their lives they wish to keep private.

Now, let's look at this whole idea just a little closer. The Patriot Act was passed without being read by those in Congress voting on it. I have not met any person that has memorized the Patriot Act, and not only knows any and all provisions of this Act, nor, even if they had memorized it, knows all possible implications and utilizations of it. But, as with all other laws, there is the maxim, "ignorance of the law is no excuse", meaning, that EVEN IF YOU DO NOT KNOW SOMETHING IS ILLEGAL, IF YOU DO IT, YOU ARE HELD TO BE GUILTY.

There are many, many federal, state, and local laws across this country. Cities even pass their own rules including municipal codes. Many are antiquated, and serve no useful purpose. I don't believe there is any human living in the United States, that knows fully, every law, municipal code, statute, etc., that exists in every state, county and municipality. But, even though you don't know about them, if you are covered by them, you are expected to abide by them.

It's like you get forced into a weird card game, and have to put up a large sum of money, but no one gives you a complete list of the rules. You start playing, but then, a new rule gets brought out as you move forward in the game, and you have no control over the rules.

But, the most problematic thing about this whole notion, is that the phrase "If you have done nothing wrong, you shouldn't mind", is that it serves as a pressure toward relinquishing basic freedoms. We've seen how, in the 5th District Court in Louisiana, a ruling was made that law enforcement no longer needs a search warrant to search private premises (in contradiction to the fourth amendment), and another court decision that holds that if you are demanded to identify yourself, by law enforcement, that you must comply even if they have no good reason to demand your identification papers.

These two rulings seem to spring from this "if you have done nothing wrong, you shouldn't mind" mindset.

Look, people have a right to be left alone. They should not be searched without warrants, they should not have to "show their papers" just because a man (or woman) with a badge wants to hassle them.

People who champion this "nothing to fear" approach, should be made to live in glass houses, should have to submit to random strip searches and should have to have an open internet connection through which the RIAA, MPAA, BSA, or anyone else could do an audit of its contents. And, since today is tax deadline, surely people with this mindset, shouldn't mind a Level 3 audit of their tax returns for the last three years. They should be happy to have their car searched without notice on a random basis, as well as a search of their homes.

If anyone who holds such an idea reads the above and gets uneasy at any of those suggestions, I would respond...
"If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear."

:)

Everybody is guilty of something.

I've been swamped for the past week with paperwork, mostly for the government. But I have been listening to several news programs, including the 9/11 Commission hearings. Ashcroft ("I did never...") referred to the amazing Patriot Act during his appearance. He said that Congress had passed laws that restricted the government, and gave the impression that if he had the power, pre-9/11, given to him by the Patriot Act, then maybe the USA could have thwarted the attacks.

I think that the summer vacation mentality in Washington (we'll address those problems when the kids go back to school in September) is mainly to blame for the lack of communication between the president, CIA, FBI, Atty General, NSA, etc.

I'm guilty of blinking too much.

What may be "nothing wrong to me", may not be "nothing wrong" to someone else. So if some company wants to sue me for what they percieve to be something, well thats the problem. I love my privacy and hate the notion of having to one day live in a police state on account of all these stupid laws. Let me give you a personal example, last semester I had to perform my pro bono hours at the county courthouse down here where I live. Well the courthouse opens up at 8 AM, but now they have installed all these trinckets and knick knacs that it almost takes a whole hour to get in there. Well, I didnt really mind much, after all I was only there for a few hours a day, and if the people that actually work there feel safer, well so be it. Funny thing was however, that one day after going through the routine inspection that is given, I entered a court room to hear a case. Guy was being charge with aggravated assault, kidnapping, and cocaine trafficking, but you know what, he held the door for me. Thats, right despite the fact that he threw a woman inside his vehicle and proceeded to beat the snot out of her, and there was enough evidence to prove that he did, he was out on the streets. So I ask myself what is the purpose of a patriot act or similar acts like it, when someone of that kind of caliber is allowed to roam the streets? I know the patriot act pertains more to terrorist, so they say, but really, why would I want to give the government that much power to meddle in my business, and spy on me. After all, the politicians are human too, who holds them accountable then?

"If you have done nothing wrong, you shouldn't mind" -- I mind

It was pointed out that their are so many laws that no one knows them all, this is just what the goverment wants, you may not be doing anything now but if we watch long enuff they will drag you into the legal tar pit and you will never be free of the system. Here is a case: Panhandel Regional Task Force, Amarillo Texas. Over thirty people in the Plainview area lost 2 years of their life in jail based on the observing testamony of a bad cop. This group of people have won their appeal and sued and won several millions in damages, and just another point, they were almost all black. The point is you do not have to brake the law for the goverment to get you, they will make it up then destroy your life even if you are not guility of anything.When things do backfire on the goverment, they walk off, are not held accountable and the tax payer gets to payup on the settlement.

Again, if anyone listened to the hearings held by the 9/11 Commission, he/she would have heard discussion about the budget and funding for more agents in the FBI to help our country defend itself against terrorism. Ashcroft never talked about his war on pornography or copyright infringement.
A little over a week ago, with the help of Peer Guardian, I saw connection attempts from the US Dept of Justice when I was visiting this site. I used Whois and traced the ip address... Potomac, MD.
It scared the heck out of me! I wasn't doing anything illegal. Why were they scanning my computer?
On April 6, on this site, an article "The New Repression" was posted about what the Justice Department is doing online.
It referred to this article: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.obscenity06apr06,0,3004361.story?coll=bal-home-headlines

Talking about the Patriot Act, someone told me that if I had done nothing wrong, then why should I worry about it?

I told her, that I support my right to a fair right trial, even though I don't plan on ever needing it. There's so much wrong with what she said. I believe my reply was a perfect one and showed that statement to be the gross logical fallacy that it is. That's #1

The #2 obvious fallacy is this: I haven't done anything wrong...and I DO care. Gonna cut out that part of my brain that cares to make yourselves right?


I don't like knowing that when I've been pulled over for speeding the cop does a background check on me. This is a much less severe case of our topic. I don't like it, but I understand that he needs to do it. Nothing comes up on my bg check, but it doesn't mean I want people looking through it. In this case it is acceptable.

But background checks become obsolete when your every move is monitored in real time. And that is a serious problem.

The thing to be afraid of are the accusations and follow-throughs by any type of "authority". I've done nothing wrong, yet I'm afraid of the thing. Why? Because I know that different types of "authority" like to abuse their power. We've also all seen the misinterpretations of other documents and laws...

Lachatte, you were probably scanned because you use words like pornography and copyright infringement in your posts...oops! Crap, now I'm gonna get scanned, too!

I agree with leflaw...everybody is guilty of something. You may not realize it, but you are. You maybe you DO realize it, but refuse to acknowledge it or you just rationalize it away.

Ever drive over the speed limit...even just a little bit? Fail make a complete stop at a stop sign or run through a stoplight just as it's turning red? Ever toss some trash at a can and miss, then fail to pick it up. Ever walk out of a store and realize you still have the pen they gave you to sign the credit card slip...that's stealing! You may not have meant to do it, but you did! GUILTY!!!

Ah, that's just small stuff that nobody ever enforces.

In this great article, Code mentions antiquated laws that are still on the books. Did you know that most states, especially the more conservative ones, there are laws that regulate what you can and can't do during sexual relations? I wonder if these "If you've done nothing wrong..." folks would be willing to allow the cops to observe while they make love to their spouse, lover, etc. Hey, you believe you are doing nothing wrong, so it shouldn't be a problem, right? Chances are, if you live in a fairly conservative state, you are breaking the law unless the only type of sex you have is missionary (ie: man on top--get it over with quick)...even if that person is your legal spouse! I know for a fact that I regularly break quite a few of these antiquated laws in my own state with my wife.

"Bah!", you say? "No one ever bothers to enforce those antiquated laws in today's modern society!" That may be true in most cases, but when a self-righteous zealot suddenly becomes a judge--look out.

A couple of years ago a judge had a couple in his court over a minor infraction. During the course of the appropriately short case, the judge became aware that they were an unmarried couple living at the same address. Well, it just so happens that it was illegal in that state for unmarried persons of the opposite sex to live together. The judge gave them 3 options:

1 - One of them must move out
2 - Get married within 48 hours
3 - Go to jail

In this case, the man was planning on popping the question some time in the next few months anyway, so they chose to get married. Obviously it wasn't under the circumstances that they would have chosen.

This law does not fit in our modern society and should have been removed long ago. This is just one example of how power can easily be abused.

The people who shout "If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to fear!" don't seem to realize two very important things:

1 - In order to truly be guilty of nothing, you would have to be a highly intelligent saint

2 - The only way you could have nothing to fear is if all government and law enforcement personnel were just as guilt free and the aforementioned saint.

Anyway, rant over.

If you are doing nothing, you are loitering.
If you are doing anything, it might look suspicious.
If you are doing your best, you're probably hiding something.
If you are getting recognition, you are a potential threat to society.

Great editorial piece CodeWarrior. I can only add these quotes as additional food for thought:

"When the government fears the people you have Liberty. When the people fear the government you have Tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson

"We the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts--not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution" - Abraham Lincoln

hbkfan, thanks for the quotes. According to "Honest Abe," we've got some serious butt kicking to do in Congress and the Courts. They've been perverting the Constitution for years.

A person who states that why should they worry if they haven't done anything wrong, might think differently if their name appears on a watch list. A gentleman in my city made the news because he couldn't get on a plane. They had to get permission from the Justice Department so he could fly. After this happened a couple times (his name always ended back on the list) he decided the hastle wasn't worth it and now won't fly anywhere. He didn't do anything wrong, only happens to have the wrong name.

In Alabama we have a bunch of crazy, pointless laws. Draft beer is illegal. Supposedly if you hug or dance with a girl under the age of 18 it is considered statutory rape. (I'm not 100% sure on that one, but that is what a friend told me)

There is a need to be able to use intrusive methods when there is a threat to someone’s life IMOH. (i.e. Terrorist attacks.) The trade off to this should be that any corollary evidence found should not usable in court. For example, unlimited use of wire taps, but unless the evidence gathered is relevant to preventing a loss of human life, then the evidence cannot be collected/stored/shared.

The reason for not sharing of Intel after 1996 was to ensure that we could prosecute the terrorists in future cases. Of course, this probably meant that the terrorists must succeed in their act of violence before prosecution.

the problem with "if you've done nothing wrong.." is that you'd have to spend the next 19 years reading laws 24/7 to even find out if you've done something "wrong".

Code, thanks for starting the day with your insightful opinions about the Patriot Act. You were noticeably absent from the discussion.

A phrase comes to mind "I Hate Big Brother". This was written in a journal by the fearful character Wilson, while sitting in a nook out of view of his telescreen in the novel 1984. Big Brother, incase you have never read the novel or heard any of the millions of reference made to him, is totalitarian government figurehead in the novel. Wilson had a reason to fear Big Brother. The government of his country, Oceania, did not take kindly to dissentful thinking. One whose thoughts were contrary to official government issued doctrine were obscene. Written in the 40's, Orwell composed this magnificent work of fiction as a warning.

The question now asked is, do we listen to the warnings strewn throughout history? Perhaps not.

Our forefathers fought and won our revolution, they went through what we currently are going through. Over taxation, unlawful searches, invasions of privacy, no representation (well, now we have 'representation', but how many of you truely feel represented by your elected offcials? If the people were represented, can someone please tell me how the DMCA was passed?). They lived through this stuff, and based on the lessons learned, they authored a constitution with a bill of rights declaring certain things as unobstructable throughout the lifespan of our government.

Now those rights are being eroded. Originally it was illegal for the government to deny the rights in the consitution, but they passed laws to make it legal. Is this acceptable? NO! Is there any way we can trust the government to use it's power only to investigate terrorism? GOD NO! Why? Well...

"Within six months of passing the PATRIOT Act, the Justice Department was conducting seminars on how to stretch the new wiretapping provisions to extend them beyond terror cases," said Dan Dodson, a spokesman for the National Association of Criminal Defense Attorneys. "They say they want the PATRIOT Act to fight terrorism. Then, within six months, they are teaching their people how to use it on ordinary citizens." (reported by David Caruso, Associated Press)

If a part of the population is disgruntled and wants change from the government, expresses their want for change, marches and demonstrates for change; and the government does not want to change, could this sort of actvity seem dangerous to those in power? Certainly. Would they use these new PATRIOT powers to stiffle dissent? They already have!

"WASHINGTON, Nov. 22 — The Federal Bureau of Investigation has collected extensive information on the tactics, training and organization of antiwar demonstrators and has advised local law enforcement officials to report any suspicious activity at protests to its counterterrorism squads, according to interviews and a confidential bureau memorandum.

The memorandum, which the bureau sent to local law enforcement agencies last month in advance of antiwar demonstrations in Washington and San Francisco, detailed how protesters have sometimes used "training camps" to rehearse for demonstrations, the Internet to raise money and gas masks to defend against tear gas. The memorandum analyzed lawful activities like recruiting demonstrators." (reported by Eric Lichtblau, New York Times)

So yeah, what if you don't do anything wrong? I do not break the law, but I will tell you I am disgusted at the government and our system in it's current manifestation. I partcipate in protests and I organize locally with other activists. We are trying to draw attention to our cause, because we believe we're fighting the good fight. But because we do not agree with our government, we are suspected terrorists? ABSURD!

So it is not a matter of "if you have done nothing wrong, you shouldn't mind", it's a matter of "If you do what we tell you, if you think like we tell you, if you believe what we tell you, and if you keep your opinion to yourself--you shouldn't mind".

It's been little over 2 years since PATRIOT was signed into legislation. In this time the government has used the act on ordinary citizens, law abiding and law breaking alike. TWO YEARS AFTER! What are we going to be like as a society in decades? The law, if you read it, is designed to be used on our soil...it's designed to be used against our neighbors. There's proof, this is fact, you can not turn your head and pretend it didn't happen. We have laws to bring criminals to justice, and we also HAD the phrase, innocent until proven guilty. Now we throw that out, and everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Anyone who is NOT a patriot because of the disillusion our society has presented us, and anyone who IS the greatest of patriots who wants better for this country are the targets of the PATRIOT Act; What Irony!

Search Warrents are now obsolete. With the unlimited dentention provisions, perhaps we will no longer need trials. Will we resemble barbaric South American governments who execute criminals and dissents, leaving nothing but memories of los desaparecidos? Far fetched, but we're beginning to walk down that path.

Our forefathers KNEW what would happen with these powers in the hands of the powerful. They lived it, they fought against it, they changed it and ya know what, they were right. Thomas Jefferson must be turning in his grave.

The quotes I put in up there are from well known mainstream outlets. Two of the biggest sources of mainstream news in the world. It's reported, swept under the rug, and forgotten. These things are important to remember! We need to remind ourselves that the casualties of this war on terror are not only physical, they're ideological. The ideology we are told throughout school, throughout history class. It's dying. We are not the United States we remember pledging allegance to.

So I sit here fearfully, writing to all of you that I Hate Big Brother, knowing that me and my friends may be the next targets.

negatyve- great post!

LaChatte- just one of those days I enjoyed reading more than writing I guess

thanks code, always a pleasure to comment on what you have to say

"If you have done nothing wrong, you shouldn't mind"

Until I plant drugs in your car or house/property and then I call the cops on you.