CREATE LIKE IT'S 1790

Lawrence Lessig
Professor of Law at Stanford Law School
http://www.lessig.org/blog
The Black and White about Grey Tuesday

The Grey Album is a remix of Jay-Z’s Black Album and the Beatles’ White Album by DJ Danger Mouse. It is a remix without permission. In our legal system, permission is required to remix others’ art (except if the work is in the public domain, and of course, nothing enters the public domain anymore). The Grey Album is therefore illegal art.

Today is Grey Tuesday — a day set by many to protest the war waged on the Grey Album. Sites across the net are posting the Grey Album. Go here to see scads of sites engaging in this act of disobedience. Lawyers representing EMI have already started warning the sites about the legal liability they face.

Under American law, you don’t need permission to make a cover album. That freedom has been assured since 1909 when Congress granted creators a compulsory right to remake music, so long as a small fee was paid. The record companies have fought hard to defend that compulsory right. As a 1967 Congressional report put it:
The record producers argued vigorously that the compulsory license system must be retained. They asserted that the record industry is a half-billion-dollar business of great economic importance in the United States and throughout the world; records today are the principal means of disseminating music, and this creates special problems, since performers need unhampered access to musical material on nondiscriminatory terms. Historically, the record producers pointed out, there were no recording rights before 1909 and the 1909 statute adopted the compulsory license as a deliberate anti-monopoly condition on the grant of these rights. They argue that the result has been an outpouring of recorded music, with the public being given lower prices, improved quality, and a greater choice.Copyright Law Revision, Committee on the Judiciary, 90th Cong. 1st, Sess., Rep. No. 83 66 (March 8, 1967) (emphasis added).

But the cover right does not cover a remix. So DJ Danger Mouse must, under the law, ask permission before he can practice his art.

Some artists think this is fair. Some don’t like the idea of their work used without permission. What if Disney remixed DJ Danger Mouse into a re-release of Mickey-jailed-since-1928-Mouse, without asking or paying first?

And indeed, it is just this defense that the record companies offer first: we’re just enforcing the wish of the copyright owners. This is not, they say, a record company cartel. This is about the rights of artists.

But that defense would be more credible if the record companies were to allow artists the choice to set their content free for remix at least. We’ve been working with Gilberto Gil to push a sampling license, under which artists could set their music free for dangerous mice and others to remix. But we’ve yet to find a record company that will allow their artists this freedom. Indeed, the legal department at Vivendi purported to ban us from "approaching" "their" artists.

Should the law give DJ Danger Mouse the right to remix without permission?

I think so, though I understand how others find the matter a bit more grey.

Should the law give DJ Danger Mouse a compulsory right to remix? That is, the right, conditioned upon his paying a small fee per sale?

Again, I think so, and again, you might find this a bit less grey.

But should the record companies give artists the right to choose to free their content so that artists like DJ Danger Mouse could remix without seeking permission first?

There is nothing grey about that question. It is absolutely black and white. Artists should at least have the right to free their content to mash or remix. And record companies absolutely should not stand in the way of at least that.

After doing so much to destroy their reputation in the eyes of most consumers and artists, signaling at least this would be a useful first step towards showing that the record companies care about "their" artists first.

What the hell happened to "Works Cited"?

Grey Album..
from downhill.org
Here's the letter they got from EMI mouthpieces...
http://downhillbattle.org/grey/emi_cd_letter. html

Downhill responded...
"Downhill Battle’s response to EMI


Mr. Jensen and EMI:

We have received your February 23 email concerning our plans to make the Grey Album available on our website.

Despite your letter, Downhill Battle will be posting the Grey Album on our website tomorrow. Your efforts to suppress this music stifle creativity and harm the public interest; we will not be intimidated into backing down. Downhill Battle has a fair-use right to post this music under current copyright law and the public has a fair-use right to hear it. Opposing EMI’s censorship campaign is precisely the purpose of Tuesday’s protest and we won’t waver from that goal.

The current legal environment allows the five major record labels to dictate to musicians what kind of music they may and may not create and allows them to prevent the public from hearing music that does not fall within their rules. For people to make an informed decision about whether the major record labels and existing copyright law serve the interests of musicians and the public, they need to be able to hear the music that is being suppressed. The Grey Tuesday protest is about ensuring that this music is widely available so that the public can make informed decisions. Copyright was created by Congress to “promote the progress of science and the useful arts.” Your actions violate that purpose. Any lawsuit against us will bring more attention to both the protest and the need for serious copyright reform, and we expect to win any case on fair-use grounds.

Our posting of the Grey Album on Downhill Battle is a political act with no commercial interest and fits well within fair use rights. Lawyers have advised us that we can ignore your demands number 2, 3, and 4 that are listed at the bottom of your letter. EMI has no legal right to make these demands and we will not comply with them. Furthermore, if EMI attempts to disrupt our protest by sending takedown letters to participating websites, ISPs of participating websites, or any upstream ISPs, we will file a counter-suit against you. We consider any attempts to stifle this protest to be an abuse under section 512F of the DMCA.

Sincerely,

Nicholas Reville
Holmes Wilson
Co-Founders
Downhill Battle (downhillbattle.org)"

I just have to wonder about the "sampling phenomenon" as well as things like remaking all these old television shows like I Spy, Starsky and Hutch..etc...what is happening with creativity...there are lots of fresh ideas out here..why rehash the past and just stick a voice track on top of it. I've listened to tracks from the Grey Album at illegal-art...it's horrible...he RUINS "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"....
I couldn't stand more than 10 seconds of any of the songs on the Grey Album.

I like this. I'm burning 5 cds of it now and I will be putting them randomly around my school with the message

"It's Grey Tuesday. Listen to and share the Grey Album.
Take, listen, and enjoy your right to music.
For more information:
http://www.downhillbattle.org/"

er make that link
http://www.greytuesday.org/
Would probably be more to the point.

but if the artists had the say then the record labels wouldn't have the control they want. The best way to advertise something is to ban it or protest it. I've seen many movies become block busters because someone made a big stink about it.

Code you should post the actual cease and disist order EMI sent. not only do they demand that downhill battle (and others) stop offering the remix, they also demand that they keep logs and report all those who download it.

Should I really get it? I don't know whether or not to change my mind. I am against downloading it because it uses The Beatles' music from White Album without permission. But more importantly, I am against downloading it because if we all do, then EMI may never let it be sold. I want a physical copy that I buy from a store, and everyone downloading it won't make my fight any easier.

compmore...I didn't because of the legal warning at the end...
but others can find the link on downhillbattle.org
or greytuesday.org

Code, how do I make text in my article bold when submitting it? I need to know for when I submit it, or I'll be lost in my own words and get the section screwed up.

Am I stupid? It's right there!

Now the question is, if the artists that created the work have a black-and-white right "right to free their content to mash or remix", what happens when said artists die? Who gets that "right" then? The obvious answer is the heirs to said artists estate. But my question points out the flaws in our copyright system. Nothing enters public domain anymore. Quite frankly, I believe a DEAD artist should NOT have his heirs controlling his work. Our copyright law should reflect that at death, all copyrights cease to exist.

Undeath, protesting these media giants has to start somewhere and if something like this gets attention it is a good place to start.

undeath...if you capitalize what you want in bold...I will bold it for you and re-fix it to uncapitals...that is if i edit it..

Actually I believe the system in place now not only passes that right of protection on to the estate, or on to the purchaser of the copyright, but it also resets the time span of protection. So another 70 year plus the life is added on. Which is funny because that means there is no way for the public domain to be entered. Considering a corporation is a legal entity, and it will probably not die that makes it indefinite. Nothing will ever reach public domain again.

I just think that if people want the hard copy of the original release instead of inferior mp3 files, then we should just push to make them let it be released.

It's happened in the past for unreleased music and reissues. If we just petition and work with them, they may allow it.

seems like the bandwidth limit is having more impact than EMI...
860design.com
http://www.ai-em.net/
horklog has a hilarious response they link to at mathcaddy...
http://www.mathcaddy.com/archives/2004_02_22_archives.html#107758244826785486
http://www.mathcaddy.com/pope%20small.jpg

overall though...most of the sites are actually doing what they said they would...

..it's horrible...he RUINS "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"....
I couldn't stand more than 10 seconds of any of the songs on the Grey Album.

Yeah Code, agreed totally.... so I say, let them run amok with the remixing, after they get through with them, they're definitely NOT the same songs

People have been protesting the lockdown of beatles albums for a long time. If it were that simple it wouldn't be an issue anymore.

My problem with the situation is the fact that they have deemed it illegal. I think if someone creates something they should be allowed to share it. It is defently not the same song. In fact I would be surprised if more than 10% of the song were actually from the white album. I protest it simply because they said I CANT listen to it. To hell with them.

The tracks I've listened to, almost drown out the underlying sampled material...it really is like taking a book....and rewriting the whole thing...but leaving a few paragraphs here and there that you don't give credit for to the original writer...more like plagiarism...but not even that far...look, from my listening...the only way the Grey Album would have been downloaded this much...is by making it forbidden fruit, so in that respect, EMI has given the Grey Album a lot of promotion by objecting so much.

and by the by...i only listened to about 10 seconds and immediately deleted the files...

and i was on a proxy at the time ...but cannot recall which one

I believe there are ways to track the proxies back to the original, if I'm not mistaken. Of course I'm really unsure about proxies. Don't know how to use them, don't know about the tracking systems.

purfus,
I still believe that this could be released if it's fought in a different way. I say this because it is much different from unreleased albums and songs.

All I know is that it will inevitably be released...

or maybe I dreamed I listen to it..you know us old folks and our bad memories ..yeah, that's it...I dreamed I listened to some cuts....

isn't it interesting that the remaining beatles and the estates are quiet about all this. just as they are quiet about the whole download thing

the more I think about it..ya know..it WAS just a big dream about downloading tracks from the Grey Album..just a dream that seemed so real it confused me,...but, just a dream...never really listened to them...so never mind

I'm not even into rap, but I like the idea of The Grey Album. I like how it cracks a musical color barrier. It does make me want to hear The White Album.

I like track 3, Encore. "Oh, yeah!"

Ah, stealth distribution, purfus you read my mind.

People the mall might accidentally find "lost" Grey Albums today.

Now, I listened to it, and I still don't like rap. I wish Danger Mouse had picked better Beatles tracks than "The White Album". Doesn't mean that other people wouldn't like it. Maybe if there's enough demand, EMI will come to a compromise that will benefit everyone (well, not consumers of couse, but...).

Now if someone would just do a dance remix of "Elanore Rigby", there's an idea!

duh, people IN the mall I mean

I'd rather all these sites hosted Shmoo of Electric Gypsy...
shout out to Mike!

I didn't use any protection. I could care if they want to try to sue me for downloading it. As far as I'm concerned they do not own it. It is hard to commit an act of when hiding one's face. I seriously doubt that EMI will bother with downloaders. It looks to me like they will have a hard enough time stopping the uploaders. However, if I were told to delete the files I would give a similar response to what downhillbattle gave.

Codewarrior, your age is showing clearly.
You have the right to your opinion, but we don't really need to hear your opinion repeated over and over like a stuck record.(or a complaining little whining bitch)One post about how YOU don't like the album would have sufficed

HAHA, well there.....

Get ready for a rebutle....

I downloaded it last week when I first heard about it. I declare it was a fair use, for educational and critiquing purposes and all that. It's worth a listen.

I support downhillbattle's provocative guerilla action.

chadt,

I enjoyed that statement as well as I would enjoy 4 more years of Bush. And people who know me should be laughing and saying, "I know what he's talking about".

What does age have to do with anything? Would you say that someone younger who hates older music typical? Retard. I am about 20 years old, and I listen to everything from Buddy Holly (dates back to 1949) to Nickelback's latest single release (late 2003, early 2004). Everything in between includes every type of music.

I grew up on rap. From 89 to 93, I could name every rapper and every song. I grew out of that (not completely), and now I'm mainly listening to music from the 50s to the 70s.

If I was to say I don't like something and you didn't know my age, would you say that my age is showing? Maybe. You're just that ignorant. If I was to say I don't like a certain thing from before I was born, would you say that is because of my age? Probably, but that's because you are ignorant.

I'll say this right now:
If you base something on age, you are as annoying as a kid walking up to someone and poking them repeatedly in the forehead. I would push that kid away, and that is what would be done to you if you were to use age as some kind of explanation.

I am a HUGE fan of rap, and I am not a fan of Jay-Z's music. If I heard it, I probably wouldn't like it either. However, I am a HUGE Beatles fan, and I would still probably hate it.

What really gets me is that you criticize someone's posts, yet that post right there is the first I can remember seeing from you. Great introduction to me. You are now on my shit list.

Go listen to some Britney Spears.

MISTAKE:
Would you say that someone younger who hates older music IS typical?

undeath, you have way to much free time.
I am mostly a fan of classic rock(zeppelin, alman bros, etc) as well as Jam Bands(phish, widespread panic, etc)
I was just making an obsevation of how I've seen a lot of post saying"Listened to the first 10 scs, blah, blah"
I actually don't even like the grey album either, but I can appreciate the skill it takes to mix, matching beats, etc. I do know some people that do like the beats and the feeling of the grey album. I gave them the same argument you are attacking me with.
Plus the age thing I was talking about was when he said he bought the White Album when "It came out", I'm sure you are smart enough to do that math

chadt

lighten up my friend, Code was just having a little fun..we do like to have fun here once in awhile.

And age has nothing to do with music. We (my husband and I, in our fifties ) run a mobile dj company and listen to ALL manner of music styles. I admit to liking some hip hop, rock, etc..just depends..but Dj mouse did murder the Beatles music, in our estimation.
~~pepe~~

Thank you for your kind comments chadt
Always know that you appreciate hearing my thoughts

lololololol

I don't think Chadt likes our views much makes me so sad!

BTW "chadt" I am 51 and proud of it...no math need be done!
and btw..its Allman Brothers, leader was Greg Allman..
guess I like them more...I know how to spell their NAME!

What do you mean by that? I have too much free time? What I do all day is my work. It is basically volunteer work. I volunteer my time to this site. I volunteer my time to my personal work, which will pay off later. Is that what you mean by free time? Or is it because I actually responded to your comment?

Whatever your reason may be, I'm sure it makes sense to YOU...

And to me, the first 10 seconds does a lot. The first few pages of a book is what makes me want to read more if it's good.

Now if you'll escuse me, I have work to do. I'm not even halfway through my article...

EXCUSE, not ESCUSE

Speaking of age. How old would one guess a group of people is when they resort to name calling and do nothing more than get upset about the fact that someone else's opinion differes from their own. Chadt, you may be new here, you may not be, but if theres one thing you should get used to if your going to continue to read and post (for your own sanity) is code posting long and repeatedly his point of view until he is satified his thoughts have been expressed. (I assume code to be male because I have called code a him before and never recieved a deniel) Anyway, if I didn't know better I would guess I was in a room full of over-educated high school kids. Don't flame me over stereotypes, I am completely aware of the existance of mature young people. I am also aware of the fact that the general population is usually better represented by things that would be considered stereo typical, go figure, but its true. I am also aware of ignorant older individuals. In fact, just about any type of person can act any way they want. But typically most kids are less mature and most adults are more, or at least act it. Age is not an issue and it would be better for the "mature" people to not persue the issue at all.

On that note, lets get back on topic and stop flaming each other....

Undeath, I dont know if I'm on your shit list yet, but why dont you get out your pen. I've read a lot of your posts and considering you like bush I'm sure our paths have crossed at least once. However, write this down, I think you have surpassed the point of telling someone what you think about their opinion and have reached the stage of unproductive argument. In bush language. Get the fuck over it. In my language, life is short, too short....

From now on lets try and show our level of maturity and not our age.....

I am of an age where I may be attacked for simply being of that age. Oh wait that is every age, so really I didn't say anything specific. Well I hate the RIAA, and that obviously include EMI. So anything I can do to piss off EMI will make me smile. Thats all there is to it. This DJ kangaroo or whatever is really not that impressive. Neither is his/her work. However, he/she did do the work and to have some big record company come out and say he cant do a mix with songs that are, what, 30 years old.... is just obsured. I like the idea of a 7 year copyright protection. After that it is fair game. That was how it started. In this age it would not be hard for a firm to profit very well in 7 years. Nor would it be hard for them to find new talent to exploit, oh I mean sign on, and create something new. But it is much easier to make a infinite copyright protection and simply sell people the same things in different formats for their entire lives.

Anyway, my opinion is obvious. Screw those jerks, they don't deserve the Beatles in the first place. They have proven this by their suppressive treatment of the Beatle's archives.

On that, I don't listen to enough music to be impressed by it in ten seconds, nor do I appreciate it enough to get curious about what the other 4 minutes hold. Well anyway, it is certainly out there now. If you don't like it, any of you, well than don't listen to it. I'm not really a big fan either but I am willing to stick it to EMI in any way posible.

Wow, there's finally an attack on me.

1. I am not a fan of Bush. Well, not the President, anyway...

2. You are not on my shit list.

3. "I think you have surpassed the point of telling someone what you think about their opinion and have reached the stage of unproductive argument."

What does this mean, exactly? Compliment? No compliment? I'm confused as to what you mean by this.

In all deference, let's remember that the issue is not whether or not you like it, but whether someone does or does not have the freedom to do it and, if approval must be sought, why is it not the artist, but the record label that makes the decision?

Not to mention that the White Album was pre-1972, so there IS NO sound recording copyright available for it.

Folks...lol...Micro$oft says I need 49 critical updates..lolol.....I'm not kidding ...

Hold your breath for me...the box may never come back after reboot....lolololol

And purfus..yes I definitely am male

and I agree that we all need to be civil...
I personally got my online education in flame wars on AOL when AOL was young...I used to be a beta testor for AOL...and had all the HaCkEr tools (i.e. Haxor and all the rest) and used to regularly knock people offline when they got to be jerks...

But flaming provides heat with little light and does little good for anyone....

With that said...on to PRODUCTIVE and respectful dialogue and colloquy.

compmore: You said that EMI wants all who download it to be reported. This is part of one of the sections mentioned in the letter:

"Lawyers have advised us that we can ignore your demands number 2, 3, and 4 that are listed at the bottom of your letter. EMI has no legal right to make these demands and we will not comply with them."

The RIAA is jumping up and down for joy right now folks. All these sites hosting the Grey Album have fallen into a trap and are promoting an RIAA artist, and even WORSE have opened themselves up to being shut down and thus having their pro-freedom voices shut up by the industry.

Fat Tuesday was a good intentioned, but very bad idea folks.

Shmoo, of Electric Gypsy
Support Local and Independent Music!

Sorry, Grey Tuesday (on Fat Tuesday)

laissez les bon temps rollei...

undeath...looking forward to your article!

bold type

Code, I contacted Nader with the most intelligent letter I've ever written, and I feel he may respond with a great answer. I asked him to visit the site if he feels so inclined to, and also to perhaps write something for this site.

I hope he responds real soon, because it's just that one copyright reform and intellectual property section that needs his response. I might send it in later when I finish and mention that I'm waiting. Then when it's sent to me, I'll post a comment.

I am curious to see Nader's take on our issues. Good work undeath, let's hope his camp responds quickly. Kerry's people don't seem to give a sh*t about us and the feeling is becoming mutual.

I know it would be pointless, but some of our folk need to see what response we can get from the Bush people.

Shmoo

I think permission to remix should be obtained, but directly from the artist. If I was an artist and someone just took my recordings and changed them, or rapped over them, I'd have some serious problems with it.

However, as a political statement, Grey Tuesday means more. Anything that brings more attention to the ridiculousness of the industry...

That's great !

I'll be looking forward to it.

That's just another reason for us to try to keep our comments on a profession level. I'll work on mine .

And, undeath, dude...thanks for all the hard work you do here.
I appreciate it. I appreciate everyone who is here, day after day,
following the news, boycotting,and fighting the fight.

You guys ROCK!

I agree with your comments too Shmoo...no love lost between me and the Skull and Bones-meister Kerry .
~CW

As a bonus for patient Nader fans, I will give you some information I just came across that may give you a sharp idea on his stance:

Remember the FTAA? It extends copyright terms to 120 years instead of that 70, and 95 for work-for-hire products. Now I know why we were against it...

Well, Ralph Nader formed CPTech (Consumer Project on Technology) in 1995, and here's a quote from them at an FTAA meeting:

"The chapter on intellectual property should be eliminated altogether. Every significant economy is already subject to the WTO TRIPS Agreement, and it is not appropriate to require that countries adhere to strict TRIPS-Plus rules on intellectual property, even before they have implemented the TRIPS agreement, or when high levels of IP protection are inconsistent with social or economic development objectives. The draft FTAA would require members to abide by dozens of IP treaties that are now voluntary and not required by the WTO, including, in some proposals, treaties that have yet to be written. By placing non-WTO IP treaties in the FTAA, the ability of countries to opt-out of treaties is eliminated, and the provisions are subject to new dispute resolution provisions that will impose new costs on even the poorest members of the FTAA. Also, many of the new FTAA IP obligations go far beyond anything that currently exists in any multilateral IP agreement."

I've been thinking about and The 3rd demand (about giving up downloaders identities) probably doesnt mean that at all. It was sent yesterday to downhillbattle.org, so i think it means more all the sites downhillbattle.org sent the album to for them to host it. The demand from th C&D letter follows, in case someone hasn't already read it.

3. provide Capitol with an accounting of all units of The Grey Album that have been distributed via your website, either physically or digitally, and of all instances of public performance of The Grey Album rendered via your website; and

For the rest:
http://www.cptech.org/ip/ftaa/cptech01282004.doc

I really like Nader, and he really admires Kucinich for standing up against corporate takeover and whatnot...

An interesting disclaimer noted at
www.sleep-dream-die.com
"ATTENTION: By downloading this album I acknowledge that I own both the Beatles White Album AND Jay-Z's Black Album and that the keeper of this website, Robert Rickner, cannot be held liable for your actions if you do not own copies of both of these albums before you begin downloading. You may only exercise your fair use rights as owner of original copies of the albums."

I participated today...within 5 hours (ended up posting the album at 4am after setting aside my doubts about legal prosecution) my 2gb a day bandwidth limit was maxed out. lol It's as if people had never heard of p2p before.

Shmoo,

I looked at the Bush stuff, and it doesn't look very good. He's on my list of candidates in this article since I'm fair to everyone... even Kerry.

Got some great stuff, and if you don't like reading everything in the articles, be prepared to skip ahead to your favorite candidates.

Haha... Jay-Z already gave permission by putting out an album specifically for use of his a capella tracks for remixing purposes. That's why they aren't going after DJ Danger Mouse.

Have any sites besides downhillbattle.org recieved C&D letters?

I don't particularly care for the interpretations in the Grey Album... but I'm sharing it!

Wouldn't posting in a sign of protest constitute fair use itself?

1) The Grey Album makes limited use of samples, the work in it's entirety is not used.

2) Although The Grey Album was used in a creative work (which may be frowned upon by courts), the posting of The Grey Album is done so to critque and comment on the actions taken by EMI.

3) The Grey Album poses no threat to the market value of The White Album

4) The Grey Album is already available widely over the internet (although this hasn't been applied to fair use law, reference the case against DVD Jon & DeCSS could be considered similar circumstances)

I have recieved C&D letters, 2 infact.

Negatyve...do you know if your ISP got a C&D and/or takedown notice?

Not to my knowledge, I talked to my ISP when my bandwidth limit reached, because I was unable to access my ftp server, and I asked them if they had recieved notice to disable my site, and they said no, it had just reached peak bandwidth for the day.

I suppose I will find out for sure when i check my files at 12am when my account is reactivated

I enjoyed that statement as well as I would enjoy 4 more years of Bush. And people who know me should be laughing and saying, "I know what he's talking about".

This is what lead me to believe you are a bush supporter. I apologize for accusing you of such an attrosity if it is not true


What does this mean, exactly? Compliment? No compliment? I'm confused as to what you mean by this.

It means that just what it says... The discussion had turned into an unproductive argument. It was intended to not compliment or discredit you, it was meant to point out what I saw happening to the topic. However, it seems we are now back on topic. That's a good thing.

I must say that today, after listening to the album, I was humming beatles tunes in my head, not captain kangaroo with a personal computer and mix set. So you are correct indie, there is no such thing as bad publicity. But I still think the stand was a good one to take. Besides, think of how many people will log onto the P2P's and try to find the unavailable bealtes tune. There will also be those that decide they do really hate the RIAA and get more involved.

I still stick with my original opinion that this thing is not more than 10% white album.

I love the idea of contacting Nader, koodos undeath. Nader hates the big corps. At least he used to. His book on, oh I don't recall which auto manufacturer it was, but one of them. He wrote about underhanded thing they did, and had some real dirt on them. They threatened him, bugged his home, invaded his privacy. He sued their pants off for it. As I remember it that was what made a name for Nader. It would be fitting that he would want to join a battle against other abusive firms.

I voted for him in the last run, mostly cuz I wanted the green partty to be officially recognized as a partty. But I certainly liked his ideals. They guy has reason to his rhyme, and better than that he has a rhyme.

Bush (only capitalized because it is the begining of the sentence) on the other hand, could give a shit about any consumer not in the market for an off-shore oil rig. While I agree we should not ignore a candidate, I sincerely doubt bush would do anything but make things worse for consumers. Even if he said otherwise. The guy can't order meal at a resturant without lying about what he wants.

I am going to see Nader speak when he's close to here. I am hoping I'll get to talk with him even though it's campaign season. I'm also hoping that he gets the 10,000 signatures in 22 states to get on the ballot. Since he's Independent, that means trouble. Maybe he'll change back to the Green Party soon since they already are on the ballot.

negatyve: Did your letters include the 1,2,3, and 4 at the end that downhill battle threatened woitha countersuit about?

I prey for ya negatyve.

Believe me folks, I am all for the statement you are trying to make hosting this Grey Album and all... but is it worth risking the voice your sites provide? I still believe it was all an RIAA trap to shut you down with DMCA subpeonas. I am afraid those sites who took the bait are in for some deep sh*t and we are gonna loose a lot of our "voice" on the web as a consequence.

Maybe I am wrong about all this and I certainly hope so.

Shmoo, of Electric Gypsy
(check out our new CD for $3 at homemademusic.com and as always,
Support Local and Independent Music!)

Yes, It is the same exact letter. I'm not sure however many got this letter, however I know quite a few more besides downhillbattle and myself did. (I myself recieved 2 copies).

It's interesting to point out that I recieved the letter and my email address was the only one available on the website at the time, and my partner did not recieve a letter and his email address is bound to the domain (available in a whois lookup). I'm also pretty certain that they didn't contact my web space provider, because I would have expected to recieve a cancelation of service notice for violating their terms of service. The note is a clear intimidation tactic, and serves no legal purpose as they were sent out hours before the protest began with no evidence of wrong doing besides a list of people who claimed they would post the album.

I am not worried. We are doing this in solidarity, and in solidarity we will combat legal action. However, I doubt they will make the mistake of filing suit with hundreds of people and face a class action countersuit.

120 years for a copyright. They might as well bend you over and F you in the A, then not kiss you after that!

These FTAA guys are out of control...

Intellectual property law is NOTHING compared to what the FTAA has done to destroy already poverty stricken third world communities. The FTAA promotes child labor, exploitation of indiginious lands by foreign corporations, and expands corporate right to sue governments who don't abide by FTAA rules.

The purpose of the FTAA is pretty clear, to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

For more info on the FTAA check out Global Exchange's FAQ on the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) at:

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/ftaa/faq.html

are you associated with negativeland, one of Cobain's favorite groups?
__________________________________________________

In 1988, Negativland set off a media feeding frenzy with a simple press release suggesting a link between the famous Brom ax murders (which had just taken place in Minnesota) and "Christianity is Stupid," a song from their album Escape From Noise. There wasn't even a remote link, of course, but all levels of the news media went nuts over the "story". Negativland were smart enough to set their tape and sampling machines a runnin' in order to log the hours and hours of media cannibalism that followed. They used this material on their next album, Helter Stupid, possibly the best statement ever made on the sensationalization of news at the expense of true journalism.

In 1991, they released a two song single, titled simply U2, and were promptly sued by Island Records (U2's label), SST Records (their own label) and almost sued by Casey Kasem. Yes, that's right, Casey Kasem. The tracks on U2 (two edits of "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For") sound nothing like any of U2's songs but in fact lampoon that band's pretentious nature by editing U2 radio quotes together with foul-mouthed Kasem outtakes from his American Top 40 radio show. As you may have guessed, the result is fucking hilarious.

Just this past year, CD manufacturers were turning away projects from artists who used "uncleared" samples. The plants were afraid of being sued by the Recording Industry Association of America. Media appropriation bands like Negativland suddenly couldn't get their CDs made, so they went head to head against the RIAA. When the smoke cleared, the RIAA was forced to acknowledge the "Fair Use" clause of the US copyright act and loosened the draconian sampling restrictions which had been intimidating the CD stamping plants.

Media Barrier: For their entire 20+ year career, Negativland has expertly manipulated the media barrier and turned it to their advantage when creating their unique brand of art.

No doubt negatyve.

Indie if it is, as you say, an attempt to attack those that would oppose the RIAA it will only lead to more pissed off people expressing themselves. Besides if they do not succeed in trapping people this time around they will only come back meaner and more motivated. So I say bring it on. They want a fight, they got one. The RIAA has already told us they will be relentliss in their fight against piracy. What do we have to loose? I think the majority of us can agree that we do not like the way things are progressing. To me that is;

-prices increasing faster than inflation
-Uncreative mainstream music that sounds more and more alike every year.
-A irrational, unjustified, and untested copyright system.
-Continous and blaitent extortion of our markets, society, and way of life.

Am I concerned about being sued.... No

How is uploading this even piracy, legally? This work certainly isn't one of theirs. I think that when EMI brings these webmasters to trial, it'll be one interesting trial.

Pretty cool group.

http://negativland.com/intprop.html

They have an entire section for IP. Maybe we should introduce our selves....

Tell Don Joyce that leflaw said hi.

all hail downhill battle.org

If you download Bittersweet Symphony, which had an illegal sample and got its creator sued like this album has, the rolling stones' company won't sue you, the Verve's will. Then wouldn't Danger Mouse himself have to sue, if anyone?

EMI = Egg-sucking Motherfucking Idiots

Need I say more?

Erroneous Malevolent Ignus Fatuus. Yeah I know there is no F, but the ignus fatuus fits so nicely....

compmore: Date: February 24, 2004 @ 12:05 PM... Code you should post the actual cease and disist order EMI sent.

check code's post at http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/10564

negativland.com does look pretty cool doesn't it purfus

From the number and the type of sites participating in this, I can see why EMI and thereby, the RIAA have a problem.
I was unaware of how much support our general cause has gained in the past year or so. It really does my heart good! Let's pray that the resulting Grey Album lawsuits somehow fail, and even if the RIAA wins, it only enrages that much more of the public against them. Maybe sacrificing downhillbattle.org and all the other sites involved, if that's what happens, will be a good thing in the end.

I am gonna try to take a positive outlook on all this even tho I smelled a rat from the moment I first heard about it all.

YOU GUYS STICK TOGETHER! Your strength will be in numbers, and we will root for ya!

(I just wish it didn't take a major label artist's work to get this kind of attention to our issues...)

Shmoo, of Electric Gypsy

axxis and purfus.... dont forget to Capitol it.

Finished my article. I crapped out at the end, but the last issue isn't in dyer need of any special attention. Every candidate. Every issue that is or should be important to us. Quotes, as well as my own findings from now and in the past. An explanation on why each issue is important. Links for more information.

Code, if you read this, I'll submit it and I hope you can make the following changes to it:
Issue = Red Text
Candidate = Blue Text
Double space between each issue. Double space between first section and first issue, and last issue and last section.

Have to make sure it's done up nicely...

purfus, it was a book called unsafe at any speed about a little car called the corvair which is now a fugitive from the junk yard !!! Had a spider back in them days, remember them ??? 10/4 flbgbt

That's the one. And yeah I remember that work of art. Well I think we defently need people who are willing to stand up to big corps.

i partcipated in the protest, and hosted the site on my own as well as turned it grey for the day.

http://www.freethinkersmovement.com/cathartic/thoughts.htm is the link to my full thoughts on the subject, because it is too long to post here, but in a large nutshell, the point of the protest is not whether the album in question is a good one or not. That is always subjective.

The argument is that unless copyright law is changed or adapted to the current intellectual property era, artists who use sampling and related methods to create music will not be able to create art in any legal fashion. since there is no cap on the amount you can charge (like compulsory licenses), EMI, in this case, could have charged Danger Mouse any millions of dollars if they chose to. An underground artist could never afford that, and even some major labor artists could not afford that.

Then, EMI also has the right to deny access to music they did not create nor in anyway participate in. In this case, judging by their decision to erase rather than ACQUIRE a potential cash crop (the album spread like wildfire after positive reviews in the New Yorker and Rolling Stone), you can infer that they would not have let Danger Mouse use the samples in any case.

Jay-Z nor the surviving Beatles have not commented on the issue to my knowledge, but her is an interesting anecdote with John Lennon which i feel is relevant...

"John and Paul flew to New York City two years ago to introduce Apple to the press.
John in reply to a question of what is Apple: "It's a business concern, records, films,
and electronics, and as a sideline, manufacturing, or whatever it's called. We want to
set up a system whereby people who just want to make a film about anything don't
have to go on their knees in somebody's office." [...] Described as "a new concept
in business organizations," the establishment of Apple was intented "to give other
artists much wider creative latitude than they have ever enjoyed in the past."

taken from InstantKarma.com

Jay-Z hasn't said anything because he doesn't feel he needs to weigh in when he's made an a capella version of Black Album so that people could remix it.

But I would like to hear Paul's, Ringo's, and Jay-Z's thoughts on it...

undeath...all I see from you is a CD settlement piece...I just got online...send away

I'll send it in real soon... gotta type it up... maybe 15 minutes?

cool...no rush

Damn... it'll take me longer. I thought it was only 2 pages. It's 3 full pages front and back. Maybe another 30 minutes to an hour... I should've done it last night.

no problem Chris...I've got some things I need to do...will check back later...better to do it right than fast

That's damn right... I just found some HUGE mistakes and holes in my article. Broken quotes, no links at the end of the article, jumbled words, I need to space out paragraphs... a big mess...

ThisCatharti...

That is pretty cool. I certainly do not see apple as anything near that he described it.

Just remember to spellcheck (I would be happy to read/edit).

No problem with spelling... I was stupid after 13 hours and didn't notice how I left out sentences, rambled, and didn't do a whole bunch of other stuff. I have to eat my eggs and then get back to writing it again.

Hey Code, got a Constitutional Amendment for you to try and get passed when you win the White House. Ready for it:

Congress shall pass no laws.

Now, back on topic. Grey Tuesday made some sort of impact. I had a Reuter's article in my mailbox this morning that was forewarded to me. They were talking a little bit about it on the Kerry RIAA forum which is still going strong (ain't been booted yet). Someone mentioned that they saw a story about it on MTV and Wired.

Thats me, undeath, gothic-angel and others keeping the RIAA thread alive in the Kerry Forum.

I'm making it a mission to keep that thread alive and start questioning Kerry.

Thats me, undeath, gothic-angel and others keeping the RIAA thread alive in the Kerry Forum.

I'm making it a mission to keep that thread alive and make people start questioning Kerry's support of such evil doom-ness.

Ditto to Cantido. We have to keep that thread alive at all cost, except selling out.

Cantido, have you been watching the bottom of the screen. They list who all is in the forum at any given refresh time. I've seen hundreds of people popping in for a while and reading. Just wish they would post something. But as long as we keep the thread clean of language and flaming we're making an impact.

That would be a good Call to Action: Everybody go out, find a site that has nothing to do with the Copyright War, start a thread, report back here about where it's at, then we blitz them with info.

You'll never see a post from me on that site under that name again... they don't seem to like me very much...

By the way, I don't think Cantido's post needed a ditto... hehe.

We were just talking over there about a list of RIAA wrongs that we could hammer out and send out to various groups and politicians. I want to move that discussion over here though so that we can have all our big brains working on it too.

I'm hesitant about mentioning Boycott there. I think that is what is getting people banned.

I fully agree with you Gothic-Angel. You going to start one in the Boycott-RIAA forums?

I'm going to check right after I click post.

I forgot to add. If you are concerned about spell, just type what you want into a word processor and run the spell check. If you do not have one for some really odd reason, then any words you are not sure about just run them through http://dictionary.com I abuse that site a lot, but not as often as I should. Or heck, just do it the old fashioned way of picking up a dictionary.

Once I figure out how to start a forum here. Not to bright at the moment.

Go to the top of this page. Run your pointer over the forum part of the menu. Click on Boycott. Go to whatever section the thread belongs in. Go to the bottom and fill out the text boxes. You'll have a thread in no time.

I started a religion thread in the General Forum for you G-angel.

Thank you Carla. I figured it out. The list is in the Action Ideas forum. I posted one point already and will go back a little later.

Duh, it just dawned on my why this page had a grey border yesterday.

I'm glad boycott-riaa supported Grey Tuesday.

Oh, I didn't realize that's what it was. I liked it like that. It seemed to hold in the page so it didn't look too wide.

Okay, I'm starting to type this up now. I'll use Microsoft WordPerfect 10, then copy and paste it in Notepad to save on my computer.

I thought the page looked different yesterday. Shows my attention for detail.

Er... Corel word perfect.... Microsoft doesn't make everything....

Also I don't know why kerry is banning ppl. Well I could venture a guess but we wont go there. I changed my name, and I posted in a few other spots before I went to the RIAA thread. So they probably do not think I am only there for one thing. Not really too big of a surprise to see that they are regulating thought on a democrat forum. Before anyone says it, I would expect the same from a republican forum....

I have made some off handed comments about the strict policies at the kerry forum that make the policies seem pretty heavy handed and as of yet I have not been censored. I keep pushing the margin tho....

I got confused. It's Windows, and since they own the word 'word' and own the word 'windows', I don't know what to think anymore. Besides, it's my first time using it for other than studying the dictionary for Scrabble.

got my grey album. nice artwork too =)

Hehe, understandable....

Grey Tuesday: A Quick Overview of the Legal Terrain
Note: This is not legal advice. Consult with an attorney with respect to your own circumstances before acting on this, or anything else you read on the Internet.

So, the Grey Album and the Grey Tuesday protest have been extensively chronicled. This page is intended to explain some of the basic copyright law principles involved.

Background
First, it's important to understand that there are at least 4, and maybe 5, "rights-holders" potentially involved:

Owners of the rights to the sound recording ("master") for the Beatles' White Album. That's EMI.
Owners of the rights to the musical works (songs or "compositions") that appear on the Beatles' White Album. For the Lennon and McCartney songs, that appears to be Sony Music/ATV Publishing, a joint venture between Michael Jackson and Sony. It's unclear who owns the rights to the George Harrison songs.
Owners of the rights to the sound recording for Jay-Z's Black Album.
Owners of the rights to the musical works that appear on Jay-Z's Black Album.
And, possibly, the owner of the rights to the Grey Album (presumably DJ Danger Mouse).
As of February 24, 2004, only EMI has sent cease and desist letters to those who are posting the Grey Album as part of the Grey Tuesday online protest.

Does EMI have a case?
There is no federal copyright protection for sound recordings made before 1972. Because the White Album was released in 1968, it appears that EMI has no federal copyright rights in the sound recording. Some record labels have argued that "digital remastering" creates a new work, protected under federal copyright laws. There don't appear to be any cases supporting this view, however, where a simple transfer to CD is involved.

Because federal copyright law does not protect the sound recording of the White Album, the usual federal copyright law remedies (statutory damages up to $150,000 per work infringed, relaxed standards for preliminary injunctions, attorneys fees) also do not apply.

State laws, however, may protect sound recordings made before 1972. Many states have their own copyright laws or may apply common law doctrines to protect sound recordings from misappropriation. The rights and remedies are likely to vary from state to state.

Are the Grey Tuesday protesters protected by fair use?
Fair use generally refers to the federal copyright law exception contained in Section 107 of the Copyright Act. Because the White Album is not protectible under federal copyright law, fair use is not directly applicable.

State courts, however, are likely to look at federal fair use principles, as well as general principles of "equity" (i.e., fairness) in applying state law doctrines. There are a number of characteristics of the Grey Tuesday protest that would likely weigh in favor of those who post the Grey Album:

the posting of the Grey Album is for a noncommercial purpose;
downloads of the Grey Album do not substitute for purchases of the White Album;
the Grey Album is a transformative use of the White Album, not a wholesale copy; and
the posting of the Grey Album is intended as part of a commentary on the use of copyright law to stymie new kinds of musical creativity.
from eff.org